Hi Bishop Barron...You probably don't remember me, but a year or two ago, I followed & participated fairly intensively in the discussions surrounding your videos. In particular, your expositions of St Thomas Aquinas' theology opened my eyes to the depth & beauty of Catholic Doctrine (which led to a sort of "crisis of faith", as I had been pretty Calvinistic, and had been taught the ridiculous notion that the Catholic Church "preached another Gospel"). Since then, I'd been pretty seriously ill, and was actually baptized by a local priest in the hospital (was undiagnosed for quite a while, but thankfully, it turned out to be something much less serious than the initially suspected ALS or MSA [likely, it was "Gilian Barre Syndrome], and I'm nearly completely recovered). Had my first confession yesterday. God bless you, Your Excellency.
@@BishopBarron Hi Bishop! Can you please review the movie Cloud Atlas? It really tackles on the intermingling of free will and destiny, the synchronicity in every action that we commit.
God bless you Bishop Thanks to you I've returned to the Catholic church, after years of being an atheist, Jordan Peterson was the man that made the holes on my "bufferself" then I began to learn more about philosophy an the arguments of God's existence thanks to William Lane Craig and others, it was like more than a year ago then I studied about the history of the church and began reading the Bible, and I came to the conclusion that the Catholic church is the REAL church of Christ. Thanks to you and this podcast that I decided to go back to the church two months ago and I will begin confirmation the next Saturday 🔝 Thanks for all that you do in your work of evangelization, greetings from Costa Rica👋
Of, course, God Jesus - who is also God Yahweh - gave free will to humans a n d to the tectonic plates. They move about whenever they feel like it, just like the hurricanes and the tsunamis. Hall-El-u-Yahweh-Jesus-Holy Ghost-God, the FEARFUL TRINITY.
@Jarrid Gable I recommend you to look for Scott Hahn, Steven Ray, Matthew Leonard (He has a really good podcast called The Art of Catholic), Jimmy Akin, and Catholic Answers, they have a lot of books about the church and apologetics Keep it up brother, and God bless
I take it, the "Catholic" church doesn't have a specific answer to the Freewill vs Determinism question. Meaning, one can be a Catholic and believe either one. Same as the Protestants, is that about right?
Was interested in getting Bishop Barron's take on Erasmus and where he fits into the Catholic picture as well as his dialogues with Luther. This does shed some light on that
I work in the space field and have generally considered myself a man of science since I was a boy. Yet I didn't see a conflict between that and Faith. I'd like to see more videos reconciling the two.
The Teaching Company produces adult continuing education videos. You may find their course, "Science and Religion" presented by Lawrence Principi quite interesting. Dr,. Principi may have some YT offerings as well.
*"BY ALL MEANS they try to hold me secure who love me in this world. But it is otherwise with thy love which is greater than theirs; thou keepest me free.* *Lest I forget them they never venture to leave me alone. But day passes after day and thou are not seen.* *If I call not thee in my prayers, if I keep not thee in my heart, thy love for me still waits for my love."* - Rabindranath Tagore (GITANJALI - 32) 20th century Indian Poet, Tagore won the Nobel Peace Prize in Literature, for GITANJALI, a collection of poems.
Hi father...im a college student taking up Information Design/visual arts i also like bob dylan and my favorite song is Knocking on Heavens door, and Mr Tambourine man. Try listening to King Krule Easy Easy i hope you love it as well. Anyways I have always been going back to this show/podcast for insights. I have shared the movie playlist to my friends who study film in college, and the insights you have on film are of great help. Also i share this with my dad and friends every time i have the opportunity. Im part of Christ's Youth in Action and the Philippines love you because you share the truth and continue to struggle to remain in it. We love you Word on Fire, and all the servants of the word do as well. May God bless you all in everything that you do. We pray Mama Mary keeps us all constantly true.
Hi Bishop Barron, I came to faith in Christ last year and for the past while have been seriously looking into the Catholic faith. As a result of this, I have found myself down various Catholic internet wormholes, including TnT's channel. While I am naturally much more drawn to your presentation of the faith, their arguments seem quite convincing. I do not know whether it is my own selfishness, or my perceptive intuition, that "wants" them to be wrong. But I lack the arguments to articulate why they are/or not accurately presenting the faith and the modernism which has affected it. This is why it would be enormously helpful for me and other new Catholics if you could talk with them. It is very overwhelming to try to parse through disagreements within the Church when I am only very new to it. Even though you may think they are unworthy of debate, newbies like me do not yet understand why this is the case. God bless you
Thanks for being a solid, pastoral, intelligent voice during these times when some are hawking bizarre conspiracy theories for profit and promoting division at a time when we need prayer and unity.
solid? not a chance in the h*ll that Bishop Barron may or may not believe in. Have you read Bella Dodd's "School of Darkness?" she personally did what you seem to be alluding to as "conspiracy."
@@JPX7NGD Instead of regurgitating what others claim Bishop Barron believes about hell - read it for yourself: www.wordonfire.org/hope/ You bring up a good point about Bella Dodd, although never proven, at least some of her claims are likely true (that the Soviets planted some men in the Catholic Church). I heard a historian say 99% of conspiracy theories are false. Dodd may be the 1% that is true. Some samples of the others that are not true or at least very questionable: The Mafia killed Kennedy. The Freemasons work for the Vatican to infiltrate Protestant churches (and vice versa). The American government took down the World Trade Center. Area 51 houses dead aliens. A secret Jewish council runs the world's finances. The Catholic Communion wafer is a secret symbol for the Sun God. The Illuminati control just about everything. Pope Francis is a Masonic Manchurian candidate. The Catholic Church is trying to take over America via immigration and a high birth rate. Jesuits have a secret plan to murder Freemasons and Protestants in Britain. I could go on all day. Very Very few conspiracy theories have ever turned out to be true - many are clever hoaxes or just a natural defense mechanism to blame what we can't explain or don't want to face, on a boogeyman (or scapegoat). Some promote them to make $$$
People do not have free will. People are forced to think and do the types of things that their type of genetics and their types of life experiences forces them to think and do throughout their life. Who and how someone happens to be is an extremely unfair unjust lottery that is dependent on what type of genetics that they happen to have and depending on what types of life experiences that they happen to have throughout their life. And no matter if we were created by nature or by aliens or by a god or gods, people are victims of existing and being the flawed and fallible way that it or they created us. And people are victims of existing and suffering against their will and I want to prevent that from happening and that's why I'm an antinatalist.
Dear Bishop Barron, I find this video is a slight of hand...a distraction.You are a holy man and inspiring teacher. Teach us. We are starving for the truth. Thank you and God bless. A sinner😔.
Free will and destiny are intermingled, we like to think that things are solely done by our own undertaking, but rarely is this the case, we are heavily shaped by our surroundings!
Of, course, God Jesus - who is also God Yahweh - gave free will to humans a n d to the tectonic plates. They move about whenever they feel like it, just like the hurricanes and the tsunamis. Hall-El-u-Yahweh-Jesus-Holy Ghost-God, the FEARFUL TRINITY.
So the conclusion is as such: God gives us the final choice for the actions we take in life, but he paves the wave for us to do certain things as part of his plan. Even if he paves the path to our salvation, we can always choose to deny the path and take our own. Neat
And that choice WILL affect others and their own journeys, for good or bad. Our sins and virtues have consequences that at least some people, if not everyone, will experience in their own ways.
This doesn’t explain what happens if you were per se- born onto a remote island of cannibals. Or raised by wolves as in the few documented cases in India. This discussion was unsatisfactory.
@@dariofromthefuture3075 unsatisfactory such that it doesn't fulfill 10 cases out of 7 billion human beings yes, but I think the conclusion I think applies to all of us average folk without complaint. On further thought, it may perhaps be said that in those cases, the individual is put into an extremely limiting situation, but not without free choices still. An island of cannibals still has some rules and obligations that would still require free choice to follow depending on the situation (maybe there would be a rule to not eat children and such).
@@dariofromthefuture3075 I thought the whole point of a philosophical discussion is to gain practical knowledge about a certain aspect of reality which is not graspable by scientific or dogmatic means? Guess I'm wrong then lol.
Thanks for your profound sacrifices on our behalf bishop. I look to you for much of the intellectual genius of St Thomas when I can and on such matters as this, free will. Just wanted to say thanks... and you also help me greatly to recite the Rosary as I pray along with your recorded prayer. Really helps. God bless you.
This question of free will is very debatable. Tell me about free will when you live in a troubled country or when live in an unjust society. Good to check Jorge Luis Borges. Matrix, the film.
Truth of God matters and understanding truth is understanding God in all his wisdom as God continues to guide his people through end of times. Thank you for these lessons.
Mind, will, emotion, "soul" all impact the outcome of human "moral free agency" that makes many decisions. Environmental influences are not "all-controlling".
Regarding the Bob Dylan concert analogy: Father Barron is essentially an open theist then? That the future is not set in stone, but God can make predictions come true by interference?
Bojanglesz89, Luther ignored the fact that Augustine's bondage of the will was contextually a thesis on the bondage of the will through sin, the rejection of cooperative grace in the exercise of free will. Double predestination cannot stand up to the scrutiny of 1 Timothy 2:4, God "desires all man to be saved". He could not have predetermined hellfires for some of His children, while dispensing salvation to others. Thank you for pointing out the flaw.
“My God is an awesome God, he reigns in Heaven above and live in power and love, my God is an awesome God”. Those who seek with all their hearts will find him and will need to decide whether to follow his truth.
Great Discussion on a huge topic. I hear a lot of Harry G. Frankfurts principle of alternate possibilities in there. For a great 101 introduction on the philosophy of free will, I can highly recommend Robert Kane's "a contemporary introduction to free will" from Oxford University Press.
The freewill concept is that you are basically on your own because God will not intervene to help you because of freewill. So this makes him a viewer and not a helper. Then when you die you are condemned because He wouldn't intervene to help you asked him too. All this comes across as entrapment.
The notion of determinism is also a great argument for the politically ambitious: “You can’t decide for yourself, therefore you must rely on a large bureaucracy to tell you what do, how to think, etc.” That’s terrifying to me. Human behavior is not a vector of forces and nothing else.
That is a total non sequitur. Not having free will doesn't mean not being able to make personal decisions. Please explain your logical train of thought; I'm genuinely curious.
To use his Bob Dylan example though, what makes him like Bob Dylan versus someone who doesn't? If we can't pick our personalities, our brain structure, and the influences that have interacted with those through our lives then ultimately the decisions we make are a result of those. If not they are random. We can hold each other responsible for our actions because none of us are gods that can trace every interaction and every reason a choice was made, but an omni God could. And therein lies the difference. For us to judge each other is one thing, but for a God who knows all of that to judge us, just doesn't make any sense. To a God we would be robots, in the same way a magician knows how every piece of the trick was done. It is only those who are experiencing the trick without that knowledge who can be swept up by it and the illusion takes place.
You know, the most important thing about free will and determinism is knowledge. Does knowledge come to you before the time you are supposed to reach it? Why can't we know what happens tomorrow when we can predict weather pattern trajectories of asteroids and heavenly bodies and what not? Arrival of knowledge is more important factor to understand the fine difference between determinism and free will than the acts we argue are in our control or not. Questions like how do we acquire interest?
Lutheran here. Luthers understanding is much more elaborate than a stepping stone to Calvinism, namely the distinction between free will in the Civil sense (the choice to pick up a pen set it down), and in the moral sense (choosing to do good or evil). As the scriptures clearly say, there is no one who is righteous (Roman's 3:10). Are will in bound in the sense that we can not do anything worthy of salvation. This is why Christ's life death and resurection is so important.
The movie Forrest Gump shows the interplay of destiny and freedom in a beautiful way. The whole symbolism of the feather floating with both purpose and randomness.
Nice discussion. However, I noticed that there was a supposition in it that determinism implies absence of free will. One of the most influential philosophical traditions of approaching the free will/determinism issue is compatibilism. If compatibilists are correct, even if determinism holds, we can have free will. You can find a short and elegant exposition of the view in the article 'Is Neuroscience the Death of Free Will?' By Eddy Nahmias. It was Published in New York Times' 'The Stone' philosophy series and it can be read for free online.
so you are trying to hide an absurd gnostic dogma behind another absurd gnostic dogma. Free will is due to the Rational Soul, and you are not "determined" by anything in Creation.
@@JPX7NGD I'm not sure why you're assuming anything about what I am trying to do. I was clear in my comment. Also, there is nothing 'gnostic' in compatibilism as it is, although it might be incorporated in gnostic views, I guess.
@@storyteller0111 Because assumption is the basis of all thought, and I know the silly tricks you are tying to use to pass off your low-order eschatology as reason. you are trying to present reality as dualistic to hide your other views behind.
Thanks and God bless you Bishop Barron! I help but wonder if the interaction between Jesus and Philip in John 6:5-7 is a great illustration of free will. We see there that "He said this to test him, because he himself knew what he was going to do." Philip had liberum arbitrium to respond and the fact that there was a "correct answer" didn't take away from Philip's free judgment. In the same way, God continually tests us and we, like Philip, are free to respond. The goal for us, perhaps, is to be like Mary in Luke 10:42 and chose "the better part". God bless all of you as you strive to choose the better part!
Sub atomic particles are random . A friend of mine was studying philosophy and told me she’s a determinist. Without inquiring I reminded myself that quantum mechanics don’t work like the mechanical philosopher would believe. I don’t get how atheistic determination can hold onto a material argument on the will.
I think free will is a faculty of the mind that leads to a decision to act after an evaluation of a situation or matter that can serve the better benefit to the thinker
I disagree with the premise that choice means we have Free Will. A computer can choose between an array of options, yet has no Free Will. I think a better argument would be that Free Will both exists and doesn't exist. From a human perspective it exists, but from a Godly perspective it doesn't exist.
pride is the delusion that you will usurp God's Divine Will. of course you would find it "interesting," as that delusion is what drives your evil acts here.
@@JPX7NGD Before proceeding, could I know *'when'* should I consider myself *'obligated'* to another commenter in the Comments section of a RUclips video?
Bishop Barron could you clarify your statement from the Ben Shapiro Sunday Special where you say "Jesus is the privileged way"? That seems to contradict scripture. Specifically John 14:6. Thanks for any clarification on this point. God Bless.
I’ve heard a materialist say that to be able to freely control the physical determinism that has influence on us would be a miracle. This could be a hint to prove the existence of God. After all, it seems to me that the deterministic scientist preach determinism as it was an independent truthful concept, which would be impossible if determinism was true. Because how would we be able to know that the concept of determinism isn’t influenced by our personal nature and environment
According to quantum mechanics, particles exist as a wave of probabilities, you can never know exactly what position a particle would be in, you can predict the probabilities, but you can never know exactly where they are. For example, atoms have been drawn in the past with electrons in energy level shells orbiting the nucleus like planets around a star, but in reality, electrons exist as probabilities within their shells but there are areas or hot spots where you can most likely observe an electron at any given time or cold spots where you aren't.
Wikipedia has an existential update to add to what has become an all-too-familiar, glib debate. “For Kierkegaard, anxiety/dread/angst is unfocused fear. Kierkegaard uses the example of a man standing on the edge of a tall building or cliff. When the man looks over the edge, he experiences a focused fear of falling, but at the same time, the man feels a terrifying impulse to throw himself intentionally off the edge. That experience is anxiety or dread because of our complete freedom to choose to either throw oneself off or to stay put. The mere fact that one has the possibility and freedom to do something, even the most terrifying of possibilities, triggers immense feelings of dread. Kierkegaard called this our "dizziness of freedom." Kierkegaard focuses on the first anxiety experienced by man: Adam's choice to eat from God's forbidden tree of knowledge or not. Since the concepts of good and evil did not come into existence before Adam ate the fruit, Adam had no concept of good and evil, and did not know that eating from the tree was "evil." What he did know was that God told him not to eat from the tree. The anxiety comes from the fact that God's prohibition itself implies that Adam is free and that he could choose to obey God or not. After Adam ate from the tree, sin was born. So, according to Kierkegaard, anxiety precedes sin. Kierkegaard mentions that anxiety is the presupposition for hereditary sin (which Augustine was the first to call peccatum originale, "original sin"). However, Kierkegaard mentions that anxiety is a way for humanity to be saved as well. Anxiety informs us of our choices, our self-awareness and personal responsibility, and brings us from a state of un-self-conscious immediacy to self-conscious reflection. (Jean-Paul Sartre calls these terms pre-reflective consciousness and reflective consciousness.)[6] An individual becomes truly aware of their potential through the experience of anxiety. So, anxiety may be a possibility for sin, but anxiety can also be a recognition or realization of one's true identity and freedoms. Alternatively, sin exists in the very resolution of anxiety through right and wrong; why to embrace anxiety is to not pass judgement.”
Great going Robert. Church discussing philosophy is exactly why evolution has loved Christanity. This is very interesting, Bishops talking philosophy. So proud of you! #BishopDaniel
I thought the comment about imposing language on children could be a very good argument against people who try and make an argument that you shouldn't impose gender on children.
The Bishop speaks wisdom and is such a blessing - but I really have a problem with this notion of dumb animals I've heard many Catholic theologians teaching! It seems antiquated. Don't we all recognise that dogs and even more intelligent creatures like apes or dolphins or octopuses have emotions, social understanding and make decisions? Elephants can problem-solve and mourn the death of family members! Would love to hear some discussion around this.
Yes, so true but this actually is evident in all sentient life. Humans often deny that fact so as to commit atrocities against them and justify the brutality that is required to render them “meat” and eat them.
Free will is the reason that there are souls in Hell, I was taught. God cannot force anyone to love Him, and there are obstinate souls who refuse his Graces, his Mercy. So they chose hell out of their free will.
Beautifully explained bishop! I am unconvinced that neuroscience has disproven free will; it seems that the jury is out on that one. I prefer a soft libertarian approach and molinism in my beliefs, but if neuroscience somehow showed us to be “deterministic” I am comforted with this alternative explanation of freedom.
As someone who has studied psychology I can tell you that all action is belief driven. What compels us to act is our emotions, these emotions are once again determined by our beliefs as to what we believe unconsciously will lead to pleasure or to avoid pain. What we define as pain or pleasure comes down to our values and as Catholics our values are based on the teachings of Jesus. What we all do have is the ability to discern information and decide what direction to take those actions and at any moment if we decide with conviction we can override actions that in the moment seem overwhelmingly compelling. This is also where influence can be both a positive and negative thing, a person who under the wrong influence can be emotionally guided to both the narrow or wide path. I think people are so conditioned to function on auto pilot that they kind of think that something is controlling them and choice is useless and put it down as just how they are.
Being born into this world is kind of like being born on a moving train. We have free will but most things are beyond our control. We cannot determine the will of others, we cannot determine whether something good or bad will happen today or tomorrow, so I think most people are prone to make decisions based on the emotion of fear. I think this can be mistaken for being determined. Free will is what can allow us to overcome fear and obstacles and be problem solvers and to have faith (trust) in God. I think the most pressing emotion is the fear of not being in control, or fear of the unknown. Trusting in God overcomes these fears if we allow it.
Stephen Merritt I respect your reply and agree with some of what you are saying but maybe not to the same degree. It's true we can't control others actions and we can't control factors outside of ourselves in terms of what each day will bring and for me this is where destiny or the Lords will comes into play to a certain extent. There is often lessons in these factors for us to learn or grow from and ultimately take on a positive attitude about. There is however also the possibility to influence people (for the power of good) by offering help or support, sometimes in small or somewhat insignificant yet powerful ways, just like Fr Barron shares his wisdom to reach us in some way which at some level will quite possibly influence out decisions and behaviours. You are right, a lot of people are driven by fear which is what I alluded to as pain and that need to avoid it is linked to a primal need for survival, however unlike other species we have the ability to make and attach meaning to things (one very strong reason to contemplate the belief in a God). On a more everyday level what this means is outside our need to keep ourselves alive there are people that link pain to boredom and are constantly looking for ways to entertain or thrill themselves, others need the routine because it makes them feel grounded and certain. Mother Teresa linked pain to seeing the poor suffer and serving them and giving them dignity to a pleasure of sorts, therefore living her highest values in Christ. You are right, faith banishes fear and I also think it releases untapped potential the Lord put into us, for me I sometimes think it's the very meaning of life. Handing it all over to God is a very healthy thing to do and a way to emotional freedom if done in the spirit of sincere faith. There are some good books out there by a Carmelite monk who's name is Fr Luiz Jorge Gonzalez on psychology, he's even written a book on modelling Jesus, they aren't so much theological but focus more on how to be more like Jesus in your humanity. I don't know your denomination but although I'm Catholic I like the work of our Protestant brother Norman Vincent Peale's too. He fathered the positive thinking movement and shows many practical ways to become more aware of the thoughts you think, overall showing that with effort you can become more conscious of how they effect your emotions and behaviours and it's relationship to the control you have over your free will. He often uses scripture passages as affirmations that make very powerful global beliefs to live by, having said this his approach is simply a practical Christianity, he purposefully keeps his theology out of it, my theology is firmly in my Catholic faith. Anyway, I've rambled on a bit too long but I pray the Lord blesses you and your loved ones.
An implication of this discussion is prayer. Praying cannot change God's ultimate plan, I guess. However, every destination has multiple ways of getting there, not just one way. It seems that in prayer, we are simply asking for our preferred way. Whether or not we are granted that way is up to God, as well as our own free will, I guess... Perhaps Origen was right about universalism? Perhaps salvation is not a question of if but a question of when.
awareness is usually a gradual growth. Even the awareness of one's choices. Also, every miracle performed means by definition an action outside of nature. Every miracle is proof that man can act outside nature and nurture, We are therefore not necessarily bound by either.
4:00 I've always thought that the neurological experiment against free will that Brandon is discussing was bogus. It's good to see that its conclusion has been debunked.
In going thru my simple faith and reason, I tend to rationalize that God endowed Adam and Eve with free will for a reason. God loves His human creation, Adam and Eve, so overflowing that He wanted them to love Him back on their own accord freely. As the story went on, disobedience happened, and we saw the adverse repercussions thru the biblical history.
My question on free will is, if we truly have it, why don't we all have a precognition of accepting to be created? If free will is what we have and in order for it to be consistent, when was I freely given the choice to be created? It seems to me that without being given the choice to be created, then I simple don't have free will and was forced into exsitance... That is not a free choice, that is being forced in to something I have not chosen. There is nothing free about my exsitance!
Well your whole point is absolutely illogical because for you to be a given choice to be created or not, you would have to be created in the first place without a choice to be given a choice between the former or the latter!
Hi Bishop Barron, Thank you very much for for your RUclips videos and homily podcasts. I've been listening a lot, and found much illumination. Your discussion of free will sparked a concern I have that I know you have spoken much about. Specifically, it relates to our culture's reverence for freedom above all else, including submission to God and the moral law. I know, understand, and agree with your view on the subject. But as a parent I am also concerned with how popular culture impacts my small children on this issue. For example, I was watching the Disney movie Frozen with my two very young kids, and was surprised that the lyrics to the most popular song from that film include the words: "No right, no wrong. No rules for me. I'm free!" What should I do vis-a-vis my kids when very popular materials espouse such viewpoints? I worry that they are so young that they will not be able to understand what I can say in rebuttal, but the stories may have a subconscious influence on them. I am also concerned with banning them from such materials, as it feels heavy handed and might impair them socially.
Wonderful discussion. I absolutely love your videos. I cherish my Faith and your videos bring an intellectual thought as to why I believe. I would believe anyway because of personal experience., but your videos do bring an additional dimension
If everyone agreed on either belief, then it would seem that there is no free will. The fact that some agree and some disagree, demonstrates that there is free will.
Nope, we have different beliefs because we use different arguments to come up with our opinions. If you want to see how free will is debunked see Sam Harris, Cosmic Skeptic and Rationality Rules about it
We are given freedom within the predetermined parameters of our life. I read in the Catholic catechism that God is the primary cause and that man is the secondary cause. The Orthodox church says that we participate with God in a synergistic way. In Phillipians 2:12,13 St. Paul encourages them to work out their salvation and he says that it is God working in them. Simultaneously it is God and us working. In a philosophical way we can say the two sides of reality are the absolute and the relative. God is the absolute and we are the relative. In an absolute sense God is sovereign and on the relative side we have our choices we make and are accountable. It is two sides of the same coin. We can realize this if we surrender our will and live a life of contemplation and obedience to God's Word.
The quantum indeterminacy answer to the free will question is inadequate for 2 reasons: 1> it is but one interpretation of seeming quantum paradoxes, it is not the definitive interpretation, but 2> and more importantly, all such recourse to science rests on materialism. And the mind, as our philosophy teaches, the intellect, is immaterial and as with the pure intellects of the angels rests on entirely different modes, principles and objects of causality, and governance then those of mere matter. The human intellect, though closely related in some way to the workings of matter, fundamentally, substantially, is generated by the same immaterial, free, not materially determined, spiritual causality that governs the angelic mind. When we look into the brain we see nerves, ganglion, cells, traces of electricity etc; but try as we might, or better, imagine as we might, we will never see an idea, nor a syllogism, nor a poem, nor a mathematical formula. Scientists may think they are seeing thought, but they are not, they are seeing stuff, matter in motion. Not ideas, not concepts, not their elaborations in thought, - just stuff apprehended in it's workings by non stuff bearing, materially undetermined thought - yes thought modified by matter, but not determined by it. Therefore, invoking Heisenberg just recapitulates and reinforces mistaken materialist assumptions. and is no answer to the question of free will.
hitchens already knows the error of his ways. also, evil and bad acts destroy free will, which is why reprobates are all so helpless in this area. God has given them over to sin.
@@JPX7NGD Some say there are those among the religious who cannot recognize wit or humor. I'm glad you've shown us this isn't so. Thankfully, you were able to stumble over a joke and use it to preach. Good on you. That's exactly the sort of example which will surely draw people to God through the love of Jesus Christ. Say what you will of Hitchens' rejection of the Church, but if a reprobate is an unprincipled person, it is hardly a fitting accusation. He was a man with quick & cutting wit and a profound sense of morality. I'll remember to light a candle & pray for his soul. You'll forgive me I hope if I don't share your rather Calvinist view of a God who simply gives people over to sin & corruption. If God is eternal & unending love, I doubt He would abandon any of His children. I'll leave the judgment of others to you and to God, since you apparently speak for Him.
@@Mr._Anderpson There is only Salvation via being a part of the Church and all sin must be paid for by Penance. you support a monster then sneer "it was a joke" all while vomiting the heresy of universalism and accusing me of being a heretic out of despair (delusion you will absolve yourself by projection). a reprobate is one given over to sin because they have chosen sin over God. there was not an evil that drunkard hitchens did not so desperately promote against the Church. just look at his possessed-seeming actions at the mere thought of St Mother Theresa of Calcutta.
that's a shockingly bad analogy by Hitchens. He should know that free will existing or not isn't in the domain of choice, but rather the domain of absolute truths--for example, the Christian God exists or he does not, we don't "choose" whether or not God exists. Free will either exists or it doesn't--it's not even a matter of whether or not it's a choice. I get the joke he was trying to make but the analogy itself is just pretty bad.
@@joeybodnar That's what happens when someone looks at a glib joke and tries to pontificate about its flaws. Always a good look. Good luck digesting other bits of humor.
Questions for Christians: What actually is free will? How does free will work? If free will exists outside of God's control, doesn't that mean He's not all powerful? Does free will take into account all the natural phenomena that seem to influence human decision (e.g. human reason, knowledge, emotion, hormones, memory, external stimuli from the environment, etc) or is it completely independent from these? If it's not independent, where is the line between free will and determinism? How much influence do external factors have vs free will? How can you possibly know how much of your decision is due to natural phenomena and how much is 'free' without knowing all the natural factors influencing your decision? If there is something outside of the natural world that tips a decision one way or another, how does it work, and if it's detached from human reason, personality and emotion, how can it even be part of a personal decision? In pondering these questions, I go back to question one: What actually *is* free will?
Many of your questions were actually answered in the video. I will attack determinism in a very different way. I will start from experience, as a phenomenologist. You experience free will. You certainly feel every morning YOU decide what you eat for breakfast. You don’t think, “I wonder what the collection of atoms has for me today?” Which presented a problem for determinism for a long time. But they wiggled out by saying I have an illusion of free will. You say illusions are real, but not a faculty of matter. You play on a positivism and decedent romanticism. I’m sorry to say illusions aren’t here. There is no illusions of free will. This is a dualism in modernity. Which is why Fitzgerald in “The Great Gatsby” says-and the book is a harsh critique of modernity-I feel I am both within and without. Determinism implies you have no ontological home. You are alienated from yourself. That’s the transformation from Ockham and Duns Scotus to Luther to Descartes to Hume to Kant and finally you get a simultaneous and contradictory world view that is romantic and positivist. Which is why Jung’s first great book is symbols of transformation and his fear that we have lost our contact epistemology and thus symbols of transformation. Now we will be meaningless actors. Is that not determinism? We are all meaningless actors? Watching ourselves in a movie? Are we not alienated from ourselves in determinism?
@@mariog1490 Wow, in that pretentious rambling epic, you managed to answer not one of the questions I posed. Try again - this time without the pseudo-intellectual word salad please.
@@ACharmedEarthling I’m sorry, I just felt that your questions were answered in the video. Is there something I should explain in my response? What is pretentious about it? I thought I was perfectly clear.
How is one able to live in a world, enveloped by it, supposedly created for you. And not be effected by it? Thats what it would take for us to be «free». Even ouer judgments are determined by previous experiences. Compatabilism doesn’t use the Word «free», Its just will.
Just a reminder, randomness won’t give you free will, niether will determinism, and niether any combination of the two. And i if you think otherwise, show how
Agreed. It's more like being in a prison. Your will is very much confined to the prison. Sometimes with higher intelligence and information it's like being in the yard of the prison. Sometimes it's like being in a cramped cell. The quantum consciousness has for sure brought back the debate of how many degrees of freedom there is to one's will.
It would a hugely interesting debate with mentalist Derren Brown that more than scientific experiment seems to underline how much the external influence can "undermine" subconsciously our free will.
@@astrol4b I cannot simplify things further. Freedom is responsibility. Will is the Capability to do Good. any evil act (those that lack Good and seek to destroy Good) negate the will and choice. you can also look up Venerable Fulton Sheen's tv show episode called "Freedom," it is on youtube.
It does, unless you believe in universalism, universalism that means we all go to heaven. If that is so, than we don’t have free will. Nothing we do matters.
Thank you, Bishop Barron. You do a lot of good work for the Church. Could you please speak on the troubling Amazon Synod and its pagan “working document”? We need more shepherds to speak out. God Bless you!
Why does God not listen to me?My enemies have progressed in life,jobs,families,careers etc.I have been left on the scrapheap.No job,no love interest,poor health,left disfigured by a thug,memory gone.Where does God come in to this?God has passed me and my family by.
@@JPX7NGD Your statement "Free will is the requirement to do good" I thought that if someone had free will they could also do what is said to be bad or evil. I think it is you who don't know what you are talking about.
@@zephyr056 Let me repeat myself from talking to another one here: Freedom is responsibility. Will is the capability to do Good. Good is anything as God created it to be. The will also does not exist without understanding Good as Good. Free will is therefore the responsibility to do Good. One can ONLY choose Good. doing evil and bad things are actually a request for God to remove your will and so turn you over to death and sin. this is why evil people cannot recognize evil and helplessly do terrible things even though they regret it.
On a different, yet important aspect, I would very much encourage Bishop Baron to hold a water bottle, on his next show, and not a PLASTIC one!!! No "libre arbitre" , Bishop, as our planet is suffering...This topic is one of my favored one, Free Will. Thank you for the references and the insights!
I was really hoping for a specific reference from the Bible mentioned; which is a question I've been awaiting an answer for, for years. It will not affect my faith, but I've refrained from asking anyone incase it affects theres. However, "ask, seek, knock".... In Revelation; it talks of 144,000 men being spared and protected (a long time ago I read this, so forgive my poor recollection..) but as I understand it, it spoke of 144,000 men of Israel being protected under exile and were the pure/holy. If the Bible can stipulate a pre decided quantity of people of whom will remain righteous; then it is pre decided that the others will fall by the wayside, and hence their free will is superfluous. I would welcome any (informed) feedback on this please.
Your Excellency, it sounds like the position you articulate is Molinist, not Thomist. My understanding of the Thomist position is that God moves the will to choose as first and direct cause, but that this is not an affront to its freedom. For Thomas, "the will" is synonymous with "free will." In other words, he seems to hold that it is not possible that the will not be free, and this due to its very nature as a choosing things. It is not possible, he thinks, that the will be coerced (even though the person can be coerced to do something AGAINST his will). It's at least internally consistent, because to be coerced is to do something against one's will. Whatever causes the will to choose, therefore, is not causing the will to do something against itself, since it is causing it TO choose. Molina, for his part, seems to think this doesn't sufficiently account for human freedom, which is why he holds to what I'll call a circumstantialist position, where, as you said, God can providentially arrange things in such a way to bring about his plan for the cosmos without being the efficient cause of the will. I think this has its own problems too, but that seems to be your position and Molina's, not Thomas's. I'm not yet convinced of the Thomist position either, but I am pretty convinced that Thomas's understanding of predestination and the will is quite different than Molina's, hence the big debates between the Dominicans and Jesuits, which I'm sure you're aware of. If you could comment on whether the position you defend in this video is more Molinist than Thomist, I would be greatly edified. May God continue to bless your work. Be assured of my continued prayers for your ministry, and please pray for me as well!
Freedom is responsibility. Will is the capability to do Good. Good is anything as God created it to be. The will also does not exist without understanding Good as Good.
I have read that Libet's experiments have been criticized. My thought is that perhaps his experiment was designed wrong. If a scientist were to design an experiment wrong, that could mess up their results. One thing that scares me is that if it is commonly accepted that free will is an illusion, authorities could use that knowledge to attack civil liberties.
While I agree that we have free will, I would say it is greatly compromised by sin. I certainly wouldn't make man's ability to choose correctly the driving force of the gospel (not saying that you guys are doing this). I always take comfort in knowing that God chose us & that salvation doesn't rely upon my flawed free will. Sure, we can resist...but hopefully not forever.
Hi Bishop Barron...You probably don't remember me, but a year or two ago, I followed & participated fairly intensively in the discussions surrounding your videos. In particular, your expositions of St Thomas Aquinas' theology opened my eyes to the depth & beauty of Catholic Doctrine (which led to a sort of "crisis of faith", as I had been pretty Calvinistic, and had been taught the ridiculous notion that the Catholic Church "preached another Gospel"). Since then, I'd been pretty seriously ill, and was actually baptized by a local priest in the hospital (was undiagnosed for quite a while, but thankfully, it turned out to be something much less serious than the initially suspected ALS or MSA [likely, it was "Gilian Barre Syndrome], and I'm nearly completely recovered). Had my first confession yesterday. God bless you, Your Excellency.
Wayne and Donita How wonderful!
Welcome! Welcome home! Praise the Lord for your testimony 😊😊😊😊😊
@@BishopBarron Hi Bishop! Can you please review the movie Cloud Atlas? It really tackles on the intermingling of free will and destiny, the synchronicity in every action that we commit.
@@brightskysyl3913 that movie is thoroughly gnostic when it isn't being outright satanic.
@@JPX7NGD how so? Can you elaborate more on that?
Thank you Bishop Barron! You’re a big part of why I returned to the Catholic Church. I’m in RCIA and I’m loving it! God bless you.
God bless you Bishop
Thanks to you I've returned to the Catholic church, after years of being an atheist, Jordan Peterson was the man that made the holes on my "bufferself" then I began to learn more about philosophy an the arguments of God's existence thanks to William Lane Craig and others, it was like more than a year ago then I studied about the history of the church and began reading the Bible, and I came to the conclusion that the Catholic church is the REAL church of Christ. Thanks to you and this podcast that I decided to go back to the church two months ago and I will begin confirmation the next Saturday 🔝
Thanks for all that you do in your work of evangelization, greetings from Costa Rica👋
Of, course, God Jesus - who is also God Yahweh - gave free will to humans a n d to the tectonic plates. They move about whenever they feel like it, just like the hurricanes and the tsunamis. Hall-El-u-Yahweh-Jesus-Holy Ghost-God, the FEARFUL TRINITY.
@Jarrid Gable God bless you brother🔝
@Jarrid Gable I recommend you to look for Scott Hahn, Steven Ray, Matthew Leonard (He has a really good podcast called The Art of Catholic), Jimmy Akin, and Catholic Answers, they have a lot of books about the church and apologetics
Keep it up brother, and God bless
Beautyful testimony God bless
@@annemburada6265 hurricanes abd earthquakes are not free but influenced by causes as we are.
Thank you. God bless
From West African, Ghana
"The good lures our freedom" beautiful
I need help understanding this, pls explain
I take it, the "Catholic" church doesn't have a specific answer to the Freewill vs Determinism question. Meaning, one can be a Catholic and believe either one. Same as the Protestants, is that about right?
Was interested in getting Bishop Barron's take on Erasmus and where he fits into the Catholic picture as well as his dialogues with Luther. This does shed some light on that
I work in the space field and have generally considered myself a man of science since I was a boy.
Yet I didn't see a conflict between that and Faith.
I'd like to see more videos reconciling the two.
Rick Extrordinaire Dr. James Tour has many videos on RUclips. He’s an extraordinary scientist and a man of deep faith and very interesting.
The Teaching Company produces adult continuing education videos. You may find their course, "Science and Religion" presented by Lawrence Principi quite interesting. Dr,. Principi may have some YT offerings as well.
*"BY ALL MEANS they try to hold me secure who love me in this world. But it is otherwise with thy love which is greater than theirs; thou keepest me free.*
*Lest I forget them they never venture to leave me alone. But day passes after day and thou are not seen.*
*If I call not thee in my prayers, if I keep not thee in my heart, thy love for me still waits for my love."*
- Rabindranath Tagore (GITANJALI - 32)
20th century Indian Poet, Tagore won the Nobel Peace Prize in Literature, for GITANJALI, a collection of poems.
Hi father...im a college student taking up Information Design/visual arts i also like bob dylan and my favorite song is Knocking on Heavens door, and Mr Tambourine man. Try listening to King Krule Easy Easy i hope you love it as well. Anyways I have always been going back to this show/podcast for insights. I have shared the movie playlist to my friends who study film in college, and the insights you have on film are of great help. Also i share this with my dad and friends every time i have the opportunity. Im part of Christ's Youth in Action and the Philippines love you because you share the truth and continue to struggle to remain in it. We love you Word on Fire, and all the servants of the word do as well. May God bless you all in everything that you do. We pray Mama Mary keeps us all constantly true.
Did you just call another man Father ? What wrong with you ? You need Therapy !
Hi Bishop Barron,
I came to faith in Christ last year and for the past while have been seriously looking into the Catholic faith. As a result of this, I have found myself down various Catholic internet wormholes, including TnT's channel. While I am naturally much more drawn to your presentation of the faith, their arguments seem quite convincing. I do not know whether it is my own selfishness, or my perceptive intuition, that "wants" them to be wrong. But I lack the arguments to articulate why they are/or not accurately presenting the faith and the modernism which has affected it.
This is why it would be enormously helpful for me and other new Catholics if you could talk with them. It is very overwhelming to try to parse through disagreements within the Church when I am only very new to it. Even though you may think they are unworthy of debate, newbies like me do not yet understand why this is the case.
God bless you
Thank you
Bishop, when are you going to talk with Sam Harris? I am really looking forward to that debate.
I think he hits the nail on the head. Free will is not about the choices themselves, but the capacity to have chosen at all.
why does everyone use that pic? what does it mean???
Thanks for being a solid, pastoral, intelligent voice during these times when some are hawking bizarre conspiracy theories for profit and promoting division at a time when we need prayer and unity.
solid? not a chance in the h*ll that Bishop Barron may or may not believe in. Have you read Bella Dodd's "School of Darkness?" she personally did what you seem to be alluding to as "conspiracy."
@@JPX7NGD Instead of regurgitating what others claim Bishop Barron believes about hell - read it for yourself: www.wordonfire.org/hope/ You bring up a good point about Bella Dodd, although never proven, at least some of her claims are likely true (that the Soviets planted some men in the Catholic Church). I heard a historian say 99% of conspiracy theories are false. Dodd may be the 1% that is true. Some samples of the others that are not true or at least very questionable: The Mafia killed Kennedy. The Freemasons work for the Vatican to infiltrate Protestant churches (and vice versa). The American government took down the World Trade Center. Area 51 houses dead aliens. A secret Jewish council runs the world's finances. The Catholic Communion wafer is a secret symbol for the Sun God. The Illuminati control just about everything. Pope Francis is a Masonic Manchurian candidate. The Catholic Church is trying to take over America via immigration and a high birth rate. Jesuits have a secret plan to murder Freemasons and Protestants in Britain. I could go on all day. Very Very few conspiracy theories have ever turned out to be true - many are clever hoaxes or just a natural defense mechanism to blame what we can't explain or don't want to face, on a boogeyman (or scapegoat). Some promote them to make $$$
Prayer has been shown to only help the pray-er and not the prayed.
@@frankc392 ah, so you cannot see the difference between novelty and Substance. you also seem to love the freemasons.
@@sasquatchmongoose5485 you do not know what Prayer is, do you?
People do not have free will. People are forced to think and do the types of things that their type of genetics and their types of life experiences forces them to think and do throughout their life. Who and how someone happens to be is an extremely unfair unjust lottery that is dependent on what type of genetics that they happen to have and depending on what types of life experiences that they happen to have throughout their life. And no matter if we were created by nature or by aliens or by a god or gods, people are victims of existing and being the flawed and fallible way that it or they created us. And people are victims of existing and suffering against their will and I want to prevent that from happening and that's why I'm an antinatalist.
Dear Bishop Barron,
I find this video is a slight of hand...a distraction.You are a holy man and inspiring teacher. Teach us. We are starving for the truth. Thank you and God bless. A sinner😔.
Free will and destiny are intermingled, we like to think that things are solely done by our own undertaking, but rarely is this the case, we are heavily shaped by our surroundings!
Tammie Currie And our genes.
Of, course, God Jesus - who is also God Yahweh - gave free will to humans a n d to the tectonic plates. They move about whenever they feel like it, just like the hurricanes and the tsunamis. Hall-El-u-Yahweh-Jesus-Holy Ghost-God, the FEARFUL TRINITY.
God Bless Word on Fire and Bishop Robert Barron wonderful in facts, thinking, and defending true Christianity in the Roman Catholic tradition!
@7:01 ... and thank you, beloved bishop, for choosing to come and run the show with Brandon. This show is food for my soul.
The answer, my friend, is blowing in the wind...
So the conclusion is as such: God gives us the final choice for the actions we take in life, but he paves the wave for us to do certain things as part of his plan. Even if he paves the path to our salvation, we can always choose to deny the path and take our own.
Neat
And that choice WILL affect others and their own journeys, for good or bad. Our sins and virtues have consequences that at least some people, if not everyone, will experience in their own ways.
This doesn’t explain what happens if you were per se- born onto a remote island of cannibals. Or raised by wolves as in the few documented cases in India. This discussion was unsatisfactory.
@@dariofromthefuture3075 unsatisfactory such that it doesn't fulfill 10 cases out of 7 billion human beings yes, but I think the conclusion I think applies to all of us average folk without complaint.
On further thought, it may perhaps be said that in those cases, the individual is put into an extremely limiting situation, but not without free choices still. An island of cannibals still has some rules and obligations that would still require free choice to follow depending on the situation (maybe there would be a rule to not eat children and such).
@@ToxicPea In philosophical discussions all edge cases must be accounted for. Thats the whole point of a philosophical discussion.
@@dariofromthefuture3075 I thought the whole point of a philosophical discussion is to gain practical knowledge about a certain aspect of reality which is not graspable by scientific or dogmatic means? Guess I'm wrong then lol.
Thanks for your profound sacrifices on our behalf bishop. I look to you for much of the intellectual genius of St Thomas when I can and on such matters as this, free will. Just wanted to say thanks... and you also help me greatly to recite the Rosary as I pray along with your recorded prayer. Really helps. God bless you.
This question of free will is very debatable. Tell me about free will when you live in a troubled country or when live in an unjust society. Good to check Jorge Luis Borges. Matrix, the film.
Love this topic and explanation! Thank you 👏👏👏
Truth of God matters and understanding truth is understanding God in all his wisdom as God continues to guide his people through end of times. Thank you for these lessons.
Hi to Bishop Barron from Croatia!
Mind, will, emotion, "soul" all impact the outcome of human "moral free agency" that makes many decisions. Environmental influences are not "all-controlling".
The soul is responsible for all the others, demon.
Thank God for you guys !❤️🙏
Regarding the Bob Dylan concert analogy: Father Barron is essentially an open theist then? That the future is not set in stone, but God can make predictions come true by interference?
I am a protestant, but I agree with Erasmus on free will... predestination is based on a flaw understanding of the sovereignty of God.
Protestants are cringe
Bojanglesz89, Luther ignored the fact that Augustine's bondage of the will was contextually a thesis on the bondage of the will through sin, the rejection of cooperative grace in the exercise of free will.
Double predestination cannot stand up to the scrutiny of 1 Timothy 2:4, God "desires all man to be saved". He could not have predetermined hellfires for some of His children, while dispensing salvation to others. Thank you for pointing out the flaw.
Absolutly free is Jesús Christ, He gave himself for Love first ! God bless all! God loves us! Ever 😇😇😇
“My God is an awesome God, he reigns in Heaven above and live in power and love, my God is an awesome God”. Those who seek with all their hearts will find him and will need to decide whether to follow his truth.
Great Discussion on a huge topic. I hear a lot of Harry G. Frankfurts principle of alternate possibilities in there. For a great 101 introduction on the philosophy of free will, I can highly recommend Robert Kane's "a contemporary introduction to free will" from Oxford University Press.
The freewill concept is that you are basically on your own because God will not intervene to help you because of freewill. So this makes him a viewer and not a helper. Then when you die you are condemned because He wouldn't intervene to help you asked him too. All this comes across as entrapment.
Freedom and destiny...excellent. Thank you both.
The notion of determinism is also a great argument for the politically ambitious: “You can’t decide for yourself, therefore you must rely on a large bureaucracy to tell you what do, how to think, etc.” That’s terrifying to me. Human behavior is not a vector of forces and nothing else.
Exactly.
That is a total non sequitur. Not having free will doesn't mean not being able to make personal decisions. Please explain your logical train of thought; I'm genuinely curious.
@@ACharmedEarthling there are no personal decisions made other than that which you were determined to...
To use his Bob Dylan example though, what makes him like Bob Dylan versus someone who doesn't?
If we can't pick our personalities, our brain structure, and the influences that have interacted with those through our lives then ultimately the decisions we make are a result of those. If not they are random.
We can hold each other responsible for our actions because none of us are gods that can trace every interaction and every reason a choice was made, but an omni God could. And therein lies the difference. For us to judge each other is one thing, but for a God who knows all of that to judge us, just doesn't make any sense. To a God we would be robots, in the same way a magician knows how every piece of the trick was done. It is only those who are experiencing the trick without that knowledge who can be swept up by it and the illusion takes place.
I once heard that we have free will but it’s more like that of a train on tracks than a car with entirely free roam .
You know, the most important thing about free will and determinism is knowledge. Does knowledge come to you before the time you are supposed to reach it? Why can't we know what happens tomorrow when we can predict weather pattern trajectories of asteroids and heavenly bodies and what not? Arrival of knowledge is more important factor to understand the fine difference between determinism and free will than the acts we argue are in our control or not. Questions like how do we acquire interest?
Hi, may I ask Bishop Barron." Why Moses was given only the glimpse of the promise land from Mt.Ebo but not allowed to enter the promise land?
"I don't know anything about the physiology." That is apparent.
Lutheran here. Luthers understanding is much more elaborate than a stepping stone to Calvinism, namely the distinction between free will in the Civil sense (the choice to pick up a pen set it down), and in the moral sense (choosing to do good or evil). As the scriptures clearly say, there is no one who is righteous (Roman's 3:10). Are will in bound in the sense that we can not do anything worthy of salvation. This is why Christ's life death and resurection is so important.
The movie Forrest Gump shows the interplay of destiny and freedom in a beautiful way. The whole symbolism of the feather floating with both purpose and randomness.
Nice discussion. However, I noticed that there was a supposition in it that determinism implies absence of free will. One of the most influential philosophical traditions of approaching the free will/determinism issue is compatibilism. If compatibilists are correct, even if determinism holds, we can have free will. You can find a short and elegant exposition of the view in the article 'Is Neuroscience the Death of Free Will?' By Eddy Nahmias. It was Published in New York Times' 'The Stone' philosophy series and it can be read for free online.
so you are trying to hide an absurd gnostic dogma behind another absurd gnostic dogma. Free will is due to the Rational Soul, and you are not "determined" by anything in Creation.
@@JPX7NGD I'm not sure why you're assuming anything about what I am trying to do. I was clear in my comment. Also, there is nothing 'gnostic' in compatibilism as it is, although it might be incorporated in gnostic views, I guess.
@@storyteller0111 Because assumption is the basis of all thought, and I know the silly tricks you are tying to use to pass off your low-order eschatology as reason. you are trying to present reality as dualistic to hide your other views behind.
Thanks and God bless you Bishop Barron! I help but wonder if the interaction between Jesus and Philip in John 6:5-7 is a great illustration of free will. We see there that "He said this to test him, because he himself knew what he was going to do." Philip had liberum arbitrium to respond and the fact that there was a "correct answer" didn't take away from Philip's free judgment. In the same way, God continually tests us and we, like Philip, are free to respond. The goal for us, perhaps, is to be like Mary in Luke 10:42 and chose "the better part". God bless all of you as you strive to choose the better part!
Sub atomic particles are random . A friend of mine was studying philosophy and told me she’s a determinist. Without inquiring I reminded myself that quantum mechanics don’t work like the mechanical philosopher would believe. I don’t get how atheistic determination can hold onto a material argument on the will.
I think free will is a faculty of the mind that leads to a decision to act after an evaluation of a situation or matter that can serve the better benefit to the thinker
I disagree with the premise that choice means we have Free Will. A computer can choose between an array of options, yet has no Free Will. I think a better argument would be that Free Will both exists and doesn't exist. From a human perspective it exists, but from a Godly perspective it doesn't exist.
Thanks Brandon and Bishop Barron.
Listener's question on PRIDE, at the end of the Video is *hugely interesting.* Thank you Bishop Barron for your answer based on equivocation.
pride is the delusion that you will usurp God's Divine Will. of course you would find it "interesting," as that delusion is what drives your evil acts here.
@@JPX7NGD
As for me, it isn't *'pride',* but *'magnanimity'* that caught my attention.
@@marypinakat8594 in what sense? that you think you will be generous once you have tried to steal Divine Will?
@@JPX7NGD
Before proceeding, could I know *'when'* should I consider myself *'obligated'* to another commenter in the Comments section of a RUclips video?
Bishop Barron could you clarify your statement from the Ben Shapiro Sunday Special where you say "Jesus is the privileged way"?
That seems to contradict scripture. Specifically John 14:6.
Thanks for any clarification on this point. God Bless.
It appears that they changed the rules.
Great as always. Thanks so much for always grounding us where we belong--with God
Very interesting conversation.
I’ve heard a materialist say that to be able to freely control the physical determinism that has influence on us would be a miracle. This could be a hint to prove the existence of God. After all, it seems to me that the deterministic scientist preach determinism as it was an independent truthful concept, which would be impossible if determinism was true. Because how would we be able to know that the concept of determinism isn’t influenced by our personal nature and environment
A theologian, a philosopher, and a physicist walk into a bar. Then they have a really good conversation. The end.
clearly not, they would just devolve to gnosticism.
According to quantum mechanics, particles exist as a wave of probabilities, you can never know exactly what position a particle would be in, you can predict the probabilities, but you can never know exactly where they are. For example, atoms have been drawn in the past with electrons in energy level shells orbiting the nucleus like planets around a star, but in reality, electrons exist as probabilities within their shells but there are areas or hot spots where you can most likely observe an electron at any given time or cold spots where you aren't.
Wikipedia has an existential update to add to what has become an all-too-familiar, glib debate.
“For Kierkegaard, anxiety/dread/angst is unfocused fear. Kierkegaard uses the example of a man standing on the edge of a tall building or cliff. When the man looks over the edge, he experiences a focused fear of falling, but at the same time, the man feels a terrifying impulse to throw himself intentionally off the edge.
That experience is anxiety or dread because of our complete freedom to choose to either throw oneself off or to stay put. The mere fact that one has the possibility and freedom to do something, even the most terrifying of possibilities, triggers immense feelings of dread. Kierkegaard called this our "dizziness of freedom."
Kierkegaard focuses on the first anxiety experienced by man: Adam's choice to eat from God's forbidden tree of knowledge or not. Since the concepts of good and evil did not come into existence before Adam ate the fruit, Adam had no concept of good and evil, and did not know that eating from the tree was "evil." What he did know was that God told him not to eat from the tree. The anxiety comes from the fact that God's prohibition itself implies that Adam is free and that he could choose to obey God or not. After Adam ate from the tree, sin was born. So, according to Kierkegaard, anxiety precedes sin. Kierkegaard mentions that anxiety is the presupposition for hereditary sin (which Augustine was the first to call peccatum originale, "original sin").
However, Kierkegaard mentions that anxiety is a way for humanity to be saved as well. Anxiety informs us of our choices, our self-awareness and personal responsibility, and brings us from a state of un-self-conscious immediacy to self-conscious reflection. (Jean-Paul Sartre calls these terms pre-reflective consciousness and reflective consciousness.)[6] An individual becomes truly aware of their potential through the experience of anxiety. So, anxiety may be a possibility for sin, but anxiety can also be a recognition or realization of one's true identity and freedoms. Alternatively, sin exists in the very resolution of anxiety through right and wrong; why to embrace anxiety is to not pass judgement.”
Mass communication is a gift to save souls
Great going Robert. Church discussing philosophy is exactly why evolution has loved Christanity. This is very interesting, Bishops talking philosophy. So proud of you! #BishopDaniel
I thought the comment about imposing language on children could be a very good argument against people who try and make an argument that you shouldn't impose gender on children.
The Bishop speaks wisdom and is such a blessing - but I really have a problem with this notion of dumb animals I've heard many Catholic theologians teaching! It seems antiquated. Don't we all recognise that dogs and even more intelligent creatures like apes or dolphins or octopuses have emotions, social understanding and make decisions? Elephants can problem-solve and mourn the death of family members! Would love to hear some discussion around this.
Yes, so true but this actually is evident in all sentient life. Humans often deny that fact so as to commit atrocities against them and justify the brutality that is required to render them “meat” and eat them.
Free will is the reason that there are souls in Hell, I was taught. God cannot force anyone to love Him, and there are obstinate souls who refuse his Graces, his Mercy. So they chose hell out of their free will.
I believe that we are given free will to choose.
Beautifully explained bishop! I am unconvinced that neuroscience has disproven free will; it seems that the jury is out on that one. I prefer a soft libertarian approach and molinism in my beliefs, but if neuroscience somehow showed us to be “deterministic” I am comforted with this alternative explanation of freedom.
Freedom is responsibility.
As someone who has studied psychology I can tell you that all action is belief driven. What compels us to act is our emotions, these emotions are once again determined by our beliefs as to what we believe unconsciously will lead to pleasure or to avoid pain. What we define as pain or pleasure comes down to our values and as Catholics our values are based on the teachings of Jesus. What we all do have is the ability to discern information and decide what direction to take those actions and at any moment if we decide with conviction we can override actions that in the moment seem overwhelmingly compelling. This is also where influence can be both a positive and negative thing, a person who under the wrong influence can be emotionally guided to both the narrow or wide path. I think people are so conditioned to function on auto pilot that they kind of think that something is controlling them and choice is useless and put it down as just how they are.
Being born into this world is kind of like being born on a moving train. We have free will but most things are beyond our control. We cannot determine the will of others, we cannot determine whether something good or bad will happen today or tomorrow, so I think most people are prone to make decisions based on the emotion of fear. I think this can be mistaken for being determined. Free will is what can allow us to overcome fear and obstacles and be problem solvers and to have faith (trust) in God.
I think the most pressing emotion is the fear of not being in control, or fear of the unknown. Trusting in God overcomes these fears if we allow it.
Stephen Merritt I respect your reply and agree with some of what you are saying but maybe not to the same degree. It's true we can't control others actions and we can't control factors outside of ourselves in terms of what each day will bring and for me this is where destiny or the Lords will comes into play to a certain extent. There is often lessons in these factors for us to learn or grow from and ultimately take on a positive attitude about. There is however also the possibility to influence people (for the power of good) by offering help or support, sometimes in small or somewhat insignificant yet powerful ways, just like Fr Barron shares his wisdom to reach us in some way which at some level will quite possibly influence out decisions and behaviours.
You are right, a lot of people are driven by fear which is what I alluded to as pain and that need to avoid it is linked to a primal need for survival, however unlike other species we have the ability to make and attach meaning to things (one very strong reason to contemplate the belief in a God). On a more everyday level what this means is outside our need to keep ourselves alive there are people that link pain to boredom and are constantly looking for ways to entertain or thrill themselves, others need the routine because it makes them feel grounded and certain.
Mother Teresa linked pain to seeing the poor suffer and serving them and giving them dignity to a pleasure of sorts, therefore living her highest values in Christ.
You are right, faith banishes fear and I also think it releases untapped potential the Lord put into us, for me I sometimes think it's the very meaning of life. Handing it all over to God is a very healthy thing to do and a way to emotional freedom if done in the spirit of sincere faith. There are some good books out there by a Carmelite monk who's name is Fr Luiz Jorge Gonzalez on psychology, he's even written a book on modelling Jesus, they aren't so much theological but focus more on how to be more like Jesus in your humanity.
I don't know your denomination but although I'm Catholic I like the work of our Protestant brother Norman Vincent Peale's too. He fathered the positive thinking movement and shows many practical ways to become more aware of the thoughts you think, overall showing that with effort you can become more conscious of how they effect your emotions and behaviours and it's relationship to the control you have over your free will. He often uses scripture passages as affirmations that make very powerful global beliefs to live by, having said this his approach is simply a practical Christianity, he purposefully keeps his theology out of it, my theology is firmly in my Catholic faith.
Anyway, I've rambled on a bit too long but I pray the Lord blesses you and your loved ones.
An implication of this discussion is prayer. Praying cannot change God's ultimate plan, I guess. However, every destination has multiple ways of getting there, not just one way. It seems that in prayer, we are simply asking for our preferred way. Whether or not we are granted that way is up to God, as well as our own free will, I guess... Perhaps Origen was right about universalism? Perhaps salvation is not a question of if but a question of when.
Universalism is a heresy in Catholicism, but not in E.Orthodoxy
@@guineapig55555 I truly hope the two unite again.
Can bishop barron write a book on Free Will please?
21:18 Now you're getting it. Yes we are just 'sophisticated animals'. Why are such incredibly simple concepts so hard for religious people to grasp?
Yet the religious people are already one step ahead of you, the Catholic Church accepts a stance on evolution as it’s guided by God.
awareness is usually a gradual growth. Even the awareness of one's choices. Also, every miracle performed means by definition an action outside of nature. Every miracle is proof that man can act outside nature and nurture, We are therefore not necessarily bound by either.
What about St. Augustine's double predestination?
4:00
I've always thought that the neurological experiment against free will that Brandon is discussing was bogus. It's good to see that its conclusion has been debunked.
In going thru my simple faith and reason, I tend to rationalize that God endowed Adam and Eve with free will for a reason. God loves His human creation, Adam and Eve, so overflowing that He wanted them to love Him back on their own accord freely. As the story went on, disobedience happened, and we saw the adverse repercussions thru the biblical history.
My question on free will is, if we truly have it, why don't we all have a precognition of accepting to be created?
If free will is what we have and in order for it to be consistent, when was I freely given the choice to be created?
It seems to me that without being given the choice to be created, then I simple don't have free will and was forced into exsitance...
That is not a free choice, that is being forced in to something I have not chosen. There is nothing free about my exsitance!
Well your whole point is absolutely illogical because for you to be a given choice to be created or not, you would have to be created in the first place without a choice to be given a choice between the former or the latter!
Hi Bishop Barron, Thank you very much for for your RUclips videos and homily podcasts. I've been listening a lot, and found much illumination. Your discussion of free will sparked a concern I have that I know you have spoken much about. Specifically, it relates to our culture's reverence for freedom above all else, including submission to God and the moral law. I know, understand, and agree with your view on the subject. But as a parent I am also concerned with how popular culture impacts my small children on this issue. For example, I was watching the Disney movie Frozen with my two very young kids, and was surprised that the lyrics to the most popular song from that film include the words: "No right, no wrong. No rules for me. I'm free!" What should I do vis-a-vis my kids when very popular materials espouse such viewpoints? I worry that they are so young that they will not be able to understand what I can say in rebuttal, but the stories may have a subconscious influence on them. I am also concerned with banning them from such materials, as it feels heavy handed and might impair them socially.
It takes free will to question free will. To not use it is blasphemy.
Wonderful discussion. I absolutely love your videos. I cherish my Faith and your videos bring an intellectual thought as to why I believe. I would believe anyway because of personal experience., but your videos do bring an additional dimension
If everyone agreed on either belief, then it would seem that there is no free will. The fact that some agree and some disagree, demonstrates that there is free will.
Nope, we have different beliefs because we use different arguments to come up with our opinions. If you want to see how free will is debunked see Sam Harris, Cosmic Skeptic and Rationality Rules about it
@@konyvnyelv. You have described free will.
@@SuperIliad Nope, determinism could account for that. You haven't proved anything.
@@ACharmedEarthling Circular reasoning. You HAVE proved something. You could benefit from a better understanding of determinism.
@@SuperIliad I'm still waiting for an actual argument.
We are given freedom within the predetermined parameters of our life. I read in the Catholic catechism that God is the primary cause and that man is the secondary cause. The Orthodox church says that we participate with God in a synergistic way. In Phillipians 2:12,13 St. Paul encourages them to work out their salvation and he says that it is God working in them. Simultaneously it is God and us working. In a philosophical way we can say the two sides of reality are the absolute and the relative. God is the absolute and we are the relative. In an absolute sense God is sovereign and on the relative side we have our choices we make and are accountable. It is two sides of the same coin. We can realize this if we surrender our will and live a life of contemplation and obedience to God's Word.
The quantum indeterminacy answer to the free will question is inadequate for 2 reasons: 1> it is but one interpretation of seeming quantum paradoxes, it is not the definitive interpretation, but 2> and more importantly, all such recourse to science rests on materialism. And the mind, as our philosophy teaches, the intellect, is immaterial and as with the pure intellects of the angels rests on entirely different modes, principles and objects of causality, and governance then those of mere matter. The human intellect, though closely related in some way to the workings of matter, fundamentally, substantially, is generated by the same immaterial, free, not materially determined, spiritual causality that governs the angelic mind. When we look into the brain we see nerves, ganglion, cells, traces of electricity etc; but try as we might, or better, imagine as we might, we will never see an idea, nor a syllogism, nor a poem, nor a mathematical formula. Scientists may think they are seeing thought, but they are not, they are seeing stuff, matter in motion. Not ideas, not concepts, not their elaborations in thought, - just stuff apprehended in it's workings by non stuff bearing, materially undetermined thought - yes thought modified by matter, but not determined by it. Therefore, invoking Heisenberg just recapitulates and reinforces mistaken materialist assumptions. and is no answer to the question of free will.
The brain is a switch box. the Soul thinks.
seems my comment did not send. the soul thinks, not the brain.
Quantum mechanics is indeterminate... There's no escape from this...
My favorite response to the free will question was actually by Christopher Hitchens. He said, "Of course we have free will. We have no choice."
hitchens already knows the error of his ways. also, evil and bad acts destroy free will, which is why reprobates are all so helpless in this area. God has given them over to sin.
@@JPX7NGD Some say there are those among the religious who cannot recognize wit or humor. I'm glad you've shown us this isn't so. Thankfully, you were able to stumble over a joke and use it to preach. Good on you. That's exactly the sort of example which will surely draw people to God through the love of Jesus Christ.
Say what you will of Hitchens' rejection of the Church, but if a reprobate is an unprincipled person, it is hardly a fitting accusation. He was a man with quick & cutting wit and a profound sense of morality. I'll remember to light a candle & pray for his soul.
You'll forgive me I hope if I don't share your rather Calvinist view of a God who simply gives people over to sin & corruption. If God is eternal & unending love, I doubt He would abandon any of His children. I'll leave the judgment of others to you and to God, since you apparently speak for Him.
@@Mr._Anderpson There is only Salvation via being a part of the Church and all sin must be paid for by Penance. you support a monster then sneer "it was a joke" all while vomiting the heresy of universalism and accusing me of being a heretic out of despair (delusion you will absolve yourself by projection). a reprobate is one given over to sin because they have chosen sin over God. there was not an evil that drunkard hitchens did not so desperately promote against the Church. just look at his possessed-seeming actions at the mere thought of St Mother Theresa of Calcutta.
that's a shockingly bad analogy by Hitchens. He should know that free will existing or not isn't in the domain of choice, but rather the domain of absolute truths--for example, the Christian God exists or he does not, we don't "choose" whether or not God exists. Free will either exists or it doesn't--it's not even a matter of whether or not it's a choice. I get the joke he was trying to make but the analogy itself is just pretty bad.
@@joeybodnar That's what happens when someone looks at a glib joke and tries to pontificate about its flaws. Always a good look.
Good luck digesting other bits of humor.
Who is the protestant theologian bishop Barron mentions at 8:00? English is not my first language
Paul Tillich
HappyAmerican thanks
Very good interview... thank you.
Questions for Christians:
What actually is free will?
How does free will work?
If free will exists outside of God's control, doesn't that mean He's not all powerful?
Does free will take into account all the natural phenomena that seem to influence human decision (e.g. human reason, knowledge, emotion, hormones, memory, external stimuli from the environment, etc) or is it completely independent from these?
If it's not independent, where is the line between free will and determinism?
How much influence do external factors have vs free will?
How can you possibly know how much of your decision is due to natural phenomena and how much is 'free' without knowing all the natural factors influencing your decision?
If there is something outside of the natural world that tips a decision one way or another, how does it work, and if it's detached from human reason, personality and emotion, how can it even be part of a personal decision?
In pondering these questions, I go back to question one: What actually *is* free will?
Many of your questions were actually answered in the video. I will attack determinism in a very different way. I will start from experience, as a phenomenologist. You experience free will. You certainly feel every morning YOU decide what you eat for breakfast. You don’t think, “I wonder what the collection of atoms has for me today?” Which presented a problem for determinism for a long time. But they wiggled out by saying I have an illusion of free will. You say illusions are real, but not a faculty of matter. You play on a positivism and decedent romanticism. I’m sorry to say illusions aren’t here. There is no illusions of free will. This is a dualism in modernity. Which is why Fitzgerald in “The Great Gatsby” says-and the book is a harsh critique of modernity-I feel I am both within and without. Determinism implies you have no ontological home. You are alienated from yourself. That’s the transformation from Ockham and Duns Scotus to Luther to Descartes to Hume to Kant and finally you get a simultaneous and contradictory world view that is romantic and positivist. Which is why Jung’s first great book is symbols of transformation and his fear that we have lost our contact epistemology and thus symbols of transformation. Now we will be meaningless actors. Is that not determinism? We are all meaningless actors? Watching ourselves in a movie? Are we not alienated from ourselves in determinism?
@@mariog1490 Wow, in that pretentious rambling epic, you managed to answer not one of the questions I posed. Try again - this time without the pseudo-intellectual word salad please.
@@ACharmedEarthling I’m sorry, I just felt that your questions were answered in the video. Is there something I should explain in my response? What is pretentious about it? I thought I was perfectly clear.
How is one able to live in a world, enveloped by it, supposedly created for you. And not be effected by it? Thats what it would take for us to be «free».
Even ouer judgments are determined by previous experiences. Compatabilism doesn’t use the Word «free», Its just will.
Just a reminder, randomness won’t give you free will, niether will determinism, and niether any combination of the two. And i if you think otherwise, show how
Agreed. It's more like being in a prison. Your will is very much confined to the prison. Sometimes with higher intelligence and information it's like being in the yard of the prison. Sometimes it's like being in a cramped cell. The quantum consciousness has for sure brought back the debate of how many degrees of freedom there is to one's will.
It would a hugely interesting debate with mentalist Derren Brown that more than scientific experiment seems to underline how much the external influence can "undermine" subconsciously our free will.
Free will is the responsibility to do Good. you are confusing that with choice. Choice is limited to making the right choice.
@@JPX7NGD can you expand?
@@astrol4b I cannot simplify things further. Freedom is responsibility. Will is the Capability to do Good. any evil act (those that lack Good and seek to destroy Good) negate the will and choice. you can also look up Venerable Fulton Sheen's tv show episode called "Freedom," it is on youtube.
What are your thoughts on/about Hinduism and Buddhism???
It does, unless you believe in universalism, universalism that means we all go to heaven. If that is so, than we don’t have free will. Nothing we do matters.
Thank you, Bishop Barron. You do a lot of good work for the Church. Could you please speak on the troubling Amazon Synod and its pagan “working document”? We need more shepherds to speak out. God Bless you!
Why does God not listen to me?My enemies have progressed in life,jobs,families,careers etc.I have been left on the scrapheap.No job,no love interest,poor health,left disfigured by a thug,memory gone.Where does God come in to this?God has passed me and my family by.
We can determine the free will others will make by threats or reward.
Free will is the requirement to do Good. choice is negated and made impossibly by any bad or evil. you do not know what you are talking about.
@@JPX7NGD Your statement "Free will is the requirement to do good" I thought that if someone had free will they could also do what is said to be bad or evil. I think it is you who don't know what you are talking about.
@@zephyr056 Let me repeat myself from talking to another one here: Freedom is responsibility. Will is the capability to do Good. Good is anything as God created it to be. The will also does not exist without understanding Good as Good.
Free will is therefore the responsibility to do Good. One can ONLY choose Good. doing evil and bad things are actually a request for God to remove your will and so turn you over to death and sin. this is why evil people cannot recognize evil and helplessly do terrible things even though they regret it.
Amen Thank you
On a different, yet important aspect, I would very much encourage Bishop Baron to hold a water bottle, on his next show, and not a PLASTIC one!!! No "libre arbitre" , Bishop, as our planet is suffering...This topic is one of my favored one, Free Will. Thank you for the references and the insights!
I was really hoping for a specific reference from the Bible mentioned; which is a question I've been awaiting an answer for, for years. It will not affect my faith, but I've refrained from asking anyone incase it affects theres. However, "ask, seek, knock"....
In Revelation; it talks of 144,000 men being spared and protected (a long time ago I read this, so forgive my poor recollection..) but as I understand it, it spoke of 144,000 men of Israel being protected under exile and were the pure/holy. If the Bible can stipulate a pre decided quantity of people of whom will remain righteous; then it is pre decided that the others will fall by the wayside, and hence their free will is superfluous.
I would welcome any (informed) feedback on this please.
Your Excellency, it sounds like the position you articulate is Molinist, not Thomist. My understanding of the Thomist position is that God moves the will to choose as first and direct cause, but that this is not an affront to its freedom. For Thomas, "the will" is synonymous with "free will." In other words, he seems to hold that it is not possible that the will not be free, and this due to its very nature as a choosing things. It is not possible, he thinks, that the will be coerced (even though the person can be coerced to do something AGAINST his will). It's at least internally consistent, because to be coerced is to do something against one's will. Whatever causes the will to choose, therefore, is not causing the will to do something against itself, since it is causing it TO choose.
Molina, for his part, seems to think this doesn't sufficiently account for human freedom, which is why he holds to what I'll call a circumstantialist position, where, as you said, God can providentially arrange things in such a way to bring about his plan for the cosmos without being the efficient cause of the will. I think this has its own problems too, but that seems to be your position and Molina's, not Thomas's.
I'm not yet convinced of the Thomist position either, but I am pretty convinced that Thomas's understanding of predestination and the will is quite different than Molina's, hence the big debates between the Dominicans and Jesuits, which I'm sure you're aware of. If you could comment on whether the position you defend in this video is more Molinist than Thomist, I would be greatly edified. May God continue to bless your work. Be assured of my continued prayers for your ministry, and please pray for me as well!
Freedom is responsibility. Will is the capability to do Good. Good is anything as God created it to be. The will also does not exist without understanding Good as Good.
Bishop Barron what do you think of kris Kriskotofson HERO & FREEDOM . *Blake?
There is no free will period
I have read that Libet's experiments have been criticized. My thought is that perhaps his experiment was designed wrong. If a scientist were to design an experiment wrong, that could mess up their results. One thing that scares me is that if it is commonly accepted that free will is an illusion, authorities could use that knowledge to attack civil liberties.
How so?
While I agree that we have free will, I would say it is greatly compromised by sin. I certainly wouldn't make man's ability to choose correctly the driving force of the gospel (not saying that you guys are doing this). I always take comfort in knowing that God chose us & that salvation doesn't rely upon my flawed free will. Sure, we can resist...but hopefully not forever.
Bishop Barron would do well to talk with Galen Strawson
Word on Fire is a gift. Thank you for your vision and service. Can you sometime discuss the work of Father Rohr?