@@daryllportas8453 If it kept him out, it is the best. Das Fuhrage will destroy democracy, even the limited form that the British people are saddled with.
@@stoptheworldiwannagetoff4780 I didn't state that FPTP was MY "best system". I referred ONLY to Das Fuhrage being kept out. The coward who read "Mein Kampf" at the age of 14, and has lived by the teachings of Herr Schicklgruber ever since. My dad fought against people like you, from 1939 to 1945, and told me a lot about what you people did to those they invaded. Nazis are the lowest of the low. Das Fuhrage is down there with them, as are all the Anglo-Saxon mongrels who support his openly racist and xenophobic viewpoints. IF YOU ARE CLAIMING THAT YOU ARE ENGLISH, then clear off back to Bavaria, and Saxony, where the Angles and Saxe came from, or back to Jutland, in Denmark, where the Jutes came from. YOU are all illegal immigrants, stealing OUR LAND from us true Britons. And the name of these islands is, correctly, PRYTTYNN. Do you see the way that I always try, and fail, to educate you illegal immigrants? This is not your country, it is OURS. Go home, except they won't have you. You've ruined the world, and murdered billions. WHEN are you going to grow up?
@@MartinParsons-tr6wi The WEF is nothing more than a CSR for libertarians and billionaires. And that isn't a very convincing argument for people from Eton...
Out with the old and in with the new, it's time for change , every vote should count , have a referendum to let the people decide. My Vote will be for REFORM
@@karenalletson9767 every vote counts, but some votes count more than others. Its similar to the US, where you have states which decide who gets elected and then states where it literally doesnt matter if you turn up at the ballot because theyre so deep democrat/republican.
we had one in 2011, the vote was no!, you can't do another one on the same issue!!, imagine the uproar if the precious brexit referendum was re run !!!
I am voting Reform here in Exeter even though it’s a safe Labour seat. The things happening in this City has to change in my view so I will never think my vote is wasted.
Their ideas are actually quite good across the board - like this one, but most people have been brainwashed to think they're bad. What alternatives are there, do we keep voting Tory and Labour forever, two parties full of sleezy shit heads who do nothing but fill their own pockets and fail in every single aspect delivering what the public want? Time for change.
@@ToodyslexicforyouAt least he's taking chances with a different party and not voting for the same party and acting surprise their not doing they want.
I've always said "the voting system in the UK is RIDICULOUS " , proportional representation has to be the correct voting system , no other voting system would operate like this 🤦 !!!!!!
The only common sense thing Tice has said. I do agree with him on proportional representation, it's not fair that a party can get millions of votes and one or two seats, if that.
He only wants PR so he can go into the House and blackmail the Left or the right to get what he wants. He is not a decent block, he is as disgusting as fascists come.
@@philipcrossley1279Nah. No PM elect in their right mind would change the system that gets them there. We can’t have PR because FPTP works too well for the only people who could change it. Starmer doesn’t have this guy ⬆️ in mind when deciding against PR.
There wasn't a referendum for proportional representation in the UK. That is used an excuse to shut down the idea. In 2011 there was a referendum on having an Alternative Vote. I actually agree proportional representation should replace 1st past the post, even if it means certain idiots can get in.
The system proposed in the 2011 vote was the worst possible version of PR, it basiclaly meant that you ended up with the least unpopular candidate or to put it another way the candidate nobody really disliked but who was absolutely not the one anyone wanted, I agree we need PR but even I voted against that version.
@paulfranklin8636 we use multi MLA candidate constituencies with the chance of a greater representation for the various parties. In England, this might mean a tory getting elected in Liverpool and a socialist in the West County reflecting the true political breakdown of the constituency. Perhaps the people behind the 2011 referendum knew the type of system they proposed would fail.
You've misunderstood whatever source you read about the 2011 referendum. AV (Alternative Vote) is a form of PR, it was chosen as the form of PR that would have been used if the referendum had gone that way. There was never any suggestion that the public would choose the type of PR to be used, the government made that decision before the referendum.
This is massively important for Britain to escape the establishment uniparty of Labour & Tories! We need to get the party we vote for, not be forced to vote strategically.. Give every party an equal chance and let the real winner win!
In the 2015 election, UKIP had the 3rd highest share of the vote, 12'5% and they gained 'ONE' seat. Under a PR voting system, they would have had over 80 seats!!
Why? Your vote is counted wherever you cast it. What you might mean is that you live in a place where enough other people disagree with your views, or vote for another party than you do, to elect a candidate you didn’t vote for. That happens everywhere. You could move to a safe seat constituency that was the “right” one for you if you felt that strongly about it? Then our social sorting would be even more successful than it currently is. But remember the Red Wall experience…they were apparently safe Labour seats.
Ironically, if everyone who believed that went and voted, things would change...it's really rather upsetting for everyone in the long run, but for those who do make a point of voting. Even if 'your' party gets trounced, it sends a message, you're making your mark. If nothing else, people have given their lives for you to have that right to exercise. If you shan't vote for yourself, perhaps...vote for the most vulnerable person you know... what a change we'd bring if we all did that.
Brilliant unbiased interview. I think the guy is a bit of a bellend and his party is worse than UKIP but a lot of what he said in this was spot on. Everyone wants PR not FPTP
Yes I'm totally in favour of abandoning a totally workable model in place of one that this party is already optimising to gain seats from based on it's weaknesses. Honestly this sort of politics and the "tear up all the rules" WILL see us further down the chain than we already are.
@@babybluesky9238 FPTP has never been workable, as he said... its us and belarus... we will absolutely get more fascist nut jobs with seats but we will ALSO have actual representation. My MP has been a tory for my entire voting life (im 38) and will probably still be next year... why should i vote? (I do, but thats what a lot of people say)
The people have wanted proportional representation for a long time. They agreed to it 12 - 15 years ago, but made it so complicated no-one could understand it and it wads abandoned - there's a surprise!
I'd love to see Farage involved in the political debate. If it's the political media or even 99% of our MPs, they all tend to agree with each other, I suppose for an easy life. Anyone on the fringes should have more of a chance to air their views, right or left.
The green vote would absolutely skyrocket once people knew it wasn't wasted. There was a huge green vote in the last EU elections because that uses PR. A lot of people consider climate change their top priority and would vote green given the chance. But the green party is also more left wing than the current Labour party and would pick up a lot of votes from disaffected Labour voters.
No! It wasn’t put into the party manifesto because Starmer choose to ignore that 80% of his own parties members voted for it. Massively anti-democratic.
@@james2450 Thanks, I had a horrible feeling it wasn’t. I live in a very safe Labour seat but if it wasn’t I would vote for any party that would oust a Tory incumbent. Now my vote will go to the Green Party as a protest vote. Futile under this system we have but it will make me feel better!
It's because when we think of the Conservatives, the fascists come to mind but given that Tice is on the far right, he looks at the more moderate Conservatives like Rory Stewart, as getting in his way. In the same way Corbyn supporters look at Starmer as a Tory wearing red. It's all a matter of perspective.
They're normally surprisingly composed when talking to nut jobs. Their "what do voters think in..." videos when there's a byelection are filled with people spouting utter tripe. I wouldn't be able to keep a straight face.
Power-hungry social democrats, no less. Progressives only want power so that that the government actively serves the people based on what they need, not like these far-right dingbats who just want to persecute immigrants.
The problem is, Reform don’t represent 10% of the country. They represent 10% in polling of a very small select group of people, many of whom were cherrypicked. What is a more accurate metric, is to look at the vote share their candidates have received in elections. Averaging out the vote share across all their candidates. Regional = 0.76%, locals = 6%
@@WeRemainFaceless I disagree about looking at past elections being more accurate. Under PR everything changes. I for example, will be able to vote for the party I want to vote for rather than strategically against the Tories. My vote for a smaller party will no longer be a wasted vote. It seems like millions of people are in the same boat, unable to vote for the party they'd choose because of our stupid system. Change the system and those previous election results are no longer a reliable metric.
4 million votes got UKIP one seat. That was 13% of the vote. The following year in Germany, a similar party of the right AfD, got 13% and 90 seats. NB Germany's parliamentary democracy hasn't collapsed as a result and people in the electorate still get a vote that counts.
He doesn't actually believe anything he says - just spouts it for advantage. "people on the doorsteps say 'Richard, you seem like a nice bloke".........if so, they don't have a clue: he's a dangerous extremist, with a right-wing nutcase girlfriend.
he only wants PR so he can do coalitions with the toried every single GE with his 10% of the public vote - achieved by promising the moon knowing he'll get no power to deliver and thertefore gets a free pass for lying to the public all election campaign - its so obvious they want pr to keep the tories far right decline politics in power indefinitley - why only now do they want pr - when labour are gonna win ?
lol good point. Had FPT suited Reform UK they wouldn't be suggesting Proportional Representation and would be saying "we already had a referendum". Even though AV isn't PR.
The public certainly need more say in the direction of Britain. The biggest barrier to this is that the vast majority of MPs are lawyers which is why we haven't left the ECHR. Blatant self interest. We need a small business vote to end big business cronyism that has penalised small business to stop any competition leading to higher prices in the shops! Pr doesn't work in Italy were they have a new government every year. Nothing gets done and the country is bankrupt!
Even after what just happened in the Netherlands I’m still up for PR. It means that Kier can’t hold the left to ransom (with the threat of fascism) under a two party system.
I would argue that what happened in the Netherlands is exactly why you'd want PR. Yes, PVV is the biggest party, but they still need other parties to rule, which led Wilders to already tone down his more extremist positions in his victory speech(!). If you look at the results and apply FPtP per municipality, he'd have won about 80% of seats, instead of the 23% he has now.
@@CFTim The Conservatives are so off base with their voters. It took Nigel Farage to deliver Brexit, but Brexit would have happened sooner if he actually got proportional seats in Parliament. People would leave the Tories and Labour in droves if they didn't 'tactically vote' for who could actually win the seat.
How is what happened in Netherlands being held up as a poor advertisement for PR? If it wasn’t for PR then Geert Wilders would have a majority so now thanks to PR he has to form a coalition and compromise.
as someone in favour of PR, i'm not sure how comfortable i am with reform owning the idea....but then thats the point i suppose - we need this system to be representative, so everyone needs to get behind it
PR is the logical choice, whether you're left or right, Tice is spot on here, obviously we cant expect Lab and Con to be in favour of PR because they're the ones who benefit most from FPTP.
Right! PR is the logical choice! OK, how long have you been a member of the Electoral Reform Society? Since 1978, like me? Tell me the most popular PR systems in Europe, and which countries use which one. You can't do that, because until Tice mentioned that your Führer was in favour of PR, you had no opinion on it, one way ot the other. What specific system do you think would be best? Do you like MMM? STV, with MSC? MCL with PLTU? Stop being so vague. And actually learn something about it. Have you EVER had any thoughts on PR before today? I doubt it.
80% of the media is right wing, and has only gotten more extremist over the last 10 years. we also have NO written constitution setting down what is and isnt allowed in absolute stone. PR in that environment is basically just rolling over and letting the facists con their way into dictatorship.
We have a common enemy now and that is the radical Islamists who want to overthrow the country and do away with the infidels. Beleive me this is the reality. All Britons must unite.
Hearing politicians speak just gives me a headache. I wish they’d just speak soberly and be honest with British citizens. They have no shame! And so far removed from the lives of average people in Britain. It’s sickening. I hate it here
How can you not agree with someone who wants to stop the massive invasion of illegals coming into our country, a stop to net zero, lower or no taxes for lower paid people, jobs and housing for British people instead of immigrants and so on.
@@vaughanrichards7438 Well if you are a nationalist full stop then the only reason is you believe your nation is superior to other nations. Which is just racism. There are lots of good reasons to be a Welsh nationalist but being one with no reason is just racism.
There wasn't a referendum for PR in 2011. There was a referendum for a change of voting system but the new system proposed was not any form of PR. Under the AV system proposed in 2011 if any party had a 51% majority in every constituency they would have won 100% of the seats in parliament, just like they do under the current system.
Come on then Dickie, what are Reform UK's policies on Education, on health, on energy, on the environment, on foreign policy, culture etc etc et-f***ing-cetera??
They have a nice easy to read PDF on their website - Reform ..... everything ... overnight .. just like the AFD in Germany . and once the immigrunts are gone - Britain will be Great
About time we got rid of the LibLabCon club in Westminster. Proportion Representation would help clean up British politics which is now rotten and corrupt 👍
France does not have PR. Instead it has a first and second “tour” system of voting under FPTP. I commend it to you, as it is much clearer and more effective. Most systems of PR end up being dominated by party lists. I suspect that most people who support it have no concept how it works.
Missed the opportunity to ask the question if a referendum on PR is held within the next 5 years, would it not set a precedent that another EU referendum could be held in the next decade too?
@@Nice0n3 That sounds like a made-up statistic. The Tories got 40%(ish). Labour weren't offering a second referendum iirc and they must have got over 10%.
It is the EU system, makes it easier for the insider elites to control everything regardless of the voters. Tice , the LDs and the likes, support it as it gets their feet under the club table. Rigging power after the vote amongst themselves. Toe the line to go up the party list for a position. Cutting out the people effectively.
My vote is for reform. I think the best thing for this country is if no one votes for either the conservatives, Labour or Lib Dem’s in England. We should also have an English parliament
Proportional representation is the one thing I agree with Reform on (just remember that some versions of PR are better than others and the system that we use should ideally get rid of safe seats and remove the need for tactical voting).
Proportional representation is the only way to have true democracy. There are two requirements real democracy is...1 man 1 vote and every vote carries the weight. Under our current first past the post only those votes in constituencies with a narrow majority matters.
PR results in more small parties, the vote is split and you end up with a rag tag coalition following horse trading that nobody voted for. Under FPTP the main parties are effectively pre-formed coalitions with a combined manifesto so you know what you are voting for.
@@phil2544 - you’re right, it didn’t work as intended on only one occasion. In 2011 such was the phenomenal support for the SNP it won 69 of the 129 seats. Quite a feat when you consider the purpose of adopting the d’Hondt electoral system was specifically to ensure no one party had the majority thus encouraging consensus governance. No other party has come close to repeating this achievement except the SNP themselves who still dominate Scottish politics winning the last Holyrood election with 47% of the vote share, 64 seats - 1 seat shy of another majority. For comparison the last Westminster election was won by Johnson’s Tories who took just 44% of votes in their “landslide” victory that awarded them an unassailable 80 seat majority.
PR is the most important thing really. Even if it gives seats to fascist thugs like Tice. If you want more democracy, you accept that these lunatics potentially get more power.
I agree. All it takes is fascists thugs in suits like this current Tory party and winner takes all under FPTP. Also the more people learn that good ol Nige isn't in favour of the NHS the more they will realise they can't have their cake and eat it.
@@colinnewmarch1106 It is fairly simple really, you have to support the following: 1) a sense of overwhelming crisis beyond the reach of any traditional solutions; - see small boats, migrants, Muslims, whatever the trend is this week that you can call woke 2) the primacy of the group, toward which one has duties superior to every right, whether individual or universal, and the subordination of the individual to it; - See all racists that use the above as validation for their feeling of superiority 3) the belief that one’s group is a victim, a sentiment that justifies any action, without legal or moral limits, against its enemies, both internal and external; dread of the group’s decline under the corrosive effects of individualistic liberalism, class conflict, and alien influences; - Anything with the word Woke attached to it that the nutters can't explain - saying the word Woke only suggests that the individual is uneducated and is the real cancel culture 4) the need for closer integration of a purer community, by consent if possible, or by exclusionary violence if necessary; - Any of the above really here where the old, conservative or thick people consider a threat to their perceived superiority 5) the need for authority by natural chiefs (always male), culminating in a national chieftain who alone is capable of incarnating the group’s historical destiny; - Tice, Farage, Wilders, Trump = the list is endless here 6) the superiority of the leader’s instincts over abstract and universal reason; - Same as above 7) the beauty of violence and the efficacy of will, when they are devoted to the group’s success; - see the nutters called to the Cenotaph by Cruella 8) the right of the chosen people to dominate others without restraint from any kind of human or divine law, right being decided by the sole criterion of the group’s prowess within a Darwinian struggle. - Brexit means Brexit, we won, whatever you wish to lay this against I can go on but I won't that is enough for you to be getting on with...
Oh god I hope so. He's obviously doing it out of self interested but ultimately it will stop the tories absolutely dominating political office as they have for the last 200yrs.
Just to refresh your memory, the Lib Dems went into coalition with the conservatives in the 2010 election. This is how David Cameron got into office. The Conservatives got 36% of the vote, and Labour got 29% of the vote. So, the Conservatives would have gotten the first crack at forming a coalition government. Just like the PVV gets to do in the Netherlands now. Yes, Labour + Lib Dems got 52% of the vote in this election, but whether there was proportional voting or not, I don't see how the government wouldn't have been Conservative + Lib Dem. And that government did Brexit.
not necessarily true. UKIP would have won massive amount of seats in 2015 (third highest voted party) and then potentially tories and them would have had a coalition, under the agreement of referendum
Could you imagine if Reform UK, Lib Dems and The Green Party worked TOGETHER on this issue? It would be epic! Put politics aside and fight for PR for the good of the COUNTRY!!
I didn't have agreeing with ReformUK or Nigel Farage on my 2023 bingo card... been asking for proportional representation for years that and more referendums on larger pieces of legislation
Well argued. I support the Green Party but I thought it was utterly undemocratic that in 2015 UKIP and the Greens got plenty of votes and next to no representation. As to those complaining the likes of Tice will get in, we already have Tory headbangers like Lee Anderson and maybe make better arguments if you want to defeat Tice and friends.
Although it sickens me to agree with Farage, we need PR in this country. At the moment we have an extreme right wing government based on some 25% of the electorate voting for them. Unlike other European countries, our winner takes it all parliament means they can get away with their extremism. The Tories are basically ukip at this point, but people who wouldn't dream of voting for UKIP will vote for the Tories - the party they've always voted for. In other European countries far right parties might win the majority of votes but because voting gives seats to a number of parties - their power is defused, they have to make coalitions and compromise if they want power. Perhaps if Farage had been voted in as a British MP, his grift would have soon been discovered. He's far too lazy to want to serve his constituents, as shown by his lack of attendance in his job as an MEP. Maybe after a term he could have become the irrelevance that we all deserve.
What have you been smoking i wish we did have an extreme right wing government instead of these leftie Tory fools doing nothing about the invasion taking place.
I've thought that the first past the post system is very broken. We are in a situation where most people are going to vote labour, not because they want too but because they hate the Tories ... People should be able to vote Green, or Lib Dems and know there vote matters
It will be terrible for the country. It gives minority fringe lunatics (like Farage) kingmaking powers in the coalition negotiations, allowing them to hold the entire country to ransom. Winston Peters in NZ is a prime example - he has been in and out of coalitions for 25+ years.
@@zigzagnemesist5074Great question. The Single market allows free trade and these nutjobs were against that so I think tice and Co just talk dribbly shite
Come on dude... have you even watched him? He is not like how you described at all. This is no better when Republicans in USA call Democrats or Biden or people who want public healthcare 'socialists'
We used to have a system of PR on the UK to vote in members of the European Parliament. The place that double standards Nigle Farage said was undemocratic 😂
@sutty85 The UK has always had sovereignty over imagration from non EU countries. Since we left the EU the net legal imagration is highest it has ever been. BTW net legal imagration does not count the people coming in on boats. However I was talking about PR electoral system we used to have when we had democratic elections to European Parliament the only election Nigel Farrage won that at the time he said was undemocratic but now becuase he can't get elected to the British Parliament he want to change the system to one he previously said was undemocratic.
@@old.not.too.grumpy.Despite giving them billions each year, we never held any sway in the European parliament. That was the rub. All we got was diktat
@MartinParsons-tr6wi just because the majority in the Ezu parliament until recently was left of centre doesn't mean it was undemocratic. However, the main work of the EU is carried out the commissioners who are appointed by the national governments and the council of ministers who are from governments. However the Brexitiers talked up the role of the bureaucracy who are the same as the UK civil service there to carry out the wishes of the council of minister. Like with most things, they twisted the truth because the EU curbed the excesses of the extremes of politics. It was noticeable that the most vocal supporters of Brexit with from either the far right or far left of British politics
@@old.not.too.grumpy. The EU is every bit as adept at truth twisting. Arguably more so. The administering of threats and metaphorical punishment beatings since we voted to leave their extortionate embrace, does not have the ring of a benevolent democracy about it. I agree with you about the way it endeavours to stifle politics in other people's countries. Curiously, you didn't comment on its diktat (or the missing billions, never signed off)
Proportional representation is important. I am a labour voter (I don't like Keir) I don't like that it gives a voice to the far right and far left but that might be better for "democracy".
Single transferable vote with multi member constituencies. If you have 5 seat constituencies then you need 20% support to get any seats. Keeps out the extreme parties but lets people's voices be heard.
It's not the job of the voting system to filter out candidates some of us don't like; it's up to the other parties to communicate better ideas and convince that 10% why they should vote for someone else. PR is the way forward regardless of where you sit on the political spectrum.
The man got 4 million votes and only 1 seat. The British voting system is awful.
Still the best, though.
@@daryllportas8453 If it kept him out, it is the best. Das Fuhrage will destroy democracy, even the limited form that the British people are saddled with.
@@Demun1649 Your 'best system' has us with a PM no one voted for.........not for the first time either!
@@stoptheworldiwannagetoff4780 I didn't state that FPTP was MY "best system". I referred ONLY to Das Fuhrage being kept out. The coward who read "Mein Kampf" at the age of 14, and has lived by the teachings of Herr Schicklgruber ever since. My dad fought against people like you, from 1939 to 1945, and told me a lot about what you people did to those they invaded. Nazis are the lowest of the low. Das Fuhrage is down there with them, as are all the Anglo-Saxon mongrels who support his openly racist and xenophobic viewpoints. IF YOU ARE CLAIMING THAT YOU ARE ENGLISH, then clear off back to Bavaria, and Saxony, where the Angles and Saxe came from, or back to Jutland, in Denmark, where the Jutes came from. YOU are all illegal immigrants, stealing OUR LAND from us true Britons.
And the name of these islands is, correctly, PRYTTYNN. Do you see the way that I always try, and fail, to educate you illegal immigrants?
This is not your country, it is OURS. Go home, except they won't have you. You've ruined the world, and murdered billions. WHEN are you going to grow up?
designed that way to keep the surfs out of power.
Got my vote. Reform all the way!
THEN SPREAD THE WORD, IT COSTS NOTHING. THE BLOODY MEDIA WON'T HELP US.
Good old Nigel, we need Proportional representation so we can kick out the old Etonians pensions club.
It's the WEF lackeys that need kicking out
@@MartinParsons-tr6wibillionaires and privileged oligarchs*
@@joedowning2428 Blair, Mandelson, Starmer, Sunak et al, are all instrumental in the dirty work, and capitalising nicely. None of them went to Eton
@@MartinParsons-tr6wi The WEF is nothing more than a CSR for libertarians and billionaires. And that isn't a very convincing argument for people from Eton...
@@joedowning2428 CSR ? Not sure what that is. But I reckon the WEF is the public face of the MIC (!)
Great interview, vote REFORM everyone.
Out with the old and in with the new, it's time for change , every vote should count , have a referendum to let the people decide.
My Vote will be for REFORM
Every vote does count, but the majority decides. Se my other reply as to why PR is a disaster.
@@karenalletson9767 every vote counts, but some votes count more than others. Its similar to the US, where you have states which decide who gets elected and then states where it literally doesnt matter if you turn up at the ballot because theyre so deep democrat/republican.
we had one in 2011, the vote was no!, you can't do another one on the same issue!!, imagine the uproar if the precious brexit referendum was re run !!!
I am voting Reform here in Exeter even though it’s a safe Labour seat. The things happening in this City has to change in my view so I will never think my vote is wasted.
What is Reform. Their website gives no clue. They don't let us know their educational backgrounds. You are nothing but an ORC.
6 years of Labour is worth breaking the 15 year grip tories have had over Britain
Brexeter
@@BossySwan 100%
The one special time where basically everyone agrees with REFORM UK 😂
Their ideas are actually quite good across the board - like this one, but most people have been brainwashed to think they're bad.
What alternatives are there, do we keep voting Tory and Labour forever, two parties full of sleezy shit heads who do nothing but fill their own pockets and fail in every single aspect delivering what the public want? Time for change.
@@andrewwigham3026maybe your the one who been brainwashed by Refrom UK😂😂😂😂
@@ToodyslexicforyouAt least he's taking chances with a different party and not voting for the same party and acting surprise their not doing they want.
I agree entirely with Richard Tice on this. He’s the only possibility of a good Prime Minister.
Well said Richard 💯🇬🇧
I've always said "the voting system in the UK is RIDICULOUS " , proportional representation has to be the correct voting system , no other voting system would operate like this 🤦 !!!!!!
I’m definitely voting reform.
Come on Mr Tice- u can do it- we are behind u. May God bless ye
Nice one Joe. I didn't expect you to give Reform air time - it's important to consider both sides of an argument without bias.
A true man of the people who doesn't care about their own agenda.
no
@@user-ir9zn3lq8g yes
The only common sense thing Tice has said. I do agree with him on proportional representation, it's not fair that a party can get millions of votes and one or two seats, if that.
Love it! Yes I will vote for either of these men.
My dad fought from 1939 until 1945 against people just like these heroes of yours. Do you not KNOW HISTORY?
Arise Sir Nigel
Reform Party for me and my red wall family 🇬🇧
I fear deeply that I agree with Richard Tice on a political matter.
He only wants PR so he can go into the House
and blackmail the Left or the right to get what he wants.
He is not a decent block, he is as disgusting as fascists come.
He's a populist, he says a lot of things a majority of people agree with. But will never follow through with any of the policies once in power.
@@philipcrossley1279Nah. No PM elect in their right mind would change the system that gets them there. We can’t have PR because FPTP works too well for the only people who could change it.
Starmer doesn’t have this guy ⬆️ in mind when deciding against PR.
Me too. Must be a full moon.
@@karlhinzePR would work much better for Labour by preventing minority parties like Tories undoing all Labour's progress.
There wasn't a referendum for proportional representation in the UK. That is used an excuse to shut down the idea. In 2011 there was a referendum on having an Alternative Vote. I actually agree proportional representation should replace 1st past the post, even if it means certain idiots can get in.
Idiots get in no matter what! Some of the so-called "normal" MPs would be sectioned in any other place of work.
The system proposed in the 2011 vote was the worst possible version of PR, it basiclaly meant that you ended up with the least unpopular candidate or to put it another way the candidate nobody really disliked but who was absolutely not the one anyone wanted, I agree we need PR but even I voted against that version.
@paulfranklin8636 we use multi MLA candidate constituencies with the chance of a greater representation for the various parties. In England, this might mean a tory getting elected in Liverpool and a socialist in the West County reflecting the true political breakdown of the constituency. Perhaps the people behind the 2011 referendum knew the type of system they proposed would fail.
You've misunderstood whatever source you read about the 2011 referendum. AV (Alternative Vote) is a form of PR, it was chosen as the form of PR that would have been used if the referendum had gone that way. There was never any suggestion that the public would choose the type of PR to be used, the government made that decision before the referendum.
Idiots get in but tend to lose their voters in the following election cycles
This is massively important for Britain to escape the establishment uniparty of Labour & Tories! We need to get the party we vote for, not be forced to vote strategically.. Give every party an equal chance and let the real winner win!
Great stuff Richard tice ❤❤❤
Amazing that I want the same thing as Nigel Farage. Yes, we need PR in this country.
In the 2015 election, UKIP had the 3rd highest share of the vote, 12'5% and they gained 'ONE' seat. Under a PR voting system, they would have had over 80 seats!!
There is simply no point in voting in many constituencies in the UK, it's a complete waste of time.
You vote tactically
Why? Your vote is counted wherever you cast it. What you might mean is that you live in a place where enough other people disagree with your views, or vote for another party than you do, to elect a candidate you didn’t vote for. That happens everywhere. You could move to a safe seat constituency that was the “right” one for you if you felt that strongly about it? Then our social sorting would be even more successful than it currently is. But remember the Red Wall experience…they were apparently safe Labour seats.
Ironically, if everyone who believed that went and voted, things would change...it's really rather upsetting for everyone in the long run, but for those who do make a point of voting. Even if 'your' party gets trounced, it sends a message, you're making your mark. If nothing else, people have given their lives for you to have that right to exercise. If you shan't vote for yourself, perhaps...vote for the most vulnerable person you know... what a change we'd bring if we all did that.
stupid view. thats tory propaganda.
Don't agree with Reform UK policies, but I do believe PR is badly needed to fix the current system.
Brilliant unbiased interview. I think the guy is a bit of a bellend and his party is worse than UKIP but a lot of what he said in this was spot on. Everyone wants PR not FPTP
Yes I'm totally in favour of abandoning a totally workable model in place of one that this party is already optimising to gain seats from based on it's weaknesses.
Honestly this sort of politics and the "tear up all the rules" WILL see us further down the chain than we already are.
@@babybluesky9238 FPTP has never been workable, as he said... its us and belarus... we will absolutely get more fascist nut jobs with seats but we will ALSO have actual representation. My MP has been a tory for my entire voting life (im 38) and will probably still be next year... why should i vote? (I do, but thats what a lot of people say)
Be prepared for the argument that PR means having a nutter like Mr Farage garage in Downing Street
@@Warbamanexactly although labour needs to get out and bang the drum waste money hitting the ‘it’s pointless’ voters into a booth
I wasn't expecting this type of an unbiased interview on PoliticsJoe but was pleasantly surprised, good job :).
If the state of labour and tories haven't shown the need for PR nothing will.
Have you seen the other parties! They are all dreadful.
@@michaelkent6121 With that attitude let's just give up on democracy entirely then.
The people have wanted proportional representation for a long time. They agreed to it 12 - 15 years ago, but made it so complicated no-one could understand it and it wads abandoned - there's a surprise!
That wasnt PR that was AV and was rejected in a referendum.
I'd love to see Farage involved in the political debate. If it's the political media or even 99% of our MPs, they all tend to agree with each other, I suppose for an easy life. Anyone on the fringes should have more of a chance to air their views, right or left.
Wasn’t PR put in the Labour manifesto as it passed at conference? British politics needs PR. I think it would increase the Green vote as well.
For the past however many years, the members overwhelmingly vote for PR to be in the manifesto but the executive veto it.
The green vote would absolutely skyrocket once people knew it wasn't wasted. There was a huge green vote in the last EU elections because that uses PR. A lot of people consider climate change their top priority and would vote green given the chance. But the green party is also more left wing than the current Labour party and would pick up a lot of votes from disaffected Labour voters.
I think green, Lib Dem and the SWP, and more other smaller parties on the right.
No! It wasn’t put into the party manifesto because Starmer choose to ignore that 80% of his own parties members voted for it. Massively anti-democratic.
@@james2450 Thanks, I had a horrible feeling it wasn’t. I live in a very safe Labour seat but if it wasn’t I would vote for any party that would oust a Tory incumbent. Now my vote will go to the Green Party as a protest vote. Futile under this system we have but it will make me feel better!
How Ava didn't burst out laughing when he said the Tory party is full of "social democrats" is beyond me
It's because when we think of the Conservatives, the fascists come to mind but given that Tice is on the far right, he looks at the more moderate Conservatives like Rory Stewart, as getting in his way. In the same way Corbyn supporters look at Starmer as a Tory wearing red. It's all a matter of perspective.
They're normally surprisingly composed when talking to nut jobs. Their "what do voters think in..." videos when there's a byelection are filled with people spouting utter tripe. I wouldn't be able to keep a straight face.
@@philipcrossley1279😭😭😭
Power-hungry social democrats, no less.
Progressives only want power so that that the government actively serves the people based on what they need, not like these far-right dingbats who just want to persecute immigrants.
He’s not wrong
That rare occasion when a slimy slug speaks some sense.
broken clock is still correct twice a day
Yeah right..
*I DO NOT AGREE WITH ANYTHING THEY STAND FOR* but if they represent 10% of the country - they deserve 10% of the seats - thats 65 MP's...!!!
@@richard520 racist!
The problem is, Reform don’t represent 10% of the country. They represent 10% in polling of a very small select group of people, many of whom were cherrypicked.
What is a more accurate metric, is to look at the vote share their candidates have received in elections. Averaging out the vote share across all their candidates. Regional = 0.76%, locals = 6%
@@WeRemainFaceless I disagree about looking at past elections being more accurate. Under PR everything changes. I for example, will be able to vote for the party I want to vote for rather than strategically against the Tories. My vote for a smaller party will no longer be a wasted vote.
It seems like millions of people are in the same boat, unable to vote for the party they'd choose because of our stupid system. Change the system and those previous election results are no longer a reliable metric.
@@WeRemainFaceless Loads more people will bother to vote under PR... at the moment it's just farce red or blue... both has sold out the people
@sueyourself5413 This word racist?? Meaningless over said!!
Totally agree. UKIP is the last party I'd vote for but it is a travesty that their 3 million votes didn't get them seats in parliament.
The travesty is that they get 3 million votes. 3 million idiots, chancers and racists in one country is too many.
Well they found a home in the Tories and got their brexit.
Talk to the Green Party !!!
4 million votes got UKIP one seat. That was 13% of the vote. The following year in Germany, a similar party of the right AfD, got 13% and 90 seats. NB Germany's parliamentary democracy hasn't collapsed as a result and people in the electorate still get a vote that counts.
@@matthewcook9404 them too yeah, although was less than UKIP in that election, about 1.5 million votes if I recall rightly?
Imagine thinking the Tories are social democrats! Spot on about PR though...
I think he means raving Trotskyite traitors
He doesn't actually believe anything he says - just spouts it for advantage.
"people on the doorsteps say 'Richard, you seem like a nice bloke".........if so, they don't have a clue: he's a dangerous extremist, with a right-wing nutcase girlfriend.
Commieservatives
Tories aren’t remotely right wing
That awful feeling when the worst person you know just made a great point
he only wants PR so he can do coalitions with the toried every single GE with his 10% of the public vote - achieved by promising the moon knowing he'll get no power to deliver and thertefore gets a free pass for lying to the public all election campaign - its so obvious they want pr to keep the tories far right decline politics in power indefinitley - why only now do they want pr - when labour are gonna win ?
puts you right off!
Maybe it’s time to reevaluate your perspective?
And also, good on you for listening to the argument rather than casting aspersions on your enemy.
@@djkushEven Mussolini could make the buses run on time...
But opting out of ECHR, like Belarus, is great company apparently !
yes it is, Belarus has working borders.
@@elvishprincess321It’s also a dictatorship which violates human rights on a daily basis.
@@elvishprincess321 not hard to have working borders when no sod wants to go there.
@@The_Fat_Controller sshhhhh don't tell him. He thinks he would be one of the lucky few not to get f'ed by a dictatorship or Fascist regime.
@@mrmajeika6101Right? Lol. That's like saying North Korea has no immigration problem...and it's apparent why! 😂
"Yes we already had a referendum, but things have changed so we should be able to change our minds" says (checks notes) noted Brexiteer Richard Tice.
lol good point. Had FPT suited Reform UK they wouldn't be suggesting Proportional Representation and would be saying "we already had a referendum". Even though AV isn't PR.
Well spotted👍
LOL its not all about you pal . EU citizens have a choice and it's fu*k the UK good init.
Came here to say this
No party that can win under 1ptp will consent to changing it.
The public certainly need more say in the direction of Britain. The biggest barrier to this is that the vast majority of MPs are lawyers which is why we haven't left the ECHR. Blatant self interest. We need a small business vote to end big business cronyism that has penalised small business to stop any competition leading to higher prices in the shops! Pr doesn't work in Italy were they have a new government every year. Nothing gets done and the country is bankrupt!
Good grief, I agree with Tice !
The irony of kippers calling other politicians snakes. They are the biggest bunch of slimy creatures out there.
@@dogboy5398labour is the reason we are in the mess. The Tories just finished the job. The left are absolute morons.
@@dogboy5398Banal and facile, as David Bowie would say
Even after what just happened in the Netherlands I’m still up for PR. It means that Kier can’t hold the left to ransom (with the threat of fascism) under a two party system.
I would argue that what happened in the Netherlands is exactly why you'd want PR. Yes, PVV is the biggest party, but they still need other parties to rule, which led Wilders to already tone down his more extremist positions in his victory speech(!). If you look at the results and apply FPtP per municipality, he'd have won about 80% of seats, instead of the 23% he has now.
@@CFTim The Conservatives are so off base with their voters. It took Nigel Farage to deliver Brexit, but Brexit would have happened sooner if he actually got proportional seats in Parliament. People would leave the Tories and Labour in droves if they didn't 'tactically vote' for who could actually win the seat.
How is what happened in Netherlands being held up as a poor advertisement for PR? If it wasn’t for PR then Geert Wilders would have a majority so now thanks to PR he has to form a coalition and compromise.
My vote will go to Reform party!!
as someone in favour of PR, i'm not sure how comfortable i am with reform owning the idea....but then thats the point i suppose - we need this system to be representative, so everyone needs to get behind it
PR is the logical choice, whether you're left or right, Tice is spot on here, obviously we cant expect Lab and Con to be in favour of PR because they're the ones who benefit most from FPTP.
Right! PR is the logical choice! OK, how long have you been a member of the Electoral Reform Society? Since 1978, like me? Tell me the most popular PR systems in Europe, and which countries use which one.
You can't do that, because until Tice mentioned that your Führer was in favour of PR, you had no opinion on it, one way ot the other. What specific system do you think would be best? Do you like MMM? STV, with MSC? MCL with PLTU?
Stop being so vague. And actually learn something about it. Have you EVER had any thoughts on PR before today? I doubt it.
Surely left and right can come together on PR.....this country can't keep flitting between red and blue for eternity
80% of the media is right wing, and has only gotten more extremist over the last 10 years.
we also have NO written constitution setting down what is and isnt allowed in absolute stone.
PR in that environment is basically just rolling over and letting the facists con their way into dictatorship.
tories never will. they have been able to win numerous elections on 35% vote. libs/labour/greens split vote too much
We have a common enemy now and that is the radical Islamists who want to overthrow the country and do away with the infidels. Beleive me this is the reality. All Britons must unite.
Watch "I'm alright, Jack".
Plus ca change (, plus c'est la meme chose).
I think I'm going to vote for reform, we're almost out of options
Absolutely agree with Richard something has to give, we cannot carry with FPTP any longer.
I'll be voting ReformUK - because we need it.
As the idiom goes, "A broken clock is right, twice a day".
Hearing politicians speak just gives me a headache. I wish they’d just speak soberly and be honest with British citizens. They have no shame! And so far removed from the lives of average people in Britain. It’s sickening. I hate it here
Me too. I'm getting away from this miserable country as soon as I can. Leave it to the gammons.
Give life in China or North Korea a try. We’ll see how you feel then…
I totally agree Richard
I'm a member of Reform but have heard absolutely nothing from our local representative. Very disappointing.
I agree with Farage 😂 didn’t think I’d be saying that this week lol
Don't agree with what his party stands for, But hes got a point about PR
I dont agree with a damn thing he stands for - but if 15% of the country does they deserve 15% of the seats...!!!
I Live in a safe Tory seat, its never been close to going any other party, without PR my vote is useless
How can you not agree with someone who wants to stop the massive invasion of illegals coming into our country, a stop to net zero, lower or no taxes for lower paid people, jobs and housing for British people instead of immigrants and so on.
@@piccalillipit9211Why wouldn't you agree with him. Are you an illegal immigrant?.
Irish independence good, Brexit bad 🤡
PR is the main reason I am a Scottish Nationalist
I'm a Welsh nationalist full stop.
Nothing to with PR.
@@vaughanrichards7438 Just racism then?
@@Tamaxlia?
@@vaughanrichards7438 Well if you are a nationalist full stop then the only reason is you believe your nation is superior to other nations. Which is just racism. There are lots of good reasons to be a Welsh nationalist but being one with no reason is just racism.
@Tamaxlia I don't believe it is superior I think it has as much right as any other to exist.
Duh!
Up with Reform... Up with Reclaim
We need Civil Service reform just as much as Political Reform
There wasn't a referendum for PR in 2011. There was a referendum for a change of voting system but the new system proposed was not any form of PR. Under the AV system proposed in 2011 if any party had a 51% majority in every constituency they would have won 100% of the seats in parliament, just like they do under the current system.
It does prevent splitting of the vote on the constituency level
Come on then Dickie, what are Reform UK's policies on Education, on health, on energy, on the environment, on foreign policy, culture etc etc et-f***ing-cetera??
They have a nice easy to read PDF on their website - Reform ..... everything ... overnight .. just like the AFD in Germany . and once the immigrunts are gone - Britain will be Great
Up with REFORM 🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧👍👍👍
About time we got rid of the LibLabCon club in Westminster.
Proportion Representation would help clean up British politics which is now rotten and corrupt 👍
France does not have PR. Instead it has a first and second “tour” system of voting under FPTP. I commend it to you, as it is much clearer and more effective. Most systems of PR end up being dominated by party lists. I suspect that most people who support it have no concept how it works.
Missed the opportunity to ask the question if a referendum on PR is held within the next 5 years, would it not set a precedent that another EU referendum could be held in the next decade too?
I suspect the answer would be that the turnout for the brevity referendum was massively higher than the AMS one so it's apples and oranges
I’m voting Reform UK
Why is Reform Uk still a limited company... being a member means nothing right.
If we had pr then Brexit is unlikely to have happened.
52: 48
@@jamhot6 Majority of people in 2019 voted for parties offering a second referendum in their manifestos.
@@Nice0n3 That sounds like a made-up statistic. The Tories got 40%(ish). Labour weren't offering a second referendum iirc and they must have got over 10%.
@@Nice0n3 And then I Google it and see you're right. Wow, I'll leave my stupid comment there for prosperity.
@@CryWillus Its okay as long as people admit their mistakes.
Some do not sadly...
So every country in Europe has a fair and functioning democracy , except GB and Belarus , what ? So Europe is good . I'm lost here .
And the United States and their system ,which delivered Trump with 48% of the popular vote.
It is the EU system, makes it easier for the insider elites to control everything regardless of the voters. Tice , the LDs and the likes, support it as it gets their feet under the club table. Rigging power after the vote amongst themselves. Toe the line to go up the party list for a position. Cutting out the people effectively.
My vote is for reform. I think the best thing for this country is if no one votes for either the conservatives, Labour or Lib Dem’s in England. We should also have an English parliament
You can, not politically align with someone, but also agree with SOME of the things they want to achieve.
Of course you can!
Especially if it's to address the inherent rot in the system
Whenever a fringe party saying “good old fashioned common sense” you know their policies will be mental
Proportional representation is the one thing I agree with Reform on (just remember that some versions of PR are better than others and the system that we use should ideally get rid of safe seats and remove the need for tactical voting).
Vote Reform and get your country back! 🇬🇧 👍
Good job, reform uk on top
Snake oil anyone?
He’s only pushing the idea as it would give Farage power
Proportional representation is the only way to have true democracy. There are two requirements real democracy is...1 man 1 vote and every vote carries the weight. Under our current first past the post only those votes in constituencies with a narrow majority matters.
Our Tory MP doesn't even campaign. Gets nearly 60% of the vote every time.
PR results in more small parties, the vote is split and you end up with a rag tag coalition following horse trading that nobody voted for. Under FPTP the main parties are effectively pre-formed coalitions with a combined manifesto so you know what you are voting for.
You have my vote
Scotland uses the d'hondt method which is a form of proportional representation. Introduced so no one party can have overall control.
Didn't work, did it?
@@phil2544 - you’re right, it didn’t work as intended on only one occasion. In 2011 such was the phenomenal support for the SNP it won 69 of the 129 seats. Quite a feat when you consider the purpose of adopting the d’Hondt electoral system was specifically to ensure no one party had the majority thus encouraging consensus governance. No other party has come close to repeating this achievement except the SNP themselves who still dominate Scottish politics winning the last Holyrood election with 47% of the vote share, 64 seats - 1 seat shy of another majority. For comparison the last Westminster election was won by Johnson’s Tories who took just 44% of votes in their “landslide” victory that awarded them an unassailable 80 seat majority.
PR is the most important thing really. Even if it gives seats to fascist thugs like Tice. If you want more democracy, you accept that these lunatics potentially get more power.
They will still be in the minority so no worries
Even people like you get a vote !
Why a fascist, read your history , the two major parties not supporting the average voter
I agree. All it takes is fascists thugs in suits like this current Tory party and winner takes all under FPTP. Also the more people learn that good ol Nige isn't in favour of the NHS the more they will realise they can't have their cake and eat it.
@@colinnewmarch1106 It is fairly simple really, you have to support the following:
1) a sense of overwhelming crisis beyond the reach of any traditional solutions; - see small boats, migrants, Muslims, whatever the trend is this week that you can call woke
2) the primacy of the group, toward which one has duties superior to every right, whether individual or universal, and the subordination of the individual to it; - See all racists that use the above as validation for their feeling of superiority
3) the belief that one’s group is a victim, a sentiment that justifies any action, without legal or moral limits, against its enemies, both internal and external;
dread of the group’s decline under the corrosive effects of individualistic liberalism, class conflict, and alien influences; - Anything with the word Woke attached to it that the nutters can't explain - saying the word Woke only suggests that the individual is uneducated and is the real cancel culture
4) the need for closer integration of a purer community, by consent if possible, or by exclusionary violence if necessary; - Any of the above really here where the old, conservative or thick people consider a threat to their perceived superiority
5) the need for authority by natural chiefs (always male), culminating in a national chieftain who alone is capable of incarnating the group’s historical destiny; - Tice, Farage, Wilders, Trump = the list is endless here
6) the superiority of the leader’s instincts over abstract and universal reason; - Same as above
7) the beauty of violence and the efficacy of will, when they are devoted to the group’s success; - see the nutters called to the Cenotaph by Cruella
8) the right of the chosen people to dominate others without restraint from any kind of human or divine law, right being decided by the sole criterion of the group’s prowess within a Darwinian struggle. - Brexit means Brexit, we won, whatever you wish to lay this against
I can go on but I won't that is enough for you to be getting on with...
He’s absolutely right
I could see this coming a long time ago.
Oh god I hope so. He's obviously doing it out of self interested but ultimately it will stop the tories absolutely dominating political office as they have for the last 200yrs.
If we'd had proportional representation brexit would never have happened 😅
Just to refresh your memory, the Lib Dems went into coalition with the conservatives in the 2010 election. This is how David Cameron got into office. The Conservatives got 36% of the vote, and Labour got 29% of the vote. So, the Conservatives would have gotten the first crack at forming a coalition government. Just like the PVV gets to do in the Netherlands now.
Yes, Labour + Lib Dems got 52% of the vote in this election, but whether there was proportional voting or not, I don't see how the government wouldn't have been Conservative + Lib Dem. And that government did Brexit.
not necessarily true. UKIP would have won massive amount of seats in 2015 (third highest voted party) and then potentially tories and them would have had a coalition, under the agreement of referendum
Perfectly untrue - Brexit would have won even more resoundingly. (But the whole EU mess would have been resolved by our leaving long before.)
@@matthewstokes1608 thanks for correcting me now could you possibly explain the maths behind your robust rebuke?
@@slartybartfast1 I've provided "maths" but no rebuttal for me? 😂
Could you imagine if Reform UK, Lib Dems and The Green Party worked TOGETHER on this issue? It would be epic! Put politics aside and fight for PR for the good of the COUNTRY!!
I didn't have agreeing with ReformUK or Nigel Farage on my 2023 bingo card... been asking for proportional representation for years that and more referendums on larger pieces of legislation
Well argued. I support the Green Party but I thought it was utterly undemocratic that in 2015 UKIP and the Greens got plenty of votes and next to no representation. As to those complaining the likes of Tice will get in, we already have Tory headbangers like Lee Anderson and maybe make better arguments if you want to defeat Tice and friends.
Although it sickens me to agree with Farage, we need PR in this country. At the moment we have an extreme right wing government based on some 25% of the electorate voting for them. Unlike other European countries, our winner takes it all parliament means they can get away with their extremism. The Tories are basically ukip at this point, but people who wouldn't dream of voting for UKIP will vote for the Tories - the party they've always voted for. In other European countries far right parties might win the majority of votes but because voting gives seats to a number of parties - their power is defused, they have to make coalitions and compromise if they want power.
Perhaps if Farage had been voted in as a British MP, his grift would have soon been discovered. He's far too lazy to want to serve his constituents, as shown by his lack of attendance in his job as an MEP. Maybe after a term he could have become the irrelevance that we all deserve.
Agreeing with Nigel Farage, you need to lay down in a darkened room and take some tablets 😂😂😂
Right Wing Government, your having a laugh, they are Labour dressing un blue
@@davebrown5539Labour are a right wing government dressed in red.
@@davebrown5539 Really ? . That's what the Tory party are hoping people think. You're either a Reform UK voter or less likely, a communist .
What have you been smoking i wish we did have an extreme right wing government instead of these leftie Tory fools doing nothing about the invasion taking place.
REFORM UK ❤
🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧
We MUST have PR in the UK, make the system more representative and limit the power of the corrupt.
Wants to emulate European democracy? So funny.
I've thought that the first past the post system is very broken. We are in a situation where most people are going to vote labour, not because they want too but because they hate the Tories ... People should be able to vote Green, or Lib Dems and know there vote matters
_their_ vote matters.
Reform the only party who listen to the people
Farage is the man to believe in, believe it!
That is the best case I have heard for PR voting for years, even if delivered by an extreme free market disaster capitalist with some fascistic traits
It will be terrible for the country. It gives minority fringe lunatics (like Farage) kingmaking powers in the coalition negotiations, allowing them to hold the entire country to ransom. Winston Peters in NZ is a prime example - he has been in and out of coalitions for 25+ years.
Some??
What’s wrong with free markets? Do you like being controlled by muppets or something?
@@zigzagnemesist5074Great question. The Single market allows free trade and these nutjobs were against that so I think tice and Co just talk dribbly shite
Come on dude... have you even watched him? He is not like how you described at all. This is no better when Republicans in USA call Democrats or Biden or people who want public healthcare 'socialists'
We used to have a system of PR on the UK to vote in members of the European Parliament. The place that double standards Nigle Farage said was undemocratic 😂
No we didn't. We asked them to stop migration.. EU denied. Stop being foolish.
@sutty85 The UK has always had sovereignty over imagration from non EU countries.
Since we left the EU the net legal imagration is highest it has ever been. BTW net legal imagration does not count the people coming in on boats.
However I was talking about PR electoral system we used to have when we had democratic elections to European Parliament the only election Nigel Farrage won that at the time he said was undemocratic but now becuase he can't get elected to the British Parliament he want to change the system to one he previously said was undemocratic.
@@old.not.too.grumpy.Despite giving them billions each year, we never held any sway in the European parliament. That was the rub. All we got was diktat
@MartinParsons-tr6wi just because the majority in the Ezu parliament until recently was left of centre doesn't mean it was undemocratic.
However, the main work of the EU is carried out the commissioners who are appointed by the national governments and the council of ministers who are from governments.
However the Brexitiers talked up the role of the bureaucracy who are the same as the UK civil service there to carry out the wishes of the council of minister.
Like with most things, they twisted the truth because the EU curbed the excesses of the extremes of politics.
It was noticeable that the most vocal supporters of Brexit with from either the far right or far left of British politics
@@old.not.too.grumpy. The EU is every bit as adept at truth twisting. Arguably more so. The administering of threats and metaphorical punishment beatings since we voted to leave their extortionate embrace, does not have the ring of a benevolent democracy about it. I agree with you about the way it endeavours to stifle politics in other people's countries. Curiously, you didn't comment on its diktat (or the missing billions, never signed off)
The system they have in the Republic of Ireland is much better than what the UK uses.
Adelante Reform Uk👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
This guy is a bellend but i've always been a fan of PR
Proportional representation is important. I am a labour voter (I don't like Keir) I don't like that it gives a voice to the far right and far left but that might be better for "democracy".
I’m all for it but prefer it with a 5-10% vote share threshold and alternative vote. Any more than 4 way coalition negotiations are impossible.
Single transferable vote with multi member constituencies. If you have 5 seat constituencies then you need 20% support to get any seats. Keeps out the extreme parties but lets people's voices be heard.
important question missed, what sort of PR system would they campaign for? STV?
It's not the job of the voting system to filter out candidates some of us don't like; it's up to the other parties to communicate better ideas and convince that 10% why they should vote for someone else. PR is the way forward regardless of where you sit on the political spectrum.
Richard not very nice Tice is as slimy as the critters in the jungle.