What would all of those cards even do!? Red and Blue blasts are paired opposites, not a full cycle. Veil of Summer does the same as Autumn Veil but draws a card, so what do the other two seasons do? Draw 2 cards? Again, it's not a cycle
THANK YOU FOR TALKING AB MINDBREAK TRAP!! I had been talking about this is on Reddit posts for wishlists in 2024 or if it somehow made it into MH3. $75 for regular and $200+ for foil is insane for something that’s modern legal already and not on the reserve list.
2 mana double green pips creture- Whenever a player taps a creature for mana: draw a card. Veil of winter 1 green instant- Remove all blue spells from the stack. Print a duplicate of food chain on a cresture so it can be tutored, and also print a busted green food chain outlet commander.
I would love to see "partner-optional" Commanders - where they're ultra low-powered, but it will give you the option to partner with another Commander/Legendary Creature that doesn't have that exact text. This would finally break the mono-colored curse of many commanders that could reign hell on the cookie-cutter Tymna / Kraum setups that seems to be destined to be the ONLY decks we'll ever see. It'll also break the creative lull that Matthew mentioned because it will allow for a nearly unlimited amount of options and strategies by spanning the entire catalog of solo legendary creatures.
I would like to see background equipment that can be used with the background commanders that we have and have them print some new background commanders.
As an EDH player who likes the cEDH content and analysis, i found that partner tends to be my least favorite text on a card; mainly because it takes the deckbuilding restrictions and throws them out the window since you can just pair with the generically good partners for the colors (Tymna, Kraum, etc). "Friends Forever" / "Partner With" / "Doctors Companion" are all more interesting in my eyes because these cards are restricted in who they are paired with, and thus the way you build your deck might change, rather than just playing pure straight value piles. Regardless of my casual partner thoughts, thanks for putting out my favorite EDH podcast; hoping to see Rhystic hit the ban list because I just dont like paying the one.
I absolutely am a MUCH bigger fan of those new versions of partner. They allow them way more options, and I think how much people like broken stuff often leads to those designs not being as loved, but I definitely think they've led to much better designs. Love to hear that you enjoy the podcast! Thanks so much.
Everyone is already gravitating towards those decks though. Also, Rhystic being over powered is only one part of it that makes it bannable. it also has way worse play patterns than any draw engine in a Command zone that inherently hurt more strategies than cards like Tymna or Kraum themselves do. Kraum specifically could have an argument though as similarly an issue and maybe the biggest enabler or the types of decks you're concerned about.
It's tricky to cleanly answer a Rhystic, especially since doing something like tutoring for the best answer often either destroys your own turn or draws them two cards, if not more. There's a few design ideas I have for it that may be shown in an upcoming video though.
it's kinda funny hearing the complaints about red not getting new powerful cards since dockside/breach on the day that a new birgi-esque effect was previewed with Crime Novelist
Check it out; Green Junk card; Dismantling Ouphe GG1 Creature GT; destroy target artifact w/ mana value less than or equal to this card’s power. Create a junk token 2/2
In a format that parts from the premise of beating 3 opponents at the same time, it’s impossible to expect 1-for-1 effects to carry you the distance. Every good card is innately trying to let you keep up with your opponent, be it in tempo, mana or card advantage, as by default you start the game 14 cards down compared to your opponents. Rhystic and dockside just bridge the gap.
From your perspective, if any of your opponents win, you lose by default, so you play a 1v1 against an opponent with 21 starting hand and 3 land drops per turn.
my only issue with a rhystic ban is its a metric ton being lifted off storm/combo deck’s backs. against those decks rhystic is practically a RoL effect preventing a go-off. therefore i could see rhystic being one of two or three cards to be banned, not alone.
The thing is that that also opens the door for actual Rule of Law and other similar stax effects to have a purpose in the format again. I would rather stax pieces actually be stax than be advantage engines.
Enchantment 2U: whenever a player casts a spell, stop the game and ask them to decide . Then remind other players a trigger occurred and draw triggers go , then draw a card. Then cast a spell and repeat step one until the whole game is 🙄😞
They would never ban rhystic solely because of the reprint equity that it holds. They can throw it into a horrible set like jumpstart and itll get some people to buy a set they otherwise wouldnt touch.
pithing needle but for triggered abilities. Thats what I want for MTG christmas. Name a permanent, triggered abilities of cards with the name chosen don't trigger. 1 mana artifact.
Two things the rhystic ban is stupid and secondly it’s not that people don’t want their commander seat to grow. They don’t want everybody copying their original deck list.
To me , cEDH is more like a philosophy of deckbuilding and table etiquette- rather than a ‘format’ . I hope to see more Commander Tournaments as we enter this new era of Magic together . PS Ban Rhystic 😊
Great episode guys. Seems like y’all left a lot of topics open for discussion later. Banning Rhystic Study should be apparent. That might require people to read data though 😂, or at least watch the entirety of your videos.
concerning flash i could see it being unbanned because you got borne upon a wind+sac outlet which kinda does the same... interaction was never heavier played in this format so it would be fine imo.
Spiderman is very white Hulk is quite Gruul Wolverine is probly golgari. Ironman is probly izzeet, but tony has alot of black alined propertys like ego, ambition and some selfishness.
If the player going first doesn't get to draw, then the person who wins the dice roll would just start going second. The player that goes first has to draw a card or otherwise you have an unfair advantage by choosing to go second and thus messing up other people's plans.
We don't even decide going first by die roll at most events now, your order is decided before the game and going first doesn't give you the option to change the seating.
@@LemorasCards Alright, you got a point there. So were you thinking that the first seed would still go first, since going second with 8 cards is better than going first with 7? Seems kinda unfair.
Dumbest examples: Rhystic played on table with new players - no one pays- Rhystic player easily wins . 🥳 congrats. 2: Rhystic played with Rhystic at competitive table , each spell is two triggers plus orcish plus nivmizzet plus oppo agent- a literal nightmare . It’s a zero skill card that’s auto in every blue deck with zero downside
@@tab021 I think those cards better represent options being afforded to players, whereas Rhystic is one of the few proactively powerful cards that's main play pattern is in how restrictive it is to gameplay, both in a turn by turn perspective, and as we've seen, in a larger way that it warps archetypes and what decks/colors are viable.
@@LemorasCardsif you ban rhystic study, you have to ban thassa’s Oracle and consultation and hermit Druid and dual caster mage and devoted Druid and sol ring and mana crypt and food chain and a bunch of others.
Genuine question from a new player: Why is Rhystic Study specified as ban worthy when it feels like dockside is just as powerful? It seems a little biased when there other cards out there like esper sentinel, mystic remora, smothering tithe, sylvan library, that follow the same vein of being lower cost advantage engines.
Dockside is absolutely at a tier of power that warrants ban discussions. The way that games currently play out, though, it's one of the few cards that helps push players through the long midrange grindy games that are enabled by the cheap advantage engines. I think Rhystic specifically warps games in a way differently than the other engines. Mystic is on a timer/resource intensive and doesn't hit all cards, Esper is similar but has a more reasonable once per turn clause, Smothering Tithe being a relatively expensive card that generates mana has made it often not good enough, and Sylvan library at this point is more or less unplayed. Rhystic punishes game actions too ubiquitously at too high of a rate, and at this point is the face card of the format even though it isn't technically a wincon. I think a dockside ban post rhystic ban would be reasonable, but right now a dockside ban to me would make the game almost unbearable.
@@LemorasCards I’m assuming a lot of this comes from the EDH perspective so it makes more sense. Realistically I feel both study and dockside should be hit on a list together and not at different times, if at all. Thank you for the insight, great video.
Dockside makes treasures, Rhystic takes over a game until it is destroyed- and in multiples, it’s very annoying . It adds a decision point to every single spell which in cEDH is a lot
Not a huge fan of the way you kind of condescendingly put down people disagreeing with you. Yes you are working with data but people can interpret this data in different ways. Much of it is complex enough to have multiple interpretations. Some people do state their thoughts in ways that disagree with the data and not the take though. That’s just misspeaking most of the time though.
When I said the "it's okay to be wrong" I was just poking fun at the Flash stuff, which is purely hypothetical since it'll never be unbanned and also something I don't have a strong opinion about anyways. The data talk is just a bit of a pet peeve since most of those comments we get are pretty well answered if you just watch the full video or at least the intro. We don't pretend to be the final say on what the data means. We just like presenting the data and aren't big on moving the goalposts and ignoring results to support our opinions.
Honestly why don’t they experiment more and just ban something for a little while and unban it. I guess it might make people on edge who invested who bought those cards but who cares let’s keep the format different and interesting.
How about we stop complaining about a competitive card in a competitive format... go play casual if competitive cards bother you... cries for 5 plus minutes about study but doesn't even mention dockside..okay sure thing bud
How so? Instead of just saying it's a bad take, which you're completely entitled to, explain your reasoning. It's just an opinion, just like the one you just gave. Instead, we expanded our thoughts vs "bad take" with no context.
47:58 Really need the answers to blue draw effects to not be printed in blue..
I want green, black and white elemental blasts! And I agree that Veil of Winter and Veil of Spring would be sick!
What would all of those cards even do!?
Red and Blue blasts are paired opposites, not a full cycle.
Veil of Summer does the same as Autumn Veil but draws a card, so what do the other two seasons do? Draw 2 cards?
Again, it's not a cycle
I don’t necessarily want a Rhystic ban but I do want us to have more card draw hate like Bowmaster and Notion Thief type effects
THANK YOU FOR TALKING AB MINDBREAK TRAP!! I had been talking about this is on Reddit posts for wishlists in 2024 or if it somehow made it into MH3. $75 for regular and $200+ for foil is insane for something that’s modern legal already and not on the reserve list.
Yeah, MBT desperately needs to get a reprint!
2 mana double green pips creture-
Whenever a player taps a creature for mana: draw a card.
Veil of winter 1 green instant-
Remove all blue spells from the stack.
Print a duplicate of food chain on a cresture so it can be tutored, and also print a busted green food chain outlet commander.
I would love to see "partner-optional" Commanders - where they're ultra low-powered, but it will give you the option to partner with another Commander/Legendary Creature that doesn't have that exact text. This would finally break the mono-colored curse of many commanders that could reign hell on the cookie-cutter Tymna / Kraum setups that seems to be destined to be the ONLY decks we'll ever see. It'll also break the creative lull that Matthew mentioned because it will allow for a nearly unlimited amount of options and strategies by spanning the entire catalog of solo legendary creatures.
I would like to see background equipment that can be used with the background commanders that we have and have them print some new background commanders.
You might not enjoy that as much as you think. So many powerfull 3 colour commanders who would become ridiculous with access to a 4th colour!
I mean Kinnan splashing red for Breach and Dockside would end the format
@@Naren25 my rograhk thrasios deck is Kinnan with red splash.
As an EDH player who likes the cEDH content and analysis, i found that partner tends to be my least favorite text on a card; mainly because it takes the deckbuilding restrictions and throws them out the window since you can just pair with the generically good partners for the colors (Tymna, Kraum, etc). "Friends Forever" / "Partner With" / "Doctors Companion" are all more interesting in my eyes because these cards are restricted in who they are paired with, and thus the way you build your deck might change, rather than just playing pure straight value piles.
Regardless of my casual partner thoughts, thanks for putting out my favorite EDH podcast; hoping to see Rhystic hit the ban list because I just dont like paying the one.
I absolutely am a MUCH bigger fan of those new versions of partner. They allow them way more options, and I think how much people like broken stuff often leads to those designs not being as loved, but I definitely think they've led to much better designs.
Love to hear that you enjoy the podcast! Thanks so much.
The comments are hilarious. Love the content homie. Keep up the goodness in 2024
Haha, thank you!
Glimpse of nature on a creature is Beast Whisperer :)
I interpreted it as a one mana creature that does that effect on etb. Or better yet that you could sacrifice for that effect.
Rhystic bans don't help decks that don't have card draw in the command zone. So now everyone gravitates to tymna kraum? Kraum tevesh?
Everyone is already gravitating towards those decks though. Also, Rhystic being over powered is only one part of it that makes it bannable. it also has way worse play patterns than any draw engine in a Command zone that inherently hurt more strategies than cards like Tymna or Kraum themselves do. Kraum specifically could have an argument though as similarly an issue and maybe the biggest enabler or the types of decks you're concerned about.
I am over bans. Could we just get better answers printed instead please Wizards?
It's tricky to cleanly answer a Rhystic, especially since doing something like tutoring for the best answer often either destroys your own turn or draws them two cards, if not more.
There's a few design ideas I have for it that may be shown in an upcoming video though.
@@LemorasCards they were close with Bowmaster, they just missed the line of text that required the damage to go at the player drawing the cards.
@@mandielyn0416that card is called Underworld Dreams
Curious on your guys take on the new Crime Novelist as the new hotness in red. Worse than Birgi? New staple? Only playable with dockside?
Seems like some decks might want it, but I expect it to stay in the lower color lists.
it's kinda funny hearing the complaints about red not getting new powerful cards since dockside/breach on the day that a new birgi-esque effect was previewed with Crime Novelist
Looks cool, but probably not gonna show up much in cEDH beyond some lower color lists
Check it out; Green Junk card;
Dismantling Ouphe
GG1
Creature
GT; destroy target artifact w/ mana value less than or equal to this card’s power. Create a junk token
2/2
In a format that parts from the premise of beating 3 opponents at the same time, it’s impossible to expect 1-for-1 effects to carry you the distance. Every good card is innately trying to let you keep up with your opponent, be it in tempo, mana or card advantage, as by default you start the game 14 cards down compared to your opponents. Rhystic and dockside just bridge the gap.
From your perspective, if any of your opponents win, you lose by default, so you play a 1v1 against an opponent with 21 starting hand and 3 land drops per turn.
my only issue with a rhystic ban is its a metric ton being lifted off storm/combo deck’s backs. against those decks rhystic is practically a RoL effect preventing a go-off. therefore i could see rhystic being one of two or three cards to be banned, not alone.
The thing is that that also opens the door for actual Rule of Law and other similar stax effects to have a purpose in the format again. I would rather stax pieces actually be stax than be advantage engines.
I actually think the fact that red cards either suck or are completely broken is very much on color :p
Idea for Red card 1or 2 drop damage amplifier? Thoughts???
Enchantment 2U: whenever a player casts a spell, stop the game and ask them to decide . Then remind other players a trigger occurred and draw triggers go , then draw a card. Then cast a spell and repeat step one until the whole game is 🙄😞
They would never ban rhystic solely because of the reprint equity that it holds. They can throw it into a horrible set like jumpstart and itll get some people to buy a set they otherwise wouldnt touch.
pithing needle but for triggered abilities. Thats what I want for MTG christmas. Name a permanent, triggered abilities of cards with the name chosen don't trigger. 1 mana artifact.
Kinda surprised we don't have that yet!
@@LemorasCards right!
Rhystic Study wouldn't be so great if players paid the one, but typically they don't.
SCG Con cEDH Cincinnati decklists are posted ! They posted one deck 😊.
>banning rhystic
Scrub take.
>not wanting Rhystic banned
Scrub take.
See how little that contributed to any actual conversation about anything?
Two things the rhystic ban is stupid and secondly it’s not that people don’t want their commander seat to grow. They don’t want everybody copying their original deck list.
To me , cEDH is more like a philosophy of deckbuilding and table etiquette- rather than a ‘format’ . I hope to see more Commander Tournaments as we enter this new era of Magic together . PS Ban Rhystic 😊
Yeah it's more along the lines of "precons only" than a real format. It's just a way that people agree to play the game.
Eww no, bans are lame, that's one of the things I like best about Commander is that things are rarely banned.
Great episode guys. Seems like y’all left a lot of topics open for discussion later. Banning Rhystic Study should be apparent. That might require people to read data though 😂, or at least watch the entirety of your videos.
Thank you!
concerning flash i could see it being unbanned because you got borne upon a wind+sac outlet which kinda does the same...
interaction was never heavier played in this format so it would be fine imo.
Spiderman is very white
Hulk is quite Gruul
Wolverine is probly golgari.
Ironman is probly izzeet, but tony has alot of black alined propertys like ego, ambition and some selfishness.
I am probably just traumatized by the flash hulk era but I don’t want it unbanned just so I don’t have ptsd 😂
Very understandable. Letting it stay buried is fine with me
I think they should have proxy’s but limit them to 10-20 max.
What you think of a proxy for like tabernacle, chains of mephisto? Would u feel some type of way about that
*Heartwood Storyteller EXISTS* .....and these guys wanna ban Rhystic Study?? WTF?!?!
If the player going first doesn't get to draw, then the person who wins the dice roll would just start going second. The player that goes first has to draw a card or otherwise you have an unfair advantage by choosing to go second and thus messing up other people's plans.
We don't even decide going first by die roll at most events now, your order is decided before the game and going first doesn't give you the option to change the seating.
@@LemorasCards Alright, you got a point there.
So were you thinking that the first seed would still go first, since going second with 8 cards is better than going first with 7? Seems kinda unfair.
Can white get a spirit guide?
I’m not gonna tolerate the reckless handling slander 😤
cEDH isn’t a format!
You. 👏Need. 👏Your. 👏Own. 👏Banned. 👏List.👏
Dumbest examples: Rhystic played on table with new players - no one pays- Rhystic player easily wins . 🥳 congrats. 2: Rhystic played with Rhystic at competitive table , each spell is two triggers plus orcish plus nivmizzet plus oppo agent- a literal nightmare . It’s a zero skill card that’s auto in every blue deck with zero downside
A major unban
Thumbs down for the Rhystic ban.
The engagement spreads my propaganda even further 😈
If rhystic gets banned, might as well do sol ring, mana crypt, jeweled lotus, and all the other "standard" pieces, hell even the one ring.
@@tab021 I think those cards better represent options being afforded to players, whereas Rhystic is one of the few proactively powerful cards that's main play pattern is in how restrictive it is to gameplay, both in a turn by turn perspective, and as we've seen, in a larger way that it warps archetypes and what decks/colors are viable.
@@LemorasCardsif you ban rhystic study, you have to ban thassa’s Oracle and consultation and hermit Druid and dual caster mage and devoted Druid and sol ring and mana crypt and food chain and a bunch of others.
@@HeWhoisHim. I don't think those are related
Necromancy reprint ✅
finally!
Genuine question from a new player:
Why is Rhystic Study specified as ban worthy when it feels like dockside is just as powerful?
It seems a little biased when there other cards out there like esper sentinel, mystic remora, smothering tithe, sylvan library, that follow the same vein of being lower cost advantage engines.
Dockside is absolutely at a tier of power that warrants ban discussions. The way that games currently play out, though, it's one of the few cards that helps push players through the long midrange grindy games that are enabled by the cheap advantage engines.
I think Rhystic specifically warps games in a way differently than the other engines. Mystic is on a timer/resource intensive and doesn't hit all cards, Esper is similar but has a more reasonable once per turn clause, Smothering Tithe being a relatively expensive card that generates mana has made it often not good enough, and Sylvan library at this point is more or less unplayed.
Rhystic punishes game actions too ubiquitously at too high of a rate, and at this point is the face card of the format even though it isn't technically a wincon. I think a dockside ban post rhystic ban would be reasonable, but right now a dockside ban to me would make the game almost unbearable.
@@LemorasCards I’m assuming a lot of this comes from the EDH perspective so it makes more sense. Realistically I feel both study and dockside should be hit on a list together and not at different times, if at all.
Thank you for the insight, great video.
@jonathanocampo8328 thank you! Hitting them together or Rhystic and then Dockside is fine with me, I think Dockside alone though wouldn't be great
Dockside makes treasures, Rhystic takes over a game until it is destroyed- and in multiples, it’s very annoying . It adds a decision point to every single spell which in cEDH is a lot
Not a huge fan of the way you kind of condescendingly put down people disagreeing with you. Yes you are working with data but people can interpret this data in different ways. Much of it is complex enough to have multiple interpretations. Some people do state their thoughts in ways that disagree with the data and not the take though. That’s just misspeaking most of the time though.
When I said the "it's okay to be wrong" I was just poking fun at the Flash stuff, which is purely hypothetical since it'll never be unbanned and also something I don't have a strong opinion about anyways.
The data talk is just a bit of a pet peeve since most of those comments we get are pretty well answered if you just watch the full video or at least the intro. We don't pretend to be the final say on what the data means. We just like presenting the data and aren't big on moving the goalposts and ignoring results to support our opinions.
@@LemorasCards totally fair. Yeah I bet you receive some ridiculous comments. Loved the video btw!
@@Dafins100 thank you!
One-sided Ouphe for green-> Karn
Honestly why don’t they experiment more and just ban something for a little while and unban it. I guess it might make people on edge who invested who bought those cards but who cares let’s keep the format different and interesting.
I can understand why they don't, but I will always want them to haha.
Agree 100% with banning Rhystic Study.
Unban leovold for 99 and problem solved
How about we stop complaining about a competitive card in a competitive format... go play casual if competitive cards bother you... cries for 5 plus minutes about study but doesn't even mention dockside..okay sure thing bud
Ah, yes, Rhystic Study is well known for how uncommon it is in casual commander.
Banning rhystic is a terrible idea. Love the content, but thats just such a awful take
How so? Instead of just saying it's a bad take, which you're completely entitled to, explain your reasoning. It's just an opinion, just like the one you just gave. Instead, we expanded our thoughts vs "bad take" with no context.
Instead of rhystic why not thassa's oracle?? Rhystic don't makes you win the game on turn 1 dude! Thassa should be banned