The first time I saw this, they didn't have quite enough rope and it slipped out of the hand of the groundie, making a bit of a bang. No harm no foul. Gotta think the groundies need to be sure they don't get a twist in the line so progress doesn't come to a dramatic halt. Fun demo.
Enjoyed the video. Very interesting. A good rigging method if you're dropping Heavy spar chunks. But, as you said, setting this up takes time. Probably shorter and easier to chunk smaller pieces. A good experiment. Thanks.
Thanks! I think you're spot on. It would be interesting to time a cycle of each method and see if set up time is double that of a single block system. If it's less that double the time, double blocking would be faster, if it's more that doi le the time, single blocking would be faster.
Yep all that looked like it worked well enough. Thanks. BTW, my heart hurts for those lost in that bus/truck crash recently up there. Realized it was just a few weeks back we were driving that same stretch of I-70 heading back to Columbus to the airport after Bunyan. Stay safe Buddy.
I am very happy I stumbled across this today, I've been trying to put together a system like this the last week! Nice demo with some tips, and why not to have an ultrasling ring on the piece. I'm curious what would be the benefit or detriment of swapping the block and ring positions. Having the block on the piece and the ring as the redirect on the stem. Any thoughts? (I'm trying to make it Knotless and since the block can detach midline I could still use an ultrasling with it on the piece. The other idea I had was to use a dyneema shoft shackle almost as a quick link to connect the ultrasling to itself though, isntead of passing it through itself directly, that way you can still unlink it if you used rings and didn't want to pull all the rope through to undo the sling. But I don't know if I would trust it to be durable enough to use often without worry)
@TylerHope-jb4vx You could set this up wither way. I put the ring on the piece because it's most vulnerable to damage since it's flying to the ground and the ring costs less than the block. You could certainly use an ultra sling, but then you'd have to untreated the rigging rope from the sling every time to get it off, which would probably negate the time savings of the ultra sling 😅 I would avoid using dyneema in a dynamic rigging scenario. Because it doesn't stretch much, it has a low capacity to absorb shocks from dynamic rigging systems. In theory, it would be such a small link that it would probably be okay, but I would still avoid it if possible. I dint know if there is a reason nobody makes soft shackles out of nylon or polyester, but it might be something to experiment with if nobody has tried. Another thing to consider is that soft shackles require some tension to keep them engaged. Alot of dynamic rigging systems might unweight the rope for a moment and cause the soft shackle to come off.
I often use this with half inch work rope, in negative parallel and positive rigging. Turns a 5%swl piece into 2-3% insuring my rope stays very strong and reliable threw a season or two of wear and tear.
Cool video! Just out of curiosity, could you have cut the notches deeper on the chunks you were removing? If they were almost straight up and down, i think that would change their center of gravity and make them tip over a bit easier for you... unlike a full standing tree where you would want to have as much hingewood and control as possible, these would fall amd break away faster. Also, depending on species, kerf cuts may make it a bit safer for you. I learned that the hard way. Stay safe man!
Thanks! I could have made deeper notches so gravity would take the piece instead of me pushing on it. It requires more cut time as angled cuts are the slowest. I also prefer to have the saw shut off and put away before any falling action. I believe it to be safer. And yes, sap wood cuts are important on certain species or at certain times of the year.
I personally haven't done any chunks big enough to push my rope too hard. Have you seen rope glazing much when using rings? I know you were experimenting. I could see myself doing this to do more with my 1/2" rope. Got a spool of Sterling Atlas for 300 bucks so that's what I've been using.
I have not seen much glazing. I don't use rings very much becaise in some of my experimentation they have gotten too hot to touch, and that doesn't seem like a great idea. I don't have any facts to back that up, it's just my intuition. I did think about doing this with a half inch rope and I think that actually might be more worth while than the big stuff we used in the video here. It would definitely be easier to set up, that's for sure. The rigging I used for this was way over kill.
I have not seen much glazing. I don't use rings very much becaise in some of my experimentation they have gotten too hot to touch, and that doesn't seem like a great idea. I don't have any facts to back that up, it's just my intuition. I did think about doing this with a half inch rope and I think that actually might be more worth while than the big stuff we used in the video here. It would definitely be easier to set up, that's for sure. The rigging I used for this was way over kill.
@zaccheus I have a Notch triangular shaped "ring" with the three holes. Maybe this winter I'll see if I can run 1,000# or more thru it and see what happens with the 1/2" rope. There will be more friction at the ring but it has much more mass and bearing area than a regular ring. With shorter trees though, I doubt I'll see a lot of heat. Height will make a big difference.
@boomupengineering I've seen those before and I've thought about buying them. They seem to have a lot of tight bends, but I haven't heard of consistent problems. If you have the chance to measure temperature change with an infrared thermometer, I'd be super interested to see what you come up with.
@@zaccheus I bought one for 40 bucks - couldn't say no. Treestuff or the other shop sometimes has them for cheap. You just have to make your own sling which is easy with Tenex Tec or similar. I have the black triple thimble which I think is a little smaller than the shiny non-anodized one. Hole size might be similar but I think the aluminum colored one has a deeper sling groove. Not sure but Notch changed something and closed out the black ones.
4:00 my feeling is, that the upper sling with the ring should be a bit lower, to minimize the slack in the system. But lets see, certainly it will work for you :-) 6:53 Exactly :-D Great you measured the log and told the weight. BTW do you have any modifications on the MS 500i? It sounds more brutal than mine.
I just have a bark box on there. The mics I used make it sound a little more intense than the gopro mic does. I'm interested in what benefits you see in reducing the amount of rope above the block. I think k I know what you're thinking, but I wanna hear your thoughts 😊
@@zaccheus For the sake of simplicity, lets say that termination of you rigging rope was at the same high as the yellow block. Then lets say that from the block to the ring it was 1 meter. So after you tip the log over, it will fall 2 meters until the rope will catch the log. Lot of speed, lot of energy. On the 2nd attempt it looked like distance from block to ring was only 20 cm, so free fall part was only 40 cm - in that distance the log had less time to accelerate. If your groundsman is good, then no problem in both situations, but if he had 4 raps, I would say that in the 1st case the rope would tear apart, in the 2nd case it would have more chance to survive. Experienced groundsman is a bless :-)
@jakubhostinsky4482 Haha yes, I would agree that a quality ground man is worth his weight in gold! You can only rig as good as the ground crew can rig. I think more than the linear amount of rope above the block, the distance between the block and the cut matters.
That 500 has a 25" on it most of the time. I do keep a 36" in the truck for the rare occasions that I need it. I go to every job with just a 201T and a 500i. Seems to be a good pair for me.
Very good clip. I would never cut pieces like this because it's insane :) but I'm glad to see it's possible. I wish you good health! Много добър клип. Никога не бих рязал подобни парчета защото е безумие :), но се радвам да видя че е възможно. Много здраве желая!
Yessir! Good eye! 58lb per cubic foot according to the chart. Though I imagine water content changes heavily in cottonwood based on the season and weather.
Thanks! You need 150% the amount of rope that you'd would normally need. I'd imagine you'd only need to use this pretty low in the tree, though. Might be worth using to reduce load on a spar high in the tree, but I think it would only reduce it by 25%.
Beautiful demonstration my man! The proof is in the pudding.. i still cant believe that was one wrap. My question would be had that been oak would you have done anything different?
Thanks, Stephen! I probably would have aimed for a little smaller piece if it was a heavier wood. I didn't want to push the limits too hard on the first go around. I think a key component to using one wrap was using a fat rope. That 3/4 grabs on a friction bollard way harder than smaller diameter line.
@@zaccheus definitely! We were tip tying whole maple leads the other day off a 3/4 rope, i was running the ropes for the day and found myself loading the bollard, but as the day went on I reduced the number of wraps and found 2 wraps was the sweet spot! Never would i try that with a 1/2 line lol
@stephencentola lol for sure! Did you guys have a good way to pretension then and stand them up, or were you just sweating the line and dropping the leads into it?
The set up did take a minute for sure. For that reason I probably would not rush to this technique. However I think it would go a little faster with lighter rigging equipment. I definitely used bigger gear than necessary on this tree.
Ive never tried a safebloc. Thinking a moment produced these thoughts for me: the safebloc would reduce force on the stem for sure, but double blocking will reduce force on the rope and a little bit on the spar. The safebloc has some really tight bends which makes me nervous for use with big ropes and heavy loads. The safebloc would definitely have a faster cycle time.
I have the smaller brother of the SafeBlock...the triangular one. But I have not yet pushed it very hard. It does have a lot more mass than a ring but it will also be generating more heat than a ring since there is more friction at the triple thimble. But with more friction in the tree, there will be less load pulling down on the block. One of these days I'll cut some bigger chunks and see what kind of temperatures I see. However, that will depend greatly on how far the chunks free-fall, how fast you slow them down and how far they drop to the ground. Many variables as to how much heat is generated and how hot the triple thimble will get.
@@boomupengineering I have the SafeBloc and the triangular rigging thimble. I like both, but the triangular hockles the rope while the SafeBloc does not.
Hey, buddy, I got a question for you. I have the monkey beaver 2.0 I just got an adjustable bridge for it. The Rigoing plates on the monkey beaver 2.0 , can I hook the petezl ring open directly to the Rigging plate? Do you think that would be okay if that makes sense?
Mmmm I'm not sure. I'd say aluminum on aluminum will definitely wear faster than textile on aluminum. I'm at the tci show today, I'll see if I can stop by the monkey beaver booth and ask them for yah.
@@zaccheus Yeah, if you could do that, that would be great buddy. I see, in their video they have on their test. Dummy it hooked to the straps. But I don't know if I have to do that or not, thank you so much.
I spoke with Joe and said they put it right on the textiles and it still leaves plenty of room to connect a flip line. My opinion is that eliminating the plate and running just the ring would be far superior to putting the ring on the plate. It would help you get the bridge way shorter, and it would last much longer than the ring on the hard corners of the playe.
@@zaccheus I thought about driving to the TCI show to wander around but got distracted by looking at a truck project. I will now be finishing a project truck: 1997 Ford F250 Cummins 4x4 5 speed. Probably good I didn't go to the TCI show cause I'm sure I'd have found something to spend $$ on.
@@zaccheus Thank you, buddy so much so you mean. I should put the ring on the actual leg straps. Where the rigging plate is? Is that what you mean? I don't want to do it wrong, thank you, buddy.
It wasn't my rope we used on the project, but I believe it was 3/4. It was way overkill. We could have done this on 9/16 or I'm thinking maybe even half inch, but that would have really been pushing the limits of appropriate load for that rope I think.
Great video bra! i think you might’ve got a bit confused when you said the total amount of rope needed. In this system you’d be using 3x the standing height from where your block is 🤙🏽 also that half hitch was brilliant
Great demo mate. If you cut notches for your slings they won't slip as much 👌
That's a great tip. I don't know if it would decrease or increase shock loading or not. I'll have to think about that 🤔
The first time I saw this, they didn't have quite enough rope and it slipped out of the hand of the groundie, making a bit of a bang. No harm no foul. Gotta think the groundies need to be sure they don't get a twist in the line so progress doesn't come to a dramatic halt. Fun demo.
Oh wow, I can see how that might happen. It does take more rope than expected for sure. Thanks!
Enjoyed the video. Very interesting. A good rigging method if you're dropping Heavy spar chunks. But, as you said, setting this up takes time. Probably shorter and easier to chunk smaller pieces. A good experiment. Thanks.
Thanks! I think you're spot on. It would be interesting to time a cycle of each method and see if set up time is double that of a single block system. If it's less that double the time, double blocking would be faster, if it's more that doi le the time, single blocking would be faster.
Thanks for the demo Z! Looks like it worked well enough to keep in the "toolbox" under our helmets.
You're welcome! I think it's one of those things that might be handy in just the right scenario some day.
Yep all that looked like it worked well enough. Thanks. BTW, my heart hurts for those lost in that bus/truck crash recently up there. Realized it was just a few weeks back we were driving that same stretch of I-70 heading back to Columbus to the airport after Bunyan. Stay safe Buddy.
Yes absolutely, that was an incredibly tragic accident. I can't imagine sending my kid off to a school event and never seeing them again. So sad.
Cool video! I’ve never seen this done before thanks a lot for sharing!
You're welcome!
I am very happy I stumbled across this today, I've been trying to put together a system like this the last week! Nice demo with some tips, and why not to have an ultrasling ring on the piece. I'm curious what would be the benefit or detriment of swapping the block and ring positions. Having the block on the piece and the ring as the redirect on the stem. Any thoughts?
(I'm trying to make it Knotless and since the block can detach midline I could still use an ultrasling with it on the piece. The other idea I had was to use a dyneema shoft shackle almost as a quick link to connect the ultrasling to itself though, isntead of passing it through itself directly, that way you can still unlink it if you used rings and didn't want to pull all the rope through to undo the sling. But I don't know if I would trust it to be durable enough to use often without worry)
@TylerHope-jb4vx You could set this up wither way. I put the ring on the piece because it's most vulnerable to damage since it's flying to the ground and the ring costs less than the block. You could certainly use an ultra sling, but then you'd have to untreated the rigging rope from the sling every time to get it off, which would probably negate the time savings of the ultra sling 😅
I would avoid using dyneema in a dynamic rigging scenario. Because it doesn't stretch much, it has a low capacity to absorb shocks from dynamic rigging systems. In theory, it would be such a small link that it would probably be okay, but I would still avoid it if possible.
I dint know if there is a reason nobody makes soft shackles out of nylon or polyester, but it might be something to experiment with if nobody has tried.
Another thing to consider is that soft shackles require some tension to keep them engaged. Alot of dynamic rigging systems might unweight the rope for a moment and cause the soft shackle to come off.
I often use this with half inch work rope, in negative parallel and positive rigging. Turns a 5%swl piece into 2-3% insuring my rope stays very strong and reliable threw a season or two of wear and tear.
Thays a great perspective! I can see several benefits to that and with smaller equipment, it would be pretty quick to set up probably
Great video! Great job explaining this technique
Thanks Sean!
Cool video! Just out of curiosity, could you have cut the notches deeper on the chunks you were removing? If they were almost straight up and down, i think that would change their center of gravity and make them tip over a bit easier for you... unlike a full standing tree where you would want to have as much hingewood and control as possible, these would fall amd break away faster. Also, depending on species, kerf cuts may make it a bit safer for you. I learned that the hard way. Stay safe man!
Thanks! I could have made deeper notches so gravity would take the piece instead of me pushing on it. It requires more cut time as angled cuts are the slowest. I also prefer to have the saw shut off and put away before any falling action. I believe it to be safer. And yes, sap wood cuts are important on certain species or at certain times of the year.
I personally haven't done any chunks big enough to push my rope too hard. Have you seen rope glazing much when using rings? I know you were experimenting. I could see myself doing this to do more with my 1/2" rope. Got a spool of Sterling Atlas for 300 bucks so that's what I've been using.
I have not seen much glazing. I don't use rings very much becaise in some of my experimentation they have gotten too hot to touch, and that doesn't seem like a great idea. I don't have any facts to back that up, it's just my intuition. I did think about doing this with a half inch rope and I think that actually might be more worth while than the big stuff we used in the video here. It would definitely be easier to set up, that's for sure. The rigging I used for this was way over kill.
I have not seen much glazing. I don't use rings very much becaise in some of my experimentation they have gotten too hot to touch, and that doesn't seem like a great idea. I don't have any facts to back that up, it's just my intuition. I did think about doing this with a half inch rope and I think that actually might be more worth while than the big stuff we used in the video here. It would definitely be easier to set up, that's for sure. The rigging I used for this was way over kill.
@zaccheus I have a Notch triangular shaped "ring" with the three holes. Maybe this winter I'll see if I can run 1,000# or more thru it and see what happens with the 1/2" rope. There will be more friction at the ring but it has much more mass and bearing area than a regular ring. With shorter trees though, I doubt I'll see a lot of heat. Height will make a big difference.
@boomupengineering I've seen those before and I've thought about buying them. They seem to have a lot of tight bends, but I haven't heard of consistent problems. If you have the chance to measure temperature change with an infrared thermometer, I'd be super interested to see what you come up with.
@@zaccheus I bought one for 40 bucks - couldn't say no. Treestuff or the other shop sometimes has them for cheap. You just have to make your own sling which is easy with Tenex Tec or similar. I have the black triple thimble which I think is a little smaller than the shiny non-anodized one. Hole size might be similar but I think the aluminum colored one has a deeper sling groove. Not sure but Notch changed something and closed out the black ones.
Nice work bro! I love span rigging.
Span rigging is the berries!
Thanks for showing this. I’ve been wanting to try it for a while.
Youre welcome! If you ever have the time, I'd say try it before you need it.
Nice job
Thanks Jeff!
Love watching your videos. What app was you using to get the weight of the log?
Log weight pro! It's free on both app stores as far as I know
4:00 my feeling is, that the upper sling with the ring should be a bit lower, to minimize the slack in the system. But lets see, certainly it will work for you :-)
6:53 Exactly :-D
Great you measured the log and told the weight. BTW do you have any modifications on the MS 500i? It sounds more brutal than mine.
I just have a bark box on there. The mics I used make it sound a little more intense than the gopro mic does.
I'm interested in what benefits you see in reducing the amount of rope above the block. I think k I know what you're thinking, but I wanna hear your thoughts 😊
@@zaccheus For the sake of simplicity, lets say that termination of you rigging rope was at the same high as the yellow block. Then lets say that from the block to the ring it was 1 meter. So after you tip the log over, it will fall 2 meters until the rope will catch the log. Lot of speed, lot of energy. On the 2nd attempt it looked like distance from block to ring was only 20 cm, so free fall part was only 40 cm - in that distance the log had less time to accelerate. If your groundsman is good, then no problem in both situations, but if he had 4 raps, I would say that in the 1st case the rope would tear apart, in the 2nd case it would have more chance to survive. Experienced groundsman is a bless :-)
@jakubhostinsky4482 Haha yes, I would agree that a quality ground man is worth his weight in gold! You can only rig as good as the ground crew can rig. I think more than the linear amount of rope above the block, the distance between the block and the cut matters.
What size barr you got on that saw seems like a good size when you also climb with it
That 500 has a 25" on it most of the time. I do keep a 36" in the truck for the rare occasions that I need it. I go to every job with just a 201T and a 500i. Seems to be a good pair for me.
Very good clip. I would never cut pieces like this because it's insane :) but I'm glad to see it's possible. I wish you good health!
Много добър клип. Никога не бих рязал подобни парчета защото е безумие :), но се радвам да видя че е възможно. Много здраве желая!
Haha there nothing wrong with keeping the pieces small. Small pieces mean small problems!
I do almost all the work myself /like Spencer/ and so I cut into as many small pieces as possible. Greetings!@@zaccheus
@@spwoodbulgaria If you work alone, that makes great sense!
Was that cottonwood?
Yessir! Good eye! 58lb per cubic foot according to the chart. Though I imagine water content changes heavily in cottonwood based on the season and weather.
@@zaccheus cottonwood is a weird wood. It saws like shredded cheese lol.
@@mcsawmill lol it's definitely an odd one among the poplars
Nice!!!!!!!!!!
Haha thanks 😁
Great video. One thing I was wondering though, do you need 2 or 3 times the amount of rope for this technique?
Thanks! You need 150% the amount of rope that you'd would normally need. I'd imagine you'd only need to use this pretty low in the tree, though. Might be worth using to reduce load on a spar high in the tree, but I think it would only reduce it by 25%.
Great vid Zac. Which green log app do you use?
Thanks! It's called log weight pro, some folks have had trouble downloading it with newer phones, but maybe they have the kinks worked out by now.
Beautiful demonstration my man! The proof is in the pudding.. i still cant believe that was one wrap. My question would be had that been oak would you have done anything different?
Thanks, Stephen! I probably would have aimed for a little smaller piece if it was a heavier wood. I didn't want to push the limits too hard on the first go around. I think a key component to using one wrap was using a fat rope. That 3/4 grabs on a friction bollard way harder than smaller diameter line.
@@zaccheus definitely! We were tip tying whole maple leads the other day off a 3/4 rope, i was running the ropes for the day and found myself loading the bollard, but as the day went on I reduced the number of wraps and found 2 wraps was the sweet spot! Never would i try that with a 1/2 line lol
@stephencentola lol for sure! Did you guys have a good way to pretension then and stand them up, or were you just sweating the line and dropping the leads into it?
Very cool demo. That's some time consuming rigging
The set up did take a minute for sure. For that reason I probably would not rush to this technique. However I think it would go a little faster with lighter rigging equipment. I definitely used bigger gear than necessary on this tree.
You prefer this setup to a SafeBloc?
Ive never tried a safebloc. Thinking a moment produced these thoughts for me: the safebloc would reduce force on the stem for sure, but double blocking will reduce force on the rope and a little bit on the spar. The safebloc has some really tight bends which makes me nervous for use with big ropes and heavy loads. The safebloc would definitely have a faster cycle time.
I have the smaller brother of the SafeBlock...the triangular one. But I have not yet pushed it very hard. It does have a lot more mass than a ring but it will also be generating more heat than a ring since there is more friction at the triple thimble. But with more friction in the tree, there will be less load pulling down on the block. One of these days I'll cut some bigger chunks and see what kind of temperatures I see. However, that will depend greatly on how far the chunks free-fall, how fast you slow them down and how far they drop to the ground. Many variables as to how much heat is generated and how hot the triple thimble will get.
@@boomupengineering I have the SafeBloc and the triangular rigging thimble. I like both, but the triangular hockles the rope while the SafeBloc does not.
@@small-town-southern-man3573Good to know. Safebloc may have a strong edge.
@@boomupengineering The rigging thimble shines on smaller stuff when the only objective is to lessen forces on the top. But it hockles terribly.
663 kg log not bad
Ah, I'm sorry I didn't put the metric units in there for you. I forget to do that often. Thanks for adding that in the comments here.
and to think ive rigged pieces this size on a 1/2" line with a single ring and home made portawrap
how am I still alive?
By the grace of God probably. It certainly isn't due to your decision making 😅
@@zaccheus lol, thats probably true!
Hey, buddy, I got a question for you. I have the monkey beaver 2.0 I just got an adjustable bridge for it. The Rigoing plates on the monkey beaver 2.0 , can I hook the petezl ring open directly to the Rigging plate? Do you think that would be okay if that makes sense?
Mmmm I'm not sure. I'd say aluminum on aluminum will definitely wear faster than textile on aluminum. I'm at the tci show today, I'll see if I can stop by the monkey beaver booth and ask them for yah.
@@zaccheus Yeah, if you could do that, that would be great buddy. I see, in their video they have on their test. Dummy it hooked to the straps. But I don't know if I have to do that or not, thank you so much.
I spoke with Joe and said they put it right on the textiles and it still leaves plenty of room to connect a flip line. My opinion is that eliminating the plate and running just the ring would be far superior to putting the ring on the plate. It would help you get the bridge way shorter, and it would last much longer than the ring on the hard corners of the playe.
@@zaccheus I thought about driving to the TCI show to wander around but got distracted by looking at a truck project. I will now be finishing a project truck: 1997 Ford F250 Cummins 4x4 5 speed. Probably good I didn't go to the TCI show cause I'm sure I'd have found something to spend $$ on.
@@zaccheus Thank you, buddy so much so you mean. I should put the ring on the actual leg straps. Where the rigging plate is? Is that what you mean? I don't want to do it wrong, thank you, buddy.
Where do you buy all your ropes and rigging equipment Zacheus? You are bad to the bone in a tree man!
@RC-Heli835 Thanks man! I get most of my stuff through my local arborist shop. They sell online too. Endorstreegear.com
@zaccheus OK thanks!
What rope are you using Samson stable braid 5/8?
It wasn't my rope we used on the project, but I believe it was 3/4. It was way overkill. We could have done this on 9/16 or I'm thinking maybe even half inch, but that would have really been pushing the limits of appropriate load for that rope I think.
90 feet of rope instead of 60 feet of rope if the stem is 30 feet
Absolutely! I got caught up in my words and explained it wrong 😅 thank you for offering the correct information for others to see here 😊
Thank you for this video. I will be using this trick soon when lowering some large pine chunks 10 ft from the utilities and house side. Gets It
Nice! That sounds like a tight job!
It’s amazing how much a tree weighs
Absolutely! And ever more incredible to think that the tree lifted all that weight over time.
Great video bra! i think you might’ve got a bit confused when you said the total amount of rope needed. In this system you’d be using 3x the standing height from where your block is 🤙🏽 also that half hitch was brilliant
Yes, I realized I misspoke when I was editing and it was too late to fix 😅 Thanks for catching that!
That was about a 1500 pound log. That was great buddy, good job I like that set up.
Thanks Bill! I was mighty impressed with it myself