The depth we all need 🙌🏼. I like the rollers (Endo pro 3) for locking in to those steasy 10 milers at 7:30ish, to uptempo/marathon pace. I like my Vaporfly 2 for the same kind of lock but at faster paces because of that tippy forward propulsion you described. A little shove is kind sometimes. Can’t wait to see how it compares to endo pro 3.
Sometimes a helping hand is greatly appreciate on those longer runs. Thats why I'm finding the Edge Paris so interesting. Usually that rocker gets in the way for me...but so far not with the Edge Paris. I need to take it on some longer runs though...over 10mi/16k....soon.
I think the Asics sports science Institute (their RnD centre in Kobe) is of high quality imho. They certainly punch above their weight. Given that the SSI and Asics as a company are both significantly smaller than Nike and Adidas. Both in terms of budget, and number of researchers they have.
Agree… they have always been like this. It’s just for years they focused on gel and stability tech… it’s good to see them shift gears into things they make better (and faster) shoes.
Great video, thank you. My Edge Paris arrived yesterday haven’t taken them out the box yet, have 2 time trials next week for them before London Marathon in April chasing 2:40!
Race shoes require data to contextualize feel. Trainers, not as much. So for race shoe comparisons I'll keep adding the data in. Oddly I started back with my older VF3 vs Sky+ comparison video. Maybe its just a Nike vs Asics thing for me. 🤣
My pair arrived yesterday. I've only tried them on, yet to run in them. The first thing I noticed was how narrow it felt under my foot, I suspect this is going to be slightly unstable. I have the VF3 and Takumi Sen 8 & 9 so it was interesting to see that comparison graphic. I get on well with the LSP cushioning so Im glad to hear that this feels similar. Will debut it in a 10k race in 2 weeks, can't wait!
If you are used to LSP then the Paris series won’t take alot to get used too. They are somewhere between ZoomX and LSP, closer to LSP. But yes, it’s a very narrow platform… it’s why I point it out. It’s not a problem… just need to get used to it. I’m currently testing the TS10… I’m finding it a much better shoe, for many reasons, but one of them is that I think it gained some width over the TS9. I need to compare them.
Nothing subtle about money 😂.. My Vaporfly V2 lost the pop at around 100 miles.. My Metaspeed Edge plus and Sky plus are like new at around 150 miles.. Hope Metaspeed Paris stays fresh for long ❤
So far it’s holding up well. I’m round 50miles (80k) in and I have some minor outsole wear (normal), the foam is softer (in a good way, still no sink) and the shoe has broken in nicely (after about 40-50k). I’ll be doing an update video when I hit 100mi (160k).
Very helpful as a HS runner, I loved the pop off and aggressive feeling of the VF2! I’m looking for a similar shoe… but I hadn’t heard the greatest things about the VF3. Your explanation on the propulsion is what I was looking for!
The Edge Paris is not exactly like the VF2 was… but it’s in the same general area of feel. It will take some adjustment but it may be something you end up enjoying.
Ya.. I was shocked. I’ve run a bunch of shoes against Vaporflys over the years, not just the 3, and none of them have ever come close. Well done Asics.
Sadly the only racing arch width I’ve been comfortable in is the vaporfly /alphafly (which people seem to complain about). Feel like the edge is going somewhere with their width. Giving more viable options. The shoe does feel like a vaporfly adios pro 3 mix kind of
@@SagasuRunning With that comment I'm sold. Lol I love the adios pro 3 but feels it sometimes gets in my way. I love the Vaporfly 3 but wish it felt more endless foamy. Definitely getting a metaspeed for my birthday 😂 🎂
What you describe here is EXACTLY how the Edge Paris feels. The one thing to keep in mind is how much more narrow it is than the VF3 or AP3. Once you get used to not though you’ll be good. 👍🏻
great that you compared it to the adios pro 3. It would have been great if you were able to provide the running economy stats on adios pro 3 not everyone can afford $300 shoe but still want to do their best on a marathon
As a beginner runner of 4 months. I’ve got to try both of these shoes and I agree with what you’re saying about their constructions of the build. Also I do prefer the Vaporfly 3. I train in the Novablast 4
I'm favoring the MSEP lately, but I'm doing some 5k work at the moment. The VF3 is something I prefer for longer races. Though my tastes are evolving some it seems.
Super review. I'll be interested in the durability of the midsoles. After 300miles on the vf3, The foam seems to lose lose its pop during longer runs, at least on my feet.
I’m currently working on the MSEP, I’ll have an update on the shoe at 100mi. The VF always lost any its pop in two stages. After about 150mi, it toned down a lot and wasn’t something I wanted for racing anymore so it became a trainer. Then after 250-300mi’ish the shoe became rather pedestrian, still a good trainer than saved the legs, but not much more. The MSEP… seems to have a wider range. More soon.
I just bought these aiming for a 3:45 marathon in June… is my pace too slow for these to work for me? I wore the VF3s during my last marathon and they seemed to work well for me…
Nope, but he slower we run the less impact they have but that line if much further down the time table. You’ll enjoy them and be happy you wore them. Enjoy your upcoming race and good luck. 💪🏻
Thank you for the video - this helps with my choice of Edge as I may need the help in longer/marathon distances as my form may "tire" in the latter stages of the race. Running a half this weekend with Pro 3's and first thing I noticed was the width of each shoe - the edge seems to be on par with the Pro 2's which I had, but I recall a bit unstable cornering. Hopefully the edge is not like that.
Thanks - did you feel any unstableness in the shoe as you ran in them, especially if you did any cornering? Also I do strike the mid to back of foot and have "leaned" back on my shoes a bit when tired in long runs and really heel strike - trying to change that though.
@042766 they do feel like a high narrow platform under foot, especially coming from the VF3… but I’ve not had any issues. It is why I’m pointing it out though in my videos on the shoe so people aren’t taken off guard. It feels like one of those things you will get used to after a run or two.
Thank you for noticing. Evolving my content strategy for big releases (that I'm interested in) like this as well as tweaking my video formats I use for them. Continual improvement!
I have my initial impressions review of the Endorphin Pro 4 coming tomorrow. You may want to watch it first if you liked the 3… Thank you for the support and kind words! cheers from Taiwan (and I lived in Norway a bit as a teen, kind of an exchange student thing, outside of Askim).
Hard to say. Both the SB and the MSEP/MSSP were TTS to me. I have optimal room infront of my big toe in both. You really should try them on if you can.
I am a marathoner after all. but I’d race either of those in either of these shoes, though the Vaporfly would be my primary choice. I am currently testing the a Takumi Sen 10… that could be 3rd option.
@TeenTri_Life : this can be a dangerous question… because even if VF3 fits you well etc. they are way more suited for longer distances. FOR ME, it’s about the softness (too soft). I think all brands are after the marathon now, difficult to find something 5/10K optimal… unfortunately.
For me it’s about too much rocker and foam. That is why I default to the VF3 for it… it’s got the best mix for me. But she is like the Takumi Sen and Cielo Road definitely are valid options.
I wore the Metaspeed Sky Paris last night for the first time. It was a slower run, but felt ok. My hope is the flatter plate agrees with me more than the lower plate format, which I've struggled with in the past.
My running shoes have always been neutral. I tried the Nike Vaporfly running shoes and they were soooo aggressive that the strain on my heel area caused a lot of problems. For me, they were very difficult to wear for long distance runs The Saucony Men's Endorphin Pro 2 has been the perfect running shoe. So much so … that I bought as many as I could as they were being phased out I am now looking for a new running shoe. Is the Asics Metaspeed Edge comparable to the Saucony Men's Endorphin Pro 2 ? Does anyone have any thoughts on a comparable running shoe to the old Saucony Men's Endorphin Pro 2 ? The strike was great ... not sooo aggressive that it put enormous pressure on my heels
I wasn’t a fan of the EP1 or 2. I found them both very vague. I don’t know what the modern analog would be to them. The Metaspeeds are very aggressive, though with the firmer foam and lower drop than a VF they may be worth a try. The Endorphin Pro 4 might also be worth a look. It’s not the same as the EP4 but very neutral and “normal” in its ride.
For me, this is the best video I've seen you've made 👍💪 Love to sit and look at your data between the shoes 👍💪😊 As you say yourself, I also think Vaporfly works best for you because you've run so much in it . Our bodies adapt to the shoes we use, perhaps even more than we think 🤔 If you have to run a marathon and everything goes 100% according to plan how fast do you think you can run 🤔. Of course, I know that everything never goes 100% as we had hoped 😱😀
I need to get another 100-200k into the MSEP… then I’ll make a finally call. But they are so close even now. The data really shows that. Thank you for the props on the video. Race shoes need data to back up feel… for sure!
@@SagasuRunning 👍🙂 I really like this video because you show the data 😀 So does Tim Grose 👍😀. Who is also one of my favorite RUclipsrs. personally, I think it's a shame that there are so many talented RUclipsrs who don't show any concrete data. plus something that can also annoy me a little. Maybe it's just me. But I don't understand why someone doesn't say how fast they run when they test a shoe they just say they run at marathon pace. But what is marathon pace for them 🤔. The shoes work very differently depending on the speed. So the more data we get. The easier it is for us to relate to and assess whether a shoe works for us 🤔
I wonder about that too. Maybe it's because data cannot be easily manipulated to skew certain choices over others, @@JS-Treadmill-Running. In fact, I don't think most influencers want to educate different runners to make their own, different choices, perhaps fearing that their influence would be jeopardized.
I absolutely love how detailed and technical you are with your videos. Thank you! With your comparison of the two shoes in the end, it sounds as if pace plays a role in deciding which shoe works best. Is that the case? And is there a pace at which you'll recommend one shoe over the other?
Not really. Between the MSEP and the VF3 I found they are the same (in feel) for MP or HMP, which is what I would want either for. Once I get into 10k pace or faster the big chunk of foam and larger rocker in the MSEP start to get uncomfortable for me and I definitely favor the more streamlined VF3. Any faster than 5k and I don’t like either. The MSEP is too much shoe and the VF3 is too mushy… something like a Takumi Sen becomes what I want. Thank you for the feedback and support on the content. I’m glad it’s enjoyable! 🤙🏻
I enjoyed your video 👍 But could you clarify for me how you would describe the width in terms of the fit for both? I have the adios pro 2 which is uncomfortably narrow for me. Since I hike in Altars Im always looking for wide running shoes since they are the most comfortable for me and my wide feed.
Neither one of these are wide, even by an non-Altra standard. They are both narrow race fits. Both narrower than the AP2, especially the MSEP. The VF3 has a much more accommodating upper but still is on a narrow platform. The widest top tier super shoe I can think of would be the Adidas Adios Pro 3, which is fairly wide… but no Altra wide at all.
@@SagasuRunning Thank you very much for your fast feedback. I know they aren’t altra wide but read that both are wider then their predecessors. It’s good to know that the AP3 is the widest super shoe, but it just doesn’t seem as exciting for 5k 10k and hm. Same with the altra vanish carbon, but I guess you also don’t see them as a top tier racer since you didn’t think of them in terms of a wide super shoe. I also squeeze into the endorphin speed 3 for my tempo runs and they are reasonable comfortable. I guess I will try on the VF3 and Meta Speed Sky and keep the more comfortable for my upcoming 10k. (Not that I need the latest super shoe to try going sub 40, but life is to short for boring shoes 😄)
If the Endorphin Speed 3 is stable down your door you may want to look at the Endorphin Pro 4. It’s not at the same level as Nike/Adidas/Asics… but it’s maybe the best of the rest. But ya… the VF3 will be your best bet from your list… just because the upper does have alot of volume.
According to the measurements done by RunRepeat, the actual heel drop for Vaporfly3 is 11 mm. not 8mm. Is Vaporfly3 suitable for forefoot or midfoot striker?
Interesting to see Lap 1 at same HR the Metaspeed Edge Paris had faster splits. Also would like to mention for Nike I would need to go half size up but true to size in the Asics -- so the Metaspeed Edge Paris would have a weight advantage for me.
Lap 1 in the Nike run was full on into a 22 km/h head wind and rough… I remember it vividly… so the fact it’s even close to Lap 1 in the Asics is a win for me.
Great review. Love the measurements and technical depth. Just one remark, you mentioned the vaporfly feels like a lower drop (similar to asics) because it compresses more than the metaspeed. But isnt it the opposite? Assuming forefoot landing, the compression would increase the drop instead of lowering it I’d think?
I was more talking about step in feel. You typically stand and walk heel first. During the run the loads are all over the place be it depends on your foot strike. If you are a heel striker you’ll compress the heel and have less effective drop than a forefoot striker. DOR did a shoe about the subject a few months ago. It’s fascinating actually.
If I am going to purchase one today, I would go for the vaporfly in Taiwan just because I can get it at a much lower price than Edge Paris. Since Vaporfly 3 has been out for much longer and is easier to find at a discounted price.
I found the vapor fly to have some instability in how my foot lands. Do you think the meta speed is any more or less stable than the vapor fly? And do you think the sky is good for mid pack runners 10/min mile heavier runner?
The Metaspeed Paris series are more stable due to the fact that the foam is firmer. It is well cushioned and very responsive but you don’t sink into it… at all, like Nike ZoomX. The Metaspeeds are both on the narrow side, which could add instability… but the midsole platform is much more stable. Either Metapseed will work for a heavier runner. It really comes down to what type of underfoot sensation you like to have. Watch my “Choosing the right Metaspeed for you” video for the full rundown.
I prefer the feel of a low plate configuration. I don’t enjoy running in the high plate configuration, like the Sky or Alphafly… for me the data is clear, VF3 type shoes work better for me. I’ll have a video or two at the end of April or in May getting into it… I’ll (hopefully) have a AF3 by then to compare.
Great detail in your review thanks. For 10K racing, which would be the most competitive against a runner in VF2? I'm coming from original MS Edge (not plus) but just want the most advantage over VF2. Cheers
@@SagasuRunning thanks for the feedback, boss. Thats what I felt when I fitted the VF3 at the store and did a treadmill run on it. However, the lockdown of the VF3 feels odd for my feet since I feel like the heel lockdown is too shallow and slips and I have to do a runner's knot to fix it, which makes it tighter for my feet and I don't like it. Haven't tested the MSP yet because of lack of stocks where I'm from. Hopefully, I can test the MSP soon and finally pull the trigger whichever feels best.
The MSP is a great shoe… but FFTurbo+ is much firmer than Fuelcell of ZoomX. However the fit on the MSP is possibly the best fitting race up of any brand right now.
Are your sample size weights correct?, I have these two shoes both in US11.5 and the ASICS are 207grams, vs the Nikes 229grams. How can the sample sizes be the same when in my size the Nikes are 10% heavier?
Sample sizes are US Men’s size 9, which is my size as well. The manufactures scale their shoes they scale them differently so the weights tend to get out of proportion in larger sizes, especially above US men’s 11.
Does the Edge has the same feel and ride with the SC Elite V3?.. I feel comfortable using the Elite V3, whenever my legs feel the fatigue I can walk and run slow with it and still feel stable on the foot I also tried the VF3 but when I'm at a slow pace I feel unstable.. thus the Edge give the same feeling?
I've never run in the SC Elite v3 so I can't say. I'm sure there are other youtubers what have covered both shoes and can offer a feel difference. Sorry. What you may be reacting to is the softer foams of the SC Elite v3 and VF3, if you arne't used to a foam you sink into it could be an issue. The FFTurbo+ in the Paris series if much firmer than either foam.
Thanks for the reply. Loved the first sky even though I over pronate noticeably on my right foot, it never was a problem. Tried the Sky plus and my foot was hanging off the side of the shoe. I’d like to try the new Edge but worried I’d have the same problem as the Sky plus.
@keith3999 It could be an issue. The Edge Paris is very narrow. Much more so than the Sky Plus or Sky Paris. I don’t remember how wide the OG Sky was… I ran in the OG Edge more and it was also fairly narrow.
Marginally…. Both the Sky and Edge Paris are very narrow shoes. The extra width in the Sky Paris is due to the plate being a little wider on the medial side due to the need for stability under the foot to load the foam under it through the toe-off. We are talking a few mm at best, likely not even noticeable unless you wear both on your feet to see. These are both very narrow, race fit, shoes.
Great comparison, as someone who has never tried the Nike Vaporfly 1-3 as I have a wider toe box. I loved the OG Sky, raced a half in the Metaspeed edge + and loved it for that distance and has raced in the adios pro 2 and saucony pro 2 both in marathons, I wonder if i should try the vaporfly 2 on sale or go for the paris here? I did best in the Edge plus but it's to firm for over a half and the Sacouny Pro 2 was faster for the full but the Adidas adios pro 2 saved my legs much more after- For reference point..I am leaning towards the Vaporfly 2 if i can find my size on sale only because it sounds like I've been missing out. Even now the Nike 3 is just as good as the new paris after watching. Thanks for any guidence!
If you never ran in the VF2 and are curious it's worth trying...but it's an old shoe at this point. The Edge Paris is softer than the older Metaspeeds, especially once it breaks in, but it doesn't have the leg savings of the Adios Pro. Something to consider. ZoomX foam is the ultimate in leg savings though.
@@SagasuRunning Got a pait of VF2s for $70. used on the track 1x by previous owner. It's a fun/fast shoe but for a full I'd be btter served with the VF3 or either versions of the paris I think. VF2 -was a fun shoe to do a 10K in so far. For me not unstable at all, at the at the half or under distance I believe! Glad I bought it, I have a high forefoot IE toe bow area so thought it would be to narrow, but so it's been fine. Thanks much.
@SagasuRunning you must have been pushing it lol....there seams to be mixed comments,some saying 100 mls !! That's alot of dosh for 100 !! Garmin app sais 400,once the edge are logged in as new shoes,so not sure where they get that figure from ...... I'd be happy with 250,100 or less I'd be abit narked !!! Fingers crossed 🤞
250mi in them, 150’ish of good racing and the rest as training…. Should be VERY doable. The outsole and midsole foam are both extremely durable. I also think the upper issue was my issue. I’ve seen no one else report on it at all.
The Nike Vaporfly 3 definitely has a more prominent arch over the Edge Paris. Though it also can cause issues for some runners as it can be too prominent. Neither have removable insoles or the ability to put on in. I'm lucky in that I never have arch issues with shoes so it's not something I often think about.
I’ll do a vs to the Adios Pro 4 when that comes out… as those will be currently generations. The AP3 is a great shoe (horrible upper) but it’s old now.
It says now… even for California across country. I think it’s too stiff and too unstable. You’d be much better off with Vaporfly 3s (plus the waffle outsole will give you a little grip for that California XC). Even VF2s would be preferable as they are a little lower and more stable. I’d look around at your teammates or other racers at your meets and see if anyone is making the Metaspeeds work. I can’t see them doing better than Vaporflys though…
@whippedculture7633 I will be comparing those two shoes in so data later this month and I’ll definitely be doing a vs video with the Adios Pro 4 and Evo C later this year. Stay tuned.
Just got the edge paris and I did a small run test in my friends vaporfly 3s. Man those asics feel like running with trampolines on your feet compared to VP3s. Didn't have the heart to tell my friend he bought the wrong shoes 😂
Are you still responding to replies? Hehe Looking for my first race day running shoes. My only & current trainers are the Asics Superblast which are in size 8.5US. I was able to fit them in store since they are widely available. I tested a size 8US which fits nicely as well but my right foot kind a feel crammed so I opted for a 8.5US which leaves me a thumb-worth of space on the toebox. For context, I am walking for hours at the mall so my feet are probably slightly swollen. I have a lot of Jordans and other casual shoes from other brands which are in 8US (my usual size). So I was wondering if what size should I get for the Vaporfly 3??? Unfortunately, I have searched for every store on my area and they are soldout… I have no choice but to buy them online.
I’d buy from a place with good returns, ideally Nike.com…. But I’d start with a Size 8US, go TTS. The fit of the VF3 is much more generous than the SB.
Thank you for this. By far and away the best explanation of MS Edge Paris I have heard. The comparison to VF3 really worked for me as it is my go-to race shoe. But, based on your conclusion, I am now worrying about whether I really am in the best possible shape for Boston?!? Should I be seeking MS Paris assistance or do I back myself with VF3? There goes 3 weeks of navel-gazing!!! 😂
Although by ASICS standards I’m considered a “cadence runner” I’ve always preferred the high plate options (alphafly over vaporfly, the sky over the edges) I think it’s because where my cadence gets so high I prefer a shoe that helps me extend my stride rather than increase my cadence more
… and this is how more runners should be with Asics’s question… be analytical about the type of feel you want and add that into Asics’s suggestion. Very good!
So the Sky may be more in line with the vaporfly 3 as it has a a wider forefoot base, but I do believe the heel is narrower than the vaporfly. I went with the edge because I didn’t want the plate so close to my foot.
If the Sky is closer to the Alphafly, that tips it for me. I want a marathon shoe that’s more spongy/bouncy, for me the AF1 is much more helpful than the VF3 for long stuff.
Great review matey! Been loving your content and how you’ve been objective when needed as well as acknowledging your biases. Keep it up! Wanted to get your personal thoughts on the stability of the metaspeed edge paris and whether you’ve experienced it as ‘unstable’ compared to the vaporfly 3 during your initial run(s)? I know you mentioned some might find that’s the case in your video but wanted your personal opinion as well as others here to chime in. I did a brief run on the treadmill in store and found them much narrower than the vaporflys/alphaflys/endorphin pro 3 and wonder whether it takes some getting used to the narrower platform or are they just not for me? Another question is how is the durability on the shoes now? Conscious you’ve probably had a few more miles since posting this video!
I actually did a 16k Threshold run in the MSEP today and had two thoughts: 1). It’s very narrow (only really and issue on uneven pavement or cambered roads). 2). While it is soft, there is no sink into the foam (compression, yes… but not sink) so the platform feels high and tippy (back to unstable). They are fast… but no sure they fully suit my biomechanics… need more time in them. Durability… well the foam is fine but the outsole is wearing smooth, in my high wear areas, faster than I’d expect ( 46km now). No issue as of yet but I’ll keep an eye on it. Thank you for the props on the content. I do try to be as objective as I can. 🤙🏻
@@SagasuRunning so I went back into the Asics store to try them both on again. Your reviews and descriptions of how they feel are absolutely spot on! I’m still undecided on which I prefer for my marathon pace. From your experience, does one feeling enhance performance/efficiency more than the other? Or is it purely personal preference? For context, I’m super undecided because I wear the saucony EP3 for my tempo and long runs while I’m saving my alphafly 3’s for race day. However, I’ve taken the alphafly 3’s for a couple of runs to test them and love it as well. I enjoy both the bouncy feeling as well as the rolling stable feeling.
@@SagasuRunning I ended up with the Edge after the 3rd try on. While I enjoy the bounding and bouncy feeling similar to the alphafly 3, I realized I couldn’t activate the plate in the Sky as much as I’d like because the foam not being as soft as zoomX as well as the cut outs that the alphafly has for its air zoom pods and how the plate in Nike is more flexible (I’m lightweight at 61kg and 5’7). That said, the Edge still has that bounciness and like you mentioned, a very good stable rolling feeling and is still fantastic for my speedwork and longer distances. I really enjoy how stiff the plate is to keep me tipped forward. Thanks again for your advise and videos! Helped me a lot with my decision making and information gathering. Would love to hear your thoughts on the alphafly 3’s if you ever do get around to trying a pair. On another note, how’s your Edges holding up durability wise since your last reply? 🙏🏻
I’m glad you got it all sorted. Asics has not made the choice easy for many runners. I’ll eventually get a pair of AF3s… someday when the Nike gods bless me. My MSEP are doing well. The outsole it holding up, similar to the Plus series and I have noticed the foam has softened up a little bit, but still no sink. I did some speed work on them yesterday (3:44/km pace) and found them great for that type of effort. Though I do find them unstable on camber or uneven pavement.
Would you recommend the Edge or Sky (depending on your stride/cadence) as a good 5K to marathon racer? Or, would you recommend picking up a shorter distance shoe like the Takumi Sen 10?
I’m currently testing the Takumi Sen 10…. But either of the Paris series shoes would work, depending on what your preference is… and the Vaporfly would still be my first choice.
I have vapor 3 and takumi sen 10,tbh i still like nike vapor fly for 5k I dont feel the bouncy at takumi sen But that just my opinion(i feel faster at vapor)
I’m finding the TS10 to be a much better shoe. The full length EnergyRods 2.0 make a huge difference. I also enjoy the stiffer LSP. The shoe doesn’t have the bounce… but it’s so direct and fun to run in.
@@SagasuRunning I love to hear that you're enjoying the 10's. I remember you not being overly enthusiastic about the 9's. My issue is that I don't tend to pull my 5K shoes for regular training. I'd much prefer to do my speed work in my super shoe (right now the Endorphin Pro 3). I might run 4 to 5 5k's per year so I don't find myself putting in enough miles to justify adding them to my rotation. I'd prefer to invest that money in a really good marathon shoe that can handle shorter distances versus a specific short distance shoe. I feel that same way about supertrainers. I get the selling point being they can do everything from easy to fast running, but I prefer to do my easy stuff in a non-plated daily trainer, then, do my speed work in a carbon plated shoe. I'm still relatively new in my running journey. Your channel has been instrumental and helping me make wise purchasing decisions. Appreciate all you do!
@torenforsberg1 I definitely had a love/hate relationship with the TS9… but the TS10 is a big ungrade… it’s how always wanted the show to feel. I too struggle with a “workout” shoe… I just tend to do that work in a daily trainer or a super shoe. I’m trying to find some shoes this year than can do both and other models specialize as well. Thank you for the kind words on the channel. I’m happy to hear it’s helping you on your running journey! 🤙🏻
Congratulations, huge video once more! You are in trouble now, we want a full Sky and a vs with Alphafly bouahahah! No really :D Still try to figure out which one to buy Sky or Edge, I should just bring the old Skies in the shop and try them all together. Original Metaspeed Sky (low plate) was my biggest love and a PB machine. In contrast, Vaporflies 2 I could only stand them for 20 km before I give them away. Isn't that controversial?
Hahaha… I’ll eventually get the the Alphafly… but unlikely the Sky. Never say never though. If you liked the OG Sky… there is a strong chance you may like the Edge Paris. On the VF2s… I’ve sent plenty of shoes to the donation box that many people love. It happens. We all have what works for us and our preferences.
The VF3 & MSEP are nearly the same shoe, definitely from a plate configuration. The AF3 & MSSP are the right matchup, but not my tastes. The Cielo x1 is its own thing, though more like the Sky Paris. See my “choosing the right Metasped” video for the full explanation…
The MSEP? I'm working on that right now. Just passed 80k (50mi) on them today and they have changed, but the pop is still there. I'll update the channel after 160k (100mi).
If your thoughts on the VFs were thinking that on the forefoot then you will LOVE the Edge Paris. It’s noticeably much more stacked… in both how the foam feels and the ride.
I know I commented on the width and therefore the stability of the edge… for for as narrow as the contact patch of the outsole is it’s fairly stable. The last definitely helps that. Good call.
@@SagasuRunning So IF I can handle the Edge in terms of stability, BUT my flat foot isn't wholly engaged with pushing down the foam into the plate directly, would the performance suffer? In other words, most of my foot hits the platform in the Hoka Rocket X2 as it is much wider. So in addition to stability, would this fact help explain why it might perform better also (not just feel better)? I liked the Edge, but the narrowness made me feel like I couldn't use all of my force to push off. Hope that makes sense.
@theodorebutryn8832 It does. I would guess there will be quick diminishing returns if your foot is hanging over the edge of the midsole… the loads wouldn’t be distributed properly on your foot and it would feel very off. Especially coming for a wider platform.
@@SagasuRunning Brilliant! I'll stick with the Rocket X2 this weekend & see how the Edge feels during a longer workout before I decide whether to race in them or pawn them :)
Interesting idea. I never considered it as a runner. Though I often walk 10-20k steps a day, additional to my running, as I live in an urban environment. I’ll think about this and add it to the list. Though the shoes I like for walking are often very minimal and low to the ground. I don’t like a lot of cushion for casual wear…
I’ve run for several weeks with a Vaporfly 3 on my left foot and the Edge Paris on the right foot - almost no difference… except… except: 1) outsole durability - the Vaporfly has lasted 500 km!!, better than all previous Vaporflies ever (and I have a neutral mechanics: forefoot, landing on the outside, then quickly pushing off the metatarsals insertions) - with Asics, I was running on foam after the 150-ish km 2) the fit - the Vaporfly is much, much better for a narrow heel (the runner’s “light-boned” skinny type), giving a precise race catamaran steering - the Edge feels (and measures inside) as wider in the heel), it feels like a barge on the Seine, unless I cut my blood circulation by cinching down the laces (ouch!) 3) the overall heel to mid-foot lack of pressure points - Nike have had 3 iterations to add padding where needed, Asics keeps on with the “ring over your ankle” configuration So I’d recommend anyone to choose based on 1) their unique foot form; and 2) outsole durability
Interesting observations I fully agree on VF3 durability. I’ve gotten amazing durability in them, both midsole and outsole. I also adore the upper, it’s the first race upper that has never given me any type of issue. For reference I have a high developed arch and high volume foot, neither wide nor narrow. That being said I’m surprised as I think the MSEP has a much narrower last and a more aggressive race fit overall… better for a narrow foot. I can’t imagine running in a VF3 on one foot and a MSEP on the other…. The differences in the foam compression and height would be awful.
I purchased both Edge and Sky Paris together. I find the Sky Paris much worse than the original Sky. Very unstable and gave me sole blisters. Reminds me of the Alphafly 2. Will return them. Am trying the Edge next. Vaporfly 3 is great but not as good as the original Metaspeed Sky which I find is the mist comfortable carbon shoe on the market. Comfort over long distance is everything!
The original Metaspeed Sky had a low plate configuration, similar to the Edge Paris. Totally different than the Sky+ or SKy Paris. You may like the Edge Paris afterall.
It’s about how the shoe felt. I felt like I was running “better” in the VF3. Some of that is my comfort with the VF3… but it comes down to how the shoe feels… how agile, can I accelerate, can I maintain pace with X effort… it is all those subtle things that “feel” better. It’s where data and what feels good on your feet get blurry.
![Noob To Max With DRAGON REWORK In Blox Fruits [FULL MOVIE]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/LnBMOinoOvA/mqdefault.jpg)
The depth we all need 🙌🏼. I like the rollers (Endo pro 3) for locking in to those steasy 10 milers at 7:30ish, to uptempo/marathon pace. I like my Vaporfly 2 for the same kind of lock but at faster paces because of that tippy forward propulsion you described. A little shove is kind sometimes. Can’t wait to see how it compares to endo pro 3.
Sometimes a helping hand is greatly appreciate on those longer runs. Thats why I'm finding the Edge Paris so interesting. Usually that rocker gets in the way for me...but so far not with the Edge Paris. I need to take it on some longer runs though...over 10mi/16k....soon.
Phenomenal job. Glad people are following the chanel increasingly. They can see the quality!
Thank you! I appreciate the kind words and support! 🙏🏻
I think the Asics sports science Institute (their RnD centre in Kobe) is of high quality imho. They certainly punch above their weight. Given that the SSI and Asics as a company are both significantly smaller than Nike and Adidas. Both in terms of budget, and number of researchers they have.
Agree… they have always been like this. It’s just for years they focused on gel and stability tech… it’s good to see them shift gears into things they make better (and faster) shoes.
@@SagasuRunning great points.
You are the best running shoes review channel!
Thank you. I appreciate that! 🙏🏻
Very thorough which is what I enjoy the most. 🎉
Great video, thank you. My Edge Paris arrived yesterday haven’t taken them out the box yet, have 2 time trials next week for them before London Marathon in April chasing 2:40!
Good luck. Hopefully they work out for you. They are really remarkable. A huge step forward for Asics.
@@SagasuRunning Shoes worked great. Ran a 2:38:17 for a PB in London in the Edge Paris. Perfect marathon shoes for my running style.
@@benwalton Congrats on the PR. Well done!
Like the Data in this video, we can always use more data from reviewers, so nice job here. Still waiting on my Edge Paris to ship.
Race shoes require data to contextualize feel. Trainers, not as much. So for race shoe comparisons I'll keep adding the data in. Oddly I started back with my older VF3 vs Sky+ comparison video. Maybe its just a Nike vs Asics thing for me. 🤣
Very helpful! Thanks. I will be in Boston and need to decide between these two shoes. I think I will go with the ASICS as I just recover from a flu.
You really can’t go wrong with either. Good luck on this weekends race (assuming you are racing)! 🤙🏻
My pair arrived yesterday. I've only tried them on, yet to run in them. The first thing I noticed was how narrow it felt under my foot, I suspect this is going to be slightly unstable. I have the VF3 and Takumi Sen 8 & 9 so it was interesting to see that comparison graphic. I get on well with the LSP cushioning so Im glad to hear that this feels similar. Will debut it in a 10k race in 2 weeks, can't wait!
If you are used to LSP then the Paris series won’t take alot to get used too. They are somewhere between ZoomX and LSP, closer to LSP.
But yes, it’s a very narrow platform… it’s why I point it out. It’s not a problem… just need to get used to it.
I’m currently testing the TS10… I’m finding it a much better shoe, for many reasons, but one of them is that I think it gained some width over the TS9. I need to compare them.
Nothing subtle about money 😂.. My Vaporfly V2 lost the pop at around 100 miles.. My Metaspeed Edge plus and Sky plus are like new at around 150 miles.. Hope Metaspeed Paris stays fresh for long ❤
That is the big unknown. I’ll be putting as many kms into them as I canning the coming months to find out.
How is it now
So far it’s holding up well. I’m round 50miles (80k) in and I have some minor outsole wear (normal), the foam is softer (in a good way, still no sink) and the shoe has broken in nicely (after about 40-50k). I’ll be doing an update video when I hit 100mi (160k).
For recreational runner like me, i will just pick one with the best upper that's the most comfortable for my feet.
Both uppers here are great...for race shoes that is.
Very helpful as a HS runner, I loved the pop off and aggressive feeling of the VF2! I’m looking for a similar shoe… but I hadn’t heard the greatest things about the VF3. Your explanation on the propulsion is what I was looking for!
The Edge Paris is not exactly like the VF2 was… but it’s in the same general area of feel. It will take some adjustment but it may be something you end up enjoying.
@@SagasuRunning Great, thank you so much!
I usually wait until I'm sitting down to watch your videos. Definitely a good decision with this one. Very interesting how similar the data is.
Ya.. I was shocked. I’ve run a bunch of shoes against Vaporflys over the years, not just the 3, and none of them have ever come close. Well done Asics.
Sadly the only racing arch width I’ve been comfortable in is the vaporfly /alphafly (which people seem to complain about). Feel like the edge is going somewhere with their width. Giving more viable options. The shoe does feel like a vaporfly adios pro 3 mix kind of
That is a good way to describe the Edge Paris… or a “more nimble Adios Pro 3”….
@@SagasuRunning With that comment I'm sold. Lol I love the adios pro 3 but feels it sometimes gets in my way. I love the Vaporfly 3 but wish it felt more endless foamy. Definitely getting a metaspeed for my birthday 😂 🎂
What you describe here is EXACTLY how the Edge Paris feels. The one thing to keep in mind is how much more narrow it is than the VF3 or AP3. Once you get used to not though you’ll be good. 👍🏻
@@CELane-zv6uj glad i can help!😂😂
great that you compared it to the adios pro 3. It would have been great if you were able to provide the running economy stats on adios pro 3
not everyone can afford $300 shoe but still want to do their best on a marathon
I won’t be comparing the MSEP to the AP3… but I will be comparing the MSEP to both the AP4 and EvoC coming out later this year.
As a beginner runner of 4 months. I’ve got to try both of these shoes and I agree with what you’re saying about their constructions of the build. Also I do prefer the Vaporfly 3.
I train in the Novablast 4
I'm favoring the MSEP lately, but I'm doing some 5k work at the moment. The VF3 is something I prefer for longer races. Though my tastes are evolving some it seems.
Super review. I'll be interested in the durability of the midsoles. After 300miles on the vf3, The foam seems to lose lose its pop during longer runs, at least on my feet.
I’m currently working on the MSEP, I’ll have an update on the shoe at 100mi. The VF always lost any its pop in two stages. After about 150mi, it toned down a lot and wasn’t something I wanted for racing anymore so it became a trainer. Then after 250-300mi’ish the shoe became rather pedestrian, still a good trainer than saved the legs, but not much more.
The MSEP… seems to have a wider range. More soon.
I just bought these aiming for a 3:45 marathon in June… is my pace too slow for these to work for me? I wore the VF3s during my last marathon and they seemed to work well for me…
Nope, but he slower we run the less impact they have but that line if much further down the time table. You’ll enjoy them and be happy you wore them. Enjoy your upcoming race and good luck. 💪🏻
Thank you for the video - this helps with my choice of Edge as I may need the help in longer/marathon distances as my form may "tire" in the latter stages of the race. Running a half this weekend with Pro 3's and first thing I noticed was the width of each shoe - the edge seems to be on par with the Pro 2's which I had, but I recall a bit unstable cornering. Hopefully the edge is not like that.
I can’t recall how narrow the AP2 felt… but I think the Edge Paris is much closer to it… the AP3 is a fairly wide platform for sure.
Thanks - did you feel any unstableness in the shoe as you ran in them, especially if you did any cornering? Also I do strike the mid to back of foot and have "leaned"
back on my shoes a bit when tired in long runs and really heel
strike - trying to change that though.
@042766 they do feel like a high narrow platform under foot, especially coming from the VF3… but I’ve not had any issues. It is why I’m pointing it out though in my videos on the shoe so people aren’t taken off guard. It feels like one of those things you will get used to after a run or two.
This series on the Edge Paris is very well done.
Thank you for noticing. Evolving my content strategy for big releases (that I'm interested in) like this as well as tweaking my video formats I use for them. Continual improvement!
Really great video. You are the best running shoe reviewer on RUclips. Thank you!
Thank you for watching! 🙏🏻
Good explanation and gold information for Marathon😊
I hope it helps! 🤙🏻
About to replace my beloved Endorphin Pro 3, loving your videos for guiding me towards a new shoe 🫡 cheers from Norway 🇳🇴
I have my initial impressions review of the Endorphin Pro 4 coming tomorrow. You may want to watch it first if you liked the 3…
Thank you for the support and kind words! cheers from Taiwan (and I lived in Norway a bit as a teen, kind of an exchange student thing, outside of Askim).
@@SagasuRunning - I am living in Sarpsborg, 40 ish minutes from Askim. Small world! EP4 video soon to be watched then.
Thanks for the comparison. Im surprised asics has reached VF3 lightness. Awesome channel
Asics has done a great job with this generation of Metaspeeds. Finally!
Thank you for the kind words on the channel. 🤙🏻
i went half size down with superblast. should i get edge in true to size?
Hard to say. Both the SB and the MSEP/MSSP were TTS to me. I have optimal room infront of my big toe in both. You really should try them on if you can.
If I loved the Vaporfly 2 would you recommend sky Paris or edge Paris. Keeping in mind I run on the balls of my feet.
Edge Paris fully...it will feel familiar but with a high stack under the ball of your foot.
Very specific on comparison of both shoes. Good job.
I hope it was useful! 🤙🏻
So you covered marathons quite well what about 5-10k's
I am a marathoner after all. but I’d race either of those in either of these shoes, though the Vaporfly would be my primary choice. I am currently testing the a Takumi Sen 10… that could be 3rd option.
@TeenTri_Life : this can be a dangerous question… because even if VF3 fits you well etc. they are way more suited for longer distances.
FOR ME, it’s about the softness (too soft).
I think all brands are after the marathon now, difficult to find something 5/10K optimal… unfortunately.
For me it’s about too much rocker and foam. That is why I default to the VF3 for it… it’s got the best mix for me. But she is like the Takumi Sen and Cielo Road definitely are valid options.
I wore the Metaspeed Sky Paris last night for the first time. It was a slower run, but felt ok. My hope is the flatter plate agrees with me more than the lower plate format, which I've struggled with in the past.
I wish you the best with that. It definitely takes some trial and an error to find the shoes that work for you. Hopefully you found them! 🤙🏻
My running shoes have always been neutral.
I tried the Nike Vaporfly running shoes and they were soooo aggressive that the strain on my heel area caused a lot of problems. For me, they were very difficult to wear for long distance runs
The Saucony Men's Endorphin Pro 2 has been the perfect running shoe. So much so … that I bought as many as I could as they were being phased out
I am now looking for a new running shoe.
Is the Asics Metaspeed Edge comparable to the Saucony Men's Endorphin Pro 2 ?
Does anyone have any thoughts on a comparable running shoe to the old Saucony Men's Endorphin Pro 2 ? The strike was great ... not sooo aggressive that it put enormous pressure on my heels
I wasn’t a fan of the EP1 or 2. I found them both very vague. I don’t know what the modern analog would be to them.
The Metaspeeds are very aggressive, though with the firmer foam and lower drop than a VF they may be worth a try.
The Endorphin Pro 4 might also be worth a look. It’s not the same as the EP4 but very neutral and “normal” in its ride.
Thank you for your feedback
For me, this is the best video I've seen you've made 👍💪 Love to sit and look at your data between the shoes 👍💪😊 As you say yourself, I also think Vaporfly works best for you because you've run so much in it . Our bodies adapt to the shoes we use, perhaps even more than we think 🤔 If you have to run a marathon and everything goes 100% according to plan how fast do you think you can run 🤔. Of course, I know that everything never goes 100% as we had hoped 😱😀
I need to get another 100-200k into the MSEP… then I’ll make a finally call. But they are so close even now. The data really shows that.
Thank you for the props on the video. Race shoes need data to back up feel… for sure!
@@SagasuRunning 👍🙂 I really like this video because you show the data 😀 So does Tim Grose 👍😀. Who is also one of my favorite RUclipsrs. personally, I think it's a shame that there are so many talented RUclipsrs who don't show any concrete data. plus something that can also annoy me a little. Maybe it's just me. But I don't understand why someone doesn't say how fast they run when they test a shoe they just say they run at marathon pace. But what is marathon pace for them 🤔. The shoes work very differently depending on the speed. So the more data we get. The easier it is for us to relate to and assess whether a shoe works for us 🤔
I wonder about that too. Maybe it's because data cannot be easily manipulated to skew certain choices over others, @@JS-Treadmill-Running. In fact, I don't think most influencers want to educate different runners to make their own, different choices, perhaps fearing that their influence would be jeopardized.
@JS-Treadmill-Running race shoes need data to make conversation points relevant. I’m glad this hits the mark for you!
I absolutely love how detailed and technical you are with your videos. Thank you! With your comparison of the two shoes in the end, it sounds as if pace plays a role in deciding which shoe works best. Is that the case? And is there a pace at which you'll recommend one shoe over the other?
Not really. Between the MSEP and the VF3 I found they are the same (in feel) for MP or HMP, which is what I would want either for. Once I get into 10k pace or faster the big chunk of foam and larger rocker in the MSEP start to get uncomfortable for me and I definitely favor the more streamlined VF3. Any faster than 5k and I don’t like either. The MSEP is too much shoe and the VF3 is too mushy… something like a Takumi Sen becomes what I want.
Thank you for the feedback and support on the content. I’m glad it’s enjoyable! 🤙🏻
I enjoyed your video 👍
But could you clarify for me how you would describe the width in terms of the fit for both? I have the adios pro 2 which is uncomfortably narrow for me. Since I hike in Altars Im always looking for wide running shoes since they are the most comfortable for me and my wide feed.
Neither one of these are wide, even by an non-Altra standard. They are both narrow race fits. Both narrower than the AP2, especially the MSEP. The VF3 has a much more accommodating upper but still is on a narrow platform.
The widest top tier super shoe I can think of would be the Adidas Adios Pro 3, which is fairly wide… but no Altra wide at all.
@@SagasuRunning
Thank you very much for your fast feedback.
I know they aren’t altra wide but read that both are wider then their predecessors.
It’s good to know that the AP3 is the widest super shoe, but it just doesn’t seem as exciting for 5k 10k and hm. Same with the altra vanish carbon, but I guess you also don’t see them as a top tier racer since you didn’t think of them in terms of a wide super shoe.
I also squeeze into the endorphin speed 3 for my tempo runs and they are reasonable comfortable.
I guess I will try on the VF3 and Meta Speed Sky and keep the more comfortable for my upcoming 10k. (Not that I need the latest super shoe to try going sub 40, but life is to short for boring shoes 😄)
If the Endorphin Speed 3 is stable down your door you may want to look at the Endorphin Pro 4. It’s not at the same level as Nike/Adidas/Asics… but it’s maybe the best of the rest.
But ya… the VF3 will be your best bet from your list… just because the upper does have alot of volume.
According to the measurements done by RunRepeat, the actual heel drop for Vaporfly3 is 11 mm. not 8mm. Is Vaporfly3 suitable for forefoot or midfoot striker?
ZoomX is so compressive, it can be 6--10 mm at any given time. I am a forefoot striker and have run in VFs for years....never any issue.
@@SagasuRunning Thanks a lot!
Interesting to see Lap 1 at same HR the Metaspeed Edge Paris had faster splits. Also would like to mention for Nike I would need to go half size up but true to size in the Asics -- so the Metaspeed Edge Paris would have a weight advantage for me.
Lap 1 in the Nike run was full on into a 22 km/h head wind and rough… I remember it vividly… so the fact it’s even close to Lap 1 in the Asics is a win for me.
Is this shoes good for marathon races subjectively? I am planning to get one. Thank you
Which one specifically?
Awesome video. I’ll test out the Sky Paris in a few weeks and I *think* that’ll be the vaporfly killer.
Good luck with them! Asics really nailed it with the Paris series.
@@SagasuRunning Absolutely! Also looking forward to the Superblast 2. New upper!
New upper and new foam… I too am looking forward to it… 🤞🏻
Great review. Love the measurements and technical depth. Just one remark, you mentioned the vaporfly feels like a lower drop (similar to asics) because it compresses more than the metaspeed. But isnt it the opposite? Assuming forefoot landing, the compression would increase the drop instead of lowering it I’d think?
I was more talking about step in feel. You typically stand and walk heel first.
During the run the loads are all over the place be it depends on your foot strike. If you are a heel striker you’ll compress the heel and have less effective drop than a forefoot striker. DOR did a shoe about the subject a few months ago. It’s fascinating actually.
If I am going to purchase one today, I would go for the vaporfly in Taiwan just because I can get it at a much lower price than Edge Paris. Since Vaporfly 3 has been out for much longer and is easier to find at a discounted price.
You can't go wrong with either. The Edge Paris is easier to find here in Taiwan though. Given Nike's current retail situation here.
I found the vapor fly to have some instability in how my foot lands. Do you think the meta speed is any more or less stable than the vapor fly? And do you think the sky is good for mid pack runners 10/min mile heavier runner?
The Metaspeed Paris series are more stable due to the fact that the foam is firmer. It is well cushioned and very responsive but you don’t sink into it… at all, like Nike ZoomX. The Metaspeeds are both on the narrow side, which could add instability… but the midsole platform is much more stable.
Either Metapseed will work for a heavier runner. It really comes down to what type of underfoot sensation you like to have. Watch my “Choosing the right Metaspeed for you” video for the full rundown.
Both of these shoes are cadence shoes, right? Do you see the differences in stats comparing these shoes with the stride shoes (Sky Paris, Alphafy)?
I prefer the feel of a low plate configuration. I don’t enjoy running in the high plate configuration, like the Sky or Alphafly… for me the data is clear, VF3 type shoes work better for me. I’ll have a video or two at the end of April or in May getting into it… I’ll (hopefully) have a AF3 by then to compare.
Great detail in your review thanks. For 10K racing, which would be the most competitive against a runner in VF2? I'm coming from original MS Edge (not plus) but just want the most advantage over VF2. Cheers
The Edge Paris is going to feel like the OG Edge x100, more stack, more energy return, same direct feel... that would be my recommendation. 🤙🏻
I ran in VF3s in the Chicago Marathon and they were great
They are outstanding. A true benchmark in super shoes.
Very useful information and insights. Thank you
I’m glad it was useful. Thank you for watching . 🤙🏻
If I love the FuelCell plush and feel. Which of the two shoes mentioned would I like?
The VF3. ZoomX foam is soft like Fuelcell but has much better resiliency and feel.
@@SagasuRunning thanks for the feedback, boss. Thats what I felt when I fitted the VF3 at the store and did a treadmill run on it. However, the lockdown of the VF3 feels odd for my feet since I feel like the heel lockdown is too shallow and slips and I have to do a runner's knot to fix it, which makes it tighter for my feet and I don't like it.
Haven't tested the MSP yet because of lack of stocks where I'm from. Hopefully, I can test the MSP soon and finally pull the trigger whichever feels best.
The MSP is a great shoe… but FFTurbo+ is much firmer than Fuelcell of ZoomX. However the fit on the MSP is possibly the best fitting race up of any brand right now.
Are your sample size weights correct?, I have these two shoes both in US11.5 and the ASICS are 207grams, vs the Nikes 229grams. How can the sample sizes be the same when in my size the Nikes are 10% heavier?
Sample sizes are US Men’s size 9, which is my size as well. The manufactures scale their shoes they scale them differently so the weights tend to get out of proportion in larger sizes, especially above US men’s 11.
Does the Edge has the same feel and ride with the SC Elite V3?.. I feel comfortable using the Elite V3, whenever my legs feel the fatigue I can walk and run slow with it and still feel stable on the foot I also tried the VF3 but when I'm at a slow pace I feel unstable.. thus the Edge give the same feeling?
I've never run in the SC Elite v3 so I can't say. I'm sure there are other youtubers what have covered both shoes and can offer a feel difference. Sorry.
What you may be reacting to is the softer foams of the SC Elite v3 and VF3, if you arne't used to a foam you sink into it could be an issue. The FFTurbo+ in the Paris series if much firmer than either foam.
@@SagasuRunning What's closer to the AP3? The Sky or Edge?
@RWG0914 Watch my “Choosing the right Metaspeed” I talk about that in detail near the end of the video when I show the super shoe matrix.
Would the Edge Paris suit someone who enjoyed running in the first Sky? I couldn’t get on with Sky plus because of the change in the sidewall.
It is much more similar to the original Sky. Even more so than the Edge+ was. It's worth a shot if you are missing that shoe.
Thanks for the reply. Loved the first sky even though I over pronate noticeably on my right foot, it never was a problem. Tried the Sky plus and my foot was hanging off the side of the shoe. I’d like to try the new Edge but worried I’d have the same problem as the Sky plus.
@keith3999 It could be an issue. The Edge Paris is very narrow. Much more so than the Sky Plus or Sky Paris. I don’t remember how wide the OG Sky was… I ran in the OG Edge more and it was also fairly narrow.
@@SagasuRunning Great vids first of all, I have a bit wider feet. Is the sky Paris better for me than edge Paris?
Marginally…. Both the Sky and Edge Paris are very narrow shoes. The extra width in the Sky Paris is due to the plate being a little wider on the medial side due to the need for stability under the foot to load the foam under it through the toe-off. We are talking a few mm at best, likely not even noticeable unless you wear both on your feet to see. These are both very narrow, race fit, shoes.
Great comparison, as someone who has never tried the Nike Vaporfly 1-3 as I have a wider toe box. I loved the OG Sky, raced a half in the Metaspeed edge + and loved it for that distance and has raced in the adios pro 2 and saucony pro 2 both in marathons, I wonder if i should try the vaporfly 2 on sale or go for the paris here? I did best in the Edge plus but it's to firm for over a half and the Sacouny Pro 2 was faster for the full but the Adidas adios pro 2 saved my legs much more after- For reference point..I am leaning towards the Vaporfly 2 if i can find my size on sale only because it sounds like I've been missing out. Even now the Nike 3 is just as good as the new paris after watching. Thanks for any guidence!
If you never ran in the VF2 and are curious it's worth trying...but it's an old shoe at this point. The Edge Paris is softer than the older Metaspeeds, especially once it breaks in, but it doesn't have the leg savings of the Adios Pro. Something to consider. ZoomX foam is the ultimate in leg savings though.
@@SagasuRunning Got a pait of VF2s for $70. used on the track 1x by previous owner. It's a fun/fast shoe but for a full I'd be btter served with the VF3 or either versions of the paris I think. VF2 -was a fun shoe to do a 10K in so far. For me not unstable at all, at the at the half or under distance I believe! Glad I bought it, I have a high forefoot IE toe bow area so thought it would be to narrow, but so it's been fine. Thanks much.
I’m glad they are working out for you. Enjoy them!
How many miles can you get out of then Edge Paris ?
Mine blew up at around 80mi (see my recent video on the MSEP)…. But a lot of commenters were saying they are 150-200mi and still going strong.
@SagasuRunning you must have been pushing it lol....there seams to be mixed comments,some saying 100 mls !! That's alot of dosh for 100 !! Garmin app sais 400,once the edge are logged in as new shoes,so not sure where they get that figure from ...... I'd be happy with 250,100 or less I'd be abit narked !!! Fingers crossed 🤞
250mi in them, 150’ish of good racing and the rest as training…. Should be VERY doable. The outsole and midsole foam are both extremely durable. I also think the upper issue was my issue. I’ve seen no one else report on it at all.
They are supershoe 2024 👌 certainly the fastest 🏃➡️
Great in-depth review
Thank you for watching! 🤙🏻
Hi @sagasu running, which has the better medial arch support ?
The Nike Vaporfly 3 definitely has a more prominent arch over the Edge Paris. Though it also can cause issues for some runners as it can be too prominent. Neither have removable insoles or the ability to put on in.
I'm lucky in that I never have arch issues with shoes so it's not something I often think about.
What about comparison with Adidas Adios Pro 3? I’m thinking of getting this for my marathon shoe
I’ll do a vs to the Adios Pro 4 when that comes out… as those will be currently generations. The AP3 is a great shoe (horrible upper) but it’s old now.
Dude living and running in TAIPEI. A BIG THUMB UP
Like your content too....
Thank you. Thank you. 🤙🏻
Is that weight accurate? Everything else I’ve seen has stated the ASICS is lighter than every version of VF.
The Sky Paris is a few grams lighter (4g) then the VF3 so that is the headline everyone uses. According to my scale the weights are accurate.
is the metaspeed viable as a cross country racing shoe? (california does not allow spikes; we do see a fair number of vaporfly shoes at the races)
It says now… even for California across country. I think it’s too stiff and too unstable. You’d be much better off with Vaporfly 3s (plus the waffle outsole will give you a little grip for that California XC). Even VF2s would be preferable as they are a little lower and more stable.
I’d look around at your teammates or other racers at your meets and see if anyone is making the Metaspeeds work. I can’t see them doing better than Vaporflys though…
I'd try the Takumi Sen if you're able to.
@NateCrail might not have enough grip for XC, even California XC.
Asics Metaspeed Edge Plus or New Balance SC Elite V4 ? As my first racing shoe 🥹
Not even in the same league. Either Asics Paris series is the MUCH better shoe...
@@SagasuRunning oh! How about Asics Paris vs Adidas Adios Pro 3? Thank you!
@whippedculture7633 I will be comparing those two shoes in so data later this month and I’ll definitely be doing a vs video with the Adios Pro 4 and Evo C later this year. Stay tuned.
@@SagasuRunning Cool! I'm looking forward to it 🫡
Why was Sky+ plate positioning so different from the 2 other versions? The edge now is like the first sky plate-wise. Konfusing
The Sky Plus and Sky Paris both have the same high plate configuration … but you are right… in the original Sky had a low plate configuration.
Fantastic video again the Asics will be more durable?
It should be. However, it is the big unanswered question right now. I plan on putting as much time into them over the coming months to find out.
Just got the edge paris and I did a small run test in my friends vaporfly 3s. Man those asics feel like running with trampolines on your feet compared to VP3s. Didn't have the heart to tell my friend he bought the wrong shoes 😂
I enjoy both but for different reasons. I still favor the VF3…. But the MSEP is fast!
@SagasuRunning ya if my wife wouldn't kill me, I'd get both 😂. But i was surprised at how good the asics felt.
Details…. Details. 😂
Are you still responding to replies? Hehe Looking for my first race day running shoes. My only & current trainers are the Asics Superblast which are in size 8.5US. I was able to fit them in store since they are widely available. I tested a size 8US which fits nicely as well but my right foot kind a feel crammed so I opted for a 8.5US which leaves me a thumb-worth of space on the toebox. For context, I am walking for hours at the mall so my feet are probably slightly swollen. I have a lot of Jordans and other casual shoes from other brands which are in 8US (my usual size). So I was wondering if what size should I get for the Vaporfly 3??? Unfortunately, I have searched for every store on my area and they are soldout… I have no choice but to buy them online.
I’d buy from a place with good returns, ideally Nike.com…. But I’d start with a Size 8US, go TTS. The fit of the VF3 is much more generous than the SB.
Thank you for this. By far and away the best explanation of MS Edge Paris I have heard. The comparison to VF3 really worked for me as it is my go-to race shoe. But, based on your conclusion, I am now worrying about whether I really am in the best possible shape for Boston?!? Should I be seeking MS Paris assistance or do I back myself with VF3? There goes 3 weeks of navel-gazing!!! 😂
Hahaha… trust your build. Go with what you were planning. It’s too late for last minute changes. Have a great race!
Although by ASICS standards I’m considered a “cadence runner” I’ve always preferred the high plate options (alphafly over vaporfly, the sky over the edges) I think it’s because where my cadence gets so high I prefer a shoe that helps me extend my stride rather than increase my cadence more
… and this is how more runners should be with Asics’s question… be analytical about the type of feel you want and add that into Asics’s suggestion. Very good!
Aren't the Vaporfly more expensive and less durable? Might be something to consider.
A better performing ride is a better performance ride though…
So the Sky may be more in line with the vaporfly 3 as it has a a wider forefoot base, but I do believe the heel is narrower than the vaporfly.
I went with the edge because I didn’t want the plate so close to my foot.
The plate dynamics of the Sky are totally different… it has little to do with the VF anymore and much more to do with the AF.
If the Sky is closer to the Alphafly, that tips it for me. I want a marathon shoe that’s more spongy/bouncy, for me the AF1 is much more helpful than the VF3 for long stuff.
That is the Sky if you are looking at the Paris series. But it is a less bouncy ride than the AF… but in a similar vein.
Will be interesting to add Puma DNE 3 to the comparison!:)
Won’t be open as it’s highly unlikely I’ll be covering the shoe. Sorry.
@@SagasuRunning thank you!
Great review matey! Been loving your content and how you’ve been objective when needed as well as acknowledging your biases. Keep it up! Wanted to get your personal thoughts on the stability of the metaspeed edge paris and whether you’ve experienced it as ‘unstable’ compared to the vaporfly 3 during your initial run(s)? I know you mentioned some might find that’s the case in your video but wanted your personal opinion as well as others here to chime in. I did a brief run on the treadmill in store and found them much narrower than the vaporflys/alphaflys/endorphin pro 3 and wonder whether it takes some getting used to the narrower platform or are they just not for me?
Another question is how is the durability on the shoes now? Conscious you’ve probably had a few more miles since posting this video!
I actually did a 16k Threshold run in the MSEP today and had two thoughts: 1). It’s very narrow (only really and issue on uneven pavement or cambered roads). 2). While it is soft, there is no sink into the foam (compression, yes… but not sink) so the platform feels high and tippy (back to unstable).
They are fast… but no sure they fully suit my biomechanics… need more time in them.
Durability… well the foam is fine but the outsole is wearing smooth, in my high wear areas, faster than I’d expect ( 46km now). No issue as of yet but I’ll keep an eye on it.
Thank you for the props on the content. I do try to be as objective as I can. 🤙🏻
@@SagasuRunning so I went back into the Asics store to try them both on again. Your reviews and descriptions of how they feel are absolutely spot on! I’m still undecided on which I prefer for my marathon pace. From your experience, does one feeling enhance performance/efficiency more than the other? Or is it purely personal preference?
For context, I’m super undecided because I wear the saucony EP3 for my tempo and long runs while I’m saving my alphafly 3’s for race day. However, I’ve taken the alphafly 3’s for a couple of runs to test them and love it as well. I enjoy both the bouncy feeling as well as the rolling stable feeling.
@runescapefreak19955 totally personal preference. There is no inherent advantage of the Sky or the Edge.
@@SagasuRunning I ended up with the Edge after the 3rd try on. While I enjoy the bounding and bouncy feeling similar to the alphafly 3, I realized I couldn’t activate the plate in the Sky as much as I’d like because the foam not being as soft as zoomX as well as the cut outs that the alphafly has for its air zoom pods and how the plate in Nike is more flexible (I’m lightweight at 61kg and 5’7). That said, the Edge still has that bounciness and like you mentioned, a very good stable rolling feeling and is still fantastic for my speedwork and longer distances. I really enjoy how stiff the plate is to keep me tipped forward. Thanks again for your advise and videos! Helped me a lot with my decision making and information gathering.
Would love to hear your thoughts on the alphafly 3’s if you ever do get around to trying a pair.
On another note, how’s your Edges holding up durability wise since your last reply? 🙏🏻
I’m glad you got it all sorted. Asics has not made the choice easy for many runners.
I’ll eventually get a pair of AF3s… someday when the Nike gods bless me.
My MSEP are doing well. The outsole it holding up, similar to the Plus series and I have noticed the foam has softened up a little bit, but still no sink. I did some speed work on them yesterday (3:44/km pace) and found them great for that type of effort. Though I do find them unstable on camber or uneven pavement.
So can said this shoe almost similar with adiós pro3?
Watch my “choosing the right metaspeed” video for specific detail about the AP3…
Would you recommend the Edge or Sky (depending on your stride/cadence) as a good 5K to marathon racer? Or, would you recommend picking up a shorter distance shoe like the Takumi Sen 10?
I’m currently testing the Takumi Sen 10…. But either of the Paris series shoes would work, depending on what your preference is… and the Vaporfly would still be my first choice.
I have vapor 3 and takumi sen 10,tbh i still like nike vapor fly for 5k
I dont feel the bouncy at takumi sen
But that just my opinion(i feel faster at vapor)
I’m finding the TS10 to be a much better shoe. The full length EnergyRods 2.0 make a huge difference. I also enjoy the stiffer LSP. The shoe doesn’t have the bounce… but it’s so direct and fun to run in.
@@SagasuRunning I love to hear that you're enjoying the 10's. I remember you not being overly enthusiastic about the 9's.
My issue is that I don't tend to pull my 5K shoes for regular training. I'd much prefer to do my speed work in my super shoe (right now the Endorphin Pro 3). I might run 4 to 5 5k's per year so I don't find myself putting in enough miles to justify adding them to my rotation. I'd prefer to invest that money in a really good marathon shoe that can handle shorter distances versus a specific short distance shoe.
I feel that same way about supertrainers. I get the selling point being they can do everything from easy to fast running, but I prefer to do my easy stuff in a non-plated daily trainer, then, do my speed work in a carbon plated shoe.
I'm still relatively new in my running journey. Your channel has been instrumental and helping me make wise purchasing decisions. Appreciate all you do!
@torenforsberg1 I definitely had a love/hate relationship with the TS9… but the TS10 is a big ungrade… it’s how always wanted the show to feel.
I too struggle with a “workout” shoe… I just tend to do that work in a daily trainer or a super shoe. I’m trying to find some shoes this year than can do both and other models specialize as well.
Thank you for the kind words on the channel. I’m happy to hear it’s helping you on your running journey! 🤙🏻
Perfect video! GG
GG 🤙🏻
Congratulations, huge video once more! You are in trouble now, we want a full Sky and a vs with Alphafly bouahahah! No really :D
Still try to figure out which one to buy Sky or Edge, I should just bring the old Skies in the shop and try them all together.
Original Metaspeed Sky (low plate) was my biggest love and a PB machine. In contrast, Vaporflies 2 I could only stand them for 20 km before I give them away.
Isn't that controversial?
Hahaha… I’ll eventually get the the Alphafly… but unlikely the Sky. Never say never though.
If you liked the OG Sky… there is a strong chance you may like the Edge Paris.
On the VF2s… I’ve sent plenty of shoes to the donation box that many people love. It happens. We all have what works for us and our preferences.
Let’s hope ASICS sends you the SKY Paris then. ;)
@yiann1sk Ha… not holding my breath on that one. Never say never though.
i think the best comparison was
vaporfly 3 or alphafly 3 vs sky paris
and
edge paris vs cielo x1
The VF3 & MSEP are nearly the same shoe, definitely from a plate configuration.
The AF3 & MSSP are the right matchup, but not my tastes.
The Cielo x1 is its own thing, though more like the Sky Paris.
See my “choosing the right Metasped” video for the full explanation…
thanks man
@@SagasuRunning
Less sinking + better fitting upper = it can be THE shoe (for me at least).
I still like the sink but am really warming up to foams they don’t have so much sink.
Great comparison of the 2 shoes. Would have been even better had you put in more miles on the Asics edge. Nonetheless great review 🎉
Agree… there will be some more vs with the MSEP this year… by then the shoe will have more miles on it.
Good video!
Thank you. 🙏🏻
I wonder which shoes loses it’s pop much quicker
The MSEP? I'm working on that right now. Just passed 80k (50mi) on them today and they have changed, but the pop is still there. I'll update the channel after 160k (100mi).
# 1 Vaporfly 3
🤙🏻
Will asics ever release their racing shoes in a size 14?
Rumor is there is no Japanese person over size 13.
Never say never but there sizing is odd.
Hahaha… funny story. Living in Asia I have found my Size 9 US Men’s shoe size to be about the high end of shoe sizes in many smaller stores. 🤷🏼♂️
Thank you very Informative and feel the edge Paris has longevity for those looking at value for money 😊
Hopefully it does. That will turn it from a great shoe to an outstanding shoe!
I thought the Edge is 8mm drop and Sky is 5mm drop ?
Not in the Paris series. Both are 5mm drop now.
Vfly are too thin in the forefoot for me. Paris edge with lower drop and higher stack will be better, should perform more like Afly 👍
If your thoughts on the VFs were thinking that on the forefoot then you will LOVE the Edge Paris. It’s noticeably much more stacked… in both how the foam feels and the ride.
@@SagasuRunning mmm might be my next super shoe then, passed on the hoka rocket x2s for this reason!
TY!
🤙🏻
Interesting that the last is quite straight. Not banana shape. This increase stability.
I know I commented on the width and therefore the stability of the edge… for for as narrow as the contact patch of the outsole is it’s fairly stable. The last definitely helps that. Good call.
@@SagasuRunning So IF I can handle the Edge in terms of stability, BUT my flat foot isn't wholly engaged with pushing down the foam into the plate directly, would the performance suffer? In other words, most of my foot hits the platform in the Hoka Rocket X2 as it is much wider. So in addition to stability, would this fact help explain why it might perform better also (not just feel better)? I liked the Edge, but the narrowness made me feel like I couldn't use all of my force to push off. Hope that makes sense.
@theodorebutryn8832 It does. I would guess there will be quick diminishing returns if your foot is hanging over the edge of the midsole… the loads wouldn’t be distributed properly on your foot and it would feel very off. Especially coming for a wider platform.
@@SagasuRunning Brilliant! I'll stick with the Rocket X2 this weekend & see how the Edge feels during a longer workout before I decide whether to race in them or pawn them :)
@@theodorebutryn8832 If your bones are on the sole, a bit of meaty part hanging on the side will not affect much if any.
Please talk about walking shoes for everyday 10000 steps daily
Regards
Interesting idea. I never considered it as a runner. Though I often walk 10-20k steps a day, additional to my running, as I live in an urban environment. I’ll think about this and add it to the list.
Though the shoes I like for walking are often very minimal and low to the ground. I don’t like a lot of cushion for casual wear…
I’ve run for several weeks with a Vaporfly 3 on my left foot and the Edge Paris on the right foot - almost no difference… except… except:
1) outsole durability - the Vaporfly has lasted 500 km!!, better than all previous Vaporflies ever (and I have a neutral mechanics: forefoot, landing on the outside, then quickly pushing off the metatarsals insertions) - with Asics, I was running on foam after the 150-ish km
2) the fit - the Vaporfly is much, much better for a narrow heel (the runner’s “light-boned” skinny type), giving a precise race catamaran steering - the Edge feels (and measures inside) as wider in the heel), it feels like a barge on the Seine, unless I cut my blood circulation by cinching down the laces (ouch!)
3) the overall heel to mid-foot lack of pressure points - Nike have had 3 iterations to add padding where needed, Asics keeps on with the “ring over your ankle” configuration
So I’d recommend anyone to choose based on 1) their unique foot form; and 2) outsole durability
Interesting observations I fully agree on VF3 durability. I’ve gotten amazing durability in them, both midsole and outsole. I also adore the upper, it’s the first race upper that has never given me any type of issue. For reference I have a high developed arch and high volume foot, neither wide nor narrow.
That being said I’m surprised as I think the MSEP has a much narrower last and a more aggressive race fit overall… better for a narrow foot.
I can’t imagine running in a VF3 on one foot and a MSEP on the other…. The differences in the foam compression and height would be awful.
Came across ur channel yday. Love the deep analysis. Subscribed and a follow on Strava
Welcome and happy to have you here. Glad my content is enjoyable! 🤙🏻
Your HR in my last 2 parts is much lower in there Metaspeed Edge Paris but you are a tad slower..
Ya… it’s a wash. Plus I had more wind to contend with in the VF3 run.
I purchased both Edge and Sky Paris together. I find the Sky Paris much worse than the original Sky. Very unstable and gave me sole blisters. Reminds me of the Alphafly 2. Will return them. Am trying the Edge next. Vaporfly 3 is great but not as good as the original Metaspeed Sky which I find is the mist comfortable carbon shoe on the market. Comfort over long distance is everything!
The original Metaspeed Sky had a low plate configuration, similar to the Edge Paris. Totally different than the Sky+ or SKy Paris. You may like the Edge Paris afterall.
@@SagasuRunning Thanks for the advice. I tried on the Edge Paris and they feel great!
🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
🤙🏻🤙🏻🤙🏻🤙🏻
call Asics to send you Sky to compare them whit vf3 😀
If only it was that simple… though I know the Sky won’t work for me so there is no point really.
@@SagasuRunning ok🙂i am also vf guy (not cadence runner)but Sky sounds more interesting to me
Adidas pro 3...still the standard
It definitely is a special one that has had alot of staying power since 2022.
In the Vaporfly you are working harder and you like to work harder than you have to? Makes no sense.
It’s about how the shoe felt. I felt like I was running “better” in the VF3. Some of that is my comfort with the VF3… but it comes down to how the shoe feels… how agile, can I accelerate, can I maintain pace with X effort… it is all those subtle things that “feel” better. It’s where data and what feels good on your feet get blurry.
Asics all day every day
Asics on some days… the Edge Paris may make it more frequent though.