Something I see a lot in compsci programs (my experience) is people are getting the degree just to get a job and have absolutely no interest in learning anything for learning's sake. People complain about how degrees don't prepare you for work and they're a waste of time, or that the only benefit is to get internships, but to me jobs aren't what it's about. You can't REALLY learn how to work until you work, especially since every different company has different ways of doing things. But never in a million years would I have learned linear algebra or calc 3 or physics at an IT job. Without that stuff I would never have the knowledge to do anything complicated with shaders or 3D physics, and learning it on my own would have been ten times as hard and I never would have had the motivation to spend an hour a day for months just doing vector math with no one to tell me what I was doing wrong. So I consider that the most valuable part of my degree and absolutely worth the money. But most of my classmates saw it as tedious busywork they had to tolerate to get a paycheck or a raise. Meanwhile the project management and business classes geared towards corporate stuff were absolutely useless and I re-learned everything once I actually got a job lol. I guess in theory I understand that people just want to go to work and go home, couldn't be me though.
I dropped out of College in 1983, due to dysgraphia. I taught myself C over the next year, using Borland Turbo C. I built some hobby projects, and went looking for a job. I was hired in a few days, and I'm still a full time C++ developer.
This very much mirrors my own experience working in a creative field (not games, yet). Those people (fresh out of school) who excel professionally and last (and are actually a help to the team relatively soon) are those who are naturally curious in their craft. If it's not keeping you up at night tinkering it's maybe not for you. Appreciate the nod towards us somewhat older folk; I for one struggle to find like-minded people in an offline setting where I live.
I meet a lot of people who are studying game degrees and it does seem like the majority of people are just looking to delay growing up. I empathise having been that 18 year old pressured into doing university before i knew what i wanted to do. I just wanted to work and get money at that point of my life. Glad i quit uni early and went down an IT certificate route. On the positive, I'm impressed with how practical a lot of the degrees are. Getting a BA basically means you have to make 3 moderately sized group projects within the degree. It's still a struggle since the gamedev scene of australia is still recovering after the grand exodus of international studios during the GFC. It does seem like the schools are setting students up for the greatest chance of success, but the students often let themselves down and for those who take advantage of their education, there isn't enough opportunities for all of them.
Totally agreed. There are a lot of courses trying hard to deliver good things. I don't think 18 years of age is really a good time for people to take that leap. There are lots of people invested in keeping them off the unemployment statistics though!
I didn't study game dev but I studied comp sci and it was a great experience for me. I did Msc by research and went straight into a job in robotics after i graduated which I got through the University. The one thing that I think some videos about Uni miss out is that it gives you a sense of direction on what to learn. Things like procedural generation, parallel programming, machine learning etc. Without attending uni I may not have a clue about these areas to learn. If I wanted to become a web dev would I know what to learn and study and have the disclipine to study it independently. I may have completely missed out on getting into robotics because I was never introduced into it had I never attended uni. Im not sure if this is the same in a game dev degree but i thought I would still share my experience and thoughts.
@@synmad3638 I strongly oppose the culture that tells everyone they have to make this decision at 18! But once you’re in, you may as well stick with it if you’ve already incurred some debt.
@@IndieGameClinic I'm about halfway through the damn thing. Thing is, I live in Argentina, where the local industry is in its infancy, and it shows: our professors' experience ranges from "my son plays Fortnite" to "I've worked on a couple of promotional minigames". I don't regret starting the career, it has helped me develop most of the skills you mentioned here and meet some cool people, but as the years went by subjects like sound design, game design, and programming started to give way to seemingly unusable stuff like market analysis and corporate management. At this point, I think the only thing of value I can get from finishing my degree is making my CV look better, and I seriously doubt that'd be worth the cost. Anyway, I'm just thinking "out loud" lol. Thanks again for the video, I'm now looking forward to the book
@@synmad3638 the problem with inexperienced professors is the same everywhere. In the UK a lot of courses are staffed by random 3D artists and computer scientists and it’s very hard to find anyone teaching who has been involved in design on a commercial project. And it’s not surprising as lecturing pays about half as much as a senior design role would.
I really appreciate your honest takes. A lot of game dev RUclipsrs tend to focus too much on the romanticized side of creating art, which doesn’t quite resonate with me. It’s similar in the music and film industries as well. At the end of the day, RUclips is a marketing platform, and it sometimes feels like they’re avoiding tough truths to keep everyone happy. I’m here to learn, not to procrastinate. Thank you
Something I see a lot in compsci programs (my experience) is people are getting the degree just to get a job and have absolutely no interest in learning anything for learning's sake. People complain about how degrees don't prepare you for work and they're a waste of time, or that the only benefit is to get internships, but to me jobs aren't what it's about. You can't REALLY learn how to work until you work, especially since every different company has different ways of doing things. But never in a million years would I have learned linear algebra or calc 3 or physics at an IT job. Without that stuff I would never have the knowledge to do anything complicated with shaders or 3D physics, and learning it on my own would have been ten times as hard and I never would have had the motivation to spend an hour a day for months just doing vector math with no one to tell me what I was doing wrong. So I consider that the most valuable part of my degree and absolutely worth the money. But most of my classmates saw it as tedious busywork they had to tolerate to get a paycheck or a raise. Meanwhile the project management and business classes geared towards corporate stuff were absolutely useless and I re-learned everything once I actually got a job lol.
I guess in theory I understand that people just want to go to work and go home, couldn't be me though.
I dropped out of College in 1983, due to dysgraphia.
I taught myself C over the next year, using Borland Turbo C. I built some hobby projects, and went looking for a job.
I was hired in a few days, and I'm still a full time C++ developer.
@@Weaseldog2001 that’s why the phrase is “skills to pay the bills” and not “qualifications to pay the balifications”
This very much mirrors my own experience working in a creative field (not games, yet). Those people (fresh out of school) who excel professionally and last (and are actually a help to the team relatively soon) are those who are naturally curious in their craft. If it's not keeping you up at night tinkering it's maybe not for you.
Appreciate the nod towards us somewhat older folk; I for one struggle to find like-minded people in an offline setting where I live.
I meet a lot of people who are studying game degrees and it does seem like the majority of people are just looking to delay growing up. I empathise having been that 18 year old pressured into doing university before i knew what i wanted to do. I just wanted to work and get money at that point of my life. Glad i quit uni early and went down an IT certificate route.
On the positive, I'm impressed with how practical a lot of the degrees are. Getting a BA basically means you have to make 3 moderately sized group projects within the degree. It's still a struggle since the gamedev scene of australia is still recovering after the grand exodus of international studios during the GFC. It does seem like the schools are setting students up for the greatest chance of success, but the students often let themselves down and for those who take advantage of their education, there isn't enough opportunities for all of them.
Totally agreed. There are a lot of courses trying hard to deliver good things. I don't think 18 years of age is really a good time for people to take that leap. There are lots of people invested in keeping them off the unemployment statistics though!
I didn't study game dev but I studied comp sci and it was a great experience for me. I did Msc by research and went straight into a job in robotics after i graduated which I got through the University. The one thing that I think some videos about Uni miss out is that it gives you a sense of direction on what to learn. Things like procedural generation, parallel programming, machine learning etc. Without attending uni I may not have a clue about these areas to learn. If I wanted to become a web dev would I know what to learn and study and have the disclipine to study it independently. I may have completely missed out on getting into robotics because I was never introduced into it had I never attended uni. Im not sure if this is the same in a game dev degree but i thought I would still share my experience and thoughts.
Dude just a while ago I started to seriously consider giving up on my game dev degree 💀scary timing, thank you
@@synmad3638 I strongly oppose the culture that tells everyone they have to make this decision at 18! But once you’re in, you may as well stick with it if you’ve already incurred some debt.
@@IndieGameClinic I'm about halfway through the damn thing. Thing is, I live in Argentina, where the local industry is in its infancy, and it shows: our professors' experience ranges from "my son plays Fortnite" to "I've worked on a couple of promotional minigames". I don't regret starting the career, it has helped me develop most of the skills you mentioned here and meet some cool people, but as the years went by subjects like sound design, game design, and programming started to give way to seemingly unusable stuff like market analysis and corporate management. At this point, I think the only thing of value I can get from finishing my degree is making my CV look better, and I seriously doubt that'd be worth the cost.
Anyway, I'm just thinking "out loud" lol. Thanks again for the video, I'm now looking forward to the book
@@synmad3638 the problem with inexperienced professors is the same everywhere. In the UK a lot of courses are staffed by random 3D artists and computer scientists and it’s very hard to find anyone teaching who has been involved in design on a commercial project. And it’s not surprising as lecturing pays about half as much as a senior design role would.
I really appreciate your honest takes. A lot of game dev RUclipsrs tend to focus too much on the romanticized side of creating art, which doesn’t quite resonate with me. It’s similar in the music and film industries as well. At the end of the day, RUclips is a marketing platform, and it sometimes feels like they’re avoiding tough truths to keep everyone happy. I’m here to learn, not to procrastinate. Thank you
Oh no, it's been 3 years, I do have "buh, buh-buh-buh" syndrome. 😵💫
Haha, I’m not 100% sure what that means!