I get what you mean about gradually increasing the stakes, going from school to half school half villain and finally to villain arcs when they're pros but that is not what Horikoshi wanted. He wanted his story to take place over the first year of school. Also i think the story flows relatively well as it is, especially because the point of some of those school arcs was: either to prepare for a villain arc or reacting after the events of a villain arc.
just because "he wanted it" doesn't mean its a good thing. This switching back and forth is what killed his manga. It went from number 1 new shonen to losing most of the original fanbase, no hype left.
I definitely agree with this, the school festival is what lost me, i could understand that being a chapter/episode but dropping the stakes for the absolute most cliche of high school plotlines across an arc made me question why i was reading if the arc and characters i care about can be derailed into tasteless fluff at any moment. Like i feel that hero killer stain should have been a harder turning point for everything, less focus on the lighter side of school after the point that we've had 3 of the best and brightest student heroes nearly brutally killed trying to walk back to the tone of "oh lol we are just normal students when we arent training" feels almost incongruous. To go off on another point i feel like one of my problems with super hero media is that so often for most of its runtime it only dreams of people maintaining the status quo, never trying to actively improve it and when the story becomes about basking in the status quo after saving it it just emboldens that textual stance.
I absolutely agree and I also hate the MHA school arcs which I gave my opinion on the post you made topromote this video. I think the best solution is to fit those arcs with the villains arc like you said, but I think a timeskip is not even needed and I’ll explain why. The training joint arc could have been done like the villain hideout arc. Make class A and B train together and bring a conflict that force them to act against the villains, and the main différence would be the presence of Shinso. Furthermore I think the hero liscence arc should have been just offscreen, but the different school characters could have been brought back by fighting mini villains in the city that leads to the league of villains, Redestro or Overhaul.
For me while they arent the top there are still stakes because they are training to be heroes so if ya fail you don't get to be a hero. Now the one with Gentel is pretty mid especially since I don't really care about Eri either so with that one its completley fair to clown on it.
@@YumesukeSutashikawatched the whole video and still have the same option. Cause here’s the problem with your criticism: 1. You compare the escalation of the story to be that of a western movie, book that quotes where one act has to have even higher stakes of the last. This isn’t a western movie nor book, this is a story from a shonen manga that doesn’t use tropes of the sort, but instead has escalation in arcs itself rather than arc to arc 2. Maybe you’re one of the few that didn’t realize this when either the first chapter or episode came out. But this is literally a series about children learning and training to be professional heroes, hence the title. There are more arcs that focus on the school than there isn’t up until the final act. 3. I get if you have a problem with that, but, respectfully, you can only really blame yourself for giving yourself your own headcanon of the series rather leaving it to the series itself
There's nothing wrong with letting the story calm down for a bit before ramping up tension. The advice you give is like demanding all pieces of music constantly get more intense as the song goes on, songs can benefit from calming down at points. Ditto for stories.
Yes I agree but not like in mha where the cool is just a cool down for the sake of it A better proper cool down is a filler episode for avatar the last airbenbender on the ember island or irohs brave soldier boy those have emotional impact and strengthen the characters a bit No so sure about deku taking a bath and singing
I think that's an oversimplification. It sounds like you're imagining a straight line upward on a graph while I'm talking about a zigzag that keeps going up. In 3 act structure, there's always points that calm down, like at the beginning of each act, but (in general) the peak intensity of act 3 > act 2 > act 1. I brought up the Harry Potter movies as an example. Each movie starts off calm, but their peaks generally keep rising with each movie. The problem with MHA is that it dedicates entire arcs where the peak is significantly lower than a previous peak. I hope that makes more sense.
No the problem is the context you are applying Mckee's ideas. Mckee is implying a straight line up. The book says "A story must not retreat to actions of lesser quality". This means either a straight line up or platueu. He explains it within the context of people watching a movie and things start to get boring/drag on after getting hooked and after the first hour and a half. He further explains the writer or film maker could not build progression. This is within the context of the second act not third act. Mckee is not talking about the overall story which can zigzag. He is talking about developments in the second act heading into the third where characters have nothing to do till the end. You take this information to apply it to mha and say the school stuff is of lesser quality due to the villain stuff having more conflict. Which is not the point of Mckee's quote or a over simplification of it. For your critique to work to would have to apply the idea to a specific arc or look at the story as a whole. You would say something along the lines of "Ida is not doing anything in the stain arc and till he fights stain"(assuming Ida did not do work study and just played around the whole time after his brother was attacked by stain). Or You go in the context of the acts of mha, the entire story. You separate UA Beginnings Rise of The Villains Saga And Final Act You would say in the Villains Saga the Villains are not building up to get stronger or be a threat. The heroes are not building up to become better heroes.
@@Bjjboxing I agree on some parts, but I don't think your interpretation is completely accurate. When he mentions the film dragging, he says "for twenty to thirty flabby minutes in the middle, you lost interest." I think complaining about 20-30 slow minutes straight in the 2nd act is a valid criticism. He also mentions how writers "give their characters lesser actions of the kind they've already done in Act One," which is also a valid criticism. "As we watch, our instincts tell us that these actions didn't get the character what he wanted in act one, therefore they're not going to get him what he wants in act two. The writer is recycling story and we're treading water." Then he says to come up with 100 scene ideas so that you never end up repeating yourself. My understanding of this is that he is criticizing repeating actions/scenes and having actions of lower quality and magnitude later in the story. Interpreting this as "McKee says a story should never cool down and be a straight line up" isn't an accurate interpretation. Furthermore, I don't think there are examples of stories that escalate like a flat line. He doesn't cite any examples for the Point of no Return section, so I think it's even more unfair to assume that he meant that. Therefore, I don't think I'm applying McKee's ideas incorrectly.
Extremely shallow criticism. When all you do is up the stakes or go to things of greater magnitude then you get the dragon ball effect. The series has to school arcs to remind us that they’re children being thrust into country ending threats. Of all the school arcs happened at once then we wouldn’t be able to appreciate that concurrent dynamic
Yeah, no. I literally said the issue could be solved by rearranging the arcs. If the current story has no "dragon ball" effect, then the rearranged story wouldn't either. Extremely short sighted comment.
What if after the Battle Trials Arc, instead of USJ Arc, there was simply a chapter where the kids go to USJ and have an uninterrupted lesson on rescues with the chapter used to do a timeskip over 2 months (meaning it shows bits of many lessons instead of only one lesson) then the Sports Festival Arc then the Provisional License Exam Arc to show the school year's end all the while every arc has a few scenes about what Stain or Shigaraki are doing (especially Shigaraki one by one recruiting the League of Villains' members)? Then the second school year could start with U.S.J. Arc followed by Forest Training Arc and Bakugou Rescue Arc then Shie Hassakai Arc then (near the end of the second school year) War Arc. 😅 I don't have all the details figured out, but would this have improved MHA's pacing? Maybe throughout the first school year there are hints of how dangerous Shigaraki and his group are, through a General Studies civilian friend of Deku coming across a crime the League committed and investigating in brief scenes for a few chapters before being murdered. Which would make Deku's dilemma later over whether to save Shigaraki or kill him more personal, since someone important to Deku is dead thanks to someone he just found out was a victim too. It's easy for Deku to dismiss the murders Shigaraki committed in canon because none were personal to him, so wouldn't this change challenge his resolve more?
I would agree, but u didnt account characterarcs. The stakes of the conflict isnt determined by the scale of destruction or domination of unnamed actors in the story, but specifically the outcome of the named characters we care about. Thats the fight between deku and bakugo was hype even thought it would be considered "low stakes" in your paradigm. But yes the school festival arc was ass.
Pro Theme of the final MHA arc is That you should put the fries in the bag. The anti theme is that Deku shouldn't put the fries in the bag. In the climax Deku puts the fries in the bag
I get what you're trying to say as yes : Going from a stakes-less school arc to a villain arc over and over is jarring, but your solution means basically we'll just have school arc after another school arc which will super boring and repetitive Not saying you're " wrong ", just pointing out the result of the alternative solution
I get what you mean about gradually increasing the stakes, going from school to half school half villain and finally to villain arcs when they're pros but that is not what Horikoshi wanted. He wanted his story to take place over the first year of school.
Also i think the story flows relatively well as it is, especially because the point of some of those school arcs was: either to prepare for a villain arc or reacting after the events of a villain arc.
just because "he wanted it" doesn't mean its a good thing. This switching back and forth is what killed his manga. It went from number 1 new shonen to losing most of the original fanbase, no hype left.
I liked the entrance exam and early school lessons but one they fought actual villain's you cant go back. The school arcs felt like filler arcs.
I definitely agree with this, the school festival is what lost me, i could understand that being a chapter/episode but dropping the stakes for the absolute most cliche of high school plotlines across an arc made me question why i was reading if the arc and characters i care about can be derailed into tasteless fluff at any moment. Like i feel that hero killer stain should have been a harder turning point for everything, less focus on the lighter side of school after the point that we've had 3 of the best and brightest student heroes nearly brutally killed trying to walk back to the tone of "oh lol we are just normal students when we arent training" feels almost incongruous.
To go off on another point i feel like one of my problems with super hero media is that so often for most of its runtime it only dreams of people maintaining the status quo, never trying to actively improve it and when the story becomes about basking in the status quo after saving it it just emboldens that textual stance.
It's rare when people actually speak on this issue
God bless you for this video
I absolutely agree and I also hate the MHA school arcs which I gave my opinion on the post you made topromote this video.
I think the best solution is to fit those arcs with the villains arc like you said, but I think a timeskip is not even needed and I’ll explain why.
The training joint arc could have been done like the villain hideout arc. Make class A and B train together and bring a conflict that force them to act against the villains, and the main différence would be the presence of Shinso. Furthermore I think the hero liscence arc should have been just offscreen, but the different school characters could have been brought back by fighting mini villains in the city that leads to the league of villains, Redestro or Overhaul.
For me while they arent the top there are still stakes because they are training to be heroes so if ya fail you don't get to be a hero. Now the one with Gentel is pretty mid especially since I don't really care about Eri either so with that one its completley fair to clown on it.
I agree. I didn't say there weren't stakes, just that the stakes were much lower and the conflict was often forced rather than natural.
It’s almost like the series named “My Hero Academia” isn’t a series that focuses on Heroes in Academia…
Oh wait
There's no way you watched the video and still typed this comment
@@YumesukeSutashikawatched the whole video and still have the same option. Cause here’s the problem with your criticism:
1. You compare the escalation of the story to be that of a western movie, book that quotes where one act has to have even higher stakes of the last. This isn’t a western movie nor book, this is a story from a shonen manga that doesn’t use tropes of the sort, but instead has escalation in arcs itself rather than arc to arc
2. Maybe you’re one of the few that didn’t realize this when either the first chapter or episode came out. But this is literally a series about children learning and training to be professional heroes, hence the title. There are more arcs that focus on the school than there isn’t up until the final act.
3. I get if you have a problem with that, but, respectfully, you can only really blame yourself for giving yourself your own headcanon of the series rather leaving it to the series itself
There's nothing wrong with letting the story calm down for a bit before ramping up tension. The advice you give is like demanding all pieces of music constantly get more intense as the song goes on, songs can benefit from calming down at points. Ditto for stories.
True. Robert Mckee is just giving bad advice or it should only apply to movies
Yes I agree but not like in mha where the cool is just a cool down for the sake of it
A better proper cool down is a filler episode for avatar the last airbenbender on the ember island or irohs brave soldier boy those have emotional impact and strengthen the characters a bit
No so sure about deku taking a bath and singing
I think that's an oversimplification. It sounds like you're imagining a straight line upward on a graph while I'm talking about a zigzag that keeps going up. In 3 act structure, there's always points that calm down, like at the beginning of each act, but (in general) the peak intensity of act 3 > act 2 > act 1. I brought up the Harry Potter movies as an example. Each movie starts off calm, but their peaks generally keep rising with each movie. The problem with MHA is that it dedicates entire arcs where the peak is significantly lower than a previous peak. I hope that makes more sense.
No the problem is the context you are applying Mckee's ideas. Mckee is implying a straight line up. The book says "A story must not retreat to actions of lesser quality". This means either a straight line up or platueu.
He explains it within the context of people watching a movie and things start to get boring/drag on after getting hooked and after the first hour and a half. He further explains the writer or film maker could not build progression. This is within the context of the second act not third act.
Mckee is not talking about the overall story which can zigzag. He is talking about developments in the second act heading into the third where characters have nothing to do till the end.
You take this information to apply it to mha and say the school stuff is of lesser quality due to the villain stuff having more conflict. Which is not the point of Mckee's quote or a over simplification of it.
For your critique to work to would have to apply the idea to a specific arc or look at the story as a whole.
You would say something along the lines of "Ida is not doing anything in the stain arc and till he fights stain"(assuming Ida did not do work study and just played around the whole time after his brother was attacked by stain).
Or
You go in the context of the acts of mha, the entire story.
You separate
UA Beginnings
Rise of The Villains Saga
And Final Act
You would say in the Villains Saga the Villains are not building up to get stronger or be a threat. The heroes are not building up to become better heroes.
@@Bjjboxing I agree on some parts, but I don't think your interpretation is completely accurate. When he mentions the film dragging, he says "for twenty to thirty flabby minutes in the middle, you lost interest." I think complaining about 20-30 slow minutes straight in the 2nd act is a valid criticism. He also mentions how writers "give their characters lesser actions of the kind they've already done in Act One," which is also a valid criticism.
"As we watch, our instincts tell us that these actions didn't get the character what he wanted in act one, therefore they're not going to get him what he wants in act two. The writer is recycling story and we're treading water."
Then he says to come up with 100 scene ideas so that you never end up repeating yourself. My understanding of this is that he is criticizing repeating actions/scenes and having actions of lower quality and magnitude later in the story.
Interpreting this as "McKee says a story should never cool down and be a straight line up" isn't an accurate interpretation. Furthermore, I don't think there are examples of stories that escalate like a flat line. He doesn't cite any examples for the Point of no Return section, so I think it's even more unfair to assume that he meant that. Therefore, I don't think I'm applying McKee's ideas incorrectly.
Extremely shallow criticism. When all you do is up the stakes or go to things of greater magnitude then you get the dragon ball effect. The series has to school arcs to remind us that they’re children being thrust into country ending threats. Of all the school arcs happened at once then we wouldn’t be able to appreciate that concurrent dynamic
Yeah, no. I literally said the issue could be solved by rearranging the arcs. If the current story has no "dragon ball" effect, then the rearranged story wouldn't either. Extremely short sighted comment.
You know what? I was gonna disagree but you are right that the placement of the school arcs are kinda iffy
I like how often the story is grounded to remind us that they're just kids
But they aren't "just kids" and its not grounded. They are barely 20 by the end and have become the greatest hero's ever.
What if after the Battle Trials Arc, instead of USJ Arc, there was simply a chapter where the kids go to USJ and have an uninterrupted lesson on rescues with the chapter used to do a timeskip over 2 months (meaning it shows bits of many lessons instead of only one lesson) then the Sports Festival Arc then the Provisional License Exam Arc to show the school year's end all the while every arc has a few scenes about what Stain or Shigaraki are doing (especially Shigaraki one by one recruiting the League of Villains' members)? Then the second school year could start with U.S.J. Arc followed by Forest Training Arc and Bakugou Rescue Arc then Shie Hassakai Arc then (near the end of the second school year) War Arc. 😅 I don't have all the details figured out, but would this have improved MHA's pacing? Maybe throughout the first school year there are hints of how dangerous Shigaraki and his group are, through a General Studies civilian friend of Deku coming across a crime the League committed and investigating in brief scenes for a few chapters before being murdered. Which would make Deku's dilemma later over whether to save Shigaraki or kill him more personal, since someone important to Deku is dead thanks to someone he just found out was a victim too. It's easy for Deku to dismiss the murders Shigaraki committed in canon because none were personal to him, so wouldn't this change challenge his resolve more?
I would agree, but u didnt account characterarcs. The stakes of the conflict isnt determined by the scale of destruction or domination of unnamed actors in the story, but specifically the outcome of the named characters we care about. Thats the fight between deku and bakugo was hype even thought it would be considered "low stakes" in your paradigm.
But yes the school festival arc was ass.
Pro Theme of the final MHA arc is That you should put the fries in the bag. The anti theme is that Deku shouldn't put the fries in the bag. In the climax Deku puts the fries in the bag
Once deku went on his own dats when the series started losing me
I get what you're trying to say as yes : Going from a stakes-less school arc to a villain arc over and over is jarring, but your solution means basically we'll just have school arc after another school arc which will super boring and repetitive
Not saying you're " wrong ", just pointing out the result of the alternative solution
and yet harry potter did it for 7 books. same with any magic boarding school series.
@@mike-m8k2n and most people shit on it now lol
@@mysmallnoman not in real life. Your glued to your screen so you think angry trannies represent normal people 😂😂😂
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