Q&A with Joe Dawson of Bruiser Industries: LPVO vs Red Dot, Offset Red Dots, Do All Length and more
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- Опубликовано: 30 июл 2024
- After our first day on range with Joe I got to sit down with him to ask him some the questions I get most often.
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Chapters:
0:00 Intro
1:05 Joe's Background
2:12 LPVO vs Red Dot
7:53 Offeset Red Dots
16:45 Do all length?
24:05 What to look for…
27:14 Kit Considerations
34:23 What is the legacy you want to leave?
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I chose an LPVO solely based on my astigmatism, 16 inch BCM rifle and a Vortex 1-6, perfect for what I need.
I ain't skipping guac. Ever.
Opinion: As a marine who was a designated marksman, I tell everyone who can afford a good LPVO and the time to fully learn it. For SHTF(that’s what most people ask anyways)
They are more expensive than they are more to learn but it’s all very doable.
Why: You can’t go to any environment and not encounter 300-700 yard line of sight. If you have a red dot in the middle of New York somebody who takes a position inside of the building and has a scope will 100% pick you off if given the opportunity and motivation.
In close range environments inside of 30 yards you don’t need to have perfect Eye placement behind the scope you just need to see the center of the scope to hit a target. Beyond 30 yards you will need to take a little extra time to get better but still not perfect eye placement. At 100 yards you will need perfect eye placement and it’s really not hard to get with practice which if you’re investing in LPVO you need to invest into some practice.
Everyone has an opinion and value what you just said.
@8w7 naw, go get a range finder and laser the distances around your house. You should be able to hit at those distances. Even in suburbia you have 200-300+ yards easily. For example My subdivision entrance is 500 yards long. The only time CQB is reasonable is in the massive apartment complexes.
@8w7 “Murphy’s law rules all” (anything that can go wrong will go wrong) a LPVO with a experienced shooter is just as fast as a red dot USPSA proves this many many times over. It’s literally capability that only cost extra ammo which you need to shoot anyway as a gun owner for weapons familiarization.
If someone is doing route denial with accurate fire or is taking pot shots at you and your family because they want your shit you have to be able to put them down no matter the distance.
Adversely, it could be a dude who was very unprepared supply wise and has now resorted to killing and looting for his family with his trekking hunting rifle. A desperate Persen is going to take whatever advantage they can get, and for plenty of people that is the skill of shooting other people at distance. Just look at the UT Austin shooter, if police weren’t a thing anymore he would have control of that area indefinitely and easily loot anyone who enters that area. Those cops had 100 yard capability and we’re screwed too, it took dozens of officers to be human bait just to get some officers in the tower to kill the one guy.
Breaking contact is a horrible idea when you could put down the threat. If someone is a threat to your family once they’ll be one again in desperate times.
Conclusion: theirs 0 reason to not have a LPVO.
@8w7 a LPVO is so much better than a red dot and magnifier….
There’s also a reason why SOCOM only slap EXPS on their guns for ship born ops and hasty raids now, and that’s not even everybody because they still have people post it outside. The building with LPVOs. Pretty much everybody is using the LPVO instead now. SOCOM, SO Marines, Big army, and Big Marine Corps are all moving the way of a LPVO or have already switched. So you don’t have a a point by bringing it up. You’re also bringing that up like you’re going to be inside a tiny space forever, you won’t be, and they wouldn’t pick their short uppers if they’re going to be outside 50% of the time.
It’s not hard to get proper eye relief, and shooting from unwieldy positions is a completely unreasonable requirement when we are talking about protecting your home and/or family. If you used one, you would know the only positions where it gets difficult is when you’re laying down on your weak side.
Passively aiming is just as hard as looking down LPVO, it’s why laser aiming modules dominate that sphere still. So again that’s a non-issue if you’re talking about peak performance like you have been. There is zero real benefit in saving 7 ounces and getting a dot and Magnifier or adding weights and getting a EXPS and magnifier. It’s all trade-offs, it’s not better or worse.
Again, the statement “better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it” wins out, for civilian and military. 5x magnification is not enough for most shooters to accurately identify targets at 500+ yard. He requires more magnification, for example a fireteam or Marines in Sangin Afghanistan in 2007 all got NJPed for returning fire at the wrong group of people at 450 yards who turned out to be all women. From that point 8x or more had be used to identify at those ranges per SOP
@8w7 no I get what you’re saying I just think it’s not accurate for the situation. At the court of your argument, you think you are only going to be in close 100% of the time. That is simply not true. Because even if it is 50% of the time, there is no reasonable benefit of having a close in only optic over a versatile optic that can do both just as good.
Your argument doesn’t have a leg to stand on because its core is so flawed. Specializing weapons in close in only encounters is a horrible thing to do when your encounters can be at any distance. We aren’t talking about military or police. We are talking about civilians without rule of law, having to kill other civilians for survival. This is at home defense. This is defense of your life.
SOCOM still uses LPVOs inside buildings when they have to go to the building on foot or they don’t have a set position inside or outside the building. It’s also a preference thing between the individual operator and most will pick a LPVO if they don’t 100% know that they will be inside 100% of the time. So using their logic, a red dot or holographic is a bad idea…
Passive aiming is far from the future, considering most who use night vision also use laser aiming modules because it takes a lot more practice to shoot passively than to shoot with a laser. I’ve mastered both I would know.
It is not more versatile, since you have less magnification less field of view, and no additional benefits besides passively aiming, which most won’t even do. It’s also easier to passively aim with a 12 o’clock red dot on a LPVO then a 1.93 dot.
If you need more situational, examples look at Katrina after and its distances that people we’re dealing with. No modernize the population that all have AR 15s who have magnification 70% of the time. Not everybody can stay in place in that situation either so they have to move outside their house. So you would be at a severe disadvantage if you left your house. If somebody has to feed their family and they see you and your family all with backpacks on trying to run away, they will 100% shoot you because all you are to them is a supply opportunity. You’ve already cleared buildings with M16s, it’s not that much harder to clear buildings with a LPVO too. Ive done with a MK12 and point shooting where I didn’t even use the scope, I was not less efficient than the homies with M4s because I put in the effort with that weapon system.
It’s also not even 2 pounds dude it’s one and a half if you’re buying a quality scope, and a quality mount like reptila, Badger, or Leap. My NF 1-8, T2 and mount is 27 ounces with caps and ARDs. That’s not that heavy.
Joe is good stuff did a weekend with him at K&M my buddies gun went down Joe offered his gun and ammo for the rest of the weekend! That was like five years ago and he still talks about it to this day how awesome Joe was!
A good way to frame it is:
If you’re asking the LVPO vs. RD question, pick the RD…
If a LVPO applies to you, you already know.
First time learning about Joe, but this was an awesome interview. I'll definitely look for his stuff in the future.
What a cool, inspirational conversation! Thanks!!!
That last response was solid Gold, thanks Joe
Great video. Stay RAD!
Enjoyed this…👍
I can only imagine how many times this guy gets asked these questions!!
Superb video Jim - count your lucky stars on this one dude - - humble, realistic, real-world - not blowing the N-Seal Horn. He hardly even mentioned the seals. Really good information.
Would love to see some long range dry fire drills!
I watch the episode before. Now I'm watching this your information is priceless. You're so right on ammunition selection. Barrel selection trigger selection. As long as you know how to utilize you're going to make the hits. I have A 223 wild precision Barrel made from Green Mountain. I would love to own 3 of them Just in case one gets burnt out. That's how much I love them and their quality. Now considering their new military contract for barrels it's almost impossible to get. But my 18" mark 12 consistent hits out to 500 the size of a baseball. It is just what that gun does that makes me feel good For a retired marine And I love to stretch out that mark 12 It brings me back to the days . For some reason that thing loves 60 grain V Max. And at 100 yd 5 shots Are all within the size of a dime so I could just imagine what it would do with the 77 grain. I have never tried it but it's something I have wanted to do hard to get your hands on 77 grain here in Maine. Awesome show brothers keep up the good work. Sincerely the Baker family in Maine. semper fi
So the main reason I run a 1-6 is the etched reticle. I have an astigmatism and the dot on a red dot isn’t a dot. I do have a couple dot guns but I use my gun with the 1-6 most these days. Good to see and hear your wisdom, Joe.
Rick
Sirs, THANK YOU
Please come to Dallas Fort Worth. Preferably in the fall thru spring. Summer is brutal.
I think the information is great
Great information when are y'all planning on coming to Mississippi for a range day?
Thank you.
Prior 0311, have finally settled back on the Acog, super simple anyone can use with little teaching, more so than an LPVO
I have a 1-8 on one of my ar’s but I shoot percision rifle (bolt gun) so I understand ballistics. If you don’t understand ballistics and how different bullets and calibers are affected then it’s going to be hard to run a LPVO effectively. Plinking at the range is different. Magnification doesn’t make you shoot better it just makes you see better. A LPVO is great if you know how to run one but a good red dot is also very affective.
I like the .5-.75” high arc. And that’s more based on caliber and sight height… I’m with that 👍🏻👍🏻
Would so love a DFW visit
Barrel length is an interesting discussion. I now shoot a 20" barrel, and I'm finding that it reduces penetration, but increases range, expansion, etc. Funny how that works. A 556 in a 20" explodes and dumps energy quickly.
That last bit about aging when you get out, so big. Too many tactical dudes with really gwot experience teaching it like present day doctrine
Definitely interested in attending a class if he teaches one in the DFW area….
Just actually found this but hell yeah I'd like to train with him.
Good lord, the commercials 😮💨
Jim, I noticed your IG your using a canted red dot while the video said you prefer 12 o’clock. What changed?
Ok, what if we run a GBRS raised optic mount? When we zero can we expect about the same holds, or will they be way different because of the optic height over the bore?
Kevin from field craft said the same thing. 14.5 for the one do it all rifle
I see his company is going two classes in my area in stew months. I have two rifles I could use (no bipods for either). One is MCX 5,56 with red dot and magnifier, other is an M1A 16” with s scout scope (with bdc but that’s it gor the reticle). Which do you think would be best for the precision class. Really if I could I would like to take all the classes. Thanks
Bruiser can u give me some options on ammo for 556 when over penetration is a concern. Most rounds I've found are all about penetration obviously for deer hunting u want enter and exit holes but I'm having a hard time (other than frangible) for apartment/home defense. What are some good rounds?
🙋🏻♂️ put me down for Joe coming to DFW!! I want to shoot gooder.
There’s a lot of ballistic apps out there. Some are garbage and some are really user friendly. Do you or Joe recommend one in particular?
40:55 **Paging Tim Kennedy and Dakota Meyer** 🤣
This is alot of dudes
@@griffey11 lol true. Those are just the top 2 I could think of.
I'm an entry grade larper at best...but as a seasoned hunter I fully understand the importance of ammo selection. Unfortunately many hunters in my area don't. They just grab a box I'm whatever caliber their rifle is chambered in and head to the woods. Or even worse, they zero the rifle with cheap range ammo and then just load up their hunting ammo. Sure it'll likely be close to the POI but it usually ain't the same.
I’m curious what your opinion is after all this time since you’ve done your 13.9 vid
Anyone else get a We The People holster ad less than a minute after starting the video?
The penetration subject is one that i think still has a lot of bad information out there. People think "oh, 9mm is less powerful, so will penetrate less than 5.56", when there's so much more goes into it than that. Bullet design is far more important than caliber. Some of Hornady's 55gr self defense stuff has insanely low pen.
Great video but way to many ads. Does RUclips control those or the channel?
Yeeeeee
top mounted vs angled red dot for lpvo on a 16in AR if the gun is also going to be used under night vision?
Top
D*** I wish you would come to Maine I think you would be a h*** of a teacher for people that are willing to listen
If you're running a 1.57" mount is a 50/200 yard zero ok? I understand with the taller mounts the angle is increased so a 100 yard zero sounds better. At least I think I'm understanding correctly. lol
If you run the data for your gun and optic setup you’ll see that the 25/300 and 50/200 really doesn’t exist as they are based off a m16 shooting military ball. My whole thing is you can get a inexpensive ballistic app and put in your data and understand what each zero gives you or takes away and then verify it on the range
@@bruiserindustries Yeah, that's typically what I do, or started to do. I use Strelok Pro and then try to verify at the range. Thanks!
@@ckkevin9620 for strelok make sure you measure from your bore to your optic center line, it’s not just the optic height even though it asks optic height. 50/200 is close but it depends on your barrel and the ammo. When you add height to your optic all of the 25/300 50/200 all change.
Get some.
So many dudes in their mom's basements are losing their crap right now.
"WhAt dO SeAlS No AboUt ReCCe MiShuNs"
Irons are always needed. No batteries, no glass, no fog, nothing but reliability when glass and batteries fail. That said, all i have is an lvpo and offset iron backups. I may get an offset red dot... redundancy.
What ballistic calculator app do you recommend?
GeoBallistics
Doesnt your flashlight pose more of an issue than a 45° offset rds? Never ran a vtac barricade, so I am curious.
its the position of where you balance the rifle and the barricade usually sits. We typically put the barricade fairly close to the Maxwell which is around where most offsets end up sitting.
@@bruiserindustriesllc I did not factor in balance. This makes a lot of sense now. Ty for responding.
The question shouldnt be how much capability do you want in an optic, its how much training do you want to do with an optic.
Binoculars… been around for a long long time…
I just stick with the 16. No stupid atf. No illegal over price tax stamps.
I'm a simple man with other stuff I gotta worry about. Don't have time to invest in long range precision and building that skill set. A red dot/holographic with a 3x magnifier will do the job for most applications. If I reallly want to do mid-range stuff, an acog or a prisim with BDR will suit my fancy, less learning.
The more I think about it, for end of the world scenario and most SHTF scenarios for that matter, an LPVO really isn't a good choice.
The " goon" shit is mad goober.
Lpvo doesn’t even need batteries so that point is moot.
I do feel like a lot of guys running 1-6s or 1-8s would be far better served with an ACOG+dot combo. Just simply less sh-t to deal with. Personally, i don't think i can think of a use case for a mid-range carbine where i would put only an LPVO on it, I'd always want a dot as a close range tool. I'm always paranoid that i'll knock my scope lever off its 1x setting when i need it most. And this is obviously for a 'do all, SHTF' style rifle.
For general personal/home defense, truck gun, etc, dot and magnifier all the way.
100%. I just want a low mount for an enclosed emitter dot on an acog
Completely different point of view for offset from his other video lol
Not really
What kind of sticks are you guys smoking ?
Padron 1926
Correction...WAY too many commercials
Is... is he whining about not being able to threaten people with death by pointing a rifle at them?
Too many commercials
Too long to watch it thru after 16 min. As far as piggyback or offset red dot, another thing to keep in mind is nv goggles. If you want to have passive nv capability, offset is f-ing worthless. You have to go piggyback. Also, if you to switch hands due to available cover, offset is again worthless. Again, I didn’t watch all the way thru, but if this “expert” didn’t mention either of my points, he’s not much of an expert.