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My favorite thing about One Piece's politics is that it never says specifically one system of government is bad and one system of government is good. It's far more nuanced and simple than that. One Piece's political statement is "The only good government is the government that cares about its people and is effective. Once it stops either of those things, revolt." I love that the phrase Smoker uses is "My pants ate your ice cream". it's both playful and puts the onus on himself that he ran into her, she didn't run into him. I hope they put it in the live-action as is and it's in the remake anime.
I'm struggling to think of a good nation-level government in One Piece that isn't a monarchy. Not that I have an issue with that, but it does make it hard to say that a variety of systems are being portrayed as viable.
Punkhazard got destroyed because Aokiji (an ice power wielding man who believes in lazy, unaffective justice standing on the left side of the island, represented by blue) fought Akainu (a lava power wielding man who believes in oppressive, absolute justice standing on the right side of the island, represented by red).
Also one thing I really found funny is that because we know inanimate objects can eat devil fruits and become sentient somehow, pants eating ice cream is technically possible and not just something you tell a child to keep them calm
I love the fact, that T-Bone, the Marine-swordsman in the Seatrain, thats one of the kindest Marines ever seen in One Piece, rips so much of his cloak to help his subordinates, that the Japanese signs for Justice turn into "positive" or "true" .
I’d say Oda’s portrayal of Monarchy showcases his view of power: power is poorly used if it is not accountable. King Nefrititi holds meetings with his subjects, Vivi goes undercover to protect her kingdom, that one Ox guy literally lives with the people of Drum Island. The bad rulers have the power, but are not accountable to their people. That creates a system bound for abuse
Dalton also specifically says he’s not worthy to rule and that he’s only trying to make amends for when he was following orders. Oda seems to believe the philosophy that the only people who deserve power are the ones who don’t seek it
Let’s also not forget Admiral Fujitora, who risked his position in the Marines simply for apologising to the people of Dressrosa and helping slaves escape Marijoa and who has a respect for Luffy regardless of his pirate status cause he thoughtlessly and candidly helps people for the sake of helping them.
I think someone you forgot was Comodore Pudding Pudding and his band of marines. They were the ones who shot a cannon ball at Arlong and ultimately fell to them. I think Oda intentionally wrote them to highlight the fact that there is good marines but maybe that path could be the most dangerous compared to the one Nekomuki took of just being bribed
Yeah! That kept bugging me the whole video, like it doesn't change the argument but we definitely saw decent "normal" Marines before. And the villagers acted like this wasn't the first time they'd seen Arlongs crew sink a Marine ship trying to help do it's not like that Captain was a one off, Nezumi was just a rat bastard and probably covered it up.
@@hansdampf6916she covered them in a sense. They still followed orders, they still tormented and oppressed the people of the island. They were happy that Morgan was beaten, but they were still the ones who imprisoned Zoro and threw a child over a wall
Doesn’t matter if you love em or hate em, the admirals have the most diabolical and outlandish introductions in the story, kizaru flying in a cannon ball is still in the back of my brain to this day
From what I understood is bellemere was essentially dead to the Marines. As far as they were aware she died in that battle. Seems like she found her own dinghy and was able to sail back to her home Village without the military ever knowing of it
I think that this ties in to the situation that Garp & Sengoku are currently in: once you have rank (as in, anything above chore-boy) , there is no such thing as retirement; you know too much (compared to the average citizen), and you either stay in some way, or are labeled as a defector - equally as much of scum as pirates, and possibly more insane (saying things like "the world will flood & it's the government's fault" & such). Honestly, with how it's framed, are we even sure that Oykot wasn't buster called, and that the story Bellemere told Nami & Nojiko wasn't the propaganda the World Government told the world? I mean, we see with Egghead that the story the World Government is going with is that the Buster Call was called because the Evil Emperor of the Sea "StrawHat" Luffy kidnapped the noble Dr. Vegapunk, who they were TOTALLY not aware of the betrayal of at all and definitely TOTALLY weren't planning the assassination of him or anything. When we the readers know it's the exact opposite.
Goes to show this flaw within the Marines and the difference Coby can bring to them. In Marineford it was his direct attention that they could be saving people. Bellmere may not have been the only one to survive that battle but the Marines will never know as they never intend to check if anyone is still alive
Something you left out about smoker that I think is important is the marines he serves over in punk hazard. They are individuals who are considered terrible people by the marines and closer to peoples understanding of what a pirate is then even most pirates in one piece. But those marines that are shunned and looked down on by the marines end up sacrificing themselves to save the children in punk hazard.
I still think that the best moment in one piece when it comes to depicting the marines is the verbal confrontation between Akainu and Fujitora because the line “If we have to lie to preserve our credibility then we had none to begin with!” Was enough to have Akainu speechless for even a moment.
"Pirates are evil, the Marines are righteous. These terms have always changed throughout the course of history! Kids who have never seen peace, and kids who have never seen war, have different values! Those who stand at the top determine what's wrong and what's right! This very place is neutral ground. 'Justice will prevail!' you say?! Well, of course it will! Whoever wins the war, *becomes justice!* " - Don Quixote Doflamingo
A couple of things I think are worth mentioning here: 1) After Marineford, Garp is shown going to Windmill Village and hang the "This island is under Marine protection" banner, so there's evidence that the marines actually did move to protect islands after Whitebeard's death. 2) Again after Marineford, most of the reactions from the world are of common people cheering for the Marines, so saying that the average person in OP fears the Marines feels disingenuous to me. (Tonjit's gag with Luffy and Aokiji also drives that home for me.) 3) Slavery is still very much illegal, and most of the clientele afaik is shown to be underworld criminals. The Celestial Dragons are just considered above it (which is 100% a fair criticism of the marines), but for everyone else, owning slaves is still illegal. 4) Maybe I missed something or just misunderstood, but SWORD wasn't started under Akainu and by design isn't really under his jurisdiction. The chief in command of Sword is X Drake, a character shown to not care much about taking sides between Pirates or Marines and usually just trying to do good. Also, I'm personally still holding on on judging Garp for the God Valley incident is because it feels like there's still missing information about it. If that's not the case, then he's 100% worthy of judgement. P.S. Now I need a video solely about Tashigi. She's hands down the best Marine ethics wise and I'm tired of pretending otherwise.
in egghead it was reveal that the Gorosei did order Akarinu to shot down the evaluate ship, even tho Akarinu has no issues with it, still worth pointing out
I agree with everything you said. I usually agree wholeheartedly with Melon but she isn't looking at this as impartially as she should; granted she admit she is biased. I strongly agree that saying the average person fears Marines IS disingenuous because it simply isn't true. Majority of them do not. This is shown time and time again we are shown how people around the world react to news; Marines are praised and pirates' downfalls are celebrated. While this is because they don't know the true nature of Marines (that they serve the world government, not the people), it is still false to claim the average person in OP fears Marines (heck majority of the examples we have are only near the East Blue).
@@randyshein1453 This yeah. Though, this is mostly because of how well the WG dies it's propoganda and sweeping it's unscrupulous acts under the rug. I think the rule is generally the closer you are to the Red Line/Mariejoa, the more likely you are to be scared of the Marines/WG since the CDs aren't exactly subtle about how they treat people. Which is rather ironic that getting closer to the seat of power of the WG also means you'll find more people afraid of the CDs and of the WG by proxy.
1) not strong evidence, considering that the Windmill village is of personal importance to Garp and that he constantly does his own thing. And we saw some other places being attacked by pirates. And Whitebeard’s hometown was protected by Marco, not marines. They attacked it. Also, Whitebeard’s territories are mostly outside the World Government’s jurisdiction, and we know it doesn’t extend protection towards such territories. 3) that’s just not true. We clearly saw the slave auction where people (not celestial dragons) bought slaves. Human criminals were sold as slaves, while other races didn’t even have that protection, and it was totally ok to capture and sell them.
About the first one: I think its safe to say thats more out of a personal standpoint. Garp is purposefully acting like a pirate here because he has personal connections to it and he himself would show up if anything happened. Its not part of the system. If it would, you would think the most vulnerable point for pirates to attacl, Fishman island would stand under protection. Especially given they are part of the reverie. Most islands Whitebeard protected were those not falling under the immediate protection of the marines anyway and we can see that with whitebeards hometown or with wano, the maines themself attacked these places, not trying to protect them after killing their guardian
With the word 'Justice' on their coats it does give the imagery of them always having their back turned to the concept of justice, which is a cool detail as well
I agree with most but you skewed Garp’s answer a little bit. Garp isn’t like “abandon all old people because they’re worthless” but he makes a point. When Garp had asked Koby who he should save between himself, a Baby and an old man when there are only two spots on a boat, Koby says to save them. Garp says he’s wrong because he and that baby have way more life to live and the potential of youth is limitless. Garp asks why he wanted to join the marines and then says “To safe guard the future, right?” So how could he do that if he were to give his life for an old guy who would’ve died sooner than him more than likely?
I think the problem comes with 'why' should this be a lesson in the first place. Me personally I think the lesson of 'some people are inherently more valuable to protect than others' isn't a good one, but that's just me.
@@shawnshock8651because it is the lesson that you won't be able to save everyone and some sacrifices have to be made and some hard decisions have to be decided. It is the Practical look at reality, it's the same as understanding that yes you are throwing men into the meat grinder but you have to in order to distract the enemy long enough for the other division to flank them to win the battle
@@shawnshock8651 Because Garp sees himself as old, and eventually, expendable. It is shown in that specific moment to drive home the point that, after trusting the future of the Marines to a new generation, Garp will sacrifice himself without regrets
@@shawnshock8651 The reason why Garp had to teach it is because of who he is. He is seen as a hero a important figure that many people would die for all those young marines who grew up idolizing and would risk life and limb for him but to Garp himself he is just an old man not long from the grave. So he made sure his students knew if there ever came a time to choose between him and themselves they knew what to do.
Fun fact about Belmer's character : her name is a play on words in french. "Belle mère" means step mother which she obviously is to Nami as not her biological mother, also "Belle mer" would mean "beautiful sea", thematically linking her to Nami's name meaning wave
I believe you misunderstood Garp's point. He wasn't saying elderly weren't worth saving. He was saying that the youth are much more important, that's all.
He was saying that they should prioritize saving life, not people. Sacrificing the remaining lives of young people to rescue an old person doesn’t accomplish that
@@klingofgames1560 Garp saying how young Marines lives shouldn't be disposable, and should have their life ahead of them is the exact opposite of Akainu where he would kill the Marine despite making the old mans sacrifice meaningless.
To me, the marines were always a commentary on system and individuals. Because we start the series seeing the how there are terrible individuals in the marines, but dig a little more and you see that systemically it is flawed as good marines a made incapable of doing the good they joined the marines for (see Smoker at the end of Alabasta and Garp at Marineford) while providing protection for those who do wrong. BUT dig a little MORE deeply, and you see that it does still go back to the work of individuals, as systems don’t just manifest out of the ether. This is what always made the world of OP so good - the very natural, progressive domino effect of people, places and events influencing other people, places and events.
Thank you so much!!! I really appreciate the support, and the civilian's fear really stuck out to me when we first met Smoker. It's one of the reasons I really like the twist of his introduction 🥹
fujitora isn't a marine in the same sense as most. He was drafted into the marines, and has pretty much only acted in ways to undermine their authoritarian actions.
I feel like something often missed about Smoker's character at least from what I picked up on, is Smoker seems to want to act as a 'filter' for what he deems worthy pirates. His entire goal in Lougetown seemed to be any pirates that couldn't best him don't deserve to enter the grand line. Considering that Smoker was present at Roger's execution I think he holds a weird sense of admiration for him. I think his 'marine justice is bullshit' stance is because he saw no justice in Roger's death. And his chase on Luffy is simply his pride and not an actual disdain for pirates, because Luffy never actually beat him to prove he was worthy in Smoker's eyes. That is my view on the character at least. I think he has always been aware of the problems of 'us vs them' but he wants pirates to prove themselves to him. And the straw hats have done so.
At no point does Garp say old people are expendable. His point of view is that if one is forced to make a choice, there is no point in being idealic , save the future. That doesn't equate to the person you didn't save having little value.
But if anything thats idealistic (in a way), certainly more than it is the opposite. There's nothing necessarily more pragmatic about saving younger people.
Something I always liked but it probably wasn't intentional is that Whitebeard's jacket looks almost exactly like the Admirals' jackets, only his doesn't have the Justice kanjj on the back, and despite that Whitebeard managed to have a better vision of justice than Akainu, who literally wears it on his back
What I and one of my friends discussed once was how, with the progress of the story, each of the major individual of the marines force is striped of his ideal just because they choose or force to follow the government justice. Kuzan, Aokiji for someone, is a believer of doing the right thing, but after Ohara can't recall the strength to do anything at all. Borsalino Kizaru is a fan of "follow the order", nothing was good or bad if he just do what someone else, maybe someone more capable was doing the thinking... but after Egghead is broken because he wasn't able to rebel the order given. Sakatsuki, Akainu, was all about do the everything possible for "THE JUSTICE". But after he follows the path of the power he was striped of each freedom and can't do anything at all... Even after becoming the highest possible position of the world. Each of this examples of great man try in some ways to change or improve the world or the system but in the end each one, in one way or in another, they were broken and bend to sustain and maintain the same sistem they try to reform. Tragic... (Sorry for my bad English)
First of all, your english is pretty good so keep working at it and hopefully you will realize that too. I never thought about the values of the admirals being striped away like that but it makes sense with the examples you provided. Who knows if this will happen to any other marines.
When I was in the army there was a rule that we were specifically taught. A lot of rules can be disregarded under threat, but that was the one rule that my commander made it as clear as possible that it had to be followed- When you are given a command, no matter the type of command, that makes you question your moral integrity, do not hesitate to disobey it and throw it further up the ladder. In my country's military it's called the 'Conscience Command'. The fact that the marines, which are supposed to be a military force that enforce the laws of the world government, don't have that type of protocol, struck me as odd from the moment I began watching/reading OP.
The point about Sengoku and the Cafeteria is brilliant. They’re so preoccupied with “T-Bone was a good person”, “That money is coming from pirates” and “Buggy is such a nefarious genius”, etc all the while going “I know they were poor and hungry but that’s not an excuse”. I find Tsuru and Sengoku fascinating but I definitely don’t click with their morality.
sengoku's such a weirdly layered guy. basically sacrificing an island's worth of marines to kill ace, then going on to have an earnest heart-to-heart with law about corazon and not lifting a finger to apprehend him
@@Tyrannodrone475The World Government forced the Navy to kill Ace , they wanted him dead but they didn't kill him because they didn't want the smooe with Whitebeard.Sengoku has many things to manage as a Fleet Admiral + all the lives of innocent soldiers that leave their homes voluntarily to protect countries and islands from pirate raids. Oda will do him a backstory as he is too much of a figure not to look upon his past and i guarantee we will definitely see Sengoju has always been the best chief the Marines ever had under whose leadership most islands became successfully immune to pirate raids as to raid these islands it means you have no problem picking a fight with the Navy. And no he didn't sacrifice anybody.Like we said on the beginning.As the Whitebeards were proud to die rescuing Ace , the Marimes were proud to die defending their fort.Well the latter didn't do a bad job , did they?
35:00 the whole scene is more a grey area again when you realize the bounty was of T-bone while not the strongest marine was way stronger than the average man no way he was captured by and killed by a old man he more than likely gave himself up so the people could be fed with his bounty money
Thinking of the Marines two things come to mind and I don't know which one of em i luv more: 1st) Doffy epic speech at Marineford: "Pirates are evil? The Marine is justice?" 2) Punk Hazard, where Sanji and Smoyan's Marine crew team up and Tashigi keeps saying to the crew: "stop calling him pirate-buddy" (kaizuku aniki) 😂❤ ..and after the banquet the Marine crew has a mental breakdown while trying to process that they like the Strawhats. 😂🎉✨
My favorite part of the smoker ice cream scene that was subtle he apologized to the girl I feel like even most good marines would have(even politely and with good intentions) lectured the girl telling her to be more careful etc smoker realized he was in the wrong gave her some money and went about his day
Call me crazy, but I thought Garp's point was more "If you're forced to choose who lives and who dies, what do you do?", and less "Old people are disposable".
"The kind of evil that doesn't realize that it's evil, is the worst kind of evil there is." - Weather Report, from JoJo's Bizarre Adventures: Stone Ocean
I think the only thing missing from this analysis is identifying what pirates stand for. Because although the meaning of a pirate can mean almost anything to an individual, the story has made it pretty clear that being a pirate is synonymous with freedom. What we see from pirates is that they are the outcasts who work outside of laws and convention to do whatever they want. They work on the open seas so that they can be free. However, the same way that marines pursue justice and are corrupted into controlling others, some pirates pursue freedom and remove the freedoms of others when they choose to do whatever they want without considering the needs of others (killing, robbing, etc). Only by getting characters who absolutely stand for what they believe in, can we get characters like Luffy (freedom for not just himself) and Koby (justice that’s not bought by the world government). I think pirates and marines are definitely parallels in this sense and serve this similar function in the story
Is it just "some pirates" who act like criminals willing to hurt the innocent or is more like the norm? Do pirates in OP live by a moral code? Generally speaking? Or is it rather that beeing free also means free of morality?
@@hansdampf6916There are a great deal of pirates who harm others for their own gain (Doflamingo, Kaido, Big Mom, Caesar Clown, Buggy and Alvida at the beginning of the series, and all their associated crews and lesser bad guys). In fact, it’s the reason so many people are afraid of your average pirate and the reason they have garnered the reputation they have over the years. However, all pirates pursue freedom of convention regardless of morality. They all follow their own moral codes and guidelines. Some choose to have morals while others don’t. For example, Roger, Whitebeard, Odin, and the Strawhats for sure have morals and values. They are good people at heart. However, Doflamingo, Kaido, Big Mom, and Caesar Clown (to our general conventions) are absolutely abhorrently evil. However, even Kaido and Big Mom have values and codes they view as ethical even if they are amoral or alien to us. Kaido believes in survival of the fittest and Big Mom believes in protecting her family (even if her methods of doing so are twisted). They are not exactly free of morals because they themselves create their own. In fact, Doflamingo has a line that says it best: “Whoever wins the war becomes justice.” Whoever comes out on top as the most powerful decides right from wrong. By extension, the most powerful is usually the most free. The pirates are not free of morals just because they pursue freedom. However, they often pursue power to either run amok doing whatever they want or to enforce their view of the world over that of others. In fact, it’s another reason why pirates contrast marines so well. Justice is blind and has no opinion, which is oftentimes why characters who represent justice are bought out by the world government or other forces. Justice is not meant to impart its will on you because it’s supposed to be fair, but because it has no original view of the world it is incredibly easy to be shaped by others, which compromises its ability to be impartial. The pirates on the other hand love to impart their view on the world for better or for worse. In their pursuit of doing what they believe in, they change lives, claim territory, and bring others to their cause. You can’t really change who they are through a system like the marines, and they leave lasting impressions and stories to be told because their convictions are so strong and drastically different from each other
I think you're being a bit uncharitable with Garps teachings, he was saying that if someone has to be unavoidably sacrificed, it should be the old man, not that elderly never have to be saved. And(this is not my observation, but it's SO GOOD) he's being contrasted by Saturn and by proxy, the other Elders who are more ancient than anyone and would NEVER put someone before themselves, no matter the situation. On Fullaled Garp had hold back Kuzan and the other strong BB pirates, it was a thing SOMEONE had to do if anyone were to escape, Garp made the executive decision that it was to be him. Egghead is slightly different, it's not about who stays behind, but everybody doing, everything they can to save as many as possible.
After the reveal of the Iron Giants name being Emeth, with all it's implications of Jewish myth, I joked to a friend that OP is turning into Shin Megami Tensei now. Now watching this made me realize how I might have been closer to the truth than I thought. Not in terms of catching demons of course but rather how its morality system works. SMT's morality doesn't work like Good vs Evil but rather Law Vs Chaos, not making any judgement on either one being better but rather presenting good and bad aspects to both these philosophies. In theory at least. Law/Marines would represent order and peace but also tyranny and loss of freedom and individuality, Chaos/Pirates represent Freedom and conflict with individuality as a high virtue but also a kill of be killed attitude.
I still think Garp is right to prioritize the young over the old in situations where you have to save someone. The old have grown and lived their lives and time and time again I see that it's the old and in power that try their hardest to cling to said power. You can try saving everyone, but try to save the youth as they have to live in a world the old created.
I don’t think Garp was actually saying that the elderly was expendable, but rather it is more important to save the youth even at the cost of old people
I just saw someone comment connecting it to garp himself As we all know, garp himself is already old. But he's still considered the hero of marines, the probable reason why people join the marines. He's trying to say that if there comes a moment where the younger marines are in danger, they should save themselves instead of sacrificing their lives for him, an old man who's already near deaths door
I'm thinking of my OC crew, whose story is that they were basically just island hoppers, carrying cargo and passengers, and then a Celestial Newt decided he wanted their captain for a bride (when the whole reason she set out to sea was to find her True Lady Love), so her crew fought back and all of them got bounties from it.
corazon is one interesting marine to me bc as someone who was a previous world noble and who knew first hand how messed up the system is ,he still joined the marines the very system that he knew how terrible it is and he refused to be a pirate and hid this info from law that he was a marine bc he understood the evil things that the marines did to law i think the pirate system is to extreme and a dog eat dog world where the normal regular citizen will not survive so i think most marines just wanna protect the weak not to defend the world government (like smoker) this makes luffy feel like a breath of fresh air since he doesnt follow the pirate way of destroying the weak and has alot of pirate friends and doesnt follow the marines and he does more good than them and doesnt ask for money the way the marines do in order to receive their protection
I don't get how anyone can say "I wholesale like pirates in One Piece and wholesale dislike marines". Even if we disregard Coby, Smoker, Tashigi, Garp, Aokiji and probaby other named marines that are (very) decent people that I forgot to mention, we know that all the unnamed marines are mostly decent people too, just like people in general. Just think back to the first villain, Captain Morgan, and how the marines who served (suffered) under him celebrated when Luffy took him out. And while we know a lot of decent named pirates in One Piece, are they really representative of pirates in One piece in general? I would even argue that the average marine is much more likely to be a decent person than the average pirate. But pirates are "cooler", sure. 😄
Smoker was always my favourite marine. But it wasn't until recently when I re-read One Piece from start to current, that I began to see what I love most about him. He's reminds me of Sam Vimes from Discworld in that he's an anti-authority Authority figure. Someone who only believes in what he witness for himself rather than follow everyone's prejudices.
Dud you completely forgotten about Tbone😭 My man was the embodiment of altruism! How do you think that old guy got a marine bounty??? That talk about heroism was spot on tho👌
I say it as a fan of your videos, but I feel like this video was too much superficial talk and repeating of concepts and it could have done with a few more in-detail analysis of important singular scenes and character arcs, such as (current) Coby's, Tashigi's, or Corazon's whole undercover arc. Tashigi has a line in Alabasta that is literally "f*ck Justice and f*ck Marine Headquarters" that I would have liked to see here, or how she's literally famous among the citizens for helping people (see the beginning of ch. 673). Cora-san's belief in his undercover work as a Marine going against his own brother and his relationship with Sengoku might have been worth a mention. I also don't know where you got that SWORD answers to Sakazuki from, because that's not true. We still don't know who their leader is, if it's Drake, or if there even is someone higher up.
My favorite way to describe one piece is “imagine an dystopian nightmare of a society, but you travel through it from the perspective of loony toon’s Saturday cartoon angle” 😂 Seriously, it’s probably the thing I love the most in op 😅
@PSI441 people just call fascist to whatever nowadays uh? Lol Fascism requires nationalism, which the marines are not, lol Are they authoritarian? Yes Are they fascist? No
I think there needs to be some separation between the everyday marine and the higher ranked ones making decisions. For 99% of marines they are normal people going to work providing for their families etc and don't really have a way to change the system. The high ranked marines to me are depicted similarly to kings. Not an outright problem but depends on the individual. If u have a corrupt one it corrupts all the way down.
Melonteee gotta say youre my most favoutire ONE Piece youtuber as you dont look at the story just on a mechanical lvl or with a aluminum hat but rather on a emotional lvl
I wish you brought up Fujitora. Hes the only marine ive seen actually admire a pirate, aside from Koby. We havent had much about Fujitora since Dress, but his remark at the end about how he regrets blinding himself cause he wishes he could see Luffy's face had me bawling for an hour when i first saw it 😭😭😭😭😭
You mark my words, Oda is going to make Akainu’s backstory the most heartbreaking and tragic flashback of all time. Like im fully ready for him to have a backstory like Kuma’s…. Except with NO HOPE in it at all. Akainu’s belief in justice can only come from such a place where he believes the alternative is so much worse
It could be argued that the marines having the word "Justice" on their back is not what they believe themselves to be, but what many aspire to be or achieve through their service. The marines are not a monolith and the story very much skews the perception of the reader to view them in a certain light. The protagonists are pirates, the natural enemy of pirates are marines. We constantly see bad examples of the marines because Oda wants us to root for the Straw Hats at all times so anyone they come into conflict with must look bad by comparison. The only time this framing is subverted is ehen Oda wants the opposing side to become future allies. The Straw Hats never do anything particularly heinous or unforgivable in the readers eyes, so we are never given a chance to see the marines be justified in their actions or viewpoint. And yes, while pirates can be anything and they don't try to present themselves as heroes or saviors, the horrendous actions that I dare say most pirate crew commit should not be overlooked. Many people in many towns, islands etc generally fear pirates just as much as they do the marines or celestial dragons. I guarantee that if a spin off of Piece ever happened that focused on a group of marines, opinions would change because we would see things from an insider perspective.
I disagree in the marines only ever being shown in a good light if they might become future allies. Namis hometown had marineships try to free it, but failed. We never saw them again but thy tried. T-Bone was an enemy of zoro in the sea train but he was constantly shown as a good person until he died. Yes its easier for us to see the bad of the marines too but I think thats the point. For a majority of the population they are presented in a completely good light and when that veil lifts for the normal person its already too late. (Innocent citizens of Flevance and Ohara, slaves captured like animals) A Pirate however can see the whole ugly truth and while yes their actions shouldnt be overlooked either the main difference is that each pirate captain can decide on their own what they do. If there were a marine spinn-off, I wonder if it would still include things like "The MC is suddenly ordered to retrieve escaped slaves" or "Attack your own base in a buster call despite there still being soldiers of your own present on the island"
@@corvus6381Flevance was utterly destroyed by Government agents the Marines never took part in its holocaust.What the Government hates is that the Marines aren't entirely forced to obey it since they have their own code and sorry it may hurt a lot of oirate fellas but most of the islands in the One Piece world are safe because of the Marines not anyone else that's why you see so many people liking them , just the Marines , not the World Government.
@@lorddarkrai5753 There has never once been shown an instance where the marines could choose not to obey the WG. Garp coming closest but even he has to stay a vice admiral to not become an admiral which are literally called "the celestials lapdogs" like come on dude. I never said they arent overall liked but they sure as hell werent always shown in a positive light. The countries who are almost too poor to afford the tax to stay part of the WG were shown over and over how afraid they were to reach that state of not being able to pay anymore. Marines literally raiding sphinx and the people of lulusia being more deperate about their tax money getting stolen than their own lifes. And if you really think those werent marine troops at flevance you are simply delusional sorry. Why do you think Law has such a great hate for the marines? Do you really think they sent Cp members for that dirty work? Nah the lesser muscle work like that is done by marine ships just like the re-capturing of the escaped fishman slaves
@@corvus6381 Every Marine is wearing a cape with Justice.They also have the same uniform and a hat that spells Marine.They also have their distonctive Marine shipals and vessels.Not a single one of these were shown during the Flevance holocaust.Also there are many kinds of Hoverent agents not just the Cipher Pols.Also Cipher Pols are comprised of several layers , teams and agents not just the teams the Straw Hats took down.The Navy is more important in One Piece than you think. And sorry but no civillian would ever believe in some legend about the rebirth of a God tgat would save them during a pirate raid while Marine help is one Transponder Snail call away. As for the Koala incident Kizaru's intervention was all it took that allowed the Sun Pirates to keep their lives so there you have it another example. Without a force like the Navy pirates reign supreme and that's the worst news about the world. Also if the Government doesn't command it , the Navy can do whatever it wants.And what do you got?Most of the islands of One Piece being safe. There is that tiny problem with the Holy Tribute tax indeed but that's what Oda wants to show , that only if they work together can the problem be solved.
@@lorddarkrai5753 the justice capes are a thing for vice admirals and above. Everyone else is not allowed to wear them Literally when did I talk about nika? And yeah wow... Kizarus "intervention" aka the one where they only let koala go home for selling out fisher tiger? And only getting arlong back through jimbei becoming a warlors. So very merciful I lowkey have the feling I write with akainu right now XDD
This is my first MelonTeee video since I subscribed and I need to thank you! I'd almost given up on the manga because of watching nothing but negative video about the series. Your video reminded me why I love this manga and that there was more that I missed! So thank you for your amazing videos!!!
Sorry, I really enjoy your videos, but I couldn't finish this one. I am not a Marine fan (just a Coby fan, though I really-really like Garp, Drake, Tashigi and Fujitora), but the main reason pirates-as-a-whole are likable is because we are being guided by the Strawhats. I don't know how canonical Film Red is, but the first scene, with ordinary people saying what they've suffered under many of them, shocked me. Anyway, here's waiting for that Garp video.
Exactly, the Marines we interact with may be bastards a lot of the time but the ones protecting people from marauding pirates are the ones people support.
we don't really know that afaik, it's never been stated what the actual purpose of SWORD is and whose idea it was and what the motivation behind its creation was
Akainu is theorized to be a member or the leader of sword because he must know, he is the fleet admiral after all and because of a weird tattoo he has on his right shoulder of a sword that doesnt seem to be in the style of his other yakuza tattoos
That could be an "illegitimate" task force, one the Marines can publicly throw their hands up saying "not our doing!" whilst said task force still works for them?
I was always under the impression that Sengoku created it, and Rosenante was either one of its first members, or Sengoku did it after Doffy killed him. I have a hard time believing that Sakazuki is a part of it. The one most likely to have been a part of it was Kuzan. I’m basing that belief on the fact that Sengoku wanted him to succeed him, and not Sakazuki.
At 34:44 I feel like that moment goes a bit deeper than that, since while Sengoku is indeed complaining in a cafeteria stuffing his face about people hunting down marines for their bounties because they're starving, it's not any marine that got killed but T. Bone, one of the marines that have been explicitely shown to care very much about people and being in the same type of good intended marines as Koby. I don't think Koby is an anti-marine, there's plenty of them out there but this particular scene shows that while this kind of marines are on the field, trying to help and now getting killed for it, the complacent enforcers of the establishment are on the stuffing their face and complaining about how hard it all is.
i love love love the video, you make great points and notice things i havent and im always happy to widen my perspective :D i just have one comment tho: the marine system isnt flawed, it simply works as intended - designed by the world government, aka the celestial dragons, to groom people into being their personal guard/attack dogs; they just present it in the "nice" packaging of justice to make it more appealing to the common person
The point about SWORD having not done anything yet to help victims of piracy was brilliant. I honestly hadnt thought about it because i was so busy loving the Coby hype.
I love your videos so much, the way that u speak makes me tear up almost every time, I really don't know how but every single video that I see of yours make me get emotional in some way. Keep doing this amazing job. You're definitely one great RUclipsr.
Watching the show it feels like pirates like Luffy are rare to non existent. Everyone fears pirates as bloodthirsty cutthroats. But then you have Shanks or Whitebeard who you wouldn’t believe to be one considering how nice he is, and he’s an emperor of the sea. So you don’t need to be as ruthless and cruel as pirates like Big Mom or Kaido. Even the pirate king himself Roger wasn’t an evil man, he was like a big kid looking for adventure. I feel like when new people meet luffy and learn he’s a pirate are shocked cuz of how he looks and acts. But because he’s a pirate he’s still a criminal. He’s not out to take over towns and burn them, he just wants to explore new places and find the one piece. Even though he is reckless and causes collateral damage with his power we see he’s not a bad guy. But to the marines, he’s a pirate so he’s considered just as bad as guys that are cutthroats. I just find it interesting how luffy seems to be different from what people see as a pirate and he and his crew while pirates, have done a lot of good for people, good that the government failed to do. Which is why along with them being criminals and Luffy in possession of the gum gum fruit, the straw hats have been doing good the marines should have done. I mean fujitora acknowledged they were at fault for letting doflamingo go wild and Luffy and his crew saved dressrossa. The straw hats saved the kids that were being tested on in punk hazard because a double agent marine covered it up. Crocodile almost got away with taking over alabasta until Luffy and his crew stopped him. Smoker hated being given credit for that, cuz he knew he didn’t deserve it. It’s just funny how the marines look at Luffy like he’s a beast, then you have this goofy rubber man bouncing off their cannon balls cuz he just wants to keep exploring the sea.
As a marine i would get such whiplash from seeing emperor of the sea luffy bouncing around laughing and bending, yeah :) Also while there are certainly a lot of terrible pirates, the idea that all pirates are blood thirsty lunatics is one the world government perpetuates, enforces and probably started. After all they do control the news, at least to a certain extent. And we have no shortage of "good" pirates, brooks' crew, zeff, bonney, the old man descendent of nolan was one i think, etc., i think the surprise at luffy being so different than the stereotypical pirate is something we share with the average citizen of the world and that feels deliberate to me idk
Being a marine stan doesnt mean not knowing the navy is trash The marines are just cool ass villains, that get some heroes and anti heroes in their ranks
I've finished the part of Smoker as an excemption of the marines and one thing came to my mind when you point out numerous times that he hated the structure of the organization: He knew Dragon and respected him in Loguetown. Moreover, it is confirmed that Dragon was an ex-marine, as Aokiji is, that gives the chance that they met on service and hated together the Marine's predominant sense of justice. It gives more depth to the carachter as it gives a prelodious to how he will ended up acting in Alabasta. Oh man, I love Smoker
I think the only thing missing in this video is the focus on the heavenly tribute and how it saps wealth from unaffiliated countries. This in turn excludes groups from the Marine’s protection and forces Pirates to having to protect these territories. I feel that the marines likely didnt protect the Whitebeard territories because they did not pay the heavenly tribute. Its interesting how Whitebeard is a counter to the tribute where he often sends any personal treasure he makes to his own home town.
Exactly, one thing missing from her analysis is the fact that the "State" aka the Marines, are literally organized in a way to protect the interests of the ruling class, ALWAYS. If nations aren't paying tribute to the ruling class, then they're not contributing to the riches of the elite and are thus, simply an expense to protect. (If something isn't PROFITABLE, then it's not pursued, because the Owners don't benefit from its exploitation.) The State as it exists, can only exist in such an organized fashion insofar as this organization benefits the ruling class. That's why the Marines can NEVER be moral even if it's filled with all the Koby's in the world, due to the fact that the Organizational goal is to protect the status quo which upholds the ruling apparatus which the Celestial Dragons enjoy. It needs fundamental restructuring by the common men of the one piece world. Without their authority collectively upheld over the institution of the Military, the Marines will always act against the interests of the common people for the sake of "justice." SWORD is also another form this criticism has taken.
I wouldn't say that's the reason why. Remember, Whitebeard's terrirory was specifically ONLY in the New World (if you exclude Fishman Island, which is....pretty close, and a bit of a special case regardless). The Marines immediately after WB's death were occupied dealing with increased pirate activity the WORLD over, in all of the Blues and Paradise. We see this straight after the war. They also temrpaorily had reduced numbers (at least of their stronger members) due to losses at Marineford. This wasn't resolved until after the Draft. Protecting WB's territory would have required them to immediately rush to expand into the New World, take down the WB Pirate Remnants, and clash with the BB Pirates (who were aiming to take over that territory for themselves) and the other Yonko who likely would have made a move on it, along with random opportunistic pirates like Brownbeard. It was probably possible, but would have required a major military deployment end by the Admirals, rather than using those troops to secure what they already had. It likely just wasn't practical immediately following the war, and later on the pirates were firmly entrenched in that territory again, meaning they would need a full scale war to remove them. I'm sure the inability to pay the Tribute was a factor, but I would honestly believe the practicality of conquering and holding onto that section of the New World was more of an issue.
My thougts on the marines and how they are depicted are too complex and wide to cover in a RUclips comment, but I will say a few things. The marines are a neseccity in the world despite being worth heavy criticism. I think the way people think of them, see them, and remember them is a bit biased against them. That is to be expected of any organized protective group, however. Especially when put against the pirates who represent freedom. This goes back to the classic idea that freedom and safety are opposite each other. It's also easy to look at pirates and like them because they are often depicted separate from their heinous actions. Think of how much distaste people have for someone like Absalom, and then think about how many atrocities they are willing to disregard Crocodile having done because he's a suave MF. There is more to it but I don't have time to dive deeper. This is a pirate story, it's also supposed to be mostly fun and adventurous, of course it's easier to see the more fun and good parts of pirates, and to see the marines mostly as bad, especially since they have a vast amount of examples to pull from and the fact that the wold is literally run by demonic entities and the marines fall under them in the hirearchy. In the end I always think that Oda is really trying to show that there are no fully simple and clear answers to these questions. It's the individuals in the systems, it's the actions of the individuals, and even then it's the contexts of thise actions that all shape how good or bad something is.
Very well said. It's easy to hate on the marines and root for the pirates. But if you're a citizen in the One Piece world and one of the two is to dominate the world you better hope it's the marines. No one in their right mind would wish to live under the wims of a warlord, who answers to no one and who could be usurped by a bigger and badder warlord the next day. Yes if that warlord is Whitebeard, Shanks or Luffy you lucked out. But they are not the norm, plus we've seen with Whitebeard that such a beneficial patronage can also end very abruptly.
It’s nice to see that you’re becoming more comfortable being on camera, it’s really inspiring to see you grow in confidence in this way! I really enjoy your videos and it’s nice to see you enjoying making them too.
I am also especially interested in the direction SWORD will go in in the future. Now that Drake is back with them after Wano, and is fully aware that the World Government were having Cipher Pol trade weapons with Kaido, and probably get seastone to coat Marine ships from Kaido's factories too, and SWORD have heard Vegapunk's broadcast, their belief in the Marines may be greatly shaken going forward. Koby having been willing to team up with Perona, a pirate, to escape from Blackbeard's island is something I'm keeping in mind too.
I think Drake will share what he found out with the only Marines he can trust besides his unit: Sangoku (his mentor according to the website), Smoker and Fujitora.
This has to be one of the heaviest analyses you’ve done so far, and I honestly think that being able to see your face really lent the necessary weight to what you were articulating. Fantastic work
17:05 People being afraid of Smoker was explained as them being afraid of his devil fruit. Remember that this was the east blue and that was still a big deal. The sword shop owner had no problem shitting on Tashigi and screaming at her even though she's the second in command on the island.
Love the video, just wanted to clarify a little misinformation. Akainu isn't confirmed to be a part of SWORD, let alone the leader. That's something that some fans believe aka head canon. Also SWORD seems to focus on taking down the bigger threats as they have spies within Yonko crews and such. Plus with Koby being a prominent member and many of them looking up to Garp, I think it's safe to assume that most of the "good" marines are within this group. Love these videos a ton. I use them to help with my character writing 😁
another great video! One aspect I don't hear touched on a lot is how the Marine's forms of justice are often wrapped up in religious undertones. If you believe you are fighting for the world government which upholds the 'gods' of the world (celestial dragons), it's basically impossible to claim you aren't working for the 'good' of the world while persecuting those who don't provide a monetary value to your gods (kingdom tributes to Mariejois). The world government operates like an old school religious militia, crusades and all, where any faith in something other than the CDs and WG is treasonous and moving away from the path of god, etc. Oda does a great job at referencing the nuance related to the forms of government he showcases (Doffy's throne speech anyone?) and I appreciate the contrasts we see on the religious/spiritual side of things with Kuma praying to his god and possessing faith in his people eventually being freed versus the dogma laid down by centuries of one party rule upholding the Celestial Dragon class as literal gods to the 'normal' humans (Homing saying we are all human being heretical).
I swear even after one piece ends there will still be people dissecting it and that's what is so great about it. Oda's just on another level when it comes to story building. I watch videos almost every day that talk about one piece and I still find things that make me look at it in a different way. Like I never thought about the fact that Sengoku was at the cafeteria when talking about the guy who claimed the marine bounty to feed his village. I swear I need to start rereading it. You really have to pay attention to every single panel it seems to not miss something.
I would really like to know who the navy genius was who came up with the idea of increasing Robin's bounty by just 1 million after the Enies Lobby arc.
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peak video
Melonteee, I'm so proud of you for not mentioning Sanji for 43 minutes. I know that took a lot of restraint.
I was wondering about that 💔😞
I was about to say the same about Zoro's boobs but then in got to the sponsor part :3
She talked about Buggy instead 🤭
Talking about smoker definitely helped lmao
Nah im amazed she aint bring up katakuri 😭
Melonteee saying “I don’t like the Marines” made me fall to my knees in the middle of Walmart
I'm shaking and crying, how could she say such a thing
Did you at least find some One Piece cards in that Walmart?
@@DaxSchafferhell no you can’t find them anywhere 😭
My favorite thing about One Piece's politics is that it never says specifically one system of government is bad and one system of government is good. It's far more nuanced and simple than that. One Piece's political statement is "The only good government is the government that cares about its people and is effective. Once it stops either of those things, revolt."
I love that the phrase Smoker uses is "My pants ate your ice cream". it's both playful and puts the onus on himself that he ran into her, she didn't run into him. I hope they put it in the live-action as is and it's in the remake anime.
How ironic that this is the one criticism I have of the series 😅. I reserve judgement until the series is finished tho.
@@newjumpcityjosh9333 Is it a criticism of flawed morality or flawed writing in your opinion? or is it just not what you want the answer to be.
I'm struggling to think of a good nation-level government in One Piece that isn't a monarchy. Not that I have an issue with that, but it does make it hard to say that a variety of systems are being portrayed as viable.
@@Cook_A_Burra I don't think Shogunates and Dukedoms are considered monarchies
Punkhazard got destroyed because Aokiji (an ice power wielding man who believes in lazy, unaffective justice standing on the left side of the island, represented by blue) fought Akainu (a lava power wielding man who believes in oppressive, absolute justice standing on the right side of the island, represented by red).
“My pants ate your ice cream,” is an all timer quote. One of my favorite introductions.
Tells ya all ya need to know about someone
Also one thing I really found funny is that because we know inanimate objects can eat devil fruits and become sentient somehow, pants eating ice cream is technically possible and not just something you tell a child to keep them calm
I love the fact, that T-Bone, the Marine-swordsman in the Seatrain, thats one of the kindest Marines ever seen in One Piece, rips so much of his cloak to help his subordinates, that the Japanese signs for Justice turn into "positive" or "true" .
thats a very cute detail
I’d say Oda’s portrayal of Monarchy showcases his view of power: power is poorly used if it is not accountable. King Nefrititi holds meetings with his subjects, Vivi goes undercover to protect her kingdom, that one Ox guy literally lives with the people of Drum Island. The bad rulers have the power, but are not accountable to their people. That creates a system bound for abuse
Wasn't that ox called Duncan or Dalton or something similar?
@@Mortarion-xt9wpDalton 🫡🫡
Dalton was also democratically elected to be king.
Basically what The One Piece world needs is a magna carta
Dalton also specifically says he’s not worthy to rule and that he’s only trying to make amends for when he was following orders. Oda seems to believe the philosophy that the only people who deserve power are the ones who don’t seek it
Let’s also not forget Admiral Fujitora, who risked his position in the Marines simply for apologising to the people of Dressrosa and helping slaves escape Marijoa and who has a respect for Luffy regardless of his pirate status cause he thoughtlessly and candidly helps people for the sake of helping them.
k
Well yes. He is literally blind justice.
@@duncan4260such a clever use of that pun.
I think someone you forgot was Comodore Pudding Pudding and his band of marines. They were the ones who shot a cannon ball at Arlong and ultimately fell to them. I think Oda intentionally wrote them to highlight the fact that there is good marines but maybe that path could be the most dangerous compared to the one Nekomuki took of just being bribed
Yeah! That kept bugging me the whole video, like it doesn't change the argument but we definitely saw decent "normal" Marines before. And the villagers acted like this wasn't the first time they'd seen Arlongs crew sink a Marine ship trying to help do it's not like that Captain was a one off, Nezumi was just a rat bastard and probably covered it up.
She also forgot the marines who worked under Morgan and celebrated when Luffy took him down. They even sent off Luffy and Zoro with a salute.
@@hansdampf6916she covered them in a sense. They still followed orders, they still tormented and oppressed the people of the island. They were happy that Morgan was beaten, but they were still the ones who imprisoned Zoro and threw a child over a wall
Doesn’t matter if you love em or hate em, the admirals have the most diabolical and outlandish introductions in the story, kizaru flying in a cannon ball is still in the back of my brain to this day
Also the three admirals seated together at Marienford was just such a banger of a scene-setting
Chadmirals
He copied Foxy's whole flow.
From what I understood is bellemere was essentially dead to the Marines. As far as they were aware she died in that battle. Seems like she found her own dinghy and was able to sail back to her home Village without the military ever knowing of it
I think that this ties in to the situation that Garp & Sengoku are currently in: once you have rank (as in, anything above chore-boy) , there is no such thing as retirement; you know too much (compared to the average citizen), and you either stay in some way, or are labeled as a defector - equally as much of scum as pirates, and possibly more insane (saying things like "the world will flood & it's the government's fault" & such).
Honestly, with how it's framed, are we even sure that Oykot wasn't buster called, and that the story Bellemere told Nami & Nojiko wasn't the propaganda the World Government told the world?
I mean, we see with Egghead that the story the World Government is going with is that the Buster Call was called because the Evil Emperor of the Sea "StrawHat" Luffy kidnapped the noble Dr. Vegapunk, who they were TOTALLY not aware of the betrayal of at all and definitely TOTALLY weren't planning the assassination of him or anything. When we the readers know it's the exact opposite.
Goes to show this flaw within the Marines and the difference Coby can bring to them. In Marineford it was his direct attention that they could be saving people. Bellmere may not have been the only one to survive that battle but the Marines will never know as they never intend to check if anyone is still alive
Something you left out about smoker that I think is important is the marines he serves over in punk hazard. They are individuals who are considered terrible people by the marines and closer to peoples understanding of what a pirate is then even most pirates in one piece. But those marines that are shunned and looked down on by the marines end up sacrificing themselves to save the children in punk hazard.
I still think that the best moment in one piece when it comes to depicting the marines is the verbal confrontation between Akainu and Fujitora because the line “If we have to lie to preserve our credibility then we had none to begin with!” Was enough to have Akainu speechless for even a moment.
"Pirates are evil, the Marines are righteous. These terms have always changed throughout the course of history! Kids who have never seen peace, and kids who have never seen war, have different values! Those who stand at the top determine what's wrong and what's right! This very place is neutral ground. 'Justice will prevail!' you say?! Well, of course it will!
Whoever wins the war, *becomes justice!* "
- Don Quixote Doflamingo
Babe wake up melonteee is back from her holiday
We are eating good tonight
FİNALLY
@@The_Charlotte_Katakuriľ
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A couple of things I think are worth mentioning here:
1) After Marineford, Garp is shown going to Windmill Village and hang the "This island is under Marine protection" banner, so there's evidence that the marines actually did move to protect islands after Whitebeard's death.
2) Again after Marineford, most of the reactions from the world are of common people cheering for the Marines, so saying that the average person in OP fears the Marines feels disingenuous to me. (Tonjit's gag with Luffy and Aokiji also drives that home for me.)
3) Slavery is still very much illegal, and most of the clientele afaik is shown to be underworld criminals. The Celestial Dragons are just considered above it (which is 100% a fair criticism of the marines), but for everyone else, owning slaves is still illegal.
4) Maybe I missed something or just misunderstood, but SWORD wasn't started under Akainu and by design isn't really under his jurisdiction. The chief in command of Sword is X Drake, a character shown to not care much about taking sides between Pirates or Marines and usually just trying to do good.
Also, I'm personally still holding on on judging Garp for the God Valley incident is because it feels like there's still missing information about it. If that's not the case, then he's 100% worthy of judgement.
P.S. Now I need a video solely about Tashigi. She's hands down the best Marine ethics wise and I'm tired of pretending otherwise.
in egghead it was reveal that the Gorosei did order Akarinu to shot down the evaluate ship, even tho Akarinu has no issues with it, still worth pointing out
I agree with everything you said. I usually agree wholeheartedly with Melon but she isn't looking at this as impartially as she should; granted she admit she is biased.
I strongly agree that saying the average person fears Marines IS disingenuous because it simply isn't true. Majority of them do not. This is shown time and time again we are shown how people around the world react to news; Marines are praised and pirates' downfalls are celebrated. While this is because they don't know the true nature of Marines (that they serve the world government, not the people), it is still false to claim the average person in OP fears Marines (heck majority of the examples we have are only near the East Blue).
@@randyshein1453 This yeah. Though, this is mostly because of how well the WG dies it's propoganda and sweeping it's unscrupulous acts under the rug.
I think the rule is generally the closer you are to the Red Line/Mariejoa, the more likely you are to be scared of the Marines/WG since the CDs aren't exactly subtle about how they treat people. Which is rather ironic that getting closer to the seat of power of the WG also means you'll find more people afraid of the CDs and of the WG by proxy.
1) not strong evidence, considering that the Windmill village is of personal importance to Garp and that he constantly does his own thing. And we saw some other places being attacked by pirates. And Whitebeard’s hometown was protected by Marco, not marines. They attacked it.
Also, Whitebeard’s territories are mostly outside the World Government’s jurisdiction, and we know it doesn’t extend protection towards such territories.
3) that’s just not true. We clearly saw the slave auction where people (not celestial dragons) bought slaves. Human criminals were sold as slaves, while other races didn’t even have that protection, and it was totally ok to capture and sell them.
About the first one: I think its safe to say thats more out of a personal standpoint. Garp is purposefully acting like a pirate here because he has personal connections to it and he himself would show up if anything happened. Its not part of the system.
If it would, you would think the most vulnerable point for pirates to attacl, Fishman island would stand under protection. Especially given they are part of the reverie.
Most islands Whitebeard protected were those not falling under the immediate protection of the marines anyway and we can see that with whitebeards hometown or with wano, the maines themself attacked these places, not trying to protect them after killing their guardian
With the word 'Justice' on their coats it does give the imagery of them always having their back turned to the concept of justice, which is a cool detail as well
I agree with most but you skewed Garp’s answer a little bit. Garp isn’t like “abandon all old people because they’re worthless” but he makes a point.
When Garp had asked Koby who he should save between himself, a Baby and an old man when there are only two spots on a boat, Koby says to save them. Garp says he’s wrong because he and that baby have way more life to live and the potential of youth is limitless.
Garp asks why he wanted to join the marines and then says “To safe guard the future, right?” So how could he do that if he were to give his life for an old guy who would’ve died sooner than him more than likely?
I think the problem comes with 'why' should this be a lesson in the first place. Me personally I think the lesson of 'some people are inherently more valuable to protect than others' isn't a good one, but that's just me.
Garp definitely follows that one Greek proverb, the "society grows great when old men plant trees whose shade they shall never sit in."
@@shawnshock8651because it is the lesson that you won't be able to save everyone and some sacrifices have to be made and some hard decisions have to be decided. It is the Practical look at reality, it's the same as understanding that yes you are throwing men into the meat grinder but you have to in order to distract the enemy long enough for the other division to flank them to win the battle
@@shawnshock8651 Because Garp sees himself as old, and eventually, expendable. It is shown in that specific moment to drive home the point that, after trusting the future of the Marines to a new generation, Garp will sacrifice himself without regrets
@@shawnshock8651 The reason why Garp had to teach it is because of who he is.
He is seen as a hero a important figure that many people would die for all those young marines who grew up idolizing and would risk life and limb for him but to Garp himself he is just an old man not long from the grave.
So he made sure his students knew if there ever came a time to choose between him and themselves they knew what to do.
Fun fact about Belmer's character : her name is a play on words in french. "Belle mère" means step mother which she obviously is to Nami as not her biological mother, also "Belle mer" would mean "beautiful sea", thematically linking her to Nami's name meaning wave
I believe you misunderstood Garp's point. He wasn't saying elderly weren't worth saving. He was saying that the youth are much more important, that's all.
He was saying that they should prioritize saving life, not people. Sacrificing the remaining lives of young people to rescue an old person doesn’t accomplish that
@@klingofgames1560 Garp saying how young Marines lives shouldn't be disposable, and should have their life ahead of them is the exact opposite of Akainu where he would kill the Marine despite making the old mans sacrifice meaningless.
To me, the marines were always a commentary on system and individuals. Because we start the series seeing the how there are terrible individuals in the marines, but dig a little more and you see that systemically it is flawed as good marines a made incapable of doing the good they joined the marines for (see Smoker at the end of Alabasta and Garp at Marineford) while providing protection for those who do wrong. BUT dig a little MORE deeply, and you see that it does still go back to the work of individuals, as systems don’t just manifest out of the ether.
This is what always made the world of OP so good - the very natural, progressive domino effect of people, places and events influencing other people, places and events.
i have a hard crush for any boy with a strong sense of justice trying his best. the Coby fandom might be small but we love him
he is just a good small bean 😭
Aye, I'm a Coby fan
I know he's a good person, but he's still complicit in an abusive system.
@@Ballin_and_I_cant_get_upI’m confident he’ll be essential to the reform of that system by the end of
@@Gloomdrake
I hope so man
I really liked the fact that you hughlighted the fear lots of civilians had around marines in general with the first smoker interaction.
Thank you so much!!! I really appreciate the support, and the civilian's fear really stuck out to me when we first met Smoker. It's one of the reasons I really like the twist of his introduction 🥹
I cant believe Mel went 40 whole minutes without mentioning Fujitora once 😞
fujitora isn't a marine in the same sense as most. He was drafted into the marines, and has pretty much only acted in ways to undermine their authoritarian actions.
@@hippocalypse9152 , Fujitora also wouldn't have been drafted into the Marines if Akoiji was the Fleet Admiral instead of Akainu.
@@RoronoaZoro-ur6hrironic, isn't it?
@@AlexT7916 , yup it's extremely ironic.
And called T Bone just a marine.
I feel like something often missed about Smoker's character at least from what I picked up on, is Smoker seems to want to act as a 'filter' for what he deems worthy pirates. His entire goal in Lougetown seemed to be any pirates that couldn't best him don't deserve to enter the grand line. Considering that Smoker was present at Roger's execution I think he holds a weird sense of admiration for him. I think his 'marine justice is bullshit' stance is because he saw no justice in Roger's death.
And his chase on Luffy is simply his pride and not an actual disdain for pirates, because Luffy never actually beat him to prove he was worthy in Smoker's eyes.
That is my view on the character at least.
I think he has always been aware of the problems of 'us vs them' but he wants pirates to prove themselves to him. And the straw hats have done so.
Vegapunks message also plays into this, as he refuses to guess on who was good and who evil in the conflict of over 800 years ago.
At no point does Garp say old people are expendable. His point of view is that if one is forced to make a choice, there is no point in being idealic , save the future. That doesn't equate to the person you didn't save having little value.
But if anything thats idealistic (in a way), certainly more than it is the opposite.
There's nothing necessarily more pragmatic about saving younger people.
16:55 HE EVEN PLAYS IT AS “SORRY MY PANTS ATE YOUR ICE CREAM” INSTEAD OF “SORRY I WAS IN YOUR WAY” HE IS THE ONLY MARINE I LIKE
I WAS ABOUT TO SAY THAT😭😭
Smoker's the goat FR😭🙏
Something I always liked but it probably wasn't intentional is that Whitebeard's jacket looks almost exactly like the Admirals' jackets, only his doesn't have the Justice kanjj on the back, and despite that Whitebeard managed to have a better vision of justice than Akainu, who literally wears it on his back
What I and one of my friends discussed once was how, with the progress of the story, each of the major individual of the marines force is striped of his ideal just because they choose or force to follow the government justice.
Kuzan, Aokiji for someone, is a believer of doing the right thing, but after Ohara can't recall the strength to do anything at all.
Borsalino Kizaru is a fan of "follow the order", nothing was good or bad if he just do what someone else, maybe someone more capable was doing the thinking... but after Egghead is broken because he wasn't able to rebel the order given.
Sakatsuki, Akainu, was all about do the everything possible for "THE JUSTICE". But after he follows the path of the power he was striped of each freedom and can't do anything at all... Even after becoming the highest possible position of the world.
Each of this examples of great man try in some ways to change or improve the world or the system but in the end each one, in one way or in another, they were broken and bend to sustain and maintain the same sistem they try to reform. Tragic...
(Sorry for my bad English)
First of all, your english is pretty good so keep working at it and hopefully you will realize that too. I never thought about the values of the admirals being striped away like that but it makes sense with the examples you provided. Who knows if this will happen to any other marines.
PEEEEEAK
This is my new favorite comment.
When I was in the army there was a rule that we were specifically taught. A lot of rules can be disregarded under threat, but that was the one rule that my commander made it as clear as possible that it had to be followed- When you are given a command, no matter the type of command, that makes you question your moral integrity, do not hesitate to disobey it and throw it further up the ladder. In my country's military it's called the 'Conscience Command'. The fact that the marines, which are supposed to be a military force that enforce the laws of the world government, don't have that type of protocol, struck me as odd from the moment I began watching/reading OP.
The point about Sengoku and the Cafeteria is brilliant. They’re so preoccupied with “T-Bone was a good person”, “That money is coming from pirates” and “Buggy is such a nefarious genius”, etc all the while going “I know they were poor and hungry but that’s not an excuse”. I find Tsuru and Sengoku fascinating but I definitely don’t click with their morality.
sengoku's such a weirdly layered guy. basically sacrificing an island's worth of marines to kill ace, then going on to have an earnest heart-to-heart with law about corazon and not lifting a finger to apprehend him
@@Tyrannodrone475 being a fleet admiral ain't easy lol
Even Akainu with his simplistic idea of justice can't keep true to his ideals. A man with any amount of morality will suffer as a fleet admiral.
@@spandanganguli6903 Which is why Sengoku is a second Garp now.
@@Tyrannodrone475The World Government forced the Navy to kill Ace , they wanted him dead but they didn't kill him because they didn't want the smooe with Whitebeard.Sengoku has many things to manage as a Fleet Admiral + all the lives of innocent soldiers that leave their homes voluntarily to protect countries and islands from pirate raids.
Oda will do him a backstory as he is too much of a figure not to look upon his past and i guarantee we will definitely see Sengoju has always been the best chief the Marines ever had under whose leadership most islands became successfully immune to pirate raids as to raid these islands it means you have no problem picking a fight with the Navy.
And no he didn't sacrifice anybody.Like we said on the beginning.As the Whitebeards were proud to die rescuing Ace , the Marimes were proud to die defending their fort.Well the latter didn't do a bad job , did they?
35:00 the whole scene is more a grey area again when you realize the bounty was of T-bone while not the strongest marine was way stronger than the average man no way he was captured by and killed by a old man he more than likely gave himself up so the people could be fed with his bounty money
39:40 its also why when Luffy is obviously saving fishman island he doesnt say he's good.
He instead tells them to DECIDE FOR THEMSELVES
Thinking of the Marines two things come to mind and I don't know which one of em i luv more:
1st) Doffy epic speech at Marineford: "Pirates are evil? The Marine is justice?"
2) Punk Hazard, where Sanji and Smoyan's Marine crew team up and Tashigi keeps saying to the crew: "stop calling him pirate-buddy" (kaizuku aniki) 😂❤ ..and after the banquet the Marine crew has a mental breakdown while trying to process that they like the Strawhats. 😂🎉✨
My favorite part of the smoker ice cream scene that was subtle he apologized to the girl I feel like even most good marines would have(even politely and with good intentions) lectured the girl telling her to be more careful etc smoker realized he was in the wrong gave her some money and went about his day
Honeeeeeey wake up, MelonTeee dropped another literary analysis
Yes dear......
@@Cobaltmaster😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅 31:10 31:14 😅😅😅😅😅
Ain no goddamn way
@@matheusprata4618 Is like we are a group of locust going from field to field omnoming all the One Piece Content we can get our grubby hands on
@@matheusprata4618 You may also find me on a Jay D Legend kidd video as a reply to a comment lol
Cant Wait to see the Garp Video, we are finally seeing him Fighting for Real and his Struggles are soo freaking Hard to watch.
Literally about to happen in the anime.
Call me crazy, but I thought Garp's point was more "If you're forced to choose who lives and who dies, what do you do?", and less "Old people are disposable".
i think it was more about preserving the future generations than clinging onto the the past gen
"The kind of evil that doesn't realize that it's evil, is the worst kind of evil there is." - Weather Report, from JoJo's Bizarre Adventures: Stone Ocean
"What do you want for dinner"
Melontee: J U S T I C E
I think the only thing missing from this analysis is identifying what pirates stand for. Because although the meaning of a pirate can mean almost anything to an individual, the story has made it pretty clear that being a pirate is synonymous with freedom. What we see from pirates is that they are the outcasts who work outside of laws and convention to do whatever they want. They work on the open seas so that they can be free.
However, the same way that marines pursue justice and are corrupted into controlling others, some pirates pursue freedom and remove the freedoms of others when they choose to do whatever they want without considering the needs of others (killing, robbing, etc).
Only by getting characters who absolutely stand for what they believe in, can we get characters like Luffy (freedom for not just himself) and Koby (justice that’s not bought by the world government). I think pirates and marines are definitely parallels in this sense and serve this similar function in the story
Is it just "some pirates" who act like criminals willing to hurt the innocent or is more like the norm? Do pirates in OP live by a moral code? Generally speaking? Or is it rather that beeing free also means free of morality?
@@hansdampf6916There are a great deal of pirates who harm others for their own gain (Doflamingo, Kaido, Big Mom, Caesar Clown, Buggy and Alvida at the beginning of the series, and all their associated crews and lesser bad guys). In fact, it’s the reason so many people are afraid of your average pirate and the reason they have garnered the reputation they have over the years.
However, all pirates pursue freedom of convention regardless of morality. They all follow their own moral codes and guidelines. Some choose to have morals while others don’t.
For example, Roger, Whitebeard, Odin, and the Strawhats for sure have morals and values. They are good people at heart.
However, Doflamingo, Kaido, Big Mom, and Caesar Clown (to our general conventions) are absolutely abhorrently evil. However, even Kaido and Big Mom have values and codes they view as ethical even if they are amoral or alien to us. Kaido believes in survival of the fittest and Big Mom believes in protecting her family (even if her methods of doing so are twisted).
They are not exactly free of morals because they themselves create their own. In fact, Doflamingo has a line that says it best: “Whoever wins the war becomes justice.” Whoever comes out on top as the most powerful decides right from wrong. By extension, the most powerful is usually the most free.
The pirates are not free of morals just because they pursue freedom. However, they often pursue power to either run amok doing whatever they want or to enforce their view of the world over that of others.
In fact, it’s another reason why pirates contrast marines so well. Justice is blind and has no opinion, which is oftentimes why characters who represent justice are bought out by the world government or other forces. Justice is not meant to impart its will on you because it’s supposed to be fair, but because it has no original view of the world it is incredibly easy to be shaped by others, which compromises its ability to be impartial.
The pirates on the other hand love to impart their view on the world for better or for worse. In their pursuit of doing what they believe in, they change lives, claim territory, and bring others to their cause. You can’t really change who they are through a system like the marines, and they leave lasting impressions and stories to be told because their convictions are so strong and drastically different from each other
I think you're being a bit uncharitable with Garps teachings, he was saying that if someone has to be unavoidably sacrificed, it should be the old man, not that elderly never have to be saved. And(this is not my observation, but it's SO GOOD) he's being contrasted by Saturn and by proxy, the other Elders who are more ancient than anyone and would NEVER put someone before themselves, no matter the situation.
On Fullaled Garp had hold back Kuzan and the other strong BB pirates, it was a thing SOMEONE had to do if anyone were to escape, Garp made the executive decision that it was to be him.
Egghead is slightly different, it's not about who stays behind, but everybody doing, everything they can to save as many as possible.
After the reveal of the Iron Giants name being Emeth, with all it's implications of Jewish myth, I joked to a friend that OP is turning into Shin Megami Tensei now. Now watching this made me realize how I might have been closer to the truth than I thought. Not in terms of catching demons of course but rather how its morality system works. SMT's morality doesn't work like Good vs Evil but rather Law Vs Chaos, not making any judgement on either one being better but rather presenting good and bad aspects to both these philosophies. In theory at least. Law/Marines would represent order and peace but also tyranny and loss of freedom and individuality, Chaos/Pirates represent Freedom and conflict with individuality as a high virtue but also a kill of be killed attitude.
this
Dang Splatoon 3 should’ve had a pirate theme then
I still think Garp is right to prioritize the young over the old in situations where you have to save someone. The old have grown and lived their lives and time and time again I see that it's the old and in power that try their hardest to cling to said power. You can try saving everyone, but try to save the youth as they have to live in a world the old created.
I don’t think Garp was actually saying that the elderly was expendable, but rather it is more important to save the youth even at the cost of old people
I just saw someone comment connecting it to garp himself
As we all know, garp himself is already old. But he's still considered the hero of marines, the probable reason why people join the marines. He's trying to say that if there comes a moment where the younger marines are in danger, they should save themselves instead of sacrificing their lives for him, an old man who's already near deaths door
I'm thinking of my OC crew, whose story is that they were basically just island hoppers, carrying cargo and passengers, and then a Celestial Newt decided he wanted their captain for a bride (when the whole reason she set out to sea was to find her True Lady Love), so her crew fought back and all of them got bounties from it.
Now all i need is a Kuma/Bonney and Dragon video from MelonTeee
corazon is one interesting marine to me bc as someone who was a previous world noble and who knew first hand how messed up the system is ,he still joined the marines the very system that he knew how terrible it is and he refused to be a pirate and hid this info from law that he was a marine bc he understood the evil things that the marines did to law
i think the pirate system is to extreme and a dog eat dog world where the normal regular citizen will not survive so i think most marines just wanna protect the weak not to defend the world government (like smoker)
this makes luffy feel like a breath of fresh air since he doesnt follow the pirate way of destroying the weak and has alot of pirate friends and doesnt follow the marines and he does more good than them and doesnt ask for money the way the marines do in order to receive their protection
I don't get how anyone can say "I wholesale like pirates in One Piece and wholesale dislike marines". Even if we disregard Coby, Smoker, Tashigi, Garp, Aokiji and probaby other named marines that are (very) decent people that I forgot to mention, we know that all the unnamed marines are mostly decent people too, just like people in general. Just think back to the first villain, Captain Morgan, and how the marines who served (suffered) under him celebrated when Luffy took him out. And while we know a lot of decent named pirates in One Piece, are they really representative of pirates in One piece in general? I would even argue that the average marine is much more likely to be a decent person than the average pirate. But pirates are "cooler", sure. 😄
Smoker was always my favourite marine. But it wasn't until recently when I re-read One Piece from start to current, that I began to see what I love most about him. He's reminds me of Sam Vimes from Discworld in that he's an anti-authority Authority figure. Someone who only believes in what he witness for himself rather than follow everyone's prejudices.
Dud you completely forgotten about Tbone😭
My man was the embodiment of altruism! How do you think that old guy got a marine bounty???
That talk about heroism was spot on tho👌
I say it as a fan of your videos, but I feel like this video was too much superficial talk and repeating of concepts and it could have done with a few more in-detail analysis of important singular scenes and character arcs, such as (current) Coby's, Tashigi's, or Corazon's whole undercover arc. Tashigi has a line in Alabasta that is literally "f*ck Justice and f*ck Marine Headquarters" that I would have liked to see here, or how she's literally famous among the citizens for helping people (see the beginning of ch. 673). Cora-san's belief in his undercover work as a Marine going against his own brother and his relationship with Sengoku might have been worth a mention.
I also don't know where you got that SWORD answers to Sakazuki from, because that's not true. We still don't know who their leader is, if it's Drake, or if there even is someone higher up.
My favorite way to describe one piece is “imagine an dystopian nightmare of a society, but you travel through it from the perspective of loony toon’s Saturday cartoon angle” 😂
Seriously, it’s probably the thing I love the most in op 😅
I absolutely agree, tho i prefer the bit more consensed version of "One Piece is a dystopia with a clown mask"
Akainu stans scare me
I drew the line at lava daddy
You mean fascists
@@PSI441literally
Wait…..those exist
@PSI441 people just call fascist to whatever nowadays uh? Lol
Fascism requires nationalism, which the marines are not, lol
Are they authoritarian? Yes
Are they fascist? No
Akainu got the over protective muscular dad who owns a chevrolet truck vibe
I think there needs to be some separation between the everyday marine and the higher ranked ones making decisions. For 99% of marines they are normal people going to work providing for their families etc and don't really have a way to change the system. The high ranked marines to me are depicted similarly to kings. Not an outright problem but depends on the individual. If u have a corrupt one it corrupts all the way down.
Well, as if I couldn’t sleep already, now I have to watch this entire behemoth and think about it for another hour lol
Melonteee gotta say youre my most favoutire ONE Piece youtuber as you dont look at the story just on a mechanical lvl or with a aluminum hat but rather on a emotional lvl
you are not ready for HIM
I wish you brought up Fujitora. Hes the only marine ive seen actually admire a pirate, aside from Koby. We havent had much about Fujitora since Dress, but his remark at the end about how he regrets blinding himself cause he wishes he could see Luffy's face had me bawling for an hour when i first saw it 😭😭😭😭😭
You mark my words, Oda is going to make Akainu’s backstory the most heartbreaking and tragic flashback of all time. Like im fully ready for him to have a backstory like Kuma’s…. Except with NO HOPE in it at all. Akainu’s belief in justice can only come from such a place where he believes the alternative is so much worse
Can't wait to watch your East Blue video!
Thank you so much for the support! Sorry for responding so late but I hope the east blue video was worth the wait!
Thinking SWORD may turn out to be a threat to the Strawhats, and not an anti-authoritarian group is such a wild take
we call it justice because it's just us.
I get it!
It could be argued that the marines having the word "Justice" on their back is not what they believe themselves to be, but what many aspire to be or achieve through their service. The marines are not a monolith and the story very much skews the perception of the reader to view them in a certain light.
The protagonists are pirates, the natural enemy of pirates are marines. We constantly see bad examples of the marines because Oda wants us to root for the Straw Hats at all times so anyone they come into conflict with must look bad by comparison. The only time this framing is subverted is ehen Oda wants the opposing side to become future allies. The Straw Hats never do anything particularly heinous or unforgivable in the readers eyes, so we are never given a chance to see the marines be justified in their actions or viewpoint.
And yes, while pirates can be anything and they don't try to present themselves as heroes or saviors, the horrendous actions that I dare say most pirate crew commit should not be overlooked. Many people in many towns, islands etc generally fear pirates just as much as they do the marines or celestial dragons.
I guarantee that if a spin off of Piece ever happened that focused on a group of marines, opinions would change because we would see things from an insider perspective.
I disagree in the marines only ever being shown in a good light if they might become future allies.
Namis hometown had marineships try to free it, but failed. We never saw them again but thy tried.
T-Bone was an enemy of zoro in the sea train but he was constantly shown as a good person until he died.
Yes its easier for us to see the bad of the marines too but I think thats the point. For a majority of the population they are presented in a completely good light and when that veil lifts for the normal person its already too late. (Innocent citizens of Flevance and Ohara, slaves captured like animals)
A Pirate however can see the whole ugly truth and while yes their actions shouldnt be overlooked either the main difference is that each pirate captain can decide on their own what they do.
If there were a marine spinn-off, I wonder if it would still include things like "The MC is suddenly ordered to retrieve escaped slaves" or "Attack your own base in a buster call despite there still being soldiers of your own present on the island"
@@corvus6381Flevance was utterly destroyed by Government agents the Marines never took part in its holocaust.What the Government hates is that the Marines aren't entirely forced to obey it since they have their own code and sorry it may hurt a lot of oirate fellas but most of the islands in the One Piece world are safe because of the Marines not anyone else that's why you see so many people liking them , just the Marines , not the World Government.
@@lorddarkrai5753 There has never once been shown an instance where the marines could choose not to obey the WG. Garp coming closest but even he has to stay a vice admiral to not become an admiral which are literally called "the celestials lapdogs" like come on dude.
I never said they arent overall liked but they sure as hell werent always shown in a positive light. The countries who are almost too poor to afford the tax to stay part of the WG were shown over and over how afraid they were to reach that state of not being able to pay anymore. Marines literally raiding sphinx and the people of lulusia being more deperate about their tax money getting stolen than their own lifes.
And if you really think those werent marine troops at flevance you are simply delusional sorry. Why do you think Law has such a great hate for the marines? Do you really think they sent Cp members for that dirty work? Nah the lesser muscle work like that is done by marine ships just like the re-capturing of the escaped fishman slaves
@@corvus6381 Every Marine is wearing a cape with Justice.They also have the same uniform and a hat that spells Marine.They also have their distonctive Marine shipals and vessels.Not a single one of these were shown during the Flevance holocaust.Also there are many kinds of Hoverent agents not just the Cipher Pols.Also Cipher Pols are comprised of several layers , teams and agents not just the teams the Straw Hats took down.The Navy is more important in One Piece than you think.
And sorry but no civillian would ever believe in some legend about the rebirth of a God tgat would save them during a pirate raid while Marine help is one Transponder Snail call away.
As for the Koala incident Kizaru's intervention was all it took that allowed the Sun Pirates to keep their lives so there you have it another example.
Without a force like the Navy pirates reign supreme and that's the worst news about the world.
Also if the Government doesn't command it , the Navy can do whatever it wants.And what do you got?Most of the islands of One Piece being safe.
There is that tiny problem with the Holy Tribute tax indeed but that's what Oda wants to show , that only if they work together can the problem be solved.
@@lorddarkrai5753 the justice capes are a thing for vice admirals and above. Everyone else is not allowed to wear them
Literally when did I talk about nika?
And yeah wow... Kizarus "intervention" aka the one where they only let koala go home for selling out fisher tiger? And only getting arlong back through jimbei becoming a warlors. So very merciful
I lowkey have the feling I write with akainu right now XDD
This is my first MelonTeee video since I subscribed and I need to thank you! I'd almost given up on the manga because of watching nothing but negative video about the series. Your video reminded me why I love this manga and that there was more that I missed! So thank you for your amazing videos!!!
I love seeing someone who looks like so much like Princess Bubblegum talk about authoritarian regimes
I like it when melon says "oh boi"
Sorry, I really enjoy your videos, but I couldn't finish this one. I am not a Marine fan (just a Coby fan, though I really-really like Garp, Drake, Tashigi and Fujitora), but the main reason pirates-as-a-whole are likable is because we are being guided by the Strawhats. I don't know how canonical Film Red is, but the first scene, with ordinary people saying what they've suffered under many of them, shocked me. Anyway, here's waiting for that Garp video.
Exactly, the Marines we interact with may be bastards a lot of the time but the ones protecting people from marauding pirates are the ones people support.
Awesome critical review on the Marines. I'm always so proud to be your follower.
Thank you so much for the support! I hope I can keep providing good content 😭🫶
A video
Hold on, what? SWORD isn't run by Akainu... SWORD is a bunch of Marines who have "effectively resigned"
we don't really know that afaik, it's never been stated what the actual purpose of SWORD is and whose idea it was and what the motivation behind its creation was
Akainu is theorized to be a member or the leader of sword because he must know, he is the fleet admiral after all and because of a weird tattoo he has on his right shoulder of a sword that doesnt seem to be in the style of his other yakuza tattoos
You would think Akainu would approve of Marines who are fully committed to taking down Yonko
That could be an "illegitimate" task force, one the Marines can publicly throw their hands up saying "not our doing!" whilst said task force still works for them?
I was always under the impression that Sengoku created it, and Rosenante was either one of its first members, or Sengoku did it after Doffy killed him. I have a hard time believing that Sakazuki is a part of it. The one most likely to have been a part of it was Kuzan. I’m basing that belief on the fact that Sengoku wanted him to succeed him, and not Sakazuki.
At 34:44 I feel like that moment goes a bit deeper than that, since while Sengoku is indeed complaining in a cafeteria stuffing his face about people hunting down marines for their bounties because they're starving, it's not any marine that got killed but T. Bone, one of the marines that have been explicitely shown to care very much about people and being in the same type of good intended marines as Koby. I don't think Koby is an anti-marine, there's plenty of them out there but this particular scene shows that while this kind of marines are on the field, trying to help and now getting killed for it, the complacent enforcers of the establishment are on the stuffing their face and complaining about how hard it all is.
i love love love the video, you make great points and notice things i havent and im always happy to widen my perspective :D
i just have one comment tho: the marine system isnt flawed, it simply works as intended - designed by the world government, aka the celestial dragons, to groom people into being their personal guard/attack dogs; they just present it in the "nice" packaging of justice to make it more appealing to the common person
The point about SWORD having not done anything yet to help victims of piracy was brilliant. I honestly hadnt thought about it because i was so busy loving the Coby hype.
I love your videos so much, the way that u speak makes me tear up almost every time, I really don't know how but every single video that I see of yours make me get emotional in some way. Keep doing this amazing job. You're definitely one great RUclipsr.
Watching the show it feels like pirates like Luffy are rare to non existent. Everyone fears pirates as bloodthirsty cutthroats. But then you have Shanks or Whitebeard who you wouldn’t believe to be one considering how nice he is, and he’s an emperor of the sea. So you don’t need to be as ruthless and cruel as pirates like Big Mom or Kaido. Even the pirate king himself Roger wasn’t an evil man, he was like a big kid looking for adventure. I feel like when new people meet luffy and learn he’s a pirate are shocked cuz of how he looks and acts. But because he’s a pirate he’s still a criminal. He’s not out to take over towns and burn them, he just wants to explore new places and find the one piece. Even though he is reckless and causes collateral damage with his power we see he’s not a bad guy. But to the marines, he’s a pirate so he’s considered just as bad as guys that are cutthroats.
I just find it interesting how luffy seems to be different from what people see as a pirate and he and his crew while pirates, have done a lot of good for people, good that the government failed to do. Which is why along with them being criminals and Luffy in possession of the gum gum fruit, the straw hats have been doing good the marines should have done. I mean fujitora acknowledged they were at fault for letting doflamingo go wild and Luffy and his crew saved dressrossa. The straw hats saved the kids that were being tested on in punk hazard because a double agent marine covered it up. Crocodile almost got away with taking over alabasta until Luffy and his crew stopped him. Smoker hated being given credit for that, cuz he knew he didn’t deserve it.
It’s just funny how the marines look at Luffy like he’s a beast, then you have this goofy rubber man bouncing off their cannon balls cuz he just wants to keep exploring the sea.
As a marine i would get such whiplash from seeing emperor of the sea luffy bouncing around laughing and bending, yeah :)
Also while there are certainly a lot of terrible pirates, the idea that all pirates are blood thirsty lunatics is one the world government perpetuates, enforces and probably started. After all they do control the news, at least to a certain extent. And we have no shortage of "good" pirates, brooks' crew, zeff, bonney, the old man descendent of nolan was one i think, etc., i think the surprise at luffy being so different than the stereotypical pirate is something we share with the average citizen of the world and that feels deliberate to me idk
Being a marine stan doesnt mean not knowing the navy is trash
The marines are just cool ass villains, that get some heroes and anti heroes in their ranks
I've finished the part of Smoker as an excemption of the marines and one thing came to my mind when you point out numerous times that he hated the structure of the organization: He knew Dragon and respected him in Loguetown. Moreover, it is confirmed that Dragon was an ex-marine, as Aokiji is, that gives the chance that they met on service and hated together the Marine's predominant sense of justice. It gives more depth to the carachter as it gives a prelodious to how he will ended up acting in Alabasta. Oh man, I love Smoker
One of my fav videos.
Thank you so much! I'll do my best to keep creating similar content!
I think the only thing missing in this video is the focus on the heavenly tribute and how it saps wealth from unaffiliated countries. This in turn excludes groups from the Marine’s protection and forces Pirates to having to protect these territories. I feel that the marines likely didnt protect the Whitebeard territories because they did not pay the heavenly tribute. Its interesting how Whitebeard is a counter to the tribute where he often sends any personal treasure he makes to his own home town.
Exactly, one thing missing from her analysis is the fact that the "State" aka the Marines, are literally organized in a way to protect the interests of the ruling class, ALWAYS.
If nations aren't paying tribute to the ruling class, then they're not contributing to the riches of the elite and are thus, simply an expense to protect. (If something isn't PROFITABLE, then it's not pursued, because the Owners don't benefit from its exploitation.)
The State as it exists, can only exist in such an organized fashion insofar as this organization benefits the ruling class.
That's why the Marines can NEVER be moral even if it's filled with all the Koby's in the world, due to the fact that the Organizational goal is to protect the status quo which upholds the ruling apparatus which the Celestial Dragons enjoy. It needs fundamental restructuring by the common men of the one piece world.
Without their authority collectively upheld over the institution of the Military, the Marines will always act against the interests of the common people for the sake of "justice." SWORD is also another form this criticism has taken.
I wouldn't say that's the reason why. Remember, Whitebeard's terrirory was specifically ONLY in the New World (if you exclude Fishman Island, which is....pretty close, and a bit of a special case regardless). The Marines immediately after WB's death were occupied dealing with increased pirate activity the WORLD over, in all of the Blues and Paradise. We see this straight after the war. They also temrpaorily had reduced numbers (at least of their stronger members) due to losses at Marineford. This wasn't resolved until after the Draft.
Protecting WB's territory would have required them to immediately rush to expand into the New World, take down the WB Pirate Remnants, and clash with the BB Pirates (who were aiming to take over that territory for themselves) and the other Yonko who likely would have made a move on it, along with random opportunistic pirates like Brownbeard. It was probably possible, but would have required a major military deployment end by the Admirals, rather than using those troops to secure what they already had.
It likely just wasn't practical immediately following the war, and later on the pirates were firmly entrenched in that territory again, meaning they would need a full scale war to remove them.
I'm sure the inability to pay the Tribute was a factor, but I would honestly believe the practicality of conquering and holding onto that section of the New World was more of an issue.
2:24 "I cannot imagine doing everything I'm told to do unless it's a beautiful woman telling me to do something" so real
Very relatable
My thougts on the marines and how they are depicted are too complex and wide to cover in a RUclips comment, but I will say a few things.
The marines are a neseccity in the world despite being worth heavy criticism. I think the way people think of them, see them, and remember them is a bit biased against them. That is to be expected of any organized protective group, however. Especially when put against the pirates who represent freedom. This goes back to the classic idea that freedom and safety are opposite each other.
It's also easy to look at pirates and like them because they are often depicted separate from their heinous actions. Think of how much distaste people have for someone like Absalom, and then think about how many atrocities they are willing to disregard Crocodile having done because he's a suave MF. There is more to it but I don't have time to dive deeper.
This is a pirate story, it's also supposed to be mostly fun and adventurous, of course it's easier to see the more fun and good parts of pirates, and to see the marines mostly as bad, especially since they have a vast amount of examples to pull from and the fact that the wold is literally run by demonic entities and the marines fall under them in the hirearchy.
In the end I always think that Oda is really trying to show that there are no fully simple and clear answers to these questions. It's the individuals in the systems, it's the actions of the individuals, and even then it's the contexts of thise actions that all shape how good or bad something is.
Very well said. It's easy to hate on the marines and root for the pirates. But if you're a citizen in the One Piece world and one of the two is to dominate the world you better hope it's the marines. No one in their right mind would wish to live under the wims of a warlord, who answers to no one and who could be usurped by a bigger and badder warlord the next day. Yes if that warlord is Whitebeard, Shanks or Luffy you lucked out. But they are not the norm, plus we've seen with Whitebeard that such a beneficial patronage can also end very abruptly.
It’s nice to see that you’re becoming more comfortable being on camera, it’s really inspiring to see you grow in confidence in this way! I really enjoy your videos and it’s nice to see you enjoying making them too.
I am also especially interested in the direction SWORD will go in in the future. Now that Drake is back with them after Wano, and is fully aware that the World Government were having Cipher Pol trade weapons with Kaido, and probably get seastone to coat Marine ships from Kaido's factories too, and SWORD have heard Vegapunk's broadcast, their belief in the Marines may be greatly shaken going forward. Koby having been willing to team up with Perona, a pirate, to escape from Blackbeard's island is something I'm keeping in mind too.
I think Drake will share what he found out with the only Marines he can trust besides his unit: Sangoku (his mentor according to the website), Smoker and Fujitora.
I ain’t even gonna cap I get 95% of my understanding of OP stuff from you. You’re funny as fuck.
2:34 me when Smoker exists
Every time I watch you videos I fall asleep. Your voice is so soft and subtle. #1 One Piece analysis RUclipsr.
1:35 hello 👋
Melontee: Pirates are cooler
Aokiji: No they're not.
This has to be one of the heaviest analyses you’ve done so far, and I honestly think that being able to see your face really lent the necessary weight to what you were articulating. Fantastic work
thank you for posting, thank you for existing. you make me love one piece more, you put my unexplainable love for one piece into words
17:05 People being afraid of Smoker was explained as them being afraid of his devil fruit. Remember that this was the east blue and that was still a big deal. The sword shop owner had no problem shitting on Tashigi and screaming at her even though she's the second in command on the island.
Love the video, just wanted to clarify a little misinformation.
Akainu isn't confirmed to be a part of SWORD, let alone the leader. That's something that some fans believe aka head canon. Also SWORD seems to focus on taking down the bigger threats as they have spies within Yonko crews and such. Plus with Koby being a prominent member and many of them looking up to Garp, I think it's safe to assume that most of the "good" marines are within this group.
Love these videos a ton. I use them to help with my character writing 😁
I am simple man. I see Smoker appreciation, I like.
another great video! One aspect I don't hear touched on a lot is how the Marine's forms of justice are often wrapped up in religious undertones. If you believe you are fighting for the world government which upholds the 'gods' of the world (celestial dragons), it's basically impossible to claim you aren't working for the 'good' of the world while persecuting those who don't provide a monetary value to your gods (kingdom tributes to Mariejois). The world government operates like an old school religious militia, crusades and all, where any faith in something other than the CDs and WG is treasonous and moving away from the path of god, etc.
Oda does a great job at referencing the nuance related to the forms of government he showcases (Doffy's throne speech anyone?) and I appreciate the contrasts we see on the religious/spiritual side of things with Kuma praying to his god and possessing faith in his people eventually being freed versus the dogma laid down by centuries of one party rule upholding the Celestial Dragon class as literal gods to the 'normal' humans (Homing saying we are all human being heretical).
Just accidentally pulled an all nighter and will now be up for at least another hour. Thanks Mel 😭
Flevance was burnt by Government agents.Not one Marine was seen there.Episodes 700-705.
I swear even after one piece ends there will still be people dissecting it and that's what is so great about it. Oda's just on another level when it comes to story building. I watch videos almost every day that talk about one piece and I still find things that make me look at it in a different way. Like I never thought about the fact that Sengoku was at the cafeteria when talking about the guy who claimed the marine bounty to feed his village. I swear I need to start rereading it. You really have to pay attention to every single panel it seems to not miss something.
I would really like to know who the navy genius was who came up with the idea of increasing Robin's bounty by just 1 million after the Enies Lobby arc.