The New Vengeance Paladin: D&D Ep.

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  • Опубликовано: 21 ноя 2024

Комментарии • 773

  • @DnDDeepDive
    @DnDDeepDive  3 месяца назад +38

    Check out Faerie: A Realm Wanderer's Guide here! www.backerkit.com/c/projects/the-dragons-vault/faerie-a-realm-wanderer-s-guide?ref=D4DD - SMALL ERRATA: Chef is a General Feat :). I think I was thinking Crafter? /shrug ALSO! I say that we get Compulsion and Freedom of Movement for free at 13, but those are the Oath of Glory spells - not sure how I screwed *that* up - Vengeance gets the (much better imo) Banishment and Dimension Door spells.

    • @smiegto
      @smiegto 3 месяца назад +2

      me: no sorry i cant back this time.
      theres a witch and some cool faerie shit.
      me: well you got me there.

    • @burntcustard
      @burntcustard 3 месяца назад

      Chef would make more sense than any other feat to be an origin feat rather than a general feat, so it's an easy mistake to make!

    • @ArturoSanabriaVasquez
      @ArturoSanabriaVasquez 3 месяца назад

      5.5!! 5.5!! 5.5!! 5.5!!

    • @Lmwpitt
      @Lmwpitt Месяц назад

      Hola - Can anyone confirm whether GWM applies to Smites and HuntersMark....? Since they increase the attack's damage with extra dice.
      GWM's RAW implies the entire attack's damage dice treat any 1s & 2s as 3s... not just the weapon's dmg for the attack.

  • @TreantmonksTemple
    @TreantmonksTemple 3 месяца назад +549

    My proposed name for this build: "Anyone got a spare bonus action?" - if ever there was a build you wished you had more than one bonus action!

    • @theresnoracelikegnome
      @theresnoracelikegnome 3 месяца назад +74

      Just multiclass with Thief…from Baldur’s Gate. 😜

    • @okayhellohihowyadoin
      @okayhellohihowyadoin 3 месяца назад +34

      I love Colby but more than anything this just showed me how bonus-action clogged and unrealistic the set up for this is.
      I think Palis are fantastic even if they didn’t have smite at all, but there are just sooo many things especially the vengeance paladin wants to do with their bonus action already. I think it’s safe to say smiting is pretty much only something you should do on a crit or if it’ll kill (if your bonus action wouldn’t already do it otherwise AND if it’s a target you want dead immediately AND your allies turns won’t kill then after) which is pretty niche.
      I think nerfing the aura would’ve been the better route and making smite once per round with no BA cost.

    • @NoNameBoi9987
      @NoNameBoi9987 3 месяца назад +9

      Still waiting for the Pally Valor Bard build you promised us in a throwaway comment like a month ago

    • @lankarddkl8722
      @lankarddkl8722 3 месяца назад +4

      @@okayhellohihowyadoin Lol it is exactly the change I have already decided to make. Lvl 4-5 can cast Smite Spell without bonus action (this way you have to multiclass a lot to get as good as paladin on smites), level 6-8 ANY smite spell without using bonus action, but Smite spell restricted for once per turn (but like sneak attack available on opportunity attacks).
      Aura of Protection bonus is fixed (since now all feats gives an ability increase it isn't broken) gives +3 at lvl 6, and becomes +4 at lvl 9 and +5 at lvl 12.
      I will gladly accept suggestion or critics.

    • @tiradegrandmarshal
      @tiradegrandmarshal 3 месяца назад +8

      @@okayhellohihowyadoin Is the action economy really any worse than before, though? Smiting now takes a bonus action, but activating Vow of Enmity no longer does. So that cancels out. And then the other stuff costs the same as always. At least now you can Vow + dual wield attacks on the same turn, or Vow + Divine Favor, or Vow + Hunter's Mark, which you couldn't do before.

  • @LeonLJ
    @LeonLJ 3 месяца назад +104

    Suggestion: Make a full build for each new class where you don't multiclass. So now you have an assassin rogue, pact of the blade warlock and now the vengance paladin. I think it would be great to see what Wotc has done to reward sticking with 1 class.
    Great video as always, Colby

  • @odhinnfist
    @odhinnfist 3 месяца назад +241

    100% agree with Colby on the smite changes. It would have been much more elegant and far less punitive to just add language like "A paladin can only smite once per round" or something similar. No need to cut out possibilities for bonus actions, multiclassed paladin/barbs or paladin/monks.

    • @artilerath3
      @artilerath3 3 месяца назад +35

      No need to even have that language. Since it's a spell now, that restricts you to once a round by itself, would have been rather elegant. But instead we have this mess.

    • @Klausbro
      @Klausbro 3 месяца назад +6

      I fully intend on advocating for this in my play group as a homebrew

    • @odhinnfist
      @odhinnfist 3 месяца назад +23

      @@artilerath3 I meant rather than having it as a spell. I don't like it being a spell at all.

    • @RevocerGM
      @RevocerGM 3 месяца назад +17

      Or, hot-take ... make it a reaction. Yes, it'll steal away opportunity attacks, etc - but I think it makes more sense the 'bonus action you spend on a hit'

    • @goji253
      @goji253 3 месяца назад +5

      @@RevocerGM Yeah it at least feels more in line with how other spells work.

  • @WTH13SERIOUSLY
    @WTH13SERIOUSLY 3 месяца назад +26

    I personally think that the shift from burst to sustained will be good for my games anyway. I am a DM and burst is often very frustrating and more difficult for me to deal with or balance for. Thats just my take.

  • @apjapki
    @apjapki 3 месяца назад +54

    Fellow Paladins we are now merely only very powerful.

  • @Pyromanemac
    @Pyromanemac 3 месяца назад +75

    I like that Monty came straight out and said that he talked Jeremy Crawford XD

    • @DnDDeepDive
      @DnDDeepDive  3 месяца назад +20

      I didn't want to out him or steal his thunder :)

    • @nickm9102
      @nickm9102 3 месяца назад

      ​​@@DnDDeepDivethe sad thing is that this means that Paladin is a Better Fighter at lvl 5 than the fighter is at 20 (or wherever they get the 4th attack now) unless they are also dual wielding light weapons with the feat
      Edit: I almost feel that it is a must for anyone that can get a fighting style even casters.

    • @LuxTheSlav
      @LuxTheSlav 3 месяца назад +10

      ​@@nickm9102What are you talking about, a level 20 fighter with the TWF/DW setup gets 6 attacks per round, 11 (!!!) with Action Surge. Fighters are _fine._
      As for casters, if they spend a few ASIs or delay their spell progression with a dip to get the necessary proficiencies and masteries, maybe. The only full casters that will realistically dual-wield will be Valor Bards and bladelocks, and both will need to get weapon mastery and fighting style from elsewhere.
      Just because dual-wielding is finally a viable build doesn't mean it's suddenly the new meta.

    • @nickm9102
      @nickm9102 3 месяца назад +1

      @@LuxTheSlav If Fighter doesn't have that fighting style and feat they are being matched by a lvl 5 Paladin.
      You proved my point the GEM/SD build has been replaced by TWF/DW. BUT THEY FIXED THE GAME, they told us so.
      The only thing that is worse is if you can get a fighting style on a Druid then it is the same thing but with conjure elementals on top

    • @nickm9102
      @nickm9102 3 месяца назад

      @@LuxTheSlav this also begs for high lvl play as Ranger3/Druid15 for 9th lvl slots, double Epic Boon Feats, the fighting style. You might not have a 9th lvl spell but you don't need it in the end.

  • @AndrewThoesen
    @AndrewThoesen 3 месяца назад +41

    Colby - it was some mysterious benefactor
    Monty - JEREMY SAID DUAL WIELD GOES HARD

  • @crazybattlegoose8872
    @crazybattlegoose8872 3 месяца назад +43

    I'm using the help action to boost engagement.
    Thanks for another fun and powerful build!

  • @AwesomeWookiee
    @AwesomeWookiee 3 месяца назад +43

    I heard the Elden Ring intro music during the freakout. Ain't sneaking that past me.
    ...a duel wielding build... bathed in rays of Gold!

  • @ninnusridhar
    @ninnusridhar 3 месяца назад +39

    I completely agree with the sneak attack idea for smites. A class feature you can use once per turn, does so many d8s per spell slot, and you can sacrifice a number of d8s to add the searing effect or the banishing effect.
    It could've been so flavourful and special.

    • @keeganmbg6999
      @keeganmbg6999 3 месяца назад

      Same train of thought here. I’d even be ok with it sacrificing a die to have a rider effect like they did with SA and then just getting by flat damage boosts throughout the levels at much smaller intervals without their being a spell cost.

    • @twinlamp
      @twinlamp 3 месяца назад +3

      It really feels like they made the changes to paladin before they figured out the (genius) changes to sneak attack and didn't want to re-open paladin and use the same framework.

    • @foldionepapyrus3441
      @foldionepapyrus3441 3 месяца назад +1

      That would be fun, though for me I see no reason to limit it to once a turn, the ability to go really nova really adds to the flavour and impact - for just a moment the wrath of your god flows through you to big effect. And as Paladin get very few spell slots so being able to go nova burns them out really quickly - they can feel powerful, impactful, but never outshine everyone else as they are only able to bring that much punch in a tiny number of rounds a day. To deal with multi classing simply limit the size of the smite so it is related to Paladin levels - you can still smite with that 5th level slot you got for being mostly a pure caster, but being only a little bit paladin your smites are effectively capped at level 1 smite power...

    • @ninnusridhar
      @ninnusridhar 3 месяца назад

      @@foldionepapyrus3441 that ends up feeling like you're punishing multiclassing.
      Remember that when multiclassing while you can't pick up higher level spells from other spellcasting classes you can upcast your usual spells like always. So best not to mess with the base logic for the old divine smite
      The disadvantage of not going more levels in paladin is not getting auras, the smite spells, etc. So let's not mess with my baby divine smite.

    • @maxtionhero1169
      @maxtionhero1169 3 месяца назад

      Why would they make a feature for one class and then just give it to another? Paladins are still cracked. Using your Bonus Action to do things is a choice. Just like it is for Rangers, Monks, etc.

  • @Tylerjstratton
    @Tylerjstratton 3 месяца назад +5

    As a life long Paladin main my self I’m glad that “save your slots for smite” has been opened up!
    Great videos. Loved your stormlight one too.

  • @Bacon_and_Busch
    @Bacon_and_Busch 3 месяца назад +59

    Any Dex pally build has my undivided attention.
    Dual wielding Dex Pally? You're my hero!

    • @Zoddlander
      @Zoddlander 3 месяца назад

      I agree! slice and dice!

    • @pheralanpathfinder4897
      @pheralanpathfinder4897 3 месяца назад

      In 5.0 paladin 2 Sword Bard 15 and Psi Warrior 3 was nice DPS when burning Simulacrum spell slots.

    • @carlosmarroquin3019
      @carlosmarroquin3019 3 месяца назад

      Wait that what MM said was the Rangers thing.. your telling me everyone else can... wow.. who new.. lmao

  • @christophertherians2243
    @christophertherians2243 3 месяца назад +49

    2 straight classes in a row? Is this the true Colby or a doppelganger? Yove us the epic boon of true sight and we will find out.

  • @James-kv3ll
    @James-kv3ll 3 месяца назад +13

    Can’t wait for a Rogue or Barbarian build. Your videos are so well made.

  • @WTH13SERIOUSLY
    @WTH13SERIOUSLY 3 месяца назад +2

    Awesome build, Homelander! I personally want to see more builds like this that are more reliable and don't rely on kind of cheesy or unreliable things. Love the concept and the build. Super excited for the updates and all the builds to come.

  • @JudeCranberry
    @JudeCranberry 3 месяца назад +5

    Finally at a point where I can Justify some monthly subscriptions, and I’m super glad to be a part of this community!

  • @christophertherians2243
    @christophertherians2243 3 месяца назад +28

    We know how.much you love monks and how much they buffed them, and bow you told Chris that in your opinion now sorcerer is the strongest class
    I completely agree that earlobe was the correct choice for the first 2024 video, but thought 2nd and 2rd would have been monk and sorcerer, when are you planning those? Always great to see you, thanks for all the fun you share with us!

    • @DnDDeepDive
      @DnDDeepDive  3 месяца назад +18

      So much to do! I'll probably start working on Monk next week, and might do a sorc after that?

  • @manandshark
    @manandshark 3 месяца назад +9

    When you reach level 9, you can actually use Spirit Shroud for your concentration instead of Hunters Mark. It will give you a d8 instead of d6 extra damage, it uses your bonus action once and won't require it again after downing enemies, and it adds a slow effect on the hits as well. 😁

    • @DnDDeepDive
      @DnDDeepDive  3 месяца назад +7

      Ha ha - I totally forgot that SS was available to Pallies! It wouldn't be a huge bump at level 9, but at 17 when you could upcast to 2d8, it would likely overshadow haste by just a bit.

  • @IFailAtUsernames19
    @IFailAtUsernames19 3 месяца назад +23

    "Hunter's Mark is a better spell than Haste."
    - Colby, 2024

    • @StriderZessei
      @StriderZessei 3 месяца назад

      Totally not taken out of context at all, btw! 😂

  • @seerozymandias7616
    @seerozymandias7616 3 месяца назад +3

    I love that the first Paladin you have built for 2024 rules is dex-based. Such a cool character idea that was hard to pull off under 2014 rules.

  • @TarninTheGreat
    @TarninTheGreat 3 месяца назад +2

    It was wonderful meeting you at Gencon!
    For anyone at home wondering: apparently Colby's Paladin Aura IRL has "All characters are under the effect of the Bless spell while in this emanation".

  • @ryanscanlon2151
    @ryanscanlon2151 3 месяца назад +32

    It's time for Divine Favor to shine! Divine Favor is gonna be a very commonly picked spell now and I for one am glad, it was so underappreciated before

    • @tiradegrandmarshal
      @tiradegrandmarshal 3 месяца назад +14

      It was underappreciated before because it wasn't that good before. Removing concentration from it was a very welcome change that makes it worth using now.

    • @pheralanpathfinder4897
      @pheralanpathfinder4897 3 месяца назад

      Enlarge has similar benefits. My friend's monk loved the extra 1d4 on flurry of blows at level three.

    • @ryanscanlon2151
      @ryanscanlon2151 3 месяца назад +1

      @@tiradegrandmarshal in a lot of combats with multiple enemies not having to pay your bonus action for move hunters mark makes a big difference. Concentration free is just icing on the cake

  • @ValuelessPond22
    @ValuelessPond22 3 месяца назад +2

    Glad to see you do a dual wielding paladin! I did a fun dual wielding sorcadin build for my last campaign, and was so crushed to hear the bonus action requirement for the new smite! Excited to hear you work your magic on this one!

  • @flamefyr
    @flamefyr 3 месяца назад +2

    I think what I like most on the new rules for Pally is Smite is now what it should have always been: The Finisher. You always have it in your back pocket to finish off the boss or something that is giving your party trouble and it's no longer the answer to everything. Ita a fair change and one that doesn't make using smite outside of a crit unimpressive.
    I wait on baited breath for the Berzerker build, a build I hope has some burst to but can also just 'Do this all day' vibe. ❤❤❤

  • @Wightwind
    @Wightwind 3 месяца назад +1

    First time ever supporting a youtube channel by joining as a member, and its absolutely worth it. Only recently discovered the channel, and was sold when I saw how much of a Sanderson fan you are as well! Keep the epic content coming!

  • @guyperson7487
    @guyperson7487 3 месяца назад +3

    I was surprised about how much I liked the new devotion paladin. I really want to try to play one! (And eldritch knight getting the bladesinger multi attack is very enticing)

  • @DrenosNDragons
    @DrenosNDragons 3 месяца назад +1

    Love this. I was working on an Eladrin Paladin8/ Warlock12 with elven Accuracy that was a SAD Dual Wielder. You would use a club with Shileleagh in your main hand (pact of the tome or Magic Initaite Druid) and have a blade pact Scimitar in your off hand. Both attack with Charisma for 4 attacks per round. The only problem was at Warlock 12 Devouring blade only works with your pact weapon, so no SAD 5 attack build. You can also get 2 epic boons and a 22 charisma if you plan your levels right.

  • @robertpower8374
    @robertpower8374 3 месяца назад +2

    Love the build. I also realised you can grab Hunter's Mark with Fey Touched, so you can do the dual wield stacking damage spells with other Paladin subclasses as well.

  • @VoxRatio
    @VoxRatio 3 месяца назад

    I love using your videos to get me in the D&D mindset while prepping. Every now and then I have to pause because I'll go off on a tangent due to your brilliance. lol.

  • @Valaris312
    @Valaris312 3 месяца назад +30

    I've never been so early! All of the bots are still here! xD Love the builds Colby, can't wait to enjoy this one!

    • @DnDDeepDive
      @DnDDeepDive  3 месяца назад +17

      The bots are increasing in both size *and* aptitude. I'm getting nervous.

    • @kel8923
      @kel8923 3 месяца назад +2

      This is a bot comment if I ever heard one.

  • @ARSP33LS
    @ARSP33LS Месяц назад

    Taking this build for a spin in a couple weeks. First time playing essentially. This was perfect as I planned to be wood elf paladin. Dual wielding seems more thematic too

  • @mossblomma
    @mossblomma 2 месяца назад +4

    Wood elf vengeance paladin: "they cut down MY tree! their blood will nourish the soil!"

  • @clarkside4493
    @clarkside4493 3 месяца назад +9

    What a Paladin/Barbarian loses in smiting, he can sort of make up for in durability since Lay on Hands is not a spell and now a Bonus Action.
    Paladin/Monks will benefit most from _Divine Favor_ and the +1d8 Radiant damage on each hit feature. You can save smiting for when you're out of Points for Flurry of Blows.

    • @ducky36F
      @ducky36F 3 месяца назад +1

      Smiting is more fun than laying on hands. Worst trade deal in the history of trade deals 😂
      I’m a Paladin I’m here to smite evil. Let the clerics handle the healing :P

  • @PiroMiru
    @PiroMiru 3 месяца назад +2

    Here's a Fun idea: Take Tavern Brawler, use a shield as an improvised weapon and use it with a scimitar. Use dual wielding feat + style with a shield. Improv weps are only a 1d4 unless they take 2 hands, but this should work! It costs you using a 1d4 vs a 1d6, and you lose the vex mastery, but you gain a shields full AC in tradeoff! You do have to be strength though, unless you can figure a way around that! I think I remember a rule somewhere of small inprov weapons counting as a club? But maybe I am not remembering correctly. If it does though, that also grants you the Slow mastery, so that's neat.

    • @DnDDeepDive
      @DnDDeepDive  3 месяца назад +1

      Got this on the to do list!

  • @joshuaclendenon
    @joshuaclendenon 3 месяца назад +2

    Came for the build, stayed for the Deadpool & Wolverine talk. Hilarious movie!
    2024 PHB seems to be shaping up pretty decently...

  • @mirandathomas9004
    @mirandathomas9004 3 месяца назад +1

    I'm soooooo excited to rebuild my vengeance pally 🤩 We'll see, but I think making smites less of an obvious use for spell slots might make combat more interesting.

  • @SomeRandomDude161
    @SomeRandomDude161 3 месяца назад +1

    I love your videos. Even if I don't get to try out any of your builds at my table, since I'm the DM.
    Also your outtakes always crack me up.

  • @dogglesnake
    @dogglesnake 2 месяца назад

    This was a fun listen! Excited to hear more ideas using the new system

  • @tiradegrandmarshal
    @tiradegrandmarshal 3 месяца назад +3

    I feel like the action economy improvements for Devotion and Vengeance went a long way toward making the smite changes a lot more tolerable than they would have been. I was extremely pissed about the Playtest 6 version of the Paladin, precisely because of the bonus-action congestion that appeared headed for, but the CDs for Devotion and Vengeance getting moved to no action cost for the final product really helped with that.

  • @donaldcrankshaw1627
    @donaldcrankshaw1627 3 месяца назад +4

    I do think Searing Smite might be better than people give it credit for, at least if I understand the new version correctly. Since it scales both initial and repeated damage as you upcast it, and it does damage at the start of the target's turn before the target rolls their save, you essentially increase damage by 2d6 each spell level, meaning that it outpaces normal Divine Smite by level 2 (4d6 vs 3d8). And that's assuming the target makes their save.

    • @tiradegrandmarshal
      @tiradegrandmarshal 3 месяца назад +2

      Yeah, Searing Smite got a nice buff. It's better damage than Divine Smite except on crits or against fiends and undead.

  • @wizzzjer
    @wizzzjer 3 месяца назад +1

    That's hell of an opening! I'm hitting the like button and now proceeding to watch :D

  • @Bman6464
    @Bman6464 3 месяца назад

    Glad to see you still making builds brother! I dont know anyone that plays where im living, so im living vicariously through you 😂

  • @Aidscapade71
    @Aidscapade71 3 месяца назад

    This is giving me so much hope for my dual handaxe build that I've wanted to make for so long!!

  • @BunkinBranding
    @BunkinBranding 3 месяца назад +1

    Thank you Colby. I appreciate all the effort you go through to make awesome and entertaining videos. You are the bomb! Maple waffle fan club!

  • @Hatscatsandwaffles
    @Hatscatsandwaffles 3 месяца назад

    Always here for a dual wielding build! I am so excited to see your take on the new Valor Bard and Eldritch Knight

  • @Zoddlander
    @Zoddlander 3 месяца назад

    I like this build and there is also a back up in that the character can be go with ranged weapons if the enemy becomes air born because of the Dex focus!
    Nice build!

  • @James-kv3ll
    @James-kv3ll 3 месяца назад +3

    I was literally just trying to make a dagger wielding Dragon Sorcerer + Dex Paladin work.

  • @iammattis1479
    @iammattis1479 3 месяца назад +1

    SO glad that Colby’s talking points on smite were the same as mine. 100% agree! I’ve always been of the opinion that making it cost a bonus action was the big design misstep; everything else was fine in my opinion (well - except for the fact that I think Paladin’s Smite is kind of a lame name for the feature 😅). I’m glad I’m not the only one, because it definitely felt like I was for a while 😆

  • @christophercox1630
    @christophercox1630 3 месяца назад

    Was discussing this idea with a friend, glad to see we weren’t alone.

  • @umpatte0
    @umpatte0 3 месяца назад +2

    Duel wielding paladin is neat. Ever consider a 2h strength ranger? Hunter subclass with horde breaker, halberd with cleave property, polearm mastery. At level 5 you can 5 times in a round (multi target) PLUS a possible opportunty attack from polearm master which can cleave too

    • @DnDDeepDive
      @DnDDeepDive  3 месяца назад +2

      @@umpatte0 got it on the to do list!

    • @umpatte0
      @umpatte0 3 месяца назад

      @DnDDeepDive senpai noticed me!

    • @umpatte0
      @umpatte0 3 месяца назад +1

      @DnDDeepDive bugbear with their extra reach goes well with the reach weapons. And it isnt a gloomstalker ranger assassin rogue!

  • @bluesaysnope6289
    @bluesaysnope6289 3 месяца назад +1

    Can't wait to see what your new take on the bladesinger is gonna be

  • @sebastiendubois6876
    @sebastiendubois6876 3 месяца назад

    really like your voice. its soothing and i could listen to you all day. Great content!

  • @zebesttfd
    @zebesttfd 2 месяца назад

    We were discussing something with a friend of mine, and the more interesting part of the Dual Wielder feat is actually Quick Draw. The wording of it is kind of weird, saying that you can draw or stow two weapons, no specifics about whether you draw one and stow another, because otherwise that ability is just completely useless and something that most tables would've allowed anyways. BUT, if you can do that, that means that one or two of your attacks can be done with a d8 weapon instead of a light weapon. This is no significant increase as you said, but it's still something to consider.

  • @Notsogoodguitarguy
    @Notsogoodguitarguy 3 месяца назад +21

    Paladins are still definitely one of the best classes in 5e. They were never because of smite or anything like that. It's the Aura of Protection. It's always been the Aura of Protection. Saves are just so extremely important, and a paladin just makes it so, so much easier. Until they rework the aura to be less powerful, paladins are still gonna be strong and they'll have to work really hard to make them suck.

    • @kaemonbonet4931
      @kaemonbonet4931 3 месяца назад +6

      No, stop this slander!
      We're all friends here but to be clear:
      Smite is really good and the goal of nerfing it was clear. Aura is also really good but as someone who has played paladins from older editions it just doesn't work without the aura. Both are necessary to the fantasy and good for the mechanics of game. 🎉🎉🎉

    • @apollosungod6673
      @apollosungod6673 3 месяца назад

      Paladins were strong because of their defensive utilities *and* their front loaded offensive capabilities through class features as a pairing. One without the other makes the class feel disjointed.

    • @ducky36F
      @ducky36F 3 месяца назад +4

      But smiting is the fun part. They nerfed the fun part.

    • @Notsogoodguitarguy
      @Notsogoodguitarguy 3 месяца назад

      @@ducky36F true, true. But we were talking about what made them strong, not fun xD

  • @novarren
    @novarren 3 месяца назад +3

    I've heard "5.24e" bandied about and it seems like a mouthful. I have also heard that with the release of the PHB, the version of the SRD is moving to "5.2", so I've taken to calling it 5.2e.

    • @MatthewDragonHammer
      @MatthewDragonHammer 3 месяца назад

      Give it time. In 6 months everything on D&D beyond will just be the 2024 version. In 6-12 months after that, 95% of players will just be calling the new stuff “5e” and the 2014 “old”.

  • @WTH13SERIOUSLY
    @WTH13SERIOUSLY 3 месяца назад

    This dual wielding thing is going to make bladesingers and stuff like that amazing. The multiclasses are going to be wild. So excited

  • @nodiggityindeed
    @nodiggityindeed 3 месяца назад +4

    As a Nick, the nick mastery almost got me in trouble early in the playtest because my DM just thought I was giving myself a free attack and yelling out my name like an anime protagonist and now whenever anyone does it we say it just like that.

  • @Rufio6814
    @Rufio6814 4 дня назад

    I made this build with the double bladed scimitar and revenant blade instead of dual wielder. With great weapon fighter style, you get 3s on the d4 instead of 1s or 2s, basically always getting a 6 or better on a d8. I was able to get Nick on it since it's a "scimitar." My Scimitar is a flame tongue as well, so 2d6 on each.

  • @thesouthernfire2112
    @thesouthernfire2112 3 месяца назад

    I wasn't expecting to hear Gregory Alan Isakov at the end! Absolutely incredible songwriter!

  • @TeamofLouie
    @TeamofLouie Месяц назад

    Okay so last night I simulated 4 rounds of combat with my old level 8 pally 2 hexblade build and then this build at level 10. The dual wielding dex paladin cleared damage all 4 rounds, even with a critical level 3 smite. This build is gonna life up my DM.

  • @bjpaljug
    @bjpaljug 3 месяца назад +1

    Thanks for this! As you point out, it's not just about the nova nerf, it's the stifling of build and gameplay diversity that's so disappointing (especially since the blade lock is right there with its third attack and Eldritch Smite). I think it's bad when you're often better off not using a core class ability.

  • @andrewmcmillan229
    @andrewmcmillan229 3 месяца назад +2

    Let’s go! been refreshing all morning at work

  • @forcepike
    @forcepike 3 месяца назад

    I played an elven accuracy vengeance paladin and it was really fun! Looking forward to dual wielding being more viable in the new rules, although I will miss the multiple smites per round. Great video!

  • @dominicdwk
    @dominicdwk Месяц назад

    You nailed it, completely agree. Reducing Nova raises the bar for players. They’ll need to work together more than in 5e.

  • @Wintermute909
    @Wintermute909 3 месяца назад

    Whether its deliberate, or just serendipity, I'm loving the synergy of d4 & the DD analysing the new Paladin at the same time! Imo it makes both videos more interesting!
    (Which I didn't think possible......but now I'm wondering if Treantmonk could join and make it a trifecta of happiness?!)

  • @chillycharizard5985
    @chillycharizard5985 3 месяца назад +1

    55:20
    "Definitely gonna have a hard time singing with this cold."
    *Proceeds to sing absolutely beautifully*

  • @deadku6150
    @deadku6150 2 месяца назад

    you should check out a
    1) elf (elven accuracy - recc shadar kai)
    2) Champion Fighter (Great Buff)
    3) Shortsword + Rapier (plus dual wield feat)
    recc piercer feat at level 8
    the build comes online as early as level 4, gets better at 6 and 8. great all around fun slapping

  • @ian6843
    @ian6843 3 месяца назад +3

    Colby, College of Valor is Broken
    2 level sorcerer, 2 level fighter, 1 level warlock with agonizing blast invocation. Rest on College of Valor
    Turn 1 - Cast CME at highest level posible, Activate Innate Sorcery
    Turn 2 - Quicken Upcast Scorching Ray, Double Eldritch Blast with action surge = Big Damage

    • @ALDO_GOODENS
      @ALDO_GOODENS 3 месяца назад

      I didn’t think the new action surge could be used for spell actions?

    • @bronzejoseph9393
      @bronzejoseph9393 3 месяца назад +1

      But you can't use magic action in Action Surge, so how do you do second Eldritch Blast?

    • @solarkhan484
      @solarkhan484 3 месяца назад +1

      @@ALDO_GOODENS You can take the attack action with action surge and then replace one of those attacks with a e blast. He needs another lvl in warlock tho since agonizing has a requirement of warlock 2

    • @ALDO_GOODENS
      @ALDO_GOODENS 3 месяца назад +1

      @@solarkhan484 Oh! I see now. I forgot Valor bards got that feature now.
      Thank you for the clarification

    • @hawkname1234
      @hawkname1234 3 месяца назад

      @@solarkhan484 Also needs Sorc 3 to get scorching ray

  • @chrisminerd5752
    @chrisminerd5752 3 месяца назад

    Hey Colby! Love this and I'm a huge fan of the channel. If I can make one suggestion going forward it would be to run damage numbers with and without 2014 content. I'm curious what the DPR looks like without EA and maybe something like slasher instead. Again love your channel and appreciate what you do for the community!

  • @typoko
    @typoko 3 месяца назад

    It is good to take note that this build scales extremely well with magical weapons that increase damage by dice, such as flametongue.

  • @mikecarson7769
    @mikecarson7769 3 месяца назад

    nice build! i was thinking similar DEX vengeance paladin wood elf, but with single-hand finesse weapon, light armour, shield, and defensive duelist

    • @BinxyBrown
      @BinxyBrown 3 месяца назад

      This sounds great too, I think there is a shield bash feat, I don't remember if it used your bonus action but if it doesn't that lets you smite more often and also gain 2ac which is pretty good

  • @TheAusar
    @TheAusar 3 месяца назад +2

    You had me at "dual wielding"

  • @sinisterplank3113
    @sinisterplank3113 2 месяца назад

    I had a thought, I think there's a good argument for choosing Magic Initiate (wizard) for this build, and picking up the blade ward cantrip for some extra spell slot free defense, and the shield spell. It's a solid pick for those wanting to shore up some of the lack of defense for a shield less Frontline. Pairing blade ward and divine strikes will certainly bump you up a notch in tier 1

  • @Ruinis_Gaming
    @Ruinis_Gaming Месяц назад

    Should also mention at level 4 you could switch to studded leather to drop scale mail’s disadvantage on stealth checks.

  • @charliebrooks1474
    @charliebrooks1474 3 месяца назад +1

    You 100% would be a fan of Gregory Allan Isakov. If you haven't had a chance, definitely go see him live.

  • @Bigryguy95-epic
    @Bigryguy95-epic 3 месяца назад

    I agree with the BA change sucking. As my groups forever DM, my plan as soon as I heard it was to keep it all the same but drop the BA part for the sake of my players. It just doesn’t feel like a necessary change imo. But the once per turn smite limit, again as the forever DM, is such a blessing and feels completely needed. It always took away from mine and the other players fun when a paladin would save all their smites to 1 or 2 turn the climactic boss fight.

  • @mistformsquirrel
    @mistformsquirrel 3 месяца назад

    Oooh... Dual wield dex paladin is something I've occassionally tried to do since 3.0... *I will be taking notes on this one*

  • @Unorbit
    @Unorbit 3 месяца назад +8

    Vengeance will reign from above, let my enemies taste my blade and anger!

    • @woutvanostaden1299
      @woutvanostaden1299 3 месяца назад

      ... from below? I don't it sounded like the cliché sentence wasn't finished yet.

    • @shoganmajere7913
      @shoganmajere7913 3 месяца назад

      you mean until a valor bard / warlock / sorcerer melee build will enter and show you how to bring the vengeance down on your opponents or a Bladesinger / Warlock / sorcerer or a sorcerer / warlock ..... and will deal about 500 sustained dmg in a round
      Paladin is not only weaker but it is ( beside AMind Sorc ) the only class that gets an ability that is rendered completly obsolete in later lvls ( read divine smite )
      coby did a good job piling on things you can add to still do some damage but its a long uphill battle vs. the mentioned builds .....
      top build ( nova ) will be : 15 valor / 2 sorc / 2 ftr / 1 warlock => 20 attacks in 1 round with each +12d8 once a short rest

    • @TheRealZiktus
      @TheRealZiktus 3 месяца назад

      ​​@@shoganmajere7913I'm curious how that top build you mention get 20 attacks +12d8 on each during their nova round with that combination of classes. I'm trying to think of anything, but closest I can get with that class and level spread, is 8 attacks during your nova round with two weapon fighting, Dual Wielder, the Nick mastery, Haste and Action Surge taken into account.

  • @moby517839
    @moby517839 3 месяца назад

    I would also like to say that having one straight class build for every class would be appreciated as it would be a good way to see how the new classes shake out all the way to lvl 17

  • @Abyzdecannes
    @Abyzdecannes 2 месяца назад

    Dual Wielding dex based Paladin is how I most often play the class on BG3, I go Bard 6 Paladin 2 and it's triple smite per turn time

  • @sinisterplank3113
    @sinisterplank3113 3 месяца назад

    I think, if you cast hunters mark at round 1 and Divine Favor at round 2, rather than the other way around, you gain an additional 3 points damage average on the first round. Small, but counts.

  • @wizzzjer
    @wizzzjer 24 дня назад

    To whom it may concern: I took some time to calculate and compare flat damage from 4 light weapon attacks as Colby suggests here, common (?) dual wielding combo 2 versatile + 1 light attacks, and good old 2 heavy + 1 butt polearm master attacks. 4 attacks deals the highest damage, followed closely by polearm master, with the versatile+light combo being the last one. But the difference is VERY insignificant! By 10th - TENTH - round of combat cumulative damage of 4 light attacks will be only 3-4% higher than polearm master's damage.
    Don't stress too much about it, fellow pals. Go ahead, use your favorite weapon and be the frontliner beast you deserve and love to be!

  • @Yabbamann
    @Yabbamann 3 месяца назад

    Unless I read it wrong, the dual-wielder feat says that the bonus action attack does NOT add your ability score modifier, unless it's negative. This significantly reduces the damage on those bonus action attacks since you're not getting the +3/4/5 extra damage from your Dex. This makes Hunter's Mark and Divine Smite more appealing to use, slightly.
    The wording on the dual-wielder feat also means that (I believe) you can use the Nick attack of the scimitar as the trigger for the Enhanced Dual Wielding feature. This means you can Shortsword (Vex), advantage on Scimitar attack (for free with Nick), Enhanced Dual Wielder Shortsword attack using bonus action (Vex), advantage second regular Shortsword attack (Vex until next turn).
    Therefore, there's an argument to be made that Vow of Enmity isn't really required since 2 attacks on your turn will already have advantage from the Vex property of Shortswords. If you do want to use Vow of Enmity, you could debatably choose your 2 weapon masteries to be Nick and Slow (from a Longbow).
    Also, since you're making 3 shortsword attacks, the benefit of the Magic Weapon feature or just a magic +1 weapon in general are intensified.

  • @kallebuchholz2156
    @kallebuchholz2156 3 месяца назад

    Finnaly, a Den based build. Love it!
    But I have to ad that I would find your videos much more compelling if you would build them not just for damage but more balanced or with a secondary goal like ... teleporting every round or whatever.

  • @deanstavru7138
    @deanstavru7138 3 месяца назад

    Great video as always!!
    my only objection with he new build videos is that in new books whatever is reprinted going forward (like species, backrounds, feats etc) will make the new builds void from that point on... Maybe just staying with only the new rules would be better for the survivability of the builds and their videos.. Plus it will cover the people not using both old and new rules, which I think will be the majority at the end..

  • @zSavageWolves
    @zSavageWolves 3 месяца назад

    I’m working on a video comparing different martial fighting styles from the 2014 rules to the 2024 rules, and with my initial math done, I can say that damage is up, across the board. Weapon masteries and origin feats (magic initiate: wizard in particular for a familiar) go a long way, and largely offset changes to feats and the loss of things like variant human. The crown has changed hands, but everyone does more damage (yes, even the hand crossbow guy; vex is a hell of a drug).
    I’m using a generic no subclass fighter for my comparisons, using variant human for the 2014 versions and either custom background or human species to start with MI:W for the 2024 versions.

  • @cassandrasibley228
    @cassandrasibley228 3 месяца назад

    Yesterday you posted a short about dual wielder and my first thought was to use it on a paladin with the new divine favor, same brain cell 😂

  • @williambowen8054
    @williambowen8054 3 месяца назад

    I'm very excited about the divine favor change. My biggest wish for 5e has accessible spells that help gish. At my table, with the new rules, I would be tempted to allow rangers with a subclass to have concentration free hunters mark.

  • @tjstyles1171
    @tjstyles1171 3 месяца назад

    Sorry if it has already been said (I did a search and didn't see it come up), but a quick note on if you wanted to use Dual Wielder with a non-light weapon. If you have a Longsword and a Shortsword, you only need to make a single attack with the Shortsword to allow a bonus attack with the Longsword. Meaning if you are a fighter with Extra Extra attack, you could take the attack action and attack twice with your Longsword, then attack with your Shortsword for the Extra, Extra attack. That attack would trigger the DW game text allowing you to attack again with your Longsword with your BA. So, when you compare it to the 2014 version, you are really only having to downgrade one attack to a light weapon. Still a debuff, but not as severe as it may seem at first.

  • @Kimbrell
    @Kimbrell 3 месяца назад

    I don't mind the Paladin changes overall, this build is a f un one! I'm sure my buddy who plays nothing but Paladin will enjoy this.
    I have a dual-wielding pact of the blade Archfey Warlock ready to go once they release this book. One-level fighter dip for weapon mastery. 5 attacks at level 12 vs an enemy with hex? I'm in. A couple options for your main weapon to give you advantage on other attacks as well. May not be the most optimized but a full Nightcrawler type of build sounds like so much fun.

  • @MarkG-s3e
    @MarkG-s3e 3 месяца назад

    Always wanted to make a dual wielding paladin....great call!

  • @TheSchantz3
    @TheSchantz3 3 месяца назад

    I'd point out one thing to note comparing a pact of the blade lock's damage to most other martials' is that enemies will now resist magical sources of piercing, bludgeoning and slashing. I wonder if you may find yourself in situations where smiting is optimal on many fights because it gets around general weapon resistances. In those cases Divine Favor is more impactful as well when comparing damage against other martials. Bladelock being able to change damage types on the fly may be more impactful than some people at first might appreciate for the same reason.

  • @ThatGuy182545
    @ThatGuy182545 3 месяца назад +1

    It’s like Christmas in July, in August!

  • @Wanderingsage7
    @Wanderingsage7 3 месяца назад +20

    'WOTC hates Paladin!' deadpans in Artificer.

  • @apjapki
    @apjapki 3 месяца назад

    It's one fewer attack per turn so fewer smite crits but Double Bladed Scimitar plus GWM had to be a consideration.

  • @logancuster8035
    @logancuster8035 3 месяца назад +1

    No Holy Weapon at high level surprised me.
    I think it would be a significant damage bump.

  • @valaurus7473
    @valaurus7473 3 месяца назад

    I have genuinely always wanted to play a DW dex-based paladin 😍

  • @stanislausbohmearteaga4729
    @stanislausbohmearteaga4729 3 месяца назад

    I would do pretty much the same with polearm master with spear or quarterstaffs, but I add 1d4 + Str (instead of only 1d8) and a possible reactive attack

  • @oof6267
    @oof6267 2 месяца назад +1

    9:48 you can't take a +1 charisma with the criminal background as it only allows score increases on dex, con, and int. A charlatan, entertainer, or wayfarer would allow that but you'll also get different origin feats. i just noticed this as i was trying to make this build on dndbeyond lol