ESPN can't force any school to join another conference and really don' have the money to do so. If they tried that could push FSU, Clemson and other schools to shy away from the SEC. It was smart for the B1G to let the contract with ESPN to expire and they now have much greener pastures ahead
It is going to be hilarious to see SEC fans that have been bashing Clemson and FSU for years to all of a sudden change their tunes and start saying how tough both teams are if they are in the SEC. The hypocrisy just means more.
Take the bashing you get towards Clemson and FSU multiply it by 100 and that’ll be close to the bashing we do to each other in the SEC. It’s an SEC tradition. Having thick skin is an SEC prerequisite for membership, all others need not apply. Of course any good programs that play SEC schools are going to get bashed, take it as a compliment. It’s freakin football.
@@jansonroberts2616 😂 No it isn't. It hasn't been until a little over the past decade since ESECPN started pushing the SEC hype heavily for ratings that SEC fans started cheering for a conference instead of their teams. The majority of the SEC never even make it to the SEC CCG so they root for a conference now to make themselves feel so tough. FSU and Clemson have won 3 NCs in the past decade over your SEC's best. That last one by Clemson was Bama getting bashed. 😁
1992 sir. That’s when the SEC commissioner, Roy Kramer implemented his SEC branding initiative that changes our conference and separated it from all the others. There are books out there that explain how it was approached and implemented. As far as FSU and Clemson, if they do end up in the SEC, they’ll be great additions that will bring awesome matchups within the SEC. But they both can expect plenty of trash talk and bashing along the way. Ask Texas and Oklahoma how much they’re getting right now and they haven’t even played a game. Expect it, embrace it and enjoy it. Maybe FSU goes B1G . We’ll see how it goes.
@@jansonroberts2616 You totally missed the point. SEC fans have been saying for years how FSU and Clemson are trash and could never make it in the SEC. But once they join, it will be all about how tough both teams are now because they're in the conference. Totally hypocritical. Heck, Missouri joined and went to the SEC CCG twice in it's first two years. Missouri! So much for it being so dominant a conference. It has some top heavy teams but that's all it is. The rest are teams that get overated each year to push the SOS and ratings. We all know the majority of SEC teams never even go to the SEC CCG because simply put, they're just your average, mediocre teams.
It's called human nature. Especially in sports. Ex: An opposing player gets booed by fans. The next season he joins that team and the same fans who booed him now cheer him. Similar principle with conferences.
Louisville football has been ranked in the top ten 6 different seasons over the last 30 years, so yeah, they've had some good years. They are also selling season tickets like crazy since hiring Jeff Brohm. Their attendance is going to be like night and day from the Satterfield years. Brohm's recruiting has kicked off well too, with some having UofL as the #1 portal recruiting class. UofL football finished 4th in ACC viewership over the last few years behind Clemson, FSU and Miami. It's definitely a program on the rise and basketball has nowhere to go but up.
At the end of the year? Anyone can be ranked in the Top 10 during the season or preseason. Papa John's Stadium has always been giving away seats. It predates Satterfield. Louisville is lucky they still have a basketball and/or football program. No integrity whatsoever, especially hiring Petrino TWICE.
I watch a lot of college football, and I can tell you dead on noone cares about Louisville football. It's not nearly popular enough to get an invite to big 10 or sec.
ESPN can't legally just move teams from one conference to another without agreement by all parties, which is every team in the SEC and ACC. The only way they could do that is by paying everyone more money to make them happy. The ACC isn't going to agree to loose their best football programs because it delegitimizes their conference, unless they are paid a lot more money, until 2036, which they aren't worth. Then every team from the SEC would have to agree to accept them. I think it takes a unanimous vote to add conference members in the SEC. ESPN and their owner Mickey Mouse are going broke, they couldn't even afford to pay the SEC for a 9th conference game. So I don't think they have the extra revenue to appease the ACC, nor would they be willing to actually overpay for them just to keep FSU and Clemson under their umbrella because it's not worth it financially.
It doesn't take a unanimous vote for new SEC members. It does take a unanimous vote to amend the ACC's GOR. An intact ACC is likely worth slightly less than the SEC/B1G and materially more than the new BIG12 on a per team basis. Nevertheless, both the SEC and B1G have long-term interests and concerns that extend out past their current media deals.
@@tarheel7406 I thought it takes a majority of members to void a business contract in the state of NC, where the ACC's HQ is located. That's the whole theory of it taking 8 conference members to vote to blow the ACC up because the federal court would have to apply NC state law do to it's location and jurisdiction.
@@roris5882 Sorry, but honestly, this story is now 2 years old and the majority vote options for the ACC were seriously reported 1 year ago. The belief is that it takes a simple majority to dissolve the ACC. How that would affect contracts, etc. is a different question. Regardless, unless an actual dissolution is required for legal purposes, a threat should yield a settlement and release.
@@tarheel7406what exactly do you mean when you say the ACC would be worth "materially more" than the current Big 12 teams? Because while FSU and Clemson are obviously more valuable than any Big 12 team, I don't see the rest of the ACC being any more valuable than the Big 12 on a per school basis. I'm also pretty sure that the difference between the ACC and Big 12 deals is less money than the difference between the Big Ten and SEC deals. Big Ten schools made $9 million more than their SEC counterparts last year. It's also true that ESPN doesn't seem to have the money to throw at FSU and Clemson going to the SEC, especially because that move would tank the value of the ACC as a whole and mean that ESPN is likely overpaying for the remaining ACC teams until 2036. Given all of that, any ACC teams that would get accepted by the Big Ten should be working together to bust up the ACC and join the Big Ten. UVA, UNC, Clemson, GT, FSU, and Miami make up a block of 6 programs that should be doing whatever they can to break up the ACC and get themselves into the Big Ten.
@@johnwatsoniv384 "what exactly do you mean when you say the ACC would be worth "materially more" than the current Big 12 teams?" I good faith estimate that the ACC has an average media value per team ~twice that of the new BIG12. "I don't see the rest of the ACC being any more valuable than the Big 12 on a per school basis." Really. The new BIG is the original BIG12 less its top half plus G5 backfill plus low value PAC remainders. The ACC is relatively intact. " I'm also pretty sure that the difference between the ACC and Big 12 deals is less money than the difference between the Big Ten and SEC deals." The ACC actual vale is much closer to the SEC/B1G than the new BIG12. This is evidenced by so many ACC teams being of SEC/B1G interest and none of the BIG12 are. "It's also true that ESPN doesn't seem to have the money to throw at FSU and Clemson going to the SEC, especially because that move would tank the value of the ACC as a whole and mean that ESPN is likely overpaying for the remaining ACC teams until 2036." None of this is likely true or that relevant to the question at hand.
Per the Clemson Insider the GOR is not keeping CU from leaving the ACC. CU is just waiting for a formal invitation from the SEC or Big 10. SC legislation has a law that grants sovereignty over all public universities that protects it from massive lawsuits.
Sovereign immunity generally applies to negligence, not an intentional breach of contract. I suspect that the State would have to "take" the contract and pay the fair market value of same. People need to be wary of what is written on message boards. Again, the best legal challenge would be on public policy. No invite is coming until the GOR is resolved.
I’ve heard this already but even if it could be applied for Clemson, it couldn’t be applied to the SEC and trust me, the SEC isn’t going to put themselves into legal jeopardy with the ACC.
Unless you have some insider knowledge, I don't see Virginia going to the SEC. If they leave the ACC, I see them going to the B1G. UVA meets the criteria for that conference and it brings back the UVA / Maryland rivalry.
I don't think Notre Dame is moving anywhere new in the next 3 years or so. But, I think they eventually they will join a conference. If Stanford eventually joins the BIG-10, the BIG --? will contain all of Notre Dame's biggest rivals. As such, it will then have the power to tell those institutions not to schedule games with ND. No more football games between ND and it's rivals to air on TV will then lower NDs value and ability to negotiate independently.
What I am wondering is, ESPN has to know how much discontent there is with their current media rights deal and some schools are pushing very hard to get out, potentially rendering the conference a nonentity in college football. They may feel they like wanting to hold the conference to the terms of the contract but if the conference falls apart ultimately that is a loss for them. Why not nip this in the bud and negotiate with them on the condition all the teams stay. They would not get SEC or Big10 money but should be able to get at least as good or better money than the Big12. Now if ESPN wants to set fire to the ACC and transfer the top programs to the SEC so that makes more money and keeps the ACC alive on life support with the long-term deal then who knows. I do agree ESPN has a lot of sway in this situation so it really depends on their future plans.
The ACC's current deal is already better than the BIG12's. My working number is that the ACC has to get to ~85% of the new benchmark to prevent depletion.
The schools were happy when the signed the deal (just stupid to sign such a long deal imho). Just can't see ESPN being happy to pay $30+m more for the same school program.
Pittsburgh belongs in the big 12 cause their rivalry with West virginia along with the Holy War on Thanksgiving weekend along with the Iron Bowl and Michigan Ohio state
Teams that make sense to join the SEC Clemson and any school in the carolinas Florida State and any school in Florida NC State UNC Any school in Kentucky, any school in Virginia, and any school in Tennessee.
Disney/ESPN are drowning. Sportscenter is an SNL sketch of what Sportscenter used to be. People are ditching cable and anyone can see highlights online without ESPN. ESPN isn't going to be a major force in sports for much longer if they keep heading the way they're heading.
I still think the BiG, assuming they go to 24, would be UVA, UNC, Duke (?), & either GT, or Mia. They would have to have disband the ACC. I think all are AAU. I don't see FSU in the B1g, could be wrong. They want ND and since the B1G has MBC, it would make sense to have more games on the network. Then FSU, Clem, NCSU, VT to SEC. IF ACC is gone then others go to the X12 or somewhere else.
I’m pretty sure that UNC comes over to the SEC along with NC State, Clemson and FSU. The others are good gets for the B1G. I have my doubts on GT. But we’ll see if they can garner an invite when the time comes.
The 2 best cultural fits for the BIG12 are VTech and NCSt by far. Passionate diehard fan bases like the BIG12. Pitt isn’t a match culturally but will be in the BIG12 if anything happens to the ACC.
Clemson only has one legitimate title (2018). 1981 should've been vacated a long time ago for NCAA violations and 2016 was the most crooked, ref-assisted national championship* team I've ever seen. 14 points off blatant OPI just in the NCG game win* against Alabama by 1 point, and that was just in the NCG. Throughout the entire season the refs gave them several wins.
Maybe. But no one is informing the acc today. So the acc will survive has constituted for at least two more years. Let’s do this all again next summer? lol.
1981 I believe. They beat Ohio State in a bowl game where Woody Hayes infamously punched a Clemson player and got fired, and Clemson won it's first national title.
Depressed Ginger, as a Georgia Bulldog fan and an SEC guy I really believe Clemson and FSU are going to the B1G with North Carolina and N.C. State. Those teams will regret that move in the long run IMO. The SEC will just add who we consider the best of what's left. It's not the quantity that matters, it's the quality.
Go Dawgs! In my opinion, UNC and NC State will come to the SEC when the time comes. They have no desire toward a northern conference that takes them away from their own geographical region.
If quality mattered to the SEC they would have kicked out the choke artists in Athens a long time ago. When COVID hit, UGA had 2 national titles, the most recent one being 40 years old. Vanderbilt, Kentucky, Missouri, TAMU, Ole Miss, Miss State, Arkansas, South Carolina... which of those programs are "quality"?
I see DI breaking into 3 different divisions, FCS, Power 3, and the so-called Group of 5 conferences. If NCAA forces 10 game conference schedules, what's the point of scheduling against cupcake teams?
Espn going thru financial difficulties, Disney just made a few cuts with their staff on espn. If Clemson and FS had a choice between Big10 or SEC, they are running to big 10.
4 billion in revenue in 2022. Estimated higher than 4 billion in 2023. Don’t believe everything you hear on the internet. Disney is loosing millions in movie productions and theme park losses but that’s not ESPN. ESPN is about to launch their 2 billion dollar ESPN Bet sports book platform. Estimates are that it will double the 4 billion per year revenue it’s already getting per year. ESPN is also about to bid on some NBA contracts. They aren’t broke. They did some restructuring on the tv networks but every major corporation in the US has been doing it.
@@jansonroberts2616100%....Disney and ESPN are just fine, also the losses on their movies right now can largely be attributed to very high production costs because a lot of them were filmed under COVID restrictions. Indiana Jones, Little Mermaid, Ant Man 3 made money....just they needed more to offset high production costs.
@@jansonroberts2616 if they were doing so great why make all the cuts? And let's see if they give the ACC a deal similar to the deal Fox/CBS provided to the Big10. If Clemson and FSU thought that Espn could match what the Big10 had to offer, negotiation would be in silence and back door deals would have been made already. But no, they can't afford, at this time, to offer any deal, so knowing this Clemson and FSU wants out, now!
Ok, so I guess Elon Musk is broke because Tesla laid off 3500 workers. Right? Amazon is broke because they laid off 18000 workers. Right? You are equating lay offs to being broke or in financial trouble and that’s just not the case for a lot of companies. Would it shock you to know that Fox Sports had 100 layoffs? Are they broke too? Or maybe, just maybe, since ESPN lost the B1G ten content and since the PAC is down to its last year, maybe ESPN realized it needed to make some changes to better its financial structure going forward. I mean, they are about to get into the sports betting industry and they are about to begin contract bidding for some NBA games. They are about to be in a bidding war with all tv networks for the 2026 college football playoffs. You don’t think that would maybe trigger some restructuring to strengthen their bottom line?
The main draw for the B1G to get Stanford is academics & their attractiveness to ND w/ USC & Stanford, both big rivalries for them. Literally ZERO reason to add Cal. At this point the B1G will NOT add also rans like Cal w/ Stanford & NC State w/ UNC. Just not enough slots & the original members aren't going to want to dilute their payouts so that Cal can join.
I think would be a good for college football if we adapt a Champions League style schedule like in Europe, The Top 4 teams from each conference, Play each other during season last team standing win large pot for the conference, And all leagues split the TV money
ESPN has little incentive to force FSU and Clemson into the SEC. It would just mean the network is voluntarily paying more for broadcast rights they already possess.
It would make sense for Clemson, FSU, Miami & GT to go to the SEC, and split the rest of the ACC between the others. Geographically most of these recent expansions are utter nonsense and will devalue the college experience of sports that compete more than once a week and don't have football money. NCAA is negligent in responsible oversight here and athlete well being is the last concern.
It would make sense in what way? All of those schools would make significantly more money in the Big Ten, and all but Clemson would fit in way more with the Big Ten academically as well. The SEC doesn't stand to gain much from those teams either because they already have those 3 states within their footprint. Adding these teams would be a defensive move by the SEC to keep them away from the Big Ten. Clemson is probably the only one that fits in more with the SEC than the Big Ten culturally, but even with that they would be stupid to pick the SEC when they would make more money and have access to more big brands by joining the Big Ten. In 2024 the Big Ten will have 5 of the 10 winningest CFB programs vs only 3 for the SEC, and the current count is 4 to 1 in favor of the Big Ten. Any ACC team that ultimately is given the chance to join the Big Ten would be stupid to pass it up for any other available alternative.
You don't know what you're talking about regarding Louisville. They have top facilities and they have a bigger following than you'd think. Not to mention, they have money too.
@@jayhitmaan9993 FSU hasn't lost to an SEC team in years. 2021 UF was the most recent and FSU was rebuilding. FSU was rebuilding last year and beat 2 SEC teams, including the SEC West champions.
The GOR covers home games not all games. If Florida St. And Clemson pay to leave the ACC the idea is that they will join the B1G and make the difference between what the B1G pays them and what the ACC pays. If it's a full B1G share it could be $50 million.
@@davidb3422 a) The ACC doesn't have to accept any offer from any team that wants to leave b) The evidence suggests no B1G interest in either CLEMSON or FSU
Dennis Dodd has an article that says the B1G and SEC passed on FSU and Clemson for now. I think your comment has some merit. I continue to hear some say that if the GOR could be broken, it would have been by now. If FSU can get the financing lined up with a private equity company, maybe in a year or two, but that’s all just conjecture as well. We’ll see how it plays out.
a) If the ACC "just" lost the top 4, are replacements needed? Why wouldn't a smaller, regional 10-team Tier 2 ACC be better than the inefficient, diluted, national Tier 2 BIG12? UCONN + NAVY perhaps to keep the ND arrangement since the B1G/SEC at 20 each isn't enough to close the playoff. b) Recent events suggest that NCSTATE will get an SEC invite with or without UNC. c) PITT, L'VILLE & GATECH were the strongest "yes" votes on CAL/STANFORD, which suggests that they prefer an ACC rebuild over moving to the BIG12.
It almost feels like if the Non ACC power seven leave, the Phoenix of the Big East could Rise from the Ashes. Convensing West Virginia and Cincinnati to Return Home and grab the like of Memphis, Tulane, USF and potentially UCF on the Island. You get a new Big East in the ACC. Divisions model for Simplicity North Boston College Cincinnati Louisville Pittsburgh Syracuse UCONN West Virginia South Duke Georgia Tech Memphis Tulane UCF/USF/Miami(Lottery level Longshot)/East Carolina Virginia Tech (Part of the Seven but might convense to stay) Wake Forest
ESPN doesn't even have the money to pay the SEC for a 9th conference game. The B1G already has the escalator clauses built into their new TV contract to add new members to drive it's value through the roof. Plus the B1G already generates more money for sports AND academics. The B1G has the academic resources and influence to help FSU and Clemson earn the AAU memberships they covet.
I don’t know why you stick with all the wrong moves. I’ve mentioned this multiple times to you now mate. Florida State, Clemson, and Miami would go to the Big Ten, not SEC.
Memphis has a lot of downsides that are hard to overlook, they are probably the fifth team as an option. If they got a game against UT every year that might help a bit.
They Should try to add Stanford and Cal if they can also get notre dame assuming FSU and Clemson are gone, then add AAU schools like Tulane, USF, and rice for academics
The ACC keeps moving forward. The best thing that the ACC can do right now is to come out of the gate winning. FSU vs LSU is huge UVA vs Tennessee UNC vs South Carolina Miami vs Texas A&M Georgia Tech vs Ole Miss VT vs Purdue NC State vs Notre Dame I (as an NC State Fan) don't want to join the SEC....I want to beat them I realize that 13 years is a long time to ride this grant of rights out and it's certainly a long shot. Given a few season the mega leagues might see some dissatisfied schools when they find themselves with .500 records season after season.
I'm a lifetime ACC fan but a realist.....you're probably right. I'm referring to all of those games collectively. In the games listed I don't think the ACC team can be listed as even a touchdown favorite in any of them. I attended the FSU-LSU game in New Orleans last year....it was the greatest college football environment that I've even seen in person. I'm just ready to get the season started
Clemson also has Notre Dame. In any case most of these are losses, and all of them could be. They are favored to win your list exactly zero by FPI except UNC/USC (Clemson has a higher FPI slightly than ND though). Best shots are ND @ Clemson, UNC/USC, FSU/LSU, A&M @ Miami. If we win all four of those we've probably done all we can as a conference beyond hoping for one upset among the rest.
1. Duke, Wake Forest, Syracuse, and Boston College should all go independent in football. Form an alliance with Notre Dame and Army for football scheduling where they all play each other. Notre Dame, Duke, Wake Forest, Syracuse, and Boston College go Big East in all other sports. 2. FSU, Clemson, Georgia Tech, and NC State go to the SEC. 3. UNC, UVA, Va Tech, and Miami go Big 10. 4. Pitt and Louisville go to the Big 12.
I think if you swap GT and VaTech you're on to something here. VT is more of an SEC school and GT is an AAU member and adds ATL/GA to the B1G footprint.
@@MountainWreck Very true. It's a huge agricultural and engineering school. Plus it's also one of the senior military colleges. It's just like Texas A&M. NC State is a big agricultural school as well.
The only way GT gets an invite to the SEC is if the SEC throws caution to the wind and adds every single ACC University. Even then, GT would have to sign some guarantees. First, they bulldoze that horrible place they call a stadium and contract the Mississippi State engineers to come in and build a real stadium. Second, they have to pay UGA a big brother tax, ten percent of their media money for ten years, sounds about right. In return, UGA agrees to mentor their little brother on the intricate details of building a quality athletic program with quality facilities. Take it or leave it. 😬 Go Dawgs!
@@natedunker123 Yeah, if UNC is going B1G, so is UVA. The reverse is feasible. Anway, it's relatively well established that the SEC will go hard for UVA/UNC and then back that up with CLEMSON/FSU for a very effective firewall against B1G expansion south.
Where exactly is ESPN going to get the money to pay Clemson and FSU twice what they're already getting to be in the SEC instead though? And are they gonna be wanting to pay the remaining ACC teams as though FSU and Clemson are still there? Even if FSU and Clemson start with reduced shares in the SEC we're talking about money that ESPN doesn't have to throw around. Are the other SEC teams gonna take a financial hit to put up the money to add those schools? That would put them all even further behind the Big Ten, whose members made $9 million more last year than the SEC teams did. The Big Ten could add those schools right now with zero additional money from Fox and still be making as much or more per school compared to the SEC. Fox also seems to actually have the resources to help the Big Ten expand more, where ESPN can only help the SEC by making the ACC buyout smaller for those teams. The Big Ten should sit at 18 teams until it's able to get aggressive and snag all the ACC teams it wants.
"And are they gonna be wanting to pay the remaining ACC teams as though FSU and Clemson are still there?" Yes. The ACC's deal is already discounted down to a Tier 2 level, that it would take heavy depletion for the value to drop below the contract rater. "Are the other SEC teams gonna take a financial hit to put up the money to add those schools?" Probably not for CLEMSON & FSU since the B1G isn't likely to have an interest.
@@tarheel7406 I don't know exactly how much the ACC makes per school, but I've seen something around $40 million which places them third among the conferences in TV money. Taking away the two biggest football programs in one swoop would definitely drop that value significantly, like into the Big 12's range, which means ESPN would be paying extra money for those schools for the next 14 seasons. They'd also have to pay more than that to FSU and Clemson for those schools to join the SEC, because what's the point of leaving for the same money? ESPN probably wants to make this happen, but I don't think they actually can make it happen right now.
@@johnwatsoniv384 My only point relative to your last response is that the ACC's current deal is heavily discounted, so it wouldn't necessarily drop after CLEMSON/FSU leave. The departures would reduce ESPN's excess profits. In other words, the average value per ACC team would drop but likely not below what ESPN is paying. The new BIG12 is the bottom half of the original BIG12 + dilutive backfill + the neutral 4Cs, and is worth ~$30M per. A 12.5 team ACC with no dilutive backfill should be worth more on average.
@@tarheel7406 but the reason the Big 12 is diluted is the fact that it lost Texas and Oklahoma. If the Big 12 still had those two programs it would be worth just as much if not more than the ACC in sports because of how valuable those two football programs are. The Big 12 also got the best possible teams from the non-P5 field. You can't tell me that Cincinnati is not equivalent to Louisville in terms of value, for example. The ACC has added teams of the same value that the Big 12 added last year and this year to get to its existing membership. The ACC's advantage would be that its smaller teams are still in more populous states along the Atlantic Coast where the Big 12 has a good number of its teams from smaller states, but even then, they cover a much larger geographic area, and I would argue that most of the leftover ACC schools don't have as passionate of fanbases for football as the Big 12 teams do. The ACC isn't going to be able to backfill like the Big 12 was able to, especially because even after losing its 2 biggest football powers it will still have schools that the Big Ten and SEC want. The Big 12 has positioned itself perfectly to be the third wheel long term and stick around by consolidating the position that the conferences it was built out of have always occupied relative to the Big Ten and SEC. The ACC is gonna be fine in the short term if it only loses Clemson and FSU, but once that happens it becomes inevitable that they lose more, because they'll still have teams on the table that the big dogs want. How much money do you think the ACC can command per school if it loses UNC and Miami along with FSU and Clemson, whether to different conferences or the same conference? That's all it would take for them to go from staying afloat to having the good teams get gobbled up in a matter of a few weeks while the leftovers are stuck looking for a new, worse home. That's how it happened for the PAC.
Espn cannot let FSU CLEMSON do anything. ACC schools will not let them leave without paying a massive price. The other schools in ACC have no motivation to allow them out on the cheap.
The likely remainders have an incentive to start the backfill earlier with more options. Also assures some compensation rather than risk getting nothing after litigation or 2036.
I have a feeling certain schools will try to block the addition of any new teams into the ACC until they have a ticket out. That said, letting Clemson and FSU go next year with a discount on the payout would immediately leave enough yes votes to add any schools into the conference. Perhaps a trade
@@Doc_Boots The likely remainders don't want to void the grant of rights, and only objectors to expansion would get the voidability. So FSU can't vote "yes" on a dilutive expansion, and then use that to challenge the GOR. This is why TX/OK had to be kept financially whole while bringing in the +4 early. The BIG12 dealt with that be releasing TX/OK early. They had abstained on what schools were added but not on the date of the additions.
ND isn't moving until the 2026 playoff renegotiation. I also think they'll be forced to move once every conference goes to 10 conference games and the top teams stop scheduling them. NBC won't be getting a return for their money, and they'll have a hard time getting 1 of 6/7 at-large berths playing a soft schedule.
@@tarheel7406 #1 The multiplier effect of losses starts this season. A $30 million loss between ACC schools vs B1G/SEC becomes $60M next year, $90M the year after, and so on that will never be recovered by ACC schools unless donors plug the gap. That's $390M in losses based simply on the TV deals signed today. The B1G and SEC both renew again before 2036 so that loss will easily eclipse $500M per ACC team over a 13-year period. There's a diminishing return in trying to avoid exit fees and legal bills after 5 years. Unlike FSU, ND is listed by name in the B1G contract so the networks, especially NBC, are likely to subsidize their move. Plus the B1G has over $1.5B in cash reserves to help as well. #2 It was just reported the SEC and B1G both intend to take more control over the CFP starting as early as the 2024 agreement. Why would they want more power if they don't plan to use it? ND is on record saying they'll remain independent as long as they have a viable path to the playoffs and the revenue disparity isn't too great. The new playoff structure won't favor either for ND. #3 ND needs to play a competitive schedule to justify earning 1 of 6/7 playoff positions over conference teams. They also need it to justify whatever their new NBC contract because ND vs. Navy isn't worth $75M a year. PSU has publicly said they're not scheduling any more elite nonconference teams while playing a 9-game conference schedule. Everyone anticipates that'll become the norm as the SEC, B1G, and Big 12 ramp up to 10 conference games. Those are the three main reasons ND will either be a full member of a conference by 2036.
They don't, ignorant fans just assume ESPN owns the ACC's GOR which isn't true. The ACC owns their own GOR and ESPN, the TV Network, has a TV contract with them.
@@roris5882That's what I thought. I'm just an ordinary Euro, so these types of things would be even more unthinkable for us on the eastern shore of the pond.
@@roris5882 If ESPN can't meet its good faith contractual obligations during the nest ACC "look in", that is the time to declare a breach and litigate the GOR. The fear is that FSU will foolishly file prematurely.
The ACC should not be defensive but very aggressive about adding other schools to the conference. Tap into the Tennessee market by adding Memphis, Louisiana market with the likes of Tulane, the Texas market through SMU, UTSA or North Texas, get back at Maryland by adding Navy. Forget about California and Stanford unless Notre Dame decides to join.
lol. North Texas? Even North Texas students don't care about Mean Green football. The ACC should be disbanded. They destroyed the Big East for greed and have destroyed themselves through greed, nepotism, and incompetence.
@@encycl07pedia- a) Neither has been the ACC. Sometimes doing no harm when pushed to "do something" is the hardest thing. b) Some loyalty to a long-time regional broadcaster with Tier 3 content is not a crime. c) The BIG12 could do no harm once TX/OK left, and relying on the mistakes of others isn't exactly great. You will have to do better.
So, if you want to develop a number chart it's BB 1x, football 5x, revenue NCAA titles .5x (any title after 1970), other NCAA titles .2x . Television viewership 1-10 (x10). Otherwise this chart is absurd and I can put some hilarious teams on there... base it on actual value athletically and to a television deal. Academics on -5(boise) to 10 (stanford, rice) scale. Research 1 (R2) to 10 (top 20 total overall expenditure) scale, 1 point each 100 million, +5 for AAU (all 10's are AAU already, almost everyone down to 500 million in research per year is).
@tarheel7406 yes, markets and big cities matter, for travel too. Tickets to and hotels (severely jacked on game weekends) in Tallahassee are a lot more expensive then to Atlanta or Boston regardless of the distance. Cheaper to fly to the bay area from Atlanta then it is from Atlanta to Tallahassee (though that one is bussable).
@@benjaminhawkes6693 I'm thinking more culture, brand, "fit", atypical concerns rather than logistics, but I'm sure that is also considered. There's a BIG12 tuber that thinks that the P2 would only be interested in CLEMSON, FSU & MIAMI. Makes sense from a P5 and BIG12 perspective, but he can't see from a future P2 world perspective or those of the SEC and B1G. Consider that OKSTATE is No. 2 on the list presented at the 8:00 mark, but where would it rank based on the wants, needs and preferences of the SEC or B1G?
@@tarheel7406 I've read a lot of talk about osu brand and viewership. I really don't know what to think except it has a lot of downside. I realize it has a bit of football success and some historic round orange ball success but outside of that is a micro market in a small state behind a far larger brand in the state. I've heard they (osu) will refuse to play bedlam now. Without that association the current value drops and the long term value will decline. I don't know if there's much room for second brands in a small state in a p2 world. Maybe there is but I can only think of USC and Clemson. I tend to think of Mississippi state as dead weight value wise.
@@benjaminhawkes6693 That's kind of the point. I consider OKSTATE a tentpole of the new BIG12, I was familiar with the brand, and clould have likely names as a member of that conference before this story started, yet in a P2 world.....
The BiG 10 adds Stanford 🌲 and Cal 🐻 that gets you to 20 and then you go shopping 🛒 in the ACC Syracuse, Notre Dame 🍀 Boston college and Pitt . BiG 10 has wanted Notre Dame 🍀 for years Syracuse is a 🏀 powerhouse Syracuse helps Rutgers with travel Pitt is an archrival for Penn State and Boston college and Notre Dame is alike Catholic
@@dannycolucci-jt4yv OSU won that game 17-14 in regulation if you want to cry foul. 21 years later and you babies are still crying about a legit Ohio State win.
I think Memphis will fit in the SEC better than the ACC Memphis have better rivalries with teams and the SEC like Vanderbilt Ole Miss Mississippi State Tennessee Arkansas rivals this already
When I lived in Memphis (son is Memphis alum), their fans really had a serious rivalry with UT. Memphis beat UT while I lived there, and a friend of mine wore a cap with the score on it. Memphis would definitely fit into the SEC better than some of the current teams.
@@tarheel7406 They won't have anything to cry about, accept their own bad decision making involving their own team, when they are making the big bucks.
@@roris5882 The evidence suggest no B1G interest in FSU, and FSU is a lower priority for the SEC. Someone wrote recently that FSU may now be considering the BIG12 based on some radio show discussion.
Sec should have stayed with CBS
Yes !++100000%
Stupid move indeed. CBS blows ESPN away in college football.
CBS was paying pennies for what the SEC was giving them
That SEC on CBS bumper music was iconic! I always knew what channel I was on without looking on Saturdays at 3/330.😆
@@isaacsherman6850 I'm with you there, but CBS was getting one of, if not the, game of the week for next to nothing comparatively
ESPN can't force any school to join another conference and really don' have the money to do so. If they tried that could push FSU, Clemson and other schools to shy away from the SEC. It was smart for the B1G to let the contract with ESPN to expire and they now have much greener pastures ahead
It is going to be hilarious to see SEC fans that have been bashing Clemson and FSU for years to all of a sudden change their tunes and start saying how tough both teams are if they are in the SEC. The hypocrisy just means more.
Take the bashing you get towards Clemson and FSU multiply it by 100 and that’ll be close to the bashing we do to each other in the SEC. It’s an SEC tradition. Having thick skin is an SEC prerequisite for membership, all others need not apply. Of course any good programs that play SEC schools are going to get bashed, take it as a compliment. It’s freakin football.
@@jansonroberts2616 😂 No it isn't. It hasn't been until a little over the past decade since ESECPN started pushing the SEC hype heavily for ratings that SEC fans started cheering for a conference instead of their teams. The majority of the SEC never even make it to the SEC CCG so they root for a conference now to make themselves feel so tough.
FSU and Clemson have won 3 NCs in the past decade over your SEC's best. That last one by Clemson was Bama getting bashed. 😁
1992 sir. That’s when the SEC commissioner, Roy Kramer implemented his SEC branding initiative that changes our conference and separated it from all the others. There are books out there that explain how it was approached and implemented. As far as FSU and Clemson, if they do end up in the SEC, they’ll be great additions that will bring awesome matchups within the SEC. But they both can expect plenty of trash talk and bashing along the way. Ask Texas and Oklahoma how much they’re getting right now and they haven’t even played a game. Expect it, embrace it and enjoy it. Maybe FSU goes B1G . We’ll see how it goes.
@@jansonroberts2616 You totally missed the point. SEC fans have been saying for years how FSU and Clemson are trash and could never make it in the SEC. But once they join, it will be all about how tough both teams are now because they're in the conference. Totally hypocritical. Heck, Missouri joined and went to the SEC CCG twice in it's first two years. Missouri! So much for it being so dominant a conference. It has some top heavy teams but that's all it is. The rest are teams that get overated each year to push the SOS and ratings. We all know the majority of SEC teams never even go to the SEC CCG because simply put, they're just your average, mediocre teams.
It's called human nature. Especially in sports. Ex: An opposing player gets booed by fans. The next season he joins that team and the same fans who booed him now cheer him.
Similar principle with conferences.
Louisville football has been ranked in the top ten 6 different seasons over the last 30 years, so yeah, they've had some good years. They are also selling season tickets like crazy since hiring Jeff Brohm. Their attendance is going to be like night and day from the Satterfield years. Brohm's recruiting has kicked off well too, with some having UofL as the #1 portal recruiting class. UofL football finished 4th in ACC viewership over the last few years behind Clemson, FSU and Miami. It's definitely a program on the rise and basketball has nowhere to go but up.
At the end of the year? Anyone can be ranked in the Top 10 during the season or preseason. Papa John's Stadium has always been giving away seats. It predates Satterfield.
Louisville is lucky they still have a basketball and/or football program. No integrity whatsoever, especially hiring Petrino TWICE.
you have not 1 clue...@@encycl07pedia-
I watch a lot of college football, and I can tell you dead on noone cares about Louisville football. It's not nearly popular enough to get an invite to big 10 or sec.
ESPN can't legally just move teams from one conference to another without agreement by all parties, which is every team in the SEC and ACC. The only way they could do that is by paying everyone more money to make them happy. The ACC isn't going to agree to loose their best football programs because it delegitimizes their conference, unless they are paid a lot more money, until 2036, which they aren't worth. Then every team from the SEC would have to agree to accept them. I think it takes a unanimous vote to add conference members in the SEC. ESPN and their owner Mickey Mouse are going broke, they couldn't even afford to pay the SEC for a 9th conference game. So I don't think they have the extra revenue to appease the ACC, nor would they be willing to actually overpay for them just to keep FSU and Clemson under their umbrella because it's not worth it financially.
It doesn't take a unanimous vote for new SEC members. It does take a unanimous vote to amend the ACC's GOR.
An intact ACC is likely worth slightly less than the SEC/B1G and materially more than the new BIG12 on a per team basis.
Nevertheless, both the SEC and B1G have long-term interests and concerns that extend out past their current media deals.
@@tarheel7406 I thought it takes a majority of members to void a business contract in the state of NC, where the ACC's HQ is located. That's the whole theory of it taking 8 conference members to vote to blow the ACC up because the federal court would have to apply NC state law do to it's location and jurisdiction.
@@roris5882 Sorry, but honestly, this story is now 2 years old and the majority vote options for the ACC were seriously reported 1 year ago. The belief is that it takes a simple majority to dissolve the ACC. How that would affect contracts, etc. is a different question.
Regardless, unless an actual dissolution is required for legal purposes, a threat should yield a settlement and release.
@@tarheel7406what exactly do you mean when you say the ACC would be worth "materially more" than the current Big 12 teams? Because while FSU and Clemson are obviously more valuable than any Big 12 team, I don't see the rest of the ACC being any more valuable than the Big 12 on a per school basis. I'm also pretty sure that the difference between the ACC and Big 12 deals is less money than the difference between the Big Ten and SEC deals. Big Ten schools made $9 million more than their SEC counterparts last year. It's also true that ESPN doesn't seem to have the money to throw at FSU and Clemson going to the SEC, especially because that move would tank the value of the ACC as a whole and mean that ESPN is likely overpaying for the remaining ACC teams until 2036. Given all of that, any ACC teams that would get accepted by the Big Ten should be working together to bust up the ACC and join the Big Ten. UVA, UNC, Clemson, GT, FSU, and Miami make up a block of 6 programs that should be doing whatever they can to break up the ACC and get themselves into the Big Ten.
@@johnwatsoniv384
"what exactly do you mean when you say the ACC would be worth "materially more" than the current Big 12 teams?"
I good faith estimate that the ACC has an average media value per team ~twice that of the new BIG12.
"I don't see the rest of the ACC being any more valuable than the Big 12 on a per school basis."
Really. The new BIG is the original BIG12 less its top half plus G5 backfill plus low value PAC remainders. The ACC is relatively intact.
" I'm also pretty sure that the difference between the ACC and Big 12 deals is less money than the difference between the Big Ten and SEC deals."
The ACC actual vale is much closer to the SEC/B1G than the new BIG12. This is evidenced by so many ACC teams being of SEC/B1G interest and none of the BIG12 are.
"It's also true that ESPN doesn't seem to have the money to throw at FSU and Clemson going to the SEC, especially because that move would tank the value of the ACC as a whole and mean that ESPN is likely overpaying for the remaining ACC teams until 2036."
None of this is likely true or that relevant to the question at hand.
Per the Clemson Insider the GOR is not keeping CU from leaving the ACC. CU is just waiting for a formal invitation from the SEC or Big 10. SC legislation has a law that grants sovereignty over all public universities that protects it from massive lawsuits.
Sovereign immunity generally applies to negligence, not an intentional breach of contract. I suspect that the State would have to "take" the contract and pay the fair market value of same. People need to be wary of what is written on message boards. Again, the best legal challenge would be on public policy.
No invite is coming until the GOR is resolved.
I’ve heard this already but even if it could be applied for Clemson, it couldn’t be applied to the SEC and trust me, the SEC isn’t going to put themselves into legal jeopardy with the ACC.
You missed the part in that same article where it ranked markets, that to me will be the most important
Backyard brawl, Holy war ,2of top15 rivalries ,black diamond trophy is great as well .
Unless you have some insider knowledge, I don't see Virginia going to the SEC. If they leave the ACC, I see them going to the B1G. UVA meets the criteria for that conference and it brings back the UVA / Maryland rivalry.
Virginia doesn't have nearly enough support to join the Big 10 or SEC
I don't think Notre Dame is moving anywhere new in the next 3 years or so. But, I think they eventually they will join a conference. If Stanford eventually joins the BIG-10, the BIG --? will contain all of Notre Dame's biggest rivals. As such, it will then have the power to tell those institutions not to schedule games with ND. No more football games between ND and it's rivals to air on TV will then lower NDs value and ability to negotiate independently.
What I am wondering is, ESPN has to know how much discontent there is with their current media rights deal and some schools are pushing very hard to get out, potentially rendering the conference a nonentity in college football. They may feel they like wanting to hold the conference to the terms of the contract but if the conference falls apart ultimately that is a loss for them. Why not nip this in the bud and negotiate with them on the condition all the teams stay. They would not get SEC or Big10 money but should be able to get at least as good or better money than the Big12. Now if ESPN wants to set fire to the ACC and transfer the top programs to the SEC so that makes more money and keeps the ACC alive on life support with the long-term deal then who knows. I do agree ESPN has a lot of sway in this situation so it really depends on their future plans.
The ACC's current deal is already better than the BIG12's. My working number is that the ACC has to get to ~85% of the new benchmark to prevent depletion.
The schools were happy when the signed the deal (just stupid to sign such a long deal imho).
Just can't see ESPN being happy to pay $30+m more for the same school program.
Pittsburgh belongs in the big 12 cause their rivalry with West virginia along with the Holy War on Thanksgiving weekend along with the Iron Bowl and Michigan Ohio state
PITT, L'VILLE & GATECH were the strongest "yes" votes on CAL/STANFORD, which suggests that they prefer an ACC rebuild over moving to the BIG12.
The backyard brawl is insanely underrated. Same thing with Xavier vs Cincinnati basketball
I love how Syracuse and Boston College are left out of all these models. You all have worse bias than ESPN.
Teams that make sense to join the SEC
Clemson and any school in the carolinas
Florida State and any school in Florida
NC State
UNC
Any school in Kentucky, any school in Virginia, and any school in Tennessee.
What ESPN wants......they will get it. By hook or crook.
ESPN is downsizing, so who knows.
Disney/ESPN are drowning. Sportscenter is an SNL sketch of what Sportscenter used to be. People are ditching cable and anyone can see highlights online without ESPN. ESPN isn't going to be a major force in sports for much longer if they keep heading the way they're heading.
@@encycl07pedia-LOL, right
Take Duke too for basketball. I know football's the main sport but Duke basketball is pretty relevant to have in your conference.
The issue with Duke is football & what it look’s like when broadcast on television. Duke averages about 9,000 in attendance.
I still think the BiG, assuming they go to 24, would be UVA, UNC, Duke (?), & either GT, or Mia. They would have to have disband the ACC. I think all are AAU. I don't see FSU in the B1g, could be wrong. They want ND and since the B1G has MBC, it would make sense to have more games on the network. Then FSU, Clem, NCSU, VT to SEC. IF ACC is gone then others go to the X12 or somewhere else.
I’m pretty sure that UNC comes over to the SEC along with NC State, Clemson and FSU. The others are good gets for the B1G. I have my doubts on GT. But we’ll see if they can garner an invite when the time comes.
The 2 best cultural fits for the BIG12 are VTech and NCSt by far. Passionate diehard fan bases like the BIG12. Pitt isn’t a match culturally but will be in the BIG12 if anything happens to the ACC.
Agree, but with Pitt, you bring in another rivalry game (with WVU).
Nothing like "Rivalry Weekend" after Thanksgiving.
FSU and Clemson to the Big Ten has one big problem- ESPN would still have access to the biggest guaranteed game per year for both schools
Clemson has 3 titles not 2.
2 in the playoff era.
@@vistatiger7493 Then why are FSU's titles listed when none of theirs came in the playoff era?
Clemson only has one legitimate title (2018). 1981 should've been vacated a long time ago for NCAA violations and 2016 was the most crooked, ref-assisted national championship* team I've ever seen. 14 points off blatant OPI just in the NCG game win* against Alabama by 1 point, and that was just in the NCG. Throughout the entire season the refs gave them several wins.
@@encycl07pedia-if you think the refs were biased towards Clemson against Alabama, you are extremely deluded lol
@@johnwatsoniv384 We're not talking about SEC refs, bud.
There is no interest in UConn or San Diego State. It's wait and see mode for the Big XII with the ACC
Maybe. But no one is informing the acc today. So the acc will survive has constituted for at least two more years.
Let’s do this all again next summer? lol.
That chart mid way through the video has Clemson with 2 national titles. They actually have 3, one in the 80s, and the two recent ones.
1981 I believe. They beat Ohio State in a bowl game where Woody Hayes infamously punched a Clemson player and got fired, and Clemson won it's first national title.
@@joeylawn36111 I didn't realize the Hayes incident and the NC were in the same season, but I do remember Woody blowing a gasket that time.
@@elliottcrews4997 It wasn't the same season. @joeylawn36111 was mistaken.
How is Utah (2-time defending Pac12 champ) rated as an 8 and Ok St rated as a 9?
Depressed Ginger, as a Georgia Bulldog fan and an SEC guy I really believe Clemson and FSU are going to the B1G with North Carolina and N.C. State. Those teams will regret that move in the long run IMO. The SEC will just add who we consider the best of what's left. It's not the quantity that matters, it's the quality.
Go Dawgs! In my opinion, UNC and NC State will come to the SEC when the time comes. They have no desire toward a northern conference that takes them away from their own geographical region.
If quality mattered to the SEC they would have kicked out the choke artists in Athens a long time ago. When COVID hit, UGA had 2 national titles, the most recent one being 40 years old. Vanderbilt, Kentucky, Missouri, TAMU, Ole Miss, Miss State, Arkansas, South Carolina... which of those programs are "quality"?
@@jansonroberts2616 The UNC admin prefers the B1G, while I suspect that the NCSTATE admin and fans prefer the SEC. A split is most likely.
Its neither. Its the money.
I see DI breaking into 3 different divisions, FCS, Power 3, and the so-called Group of 5 conferences. If NCAA forces 10 game conference schedules, what's the point of scheduling against cupcake teams?
UNC Duke rivalry might be done at this rate. UNC and NC State voted against Stanford and Cal but Duke voted in favor
Espn going thru financial difficulties, Disney just made a few cuts with their staff on espn. If Clemson and FS had a choice between Big10 or SEC, they are running to big 10.
4 billion in revenue in 2022. Estimated higher than 4 billion in 2023. Don’t believe everything you hear on the internet. Disney is loosing millions in movie productions and theme park losses but that’s not ESPN. ESPN is about to launch their 2 billion dollar ESPN Bet sports book platform. Estimates are that it will double the 4 billion per year revenue it’s already getting per year. ESPN is also about to bid on some NBA contracts. They aren’t broke. They did some restructuring on the tv networks but every major corporation in the US has been doing it.
@@jansonroberts2616 Exactly. Far from broke.
@@jansonroberts2616100%....Disney and ESPN are just fine, also the losses on their movies right now can largely be attributed to very high production costs because a lot of them were filmed under COVID restrictions. Indiana Jones, Little Mermaid, Ant Man 3 made money....just they needed more to offset high production costs.
@@jansonroberts2616 if they were doing so great why make all the cuts? And let's see if they give the ACC a deal similar to the deal Fox/CBS provided to the Big10. If Clemson and FSU thought that Espn could match what the Big10 had to offer, negotiation would be in silence and back door deals would have been made already. But no, they can't afford, at this time, to offer any deal, so knowing this Clemson and FSU wants out, now!
Ok, so I guess Elon Musk is broke because Tesla laid off 3500 workers. Right? Amazon is broke because they laid off 18000 workers. Right? You are equating lay offs to being broke or in financial trouble and that’s just not the case for a lot of companies. Would it shock you to know that Fox Sports had 100 layoffs? Are they broke too? Or maybe, just maybe, since ESPN lost the B1G ten content and since the PAC is down to its last year, maybe ESPN realized it needed to make some changes to better its financial structure going forward. I mean, they are about to get into the sports betting industry and they are about to begin contract bidding for some NBA games. They are about to be in a bidding war with all tv networks for the 2026 college football playoffs. You don’t think that would maybe trigger some restructuring to strengthen their bottom line?
The main draw for the B1G to get Stanford is academics & their attractiveness to ND w/ USC & Stanford, both big rivalries for them. Literally ZERO reason to add Cal. At this point the B1G will NOT add also rans like Cal w/ Stanford & NC State w/ UNC. Just not enough slots & the original members aren't going to want to dilute their payouts so that Cal can join.
The bay area schools offer the Big Ten, nothing in terms of football
8 "Realistic" adds to B12 (wishlist)
1 Miami
2 Pitt
3 Louisv.
4 NCS
5 VT
6 Duke
7 GT
8 Cus
The forum is nice and doesn't need no renovation IMO and I live in Memphis so my opinion is all that matters
Big 12. Louisville. Pitt Syracuse Duke . Virgina Tech and NC State be good if 6 teams needed or eanted .
I think would be a good for college football if we adapt a Champions League style schedule like in Europe, The Top 4 teams from each conference, Play each other during season last team standing win large pot for the conference, And all leagues split the TV money
ESPN has little incentive to force FSU and Clemson into the SEC. It would just mean the network is voluntarily paying more for broadcast rights they already possess.
Prevent depletion. Prevent depreciation. This story is now 2 years old.
It would make sense for Clemson, FSU, Miami & GT to go to the SEC, and split the rest of the ACC between the others. Geographically most of these recent expansions are utter nonsense and will devalue the college experience of sports that compete more than once a week and don't have football money. NCAA is negligent in responsible oversight here and athlete well being is the last concern.
It would make sense in what way? All of those schools would make significantly more money in the Big Ten, and all but Clemson would fit in way more with the Big Ten academically as well. The SEC doesn't stand to gain much from those teams either because they already have those 3 states within their footprint. Adding these teams would be a defensive move by the SEC to keep them away from the Big Ten. Clemson is probably the only one that fits in more with the SEC than the Big Ten culturally, but even with that they would be stupid to pick the SEC when they would make more money and have access to more big brands by joining the Big Ten. In 2024 the Big Ten will have 5 of the 10 winningest CFB programs vs only 3 for the SEC, and the current count is 4 to 1 in favor of the Big Ten. Any ACC team that ultimately is given the chance to join the Big Ten would be stupid to pass it up for any other available alternative.
No, ESPN wouldn't do that. Why would they, they already have them on the cheap in the ACC, why would they pay them more to move them to the SEC?
You don't know what you're talking about regarding Louisville. They have top facilities and they have a bigger following than you'd think. Not to mention, they have money too.
No way in hell does Miami goes to the SEC. There administration and faculty has insulted the SEC. They burned there bridge.
CBS is going to broadcast both SEC and Big Ten games and will have two Pac 12 teams this year
FSU is the truth 🔥🔥
We'll see
The truth in what they come to the sec thier going to be a punching bag 😂
@@jayhitmaan9993 Nooo 😂🤣
@@jayhitmaan9993 FSU hasn't lost to an SEC team in years. 2021 UF was the most recent and FSU was rebuilding. FSU was rebuilding last year and beat 2 SEC teams, including the SEC West champions.
That Memphis stadium is beautiful
It is not up to ESPN which teams are in the ACC, and which move to the SEC. The ACC owns the GOR, not ESPN. The ACC won't let any team just move on
The GOR covers home games not all games. If Florida St. And Clemson pay to leave the ACC the idea is that they will join the B1G and make the difference between what the B1G pays them and what the ACC pays. If it's a full B1G share it could be $50 million.
@@davidb3422
a) The ACC doesn't have to accept any offer from any team that wants to leave
b) The evidence suggests no B1G interest in either CLEMSON or FSU
Dennis Dodd has an article that says the B1G and SEC passed on FSU and Clemson for now. I think your comment has some merit. I continue to hear some say that if the GOR could be broken, it would have been by now. If FSU can get the financing lined up with a private equity company, maybe in a year or two, but that’s all just conjecture as well. We’ll see how it plays out.
a) If the ACC "just" lost the top 4, are replacements needed? Why wouldn't a smaller, regional 10-team Tier 2 ACC be better than the inefficient, diluted, national Tier 2 BIG12? UCONN + NAVY perhaps to keep the ND arrangement since the B1G/SEC at 20 each isn't enough to close the playoff.
b) Recent events suggest that NCSTATE will get an SEC invite with or without UNC.
c) PITT, L'VILLE & GATECH were the strongest "yes" votes on CAL/STANFORD, which suggests that they prefer an ACC rebuild over moving to the BIG12.
It almost feels like if the Non ACC power seven leave, the Phoenix of the Big East could Rise from the Ashes. Convensing West Virginia and Cincinnati to Return Home and grab the like of Memphis, Tulane, USF and potentially UCF on the Island. You get a new Big East in the ACC.
Divisions model for Simplicity
North
Boston College
Cincinnati
Louisville
Pittsburgh
Syracuse
UCONN
West Virginia
South
Duke
Georgia Tech
Memphis
Tulane
UCF/USF/Miami(Lottery level Longshot)/East Carolina
Virginia Tech (Part of the Seven but might convense to stay)
Wake Forest
@@jaredstivers A regional rebuilt ACC would be better than the national BIG12.
Espn cant force them....but if Clemson was to join, those Gamecocks would have a problem making the bowl or the new tournament if they start that
It’s silly for the Big Ten to add Stanford, they have fan support. I would rather see OSU and or WSU.
I think they will, if they think they will head to the BIG and FOX. I wouldn't be shocked at all.
ESPN doesn't even have the money to pay the SEC for a 9th conference game. The B1G already has the escalator clauses built into their new TV contract to add new members to drive it's value through the roof. Plus the B1G already generates more money for sports AND academics. The B1G has the academic resources and influence to help FSU and Clemson earn the AAU memberships they covet.
I don’t know why you stick with all the wrong moves. I’ve mentioned this multiple times to you now mate. Florida State, Clemson, and Miami would go to the Big Ten, not SEC.
If the Big Ten won't take Stanford, why would they take Duke? Unless it is a basketball play, Duke brings less to the table than Stanford.
DUKE is the closest P5 peer to STANFORD, is a much bigger brand in a revenue sport, and offers more synergies to existing and other likely adds.
Memphis has a lot of downsides that are hard to overlook, they are probably the fifth team as an option. If they got a game against UT every year that might help a bit.
They Should try to add Stanford and Cal if they can also get notre dame assuming FSU and Clemson are gone, then add AAU schools like Tulane, USF, and rice for academics
Why dilute more than necessary?
The ACC keeps moving forward. The best thing that the ACC can do right now is to come out of the gate winning.
FSU vs LSU is huge
UVA vs Tennessee
UNC vs South Carolina
Miami vs Texas A&M
Georgia Tech vs Ole Miss
VT vs Purdue
NC State vs Notre Dame
I (as an NC State Fan) don't want to join the SEC....I want to beat them
I realize that 13 years is a long time to ride this grant of rights out and it's certainly a long shot.
Given a few season the mega leagues might see some dissatisfied schools when they find themselves with .500 records season after season.
UVA doesn't stand a chance against UT
If you can’t beat-em, join-em! NC State and UNC will be in the SEC once all this plays out in 2035 or 2036.
I'm a lifetime ACC fan but a realist.....you're probably right. I'm referring to all of those games collectively. In the games listed I don't think the ACC team can be listed as even a touchdown favorite in any of them. I attended the FSU-LSU game in New Orleans last year....it was the greatest college football environment that I've even seen in person.
I'm just ready to get the season started
lol. The ACC teams are going to be losing most of those and FSU isn't going to be in the ACC much longer.
Clemson also has Notre Dame. In any case most of these are losses, and all of them could be. They are favored to win your list exactly zero by FPI except UNC/USC (Clemson has a higher FPI slightly than ND though). Best shots are ND @ Clemson, UNC/USC, FSU/LSU, A&M @ Miami. If we win all four of those we've probably done all we can as a conference beyond hoping for one upset among the rest.
BIG10 Next plan of action aggressively seeking Clemson, FSU, North Carolina, North Carolina State,
1. Duke, Wake Forest, Syracuse, and Boston College should all go independent in football. Form an alliance with Notre Dame and Army for football scheduling where they all play each other. Notre Dame, Duke, Wake Forest, Syracuse, and Boston College go Big East in all other sports.
2. FSU, Clemson, Georgia Tech, and NC State go to the SEC.
3. UNC, UVA, Va Tech, and Miami go Big 10.
4. Pitt and Louisville go to the Big 12.
Makes no sense to abandon the ACC branding and other intangibles to go that route,
I think if you swap GT and VaTech you're on to something here. VT is more of an SEC school and GT is an AAU member and adds ATL/GA to the B1G footprint.
@@MountainWreck Very true. It's a huge agricultural and engineering school. Plus it's also one of the senior military colleges. It's just like Texas A&M. NC State is a big agricultural school as well.
The only way GT gets an invite to the SEC is if the SEC throws caution to the wind and adds every single ACC University. Even then, GT would have to sign some guarantees. First, they bulldoze that horrible place they call a stadium and contract the Mississippi State engineers to come in and build a real stadium. Second, they have to pay UGA a big brother tax, ten percent of their media money for ten years, sounds about right. In return, UGA agrees to mentor their little brother on the intricate details of building a quality athletic program with quality facilities.
Take it or leave it. 😬 Go Dawgs!
Miami clem VA and fsu to the sec. makes the most sense. and as a Gator fan. we don't want the big 10 in our backyard
UVA/UNC are likely packaged. Did you mean VATECH? The SEC is more likely to take a VA and NC school over MIAMI.
@@tarheel7406 no Virginia. I can see that though
@@natedunker123 Yeah, if UNC is going B1G, so is UVA. The reverse is feasible.
Anway, it's relatively well established that the SEC will go hard for UVA/UNC and then back that up with CLEMSON/FSU for a very effective firewall against B1G expansion south.
@@tarheel7406 that's where problems arise package deals. but we shall see
@@natedunker123 UVA/UNC is a rather safe package, while CLEMSON/FSU may not be. Unlikely that the SEC gets all 4 anyway.
Where exactly is ESPN going to get the money to pay Clemson and FSU twice what they're already getting to be in the SEC instead though? And are they gonna be wanting to pay the remaining ACC teams as though FSU and Clemson are still there? Even if FSU and Clemson start with reduced shares in the SEC we're talking about money that ESPN doesn't have to throw around. Are the other SEC teams gonna take a financial hit to put up the money to add those schools? That would put them all even further behind the Big Ten, whose members made $9 million more last year than the SEC teams did. The Big Ten could add those schools right now with zero additional money from Fox and still be making as much or more per school compared to the SEC. Fox also seems to actually have the resources to help the Big Ten expand more, where ESPN can only help the SEC by making the ACC buyout smaller for those teams. The Big Ten should sit at 18 teams until it's able to get aggressive and snag all the ACC teams it wants.
"And are they gonna be wanting to pay the remaining ACC teams as though FSU and Clemson are still there?"
Yes. The ACC's deal is already discounted down to a Tier 2 level, that it would take heavy depletion for the value to drop below the contract rater.
"Are the other SEC teams gonna take a financial hit to put up the money to add those schools?"
Probably not for CLEMSON & FSU since the B1G isn't likely to have an interest.
@@tarheel7406 I don't know exactly how much the ACC makes per school, but I've seen something around $40 million which places them third among the conferences in TV money. Taking away the two biggest football programs in one swoop would definitely drop that value significantly, like into the Big 12's range, which means ESPN would be paying extra money for those schools for the next 14 seasons. They'd also have to pay more than that to FSU and Clemson for those schools to join the SEC, because what's the point of leaving for the same money? ESPN probably wants to make this happen, but I don't think they actually can make it happen right now.
@@johnwatsoniv384 My only point relative to your last response is that the ACC's current deal is heavily discounted, so it wouldn't necessarily drop after CLEMSON/FSU leave. The departures would reduce ESPN's excess profits. In other words, the average value per ACC team would drop but likely not below what ESPN is paying.
The new BIG12 is the bottom half of the original BIG12 + dilutive backfill + the neutral 4Cs, and is worth ~$30M per. A 12.5 team ACC with no dilutive backfill should be worth more on average.
@@tarheel7406 but the reason the Big 12 is diluted is the fact that it lost Texas and Oklahoma. If the Big 12 still had those two programs it would be worth just as much if not more than the ACC in sports because of how valuable those two football programs are. The Big 12 also got the best possible teams from the non-P5 field. You can't tell me that Cincinnati is not equivalent to Louisville in terms of value, for example. The ACC has added teams of the same value that the Big 12 added last year and this year to get to its existing membership. The ACC's advantage would be that its smaller teams are still in more populous states along the Atlantic Coast where the Big 12 has a good number of its teams from smaller states, but even then, they cover a much larger geographic area, and I would argue that most of the leftover ACC schools don't have as passionate of fanbases for football as the Big 12 teams do. The ACC isn't going to be able to backfill like the Big 12 was able to, especially because even after losing its 2 biggest football powers it will still have schools that the Big Ten and SEC want. The Big 12 has positioned itself perfectly to be the third wheel long term and stick around by consolidating the position that the conferences it was built out of have always occupied relative to the Big Ten and SEC. The ACC is gonna be fine in the short term if it only loses Clemson and FSU, but once that happens it becomes inevitable that they lose more, because they'll still have teams on the table that the big dogs want. How much money do you think the ACC can command per school if it loses UNC and Miami along with FSU and Clemson, whether to different conferences or the same conference? That's all it would take for them to go from staying afloat to having the good teams get gobbled up in a matter of a few weeks while the leftovers are stuck looking for a new, worse home. That's how it happened for the PAC.
Espn cannot let FSU CLEMSON do anything. ACC schools will not let them leave without paying a massive price. The other schools in ACC have no motivation to allow them out on the cheap.
The likely remainders have an incentive to start the backfill earlier with more options. Also assures some compensation rather than risk getting nothing after litigation or 2036.
I have a feeling certain schools will try to block the addition of any new teams into the ACC until they have a ticket out. That said, letting Clemson and FSU go next year with a discount on the payout would immediately leave enough yes votes to add any schools into the conference. Perhaps a trade
@@Doc_Boots Any release from the GOR requires a unanimous vote, and any dilutive expansion would make the GOR voidable for any objector.
@@tarheel7406 in that case, add any and every team to the ACC. Add half of the FCS. If it can void the Grant of Rights
@@Doc_Boots The likely remainders don't want to void the grant of rights, and only objectors to expansion would get the voidability. So FSU can't vote "yes" on a dilutive expansion, and then use that to challenge the GOR.
This is why TX/OK had to be kept financially whole while bringing in the +4 early. The BIG12 dealt with that be releasing TX/OK early. They had abstained on what schools were added but not on the date of the additions.
Why would they want Louisville over Duke
ND isn't moving until the 2026 playoff renegotiation. I also think they'll be forced to move once every conference goes to 10 conference games and the top teams stop scheduling them. NBC won't be getting a return for their money, and they'll have a hard time getting 1 of 6/7 at-large berths playing a soft schedule.
As things stand, ND can't move until 2036. So how do you see an earlier move happening?
@@tarheel7406 "As things stand now...."
Now isn't 2026 is it?
@@heartbreak25 2026 isn't 2036 either. So again, how do you see an earlier move happening?
@@tarheel7406 #1 The multiplier effect of losses starts this season. A $30 million loss between ACC schools vs B1G/SEC becomes $60M next year, $90M the year after, and so on that will never be recovered by ACC schools unless donors plug the gap. That's $390M in losses based simply on the TV deals signed today. The B1G and SEC both renew again before 2036 so that loss will easily eclipse $500M per ACC team over a 13-year period. There's a diminishing return in trying to avoid exit fees and legal bills after 5 years. Unlike FSU, ND is listed by name in the B1G contract so the networks, especially NBC, are likely to subsidize their move. Plus the B1G has over $1.5B in cash reserves to help as well.
#2 It was just reported the SEC and B1G both intend to take more control over the CFP starting as early as the 2024 agreement. Why would they want more power if they don't plan to use it? ND is on record saying they'll remain independent as long as they have a viable path to the playoffs and the revenue disparity isn't too great. The new playoff structure won't favor either for ND.
#3 ND needs to play a competitive schedule to justify earning 1 of 6/7 playoff positions over conference teams. They also need it to justify whatever their new NBC contract because ND vs. Navy isn't worth $75M a year. PSU has publicly said they're not scheduling any more elite nonconference teams while playing a 9-game conference schedule. Everyone anticipates that'll become the norm as the SEC, B1G, and Big 12 ramp up to 10 conference games.
Those are the three main reasons ND will either be a full member of a conference by 2036.
@@heartbreak25 Lots of rambling there. Again, how will ND escape its legal entanglements with the ACC circa 2026, which was your claim as I read it.
Stanford and Cal I'm the ACC doesn't mix well
Why would ESPN have the muscle to force schools to change conferences?
They don't, ignorant fans just assume ESPN owns the ACC's GOR which isn't true. The ACC owns their own GOR and ESPN, the TV Network, has a TV contract with them.
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$....that's why!
@@roris5882That's what I thought. I'm just an ordinary Euro, so these types of things would be even more unthinkable for us on the eastern shore of the pond.
@@billbixby5508 But ESPN and their owner Mickey Mouse are broke. ESPN couldn't even afford to pay the SEC for a 9th conference game.
@@roris5882 If ESPN can't meet its good faith contractual obligations during the nest ACC "look in", that is the time to declare a breach and litigate the GOR. The fear is that FSU will foolishly file prematurely.
Entertaining but after watching a few other channels this guy is just guessing based on some really biased tweets.
The ACC should not be defensive but very aggressive about adding other schools to the conference. Tap into the Tennessee market by adding Memphis, Louisiana market with the likes of Tulane, the Texas market through SMU, UTSA or North Texas, get back at Maryland by adding Navy. Forget about California and Stanford unless Notre Dame decides to join.
The Mag 7 are not approving dilutive schools or "no" votes on dissolution. They would have to be released before the ACC can backfill.
lol. North Texas? Even North Texas students don't care about Mean Green football.
The ACC should be disbanded. They destroyed the Big East for greed and have destroyed themselves through greed, nepotism, and incompetence.
@@encycl07pedia- What P5 shouldn't disband by this measure?
@@tarheel7406 The B1G, SEC, and Big 12 so far aren't incompetent. I don't know of any nepotism affecting their media deals, either.
@@encycl07pedia-
a) Neither has been the ACC. Sometimes doing no harm when pushed to "do something" is the hardest thing.
b) Some loyalty to a long-time regional broadcaster with Tier 3 content is not a crime.
c) The BIG12 could do no harm once TX/OK left, and relying on the mistakes of others isn't exactly great.
You will have to do better.
AAC makes more money than the MWC
So, if you want to develop a number chart it's BB 1x, football 5x, revenue NCAA titles .5x (any title after 1970), other NCAA titles .2x . Television viewership 1-10 (x10). Otherwise this chart is absurd and I can put some hilarious teams on there... base it on actual value athletically and to a television deal.
Academics on -5(boise) to 10 (stanford, rice) scale. Research 1 (R2) to 10 (top 20 total overall expenditure) scale, 1 point each 100 million, +5 for AAU (all 10's are AAU already, almost everyone down to 500 million in research per year is).
Even a good faith base calculation would have to be adjusted for synergies, relative value, special factors, etc. on a case by case value.
@tarheel7406 yes, markets and big cities matter, for travel too. Tickets to and hotels (severely jacked on game weekends) in Tallahassee are a lot more expensive then to Atlanta or Boston regardless of the distance. Cheaper to fly to the bay area from Atlanta then it is from Atlanta to Tallahassee (though that one is bussable).
@@benjaminhawkes6693 I'm thinking more culture, brand, "fit", atypical concerns rather than logistics, but I'm sure that is also considered.
There's a BIG12 tuber that thinks that the P2 would only be interested in CLEMSON, FSU & MIAMI. Makes sense from a P5 and BIG12 perspective, but he can't see from a future P2 world perspective or those of the SEC and B1G. Consider that OKSTATE is No. 2 on the list presented at the 8:00 mark, but where would it rank based on the wants, needs and preferences of the SEC or B1G?
@@tarheel7406 I've read a lot of talk about osu brand and viewership. I really don't know what to think except it has a lot of downside. I realize it has a bit of football success and some historic round orange ball success but outside of that is a micro market in a small state behind a far larger brand in the state. I've heard they (osu) will refuse to play bedlam now. Without that association the current value drops and the long term value will decline. I don't know if there's much room for second brands in a small state in a p2 world. Maybe there is but I can only think of USC and Clemson. I tend to think of Mississippi state as dead weight value wise.
@@benjaminhawkes6693 That's kind of the point. I consider OKSTATE a tentpole of the new BIG12, I was familiar with the brand, and clould have likely names as a member of that conference before this story started, yet in a P2 world.....
Sec should not let the big ten in the south
The BiG 10 adds Stanford 🌲 and Cal 🐻 that gets you to 20 and then you go shopping 🛒 in the ACC Syracuse, Notre Dame 🍀 Boston college and Pitt
.
BiG 10 has wanted Notre Dame 🍀 for years Syracuse is a 🏀 powerhouse Syracuse helps Rutgers with travel Pitt is an archrival for Penn State and Boston college and Notre Dame is alike Catholic
These conferences are too big and they all suck.
Miami has way more National championships then 2…. They won 6 in football and 3 in baseball
I believe it’s 5 in football (should be 6 considering the robbery in 2002), and 4 for baseball. Either way you are correct.
Miami(FL) doesn't have 6 titles in football. LMFAO!
@@dannycolucci-jt4yv OSU won that game 17-14 in regulation if you want to cry foul. 21 years later and you babies are still crying about a legit Ohio State win.
First! Alright so can someone run me up to speed on all this college football shit going on
I think florida state would be better off in the big 10..
Both FSU & CLEMSON JOIN THE SEC THEY WILL FIND IT HARD TO HAVE WINNING SEASONS
They'll have winning seasons, but they won't be able to mop up scrubs like they do in the ACC.
@@BB-uu9oo lol. The SEC has their share of scrubs.
@@BB-uu9oo FSU beat the SEC West champions in a rebuilding year last season. The SEC is full of scrubs with better brand names.
I think Memphis will fit in the SEC better than the ACC Memphis have better rivalries with teams and the SEC like Vanderbilt Ole Miss Mississippi State Tennessee Arkansas rivals this already
When I lived in Memphis (son is Memphis alum), their fans really had a serious rivalry with UT. Memphis beat UT while I lived there, and a friend of mine wore a cap with the score on it. Memphis would definitely fit into the SEC better than some of the current teams.
MEMPHIS is not getting a Tier 1 invite. It will likely be a +1 to one of the Tier 2s that result from this realignment.
NC i
Miami will not be in SEC
Let's hope not.....FSU is being a bunch of whinny babies right now....nobody wants anything to do with that.
They belong in the B1G with the other snooty elites.
@@roris5882 I am rather certain that FSU's amateur and loud way of handling this matter has not impressed the B1G or SEC.
@@tarheel7406 They won't have anything to cry about, accept their own bad decision making involving their own team, when they are making the big bucks.
@@roris5882 The evidence suggest no B1G interest in FSU, and FSU is a lower priority for the SEC. Someone wrote recently that FSU may now be considering the BIG12 based on some radio show discussion.
These tales are hilarious
Big 12 should go after Pitt, NCST, Louisville, &Miami...rn don't wait