Garratt To Toowoomba
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- Опубликовано: 15 окт 2024
- This production features selected material from a forthcoming Express Train Video - Australia production featuring the sole surviving Queensland Rail Beyer Garratt, 1009. Although long out of service from the late 1960's BG 1009 returned to service in the 1990's only to be withdrawn again in the early part of this century.
This content focuses on an enthusiast trip between Brisbane and Toowoomba on 21 March 1998.
Copyright, Express Train Video - Australia, 2015
Magnificent footage, I would love to see more of this trip. Thanks for posting.
Thank you very much for your generous comment.
I have a project underway but it requires a lot more work to complete what I would like to achieve.
I hope you enjoy some of my other productions.
@@mikecondon9576 I ran over my phone with a truck. Can you send me a text and say its you. Cheers, Adrian.
P.s. I'd love to purchase a copy of this BG film when you put it out. Thanks.
A great looking and interesting loco.
I assumed the Qld Garratts were the same as the NSW ones, but seeing the fire being tended manually immediately made me realise I was incorrect given the NSW had (and thus 6029 still has) a mechanical stoker. From what I've read the Qld ones were significantly lighter, less advanced and about half as powerful as the NSW ones. Always good to learn something.
These narrow guage Garrets are more like the African ones, I.e. S.A., Zimbabwe & Kenya, I think.
Impressive locomotive and great views! Though I have experienced a number of steam locomotives in my life, never yet a Garratt.
Thank you for your comment. Please watch some of my other productions.
@@mikecondon9576 With great pleasure! In 2020 a lot of things including steam trains are cancelled so it's a pleasure to see them on video at least.
@@uncinarynin I hope you find some of my other productions interesting. I also understand what you are saying about 2020 but perhaps 2021 will be a lot better.
Then my friend you have not experienced big steam they are remarkable to say the least especially going through tunnels hope you get to meet one or two
Great film. I love the chasing shots. Lovely loco. It's a shame it's not running now, but it is expensive to restore steam locos now, wherever you are. Thanks for sharing
Hi Dale,
Thank you for your interest and comments. Indeed it would be great to the Garratt run again but it is most unlikely as you have commented.
@@mikecondon9576 first job when i left school was at beyer peacocks gorton manchester i am now eighty . Thanks for a great reminder.
Hi David
Thank you for sharing your personal connection to 1009's heritage.
I am always fascinated how this production connects with a number of channel commentators.
David, I would be interested in your comments on other productions of my channel. I hope to hear from you again.
Once again thanks.
Bring back the garrats you have to they are cool
Thanks for the Download, This is Real Horse Power on show.
Great Video and well put together showing the the Concentration on one's Face.
Regards
Thank you John for your remarks about the Garratt To Toowoomba. I appreciate hearing your reflections about this production.
It remains a bit of an unfinished project. I had plans for a DVD release but technology has moved on. Of course, I have a timeline that exceeds two hours at present and considerably more work to do.
Anyway, thanks again and I hope you might find some of my other productions of interest.
Best regards
@@mikecondon9576 You bet I will !!!.
@@mikecondon9576 hi Mike.
You're Videos are an insight into the Old Queensland Rail as we knew her.
I remember the last outing for ever more before closing of the Brisbane Valley line, Went. With my Dad, What an Awesome Journey I think hauled by a 1700 or 1720 Class we were all the Way to Nanango and what Breathtaking Sights from up their on the Ranges, The Sad Era of day's gone by with just a few odd carriages here and their as we passed through Blackbutt, Yarraman and to Nanango, The Once thriving Rail Head's now just rusting tracks, Such a sad thing to happen.
The Crazy thing is that Sooner or Latter Where going to see the Lines go back as out ever Increasing Population gathers Steam and though vastly different in terms of Track Set Up to take Hi Speed Trains I once read that Rail would never reach Toowoomba??.Oops.
It will happen with Electric's leading the way and beyond that the Rich Fertile Lands of the Area Not to mention Coal and other Natural Resources.
It will happen and we will see 23's, 28's. And others Work the Line, The Reason I know this is from a Paper handed to Government about Future Rail Infrastructure and as bit of an Appetizer the Possibility of Velocity Train Diesel Multiple Units working the Downs to Warwick and Stanhope and Goondoowindi in future and all because of the Massive Population Growth as I said above and New Industry, This Information comes from a Government Blue Print for Future Rail so it must be fairly Legitimate.
Regards
Just remembered, I was on the last run of 1009 in the 60's (I think 1965) from Brisbane to Granchester. It was then a BB 181/4 to Toowoomba, and out to Allora. I also got to be in the cab and "attempted to load the firebox - at 13, I lasted about 2-3 mins LoL. What a great experience. Rail traffic must have been minimal in those days, as from Darra we stopped three times for photo shots, and change of want'a be firemen before Wacol.
Hi Greg,
This is a very interesting recollection. You are absolutely right, things have changed quite markedly form that era. Embracing enthusiasts and welcoming their interest seems a long lost interest.
Regards
Mike
Greg McCulloch My dear old mother was born in Allora in 1919.
It has the same whistle as Garratt G42 on the Puffing Billy Railway - must be a Beyer Peacock original.
i think this garratt is a double mountain type
Wow, Hello my friend.. All the best to your channel and hope you have a wonderful day !
Hello to you in Korea. I am pleased to make your acquaintance. Thank you for your comment.
I hope you enjoy some of my other productions and please tell your friends about my channel.
You might like to subscribe
Best regards
I love the paint scheme on that loco.
The deep red colour is known as Midland Red as in the London Midland Scottish Railway. The colour scheme was chosen to match a soon to be (1950's) introduced air conditioned train fleet that were to have silver and maroon colours. In the end these cars were painted the more familiar blue and off white with yellow trim.
Thanks for your comment. In general you are correct about the QR locos. The design was severely compromised from the start and whilst the QR locos were fascinating the class were never really a success.
Thanks again for your thoughts.
Beautiful , great video.
Hello Gary,
Thank you for your positive support for the production. I hope you gave the production a thumbs up or better still subscribed to my channel.
There are many other productions on the channel and I have a number in production at present.
Thank you again.
When are you going to release the full length film for this one Mike? Would love a copy.
Strangest Garratt I've heard was one built for a logging company in New Zealand, by Mason and Porter. Geared, and with a vertical boiler. I have no idea of what became of it.
Always interesting to hear about the Garratt concept and how types developed.
great video, and these `Garrets` are something else, I'm surprised at the many variations in wheel arrangements of these locos, in NSW they had the big 4-8-4 4-8-4s and we in the UK had the 2-6-2 2-6-2s and this QR has the 4-8-2 2-8-4 arrangement alas in my day back in the 50s in the UK trainspotting to see a `Garret` on a passenger was a no no even on a special train.
Hello Terry,
Thanks for your comments.
With respect to wheel arrangements, the Garratts did vary somewhat as you have indicated.
Our Queensland Garratts were a severe compromise on many fronts that ultimately left them wanting. The design had to operate on light track small loading gauge and myriad of other peculiar restrictions required on the Queensland system.
In general the Garratts were really underpowered, carried very little water and had almost no space for coal, just 6 1/2 tonnes compared to the 10 tonnes on most other large Queensland steam locos. They would often run out of coal between depots. The type did feature some innovations and whilst that was welcome, crews did not particularly like them.
Initially the Garratts were assigned to haul heavy goods trains on the heavily graded Toowoomba Range west of Brisbane but they were deemed a failure. Some were sent to work on particular passenger services and were based in Bundaberg for this task. They did not last long on hauling passenger trains. The main reason for this was the arrival of diesels.
Later in their careers, the Garratts found a home hauling freight in and around Central Queensland and were based at Rockhampton. The Garratts were improved by local engineering staff and became useful for train operations in that region.
Whilst not a great success hauling passenger trains, the Garratts did from to time haul passenger services and were called upon to haul passenger specials. So they were never banned from such tasks. So both locals and indeed visitors from far off places came to ride behind the last Garratt during the 1990's until the early 2000's.
The shame of it is that if a Garratt was designed for present day rail network it could have been a success on our much improved network of heavier trackage and supporting engineering and increased loading gauge. The Garratts were just 30 or so years too early.
I hope you might enjoy some of my other productions.
The LMS ones were 2-6-0+0-6-2.
The single LNER U1 banking engine was a 2-8-0+0-8-2. Both from the twenties and both made worse by the LMS and LNER making Beyer Peacock change their design too much.
Has the DVD been released?
The in short is no.
I had intended to release it but there is much work still to do. I have not got the time I need to achieve this at present.
The other factor is investment versus return. A production run in costly and the return is a dubious proposition.
So sorry it might happen sometimes in the years to come but I have no plan at present.
@@mikecondon9576 hope sooner rather than later, been asking for 6+ years now. 😞
Magnificent. Great paint work.
Hi Fordlandau,
The paint paint scheme for these Garratts was based on the LMS colours. The deep red is known as Midland Red.
Thanks for your comments.
Thanks. I’m sure it was not kept so clean back in the 1950s !!
Should put this Garrett and our AD 60 side by side at Roma St station !
The Garratts were used on passenger trains in early times and indeed they were kept clean. They moved to freight service in the mid 50's but still maintained a clean. When steam started to wind down in the 1960's they began to look more dishevelled. Of course at the end of steam a few were cleaned up for tour working.
Indeed it would be wonderful but sadly it is unlikely that our Garratt will ever run again.
By the way this was my reply from an earlier question.
The deep red colour is known as Midland Red as in the London Midland Scottish Railway. The colour scheme was chosen to match a soon to be (1950's) introduced air conditioned train fleet that were to have silver and maroon colours. In the end these cars were painted the more familiar blue and off white with yellow trim.
I also replied in detail about the state of the loco in a response to another question but it seems to has disappeared from the site. In short the loco has many problems and from memory, I think I was told it would cost $3 million to restore.
I also had comment similar to your suggestion as indicated below and my response further down.
Its a shame that we could never see them run along side each other.. or see the qld garrett back in service
Mike Condon
Mike Condon
• 5 months ago
As always it is money. If that problem can be overcome then anything is possible. As for the running, the Flying Scotsman and 3801 paralleled 1079 and 732 back when the 4472 was in Australia.
Thanks again for your interest.
All Ages of people Love Steam Trains
Thank you again for sharing your thoughts. I hope you find some of my other productions interesting.
All the best and keep watching.
really good.
Thank you for your endorsement of the production. I hope you might enjoy some of my other productions. Again, happy to hear comments.
Apparently the model of the Garrett looks similar to a South Australian Railways 400 class Garrett loco, on narrow gauge, painted grey or black and had number-plates on each face of the locomotive.
Hello Olga,
They were similar but not the same. Both were designed by Beyer Peacock but there are a number of small dimensional differences, driving wheels and firegrate to name a few. However, fundamentally you are correct.
I hope you like the production.
I noticed that; 1, the smoke-box door differs and looks more "British", 2, the equipment, 3,the dome and firebox, 4, the position and the model of the headlamps, 5, number-plate positions, 6, buffer frame configuration & 7, construction methods, the south Australian used riveting almost entirely as (maybe) the QR Beyer Garrett used some welding. I also wonder what model in Beyer peacock were they? Thank-you for posting the recording as I enjoyed it :)
Yes, Olga, the devil is in the detail and is seems you have looked very carefully at the images. I do not know about the model number.
Fantastic engine!!!!
Hello Leif, Thank you for watching my production.
take good care of EACH and every steam loco. Never know when you might need them but WHEN you will need them you will be glad to have them.
on another channel i saw a video, the video was shot some 5 years ago, about a Zimbabwe Garratt. Belching thick black smoke from the cheap coal the engineers had to use.
The good Anthracite Coal Mugabe was keeping for his own train...
suppose that guy there must have been shovelling constantly to keep up the he fire to make steam.
what a difference to here it made. nearly no smoke visible out of the smokestack...
Thank you for your comment and observation about the quality of the coal. At the time of this production, our Garratt was using Blair Athol coal. This is a quality coal with an ash content of just a few percent. The coal is a quality steaming coal and has little in the way of bituminous elements so it burns very cleanly. Unlike other coals in other places, Blair Athol coal could be used to fill the firebox and burn freely with good heat and remain long lasting unlike some coals that burn quickly and require constant firing (stoking). So thanks again for your comment Benedikt.
@@mikecondon9576 thank you for your comment and reply! regards from Moscow, the one in Russia. not the one in Idaho, USA...
@@benediktmorak4409 To the best of my knowledge, Benedikt, you are the first person to have ever contacted me from Russia.
I have been to Russia a few years ago and I found it very interesting. My time was limited and I did not visit Moscow. However, I did spend some time around Saint Petersburg. It was a very interesting city with many beautiful buildings. I did see some railways and of course the wonderful tramways including a wonderful tramway museum.
With many things making it difficult to travel over the last few years, a return visit seems a long way off. I hope things will change and I can one day visit again.
Please subscribe or like my productions. You might also like some of my other steam locomotive productions.
Regards
Been on the trip from Toowoomba to the Historic old Railway Station at Spring Bluff. The Toowoomba Range certainly makes the old Engines work. Glad I was not shovelling the coal on the way back up the Range.
Is that very scenic piece of track going to be kept when the new road and rail Bypass up the Range is finished in a few years. I hope it is kept.
Any rail crossing is unlikely this side of 2030 or even 2050. The road bypass flies over the top of the track at Rangeview. I am not certain of the height above the track but it is probably around the 30 metre mark.
So the railway will remain for a long yet. Thanks for comment.
The good old Garretts!😁🏗️🎟️
Glad you enjoyed the clip Jesse
Is this BG currently residing in the Workshops Museum at Ipswich currently?
If so, does it need a lot of work to get it going again?
Hi Edwin,
Thanks for your question. I am certain that I answered this in the past and I was going to point you to that response but I do not seem to be able to locate that answer.
In short, yes. When the restoration was done in 1990's many aspects of the Garratt were not restored at all. The water tanks being one problem area. Many other problems were also overlooked. It was remarkable that the Garratt operated for as long as it did.
I cannot remember all the details but there several major repairs required. A conservative estimate was in excess of $1.5 million but that was along time ago and it might have been short by a considerable way. Whilst, I have no exact knowledge to base this on it would not surprise me if the figure double that original estimate.
Of course, only the expert knowledge of QR could really verify these details.
I hope this helps.
Is this still planned to be a DVD release?
Hello Ausrail Animations,
Yes I still hope to release Garratt Trip to Toowoomba as a DVD. I have time issues (my work keeps me very busy) and a few production problems to overcome. I am not expecting a final outcome until late 2018.
I have at least two other Garratt possibilities beyond that release.
Thank you for your interest and good luck with your productions.
Su7ch a pity we will not see this loco run again
Hi Sheila,
Whilst I have to agree, I would hope that one day it will be funded and returned to service.
Thanks for your comment.
It could have been kept going if the government didn’t sell off the rights of running lotteries to private enterprise. In the UK a lot of heritage machinery is funded by these public lotteries. We are very quickly loosing our working history because of these short sighted politicians, looking for a one off cash injection. The loss of the Forceful is a wanton disgrace, once these historical engines are lost there is no coming back, we only have images. 😔
Awesome engine !
Thanks for your Olly.
Where can I get this DVD?
Hi Exveefan,
I am sorry for not responding earlier but I have been out shooting another project.
The answer to your question comes in two parts. Firstly, I would like to have completed the project by now. This has not been possible and I am holding off the release until 2016. When finished the completed DVD will be over 120 minutes in duration.
Secondly, the issue of outlets, depending on where you live will influence where you might buy this future production or my existing titles. Can you please tell me your general location?
I would be happy to advise you accordingly on where you might source the Garratt To Toowoomba DVD and choose to shop. In general, my DVDs are available through a number of outlets. The pricing is the same wherever you purchase the product. So it will come down to your preferred outlet.
I hope this information helps and I look forward to hearing from so I can provide you with further assistance.
Regards
Mike
+Mike Condon I live in Brisbane.
I normally offer my DVD releases through the ANGRMS, ARHS QLD as well as Col's Books. There are a number of others interstate including the ARHS NSW Bookshop.
Closer to the time of the release, I hope to put out a RUclips update and indicate the release date. Most likely this will coincide with the Brisbane Model Tran Show in May next year.
I hope this helps
Regards
Mike
+Mike Condon Ok, hopefully it will be released in timed for the 2017 Brisbane Model train show. :-)
Unless we get a miracle and it's completed in time for the Pine River show, we actually meet briefly there when I asked the first time.
Hi Exvvefan,
Do you mean other titles or do you the upcoming Garratt title?
Please see my response to where you live.
Mike
Who designed and built Garratt locomotives ?
Hi Bill,
The answer to this question can be quite involved. Are you talking about this Queensland Rail Garratt?
If you are only asking about this type and class of Garratt then this answer will help. Beyer Peacock & Co. Ltd, Manchester designed and built some (ten) of these Garratts under a design approved by the then Queensland Government Railways. As it was post World War 2, Beyer Peacock were overwhelmed by orders and they subcontracted the balance of the order (twenty) to Société Franco-Belge, Raismes, France.
If you are asking about Garratt types of locomotives then the answer is more complicated.
The concept was developed by a British engineer, Herbert William Garratt. Beyer Peacock built probably the most but Société Anonyme St. Leonard of Liège built a number, Armstrong Whitworth built a few and Babcock and Wilcox also built some. There were also other manufacturers.
Of course I could go on but I hope this helps. Feel free to read some of my other replies about the Queensland Garratts to give you more of an idea about other aspects of these locomotives.
Thanks for watching.
Old sckool nothing but the best
How cool it would be to have the qld garret and the nsw garret both sitting at roma st station
What a great idea Robert. I have never thought of such an idea. The shame is is that the QR Garratt is unlikely to return to service.Anyway we could all have that dream of seeing the two locos lined up on platform 2 and 3, followed by a parallel run to Acacia Ridge.
Thanks for your comment.
@@mikecondon9576 its a shame that we could never see them run along side each other.. or see the qld garrett back in service
As always it is money. If that problem can be overcome then anything is possible. As for the running, the Flying Scotsman and 3801 paralleled 1079 and 732 back when the 4472 was in Australia.
Was this particular trip for the Carnival of Flowers?
Hello Brissieskater1,
I am sorry that I did not reply immediately but I have been away for work. The answer to your question is a little complicated.
Much of what you see in the clip was from a Carnival of Flowers tour. There is however, some elements of another Toowoomba tour.
Thanks for your question, I appreciate hearing from viewers and I hope you enjoy some of my other productions.
So your telling me garret is in australia?
I am sorry if I have this wrong but are you asking me if this Garratt is Australia or all Garratts are in Australia?
This production is about one Garratt that is in Australia. There were many Garratts in Australia and a number of different designs of the Garratt principle.
I hope this helps.
@@mikecondon9576 oh ok
Why was 1009 withdrawn early in the 21st century?
+Taurean Lea
Good morning Taurean,
Firstly, I have to say that I have no specific and accurate knowledge of the reasons why 1009 was withdrawn. I would only be speculating but I note that a Wikipedia page suggests a fusible plug was the culprit. This does not appear to be disputed by QR.
That said, the loco had been returned to service some 10 years prior and therefore all of the normal issues arise. Again, I have no definitive knowledge but I believe that the problems with the locomotive are far greater than a fusible plug. Details on what is wrong with the loco would only be available from someone with detailed maintenance knowledge of the QR fleet.
As with all the locomotives, the cost of restoration and return to service is significant and we are indeed fortunate to have a fleet of locomotives available for operation on the mainline. So returning the Garratt to service would have to be considered within the framework of all of the priorities. No doubt, not an easy task and I appreciate that many people have preferences for particular locos but how do QR satisfy all of those interests.
Like you I would like to see more locos in service but I have to trust the judgement of others with specialist knowledge and skills to make the best decisions that create the best outcomes for the budget that is available for a project or projects.
I probably have not answered your question but I hope this gives you some further information.
Thank you for your interest in my channel.
Mike
Mike Condon Thank you so much for replying to my question and I look forward to you making more train presentations in the future :).
a number of reasons play itself out when putting such locos into service,they can be local/government regulations,lines over which they operate ie would the line owner allow excursions since the lines would be for revenue freight and passenger freight,other factors may include emissions policy,coal sinders setting fire to surrounds,oil burners high carbon,boiler condition,noise pollution etc,it can be quite involved.
I am looking for the documentary on the restoration of 1008. It was narrated by John Meillon, and was on V.H.S. tape (I lost mine in the 2010 floods). Has some company converted and digitally enhanced this video. It documented the movement of 1009 from the old Redbank Museum to the Ipswich Workshops for restoration. Searched the "web" to no avail. May be using the wrong sequence to access. HELP!!!!!
Hi Greg,
The documentary you mention was actually produced by Queensland Rail and sold through their then retail outlet at South Brisbane Station. Maurie Fields narrated the program. Sadly, the program has never made it to DVD. It is unlikely to be released in this form as the Queensland Rail of today is not what it was back in 1993.
I realise that this information is of little help but it at least you will not waste countless hours looking for the program.
Regards
Mike
Shame about the intrusive title. Put it at the beginning and end. Spoiled an otherwise good video.
Thank you Paul your endorsement and sharing your perspective on "intrusive title". However, the title is at the start of the production. So I am at a loss to understand what you are referring to. The title enters the screen at 00:05 and leaves the the screen at 00:20. The text, "A Garratt To Toowoomba" orientates the viewer to the story.
Of course you might mistakenly believe that the watermark is the title. On the other hand, I might not have this correct. If I am correct then the following might assist you in understanding my channel policies.
Paul, in an age where people download and repurpose content as their own; effectively pirating content and breaching my copyright, I am not inclined to have material on my channel that does not have a watermark. After all, there are significant costs of producing content and I know that many rail enthusiasts (and perhaps enthusiasts of other hobbies and interests) have some sort of objection to producers maintaining creative control and ownership of there creative materials.
If you think that people do not pirate content and effectively steal my work, I can assure that that there is someone pirating my DVD productions right now. It is a shame that trust in short supply but that is where we are at. Just to make it public, I pursue law breakers.
Of course I appreciate that your comment was not connected to unlawful intent or intended to condone the bad behaviour of others.
I take pride in my work and I strive to create interesting content. I am sorry that you are not happy with the "intrusive title" but I hope you understand my perspective and perhaps just might see what the reality is for producers.
If you can overlook this irritation of the watermark then you might find some of my other productions interesting and worthwhile viewing. So I do hope you might engage with the channel again.
Thanks again for commenting.
The last time I went to the Workshops Museum I think the fitter said that it had a cracked foundation ring. The government is broke so I cannot see it being fixed in a hurry..
Hi Kent,
I hoped you enjoyed the production.
Not to dispute what you were told but there is always a much bigger picture to the story of the Garratt and any future restoration of 1009. Putting aside the status of the Queensland budget, currently in surplus but it does have debt. In other words the government is not broke.
I did provide this background to a previous comment and it outlines some of the problems with the Garratt.
Firstly, I have to say that I have no specific and accurate knowledge of the reasons why 1009 was withdrawn. I would only be speculating but I note that a Wikipedia page and Australian Steam .com suggests a fusible plug / foundation ring was the culprit. This does not appear to be disputed by QR.
That said, the loco had been returned to service some 10 years prior and therefore all of the normal issues arise. Again, I have no definitive knowledge but I believe that the problems with the locomotive are far greater than a fusible plug. Details on what is wrong with the loco would only be available from someone with detailed maintenance knowledge of the QR fleet.
As with all the locomotives, the cost of restoration and return to service is significant and we are indeed fortunate to have a fleet of locomotives available for operation on the mainline. So returning the Garratt to service would have to be considered within the framework of all of the priorities. No doubt, not an easy task and I appreciate that many people have preferences for particular locos but how do QR satisfy all of those interests.
Like you I would like to see more locos in service but I have to trust the judgement of others with specialist knowledge and skills to make the best decisions that create the best outcomes for the budget that is available for a project or projects.
I probably have not answered your question but I hope this gives you some further information.
Thank you for your interest in my channel.
It would take an $80 Million dollar lottery win for anyone to enable affordability for the restoration of the Beyer Garratt - where is the rainbow? and where is my pot of Gold?
Garratts were never express locomotives
Hi Jim,
I am not sure what your point relates to. I have never claimed that were Garratts express locomotives. Perhaps you are just making the point.
You might be interested to learn that the QR Garratts worked Mail trains and in a sense these were a low level express trains. They were not used a lot in this capacity. I have met and interviewed a former fireman (later driver) who worked these trains. In particular, Garratts worked the Rockhampton Mail between Bundaberg and Rockhampton. My father also worked the Sydney Mail with Garrats to Toowoomba. There were also odd and perhaps emergency cases of Garratts working the Sunlander. Most of this ceased by the mid 1950's.
Your point is largely true and probably similar could be said of Garratts in other parts of the world.
Mike
I have veil of steam train
Thank you for watching my production. You might find some of my other productions interesting.