thank you! my dance teacher used to insist that we have to bounce when we dance and it made me feel like Im dancing wrong. Now I know that I dont have to bounce all the time but keep my pulse or groove and engage my core more.
Yes, indeed! If you watch old timers clips, you won't find something comparable to the bounce taught by some modern dance schools. I can only remember one example of something similar, so my conclusion is the upward bouncing is not essential to Lindy Hop, although you can use it as another tool to express the music. All the best!!!
Gracias! Lo importante es saber jugar con todos los modos de acuerdo a la música, en lugar de pensar que el Bounce es sine qua non, salvo como herramienta de aprendizaje o ritmo para un pasaje concreto. Un abrazo!
Gracias por este video!! Estoy empezando a aprender el baile y me insisten con el bouncing como algo esencial, siendo que a mí me resulta un poco forzado y estéticamente no me agrada tanto. Muy buen video para entender y contextualizar. Agradecida!
¡Hola! Revisando, literalmente, cientos de clips clásicos, solo encontré un ejemplo de algo similar al bouncing visible y deliberado que enseñan algunas escuelas modernas. Esta mecánica parece ajena al Lindy Hop clásico, aunque puede servir de herramienta para llevar el ritmo y enseñar a los principiantes. Lo que los clásicos hacían en realidad era una mecánica que ahora llamamos "pulse" (aunque antes se llamaba también "bounce"), y que servía para desplazarse de manera más eficiente en el plano horizontal sin que la cabeza subiera y bajara al hacerlo, comprimiendo el núcleo corporal. Si te gusta el bounce, puedes usarlo, o usarlo en ciertas partes de la música donde puede representar lo que escuchas. Pero esta mecánica no formaba parte de la técnica base del Lindy Hop clásico, y no solo no es obligatoria, sino que enfatizarla puede frenar algunos aspectos del aprendizaje. Un abrazo!
Interesting. As you said in old times clips they don't use "bounce", and in fact they also rarely use triple steps as much as we do in these days. Indeed when someone asked Frankie wich is the basic Lindy Hop step, he didn't even know about triple step basic (six or eight) he answered that the basic is "jig walks" (six time), you can find about this in a video of Laura Glaess on youtube about Jig Walks. That being said, since they dance on faster tempos is obvious that they rarely use bounce. I found bouncing (i mean the one without moving too much the height of the shoulders and head differently from other swing dance like boogie) really useful in slow tempos where you use triple steps and bounce help to fill up the movement. As the tempos goes up you reduce it, till almost zero at fastest songs (where also you use kicks steps or slows to move on the dance floor). Thats what i feel good as bounce to teach.
Yes, indeed! I totally agree. That's why nowadays we differentiate pulse from bounce, being the pulse a small bounce suited for the horizontal movement of Lindy Hop. If the head moves upwards and downwards visibly, because we are emphasizing the vertical axis, then we call it bounce. But as I said in another comment this is a modern distinction, which came from Balboa or smooth styles, where the core is compressing but the bounce is not possible or desirable.
@estiloswing so do you agree that for slow tempos, It Is possibile, in triple steps, to enfatize a bit more the pulse? So It becomes almost a bounce? (I Say almost, because i don't likes the up and down of the head, but surely could be more visibile than a simple pulse, let's say halfway between both).
Yes, of course. In the video I tried to explain how exaggerated bounce is often taught in schools as the "default", while classic dancers, even in slower tempos, moved differently. But I'm not meaning you can't use it, I like bounce sometimes, if it suits the song, the movement or some parts of the dancing. It's another body rhythm, but not a default. In my country many people believe you should always do it regardless of the song!
NOTA: En el vídeo no se dice que el Lindy Hop no pueda bailarse con bounce (entendido como el pulse deliberado y visible que enfatiza el plano vertical) sino que no es fundamental u obligatorio para bailar Lindy Hop dado que: 1. No era un ritmo corporal que observemos o parezca importante en el metraje de los bailarines clásicos. 2. Fue una creación de las escuelas como herramienta de aprendizaje (y que los profesores podemos utilizar) pero también un corsé que puede limitar las posibilidades técnicas del baile. 3. Es mejor entender el bounce como un ritmo corporal más y no como la mecánica base del Lindy Hop. El pulse (que puede entenderse como un bounce muy sutil que no es deliberado, sino que resulta del modo natural de desplazarse al comprimir el núcleo corporal) sí es fundamental y siempre debe estar presente. 4. Cada ritmo corporal posee características distintas y es importante experimentar con todos ellos para ser más musical y auténtico en nuestro baile (groove), en lugar de bailar "por defecto" haciendo bounce. La música debe ser siempre la guía. Recomendamos leer las referencias.
hi. first of all, thank you for elaborative video. i can't imagine how much effort you put into it to analyse this. Though I've been danced lindy hop for 10 years, what you claim is very curious and unheard-of for me. since I can't understand spanish, i'm depending on english subtitle(but still, i'm not a native english speaker). can you please explain the things detailedly below? i am very interested in what you tell in this video. 1. when you call "pulse", what do you mean exactly? as i know(not sure), pulse is a kind of bounce used in balboa or blues dance. it seems that you prefer "pulse" to horizontal version of bounce. am i right? or you guys or in your country usually call pulse as a horizontal movement? 2. when you suggest legendary dancers or old dancers(in old clips) dont bounce but pulse, it seems to me that the horizontal line you draw has to do with more of momentum, rather than bounce. they still look doing bounce(though it is small) and also doing horizontal movement(momentum). Am i misunderstanding you in this point? can you explain it in english?
Hello Ryan! thanks for your question, you are welcome. I will try my best to answer! 1. In the old newspapers of the 1940's they talked about the bounce of the Swing dancers. At that time they didn't make the difference, that we modern dancers do, between “pulse” and “bounce”. Bounce described the general way Lindy Hoppers moved, compressing the body core. Today, however, some distinguish between pulse, which is the basic body rhythm essential for moving while dancing (compressing our core), and bounce, which would be a very marked vertical pulse, like bouncing a ball up and down (body sinking to the ground and recovering position, visibly). This type of “bounce” is sometimes used as a tool in class, but at least in our environment, we have seen that people exaggerate it and perform it without mechanical or stylistic reasons. In that sense, I really like your definition, understanding that the pulse is a “horizontal bounce”, undulating, arising from compressing the body center, and not from exaggerating the vertical bounce as in the charleston era of the 1920s. By the way, I have subscribed to your channel, and in your videos I see a good pulse (horizontal bounce), and not what according to this definition is the bounce (a way to move deliberately up and down vertically). 2. It is exactly as you say. If we don't differentiate bounce and pulse, everyone is bouncing. But if we distinguish as some modern dancers do, the pulse is the little bounce that is natural and necessary to move when we dance. If we exaggerate it on purpose (for style, improvisation, or whatever) we would talk about bounce as some schools in my country understand it. But I'm glad it's not the case with yours! congratulations for your dance! This distinction is not universal and is not made by all dancers or in all countries, and applies mostly to things I have seen in my country. Finally I leave you with a quote from Sonny Allen on the subject: “Sonny also said, how ‘many teachers’ are teaching people the way they ‘danced in the 1920’s” referring to “bouncing down and up to every beat”, which is what today's Lindy dancers tend to do. As Sonny said, “you can't do that to Count Basie's music.” He went on to say that they danced more horizontally “on top of the floor” than vertically “on the floor.” authenticjazzdance.wordpress.com/2013/05/19/a-great-weekend-in-harlem/ And interesting article about it: dogpossum.org/2017/08/groove-or-pulse/ Also, this original article by Jered Morin, but translated from my translation because the original is no longer available: estiloswing-es.translate.goog/el-misterioso-e-incomprendido-pulso-del-baile-swing/?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=es&_x_tr_hl=es Hugs!
@@estiloswing how kind and detailed explanation you gave! thank you so much for your hard work. I already read your comment a long time ago, but I had so many questions that I kept hesitating because I thought the writing(my question lists) would be long. I am so sorry for that. but now, I will try make it short and simple. we, south korean swing dancers, usually call horizontal movement "momentum". And that was the reason I was incomprehensible when you said pulse for the first time. I think you called the horizontal movement the "pulse". In this context, I understand that it is "pulse" not "bounce" when we dance. In short, it seems that there are two kinds of pulse which are horizontal and vertical. am I right? and the both are smaller than bounce(it has only vertical movement). And in my opinion, we can't do both horizontal and vertical move when we travel. for example, when follower is on her way because of 'send out' or 'side pass', she can't do both. she can only do horizontal move before she reach to where she has to be or wants to be. after she arrived, then she can do vertical move, say, "bounce". Still, I'm not sure I understand your video in a correct way, but very helpful. thank you.
안녕하세요 Indeed, it all depends on how we interpret the words. That's why at the beginning of the video, I define the difference between "pulse" and "bounce" as is often done in modern Lindy Hop classes. Although not everyone makes this distinction (and we can observe regional differences), I think it is useful. The "momentum" as you describe it would not be possible without the "pulse", since the body center will be compressing to some extent when moving horizontally. We can say that the "momentum" would be the "pulse moving." The pulse is necessary for walking or dancing, while "bounce" involves PURPOSELY exaggerating the pulse, so that the head will move up and down visibly. Sometimes this rhythm is done "as a filler" when dancing slowly, to teach beginners to synchronize to music or to create an effect. But when it is abused in the Lindy Hop it has the disadvantages that I mention in the video. Everything you wrote it's correct. Hugs from spain!
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Muy interesante y bien trabajado el Vídeo Felipe
¡Gracias, Daniel!
thank you! my dance teacher used to insist that we have to bounce when we dance and it made me feel like Im dancing wrong. Now I know that I dont have to bounce all the time but keep my pulse or groove and engage my core more.
Yes, indeed! If you watch old timers clips, you won't find something comparable to the bounce taught by some modern dance schools. I can only remember one example of something similar, so my conclusion is the upward bouncing is not essential to Lindy Hop, although you can use it as another tool to express the music. All the best!!!
¡Gran vídeo! Muy de acuerdo con el pulse y el groove. Se agradecen estos vídeos teóricos y el esfuerzo que ponéis detrás de cada uno! Muchas gracias
Gracias! Lo importante es saber jugar con todos los modos de acuerdo a la música, en lugar de pensar que el Bounce es sine qua non, salvo como herramienta de aprendizaje o ritmo para un pasaje concreto. Un abrazo!
Gracias por este video!! Estoy empezando a aprender el baile y me insisten con el bouncing como algo esencial, siendo que a mí me resulta un poco forzado y estéticamente no me agrada tanto. Muy buen video para entender y contextualizar. Agradecida!
¡Hola! Revisando, literalmente, cientos de clips clásicos, solo encontré un ejemplo de algo similar al bouncing visible y deliberado que enseñan algunas escuelas modernas. Esta mecánica parece ajena al Lindy Hop clásico, aunque puede servir de herramienta para llevar el ritmo y enseñar a los principiantes. Lo que los clásicos hacían en realidad era una mecánica que ahora llamamos "pulse" (aunque antes se llamaba también "bounce"), y que servía para desplazarse de manera más eficiente en el plano horizontal sin que la cabeza subiera y bajara al hacerlo, comprimiendo el núcleo corporal. Si te gusta el bounce, puedes usarlo, o usarlo en ciertas partes de la música donde puede representar lo que escuchas. Pero esta mecánica no formaba parte de la técnica base del Lindy Hop clásico, y no solo no es obligatoria, sino que enfatizarla puede frenar algunos aspectos del aprendizaje. Un abrazo!
Interesting. As you said in old times clips they don't use "bounce", and in fact they also rarely use triple steps as much as we do in these days. Indeed when someone asked Frankie wich is the basic Lindy Hop step, he didn't even know about triple step basic (six or eight) he answered that the basic is "jig walks" (six time), you can find about this in a video of Laura Glaess on youtube about Jig Walks. That being said, since they dance on faster tempos is obvious that they rarely use bounce. I found bouncing (i mean the one without moving too much the height of the shoulders and head differently from other swing dance like boogie) really useful in slow tempos where you use triple steps and bounce help to fill up the movement. As the tempos goes up you reduce it, till almost zero at fastest songs (where also you use kicks steps or slows to move on the dance floor). Thats what i feel good as bounce to teach.
Yes, indeed! I totally agree. That's why nowadays we differentiate pulse from bounce, being the pulse a small bounce suited for the horizontal movement of Lindy Hop. If the head moves upwards and downwards visibly, because we are emphasizing the vertical axis, then we call it bounce. But as I said in another comment this is a modern distinction, which came from Balboa or smooth styles, where the core is compressing but the bounce is not possible or desirable.
@estiloswing so do you agree that for slow tempos, It Is possibile, in triple steps, to enfatize a bit more the pulse? So It becomes almost a bounce? (I Say almost, because i don't likes the up and down of the head, but surely could be more visibile than a simple pulse, let's say halfway between both).
Yes, of course. In the video I tried to explain how exaggerated bounce is often taught in schools as the "default", while classic dancers, even in slower tempos, moved differently. But I'm not meaning you can't use it, I like bounce sometimes, if it suits the song, the movement or some parts of the dancing. It's another body rhythm, but not a default. In my country many people believe you should always do it regardless of the song!
NOTA: En el vídeo no se dice que el Lindy Hop no pueda bailarse con bounce (entendido como el pulse deliberado y visible que enfatiza el plano vertical) sino que no es fundamental u obligatorio para bailar Lindy Hop dado que:
1. No era un ritmo corporal que observemos o parezca importante en el metraje de los bailarines clásicos.
2. Fue una creación de las escuelas como herramienta de aprendizaje (y que los profesores podemos utilizar) pero también un corsé que puede limitar las posibilidades técnicas del baile.
3. Es mejor entender el bounce como un ritmo corporal más y no como la mecánica base del Lindy Hop. El pulse (que puede entenderse como un bounce muy sutil que no es deliberado, sino que resulta del modo natural de desplazarse al comprimir el núcleo corporal) sí es fundamental y siempre debe estar presente.
4. Cada ritmo corporal posee características distintas y es importante experimentar con todos ellos para ser más musical y auténtico en nuestro baile (groove), en lugar de bailar "por defecto" haciendo bounce. La música debe ser siempre la guía.
Recomendamos leer las referencias.
Super informative video!
Thank you!
Such a well-researched video - thank you!
You are welcome! Glad you liked it.
hi. first of all, thank you for elaborative video. i can't imagine how much effort you put into it to analyse this. Though I've been danced lindy hop for 10 years, what you claim is very curious and unheard-of for me. since I can't understand spanish, i'm depending on english subtitle(but still, i'm not a native english speaker). can you please explain the things detailedly below? i am very interested in what you tell in this video.
1. when you call "pulse", what do you mean exactly? as i know(not sure), pulse is a kind of bounce used in balboa or blues dance. it seems that you prefer "pulse" to horizontal version of bounce. am i right? or you guys or in your country usually call pulse as a horizontal movement?
2. when you suggest legendary dancers or old dancers(in old clips) dont bounce but pulse, it seems to me that the horizontal line you draw has to do with more of momentum, rather than bounce. they still look doing bounce(though it is small) and also doing horizontal movement(momentum). Am i misunderstanding you in this point? can you explain it in english?
Hello Ryan! thanks for your question, you are welcome. I will try my best to answer!
1. In the old newspapers of the 1940's they talked about the bounce of the Swing dancers. At that time they didn't make the difference, that we modern dancers do, between “pulse” and “bounce”. Bounce described the general way Lindy Hoppers moved, compressing the body core. Today, however, some distinguish between pulse, which is the basic body rhythm essential for moving while dancing (compressing our core), and bounce, which would be a very marked vertical pulse, like bouncing a ball up and down (body sinking to the ground and recovering position, visibly). This type of “bounce” is sometimes used as a tool in class, but at least in our environment, we have seen that people exaggerate it and perform it without mechanical or stylistic reasons. In that sense, I really like your definition, understanding that the pulse is a “horizontal bounce”, undulating, arising from compressing the body center, and not from exaggerating the vertical bounce as in the charleston era of the 1920s. By the way, I have subscribed to your channel, and in your videos I see a good pulse (horizontal bounce), and not what according to this definition is the bounce (a way to move deliberately up and down vertically).
2. It is exactly as you say. If we don't differentiate bounce and pulse, everyone is bouncing. But if we distinguish as some modern dancers do, the pulse is the little bounce that is natural and necessary to move when we dance. If we exaggerate it on purpose (for style, improvisation, or whatever) we would talk about bounce as some schools in my country understand it. But I'm glad it's not the case with yours! congratulations for your dance!
This distinction is not universal and is not made by all dancers or in all countries, and applies mostly to things I have seen in my country.
Finally I leave you with a quote from Sonny Allen on the subject: “Sonny also said, how ‘many teachers’ are teaching people the way they ‘danced in the 1920’s” referring to “bouncing down and up to every beat”, which is what today's Lindy dancers tend to do. As Sonny said, “you can't do that to Count Basie's music.” He went on to say that they danced more horizontally “on top of the floor” than vertically “on the floor.” authenticjazzdance.wordpress.com/2013/05/19/a-great-weekend-in-harlem/
And interesting article about it: dogpossum.org/2017/08/groove-or-pulse/
Also, this original article by Jered Morin, but translated from my translation because the original is no longer available: estiloswing-es.translate.goog/el-misterioso-e-incomprendido-pulso-del-baile-swing/?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=es&_x_tr_hl=es
Hugs!
@@estiloswing how kind and detailed explanation you gave! thank you so much for your hard work. I already read your comment a long time ago, but I had so many questions that I kept hesitating because I thought the writing(my question lists) would be long. I am so sorry for that. but now, I will try make it short and simple. we, south korean swing dancers, usually call horizontal movement "momentum". And that was the reason I was incomprehensible when you said pulse for the first time. I think you called the horizontal movement the "pulse". In this context, I understand that it is "pulse" not "bounce" when we dance. In short, it seems that there are two kinds of pulse which are horizontal and vertical. am I right? and the both are smaller than bounce(it has only vertical movement). And in my opinion, we can't do both horizontal and vertical move when we travel. for example, when follower is on her way because of 'send out' or 'side pass', she can't do both. she can only do horizontal move before she reach to where she has to be or wants to be. after she arrived, then she can do vertical move, say, "bounce". Still, I'm not sure I understand your video in a correct way, but very helpful. thank you.
안녕하세요 Indeed, it all depends on how we interpret the words. That's why at the beginning of the video, I define the difference between "pulse" and "bounce" as is often done in modern Lindy Hop classes. Although not everyone makes this distinction (and we can observe regional differences), I think it is useful.
The "momentum" as you describe it would not be possible without the "pulse", since the body center will be compressing to some extent when moving horizontally. We can say that the "momentum" would be the "pulse moving."
The pulse is necessary for walking or dancing, while "bounce" involves PURPOSELY exaggerating the pulse, so that the head will move up and down visibly. Sometimes this rhythm is done "as a filler" when dancing slowly, to teach beginners to synchronize to music or to create an effect. But when it is abused in the Lindy Hop it has the disadvantages that I mention in the video. Everything you wrote it's correct. Hugs from spain!
@@estiloswing thank you so much. your added comment made my comprehension more clearly. your insight is indeed amazing.
Muy interesante. El bounce está sobrevalorado.
Te sugiero que expliques diferencias de lindy con rock and roll con músicas ràpidas
Está previsto un vídeo explicando esas diferencias. Un abrazo.
@estiloswing lo agradeceré, porque en ambientes de lindy no se sabe bailar rock and roll, según veo