The ranking looks charging-curve-based only. If we look to regen stability during drive, degradation resiliance and capacity, LG NMC 5L is by far the best, and the 20 minutes against 18 minutes of charging, when we stop during roadtrip, will not make much of a difference.
Tesla’s Roadster used “off the shelf” laptop batteries. They were 18650 sized, but were not the same NCA chemistry as used in the orginal Model S. They were rated at only 500 cycles life, vs. 1000-2000 cycles for the new 18650 cells that were designed for the 2012 Model S.
Finally a somewhat unbiased review of Tesla and the batteries they use. Tesla themselves are very quite about what battery is in the car you order and I really think they, and other manufacturer, should be more transparent with this.
Thank you for the helpful information! It’s unfortunate that the BYD blade battery isn’t more widely applied or available in North America. Would you consider doing a video that explores which Tesla models from which factories utilize giga castings and whether they are implemented front and rear and in which model years (if relevant)?
I am driving a MY with the BYD blade batterie. Another advantage: The great low-temperature battery performance helps increasing the efficiency and range since not much energy is wasted for heating the battery compared to the CATL LFP. My yearly average is ~14,5 kWh / 100km. However, I wonder if degradation might be a problem since Tesla makes the blade battery work hard, maybe too hard.
I now understand why a model Y I hired in the US charged noticeably faster than my own model Y in the UK, as presumably it had a 2170 Panasonic battery and mine a 2170 LG
The LG 2170 cells also have lower discharge power than the Panasonic ones. This limits the acceleration of the Model 3 Performance sold in Europe, which uses the LG cells. Model 3 Performance sold in the US has more power and acceleration, due to use of Panasonic 2170 NCA cells. So it is not only charge power that is limited. The LG cells definitely deserved to be rated lower than Panasonic 18650 and 2170 cells.
Any info yet as to what is being used in the Juniper? Price drops happening right now in Canada for the Model Y which is tempting. But after reading about major range loss in cold weather thinking I should wait? Wanting to use the car to road trip to the mountains in the winter without range anxiety as the area of travel is pretty remote.
Thank you :-) @@RoamingNorway how do you think the BYD blade SR stack up against the LR NMC battery in mildly cold weather? (0-10 C). The batteries are of course in SR vs LR so naturally the LR has longer range, but curious to understand whether it is just better to go for the BYD (and potentially wait and see whether the BYD will be in the Juniper version). That seems as the ideal combination.
The LG Chem is the one with the failures. But yes the old 18650 in S and X cycles a little better. Also the CATL LFP has amazing cycle life - I don't know if that applies to the Byd Blade.
I don't have a super good knowledge of the 4680, however from what I know the charging curve on the Cybertruck is actually pretty good, better than the Panasonic 2170. It can hold a full flat 250 kW from 0% up to 25% and doesn't go below 100 kW up until I think it was 65%. Didn't see that much with 325kW charging, but the behaviour is very similar where it only drops below 250 kW after 20% and the rest of the curve is basically the same. Sure it's not a BYD Blade, but not D tier in my opinion. Although yeah, the Model Y 4680 was terrible.
Cybertruck has a significantly larger battery, which means that the same C-rate will of course do better. If you downsize that battery to 3 & Y, it’ll suck, unfortunately. Anyway, should todays battery technology really be head to head with a 2017-panasonic cell?
@RoamingNorway Hmm, you're right, I didn't take the battery size into account. Anyway, I look at it basically as you said - it's meant to be a very cost effective solution for Tesla, and while I completely agree that they're simply bad performance, I think in this case comparing to a 2017 panasonic makes sense, because if Tesla is still using those cells anyway, having ones that are let's say even the same mediocre performance, but 1.5x - 2x cheaper is a huge deal
@@malcewiczwhat do you think of the range of the cybertruck. I was thinking it would be much better 😢 Not that we are going to see them here in Australia any time soon lol.
@@jebes909090 And I happened to have gotten one. It's energy capacity is only 57 kWh but the DC charging performance is really great in sommer and winter, I really like it!
There is only one NMC battery in your list and that is in the worst tier. Confuses me because this (NMC) is supposed to be the battery in the current (Highland) Model 3 long-range AWD variant? Also, I heard the CATL batteries are LMFP (with mangane).
There are 2 NMCs and if you're talking about the 4680 then no, the 4680 is not used in the Model 3. The newer CATL batteries are supposed to be LMFP, however the ones currently used in Tesla's are regular LFP
@@RoamingNorway Isn't the BYD Seal also equipped with the Blade battery? Because that one is 84kWh. On the other hand, the Seal charges rather poorly. Weird.
@ LFP offers poor performance / kg battery compared to NCA and NMC. Sure you can increase straight line performance by increasing the battery size. But with LFP you will make the car heavy. Maybe future LFPs will have higher energy density. BYD uses a big (heavy) Blade LFP in the Seal. Seal with 82.5 kWh Blade LFP: - weighs ~100kg less than a Models S, which is a much bigger car. - weighs over 200kg more than Model 3 LR AWD, which has same performance. Imagine a 100kWh LFP Blade in a Model S. Not very sporty. Seal = 2185kg Model S = 2292kg Model 3 = 1949kg
![Noob To Max With DRAGON REWORK In Blox Fruits [FULL MOVIE]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/LnBMOinoOvA/mqdefault.jpg)
The audio becomes a little out of sync in the end of the video but should be watchable :)
My friend still has his original roadster. He drove it to work everyday for years. It still has about 79% battery capacity.
The ranking looks charging-curve-based only.
If we look to regen stability during drive, degradation resiliance and capacity, LG NMC 5L is by far the best, and the 20 minutes against 18 minutes of charging, when we stop during roadtrip, will not make much of a difference.
Agree 100 % 🙂 I think the M3 Performances in Europe have these LG cells right?
@ yes, M3P, M3 LR AWD and recently M3 LR RWD (mine)
@@maxbuc1 great, really looking forward to getting my M3P in a couple of months. Still looking out for a used one with ~10-25k kms in good condition 🙂
@ wow! Wonderful car! Good luck 👍🏻
I agree, plus you answered my questions !!!
Thank you 🙏🏽
Tesla’s Roadster used “off the shelf” laptop batteries. They were 18650 sized, but were not the same NCA chemistry as used in the orginal Model S. They were rated at only 500 cycles life, vs. 1000-2000 cycles for the new 18650 cells that were designed for the 2012 Model S.
Doesnt Tesla also use a buffer in their NCAs so they effectively never reach 100%. This extends battery life significantly.
Finally a somewhat unbiased review of Tesla and the batteries they use.
Tesla themselves are very quite about what battery is in the car you order and I really think they, and other manufacturer, should be more transparent with this.
Tesla's current 18650 batteries are a big improvement over the batteries made 12 years ago.
Great video 👏! Haha would be great with a battery tier list from different automakers as well. But probably would take a lot of time/research.
Thank you for the helpful information! It’s unfortunate that the BYD blade battery isn’t more widely applied or available in North America. Would you consider doing a video that explores which Tesla models from which factories utilize giga castings and whether they are implemented front and rear and in which model years (if relevant)?
Time for Tesla to improve their batteries.
Or their suppliers also. But they are the only western manufacturer producing at real volumes
Tesla? They can't build batteries. They have to order better batteries from their suppliers.
I have model Y 2023 . It's charging 250 kw/h if battery reconditioned. Minnesota
I am driving a MY with the BYD blade batterie. Another advantage: The great low-temperature battery performance helps increasing the efficiency and range since not much energy is wasted for heating the battery compared to the CATL LFP. My yearly average is ~14,5 kWh / 100km.
However, I wonder if degradation might be a problem since Tesla makes the blade battery work hard, maybe too hard.
Thanks, this was good information, but I wonder how the different types handle degradation.
I now understand why a model Y I hired in the US charged noticeably faster than my own model Y in the UK, as presumably it had a 2170 Panasonic battery and mine a 2170 LG
The LG 2170 cells also have lower discharge power than the Panasonic ones. This limits the acceleration of the Model 3 Performance sold in Europe, which uses the LG cells. Model 3 Performance sold in the US has more power and acceleration, due to use of Panasonic 2170 NCA cells.
So it is not only charge power that is limited. The LG cells definitely deserved to be rated lower than Panasonic 18650 and 2170 cells.
Nice work. Thanks!
Usually, the battery case is the weakest link, not the chemistry.
Damn, 170kW at 70% is absolutely insane 🤯
It would be nice to show and compare the charging curves instead just vaguely mentioning them
Any info yet as to what is being used in the Juniper?
Price drops happening right now in Canada for the Model Y which is tempting. But after reading about major range loss in cold weather thinking I should wait? Wanting to use the car to road trip to the mountains in the winter without range anxiety as the area of travel is pretty remote.
No info on Juniper. My guess is that it is the same. You can see me driving with the Model 3 over multiple mountains on this channel.
Do you know which battery is in the current Tesla Model Y Long Range RWD and AWD produced in Gigafactory Berlin? (the non Juniper version)
LG NMC battery in both
Thank you :-) @@RoamingNorway how do you think the BYD blade SR stack up against the LR NMC battery in mildly cold weather? (0-10 C). The batteries are of course in SR vs LR so naturally the LR has longer range, but curious to understand whether it is just better to go for the BYD (and potentially wait and see whether the BYD will be in the Juniper version). That seems as the ideal combination.
Seems to have long term balancing issues. LFPs are inherently different to be uniform. Let’s see what they do in the future.
How do you see what battery you have ?
Batteries can mostly be found out about by knowing the type of car you bought in what region
So which one is the best???
Think A Tier for the 2170 is wrong there are many failures and high degradation, should be mentioned here.
The LG Chem is the one with the failures.
But yes the old 18650 in S and X cycles a little better.
Also the CATL LFP has amazing cycle life - I don't know if that applies to the Byd Blade.
I don't have a super good knowledge of the 4680, however from what I know the charging curve on the Cybertruck is actually pretty good, better than the Panasonic 2170. It can hold a full flat 250 kW from 0% up to 25% and doesn't go below 100 kW up until I think it was 65%. Didn't see that much with 325kW charging, but the behaviour is very similar where it only drops below 250 kW after 20% and the rest of the curve is basically the same. Sure it's not a BYD Blade, but not D tier in my opinion. Although yeah, the Model Y 4680 was terrible.
Cybertruck has a significantly larger battery, which means that the same C-rate will of course do better. If you downsize that battery to 3 & Y, it’ll suck, unfortunately. Anyway, should todays battery technology really be head to head with a 2017-panasonic cell?
@RoamingNorway Hmm, you're right, I didn't take the battery size into account. Anyway, I look at it basically as you said - it's meant to be a very cost effective solution for Tesla, and while I completely agree that they're simply bad performance, I think in this case comparing to a 2017 panasonic makes sense, because if Tesla is still using those cells anyway, having ones that are let's say even the same mediocre performance, but 1.5x - 2x cheaper is a huge deal
@@malcewiczwhat do you think of the range of the cybertruck. I was thinking it would be much better 😢 Not that we are going to see them here in Australia any time soon lol.
They are 800V so you can basically take the power and divide it by 2 to get a good approximation of what it compares to with all the other 400V cars.
M3 LFP at 170kw is impressive. MG4 LFP gets 80kw max, also CATL but clearly different of course.
The byd degrades the fastest
Model 3 LFP rear-wheel drive for the win!!!!
nice video, but can you tell us how to RECONISE the batterys from a VIN? we know the BYD one now.
All the other batteries can mostly be found out about by knowing the type of car you bought in what region. You do not need to decode the VIN.
Is there any Tesla Model 3 with the BYD Blade battery?
Nope.
the german 2023 model y rwd had lfp byd blade batteries.
@@jebes909090 Yes, I have the BYD model Y
@@jebes909090 And I happened to have gotten one. It's energy capacity is only 57 kWh but the DC charging performance is really great in sommer and winter, I really like it!
Great list with lots of facs. Please make in to a list
There is only one NMC battery in your list and that is in the worst tier. Confuses me because this (NMC) is supposed to be the battery in the current (Highland) Model 3 long-range AWD variant?
Also, I heard the CATL batteries are LMFP (with mangane).
There are 2 NMCs and if you're talking about the 4680 then no, the 4680 is not used in the Model 3.
The newer CATL batteries are supposed to be LMFP, however the ones currently used in Tesla's are regular LFP
I just bought a 2024 model 3 LR Dual motor, and it has the NMC battery, so hopefully this dude is wrong.
I don't get why they don't just put the Blade Battery in everything.
Range, it has a low energy density.
@@RoamingNorway Isn't the BYD Seal also equipped with the Blade battery? Because that one is 84kWh. On the other hand, the Seal charges rather poorly. Weird.
BYD Blade is not fit for performance cars. NCA is still best for performance and range (high energy density, great heat management, etc).
@tafl-9198Yet they put it in the BYD Seal performance, which has power and acceleration similar to an LR AWD Model 3.
@ LFP offers poor performance / kg battery compared to NCA and NMC.
Sure you can increase straight line performance by increasing the battery size. But with LFP you will make the car heavy. Maybe future LFPs will have higher energy density.
BYD uses a big (heavy) Blade LFP in the Seal.
Seal with 82.5 kWh Blade LFP:
- weighs ~100kg less than a Models S, which is a much bigger car.
- weighs over 200kg more than Model 3 LR AWD, which has same performance.
Imagine a 100kWh LFP Blade in a Model S. Not very sporty.
Seal = 2185kg
Model S = 2292kg
Model 3 = 1949kg
Pathetic political point scoring with imposing tarrifs, it's only the customers that lose out.
Extremely political!
2170 tables?.
4:42 actually one thing I have noticed with LG cells that their power and Regen limits are better in gold cold climates vs 18650 Panasonic
Hilarious. The LFP battery as S tier. Please.
Absolutely goated!
tesla is so behind. thats all you need to know.
🙃