Vintage IC Chips On an old Stern STARS Pinball Machine - Never Seen One Of These! MPU Repair

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  • Опубликовано: 24 дек 2024

Комментарии • 113

  • @Ariannus
    @Ariannus 4 года назад +12

    A lot of the higher end ICs in the 70's were made in those white ceramic packages with gold plated legs.

  • @miken966
    @miken966 2 года назад +1

    Don't know why I enjoy these vids so much, but I do. Great stuff, keep it up.

    • @LyonsArcade
      @LyonsArcade  2 года назад

      Thank you for watching Mike, we appreciate it!

  • @dollarbindudeA
    @dollarbindudeA 4 года назад +2

    Good Video, Thanks Joe.

    • @LyonsArcade
      @LyonsArcade  4 года назад +2

      Thanks for watching Dollar Bin Dude!

  • @danijelcar5184
    @danijelcar5184 4 года назад +1

    It's going back to life again... 👍

  • @ataririder1980
    @ataririder1980 4 года назад +5

    Man a new video almost every day, you're spoiling me. My wife gets jealous now 😉. Thanks for you're info

    • @LyonsArcade
      @LyonsArcade  4 года назад +2

      Tell her she can have you back after Christmas :) Thanks for watching Anthony!

  • @gregoryschmidt1233
    @gregoryschmidt1233 3 года назад +1

    I don't blame you for not including video of you doing soldering work. There's a guy on RUclips who is an instructor in Mil-Spec soldering technique and has worked for NASA, and there are people commenting that he's DOING IT WRONG!!! 🙄

    • @LyonsArcade
      @LyonsArcade  3 года назад +1

      People are crazy man. I've blocked so many though that it's not really a problem much anymore, most of the people on my channel are real laid back and cool, lol. Thanks for watching!

  • @fnordhorn
    @fnordhorn 4 года назад +1

    I have seen chips like that AMI 2777 chip, Not a lot but some. Been doing bench type of work since 1977

    • @LyonsArcade
      @LyonsArcade  4 года назад

      Thanks for hanging out with us Fred!

  • @bradkuether3561
    @bradkuether3561 4 года назад +2

    I understand why you don't want to re-pin Joe, it's time consuming and on an hourly basis would make any repair out of reach for the owner. HOWEVER, for the NEWBIES doing your own repairs, it is WORTH THE TIME to re-pin every connector. Both of my machines benefited greatly from that action. Also re-flowing the solder on the boards is another "should do". You HAVE to learn how to solder. I have a neighbor who keeps calling me. I need to solder this... Can you come over and do it for me? I told him, if you want to own pinball machines learn to solder. I learned on the smaller Bally unit (Xenon), so when I got a Firepower, those boards were easy with the larger connections.

  • @grlg2
    @grlg2 4 года назад +2

    Hi Ron, really enjoying this series, thanks for making it. Wow I was going to say an AMI (American Megatrens Inc) chip but just checked when they were founded which was in 1985 so its some other manufacturer I'm not familiar with. AMI also made motherboards of which we had a 486 EISA Enterprise II in 1990. Cheers.

    • @douro20
      @douro20 2 года назад

      American Microsystems. They were one the world's largest producer of mask ROMs and an important second source of programmable logic devices. They were also responsible for making the chips which powered many early LCD wristwatches.

  • @dvv45
    @dvv45 4 года назад +1

    Want one looks like a fun Game.

  • @djmips
    @djmips 4 года назад +2

    That ceramic 6820 is a beauty. Looks like they are only around $16 on ebay though so not too uncommon.

  • @edwardskerness9226
    @edwardskerness9226 4 года назад +2

    Ron, I love the hand drawn traces of old circuit board masters. You can almost see the engineer drawing on the drafting table to get there! The CAD traces don't have the flow of those cool old boards. One question, was Bally selling/giving their design to Stern? I've always wondered. Looking for a Pharaoh if you have one (and I'll do the work if you just want it out of your warehouse).

    • @aitorbleda8267
      @aitorbleda8267 4 года назад +2

      They copied it and then went and offered money.

    • @LyonsArcade
      @LyonsArcade  4 года назад +3

      I don't have a Pharaoh unfortunately... the story on Stern is not completely clear but someone yesterday was saying the way they got the design was they bought the company that designed the boardset for Bally, then used it themselves.. later they offered to pay bally a license fee for each boardset sold, with the pitch that if the Stern boards were exactly like the Bally boards, the operators would be more likely to buy Stern and Bally games than Williams games or Gottlieb games since the parts were interchangeable and more easily repaired (since you only had to learn the 1 set of schematics)

  • @1971VoiceoftheMummy
    @1971VoiceoftheMummy 4 месяца назад

    Nice work! On to the next vid!

  • @ovalteen4404
    @ovalteen4404 4 года назад +3

    That style of chip with visible traces is apparently not unheard of, but the era of making them that way didn't seem to last long. I just looked at picture of an Intel 4004 microprocessor, and it's built the same way. It's interesting to see the evolution of integrated circuit technology.

    • @LyonsArcade
      @LyonsArcade  4 года назад +1

      I've seen some smaller ones made like that before but never the big 40 pin chips... it's not a good idea for a socket because it's more fragile, it would be easy to snap it in half.

  • @jamesm90
    @jamesm90 4 года назад +1

    Thanks for the videos Ron, your vids are great!

    • @LyonsArcade
      @LyonsArcade  4 года назад

      Thanks James, glad you enjoyed it!

  • @tcb8295
    @tcb8295 4 года назад +1

    Enjoyed the video Ron... we're all human and make mistakes sometimes...you should see my soldering skills...at least it didn't fry the chip or the display.

    • @LyonsArcade
      @LyonsArcade  4 года назад +2

      Ain't that the truth! I'm always just happy to find whatever's screwed up :)

  • @PlumGurly
    @PlumGurly 2 года назад

    The CS lines should be chip select lines. That is interesting to have 2 non-inverted chip selects and 2 inverted (/CS) chip selects.

  • @Jeroen_a
    @Jeroen_a 4 года назад +1

    I'm wondering whats up with the white sticker with the 0's on it... This used to be a bally credit display (indicated by 0 and 1 for player 1? 2 for pl... etc.. ??

    • @LyonsArcade
      @LyonsArcade  4 года назад

      I'm not sure what that is, but I see them on the displays all the time. It shouldn't be to designate a player because they're all identical, but it's from the factory....

  • @Even-Steven
    @Even-Steven 4 года назад +1

    I love the look of the old ceramic chips from the 70s & 80s

  • @yuwish6320
    @yuwish6320 3 года назад +1

    That white CPU is interesting. Motorola used similar material in the MSF and PURC-5000 power amplifier sub-boards. Its some sort of easily breakable ceramic. Don't ask me how I know its easily breakable.

  • @stefanparsch6226
    @stefanparsch6226 4 года назад +1

    Hello Joe,
    this is the way ;-)
    Greetings from Germany

    • @LyonsArcade
      @LyonsArcade  4 года назад

      Hi Stefan! Thanks for watching, we'll see you on the next video!

  • @pezjohnson
    @pezjohnson 4 года назад

    First time for everything. Thanks for showing the process.

  • @thornmountain8129
    @thornmountain8129 4 года назад +2

    It has a ways to go but it will turn out great under Joe & Ron's watchful eyes.

    • @LyonsArcade
      @LyonsArcade  4 года назад

      It should be pretty nice when we're done!

  • @johncantrell614
    @johncantrell614 3 года назад +1

    So when you first started messing with electronics, was it with these machines, or did you just tinker on other electronics first in order to get good enough to take on something like these pinball machines?

    • @LyonsArcade
      @LyonsArcade  3 года назад +1

      We bought an arcade game from the mall when we were teenagers and broke it, then fixed it, etc. and eventually got more comfortable with them, then I got a job working for an Operator and learned a lot about them trying to maintain them on route....

    • @johncantrell614
      @johncantrell614 3 года назад

      @@LyonsArcade that’s pretty cool. Sounded like a great way to get into it. 🙂

  • @douro20
    @douro20 2 года назад +1

    6800s were expensive chips back then. Motorola's pricing on them is why Chuck Peddle and a few others left and founded MOS Technology.

    • @LyonsArcade
      @LyonsArcade  2 года назад

      Somebody was asking why didn't they use 6502's and the best I could figure was because they wanted to use the 6821's which work well with the 6800 architecture

  • @1980s-fan
    @1980s-fan 4 года назад +2

    Thanks Ron, another great video filled with helpfull info. Any chance you`ll be restoring a system 1 Gottlieb any time soon ? would love to see how you deal with them.

    • @LyonsArcade
      @LyonsArcade  4 года назад +3

      I will be doing a Charlie's Angels next year sometime... but I have done several in the past if you look on our channel you can search through the videos. We did a Cleopatra, a Count Down, a Genie (may not have had videos of that one)... a Close Encounters... Pinball Pool... Buck Rogers.... Roller Disco .... and a Solar Ride! There's a bunch of videos of those here somewhere on our channel.... ruclips.net/video/AlXGYAVxYXI/видео.html

    • @djmips
      @djmips 4 года назад

      @@LyonsArcade I like checking out your archives but the quality of the new videos is so much better than even videos from two years ago! Keep up the good work.

  • @Jeroen_a
    @Jeroen_a 4 года назад +1

    By making big schematics, Stern just made sure operators had something to put there coffee on when they where working on the machine :-D or.. it's just for making notes on :)

    • @LyonsArcade
      @LyonsArcade  4 года назад

      I love 'em. You could frame it but it'd be kind of ugly since most of it's just blank paper, ha

    • @Jeroen_a
      @Jeroen_a 4 года назад

      @@LyonsArcade it's called Minimalism :D

  • @melanatedprose9134
    @melanatedprose9134 4 года назад +1

    Is the AMI S6820 with the gold legs collectible because it's rare or expensive?

    • @LyonsArcade
      @LyonsArcade  4 года назад +1

      It seems to be more rare because I've never seen one, and it's very pretty so that's why we were thinking maybe it's worth more :)

    • @melanatedprose9134
      @melanatedprose9134 4 года назад

      @@LyonsArcade Gotcha and another great series.

  • @PlumGurly
    @PlumGurly 2 года назад

    That's interesting. A Motorola CPU, but a MOS/WDC PIA. The PIAs were made for the 6502 but can work with other CPUs. There was going to be a 6501 CPU that would fit into a Motorola 6800 socket (with a different instruction set), but Motorola sued MOS over that and MOS never released it. But MOS made a few changes and moved some pins around and released it as the 6502.
    The PIAs convert the parallel bus into 2 serial buses, and there is an interrupt line so the CPU can know when to send data to the PIA. So any 8 or 16-bit CPU could work with the PIA so long as it has an interrupt line and the right ISR (interrupt service routine) in ROM to handle it.
    As for the interesting chip, it is possible that it has a BGA-type IC on it. Those were more common in Asian countries before that tech was used here. So it looks like a BGA sitting on a ceramic chip carrier. They likely used external, overall heat to put that on there, such as a wave flow oven. Nowadays, BGAs are attached directly to motherboards.

  • @godmonkeyjr
    @godmonkeyjr 4 года назад +1

    First mistake ever and it just had to be on video for the world to see. I should upload the few and rare mistakes I make dealing with electronics. One question though does RUclips have a bandwidth cap if you try to upload a few thousand hours of video or would I just have to stagger it out from now until the heat death of the universe? Lol
    Love these and your brother's videos! Keep it up!

    • @LyonsArcade
      @LyonsArcade  4 года назад +2

      I don't remember making any mistakes in this video, are you sure? I think I've messed up in the past but it's been soooooooooo lonnnnnggggg ago I don't remember specifically what it was :)

    • @cfella1974
      @cfella1974 4 года назад +1

      @@LyonsArcade I heard a mistake at the 13:13 mark. Maybe that’s what he is talking about?

  • @720vending
    @720vending 4 года назад

    love your videos and i looked up two bit score and they are open and based out of austin thats cool

  • @andymouse
    @andymouse 4 года назад +1

    Oh ! the gorgeous 555 timer....you all Know what im talking about !...cheers.

  • @waynegram8907
    @waynegram8907 4 года назад +1

    JOES CLASSIC, Why is it called "strapping" when changing the address lines on ROM/PROM chips? Any reasons why those chips U2,U3,U4,U5 have 4 different Chip select lines because mostly its just One Chip Select line per ROM/PROM chip

    • @ovalteen4404
      @ovalteen4404 4 года назад

      They often do that as a courtesy to the designers. If there's only one CS, you need glue logic to choose which device you're talking to. With more select lines available (two active high and two active low), the board designers just put the 2 highest address lines through inverters, allowing them to dial in the address by choosing different combinations of address lines or their inverses.

    • @waynegram8907
      @waynegram8907 4 года назад

      @@ovalteen4404 Can you explain more about the glue logic and why they are using SCRs instead of FETS & Transistors. You're saying that the decoder which will only have ONE Control signal and the MPU will send out only 2 highest address signals and somehow able to get an other address by choosing different combinations of address, not sure how this is done using a Decoder chip.

    • @ovalteen4404
      @ovalteen4404 4 года назад

      One common approach to choosing a chip is to use a data selector, which takes the 3 or 4 highest address lines and activates one output based on the value of those lines. Then the lines would be wired individually to each chip.
      This board has A11 and A9 going through inverters. You'll notice that all the ROM sockets include a requirement for A12 high. This board ignores the address lines 13-15. Anyway, U1 connects directly to A11, A10, and A9. Due to the active requirements of each CS, A12 must be high, A11 must be high, A10 must be low, and A9 must be low. So it responds to addresses 0x1800 to 0x19FF.
      U2 responds to A12&A10 high, A9&A11 low, except that it takes A9 from the inverter. So actually it wants A9 high. That places this chip at 0x1600-17FF. That's for the 512-byte ROMs though. They used a 2K ROM chip instead, which requires that jumper. The jumpered A9 and the A10 are address pins for that chip, and it only has 2 select lines, one for A11 and one for A12. So it responds to 0x1000-0x17FF. That is what Stars used.
      The other sockets U3-U5 have similar permutations of wiring to place them at different address slices. U6 is also a multi-chip socket, and in this game it's also a 2K chip instead of a 512-byte. As a 512, it requires A12-A9 high, to respond to addresses 0x1E00-0x1FFF. As a 2K ROM that uses A9 and A10 as addresses instead of selects, it responds to 0x1800-0x1FFF.

    • @ovalteen4404
      @ovalteen4404 4 года назад

      As for SCRs vs FETs, SCRs exact engineering reasons are above my pay grade. But at the time, SCRs were common where you needed on/off switches for high amperages with tiny turn-on current. These days, they have lost favor and MOSFETs and IGBTs now rule the roost.
      The 48V"DC" is actually just rectified AC with no smoothing. So it's a 120Hz clipped AC signal. This does give the SCR the wiggle room it needs to turn back off after the gate input goes inactive.

    • @waynegram8907
      @waynegram8907 4 года назад

      @@ovalteen4404 When arcade games would use Multiplexer Ic chips LS257 they would Multiplex the MPU/CPU address buss signals with the Horizontal and Vertical Sync signals to create new 8 bit address buss for the color RAM chips. I'm not sure why they are multiplexing the V&H sync signals with the address buss signals to create a new 8 bit address. Is there a name or term when doing this? I have see them use PROM chips to create new addresses but taking the MPU address buss 8 bits and the PROM chip outputs more new 8 bit address buss signals. I'm not sure how the PROM chip is doing this or its being used as an address decoder. Any name or term whats its called when using a PROM chip as an address decoder or creating new address ranges signals? its almost like address banking by using PROM chips

  • @dannyarnold9823
    @dannyarnold9823 4 года назад +1

    Usually the ceramic IC were Military spec components that have a wider temperature range, due to shortages someone could have sourced a mill spec one instead.

    • @LyonsArcade
      @LyonsArcade  4 года назад

      It would be interesting to figure out if it came from Stern like that or if it was from someone who repaired it along the way... probably never know...

  • @Ratzfaz
    @Ratzfaz 4 года назад

    Most Eproms and Rams have a chip select input that is active-low, but there are also some that are active high. If there is a line above the pin in the circuit diagram, it is active low.

  • @christopherrasmussen8718
    @christopherrasmussen8718 4 года назад +1

    They called, want it back lol. In Austin per the WWW.

  • @tlaim
    @tlaim 4 года назад +1

    Didn't you paint this in the last vid?

    • @LyonsArcade
      @LyonsArcade  4 года назад

      We painted it in the next vid!

  • @renatowertheim
    @renatowertheim 4 года назад +1

    so mpu board is the brain of pinball machine

  • @NivagSwerdna
    @NivagSwerdna 4 года назад +2

    That 1977 vintage 6820 is very pretty... might be worth something if you can find some retro person with more money than sense to buy it.

  • @dwfitz7
    @dwfitz7 4 года назад

    Ron, I really wish that you'd show and share some of your actions during rather than just saying and then cutting to the result. Share more of your techniques please. On this one, like when re-soldering the connectors, did you suck the old solder off first, did you use flux, did you burnish the posts, did you just reflow the existing solder, etc.

    • @LyonsArcade
      @LyonsArcade  4 года назад

      Everytime I show myself doing things, guys like you pick it apart and tell me what i'm doing wrong... and now you're telling me you're not happy with what I didn't show either, lol No thanks.
      If you don't enjoy the videos, it's all good man just go watch somebody else's videos. I'm not going to make my videos the way you think they should be in your head. I just checked out one of yours..... welp, no I didn't because you don't have any. I think i'll keep doing them the way I want to do them, thanks.

    • @dwfitz7
      @dwfitz7 4 года назад

      @@LyonsArcade I just wanted to learn from your perspectives seeing your techniques with an open mind. It was an ask, a wish, but not a complaint so much. It's crappy that it went like that for you before and that intelligent folks lose valuable information from the history of jerks. Jerks abound but I'm not going to be one of them. But given your perspective, I get why you felt the need to put some automatic sting in the reply to me. Anyway there's always many ways to do things well; which is why people would benefit more than not. Thanks for what you do, you do them for our benefit, and seeing your video's always make me wish you were local to my area.

  • @MidnightVisions
    @MidnightVisions 4 года назад +2

    commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Fairchild_6802_AMI_6820.jpg
    The white AMI S6820 chip was a second source for the Motorola MC6820 Peripheral Interface Adapter (PIA). This provided two 8-bit I/O ports. The 2716 2KB EPROM with the "6802 VER 1.7" label contains the firmware for this board.

  • @stevesnow9259
    @stevesnow9259 4 года назад +1

    I tried to order one of those nvram adapters and everything is sold out!

    • @LyonsArcade
      @LyonsArcade  4 года назад +1

      That sucks he must be selling a bunch of them... here's his ebay, he makes all kinds of cool stuff : www.ebay.com/sch/barakandl/m.html?item=203049837405&hash=item2f46b6a35d%3Ag%3AhjoAAOSw7WxehBh8&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2562

  • @grlg2
    @grlg2 4 года назад

    I must agree that's the worst bad joint that I've ever see too. It looks like a worn/missing out suspension bushing.

  • @SumeaBizarro
    @SumeaBizarro 3 года назад

    SO I HAVE GROUNDED.
    -Pauses-
    "Your son? Your daughter? Your platoon?"
    R53
    Understandable have a excellent next project

  • @scottthatcher9086
    @scottthatcher9086 4 года назад +1

    Yea Mouse Poo Stars part 2

  • @RudyValenciaDotCom
    @RudyValenciaDotCom 4 года назад +1

    Also I found out what part the replacement chip is: a Cypress FM16W08-SG (64K F-RAM). Datasheet at www.cypress.com/file/41731/download

    • @KrS14
      @KrS14 4 года назад

      Best me to it lol

    • @djmips
      @djmips 4 года назад

      yep! that's Cypress nonvolatile for sure. But I think it might actually be the The FM18W08 which is a 32 K × 8 nonvolatile memory.
      I really see an 8 not a 6... Also I think 32K is probably big enough...

    • @ovalteen4404
      @ovalteen4404 4 года назад

      The original chip that needed battery backup was a 5101L (256x4 bits), so yeah I'd expect a 32K replacement to be good enough ;)

  • @tracyr5594
    @tracyr5594 4 года назад

    Sega

  • @CaptNRetro
    @CaptNRetro 4 года назад +1

    everytime your phone goes off in a video i think i got a text

    • @LyonsArcade
      @LyonsArcade  4 года назад

      They're conditioning all of us :)

    • @CaptNRetro
      @CaptNRetro 4 года назад

      @@LyonsArcade Those Pavlovian bastards