It's cause the original plan was to capture the people in the tree then burn it. She brought incendiaries with her for a reason. They could have been using plague launchers instead, but you don't see any of those. She intended to burn the tree from the beginning, her little chat just made her change the plans in the last second, which is what surprised Nathanos.
I have been horde through everything, and i feel emotionally gutted. I'm not an rp'er.... but I'm defalted towards this expac now. They've forced horde players to have essentially condoned the murder of innocent civilians and possibly children. I'm just disgusted. It sucks bc now alliance have the justification they need for battle and as a horde I'm just deflated and don't even want to keep playing.
Sylv may have given the order, but the horde lit the torches... like how are we supposed to have "pride" in our faction now? Legit depressed over this. I'll admit i'm too emotionally invested in this.
I still have pride in the Horde, and will always fight for the Dark Lady, this is war, and destroying one or more of the enemy races hope, is simply amazing. FOR THE DARK LADY!
Not just that, but Slyvanas is willing to kill anyone who isn't on her side or doesn't follow her orders. Evident by her killing the undead who wanted to re-unite with their living families, spreading the plague everywhere, and sacrificing her own troops just to win some momentary advantage. So even if a leader stood against her, it'd have to be all or nothing. Just imagine Baine speaking out against this and how quickly Slyvanas would either shut him down or have him replaced as High Chieftain by someone who will follow her or worse kill all the Tauren.
I think this is direct towards Keor, but regardless, if players like me and Keor who want to be horde aren't satisfied with the narrative direction and have spent years playing the same faction we enjoy, with races we like and aesthetics we like, what makes you think 1) faction changing would be fun? and 2) that the coward at the end of your comment is helpful?
spencer craig right after she uses the blight on both sides, but don't worry, she's not evil and the Horde totally isn't a disposable tool in her eyes.
well that helped them retreat and made the town useless for Alliance. We always knew Sylvanas represents first the Forsaken and then the rest of the Horde but still she hates Alliance. If someone is gonna react its gonna be Saurfang after the Lordaeron fight.
spencer craig I'm pretty sure that the Nightborn will have something to say as well. They may have beef with the Night Elves but they're not murderers. Is this the kind of world that the Nightborn and High Mountain Tauren set out to see? These allied races, and the rest of the Horde have their eyes wide open now.
She burned the tree because of the hope line. She wants to destroy the hope of the alliance. Still very much not morally grey, downright evil. And that elf is apparently the night elf who was directing our efforts on darkshore, Delaryn I believe is her name.
Pick up on the other clues in the book and the recent comics. She's not gonna stop with the Alliance. She wants to kill everything. The void warned us. She won't stop until the whole world is dead.
Thanks for letting me share your experience. I saw it twice already, but truly got goosebumps watching it with you. A horde friend whispered me "I'm sorry about the tree". They are boosting an alliance character because of it.
Ben van der Riet How was ANY of the horde okay with that, as soon as that happened the rest of the horde should turned to sylvanas and the forsaken and said, “you guys are on your own!”
It was an unsanctioned world tree that never received the blessing of the aspects, and it was an alliance only tree. Teldrasil was a false flag operation in order to justify taking away the forsaken's gods given right to bear blight.
I never played Horde out of RP faction pride, but allow me to say this. I feel you friend. That's nothing comparable, but there was one time I was not willing to do something in the game as Alliance. Turns out it was the introductory experience for the Jade Forest. After the Horde is defeated in the southern shore, Admiral Rogers orders the troops to fire on peons swimming to shore to surrender. That wasn't player action, but it was a cutscene. Felt pretty bad. That questline Horde have to go through though ? Much worse. Just get it over with. Nobody's gonna hold it to you.
Varok Saurfang would rape a furbolg baby if Sylvanas told him to. "Honor, heroes, no matter how dire the battle - Never forsake it. Unless your warchief is the Banshee Queen btw"
Saurfang is being forced to choose between loyalty and honor. These are complex decisions. Loyalty relies on faith. Faith is a weapon yielded most effectively by the despot. Where Sylv is chaotic evil, I see parts of the alliance going lawful evil with the light. The alliance players will/should have these same moral challenges.
It was a war crime. She knew that the only thing left in the tree were civilians and she fired on it anyway. I don't know if you've played the alliance quest for this week but you have to save like 900+ people in two minutes. It's impossible to save all of them. Sylv is just as tyrannical as Garrosh was.
Destroying a city out of spite when it represent no opposition whatsoever is in fact a War Crime. For a similarity, I suggest you get acquainted with a beautiful medival town called Dresden. For a quick background it was a useless target on an allied raid hit list during WWII, and served as test subject for phosphorous bombs, which are the ancestor of the legendary vietnam napalm. Town burned a full 7 days. For nothing. Absolutely nothing was accomplished. It was just an Axis city. Allied War Crimes were of course never judged on that scale. I wonder if Sylvie will be called to account for this one.
Even though I've played Alliance since vanilla, I always felt a bit of sympathy towards Sylvanas and really enjoyed her story. She did her best to defend her people in Silvermoon and continued to do what she felt was right for the Forsaken even if her choices were "morally questionable". However, now she's gone completely off the deep end. She's turning in to everything she despised about Arthas and is killing for the sake of killing. I've mained a night elf druid since early BC and watching my favorite Alliance city burn has dried up any sympathy I once had for Sylvanas. I've never been much of a Jaina fan, but after seeing both of the Warbringer videos, I have a feeling this xpac is going to flip flop my feelings about both of these characters. For the Alliance!
Yes, blame the character who is being written like shit, don't blame the writers for actually ruining the character, typical Alliance Fanboy reasoning.
Arthas was better than Sylvanas, he started his journey trying to protect his people, and he lost his way. He continued building the scourge army to defend Azeroth against the Legion, Sylvanas is wholly selfish. She used to be my favorite character as well, it's hard to watch Blizz drag her character through the mud like they did with Garrosh.
JonnyC 289 i definitely think they nailed her character, but what happened in that cinematic was the opposite of good storytelling going into BFA. It ended the faction war before it started, she has signed her death sentence. I wonder what kinda mount she'll drop.
I'm really hoping the plan was to outrage all of us so we're relieved when she hopefully turns around soon... Because if this is the lead up to Siege of Orgrimmar Banshee Boogaloo I will be really disappointed
Like what? The Night Elves were making an Azerite-Thermonuclear Bomb and were planning to nuke Orgrimmar, so she killed them? Unless they retcon the shit out of this cinematic and pretend it didn't happen, she can't be redeemed. She's crazy, and she needs to go down. Listen to Uncle Iroh.
I don't see how they could do that with out it looking like an after thought, or a oh we upset people quick lets make an excuse for her, either way it would be a twist that wouldn't make sense
best comment in the forums atm Okay so here's what happens at the end of BFA: -We fight a Sylvanas powered up by the Spleen of N'Zoth. -We fight her into submission. -Jaina and Genn tell Anduin to "dismantle the Horde" -He totally doesn't. -She goes to trial for her crimes. -Wrathion gets her out of prison and teleports her to the Lightforged Draenor.
This hurt. Sylvanas was one of my favorite characters, I loved the morally grey aspects of her. The parts of her that were wrong, flawed, but that were compelling and complex, that were interesting. This isn't interesting. It's cheap, it's Blizzard attempting to find the next big baddy and setting their sights on a beloved and already-almost-there character and stripping away her complexities to make her one dimensional for the sake of their war-boner. The only positive I can see from this is that there's probably going to be a Jaina versus Sylvanas duel in our futures and moon goddess above that will be the most epic thing to see in cinematic form. No bets on how that ends, I don't want to get my hopes up either way.
You mean how morally grey she was when she ordered the plague upon the people of Gilneas? Or how she chose to raise new Forsaken from the corpses of slain humans? This has been Sylvanas all along and Varian has warned us about her since MoP. I think people's fandom clouded their judgement of Sylvanas' character.
Bullet Witch Er she’s the exact same characters she’s always been. Threw a temper tantrum when Alleria didn’t want to become Undead. Betrayed Garithos for nothing yes he was a terrible person but she had no legitimate reason to turn on him other than wanting power for herself and then people wonder why the Alliance didn’t accept the Forsaken... created the blight, used it on Gilneas when even Garrosh ordered her not to for no reason. Where is the part of her character where she is different to this ever? It doesn’t exist.
Vareesa Lewis, not Aleria. Get those Windrunner sisters the right way round. And I agree Bullet. Sylvanas is my favourite character, she's complex but has a set of morales she stands by, this for me was out of character. She's evil, scheming and self serving, but absolutely not impulsive. She's patient and plays the long game so this was really disappointing to see
Yeah I was heading to do the quests and died to a raid group killing her. Kind of brought me right out of the story but I kept going. I was joking to my friends, "Well looks like we lost, time to refund the xpac since I already know what happens."
Coop Shanks, yup. Having the racial bosses in multiple spots does break the immersion. Would have loved for the expansions to be better linked together and cause the leaders to appear and disappear as required. Think about a certain quest chain in Nagrand involving Garrosh. Now imagine an alliance raid upon Orgrimmar, they battle their way to the thone room, only to find a note upon Thrall's throne. "Sorry, I missed you. Visiting Grandma for milk and cookies. Will be back soon."
Exactly. Especially tauren druid and night elf druid has been at peace for long time, moonglade is a proof. They worked together during Silithus war and during Legion expansion as well. They casted away their faction differences and worked together, now they go and burn the night elf home and trying to kill Arch Druid?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ My opinion, I already posted somewhere else but I find it really important. Teldrassil is the Crown of Azeroth, and it being destroyed just like that is awful and makes you filled with anger. We all know it's obvious that this will come back to bite Sylvanas in the ass but what my theory is.... I believe that Elune is going to do something.. something she has never done before. Remember when Ysera died? Elune made an appearance for the first time (not physically). Teldrassil, something important to the night elves and is connected to Tyrande and Malfurion, will not go unnoticed by Elune. She's going to do something that either helps the Night Elves rest from agony or perhaps even do something to Sylvanas. I am being very vague because I don't know exactly what Elune can do but she MUST do something, it only makes sense. Besides that, Captain Summermoon constantly pleads for help from Elune. And adding on to that, the temple of the moon is on fire. That is TECHNICALLY an attack on Elune. Rant over, I'm just so angry at what Sylvanas has done. To be honest, I would've not been mad if it was a third party that burnt Teldrassil. I am a Night Elf lover/main and so maybe I am being a bit too biased. Thnx for reading!!
They weren't trying to build sympathy but instead showing you parallels. She faced what happened and she had nothing but hate and vengence in her heart for Arthas. On the flip side, she has just did the same thing. She knows she did the same thing. She has gone through her life and every time she has hoped she has failed and others died leaving nothing but hate and anger in her cold dead heart. She now goes out and does the same thing again... and instead of her expecting the elves to lose hope like she lost hope, instead... the commander at her feet showed her pitty. She didn't see Sylvanas was right. That life was hopeless. She went through the same thing Sylvanas did and still had hope. The moment she looks down and had that soft smile as she wiped the commander's tear, she was relishing in her victory. She knows for once someone feels the pain that she herself did. SHe knows that it caused her to give up hope and this will lend to that. But when she got pitty instead, she knew she had to go further and her rage reflared and she attacked at the shock of her own commanders. Notice when she wipes the tear from the Elf commander's face she leaves her face smuged just like Sylvanas, continuing the parallel. Sympathy... There is no sympathy for the queen of the damned. She gets her victory as she stands alone. All the horde leaving her to stand by herself and watch the horrors she inflicted... her hope to kill the hope of others. But that final shot, the fire in her eyes, The look on her face. That is rage burning inside her made into reality. She is insane with grief and anger and should be pitted. But feel no sympathy for her. her heart is now too black for that.
Sylvanas windrunner used to be one of my most favorite characters along side Varian, Thrall, & Vol'jin, and I'm a retired veteran of wow, had max characters on both sides, in mop. Now Activision blizzard has taking the last popular character remaining in wow, and made me hate it, thanks dumbass Activision blizzard, oh how I miss the days of Chris Metzen being in charge of wow. 😞
They made a villain, Illidan, to become one of the best heroes of Legion. I don't think they will make her full bad, i think the story will become a redemption one.
the burning of teldrassil, i never saw sylvanas in that cinematic, i just saw evil, she hates life :(((( shes essentially arthas when he became the lich king
Yeah, that was an act of a toddler throwing a tantrum and not a military leader following out a plan. What she heard struck a cord and it was triggered because she knows its true, she has a deep seething hatred for life, because hers was ripped away for nothing.
He's not being theoretical. The Forsaken have plague launchers, they could have smoked everyone out, gotten more troops from it and captured the tree without destroying it. But they didn't bring plague launchers, they brought catapults with incendiaries. Burning down the tree was always the plan, just doing it with all the civilians inside is what changed.
FredrickTesla exactly, and tbh I think if garrosh was still alive (I hate him don’t worry) he would of smoked out people before burning it down, he may of been evil but he wouldn’t just do any of that in a snap, he would want people to fear him.
What I paid attention to in this video was your scars. But whom am I to say this aloud on a public forum, but looks like you've had your own tree burnt down, but fought against it, and now shines through, better than ever. You're such an inspiration, Hazel!
I want to put some things up front. I am a Woman, I play a Blood Elf Main, I alt occasionally on a Gnome and I Bleed Banshee Blue. That being Said, I felt punched in the gut by this Cinematic. it was Very Visceral for me. I identify with Sylvanas' Brand of suffering, I feel for her, I have had some bad stuff happen in my life, that I feel like walks pretty close to the Banshee Queen. having your spirit torn from your body and being forced to watch all you loved and Fought for die. being nothing but pain and rage. reaching out to those you were distanced from, and having it come back to bite you, to have that hope ripped away by those who were supposed to love you unconditionally. who now revile what and who you are, because you were so changed they can not even recognize you. I get it. I am also a Former United States Marine. with her Feelings in general, I generally agree. with her plans, I generally agree. I was shocked! at first that she said to burn the Tree. I was shocked. I totally thought Queen Greymain was gonna burn it! Stunned out of my mind that the Obvious came true. for a moment or two, I questioned Sylvanas Motives, I will admit it, yes even I, wavered under the Choice my warchief made. as a Horde player, I understood, I think this is a cool and Calculated statement she made, She knew she had not crushed the night elf hope which is what she set out to do when she gives us the quest in the undercity, and that they would indeed "Fight us Every step of the way", which was something said in another quest leading up to this point, and that we had not won, as Captain Summermoon says we did. we did not win the Tree, we had yet to fight for the Tree. yet to hold the Tree. how many Horde would die, to take the Tree? how many Horde would die, to hold the Tree against Attempts to Liberate it? I think Burning the Tree, was the least loss of Horde Lives, Sylvanas could manage. it was an Absolutely correct Move, made by a General, Calculating the Weight of loss. the price of keeping the Tree, Vs reaching her goals, but without that loss of HORDE Life to hold or take the tree. as a Sylvanas Fan, it took me a moment to reach that point, because it looks for a second like this was a knee jerk reaction to Summermoon taunting her, but it wasn't. it was a well planned, though spontaneous correction of tactics. Killing Malfurion didn't work, taking Dark shore did not work. Sweeping in, did not kill the hope of the night elves, but burning the Tree Does. I also think, the Mirror of Sylvanas and Summermoon's deaths, puts Saurfang and Sylvanas Closer than I would like. I think Saurfang is Suicidal, and trying to get himself killed to join his boy in the Afterlife with the ancestors. I think, She may have been trying, to Kill herself here. not her body, not a death like Saurfang hopes for, but the death of who she was. I think she was trying to Kill The Ranger General of Silvermoon. The one who lost to Arthas. the one who was a fool, the part of her that hoped. She gives the Night Elf the Release of Death, for sure, which she was denied! She believes she is sending the Night elf to her Loved ones. I think this was Sylvanas the Warchief of the Horde, the Banshee Queen, Winner of the war, and she was trying to Kill Sylvanas Windrunner, Ranger General of Silvermoon and her hope, by killing Summermoon, who I think Reminded her of who she was. Destroy the last hope Sylvanas herself has for That life. Saurfang wants an honorable Death for the horde, Sylvanas wants the Peace of death, she wants her hope to die, so she no longer feels the pain hope brings. Vereesa gave her hope and ripped it away. Hurting her fresh. As did Alleria, but that was The Ranger General's hope, not the warchief's hope. I think the story may have been too nuanced here, for some who missed the nuance, which is possibly what's going on with Twitter and the explosion of outrage. Sylvanas is a Subtle, and Tactically efficient, War hardened, Battle Winning General. this Absolutely fits her Character, this absolutely fits her to a T. I am Still For the Dark Lady, I am still Victory for Sylvanas! I am still for the Horde, as a Horde Player, yes, burn that shit burn it! now, As an alliance player, because I play both sides. yes, I was devastated. I had no idea that 2 minutes and 30 seconds was a timer to save 1000 burning people! I was trying to save as many as I could which turned out to be 10!! which drove the Completionist OCD in me up the Sealing! I was devastated that I could not save more, that my home was burning down around my gnomish ears, because Blizz chose Both of my favorite Cities to Burn to the Ground! Teldrasil and The Undercity. Teldrasil was my Alliance home, I started Vanilla as a Night Elf and I would never again be able to hop roof to roof or sit in my nightwells or hang out at the Bear shaped bank. I watched people burn, and my home burn and I was devastated afterward. So much waist. So much that was wrong with it. I was broken, my heart absolutely fell. I think Blizz did An Amazing Job! My God! to make me feel All of these things at the same time Essentially and be on both sides, and sooooo torn on my response with the only differrence being which toon I played and who's side I was on. they did a phenomenal Job! I was stunned Anew! I think this was great and I can not wait to see more. this Story telling is insane!
The only thing this cinematic did was tear apart the horde, while making alliance players unite to fight in BfA. Those people that think "MY HORDE CAN DO NO WRONG" can seriously go die and be with Sylvanas in (her "oh so good") death. I'd much rather be with Saurfang; he was the only thing salvageable in this hot garbage of a questline.
That was ages ago, in that scenario the attack was unprovoked. Yeah and now the Alliance are trying to gather it instead, I wonder why... is it because the Alliance are a bunch of hypocrites? Yep.
You must be simple minded. allow me to put this in a way you will understand. Undead Lady kill doggy son Undead lady poison land doggy owned Undead lady makes human death camps undead lady commit many war crimes doggy track undead lady doggy get revenge on undead lady in stormheim undead lady burn civilians in a giant tree undead lady commit more war crimes simple enough for your idiotic brain to understand or are you just as dumb as the rest of your misbegotten kind.
My guess is that the battle will continue until the final raid of BFA then Sylvanas goes mad with power and the horde and alliance will have to team up to take her down. She’ll probably kill saurfang or another important horde character so the horde will be justified in teaming up with Anduin and his crew. Siege of Orgrammar/Garrosh 2.0.... yay!!!!! *sigh*
They will milk this. She will turn all evil and be forced out of the horde. Probably escape to a northrend like place. Next xpac comes out and she is the big bad of the second patch, we go to kill her but find out she needed a large undead army to resist the void(dark ranger class comes out possibly). Then xpac after that we help her and her undead army defeat the void and she sacrifices her life cuz blizzard.
This just sucked. Either we have a Garrosh 2.0 on our hands, or Blizzard pulls a "oh no, she wasn't really evil, it was X mystical force that made her do all that!" Neither make me very excited to go out and hold my Horde banner on Zandalarar.
As a horde player of 13 years with very few alliance alts made only to kill time, this whole moment in time sucks. Because I'm surrounded by players who LOVE the direction of Slyvanas for whatever reason, alliance players who are using this to not just call out the horde but basically say that horde players are a problem because we HAVE TO BE IN SUPPORT OF THIS. But I just want to play the best race in the game; trolls. I can't do that on alliance, and it's not my fault I hate this narrative direction. Vol'jin's time as Warchief was cut too short, sandwiching him we had Garrosh who was a no nothing young adult with no life or leadership experience who had no business being in that position, and came into evil actions, and on the other side we have this monster. I guess 3/5 Warchiefs are just going to be warmongering for whatever reason... I know there are a lot of complaints about green Jesus Thrall and whatever, but at least he wasn't this.
I'm Alliance and I agree, you guys have gotten the short end here. Seriously. Vol'jin never got to do *anything* of note as Warchief... and that sucks. I was actually kinda interested in seeing how they'd use Sylvannas, and I (mostly) liked her use in Legion... but this just... *facepalm* I just do not understand this. At all. That said I've been skeptical of the whole "ra ra faction war" thing since the announcement of BFA so I guess I shouldn't be surprised I'm displeased with the direction. It's just sad.
i dont get this guy, people has been waiting for sylvanas's leadership for years and now they complain because she is being hard with her enemies? what would you expect from her, something like "i'm not going to blame you for what happened to me"...BULLSHIT. Hope that sylvanas destroy anyone who steps in her way, even horde if that is necessary. it has never been about faction, it is about her.
Nope, this one was better. Why? Because it made us all get involved emotionally. Jaina one had a beautiful song but this made us all feel like it was a real life event.
I'm not so sure. Hers suggests she's going to be a war criminal turning around to her father's evil way of thinking. It looks like a metaphor for WWII, where it wasn't so much good vs. evil, but evil vs. cartoonishly evil. There's enough of that crap in the real world. I won't play a game in that kind of setting.
This shows why Sylvanas has been an continues to be so basic.............. if not for the fanboys and girls liking her sexy meets crazy she would of long ago been dead. EVERYTHING the night elf said to her is true. She is just a scared forsaken too afraid to die, and to consumed by hatred to lead anyone or anything. Loved the fact that Blizzard went full in and said yup THIS is the crazy villain, HOWEVER I am 99% sure Blizzard will pull some old god's bullshit instead of allow Sylvanas to be the full on crazy hateful lil emo elf she has become.....
Bad story telling I've been horde for years and this upsets me - I don't know why the writers decide blue good red bad instead of the moral grey area that's been consistent throughout WoW. Whoever was in charge of this expansion I imagine is a hardcore alliance player.
Gray area? Bro, the horde was formed to hunt draenei in exchange for power, with kil'jaden pulling the strings trough gul'dan. And you would think that upon learning this they would settle down and not start more shit up, but you'd be wrong, terribly wrong. Your faction is a clusterfuck of retarded leaders doing retarded shit, and when they're not starting a war against the natives of a planet they fled to because they destroyed their own, they´re dying like dogs being struck by a random mob in a fight against the legion and proceeding to appoint more retarded leaders. Sauerfang? No. Cow-person? No. Bitch Sylvanas? YES, good idea retarded troll, no wonder the other races EVOLVED from trolls. "Hur dur, I'm a horde player but I don't like what the writers are doing, I thought that the red banner and all the history of aggression were just a big coincidence" Yeah. And I joined the kkk, but 'm so fucking surprised that all the other 3 members are racist as fuck. Give me a break mate, no one chooses horde expecting to be the good guys.
Lucas Kuster Ribeiro actually (yes I’m late ik) vol’jin heard the whispers from the jailer himself to make sylvanas warcheif, sylvanas had it all planned since legion, making deals with demons and even trapping holy angels chicks for the jailers bidding. So it wasn’t vol’jins fault.
If you haven't been told yet, the dying elf is a specific elf. She is Derlyn Summermoon who was an NPC out at Lordanel. I think her last name was Summermoon.
Honestly this could be part of the longest con by the old gods, all starting with the fall of the lich king, sylvanas killed herself and went to hell, but hat if what she saw was actually the old gods, the same old gods that told vol'jin to make sylvanas warchief, the same old gods that had once before corrupted a world tre but maybe couldnt do it with this one so pushed sylvanas to burn it and is now going to use sylvanas and possibly jaina as puppets! or maybe ol' syllly is just cray cray
The world tree was already corrupted. It wasnt as powerful as the original because the dragons didnt give their blessing. Which caused corruption in the tree.
Sylv is as batshit crazy as she always was. I don't know why people are acting like Blizzard just changed her character. She's always been Forsaken first, Horde second.
Sylv is as batshit crazy as she always was. I don't know why people are acting like Blizzard just changed her character. She's always been Forsaken first, Horde second.
The thing about people believing this is out of character for Sylvannas is not wrong. In the past she has proven to be ruthlessly pragmatic in her approach for Forsaken and to some degree The Horde's success. In stark contrast, this just seems like she is just simply angry. IMO it's way too early to be too upset lore-wise. I'm on the "just wait and see where this goes" side of the fence. Instead of being upset, I am more intrigued than I've ever been about the lore going into BFA. Depending on how this story arc is resolved, this could be one of the most interesting expansions or the worst ever.
She intended to capture teldrassil and realized that the night elves would always try to rebel so she decided instead of having the trublesome elves on her hands to burn down the tree which was their "hope".
The need for security and strength I understand. The need for sureness of purpose and willingness to make the hard decision I understand. This was not war, this was murder, a war crime of unforgiveable magnitude. Obduran@windrunner Tauren warrior of Azeroth
Hobo, I know that book, but still... don't you know what they say? there are no rules in love neither in war. as for me, I really like these events even though, from the alliance nelf is my favourite. yet, finally a content about war. about real war. can't wait to see what will happen, but it is already awesome!
neardaRk Genuinely glad you are enjoying the content, I just wish I was. IMO its just the same song and dance with forced faction conflict we've seen before. Syl is now served up as Garrosh 2.0. Storylines so good, they'll keep remaking them!
She was right when she said she cannot kill hope. It dawned on Sylvanas that it is a necessity to break hope in order to secure victory for the Horde. Invasion was not an option anymore.
It's just not the way I think the story should have gone. But that's just my opinion. Would have been MUCH smarter if she had the intent, didn't do it, but then something did it anyway so we still had to fight. Dunno. I just don't think I'll be playing for the Horde in the next expansion... unless they try and retcon it or something. That wasn't morally grey... that was genocide.
There are two points to Sylvanas that have been getting worked on over the years; - She wants to save her "People" - She has ALWAYS been a very straightforward character. Point A to Point B, no time for additional worries. We saw it in War 3, and we have seen it time and again in the WoW storyline. They do *attempt* to give her a little sympathy during the Arthas scene, but really all it is doing is re-enforcing the fact that she has a Very specific goal of saving The Forsaken. So when Vol'jin gave her the leadership of the Horde and all its resources, it was essentially giving a child your credit card. She is now pretty much free to push for a world where the Forsaken can thrive, which of course means death on a large scale - since all other methods have been taken from her. Again, not because she is "Evil", although (as intended by the story team) her actions above would make anyone hate her, but because that is the Essence of the character and always has been; Get your goal no matter what the cost is.
Literally everyone turned into a Forsaken by the Lich King had their entire humanity ripped out of their body. Every Forsaken is capable of doing what Sylvanas did. Why would an Undead character NOT burn down a WORLD TREE out of spite and to prove a point??? I'm cracking up at you saying that not every Forsaken is destroying things like her. They're ALL capable of doing that. They're FORSAKEN.
The night elf is named Delaryn Summermoon and is a commander, sylvanas was ment to invade darnassus and not burn it down, but as the commander told sylvanas that she could never kill hope, the warchief wanted to prove her wrong and by so burning the tree instead of invading it!
I chose the alliance because Horde was already too evil leaning for me, but now? I know the Horde isn't just Sylvanas, but Horde players have every right to be upset; and as an alliance player I'm disappointed the antagonist is just a cheap villain.
She isn't cheap, IMO. She's a horrifyingly realistic narcissistic sociopath dictator. Garrosh was written cartoonish and inconsistently . Sylvanus has been going this direction the entire time we've known her.
I think Sylvanas had an epiphany when speaking with the night elf. She realized that just taking Teldrassil wouldn't be enough to deter the Alliance. She burned Teldrassil to burn hope, destroy the alliances will to fight. Now can this backfire, oh yeah, will it? Probably. Was she not in a great emotional state to make that decision? Maybe. But you can see when the night elf says you cannot defeat hope a lightbulb goes off in Sylvanas' head. It does create quite a plot hole for horde druids, maybe even the whole Tauren race in terms of why they fight for someone willing to go that far.
It's morally unfair, but guys do you think that wars haven't killed innocents in real life? War is pain, not a joke and Sylvanas knew that. She lost her life although she tried to save that mother with her child and she did't make the difference. However Tyrande decided to turn back to Stormwind without helping, for me that was morally gray too. Sylvanas fought for her people and she died, Tyrande didn't give a **ck of her people (WHERE IS MY HUSBAND?) Sorry for my bad english >_
Honestly....I think the lore team just messed up BIG TIME. When you have a game based around two factions that are neither "good" nor "bad" your writing has to be as neutral as possible. They completely made the Horde for this next xpac the bad guys. So far, terrible job.
Its a war dude... there is no good or evil only power and those that wish to seek it. Even in real war like ww1 and 2 both sides killed countless civilians in bombing runs etc. You have to destory the moral to cripple the other side. Everyones mad blah blah blah just you wait jania will kill even more horde civilans in an attack
You can't make story about the war (faction war is a base for Warcraft) with two good sides, if that was the case there would eventualy be truce. When one side is "bad", war never ends and Horde players should accept the fact they play the evil faction and go along with it.
Your opinions ofc. BUT pretty much the majority of the community agrees its just a terrible direction lore-wise so, I'll just leave it at that. Funny thing is most of the complaints are coming from Horde players.
i just sfeel like most of yall are reading the this first chapter of BFA and kicking off without letting the story be told... id find everyone point would have more clout if this was then end of and expansion.. not the start. though these are blizz, they always ALWAYS whine and bitch
That "specific elf" was Captain Delaryn Summermoon, head of the Darnassus City Guard. She is the primary NPC for the Alliance on their side of this event.
Shall the Alliance capture Sylvanas, after both sides losing many lives? Then a stealth team of loyal Horde free her from the Stockades & take her to an alternate Azeroth where she can continue her plans. I shall call it Warchief of Azeroth (WoA). Please hire me Blizzard for my original ideas.
Yeah, no. If they make a mockery reenactment of the Trial, I'll be so pissed I might well quit. Well not really, I've spent 14 years playing the fucking game and as sad of a thing it might be to say, it's part of my life to the point I can't see myself do without it. Even if I don't play "a lot" by gamer standards. But still, that would worsen that love hate relationship that's been going on for me for a few years.
WRO exactly, and it was that kind of stupid convoluted claptrap that made me stop playing WoW when warlords came out. Garrosh should have been executed on the spot and the people of both Horde and Alliance move on. The burning legions return was more than enough to move on to and without that Garrosh alternate timeline clusterfook. And now they give us another Garrosh? WTF! I sas so happy when Voljin was made warchief. It proved that the Horde was not Just about orcs and Voljin was strong and wise. But then Blizzard kills him and Varian who had grown so much and risked everything, in part having faith in his son, only to die Anduin brocken by both fathers death and the betrayel of the horde whom he championed so vehemently to the alliance.... Now this? War or no there are lines you do not cross. The razing of a city killing women children and wounded is just wrong. The Orcs fight with honor the Tauren cherish nature. The blood elves do not crave this sort of wanton destruction lest we be as Arthas and his scourge who destroyed our city and ffs even trolls would not commit such an atrocity. Yeah, forsaken feel nothing but THE HORDE IS NOT ONLY FORSAKEN!!! FOR THE HORDE MEANS ALL HORDE RACEA NOT THE EVIL BLOODLUST OF ONE TWISTED UNDEAD RACE! The horde should be rid of the scourge born abominations for this and past trespasses against all lest we forget the devilry commited in Northrend! THE HORDE MUST BE CLEANSED OF THE FORSAKEN BLIGHT!
When I started doing the War of Thorns I had a little feeling that horde is the evil guy here. After seeing this I completely feel like Horde is really evil and just destroying stuff.. And I'm a horde druid😐
I'm glad blizzard did this, all the Sylvanas apologists can't squirm away from this one. She has always been this evil and heinous but they've managed to rationalise it away in their twisted little minds. Genocide on a whim. This is your Warchief.
I’m not planning on ever switching factions, but this is the most ashamed I’ve ever been to be apart of the Horde. We have had awful choices in leaders lately. I want Vol’jin back.
Apparently the elf is Delaryn, the sentinel captain who the Alliance was working with during the war of thorns. I wasn’t sure because the voices are different, but when you do the Horde side, you see her body on the beach
If they kill Sylvanas, Azeroth will be destroyed by the Void Sylvanas is the Void worst Enemy because the Void can't corrupt the Undead, so i still believe is something behind this with Queen Azshara
Bolvar, Calia Menethil, the entire DK class, Odyn's Stormforged and the rest of the non-infected titan-forged, all scoff. Sylvanas is pointless in the scheme of things.
Lore regarding Necrolytes seems to contradict that, mate... I've seen undead corrupted by the void, i've also seen undead corrupted by fel energy. Did you pull that "undead are incorruptible" lore right out of your ass? Here's something you need to consider, necrolytes are necromancers who use the power of the void to perform necromancy... So if death magic, and void magic can mix and affect eachother... Then they can both corrupt eachother. Not only that, but Arthas regularly mixed void and death frequently... it's even shown in this goddamn cinematic.
S/He is not the only one saying that. It's been a commonly discused hipotesis that the undead are immune to the void's corruption. A lot of people defend that point by going back to WotLK: The undead of the scourge were the only ones that could gather Saronite, Yogg'Saron's blood withouth (apparently, atleast) going crazy (players can too tho). I find that hipotesis pretty... weak; i don't like it, to be honest.
Remember the book? Sylvanas tought that Anduin wants to replace her with Calia. The possibility of losing a kingdom isnt realy a tolerable thing. + The tree got a ton of azerite
Captain Summermoon (the night elf) was the resistance leader and kind of pissed off Sylvanas. If you watch the Horde follow-up to the cinematic, Sylvanas says that she didn't foresee this being the outcome (her plan was to occupy Teldrassil), but when Summermoon told her that she couldn't kill hope (as in, the night elves will fight to reclaim Teldrassil), it was in that instant that she decided that burning it would be the pragmatic solution (Teldrassil is not a very strategic location to occupy, so simply razing the city is easier), and got some satisfaction knowing that Summermoon's last moments alive would be watching her home burn. Evil. But certainly not a temper tantrum (she yelled because, IMO, Blightcaller didn't think that was her actual command; remember, he has very little regard for the living, too). I certainly hope they use this as a means to build up a plot twist character redemption for Sylvanas. I had a weird daydream of the N'zoth encounter... *prelude is that N'Zoth fully reveals its hand after you kill Azshara, prompting the Horde and Alliance to come together to journey to Ny'alotha, so Genn, Anduin, Nathanos, Saurfang, Sylvanas, Mekkatorque, et al are present during the N'Zoth encounter* As you fight N'Zoth, he randomly mind controls players (as Old Gods are wont to do), and at a certain point (1% HP; the end of the encounter, and roll the Obligatory Awesomesauce Cinematic™), N'Zoth gains enough power to dominate everyone's will (players and heroes), except for Sylvanas, so Sylvanas goes full banshee and utterly obliterates N'Zoth to prevent herself from being dominated again. In that moment, she realizes that she can still feel compassion and that not only was she defending herself, but all life. Or Blizzard just quits and has Sylvanas take possession of some random part of N'Zoth and becomes Garrosh 2 Banshee Boogaloo.
Sylvanas: "This is war" Delaryn: "No, this is hatred" Reality: "No, this - is an efficient way to take out potential enemies" As Sylvanas said, this actually IS war... check your morals at the door.
Sylvanas knows what it’s like to have all hope taken from her. Hope, to her, is pointless. Her whole goal was to take their hope. That’s why she wanted to take over the tree. She realized that’s not what they feared. They feared it being destroyed. So she ordered for it to be burnt to destroy their hope.
The elf she was talking to was the captain (her name escapes me right now) that you would be working with during the Alliance side of those quests and World Quests. Near the end of Part 2 of that quest chain, you can see her wounded on the beach at one point.
Hazel, remember that she has a purpose, she is needed as warchief because Vol'jin saw something that we dont know. So i choose to fight for her whatever she may do, and I must say that she is right, this is war. I dont think they are gonna kill her off, she will be redeemed. How? I dont know, but i trust Vol'jin and as we all know; He speaks for the Horde. (Though i mostly play alliance xD)
I remember on the cinematic were sylvanas was placed as the new warchief, Baine Bloodhoof (Tauren leader) was visibly distraught when she got the tittle warchief, it wouldnt be a long shot if taurens start rebelling against the ideologies of the horde, even the orcs arnt so happy with sylvanas' decisions, during the last quest in darkshore where Saurfang takes a cheap shot against Malfurion, he actually lets him live even though Sylvanas said take his head off. They are definitely trying to build rage against Sylvanas.
Sylvanas doesn't need your redemption. Can't wait for Stormwind becoming the next capital city for the Forsaken. Sylvanas will save Azeroth from the Void.
On this day, we horde are not made up of our Warchief alone! This day, we Horde stand together! Let this not make our bonds relinquish to the Alliance. Let us stand together still even in the midst of crisis! Let us not loose hope in our Horde while we have a hopeless and honorless warchief!!! We must stand together! Fuck Sylvannas, were moving forward!!! FOR THE HORRRDDEEE!!!!
That elf, was Delaryn Summermoon. You did the world quests/plot with her that built up to this moment. aswell as the garrison work that others stated below.
As someone who has played horde post cataclism quest chains of Tirisfal, Silverpine forest, Southshore, Arathi Highlands, West Plaguelands, Wrathgate chain quest (WotLK), Stormehin and the horde pre expansion event to the end (in beta), this is Sylvannas in her purest state, she has shown her 'crazy murderer' way in those quest chains, more than once. Her enemies have always been any living thing which are not forsaken, and she don't give a shit about the rest of the horde (which she left aside in Tormenheim, in order to follow her own goals, instead of help against the Legion). Now, she wanted to kill Malfurion in order to remove hope from their enemies, when she failed in remove that hope, even whith Malfurion supposely dead, she decided to go a step further, and burn the tree, she wants everyone to lose hope, their worst enemies first, yes, but for her, and in the end, anyone not a forsaken is her enemy.
Sylvanas sees herself as the savior of her people, a great unifier, and a bringer of peace by: 1. Expanding the Forsaken. 2. Unifying families broken by the Scourge and separated by life via undeath. 3. Through undeath there will be equalization and peace under her absolute rule.
Sylvanas won't be another Garrosh because simply because she's monstrously effective. She just solved a decade long resource drought in a single strike. She's a monster, but she's also the most capable Warchief of all time. The Horde may well come to choose prosperity over honor.
nightelf druid here , since wrath. You can laugh now, but I actually found myself shed a few tears for that tree. Set my first step there in WoW and just love the whole druid / nightelf esthetic. So that was a real bummer for me ....
I started off as a horde player in BC (Resto Cow Druid) and I loved how Thrall taught the Horde not to kill for fun an would always try and keep the peace between both factions. Jaina & Thrall were always my favorites because of how they were on the same page. This isn't what the horde is about, I feel we had to take part in something we didn't agree too. I know on our server there were a lot of horde players kneeling on the shores of Mist's Edge facing the tree that everyone Horde an Alliance loved so much.
That elf was the Night Elf Darnassus garrison commander. you work with her as Alliance during the prepatch quests
Delaryn Summermoon is still her name. It’s just now attached to a tombstone instead of a person.
Too soon?
Feels
careful yours will be as well......not soon enough
baroner24 You win the internet today!
I'm going to find it hard to believe that it was the commander when whenever I go do world quests she has a chance to tell me to do something so...
nathanos just had some lag issues
I don’t think Nathanos cared if the tree burned or not but he was probably unsettled by Sylavans’ rage
It's cause the original plan was to capture the people in the tree then burn it. She brought incendiaries with her for a reason. They could have been using plague launchers instead, but you don't see any of those. She intended to burn the tree from the beginning, her little chat just made her change the plans in the last second, which is what surprised Nathanos.
FredrickTesla Either that or he is questioning why he decided to date a psycho bitch
I have been horde through everything, and i feel emotionally gutted. I'm not an rp'er.... but I'm defalted towards this expac now. They've forced horde players to have essentially condoned the murder of innocent civilians and possibly children. I'm just disgusted. It sucks bc now alliance have the justification they need for battle and as a horde I'm just deflated and don't even want to keep playing.
Sylv may have given the order, but the horde lit the torches... like how are we supposed to have "pride" in our faction now? Legit depressed over this. I'll admit i'm too emotionally invested in this.
I still have pride in the Horde, and will always fight for the Dark Lady, this is war, and destroying one or more of the enemy races hope, is simply amazing. FOR THE DARK LADY!
Not just that, but Slyvanas is willing to kill anyone who isn't on her side or doesn't follow her orders. Evident by her killing the undead who wanted to re-unite with their living families, spreading the plague everywhere, and sacrificing her own troops just to win some momentary advantage. So even if a leader stood against her, it'd have to be all or nothing. Just imagine Baine speaking out against this and how quickly Slyvanas would either shut him down or have him replaced as High Chieftain by someone who will follow her or worse kill all the Tauren.
faction change coward
I think this is direct towards Keor, but regardless, if players like me and Keor who want to be horde aren't satisfied with the narrative direction and have spent years playing the same faction we enjoy, with races we like and aesthetics we like, what makes you think 1) faction changing would be fun? and 2) that the coward at the end of your comment is helpful?
So after this how have the Highmountain Tauren not already gone Alliance by now?
Cuz if they do, Sylvanas will smoke them too duh.
There's an undead tauren skeleton in battle for Lorderon cinematic, might want to keep an eye out for it.
spencer craig right after she uses the blight on both sides, but don't worry, she's not evil and the Horde totally isn't a disposable tool in her eyes.
well that helped them retreat and made the town useless for Alliance. We always knew Sylvanas represents first the Forsaken and then the rest of the Horde but still she hates Alliance. If someone is gonna react its gonna be Saurfang after the Lordaeron fight.
spencer craig I'm pretty sure that the Nightborn will have something to say as well. They may have beef with the Night Elves but they're not murderers. Is this the kind of world that the Nightborn and High Mountain Tauren set out to see? These allied races, and the rest of the Horde have their eyes wide open now.
She burned the tree because of the hope line. She wants to destroy the hope of the alliance. Still very much not morally grey, downright evil. And that elf is apparently the night elf who was directing our efforts on darkshore, Delaryn I believe is her name.
Don't forget she fired on civilians.
Pick up on the other clues in the book and the recent comics. She's not gonna stop with the Alliance. She wants to kill everything. The void warned us. She won't stop until the whole world is dead.
Burning the tree will not make Alliance desperate, only angry.
Biggest blunder of the world. Now the Alliance ramped for revenge and ready to send this Banshee back to Hell.
Yep. At first, she was just going to invade. That talk with the night elf pushed her over the edge.
Thanks for letting me share your experience. I saw it twice already, but truly got goosebumps watching it with you. A horde friend whispered me "I'm sorry about the tree". They are boosting an alliance character because of it.
The Tauren must be pissed, that was a world tree!!
Ben van der Riet How was ANY of the horde okay with that, as soon as that happened the rest of the horde should turned to sylvanas and the forsaken and said, “you guys are on your own!”
@Ben van der Riet well if you followed BfA story you would know he wasn't
It was an unsanctioned world tree that never received the blessing of the aspects, and it was an alliance only tree. Teldrasil was a false flag operation in order to justify taking away the forsaken's gods given right to bear blight.
i know it's kind of randomly asking but do anybody know a good site to stream newly released movies online ?
@Dayton Rowen i use Flixzone. Just google for it :)
As a Horde Druid from beta vanilla I can't bring myself to log in.
I never played Horde out of RP faction pride, but allow me to say this.
I feel you friend.
That's nothing comparable, but there was one time I was not willing to do something in the game as Alliance. Turns out it was the introductory experience for the Jade Forest. After the Horde is defeated in the southern shore, Admiral Rogers orders the troops to fire on peons swimming to shore to surrender.
That wasn't player action, but it was a cutscene. Felt pretty bad.
That questline Horde have to go through though ? Much worse.
Just get it over with. Nobody's gonna hold it to you.
I hear ya, but it's happening with or without you. :(
Just looking for a reason to say you’re from vanilla, eh? I bet you never even played it.
Someone's a bit insecure lol ^
How is that relevant Enterjudas ? Maybe he is, maybe he isn't.
His point is just that he's been playing for a loong time.
"Honor, heroes, no matter how dire the battle - Never forsake it."
I guess this is not legitimate in faction led literally by the forsaken queen
Varok Saurfang would rape a furbolg baby if Sylvanas told him to. "Honor, heroes, no matter how dire the battle - Never forsake it. Unless your warchief is the Banshee Queen btw"
I literally just did this quest in stonetalon today. Garrosh contradicts himself a lot there
You're blaming a fictional character for something that incompetent morons at Blizzard decided to write just to force a conflict upon factions.
Saurfang is being forced to choose between loyalty and honor. These are complex decisions. Loyalty relies on faith. Faith is a weapon yielded most effectively by the despot. Where Sylv is chaotic evil, I see parts of the alliance going lawful evil with the light. The alliance players will/should have these same moral challenges.
As a Tauren Druid; it sucks, feelz bad. Feels less an act of war and more of a war crime.
Why? She did not burn Thunder Bluff or Moonglade?
It's not just Druids, I'd imagine the Earthen ring will be very disappointed when they find out it wasn't collateral damage but intentional.
It was a war crime. She knew that the only thing left in the tree were civilians and she fired on it anyway. I don't know if you've played the alliance quest for this week but you have to save like 900+ people in two minutes. It's impossible to save all of them. Sylv is just as tyrannical as Garrosh was.
Destroying a city out of spite when it represent no opposition whatsoever is in fact a War Crime.
For a similarity, I suggest you get acquainted with a beautiful medival town called Dresden.
For a quick background it was a useless target on an allied raid hit list during WWII, and served as test subject for phosphorous bombs, which are the ancestor of the legendary vietnam napalm.
Town burned a full 7 days. For nothing. Absolutely nothing was accomplished.
It was just an Axis city. Allied War Crimes were of course never judged on that scale.
I wonder if Sylvie will be called to account for this one.
Because the Tauren Druids also serve Malfurion.
Between this and the book....she sure is sounding like Putricide.
"Death to the scourge ... and death to the living!"
Yep. Completely in tandem with Sylvanas in this animated short.
I think you mean Putress, but I agree that she does also sound like Putricide.
EndlessVacuum haha yes thats what I meant :-)
Teresa Hatcher “Bad news everyone, I’ve regressed as a character, but great news everyone, the Jaina video was still great!”
G O O D N E W S E V E R Y O N E
Even though I've played Alliance since vanilla, I always felt a bit of sympathy towards Sylvanas and really enjoyed her story. She did her best to defend her people in Silvermoon and continued to do what she felt was right for the Forsaken even if her choices were "morally questionable". However, now she's gone completely off the deep end. She's turning in to everything she despised about Arthas and is killing for the sake of killing. I've mained a night elf druid since early BC and watching my favorite Alliance city burn has dried up any sympathy I once had for Sylvanas. I've never been much of a Jaina fan, but after seeing both of the Warbringer videos, I have a feeling this xpac is going to flip flop my feelings about both of these characters. For the Alliance!
You summed up what I feel perfectly.
Yes, blame the character who is being written like shit, don't blame the writers for actually ruining the character, typical Alliance Fanboy reasoning.
Arthas was better than Sylvanas, he started his journey trying to protect his people, and he lost his way. He continued building the scourge army to defend Azeroth against the Legion, Sylvanas is wholly selfish. She used to be my favorite character as well, it's hard to watch Blizz drag her character through the mud like they did with Garrosh.
JonnyC 289 i definitely think they nailed her character, but what happened in that cinematic was the opposite of good storytelling going into BFA. It ended the faction war before it started, she has signed her death sentence. I wonder what kinda mount she'll drop.
Isn't it obvious what the difference between her and the Lich King is...? She serves the horde
I'm really hoping the plan was to outrage all of us so we're relieved when she hopefully turns around soon... Because if this is the lead up to Siege of Orgrimmar Banshee Boogaloo I will be really disappointed
Rebekah there is no coming back from this she just commited genocide thats unforgivable
Well yeah, it can't be forgiven really but it can be 'justified' in a way that makes us feel bad for her rather than just hate her
Like what? The Night Elves were making an Azerite-Thermonuclear Bomb and were planning to nuke Orgrimmar, so she killed them? Unless they retcon the shit out of this cinematic and pretend it didn't happen, she can't be redeemed. She's crazy, and she needs to go down. Listen to Uncle Iroh.
I don't see how they could do that with out it looking like an after thought, or a oh we upset people quick lets make an excuse for her, either way it would be a twist that wouldn't make sense
Biological weapon. Yea. From leaves. Cuz Night Elvel like leaves? Sure the do!
best comment in the forums atm
Okay so here's what happens at the end of BFA:
-We fight a Sylvanas powered up by the Spleen of N'Zoth.
-We fight her into submission.
-Jaina and Genn tell Anduin to "dismantle the Horde"
-He totally doesn't.
-She goes to trial for her crimes.
-Wrathion gets her out of prison and teleports her to the Lightforged Draenor.
lmao
This hurt. Sylvanas was one of my favorite characters, I loved the morally grey aspects of her. The parts of her that were wrong, flawed, but that were compelling and complex, that were interesting. This isn't interesting. It's cheap, it's Blizzard attempting to find the next big baddy and setting their sights on a beloved and already-almost-there character and stripping away her complexities to make her one dimensional for the sake of their war-boner. The only positive I can see from this is that there's probably going to be a Jaina versus Sylvanas duel in our futures and moon goddess above that will be the most epic thing to see in cinematic form. No bets on how that ends, I don't want to get my hopes up either way.
I like her even more after this.
You mean how morally grey she was when she ordered the plague upon the people of Gilneas?
Or how she chose to raise new Forsaken from the corpses of slain humans?
This has been Sylvanas all along and Varian has warned us about her since MoP. I think people's fandom clouded their judgement of Sylvanas' character.
Bullet Witch Er she’s the exact same characters she’s always been. Threw a temper tantrum when Alleria didn’t want to become Undead. Betrayed Garithos for nothing yes he was a terrible person but she had no legitimate reason to turn on him other than wanting power for herself and then people wonder why the Alliance didn’t accept the Forsaken... created the blight, used it on Gilneas when even Garrosh ordered her not to for no reason. Where is the part of her character where she is different to this ever? It doesn’t exist.
Vareesa Lewis, not Aleria. Get those Windrunner sisters the right way round. And I agree Bullet. Sylvanas is my favourite character, she's complex but has a set of morales she stands by, this for me was out of character. She's evil, scheming and self serving, but absolutely not impulsive. She's patient and plays the long game so this was really disappointing to see
When even Garrosh tells you no, you know that you're pretty scummy and evil.
Immediately after finishing the Burning of Teldrasil questline... I joined a huge raid and we massacred the Undercity, including Slyvanas lol.
Michael Ciotta isn't she in org though?
Yeah I was heading to do the quests and died to a raid group killing her. Kind of brought me right out of the story but I kept going. I was joking to my friends, "Well looks like we lost, time to refund the xpac since I already know what happens."
Kipzee she is in multiple places, kinda why world pvp doesn’t make sense to me. It’s more of an RP thing I think.
Tried that with Anduin 2 weeks ago and he seemed to have some invis perma bubble and zero f**s to give about his defenders :l
Coop Shanks, yup. Having the racial bosses in multiple spots does break the immersion. Would have loved for the expansions to be better linked together and cause the leaders to appear and disappear as required. Think about a certain quest chain in Nagrand involving Garrosh. Now imagine an alliance raid upon Orgrimmar, they battle their way to the thone room, only to find a note upon Thrall's throne. "Sorry, I missed you. Visiting Grandma for milk and cookies. Will be back soon."
The one elf was Delaryn, the general who sends you on Darkshore quests as an Alliance player.
Im a horde player and I love druids and shamans and monks. I am pissed
Same here. Feels bad!!!!
toughen up son your warchief would be ashamed of you!
right! dont the alliance do the same to undercity?
Donielle Moss no actually, Sylvanas nukes undercity to kill anyone inside.
Exactly. Especially tauren druid and night elf druid has been at peace for long time, moonglade is a proof. They worked together during Silithus war and during Legion expansion as well. They casted away their faction differences and worked together, now they go and burn the night elf home and trying to kill Arch Druid?
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My opinion, I already posted somewhere else but I find it really important.
Teldrassil is the Crown of Azeroth, and it being destroyed just like that is awful and makes you filled with anger.
We all know it's obvious that this will come back to bite Sylvanas in the ass but what my theory is....
I believe that Elune is going to do something.. something she has never done before. Remember when Ysera died? Elune made an appearance for the first time (not physically). Teldrassil, something important to the night elves and is connected to Tyrande and Malfurion, will not go unnoticed by Elune. She's going to do something that either helps the Night Elves rest from agony or perhaps even do something to Sylvanas. I am being very vague because I don't know exactly what Elune can do but she MUST do something, it only makes sense.
Besides that, Captain Summermoon constantly pleads for help from Elune. And adding on to that, the temple of the moon is on fire. That is TECHNICALLY an attack on Elune.
Rant over, I'm just so angry at what Sylvanas has done. To be honest, I would've not been mad if it was a third party that burnt Teldrassil.
I am a Night Elf lover/main and so maybe I am being a bit too biased.
Thnx for reading!!
I feel so blessed, thank you Elune. May you keep us the Kal'dorei strong.
May you heal Malfurion and restore the hopes of the Kal'dorei
They weren't trying to build sympathy but instead showing you parallels. She faced what happened and she had nothing but hate and vengence in her heart for Arthas. On the flip side, she has just did the same thing. She knows she did the same thing. She has gone through her life and every time she has hoped she has failed and others died leaving nothing but hate and anger in her cold dead heart. She now goes out and does the same thing again... and instead of her expecting the elves to lose hope like she lost hope, instead... the commander at her feet showed her pitty. She didn't see Sylvanas was right. That life was hopeless. She went through the same thing Sylvanas did and still had hope.
The moment she looks down and had that soft smile as she wiped the commander's tear, she was relishing in her victory. She knows for once someone feels the pain that she herself did. SHe knows that it caused her to give up hope and this will lend to that. But when she got pitty instead, she knew she had to go further and her rage reflared and she attacked at the shock of her own commanders. Notice when she wipes the tear from the Elf commander's face she leaves her face smuged just like Sylvanas, continuing the parallel.
Sympathy... There is no sympathy for the queen of the damned. She gets her victory as she stands alone. All the horde leaving her to stand by herself and watch the horrors she inflicted... her hope to kill the hope of others. But that final shot, the fire in her eyes, The look on her face. That is rage burning inside her made into reality. She is insane with grief and anger and should be pitted. But feel no sympathy for her. her heart is now too black for that.
Sylvanas windrunner used to be one of my most favorite characters along side Varian, Thrall, & Vol'jin, and I'm a retired veteran of wow, had max characters on both sides, in mop. Now Activision blizzard has taking the last popular character remaining in wow, and made me hate it, thanks dumbass Activision blizzard, oh how I miss the days of Chris Metzen being in charge of wow. 😞
They made a villain, Illidan, to become one of the best heroes of Legion. I don't think they will make her full bad, i think the story will become a redemption one.
"do you wanna become the next lich king because that is how you become the next lich king" aged quite wel into that shadowlands trailer Hazel
the burning of teldrassil, i never saw sylvanas in that cinematic, i just saw evil, she hates life :(((( shes essentially arthas when he became the lich king
Yeah, that was an act of a toddler throwing a tantrum and not a military leader following out a plan. What she heard struck a cord and it was triggered because she knows its true, she has a deep seething hatred for life, because hers was ripped away for nothing.
Antonio dont be so theorical
They already planned all the attack including the invasion
He's not being theoretical. The Forsaken have plague launchers, they could have smoked everyone out, gotten more troops from it and captured the tree without destroying it. But they didn't bring plague launchers, they brought catapults with incendiaries. Burning down the tree was always the plan, just doing it with all the civilians inside is what changed.
Well written
FredrickTesla exactly, and tbh I think if garrosh was still alive (I hate him don’t worry) he would of smoked out people before burning it down, he may of been evil but he wouldn’t just do any of that in a snap, he would want people to fear him.
"sylvanas is mean"
What I paid attention to in this video was your scars. But whom am I to say this aloud on a public forum, but looks like you've had your own tree burnt down, but fought against it, and now shines through, better than ever.
You're such an inspiration, Hazel!
I want to put some things up front. I am a Woman, I play a Blood Elf Main, I alt occasionally on a Gnome and I Bleed Banshee Blue. That being Said, I felt punched in the gut by this Cinematic. it was Very Visceral for me. I identify with Sylvanas' Brand of suffering, I feel for her, I have had some bad stuff happen in my life, that I feel like walks pretty close to the Banshee Queen. having your spirit torn from your body and being forced to watch all you loved and Fought for die. being nothing but pain and rage. reaching out to those you were distanced from, and having it come back to bite you, to have that hope ripped away by those who were supposed to love you unconditionally. who now revile what and who you are, because you were so changed they can not even recognize you. I get it. I am also a Former United States Marine. with her Feelings in general, I generally agree. with her plans, I generally agree. I was shocked! at first that she said to burn the Tree. I was shocked. I totally thought Queen Greymain was gonna burn it! Stunned out of my mind that the Obvious came true. for a moment or two, I questioned Sylvanas Motives, I will admit it, yes even I, wavered under the Choice my warchief made. as a Horde player, I understood, I think this is a cool and Calculated statement she made, She knew she had not crushed the night elf hope which is what she set out to do when she gives us the quest in the undercity, and that they would indeed "Fight us Every step of the way", which was something said in another quest leading up to this point, and that we had not won, as Captain Summermoon says we did. we did not win the Tree, we had yet to fight for the Tree. yet to hold the Tree. how many Horde would die, to take the Tree? how many Horde would die, to hold the Tree against Attempts to Liberate it? I think Burning the Tree, was the least loss of Horde Lives, Sylvanas could manage. it was an Absolutely correct Move, made by a General, Calculating the Weight of loss. the price of keeping the Tree, Vs reaching her goals, but without that loss of HORDE Life to hold or take the tree. as a Sylvanas Fan, it took me a moment to reach that point, because it looks for a second like this was a knee jerk reaction to Summermoon taunting her, but it wasn't. it was a well planned, though spontaneous correction of tactics. Killing Malfurion didn't work, taking Dark shore did not work. Sweeping in, did not kill the hope of the night elves, but burning the Tree Does. I also think, the Mirror of Sylvanas and Summermoon's deaths, puts Saurfang and Sylvanas Closer than I would like. I think Saurfang is Suicidal, and trying to get himself killed to join his boy in the Afterlife with the ancestors. I think, She may have been trying, to Kill herself here. not her body, not a death like Saurfang hopes for, but the death of who she was. I think she was trying to Kill The Ranger General of Silvermoon. The one who lost to Arthas. the one who was a fool, the part of her that hoped. She gives the Night Elf the Release of Death, for sure, which she was denied! She believes she is sending the Night elf to her Loved ones. I think this was Sylvanas the Warchief of the Horde, the Banshee Queen, Winner of the war, and she was trying to Kill Sylvanas Windrunner, Ranger General of Silvermoon and her hope, by killing Summermoon, who I think Reminded her of who she was. Destroy the last hope Sylvanas herself has for That life. Saurfang wants an honorable Death for the horde, Sylvanas wants the Peace of death, she wants her hope to die, so she no longer feels the pain hope brings. Vereesa gave her hope and ripped it away. Hurting her fresh. As did Alleria, but that was The Ranger General's hope, not the warchief's hope. I think the story may have been too nuanced here, for some who missed the nuance, which is possibly what's going on with Twitter and the explosion of outrage. Sylvanas is a Subtle, and Tactically efficient, War hardened, Battle Winning General. this Absolutely fits her Character, this absolutely fits her to a T.
I am Still For the Dark Lady, I am still Victory for Sylvanas! I am still for the Horde, as a Horde Player, yes, burn that shit burn it!
now, As an alliance player, because I play both sides. yes, I was devastated. I had no idea that 2 minutes and 30 seconds was a timer to save 1000 burning people! I was trying to save as many as I could which turned out to be 10!! which drove the Completionist OCD in me up the Sealing! I was devastated that I could not save more, that my home was burning down around my gnomish ears, because Blizz chose Both of my favorite Cities to Burn to the Ground! Teldrasil and The Undercity. Teldrasil was my Alliance home, I started Vanilla as a Night Elf and I would never again be able to hop roof to roof or sit in my nightwells or hang out at the Bear shaped bank. I watched people burn, and my home burn and I was devastated afterward. So much waist. So much that was wrong with it. I was broken, my heart absolutely fell.
I think Blizz did An Amazing Job! My God! to make me feel All of these things at the same time Essentially and be on both sides, and sooooo torn on my response with the only differrence being which toon I played and who's side I was on. they did a phenomenal Job! I was stunned Anew! I think this was great and I can not wait to see more. this Story telling is insane!
American soldier. Bad morals. Who knew.
I love this comment and the thoughtfulness that went into it.
Great point of view and amazing break down of Sylvanas. @hemming she did state that she was a MARINE not a SOLDIER. Don't get them mixed up. Semper Fi
Semper Fi and thanks!
Wait, there's a difference between a US Marine and a US soldier? What have I been doing with my life!
The only thing this cinematic did was tear apart the horde, while making alliance players unite to fight in BfA.
Those people that think "MY HORDE CAN DO NO WRONG" can seriously go die and be with Sylvanas in (her "oh so good") death. I'd much rather be with Saurfang; he was the only thing salvageable in this hot garbage of a questline.
Unprovoked? She killed his son!
Innocent civilian miners in Silithus? The same ones that were mining a weapon of mass destruction?
That was ages ago, in that scenario the attack was unprovoked.
Yeah and now the Alliance are trying to gather it instead, I wonder why... is it because the Alliance are a bunch of hypocrites? Yep.
You must be simple minded. allow me to put this in a way you will understand.
Undead Lady kill doggy son
Undead lady poison land doggy owned
Undead lady makes human death camps
undead lady commit many war crimes
doggy track undead lady
doggy get revenge on undead lady in stormheim
undead lady burn civilians in a giant tree
undead lady commit more war crimes
simple enough for your idiotic brain to understand or are you just as dumb as the rest of your misbegotten kind.
My guess is that the battle will continue until the final raid of BFA then Sylvanas goes mad with power and the horde and alliance will have to team up to take her down.
She’ll probably kill saurfang or another important horde character so the horde will be justified in teaming up with Anduin and his crew.
Siege of Orgrammar/Garrosh 2.0....
yay!!!!! *sigh*
normalperson Jaina will kill Sylvanas or they both die in a big 1v1
They will milk this. She will turn all evil and be forced out of the horde. Probably escape to a northrend like place. Next xpac comes out and she is the big bad of the second patch, we go to kill her but find out she needed a large undead army to resist the void(dark ranger class comes out possibly). Then xpac after that we help her and her undead army defeat the void and she sacrifices her life cuz blizzard.
Teaming up? Nah. Fuck the horde, I don't care if they say they didn't like it, what counts is what they did.
I’m here from the far future. Your indeed correct
50 Shades Of Morally Grey
This just sucked. Either we have a Garrosh 2.0 on our hands, or Blizzard pulls a "oh no, she wasn't really evil, it was X mystical force that made her do all that!"
Neither make me very excited to go out and hold my Horde banner on Zandalarar.
yeah i think so too they just trying to make a garrosh 2.0 and it sucks...
Garrosh was possessed and corrupted, Sylvanas is just hopeless and emotion driven. She far more dangerous. Same with Jaina.
It was just an emerald dream
Maybe Old god is the one who make Slyvanas corupted
Javier Sepúlveda Anderson that would be better than having her as raid boss.. tho i think it all may be cuz the old gods corrupted her mind
As a horde player of 13 years with very few alliance alts made only to kill time, this whole moment in time sucks. Because I'm surrounded by players who LOVE the direction of Slyvanas for whatever reason, alliance players who are using this to not just call out the horde but basically say that horde players are a problem because we HAVE TO BE IN SUPPORT OF THIS. But I just want to play the best race in the game; trolls. I can't do that on alliance, and it's not my fault I hate this narrative direction. Vol'jin's time as Warchief was cut too short, sandwiching him we had Garrosh who was a no nothing young adult with no life or leadership experience who had no business being in that position, and came into evil actions, and on the other side we have this monster. I guess 3/5 Warchiefs are just going to be warmongering for whatever reason... I know there are a lot of complaints about green Jesus Thrall and whatever, but at least he wasn't this.
Sorry, But Garrosh was a brilliant Strategist.
I'm Alliance and I agree, you guys have gotten the short end here. Seriously. Vol'jin never got to do *anything* of note as Warchief... and that sucks. I was actually kinda interested in seeing how they'd use Sylvannas, and I (mostly) liked her use in Legion... but this just... *facepalm* I just do not understand this. At all.
That said I've been skeptical of the whole "ra ra faction war" thing since the announcement of BFA so I guess I shouldn't be surprised I'm displeased with the direction. It's just sad.
Remember the closing screen she stands alone!!
i dont get this guy, people has been waiting for sylvanas's leadership for years and now they complain because she is being hard with her enemies? what would you expect from her, something like "i'm not going to blame you for what happened to me"...BULLSHIT. Hope that sylvanas destroy anyone who steps in her way, even horde if that is necessary. it has never been about faction, it is about her.
I'am only sad that Saurfang spared Malfurion.
The Jaina one was 1000 times better.
I hoped for a song, but Sylvanas is not about letting people keep their hopes up.
Agreed, they could of done Lament of the Highborne to a scene of her thinking back to Arthas destroying Silvermoon.
Nope, this one was better. Why? Because it made us all get involved emotionally. Jaina one had a beautiful song but this made us all feel like it was a real life event.
I'm not so sure. Hers suggests she's going to be a war criminal turning around to her father's evil way of thinking. It looks like a metaphor for WWII, where it wasn't so much good vs. evil, but evil vs. cartoonishly evil. There's enough of that crap in the real world. I won't play a game in that kind of setting.
Jaina realized Diversity, was not a strength.
I think the elf that dies on the shore watching tree burn is the same elf that gives you quests a moment before the 'in-game' cinematic pops up.
This shows why Sylvanas has been an continues to be so basic.............. if not for the fanboys and girls liking her sexy meets crazy she would of long ago been dead. EVERYTHING the night elf said to her is true. She is just a scared forsaken too afraid to die, and to consumed by hatred to lead anyone or anything. Loved the fact that Blizzard went full in and said yup THIS is the crazy villain, HOWEVER I am 99% sure Blizzard will pull some old god's bullshit instead of allow Sylvanas to be the full on crazy hateful lil emo elf she has become.....
Michael Coffey we got another death wing people XD
"are we really just Garosh-ing again?!" best line ever lol
Bad story telling
I've been horde for years and this upsets me - I don't know why the writers decide blue good red bad instead of the moral grey area that's been consistent throughout WoW. Whoever was in charge of this expansion I imagine is a hardcore alliance player.
Gray area? Bro, the horde was formed to hunt draenei in exchange for power, with kil'jaden pulling the strings trough gul'dan. And you would think that upon learning this they would settle down and not start more shit up, but you'd be wrong, terribly wrong. Your faction is a clusterfuck of retarded leaders doing retarded shit, and when they're not starting a war against the natives of a planet they fled to because they destroyed their own, they´re dying like dogs being struck by a random mob in a fight against the legion and proceeding to appoint more retarded leaders. Sauerfang? No. Cow-person? No. Bitch Sylvanas? YES, good idea retarded troll, no wonder the other races EVOLVED from trolls.
"Hur dur, I'm a horde player but I don't like what the writers are doing, I thought that the red banner and all the history of aggression were just a big coincidence" Yeah. And I joined the kkk, but 'm so fucking surprised that all the other 3 members are racist as fuck. Give me a break mate, no one chooses horde expecting to be the good guys.
Lucas Kuster Ribeiro actually (yes I’m late ik) vol’jin heard the whispers from the jailer himself to make sylvanas warcheif, sylvanas had it all planned since legion, making deals with demons and even trapping holy angels chicks for the jailers bidding. So it wasn’t vol’jins fault.
If you haven't been told yet, the dying elf is a specific elf. She is Derlyn Summermoon who was an NPC out at Lordanel. I think her last name was Summermoon.
Honestly this could be part of the longest con by the old gods, all starting with the fall of the lich king, sylvanas killed herself and went to hell, but hat if what she saw was actually the old gods, the same old gods that told vol'jin to make sylvanas warchief, the same old gods that had once before corrupted a world tre but maybe couldnt do it with this one so pushed sylvanas to burn it and is now going to use sylvanas and possibly jaina as puppets! or maybe ol' syllly is just cray cray
The world tree was already corrupted. It wasnt as powerful as the original because the dragons didnt give their blessing. Which caused corruption in the tree.
Sylv is as batshit crazy as she always was. I don't know why people are acting like Blizzard just changed her character. She's always been Forsaken first, Horde second.
Sylv is as batshit crazy as she always was. I don't know why people are acting like Blizzard just changed her character. She's always been Forsaken first, Horde second.
The thing about people believing this is out of character for Sylvannas is not wrong. In the past she has proven to be ruthlessly pragmatic in her approach for Forsaken and to some degree The Horde's success. In stark contrast, this just seems like she is just simply angry.
IMO it's way too early to be too upset lore-wise. I'm on the "just wait and see where this goes" side of the fence. Instead of being upset, I am more intrigued than I've ever been about the lore going into BFA. Depending on how this story arc is resolved, this could be one of the most interesting expansions or the worst ever.
Jaina is no puppet. Jaina is just woke.
She intended to capture teldrassil and realized that the night elves would always try to rebel so she decided instead of having the trublesome elves on her hands to burn down the tree which was their "hope".
The need for security and strength I understand. The need for sureness of purpose and willingness to make the hard decision I understand. This was not war, this was murder, a war crime of unforgiveable magnitude. Obduran@windrunner Tauren warrior of Azeroth
Don't worry, you'll be literally forced to commit another war crime at the Battle of Lorderon in two weeks. It gets worse.
there is no such thing like war crime. war is war.
neardaRk
Tell that to the Warcraft book literally titled...."War Crimes"
Hobo, I know that book, but still... don't you know what they say? there are no rules in love neither in war. as for me, I really like these events even though, from the alliance nelf is my favourite. yet, finally a content about war. about real war. can't wait to see what will happen, but it is already awesome!
neardaRk
Genuinely glad you are enjoying the content, I just wish I was. IMO its just the same song and dance with forced faction conflict we've seen before. Syl is now served up as Garrosh 2.0. Storylines so good, they'll keep remaking them!
She was right when she said she cannot kill hope. It dawned on Sylvanas that it is a necessity to break hope in order to secure victory for the Horde. Invasion was not an option anymore.
It's just not the way I think the story should have gone. But that's just my opinion. Would have been MUCH smarter if she had the intent, didn't do it, but then something did it anyway so we still had to fight. Dunno. I just don't think I'll be playing for the Horde in the next expansion... unless they try and retcon it or something. That wasn't morally grey... that was genocide.
There are two points to Sylvanas that have been getting worked on over the years;
- She wants to save her "People"
- She has ALWAYS been a very straightforward character. Point A to Point B, no time for additional worries. We saw it in War 3, and we have seen it time and again in the WoW storyline. They do *attempt* to give her a little sympathy during the Arthas scene, but really all it is doing is re-enforcing the fact that she has a Very specific goal of saving The Forsaken.
So when Vol'jin gave her the leadership of the Horde and all its resources, it was essentially giving a child your credit card. She is now pretty much free to push for a world where the Forsaken can thrive, which of course means death on a large scale - since all other methods have been taken from her.
Again, not because she is "Evil", although (as intended by the story team) her actions above would make anyone hate her, but because that is the Essence of the character and always has been; Get your goal no matter what the cost is.
Horde druid here.
Feels bad man...
Why? She didn't burn Thunder Bluff or Moonglade :/
+TastyBerries but she is against the life itself, dude. druids love life
Burning the world tree is a crime against nature, something druids hold highly over any allegiance to the horde or alliance
I alawys ready to support our glorious Horde!!!
For the Horde!!! For the undead queen!!! For the Honor of war death!!!
Literally everyone turned into a Forsaken by the Lich King had their entire humanity ripped out of their body. Every Forsaken is capable of doing what Sylvanas did. Why would an Undead character NOT burn down a WORLD TREE out of spite and to prove a point??? I'm cracking up at you saying that not every Forsaken is destroying things like her. They're ALL capable of doing that. They're FORSAKEN.
*FOR THE FORSAKEN! FOR THE DARK LADY!*
The night elf is named Delaryn Summermoon and is a commander, sylvanas was ment to invade darnassus and not burn it down, but as the commander told sylvanas that she could never kill hope, the warchief wanted to prove her wrong and by so burning the tree instead of invading it!
I chose the alliance because Horde was already too evil leaning for me, but now? I know the Horde isn't just Sylvanas, but Horde players have every right to be upset; and as an alliance player I'm disappointed the antagonist is just a cheap villain.
Now she only needs to tell a platypus her evil plans in order for the cinematic to show up on the Saturday morning cartoons.
Appropriate name because I'd give about as much consideration to such a pathetic comment as I would stanky spoiled watermelon.
She isn't cheap, IMO. She's a horrifyingly realistic narcissistic sociopath dictator. Garrosh was written cartoonish and inconsistently . Sylvanus has been going this direction the entire time we've known her.
wars dont have a good or a bad side, and people need to know that
Both sides have done some pretty evil things. No one in this universe is pure.
Sylvanas: "Can't I?"
Hazel: *Shockingly drinking tea*
I think Sylvanas had an epiphany when speaking with the night elf. She realized that just taking Teldrassil wouldn't be enough to deter the Alliance. She burned Teldrassil to burn hope, destroy the alliances will to fight. Now can this backfire, oh yeah, will it? Probably. Was she not in a great emotional state to make that decision? Maybe. But you can see when the night elf says you cannot defeat hope a lightbulb goes off in Sylvanas' head.
It does create quite a plot hole for horde druids, maybe even the whole Tauren race in terms of why they fight for someone willing to go that far.
I do not think that was the case, she had a temper tantrum in response to the night elf's comment.
It's morally unfair, but guys do you think that wars haven't killed innocents in real life? War is pain, not a joke and Sylvanas knew that. She lost her life although she tried to save that mother with her child and she did't make the difference. However Tyrande decided to turn back to Stormwind without helping, for me that was morally gray too. Sylvanas fought for her people and she died, Tyrande didn't give a **ck of her people (WHERE IS MY HUSBAND?) Sorry for my bad english >_
She was the elf that we were talking to in the Darkshore/Ashenvale questline :(
When Sylvanas said: "Can't I?", you can see Hazel's face like "What the?"
Honestly....I think the lore team just messed up BIG TIME. When you have a game based around two factions that are neither "good" nor "bad" your writing has to be as neutral as possible. They completely made the Horde for this next xpac the bad guys. So far, terrible job.
Javier - Well, its not the horde that's evil. Its Sylvanas. You follow what your leader says or else you're viewed as a traitor.
Its a war dude... there is no good or evil only power and those that wish to seek it. Even in real war like ww1 and 2 both sides killed countless civilians in bombing runs etc. You have to destory the moral to cripple the other side. Everyones mad blah blah blah just you wait jania will kill even more horde civilans in an attack
You can't make story about the war (faction war is a base for Warcraft) with two good sides, if that was the case there would eventualy be truce.
When one side is "bad", war never ends and Horde players should accept the fact they play the evil faction and go along with it.
Your opinions ofc. BUT pretty much the majority of the community agrees its just a terrible direction lore-wise so, I'll just leave it at that. Funny thing is most of the complaints are coming from Horde players.
i just sfeel like most of yall are reading the this first chapter of BFA and kicking off without letting the story be told... id find everyone point would have more clout if this was then end of and expansion.. not the start. though these are blizz, they always ALWAYS whine and bitch
That "specific elf" was Captain Delaryn Summermoon, head of the Darnassus City Guard. She is the primary NPC for the Alliance on their side of this event.
Shall the Alliance capture Sylvanas, after both sides losing many lives? Then a stealth team of loyal Horde free her from the Stockades & take her to an alternate Azeroth where she can continue her plans. I shall call it Warchief of Azeroth (WoA). Please hire me Blizzard for my original ideas.
9.0 Zombie Rangers of Quel´Thalas
Yeah, no. If they make a mockery reenactment of the Trial, I'll be so pissed I might well quit.
Well not really, I've spent 14 years playing the fucking game and as sad of a thing it might be to say, it's part of my life to the point I can't see myself do without it. Even if I don't play "a lot" by gamer standards.
But still, that would worsen that love hate relationship that's been going on for me for a few years.
Iron Forsaken!
No guys. Obviously the alternate reality is where she took up the crown.
Wrath of the Lich Queen anyone?
WRO exactly, and it was that kind of stupid convoluted claptrap that made me stop playing WoW when warlords came out. Garrosh should have been executed on the spot and the people of both Horde and Alliance move on. The burning legions return was more than enough to move on to and without that Garrosh alternate timeline clusterfook. And now they give us another Garrosh? WTF! I sas so happy when Voljin was made warchief. It proved that the Horde was not Just about orcs and Voljin was strong and wise. But then Blizzard kills him and Varian who had grown so much and risked everything, in part having faith in his son, only to die Anduin brocken by both fathers death and the betrayel of the horde whom he championed so vehemently to the alliance.... Now this? War or no there are lines you do not cross. The razing of a city killing women children and wounded is just wrong. The Orcs fight with honor the Tauren cherish nature. The blood elves do not crave this sort of wanton destruction lest we be as Arthas and his scourge who destroyed our city and ffs even trolls would not commit such an atrocity. Yeah, forsaken feel nothing but THE HORDE IS NOT ONLY FORSAKEN!!! FOR THE HORDE MEANS ALL HORDE RACEA NOT THE EVIL BLOODLUST OF ONE TWISTED UNDEAD RACE! The horde should be rid of the scourge born abominations for this and past trespasses against all lest we forget the devilry commited in Northrend! THE HORDE MUST BE CLEANSED OF THE FORSAKEN BLIGHT!
"The Lich King gots lot of people, and they aren't committing crimes against forestry!"
I love your comments Hazel :)
When I started doing the War of Thorns I had a little feeling that horde is the evil guy here. After seeing this I completely feel like Horde is really evil and just destroying stuff.. And I'm a horde druid😐
When she turns Summermoon’s head to look at the tree I got chills and goosebumps.
I'm glad blizzard did this, all the Sylvanas apologists can't squirm away from this one. She has always been this evil and heinous but they've managed to rationalise it away in their twisted little minds. Genocide on a whim. This is your Warchief.
You notice the final shot of the cutscene is Sylvanas standing completely alone on the beach. I think even Nathanos is having doubts about her now.
I’m not planning on ever switching factions, but this is the most ashamed I’ve ever been to be apart of the Horde. We have had awful choices in leaders lately. I want Vol’jin back.
I kinda felt sick about playing on my toon today.
Apparently the elf is Delaryn, the sentinel captain who the Alliance was working with during the war of thorns. I wasn’t sure because the voices are different, but when you do the Horde side, you see her body on the beach
If they kill Sylvanas, Azeroth will be destroyed by the Void
Sylvanas is the Void worst Enemy because the Void can't corrupt the Undead, so i still believe is something behind this with Queen Azshara
Bolvar, Calia Menethil, the entire DK class, Odyn's Stormforged and the rest of the non-infected titan-forged, all scoff. Sylvanas is pointless in the scheme of things.
Lore regarding Necrolytes seems to contradict that, mate... I've seen undead corrupted by the void, i've also seen undead corrupted by fel energy. Did you pull that "undead are incorruptible" lore right out of your ass?
Here's something you need to consider, necrolytes are necromancers who use the power of the void to perform necromancy... So if death magic, and void magic can mix and affect eachother... Then they can both corrupt eachother.
Not only that, but Arthas regularly mixed void and death frequently... it's even shown in this goddamn cinematic.
S/He is not the only one saying that. It's been a commonly discused hipotesis that the undead are immune to the void's corruption. A lot of people defend that point by going back to WotLK: The undead of the scourge were the only ones that could gather Saronite, Yogg'Saron's blood withouth (apparently, atleast) going crazy (players can too tho).
I find that hipotesis pretty... weak; i don't like it, to be honest.
Remember the book? Sylvanas tought that Anduin wants to replace her with Calia. The possibility of losing a kingdom isnt realy a tolerable thing. + The tree got a ton of azerite
Thank god i changed to alliance last year, because i would be buying a faction change this instant if i hadn't.
Captain Summermoon (the night elf) was the resistance leader and kind of pissed off Sylvanas. If you watch the Horde follow-up to the cinematic, Sylvanas says that she didn't foresee this being the outcome (her plan was to occupy Teldrassil), but when Summermoon told her that she couldn't kill hope (as in, the night elves will fight to reclaim Teldrassil), it was in that instant that she decided that burning it would be the pragmatic solution (Teldrassil is not a very strategic location to occupy, so simply razing the city is easier), and got some satisfaction knowing that Summermoon's last moments alive would be watching her home burn.
Evil. But certainly not a temper tantrum (she yelled because, IMO, Blightcaller didn't think that was her actual command; remember, he has very little regard for the living, too). I certainly hope they use this as a means to build up a plot twist character redemption for Sylvanas. I had a weird daydream of the N'zoth encounter...
*prelude is that N'Zoth fully reveals its hand after you kill Azshara, prompting the Horde and Alliance to come together to journey to Ny'alotha, so Genn, Anduin, Nathanos, Saurfang, Sylvanas, Mekkatorque, et al are present during the N'Zoth encounter*
As you fight N'Zoth, he randomly mind controls players (as Old Gods are wont to do), and at a certain point (1% HP; the end of the encounter, and roll the Obligatory Awesomesauce Cinematic™), N'Zoth gains enough power to dominate everyone's will (players and heroes), except for Sylvanas, so Sylvanas goes full banshee and utterly obliterates N'Zoth to prevent herself from being dominated again. In that moment, she realizes that she can still feel compassion and that not only was she defending herself, but all life.
Or Blizzard just quits and has Sylvanas take possession of some random part of N'Zoth and becomes Garrosh 2 Banshee Boogaloo.
To the war, baby ! FOR THE ALLIANCE ! Btw, Garrosh did only one thing wrong : he didnt crush this afflicted corpse after the plague thing.
This is why you just keep looking sad and broken when the enemy leader comes up to you.
FOR THE ALLIANCE!
FOR THE HORDE
FOR THE HORDE! I FUCKING LOVE SYLVANAS
It isn't even for the Alliance anymore. It's FOR THE LIVING!
Nope, Horde members are still living, what are you on about
For the Peace of the kingdom
Sylvanas: "This is war"
Delaryn: "No, this is hatred"
Reality: "No, this - is an efficient way to take out potential enemies"
As Sylvanas said, this actually IS war... check your morals at the door.
Hurr durr, Arthas didn't have mercy so neither can I.
It's pretty much as Slyvanas says, this is war.
Everyone come to the Alliance
Sylvanas knows what it’s like to have all hope taken from her. Hope, to her, is pointless. Her whole goal was to take their hope. That’s why she wanted to take over the tree. She realized that’s not what they feared. They feared it being destroyed. So she ordered for it to be burnt to destroy their hope.
yea bad story telling... im sad for the games story, not the tree
Pyramidion i grief for the player base that feels gutted, not for the game
The elf she was talking to was the captain (her name escapes me right now) that you would be working with during the Alliance side of those quests and World Quests. Near the end of Part 2 of that quest chain, you can see her wounded on the beach at one point.
Hazel, remember that she has a purpose, she is needed as warchief because Vol'jin saw something that we dont know. So i choose to fight for her whatever she may do, and I must say that she is right, this is war. I dont think they are gonna kill her off, she will be redeemed. How? I dont know, but i trust Vol'jin and as we all know; He speaks for the Horde. (Though i mostly play alliance xD)
Maybe she is redeemed through her final death.
blizzard anounces Lich-k 2 : Banshee editition
I remember on the cinematic were sylvanas was placed as the new warchief, Baine Bloodhoof (Tauren leader) was visibly distraught when she got the tittle warchief, it wouldnt be a long shot if taurens start rebelling against the ideologies of the horde, even the orcs arnt so happy with sylvanas' decisions, during the last quest in darkshore where Saurfang takes a cheap shot against Malfurion, he actually lets him live even though Sylvanas said take his head off. They are definitely trying to build rage against Sylvanas.
Sylvanas doesn't need your redemption. Can't wait for Stormwind becoming the next capital city for the Forsaken. Sylvanas will save Azeroth from the Void.
by killing everyone lol
On this day, we horde are not made up of our Warchief alone! This day, we Horde stand together! Let this not make our bonds relinquish to the Alliance. Let us stand together still even in the midst of crisis! Let us not loose hope in our Horde while we have a hopeless and honorless warchief!!! We must stand together! Fuck Sylvannas, were moving forward!!! FOR THE HORRRDDEEE!!!!
as undead warlock & balance tauren druid i'll just say glory to the dark lady
yeah kkkk like
undead: "GLORY FOR THE HORDE"
Tauren: "GLORY FO..wait, but im alive and i use power of life itself..oh damm"
the voice acting, imagery and the way it was paced was amazing even if I didn't think she was the one to do it. still beautifully done
FOR THE HORDE!
FOR THE DARK LADY!
FOR SYLVANAS!
Can't wait to kill her as a raid boss :P
That elf, was Delaryn Summermoon. You did the world quests/plot with her that built up to this moment. aswell as the garrison work that others stated below.
Queen of Blades is my favorite villain
"Are we really just Garroshing again?!"
EXACTLY!!!
I like this more than the Jaina one
really?
As someone who has played horde post cataclism quest chains of Tirisfal, Silverpine forest, Southshore, Arathi Highlands, West Plaguelands, Wrathgate chain quest (WotLK), Stormehin and the horde pre expansion event to the end (in beta), this is Sylvannas in her purest state, she has shown her 'crazy murderer' way in those quest chains, more than once. Her enemies have always been any living thing which are not forsaken, and she don't give a shit about the rest of the horde (which she left aside in Tormenheim, in order to follow her own goals, instead of help against the Legion). Now, she wanted to kill Malfurion in order to remove hope from their enemies, when she failed in remove that hope, even whith Malfurion supposely dead, she decided to go a step further, and burn the tree, she wants everyone to lose hope, their worst enemies first, yes, but for her, and in the end, anyone not a forsaken is her enemy.
"THIS IS WAR"
never forget that.
she doesn't need redemption, she did what she had to do to insure a safe future for the horde.
DEATH TO THE LIVING !
She started the war, and then committed war crimes, all she's done is ensure her own downfall.
the only downfall will be of the alliance !
she probably will die and horde will find a new warchief, one that not uses death of people of own faction to kill inocents of the other
"Future for the horde" Oh please, Sylv doesn't give a rats ass about the Horde and everyone knows it. She is Forsaken first and anything else second.
it's not even about the Alliance, she will fracture the Horde with what she's done, it's Garrosh all over again.
You said it all. "I'm ready to go to war.". Mission accomplished.
Sylvanas sees herself as the savior of her people, a great unifier, and a bringer of peace by:
1. Expanding the Forsaken.
2. Unifying families broken by the Scourge and separated by life via undeath.
3. Through undeath there will be equalization and peace under her absolute rule.
Sylvanas won't be another Garrosh because simply because she's monstrously effective. She just solved a decade long resource drought in a single strike. She's a monster, but she's also the most capable Warchief of all time. The Horde may well come to choose prosperity over honor.
nightelf druid here , since wrath. You can laugh now, but I actually found myself shed a few tears for that tree. Set my first step there in WoW and just love the whole druid / nightelf esthetic. So that was a real bummer for me ....
Elf: "You cant kill hope"
Sylvanas: "Bet"
When youre a horde mage and all you want to do is run away to dalaran and just chill in your order hall watching this war play out with a great view
You had the same reaction when i saw this video, and i can tell your reaction is genuine.
I started off as a horde player in BC (Resto Cow Druid) and I loved how Thrall taught the Horde not to kill for fun an would always try and keep the peace between both factions. Jaina & Thrall were always my favorites because of how they were on the same page. This isn't what the horde is about, I feel we had to take part in something we didn't agree too. I know on our server there were a lot of horde players kneeling on the shores of Mist's Edge facing the tree that everyone Horde an Alliance loved so much.
This was a reaction to the Sylvanas video or to that cup you focused the entire time?