Thanks for sharing that Turgo install video! Looks like a cool hydro setup. By the way, if you're into outdoor adventures and need reliable power, I highly recommend checking out the Segway Portable PowerStation Cube Series. It's a versatile and robust power station with a 1-5kWh capacity and fast recharging. Perfect for camping and backup power needs. Happy exploring!
Great suggestion! The Segway Portable PowerStation Cube Series sounds like a fantastic option for outdoor enthusiasts like us. With its massive capacity, fast recharging, and waterproof technology, it's perfect for camping trips and emergencies. Plus, the Smart APP Control adds convenience. Thanks for sharing!
He needs a 3 Phase AC Motor instead of DC Motor for that run to his camper to prevent voltage drop. Secondly, he has to change the gear ratio on that wheel to improve the RPM/Speed. Thirdly, to adjust the water drop on the wheel. This is just my opinion and thanks for sharing Seth
as a three-phase motor do you mean permanent magnet alternator? Otherwise the power is too low for a three-phase asynchronous motor self-excited through single-phase capacitors with the c-2C technique, it is used from 700W upwards to be suitable against a good quality non-Cinese permanent magnets, and have a good efficiency, I I recommend it from 850W /1kw upwards, let's say with 1,5hp high efficiency motors with a maximum of 850 / 900W of power that can be taken, under 700W PMA or PMG is the only solution in terms of efficiency.
@@winterburan A Samsung or Whirlpool/Fisher-Paykel washing machine motor used as an alternator would work as long as it was rewired for a lower Voltage. 250 RPM is on the low end of power from one though. 225 would make 113 Watts while 250 RPM would make 155 Watts on a Samsung Cu 36 pole stator in a 3 phase, 4 parallel sets, of 3 coils in series configuration. 250 RPM would output 25VDC and if not rectified would be at 100 Hz. That could be stepped up in a toroidal transformer to a higher Voltage for sending over the wire. Question would be, can it turn it at that load.
@@gravelydon7072 ok permanent magnet motor, when we talk about three-phase motors we usually mean three-phase asynchronous motors, they are also good alternators but above 700 / 800W, a permanent magnet motor used as a permanent magnet generator, certainly better than a modorte DC with brushes, a transformer for these small powers even if toroidal and worked at the excellent frequency of 100Hz would always lose at least 5-8%, the power involved is really ridiculous, better to charge efficient LiFePo4 batteries, the lead ones only reach 70% , even less starting batteries, connect an inverter and start with the cable
Not only does the water trough need to be shortened and lowered, but the paddles of the water wheel need to be angled upward on the water side of the wheel. This way the paddle area would become a small bucket to where the water would let out much closer to the bottom of the wheel, which would even greater improve it's efficiency.
He could add some trim to the lip of the paddles to hold about an inch of water. One gallon of water weighs 8.32 lbs. The water should strike at the top.
1st: Put a dam in the wall niche so the water rises and provides the addition of 1,5ft more drop. Then a smooth transition to the pipe, which should be at an way steeper angle and puts the water 'earlier' into the wheel. Use a smaller diameter tube for less friction. 2nd: the hexagonal wheel brings up unconsistent water delivery => torque. without a spoony upwards shaped cup design a huge amount just splashes off and does nothing. The cups should carry the water from the 12 to about 7 o'clock mark. Sharp edges on the cups instead of the plain 1" thick boards with 2x 90° edges help reducing the splash off. 3rd: a DC motor is totally the wrong system to begin with if have little waterflow and relay on an efficient system to get output at all. So a 3 phase electric rollchair motor with something like a 1:2 or 1:3 ratio via chain or timing belt style. Send the 3 phases to the RV, rectify near the chargecontroller and you could get maybe 30W from that water flow. Not really much but enough to run a 12V compressor type fridge.
Ive seen 90% + Hydro wheels and by what you describe , it sounds just like those , with the cup shape. I think it was a Richard Hammond Video on youtube i was watching , but yeah ... sounds just like your description.
You need a drop shoot, all he has todo is cap the end of the trouft an cut a hole in the end so it drops straight down on the wheel and turns the wheel around, it would be 90%
Agree. This motor is inefficient because my small wind turbine motor gives me 19 V, 1.2Amp @ 120 RPM . Of course water Wheel needs to catch more water ( using pvc instead of wood ) Water doesnt have enough Potential energy( length of the pipe doesnt matter, hight of the pipe is important)
I was wondering the same if he used a washing machine motor. Also it looks like the water wheel needs to cup the water more and needs another piece on each "bucket". Can't wait for the next update.
Is the wheel the right way round.. the water appears to be splashing of the paddles. Instead of being held instead of being held in side the small bucket area.. Shortening the (flume) inlet shoot will also direct more water onto the wheel.. All the water wheels I have seen in England flat flume (shoot) this gives even feed across the wheel which increases efficiency.. I also think he can run a bigger/different generation unit.. . Maybe a washing machine motor. Something out of a small modern Honda type gasoline type genset... It's enjoyable to watch an finding a few gems an ideas for a project I've been looking to build.. thanks again Peter
mate....non-covered shoes, shorts and snakes.....I think all of Australia just panicked at that. Thanks for the video, that's a really cool thing to try.
I’d recommend using a planetary gear box instead of the current arrangement input is on the plant carrier with the ring gear locked in place with output on the sun, with the correct setup, he would get up to four times the speed on the output from the low rpm high torque input. I could design and 3D print a gearbox for you test. On second thought I’d be better off machining one out of nylon instead
Seems to me like a rectangular flume outlet instead of rounded would both slow the water speed and fill the buckets more completely. Agree with comment above to use 3 phase brushless AC. A hoverboard motor is both high watts and low RPM. Should be ideal. Might need to double or triple the diameter of the driving sprockets to get the voltage high enough. Great first attempt though!
The problem is that this wheel is an undershot design being used for overshot. Undershot wheels were designed for mills where the water would flow underneath them, the stream or river would be diverted to push 100% of the water through the wheel when in motion, however the efficiency is only 20%. Consider switching to a pitchback design: these use buckets that fill from a pentrough that has a hole in it, so the buckets fill from the top but the wheel spins backwards and the water that falls out of the buckets is channelled to turn the wheel from the bottom, this uses the water twice and is 80% efficient. An alternative is the breastshot waterwheel, which is considerably larger and is fed from close to the centre of the wheel, it works in a similar way to the pitchback but requires larger buckets for low head.
@@mwpicard For a basic undershot wheel it is, look at Sagebien wheels for high efficiencies. Zuppinger wheels are also efficient, but create unwanted slapping noises at the blade entry.
i would add sides and a curved bottom to it with a lip on the buckets this way once the water enters the bucket the wheel carrys it down and out the back holding onto the water for as long as possible kind of like a backshot wheel setup for reversed to be overshot
Great idea. If you wanted to get even more fancy you could even hinge some buckets to release the water after it gets all the way to the bottom, but just optimising this design will improve things a lot.
No expert on water wheels. I agree with all the posts to install an ac gen instead of a dc gen. I also agree on experimenting with the water line to increase torque. Redesign the gear box for increased speed. Outstanding job on the whole project. If I lived in an area that was near water I would try experimenting too. Go with ac gen remember this was a Tesla/Edison argument years ago.
Wow, I love this video, and I have always loved waterwheels. Thank you for sharing this video, and I am looking forward to watching the update after the changes are made.
Lovely wood work for a diy project, a credit. Unless they will put a battery bank and inverter very close to water wheel and run mains ac voltage to rv then I'd say the same as others. Run an ac generator and rectify as close to rv as possible.
Unfortunately, more garden design than a usable water wheel, an overshot water wheel works with power on the lever arm, which requires water chambers. Without weight there is no torque and without torque there is no power. Just put another board across the front so that some of the water stays in the water wheel a little longer 😅 Thank you and best regards from the upper mill👍✌️✌️
If he was using an alternator instead of a brushed motor you would be able to double the voltage quite easily using two diodes and two (rather big) capacitors. It's a pretty simple circuit, you just need some high current diodes. Still, ideally you'd have the thing spinning a lot faster.
I’m someone who doesn’t really buy into “that won’t work” just because “an expert” says so. I’ve had an idea rolling around in my head for a while. You’d need some drop, not sure how much. But a 500+ gallon tank, with a run of 4” to 3” to 2” pipe down to a turbine, emptying into another tank, that has either, or, or a combination of a ram pump or solar power pump pushing the water from the lower tank to the upper. Now I got this idea from a door shop in our area, who also became a solar supplier for a while. They had a single panel set up with an ag pump that really put out. If you had a continuous feed from a creek, to keep it “topped off”, with a spill off back into the creek, so you’re not wasting water. The main tank would also be the water supply for the house with a sediment and purification filter in between. With the continuous cycling it would keep the algae down. Does any of this sound doable? Would appreciate the feedback.
What are you trying to achieve with this setup? One tank, feeding through a turbine into a lower tank, with a solar pump moving water back up to the top tank - it could work as a battery of sorts, I guess, storing energy from a small solar panel and able to release it quickly. The ram pump idea sounds like it's getting into perpetual motion machine territory, which absolutely 100% do not work under any circumstances, ever, no matter what anyone tries.
I agree that the flume end needs to be lower and cut shorter. Part of the energy to turn the wheel is the kinetic energy & momentum of the water coming off the end of the flume and slamming into the vertical vanes at the top of the wheel.
I am interested in watching this. I built a 6 foot diameter wheel with about 3 gallons per minute flowing over it. It’s mostly for luxe and it does look awesome. Let’s see if we can get some power out of that wheel, I am watching
Where the water drops into the buckets there should be a spout to fill each bucket so that it holds the water until exactly under the the bottom of the wheel where it drops it out and doesn't carry any upwards that would cause drag. so cut 2 - 3 ribs off and put a board that the water would hit and drop down just over center so that gravity can carry it down to the same spot on the bottom. If it had a round circumference I have seen a piece of tin placed follow the curvature of the the bottom 1/4 of the wheel that helps hold the water in the buckets. But it's still a hell of a wheel! He did a nice job, when he redoes it hopefully he'll go down into snakeland and measure his drop and put a bigger wheel in there. It's all about using gravity and holding the water in the bucket until gravity is done. I've only built a couple of water wheels, they are so complicated to build, there's a lot of math involved.
I know squat about water wheels, but as an outsider observing...it seems like the wheel design itself is flawed. The fact that it's octagonal and not circular means the paddles catch the water at different heights and you can even hear it with the way the water splashes are pulsing. Again, not educated on the matter in the slightest, but that's what it seems to me. Seems about only every third paddle (each corner of the wheel) really catches water compared to the rest (the flats of the wheel) making the water's ability to apply torque to be inconsistent. Maybe would be improved anyway by your suggestion of moving the pipe back a bit.
I tried to find a picture of a water-wheel design I saw once here in the UK at my friends old mill wheel. The 'buckets' on the wheel are fixed to the wheel on a pivot that keeps them 'level' until they get past the six o'clock point. This allows more buckets to be full of water at the same time meaning you harness MUCH more power from the wheel. Its hard to explain without a picture but hopefully you get the idea. Maybe someone knows the name of this type of water-wheel as I can't remember!
I saw a similar setup using a car alternator. I think a car alternator might put out a higher voltage. I can't remember the size of the water wheel he used but he used a bicycle wheel the same way to increase the rpm for the alternator. A smaller water wheel might turn faster if it would have enough power.
3 phase ac pmg one of those huge 1/2-1.5 hp ones. He needs more rpm at motor too. A drive wheel almost the size of water wheel to turn motor should work. The wheel can turn a big motor slow 200-500 rpm. Where most micro hydro is meant to spin fast with little motors.
waterwheels with this flows are an ornament, will need hundreds of litres per second to get anything worth charging from. THe best you may get from that flow is some LED's and Electronic charging. With that flow at a 10meter head, sure, then numbers would start being useful, at 40meters head, only need 4litrers per second to get around 600w of charging, thats water jetted through a pelton wheel from memory, Its a beautiful wheel, loads of time had gone into it, i intend to build my own similar, to run storm water through it as a feature.
Ac 3 phase power to house then rectified before charge controller, a boost charge controller may still be necessary, method of water supply will be wiped out in a big rain, needs solid piping
Could I suggest to measure how much Amps we have at the present situation, therefore to get the power ; and with the flow (L/s) we have , we may compare the power we should get versus the present power (usual rate is 90%). The main issue is the velocicy too high (lost of water) , and the entrance too late of the water ( as you suggested : reduce the upper half pipe)
The waterwheel is tuned to the input of the dam. The turbine is better but it uses more water than is coming in, ie, it's unsustainable. Wind power would likely have the same problems, ie, inconsistent wind. The only answer I see is a small diameter pipe driving a turbine located well down the valley, plenty of head pressure and balanced inflow, outflow. Whatayathink?
Thank you for sharing this. That is too cool and I wish I had a creek to try something like this. Maybe it's an optical illusion but it appears the blades do have a slight down angle instead of a slight up angle? is the water wheel wrong way around?
Instead of a overhaul of the trough positioning. A simple V notch weir (after a little fiddlin) would help improve and control the flow rate on the outlet.
I have 2 suggestions. 1. Although I can't see it very well, there appears to be a lot of water escaping from the capture "system; containing that would improve the water yield. That being said, the corrugated tube is slowing the flow of water to the wheel. Simply change it to something that isn't corrugated. 2. On the wheel itself, I would suggest putting making a cup of sorts on each wheel to give the water some extra weight on each paddle to add to the kinetic force of the water hitting the paddles, which is the only thing moving the wheel now. This is in addition to the previous suggestions of other users such as the one for a 3 phase AC generator. Actually, I may have another suggestion, that might require additional "investment": Improve your RPM step-up system as there appears to be enough force from the water to support on additional step-up.
Vi ste mi pomogli jednom, došlo vreme da vratim uslugu, da biste povećali snagu (P) potrebno je povećati prečnik točka (r)i konstrukcija krug zbog efikasnosti, za broj obrtaja (RPM) kaiš preko točka ili veći pogonski lančanik, pozdrav druže.
You need a drop shoot, all he has todo is cap the end of the trouft an cut a hole in the end so it drops straight down on the wheel and turns the wheel around, it would be 90%
Say, keeping wheel & chain gears as is.. I’d mount a small permanent magnet dc motor from a drill or scooter to push current into a 12 volt battery box with a 500 watt ac inverter so voltage doesn’t sag running transmission lines a distance as much low voltage d.c. lines do.. charge home/camper main system off the a.c. wires..
if the voltage from the wheel is lower then that of the battery they will be no drag as current can not flow one would need a voltage booster to make this system work or stepping up the gear ratio a good way to do this would the to cut a groove in the side of the water wheel for a belt to run on then direct to the motor put near the rear so less water hits the motor a hoverboard motoe might be good for this they are 36v 3 phase low rpm
It might be worth making a "dummy load" resistor to work out how much power is being captured - maybe use an old electric fire heating element? Two ways to use it are to measure the voltage drop across the resistor and simultaneously measure the current flowing through it, multiply the volts be the amps, and you get watts - this needs two meters, if you only have one meter, measure the resistance of the element first, then measure the current that flows when it's across the output, power is then the square of the current times the resistance (ignoring heating effects in the element🙁 If you want to check the efficiency, you could measure how much water is flowing (mass per second), and measure the drop, and work out it's kinetic energy if just free-falling over that drop (energy per second =power in watts, so comparing the power available to power collected would give you the efficiency, which would help with tweaking the system)
Can't tell to well. But it looks like that wheel has almost like finns not buckets. It needs to form a bucket to capture and hold that water for more torque. He could then possibly add another stage of geering to really take advantage.
You know I think your right, looks like the wheel is backwards, need to cut the trough a lot shorter so that the water hits the other side and runs the opposite direction.
looks like his scoops are wrong, they should be like buckets, that hold the water and dont dump it the 9 to 8 o clock position imo but ive never tinkered with water wheels
I think he'd do well with an archimede's screw. That or the kind that goes down through a turbine in a pipe. Third a vortex. Not in that order. I sure do like his water wheel though
That wheel isn't really using the weight of the water to turn, it is just the kinetic energy of the water glancing off it causing it to turn. Wheels are are not designed to extract kinetic energy efficiency. The wheel needs to be just smaller in diameter than the drop to get as much of the energy as possible. The buckets need to not dump the water out until nearly at the bottom. For the generator, use a car alternator connected to a small lithium battery (they don't work without a battery for the field coils) Then an inverter up to at least 120V AC, better 220V for the long run to the house. If you don't you will lose it all in line loses. The alternator needs to run at least 1500 rpm. Use toothed belts for lower friction. V-belts will lose 15-20% on each reduction/speed up. The wheel will run very slowly, 10-30rpm, so you will most likely need a couple stages to get the speed up. You could also use a multi rib belt for lower friction than the v-belts, but not as low as toothed. That would be easier as the alternator will already have the pulley. The large pulley side can be a flat pulley. It has enough surface contact it won't slip even though it doesn't have the ribs. I am an engineer and would be happy to help you design a better if you want to contact me. Just fyi, if that flow is 10gal/min, and the drop is 10ft, there is only 18W of power at 100% efficiency, so best case you are going to recover about 10W. Or 0.24KWh per day. Scale that by your actual flow rate to be even closer
looking ta the side of the over shot wheel.. water should enter about 1.30. to 1.0 o/c ok water will push it past 12..o/c and keep going..?? if the buckets were fitted correctly.. they are not .. buckets should hold water all the to way the base.. ie tilt the buckets backwards to hold for longer.. ok.. atb tone uk
I’d like to try a bunyip pump, too. The advantage of a ram pump is they can be made entirely from hardware store parts. A bunyip uses a piston and cylinder which must be matched and sealed with o-rings. The bellows section would also need to be custom made.
well i think there is multiple problems most of what you already mentioned . that treed mill motor ether has to go or he needs a better gearing system . it would be better to change the motor . he needs a low rpm high out put pm motor . your best bet with this set up is to make your own permanent magnet alternator it would produce ac current and lots of it depending on the size of your magnets and your coils of wire . the stronger the magnets the better . but with im going to say 18 gauge wire coils you could use a fairly small rare earth magnets that would do the job . you could set the coils in resin that would keep them dry and safe from moister . again it would be ac current and would have little to no drop off in the line . once at the house or where ever it could be run through a voltage regulator to switch it to dc current to charge a battery bank . its not the set up of the wheel or its drive as much as it is the motor just cant produce the electricity you need . that treed mill motor needs way more rpms to put out any thing worth using . with the drop off of dc current to the house it would be worthless . if you could get it to produce enough there at the wheel to produce power it would have to be converted to ac asap to keep from losing current to the house . your best bet is a home made pm generator. if done right you could have a three phase pm that delivers 1k watts ac of energy constantly . ok thats my opinion on what will work . good luck
im sending a lnk to a video to show you what i mean . it will explain the basics of it at least . check your held for review comments if it dont show up
I'm no expert but it would seem to me you would want to use a more lightweight material so there is less mass for the water to move allowing it to move at a faster speed.
Since it is a wheel, the net weight is zero (or close to it) while turning. (as much going down as there is going up). It will be slower to get up to speed, but once at speed, the actual weight is not relevant
By the way if he were to use 6v batteries the system can work as is. He could also use 3.2 lithium ion batteries... Ofcoz with the correct battery management system or charge controller. The alternative is what most have said here.
Need to add more speed at motor to bring it up to fastest efficiency. Gear box would do it or several more belt drives to increase motor speed. Also bearings will prematurely burn out they dont get hot enough to move grease back into the races. Make an oak bearing using two oak blocks drill a hole in from tip and oul every 3 days. Will last for years
Most brands have a model or two that have them. Whirlpool/Maytag/Fisher-Paykel and Samsung both have Copper wound stators if you get the right models. All of them do better at a speed faster than what the wheel currently is putting out though. At the current speed of 225RPM a Samsung Copper 36 pole wired as 3 phases of 4 parallel sets of 3 coils in series will put out 26VDC at 114Watts. The same unit at 500RPM will put out 383Watts. Doubling the speed triples the output on the low end of their speeds.
@@nicholaskeur I'll have to run a test as I do not remember. You do not get the same number of Watts out at the same RPM unfortunately. You can get nearly double the Watts at the 3 phase 6 coil per phase setup on the 18pole units as you get on the 3 phase 2 parallel sets of 3 coils at 250RPM. My theory is that to get the same output at the same RPM would require that each coil set would need its own rectifier as the magnets and the coils on the stator do no line up all at the same time.
@@nicholaskeur Watts. The magnets have to charge the coils and it seems that they do better at higher output Voltages and also at higher RPM. I did my tests on the 18 pole units and found that the efficiency of the motor generator combinations had a better COE at higher RPM or higher number of coils in series. 62.6% at 500RPM with 3 phases of 6 coils producing 80.3Volts and 179 Watts while 3 phases of 3 sets of two coils produced 40 Volts at 170 Watts and a 59.54% COE at the same RPM. I have to be careful with the 3 x 1 x 6 coil version as if I drive it with the 3x3x2 coil one it can hit 2000 RPM and exceed 300 Volts. The 18 pole units are only designed to run at 300 Volts and 800 RPM so you have a lot of potential for safety problems. The 36 pole units also are designed to run at 300 Volts ( Samsung units ) and 1200 or 1400 RPM. At 1000RPM they can produce 860 Watts.
If the neighbor does need to change the treadmill motor for another motor he could look at a motor for a front load washing machine because it's three phase AC and it may do better than a DC treadmill motor does or he can contact Langston at Langston alternative power and ask if he could make a turbine for the water wheel.
The larger the wheel the more area there is to hold water and that water weight is what creates the torque. At least that's the way I understand it. A smaller wheel would not have the torque to create much power.
My my! 1)For starters to make any informed suggestions it would be nice to know what the information is on that treadmill motor says. If you can read the label it could give some idea what your working with. Guessing is pretty much useless. 2)That said that Generator/motor needs to be turned much faster for starters. 3) If you could add wood to the wheel where it would hold the water better that would be a better for the intended goal it it's ever going to be reached. (Charge an RV, that far away)
its got potential. it in low gear it could spin a much faster in top gear & yes he Need to catchier more water on the top of the water wheel & hold it there for much longer he could put lips sloping lips on the front of the paddles. increasing the water & holding more of the water longer & to spill out at the bottom. of the wheel. it's the fall that count's. as the increace Tark water increases speed it reduces dregs . water flowing over a wheel if far better to flowing Hounded the wheal . Hight X flout' size X volume of water catcher & retained + torque water at the top & holding until it reaches the bottom in gallons is the key. this Enables Gearing to be. grater speeds. that spot could charge 400 wats of power ,
I dont think its getting 220 RPM. If you look at how slow the wheel is going. If you were to make a mark at the top and watch it do a complete revolution it would take alot longer than 1 second. 60 seconds in a minute. No way thats doing 2+ revolutions a second. I think if the wheel itself had reservoirs built into the rudders it would hold water adding weight which will add speed. Also if he didnt use a culvert pipe and used a PVC water pipe there wouldnt be asmuch speed lossage due to the rigid dips and nooks in the culvert pipe. Id leave the pipe intact too. Why cut it in half? keep the debris out easier. I also think you are right. If it was pulled back about a foot and had a steeper grade it would add more speed aswell.
In my view, the use of a motor here is a mistake as the voltage drop from wheel to the point of use (RV) is too great. Because there is less voltage drop in AC. he would be better off turning an alternator with the bridge removed, running the AC up to a bridge located at the RV, and then into the charge controller. If he wants to stick with the motor, he could use an inverter at the wheel and ship AC up the hill much more safely and efficiently.
Drop the pipe until 3 in off the wheel move the wheel for word until end of pipe is right and centre of it should at between thirty-five to forty percent more spin to the
What he has is a Swiss water wheel. Ultimately it works more like a pelican wheel. But no enclosed pipe and faucet nozzle. The idea situation for what he has is high fast flow moving stream of water shooting through a flume from the top of the mountain. A harnessed waterfall. Working with that type of water will his first problem is he doesn't have the Links of Rush he needs. To fix this. 1 I don't think he is corrugated pipe and then ripples and the corrugated pipe is to his benefit he needs a smooth pipe. 2. He probably needs to move the water wheel away and lower from the levee. Drop is important.. 3 the water needs to hit the wheel somewhere at the 11:00 to 12:00 position. Ultimately water hitting directly on the back side of the panel. This is the proper way the Swiss ran their mountain water wheels which is what he has made. Should you make these improvements .. I don't think he has the efficient gushing water No I do not think that you should make the authorizations.. you should make it more of a leverage concept water wheel. And add the skirts on the side and more importantly placing a board inside each bucket to hold back the water from falling out so quickly. This would employ leverage The leverage will produce torque especially when friction from the electric unit provides resistance as it provides resistance the buckets will fall to their Max. Increasing torque because there's more weight on the wheel.. now you get to see the letter below my frustrations and just looking at what is done. I will say that the woodworker that made the wheel did a good job constructing what he has constructed. Certainly it shows craftsmanship.
I'm amazed how bad this wheel is, it's a known design, that already has been perfected hundreds of years ago in Europa.. .. so if one just did some research it's not rocket science building an efficient water wheel ... but I'm still: why even make a huge water wheel? when turbines exists?
Seth, here is a water wheel video ( ruclips.net/video/17CpJxlwzNg/видео.html ) which shows "exactly" the points that both you and others have mentioned. It is a smaller design than what you show but it shows just how the paddles need to be positioned as well as where the water should hit the wheel for best output.
WHY IS IT THAT WHEN YOU GUYS BUILD A WATER WHEEL. YOU GET YOUR PLANS FROM THE GARDEN CENTER. . WHY DON'T YOU BUILD YOURSELF AN INDUSTRIAL WHEEL.. YOU TRYING TO MAKE ELECTRICITY WITH SOMETHING THAT'S JUST SUPPOSED TO LOOK PRETTY. IF YOU LOOK AT A GOOD BUCKET ONLY WATER WHEEL AT 90°, IT LOOKS LIKE THE LETTER G. YOU'RE TRYING TO KEEP WATER ON THE WHEEL AND IT FALLS AT THE VERY BOTTOM UPON UPRISING. THE IDEA IS LEVERAGE LEVERAGE INCREASING UNDER TORQUE. YOUR FLUME CONCEPT IS POOR YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO HAVE WATER BACKED UP INTO THE FLUME AND POURING DIRECTLY DOWN ONTO THE BUCKETS. PREFERABLY AT POSITION 1:00 LOOKING YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO HAVE RUNNING SIDEBOARDS SO THAT THE OVERFLOW WATER WILL FLOW INTO THE NEXT BUCKET. .. YES THERE ARE QUITE A FEW DIFFERENT TYPES OF WATER WHEELS. I AM FRUSTRATED THAT YOU GUYS DO NOT DO THE RESEARCH AND PICK YOURSELF OUT A GOOD ONE FOR ELECTRICITY..
Totally agree, a little bit of research shows that waterwheels are mature technology and the design is well understood AND DOCUMENTED in libraries to be copied for efficient, powerful wheels.
Why would the wheel slow down guy? Volts would just drop. And the water falling farther is better, that's where the power comes from. Higher fall, more power
If u know gearing u want biggest gear on wheel same size as wheel then smallest gear u can use for it smaller gear spins ten times one spin vs 1 spin per wheel with two smaller gears u want a giant gear same size as wheel only way it works and smallest gear on generator best thing is bike gears cut em screw em to other edge of wheel cut bike gear in 4 spots 3 screw holes peace metal over it add more teeth over time bigger gear trust me smaller gear on motor has to be dc and best way chop up bike gears for free space em out cheaper plus wood gear right thick asf put metal braces size lil bit smaller then wheel but bigger better then add cut chain brackets to make bigger wheel gear
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Enjoy micro hydro? Check out this Turgo install:
ruclips.net/video/Flz4_OE4CGI/видео.html
The ribs are also drastically slowing the water flow if it was a smooth type you would get more velocity
Thanks for sharing that Turgo install video! Looks like a cool hydro setup. By the way, if you're into outdoor adventures and need reliable power, I highly recommend checking out the Segway Portable PowerStation Cube Series. It's a versatile and robust power station with a 1-5kWh capacity and fast recharging. Perfect for camping and backup power needs. Happy exploring!
Great suggestion! The Segway Portable PowerStation Cube Series sounds like a fantastic option for outdoor enthusiasts like us. With its massive capacity, fast recharging, and waterproof technology, it's perfect for camping trips and emergencies. Plus, the Smart APP Control adds convenience. Thanks for sharing!
He needs a 3 Phase AC Motor instead of DC Motor for that run to his camper to prevent voltage drop.
Secondly, he has to change the gear ratio on that wheel to improve the RPM/Speed.
Thirdly, to adjust the water drop on the wheel.
This is just my opinion and thanks for sharing Seth
as a three-phase motor do you mean permanent magnet alternator? Otherwise the power is too low for a three-phase asynchronous motor self-excited through single-phase capacitors with the c-2C technique, it is used from 700W upwards to be suitable against a good quality non-Cinese permanent magnets, and have a good efficiency, I I recommend it from 850W /1kw upwards, let's say with 1,5hp high efficiency motors with a maximum of 850 / 900W of power that can be taken, under 700W PMA or PMG is the only solution in terms of efficiency.
@@winterburan A Samsung or Whirlpool/Fisher-Paykel washing machine motor used as an alternator would work as long as it was rewired for a lower Voltage. 250 RPM is on the low end of power from one though. 225 would make 113 Watts while 250 RPM would make 155 Watts on a Samsung Cu 36 pole stator in a 3 phase, 4 parallel sets, of 3 coils in series configuration. 250 RPM would output 25VDC and if not rectified would be at 100 Hz. That could be stepped up in a toroidal transformer to a higher Voltage for sending over the wire. Question would be, can it turn it at that load.
@@gravelydon7072 ok permanent magnet motor, when we talk about three-phase motors we usually mean three-phase asynchronous motors, they are also good alternators but above 700 / 800W, a permanent magnet motor used as a permanent magnet generator, certainly better than a modorte DC with brushes, a transformer for these small powers even if toroidal and worked at the excellent frequency of 100Hz would always lose at least 5-8%, the power involved is really ridiculous, better to charge efficient LiFePo4 batteries, the lead ones only reach 70% , even less starting batteries, connect an inverter and start with the cable
Not only does the water trough need to be shortened and lowered, but the paddles of the water wheel need to be angled upward on the water side of the wheel. This way the paddle area would become a small bucket to where the water would let out much closer to the bottom of the wheel, which would even greater improve it's efficiency.
I agree. It needs to hold the water better.
Cutting the flume back one or two rib sections would help for sure.
He could add some trim to the lip of the paddles to hold about an inch of water. One gallon of water weighs 8.32 lbs. The water should strike at the top.
1st: Put a dam in the wall niche so the water rises and provides the addition of 1,5ft more drop. Then a smooth transition to the pipe, which should be at an way steeper angle and puts the water 'earlier' into the wheel. Use a smaller diameter tube for less friction.
2nd: the hexagonal wheel brings up unconsistent water delivery => torque. without a spoony upwards shaped cup design a huge amount just splashes off and does nothing. The cups should carry the water from the 12 to about 7 o'clock mark. Sharp edges on the cups instead of the plain 1" thick boards with 2x 90° edges help reducing the splash off.
3rd: a DC motor is totally the wrong system to begin with if have little waterflow and relay on an efficient system to get output at all.
So a 3 phase electric rollchair motor with something like a 1:2 or 1:3 ratio via chain or timing belt style.
Send the 3 phases to the RV, rectify near the chargecontroller and you could get maybe 30W from that water flow. Not really much but enough to run a 12V compressor type fridge.
Ive seen 90% + Hydro wheels and by what you describe , it sounds just like those , with the cup shape. I think it was a Richard Hammond Video on youtube i was watching , but yeah ... sounds just like your description.
You need a drop shoot, all he has todo is cap the end of the trouft an cut a hole in the end so it drops straight down on the wheel and turns the wheel around, it would be 90%
Agree. This motor is inefficient because my small wind turbine motor gives me 19 V, 1.2Amp @ 120 RPM .
Of course water Wheel needs to catch more water ( using pvc instead of wood )
Water doesnt have enough Potential energy( length of the pipe doesnt matter, hight of the pipe is important)
I was wondering the same if he used a washing machine motor. Also it looks like the water wheel needs to cup the water more and needs another piece on each "bucket". Can't wait for the next update.
Is the wheel the right way round.. the water appears to be splashing of the paddles. Instead of being held instead of being held in side the small bucket area..
Shortening the (flume) inlet shoot will also direct more water onto the wheel..
All the water wheels I have seen in England flat flume (shoot) this gives even feed across the wheel which increases efficiency..
I also think he can run a bigger/different generation unit.. . Maybe a washing machine motor. Something out of a small modern Honda type gasoline type genset...
It's enjoyable to watch an finding a few gems an ideas for a project I've been looking to build.. thanks again Peter
Good evening gentleman, thanks you for sharing it with us, note : there is a voltage drop of one volt per every hundred feet of wire.
mate....non-covered shoes, shorts and snakes.....I think all of Australia just panicked at that. Thanks for the video, that's a really cool thing to try.
I’d recommend using a planetary gear box instead of the current arrangement input is on the plant carrier with the ring gear locked in place with output on the sun, with the correct setup, he would get up to four times the speed on the output from the low rpm high torque input. I could design and 3D print a gearbox for you test. On second thought I’d be better off machining one out of nylon instead
Seems to me like a rectangular flume outlet instead of rounded would both slow the water speed and fill the buckets more completely. Agree with comment above to use 3 phase brushless AC. A hoverboard motor is both high watts and low RPM. Should be ideal. Might need to double or triple the diameter of the driving sprockets to get the voltage high enough. Great first attempt though!
Count me interested to see how this evolves and improves! 😁
Lots of improvements needed. Thank you for the tour Seth !
I think you're all on the right track with wanting to trim the trough back a bit so that water spends more time in the wheel.
The problem is that this wheel is an undershot design being used for overshot. Undershot wheels were designed for mills where the water would flow underneath them, the stream or river would be diverted to push 100% of the water through the wheel when in motion, however the efficiency is only 20%. Consider switching to a pitchback design: these use buckets that fill from a pentrough that has a hole in it, so the buckets fill from the top but the wheel spins backwards and the water that falls out of the buckets is channelled to turn the wheel from the bottom, this uses the water twice and is 80% efficient. An alternative is the breastshot waterwheel, which is considerably larger and is fed from close to the centre of the wheel, it works in a similar way to the pitchback but requires larger buckets for low head.
@fyremoon. why do you say that the efficiency of an undershot wheel is only 20%. That is not a general rule is it?
@@mwpicard For a basic undershot wheel it is, look at Sagebien wheels for high efficiencies. Zuppinger wheels are also efficient, but create unwanted slapping noises at the blade entry.
i would add sides and a curved bottom to it with a lip on the buckets this way once the water enters the bucket the wheel carrys it down and out the back holding onto the water for as long as possible kind of like a backshot wheel setup for reversed to be overshot
Great idea. If you wanted to get even more fancy you could even hinge some buckets to release the water after it gets all the way to the bottom, but just optimising this design will improve things a lot.
@@ThisRandomUsername i had the thoght of rubber flaps
@@ThisRandomUsername i think the motor been used is one of the big things letting it down
No expert on water wheels. I agree with all the posts to install an ac gen instead of a dc gen. I also agree on experimenting with the water line to increase torque. Redesign the gear box for increased speed. Outstanding job on the whole project. If I lived in an area that was near water I would try experimenting too. Go with ac gen remember this was a Tesla/Edison argument years ago.
Wow, I love this video, and I have always loved waterwheels. Thank you for sharing this video, and I am looking forward to watching the update after the changes are made.
Lovely wood work for a diy project, a credit. Unless they will put a battery bank and inverter very close to water wheel and run mains ac voltage to rv then I'd say the same as others. Run an ac generator and rectify as close to rv as possible.
Unfortunately, more garden design than a usable water wheel, an overshot water wheel works with power on the lever arm, which requires water chambers. Without weight there is no torque and without torque there is no power. Just put another board across the front so that some of the water stays in the water wheel a little longer 😅 Thank you and best regards from the upper mill👍✌️✌️
If he was using an alternator instead of a brushed motor you would be able to double the voltage quite easily using two diodes and two (rather big) capacitors. It's a pretty simple circuit, you just need some high current diodes. Still, ideally you'd have the thing spinning a lot faster.
A rewired alternator is probably the best bet here. Possibly adding some scoop extenders and getting that water into the wheel properly.
I’m someone who doesn’t really buy into “that won’t work” just because “an expert” says so. I’ve had an idea rolling around in my head for a while. You’d need some drop, not sure how much. But a 500+ gallon tank, with a run of 4” to 3” to 2” pipe down to a turbine, emptying into another tank, that has either, or, or a combination of a ram pump or solar power pump pushing the water from the lower tank to the upper. Now I got this idea from a door shop in our area, who also became a solar supplier for a while. They had a single panel set up with an ag pump that really put out. If you had a continuous feed from a creek, to keep it “topped off”, with a spill off back into the creek, so you’re not wasting water. The main tank would also be the water supply for the house with a sediment and purification filter in between. With the continuous cycling it would keep the algae down. Does any of this sound doable? Would appreciate the feedback.
What are you trying to achieve with this setup? One tank, feeding through a turbine into a lower tank, with a solar pump moving water back up to the top tank - it could work as a battery of sorts, I guess, storing energy from a small solar panel and able to release it quickly. The ram pump idea sounds like it's getting into perpetual motion machine territory, which absolutely 100% do not work under any circumstances, ever, no matter what anyone tries.
His setup is good but he should try to get a bit more water hitting the wheel as well and that would boost his power as well
Mrr Seth
All the best to yr new experiments
I agree that the flume end needs to be lower and cut shorter. Part of the energy to turn the wheel is the kinetic energy & momentum of the water coming off the end of the flume and slamming into the vertical vanes at the top of the wheel.
I am interested in watching this. I built a 6 foot diameter wheel with about 3 gallons per minute flowing over it. It’s mostly for luxe and it does look awesome. Let’s see if we can get some power out of that wheel, I am watching
Where the water drops into the buckets there should be a spout to fill each bucket so that it holds the water until exactly under the the bottom of the wheel where it drops it out and doesn't carry any upwards that would cause drag. so cut 2 - 3 ribs off and put a board that the water would hit and drop down just over center so that gravity can carry it down to the same spot on the bottom. If it had a round circumference I have seen a piece of tin placed follow the curvature of the the bottom 1/4 of the wheel that helps hold the water in the buckets. But it's still a hell of a wheel! He did a nice job, when he redoes it hopefully he'll go down into snakeland and measure his drop and put a bigger wheel in there. It's all about using gravity and holding the water in the bucket until gravity is done. I've only built a couple of water wheels, they are so complicated to build, there's a lot of math involved.
I know squat about water wheels, but as an outsider observing...it seems like the wheel design itself is flawed. The fact that it's octagonal and not circular means the paddles catch the water at different heights and you can even hear it with the way the water splashes are pulsing. Again, not educated on the matter in the slightest, but that's what it seems to me. Seems about only every third paddle (each corner of the wheel) really catches water compared to the rest (the flats of the wheel) making the water's ability to apply torque to be inconsistent. Maybe would be improved anyway by your suggestion of moving the pipe back a bit.
I tried to find a picture of a water-wheel design I saw once here in the UK at my friends old mill wheel. The 'buckets' on the wheel are fixed to the wheel on a pivot that keeps them 'level' until they get past the six o'clock point. This allows more buckets to be full of water at the same time meaning you harness MUCH more power from the wheel. Its hard to explain without a picture but hopefully you get the idea. Maybe someone knows the name of this type of water-wheel as I can't remember!
I saw a similar setup using a car alternator. I think a car alternator might put out a higher voltage. I can't remember the size of the water wheel he used but he used a bicycle wheel the same way to increase the rpm for the alternator. A smaller water wheel might turn faster if it would have enough power.
You are right that wheel 🛞 should spin quicker with the bigger gear on the water wheel and smaller towards the generator which would get faster rpms
3 phase ac pmg one of those huge 1/2-1.5 hp ones. He needs more rpm at motor too. A drive wheel almost the size of water wheel to turn motor should work. The wheel can turn a big motor slow 200-500 rpm. Where most micro hydro is meant to spin fast with little motors.
Seems like leaving trough as is until heavy rain would be a good test to see if massive flow overshoot the wheel to avoid destruction
I will be making an update video after hurricane Fred. Let's just say some damage has occurred...
About all i know is the over shot water wheel is the most efficient, so theres at least that going for you
waterwheels with this flows are an ornament, will need hundreds of litres per second to get anything worth charging from. THe best you may get from that flow is some LED's and Electronic charging. With that flow at a 10meter head, sure, then numbers would start being useful, at 40meters head, only need 4litrers per second to get around 600w of charging, thats water jetted through a pelton wheel from memory, Its a beautiful wheel, loads of time had gone into it, i intend to build my own similar, to run storm water through it as a feature.
Ac 3 phase power to house then rectified before charge controller, a boost charge controller may still be necessary, method of water supply will be wiped out in a big rain, needs solid piping
Could I suggest to measure how much Amps we have at the present situation, therefore to get the power ; and with the flow (L/s) we have , we may compare the power we should get versus the present power (usual rate is 90%). The main issue is the velocicy too high (lost of water) , and the entrance too late of the water ( as you suggested : reduce the upper half pipe)
The waterwheel is tuned to the input of the dam. The turbine is better but it uses more water than is coming in, ie, it's unsustainable. Wind power would likely have the same problems, ie, inconsistent wind. The only answer I see is a small diameter pipe driving a turbine located well down the valley, plenty of head pressure and balanced inflow, outflow. Whatayathink?
Thank you for sharing this. That is too cool and I wish I had a creek to try something like this. Maybe it's an optical illusion but it appears the blades do have a slight down angle instead of a slight up angle? is the water wheel wrong way around?
Instead of a overhaul of the trough positioning. A simple V notch weir (after a little fiddlin) would help improve and control the flow rate on the outlet.
I have 2 suggestions. 1. Although I can't see it very well, there appears to be a lot of water escaping from the capture "system; containing that would improve the water yield. That being said, the corrugated tube is slowing the flow of water to the wheel. Simply change it to something that isn't corrugated. 2. On the wheel itself, I would suggest putting making a cup of sorts on each wheel to give the water some extra weight on each paddle to add to the kinetic force of the water hitting the paddles, which is the only thing moving the wheel now. This is in addition to the previous suggestions of other users such as the one for a 3 phase AC generator. Actually, I may have another suggestion, that might require additional "investment": Improve your RPM step-up system as there appears to be enough force from the water to support on additional step-up.
Vi ste mi pomogli jednom, došlo vreme da vratim uslugu, da biste povećali snagu (P) potrebno je povećati prečnik točka (r)i konstrukcija krug zbog efikasnosti, za broj obrtaja (RPM) kaiš preko točka ili veći pogonski lančanik, pozdrav druže.
You need a drop shoot, all he has todo is cap the end of the trouft an cut a hole in the end so it drops straight down on the wheel and turns the wheel around, it would be 90%
Say, keeping wheel & chain gears as is.. I’d mount a small permanent magnet dc motor from a drill or scooter to push current into a 12 volt battery box with a 500 watt ac inverter so voltage doesn’t sag running transmission lines a distance as much low voltage d.c. lines do.. charge home/camper main system off the a.c. wires..
if the voltage from the wheel is lower then that of the battery they will be no drag as current can not flow one would need a voltage booster to make this system work or stepping up the gear ratio a good way to do this would the to cut a groove in the side of the water wheel for a belt to run on then direct to the motor put near the rear so less water hits the motor a hoverboard motoe might be good for this they are 36v 3 phase low rpm
the rubber of the overboard could be in direct contact with the periphery of the wooden wheel
@@udos46 if the wheel was rounder yes I have a plan to use 2 as the axle and many over tests just dont have a place to test ideas
@@udos46 if one had 4 of the hoverboard motors they could be used for the wheel to roll on
It might be worth making a "dummy load" resistor to work out how much power is being captured - maybe use an old electric fire heating element? Two ways to use it are to measure the voltage drop across the resistor and simultaneously measure the current flowing through it, multiply the volts be the amps, and you get watts - this needs two meters, if you only have one meter, measure the resistance of the element first, then measure the current that flows when it's across the output, power is then the square of the current times the resistance (ignoring heating effects in the element🙁
If you want to check the efficiency, you could measure how much water is flowing (mass per second), and measure the drop, and work out it's kinetic energy if just free-falling over that drop (energy per second =power in watts, so comparing the power available to power collected would give you the efficiency, which would help with tweaking the system)
Can't tell to well. But it looks like that wheel has almost like finns not buckets. It needs to form a bucket to capture and hold that water for more torque. He could then possibly add another stage of geering to really take advantage.
You know I think your right, looks like the wheel is backwards, need to cut the trough a lot shorter so that the water hits the other side and runs the opposite direction.
The water wheel need to turn towards the dam so that the buckets can get full.
Seems to it would be better to run into pipe. Reduce to increase pressure. Use a pool pump impeller to drive a motor.
Interesting.
That rpm meter came with some reflective tape for better readings.
This has been a project he has wanted to do for a long time. I'm not sure if he'll get tons of power out of it but hes having fun.
I want to know more. Thanks.
The weight of the water wheel might be a big factor. If it was lighter, more rpms
looks like his scoops are wrong, they should be like buckets, that hold the water and dont dump it the 9 to 8 o clock position imo but ive never tinkered with water wheels
Yeah it kind of looks like its the wrong way, he should try turning the wheel around the other way.
I think he'd do well with an archimede's screw. That or the kind that goes down through a turbine in a pipe. Third a vortex. Not in that order.
I sure do like his water wheel though
I really like your videos, long-lasting interaction registration👍👍💝💝
That wheel isn't really using the weight of the water to turn, it is just the kinetic energy of the water glancing off it causing it to turn. Wheels are are not designed to extract kinetic energy efficiency.
The wheel needs to be just smaller in diameter than the drop to get as much of the energy as possible. The buckets need to not dump the water out until nearly at the bottom.
For the generator, use a car alternator connected to a small lithium battery (they don't work without a battery for the field coils) Then an inverter up to at least 120V AC, better 220V for the long run to the house. If you don't you will lose it all in line loses. The alternator needs to run at least 1500 rpm. Use toothed belts for lower friction. V-belts will lose 15-20% on each reduction/speed up. The wheel will run very slowly, 10-30rpm, so you will most likely need a couple stages to get the speed up.
You could also use a multi rib belt for lower friction than the v-belts, but not as low as toothed. That would be easier as the alternator will already have the pulley. The large pulley side can be a flat pulley. It has enough surface contact it won't slip even though it doesn't have the ribs.
I am an engineer and would be happy to help you design a better if you want to contact me.
Just fyi, if that flow is 10gal/min, and the drop is 10ft, there is only 18W of power at 100% efficiency, so best case you are going to recover about 10W. Or 0.24KWh per day. Scale that by your actual flow rate to be even closer
looking ta the side of the over shot wheel.. water should enter about 1.30. to 1.0 o/c ok water will push it past 12..o/c and keep going..?? if the buckets were fitted correctly.. they are not .. buckets should hold water all the to way the base.. ie tilt the buckets backwards to hold for longer.. ok.. atb tone uk
How difficult is it to have a site that can generate 1.5 kW consistently? Would it be beneficial if you can sell that generated energy consistently?
Hey Seth, you should try another pump called Bunyip pupm which works the same way as a ram pump but has a different build.
Isn't that the one that has the tire? I would like to try that.
@@LandtoHouse yeah, that's powerful.
I’d like to try a bunyip pump, too. The advantage of a ram pump is they can be made entirely from hardware store parts. A bunyip uses a piston and cylinder which must be matched and sealed with o-rings. The bellows section would also need to be custom made.
Way too low RPM currently. Most treadmills motors are in the thousands of RPMs. Will be curious to see how this goes.
After a flood he has decided to make it ornamental.
@@LandtoHouse, that's a shame. I am sure it could of worked with some modification. At any rate thank you for the update. Been enjoying your content.
well i think there is multiple problems most of what you already mentioned . that treed mill motor ether has to go or he needs a better gearing system . it would be better to change the motor . he needs a low rpm high out put pm motor . your best bet with this set up is to make your own permanent magnet alternator it would produce ac current and lots of it depending on the size of your magnets and your coils of wire . the stronger the magnets the better . but with im going to say 18 gauge wire coils you could use a fairly small rare earth magnets that would do the job . you could set the coils in resin that would keep them dry and safe from moister . again it would be ac current and would have little to no drop off in the line . once at the house or where ever it could be run through a voltage regulator to switch it to dc current to charge a battery bank . its not the set up of the wheel or its drive as much as it is the motor just cant produce the electricity you need . that treed mill motor needs way more rpms to put out any thing worth using . with the drop off of dc current to the house it would be worthless . if you could get it to produce enough there at the wheel to produce power it would have to be converted to ac asap to keep from losing current to the house . your best bet is a home made pm generator. if done right you could have a three phase pm that delivers 1k watts ac of energy constantly . ok thats my opinion on what will work . good luck
im sending a lnk to a video to show you what i mean . it will explain the basics of it at least . check your held for review comments if it dont show up
I'm no expert but it would seem to me you would want to use a more lightweight material so there is less mass for the water to move allowing it to move at a faster speed.
Since it is a wheel, the net weight is zero (or close to it) while turning. (as much going down as there is going up). It will be slower to get up to speed, but once at speed, the actual weight is not relevant
By the way if he were to use 6v batteries the system can work as is. He could also use 3.2 lithium ion batteries... Ofcoz with the correct battery management system or charge controller. The alternative is what most have said here.
Waterwheel!!!!! 💧 wheel
Haha yes. Fun stuff!
Need to add more speed at motor to bring it up to fastest efficiency. Gear box would do it or several more belt drives to increase motor speed. Also bearings will prematurely burn out they dont get hot enough to move grease back into the races. Make an oak bearing using two oak blocks drill a hole in from tip and oul every 3 days. Will last for years
why use a small bicycle gear next to the water wheel?
Do you guys get the smart drive washing machines over in the USA, their motors are more suited to converting to low RPM generators.
Most brands have a model or two that have them. Whirlpool/Maytag/Fisher-Paykel and Samsung both have Copper wound stators if you get the right models. All of them do better at a speed faster than what the wheel currently is putting out though. At the current speed of 225RPM a Samsung Copper 36 pole wired as 3 phases of 4 parallel sets of 3 coils in series will put out 26VDC at 114Watts. The same unit at 500RPM will put out 383Watts. Doubling the speed triples the output on the low end of their speeds.
@@gravelydon7072 what voltage would you get not modifying the coils, the wattage should be the same at the same RPM i would say.
@@nicholaskeur I'll have to run a test as I do not remember. You do not get the same number of Watts out at the same RPM unfortunately. You can get nearly double the Watts at the 3 phase 6 coil per phase setup on the 18pole units as you get on the 3 phase 2 parallel sets of 3 coils at 250RPM. My theory is that to get the same output at the same RPM would require that each coil set would need its own rectifier as the magnets and the coils on the stator do no line up all at the same time.
@@gravelydon7072 Watts, or amps? a higher voltage will show lower amps, but put through a MPPT will downscale volts but increase amps
@@nicholaskeur Watts. The magnets have to charge the coils and it seems that they do better at higher output Voltages and also at higher RPM. I did my tests on the 18 pole units and found that the efficiency of the motor generator combinations had a better COE at higher RPM or higher number of coils in series. 62.6% at 500RPM with 3 phases of 6 coils producing 80.3Volts and 179 Watts while 3 phases of 3 sets of two coils produced 40 Volts at 170 Watts and a 59.54% COE at the same RPM. I have to be careful with the 3 x 1 x 6 coil version as if I drive it with the 3x3x2 coil one it can hit 2000 RPM and exceed 300 Volts. The 18 pole units are only designed to run at 300 Volts and 800 RPM so you have a lot of potential for safety problems.
The 36 pole units also are designed to run at 300 Volts ( Samsung units ) and 1200 or 1400 RPM. At 1000RPM they can produce 860 Watts.
If the neighbor does need to change the treadmill motor for another motor he could look at a motor for a front load washing machine because it's three phase AC and it may do better than a DC treadmill motor does or he can contact Langston at Langston alternative power and ask if he could make a turbine for the water wheel.
Just a question Why couldn't a smaller water wheel work . Wouldn't it go faster then doing all the gearing down.
The larger the wheel the more area there is to hold water and that water weight is what creates the torque. At least that's the way I understand it. A smaller wheel would not have the torque to create much power.
@@LandtoHouse your meaning when you hook up to power like you say it would slow down the wheel stoping the power. I got you thank you
My my! 1)For starters to make any informed suggestions it would be nice to know what the information is on that treadmill motor says. If you can read the label it could give some idea what your working with. Guessing is pretty much useless.
2)That said that Generator/motor needs to be turned much faster for starters.
3) If you could add wood to the wheel where it would hold the water better that would be a better for the intended goal it it's ever going to be reached. (Charge an RV, that far away)
its got potential. it in low gear it could spin a much faster in top gear & yes he Need to catchier more water on the top of the water wheel & hold it there for much longer he could put lips sloping lips on the front of the paddles. increasing the water & holding more of the water longer & to spill out at the bottom. of the wheel. it's the fall that count's. as the increace Tark water increases speed it reduces dregs . water flowing over a wheel if far better to flowing Hounded the wheal . Hight X flout' size X volume of water catcher & retained + torque water at the top & holding until it reaches the bottom in gallons is the key. this Enables Gearing to be. grater speeds. that spot could charge 400 wats of power ,
I dont think its getting 220 RPM. If you look at how slow the wheel is going. If you were to make a mark at the top and watch it do a complete revolution it would take alot longer than 1 second. 60 seconds in a minute. No way thats doing 2+ revolutions a second.
I think if the wheel itself had reservoirs built into the rudders it would hold water adding weight which will add speed. Also if he didnt use a culvert pipe and used a PVC water pipe there wouldnt be asmuch speed lossage due to the rigid dips and nooks in the culvert pipe. Id leave the pipe intact too. Why cut it in half? keep the debris out easier. I also think you are right. If it was pulled back about a foot and had a steeper grade it would add more speed aswell.
A metal cap to increase water retention in each cup would speed the wheel.
In my view, the use of a motor here is a mistake as the voltage drop from wheel to the point of use (RV) is too great. Because there is less voltage drop in AC. he would be better off turning an alternator with the bridge removed, running the AC up to a bridge located at the RV, and then into the charge controller. If he wants to stick with the motor, he could use an inverter at the wheel and ship AC up the hill much more safely and efficiently.
That would be geared up. The second smaller gear spins faster.
The pulley which is on the motor should be smaller, so that the motor run faster.
I wonder how this stacks up to Angry Ram's washing machine hydro thingy.
looks like this has less torque if Seth can stop it barehanded.
There's not a lot of water in those cups. I think once he gets things fine tuned there'll be a lot more torque.
Isn't he using a high head pressure turgo system?
@@LandtoHouse I think so.
Figuring out proper Gearing ratios would be the biggest bang for the buck.
Drop the pipe until 3 in off the wheel move the wheel for word until end of pipe is right and centre of it should at between thirty-five to forty percent more spin to the
Nobody in their right mind would ever use a water wheel to power a fridge.
Move wheel forward 2-3 ft
What he has is a Swiss water wheel. Ultimately it works more like a pelican wheel. But no enclosed pipe and faucet nozzle. The idea situation for what he has is high fast flow moving stream of water shooting through a flume from the top of the mountain. A harnessed waterfall. Working with that type of water will his first problem is he doesn't have the Links of Rush he needs. To fix this. 1 I don't think he is corrugated pipe and then ripples and the corrugated pipe is to his benefit he needs a smooth pipe. 2. He probably needs to move the water wheel away and lower from the levee. Drop is important.. 3 the water needs to hit the wheel somewhere at the 11:00 to 12:00 position. Ultimately water hitting directly on the back side of the panel. This is the proper way the Swiss ran their mountain water wheels which is what he has made. Should you make these improvements .. I don't think he has the efficient gushing water No I do not think that you should make the authorizations.. you should make it more of a leverage concept water wheel. And add the skirts on the side and more importantly placing a board inside each bucket to hold back the water from falling out so quickly. This would employ leverage The leverage will produce torque especially when friction from the electric unit provides resistance as it provides resistance the buckets will fall to their Max. Increasing torque because there's more weight on the wheel.. now you get to see the letter below my frustrations and just looking at what is done. I will say that the woodworker that made the wheel did a good job constructing what he has constructed. Certainly it shows craftsmanship.
Yea no expert but I would fine tune the water and the get a PMG run the 3phase up to the camper so no real loss
I have a feeling we will be working on this in the summer. Should give lots of good content as my neighbor makes changes.
Car alternator best choice
A rewired car alternator would be good. I gave him this treadmill motor about a year ago just to try out.
it is not the least efficient of all, at these very weak powers only permanent magnets !
I'm amazed how bad this wheel is, it's a known design, that already has been perfected hundreds of years ago in Europa.. .. so if one just did some research it's not rocket science building an efficient water wheel ... but I'm still: why even make a huge water wheel? when turbines exists?
Your nabor. does not know to much but at less he tried .
I think he did a fantastic job on his 1st try. I'm sure he'll have fun making changes and tweaking over the coming year/years.
All of these arm chair engineers commenting and very few have ever posted a video let alone that pertains to their “expertise”. 🙄
guy, you loose more then a half of water on the working wheel. try to decrease splashes.
at 4:45, it is the OTHER end of the flume that needs to be lower.!!!!! water should FALL into buckets; not FLY.!!!
Rhe water is to cllose to rhw end
at 8:58,. it needs an ALTERNATOR.!
Nice look, but not efficiecy.
Seth, here is a water wheel video ( ruclips.net/video/17CpJxlwzNg/видео.html ) which shows "exactly" the points that both you and others have mentioned. It is a smaller design than what you show but it shows just how the paddles need to be positioned as well as where the water should hit the wheel for best output.
WHY IS IT THAT WHEN YOU GUYS BUILD A WATER WHEEL. YOU GET YOUR PLANS FROM THE GARDEN CENTER. . WHY DON'T YOU BUILD YOURSELF AN INDUSTRIAL WHEEL.. YOU TRYING TO MAKE ELECTRICITY WITH SOMETHING THAT'S JUST SUPPOSED TO LOOK PRETTY. IF YOU LOOK AT A GOOD BUCKET ONLY WATER WHEEL AT 90°, IT LOOKS LIKE THE LETTER G. YOU'RE TRYING TO KEEP WATER ON THE WHEEL AND IT FALLS AT THE VERY BOTTOM UPON UPRISING. THE IDEA IS LEVERAGE LEVERAGE INCREASING UNDER TORQUE. YOUR FLUME CONCEPT IS POOR YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO HAVE WATER BACKED UP INTO THE FLUME AND POURING DIRECTLY DOWN ONTO THE BUCKETS. PREFERABLY AT POSITION 1:00 LOOKING YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO HAVE RUNNING SIDEBOARDS SO THAT THE OVERFLOW WATER WILL FLOW INTO THE NEXT BUCKET. .. YES THERE ARE QUITE A FEW DIFFERENT TYPES OF WATER WHEELS. I AM FRUSTRATED THAT YOU GUYS DO NOT DO THE RESEARCH AND PICK YOURSELF OUT A GOOD ONE FOR ELECTRICITY..
Totally agree, a little bit of research shows that waterwheels are mature technology and the design is well understood AND DOCUMENTED in libraries to be copied for efficient, powerful wheels.
Poorly framed video, the display on the measuring devices is unreadable.
Why would the wheel slow down guy? Volts would just drop. And the water falling farther is better, that's where the power comes from. Higher fall, more power
If u know gearing u want biggest gear on wheel same size as wheel then smallest gear u can use for it smaller gear spins ten times one spin vs 1 spin per wheel with two smaller gears u want a giant gear same size as wheel only way it works and smallest gear on generator best thing is bike gears cut em screw em to other edge of wheel cut bike gear in 4 spots 3 screw holes peace metal over it add more teeth over time bigger gear trust me smaller gear on motor has to be dc and best way chop up bike gears for free space em out cheaper plus wood gear right thick asf put metal braces size lil bit smaller then wheel but bigger better then add cut chain brackets to make bigger wheel gear
Nice look, but not efficiecy.
Nice look, but not efficiecy.