John Deere 170 with the Kawasaki FC420V is Running Part 3
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- Опубликовано: 14 окт 2024
- Alright Alright! After going around in circles trying to troubleshoot the engine, it is now running good and strong again.
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I'm still mowing with my father's 1989 170. It has a history of being hard on spark plugs. Seems to need a new one every season, even though the gap, etc. looks fine. I just replaced the rear end transaxle this weekend (the original finally locked up after 35 yrs). It is worth keeping these old mowers running. They don't make small mowers like this anymore. That Kawasaki still runs like I remember the day he bought it.
Spark plug was my problem too. Thank you for detailed video. Every time I checked spark I had it. But after a lot of time spent doing everything I could think of, and after watching your video, I decided to change both plugs on 661v engine in a JD320 lawn tractor. I’m back in business. Thanks!!
Awesome. I'm glad it helped you out!
My JD 185 was backfiring the same as your video. I had also replaced the coil and BPR7ES plug. I then had lots of spark but it backfired. I did the same as you did and put in a BPR6ES plug and BAM it started up right away and has run ever since. So thankful I watched your video. Thanks so much.
Awesome! I'm glad it helped!
Hey Mate
Just wanted to say a huge thank you
You’re a bloody legend
Been going through all of this for 6 months now, was about to burn it to the ground
Had it fixed in mins
Appreciate your patience and sharing
Glad it helped! 👍👍
Great video. Always a killer when you have multiple issues electrically. Well done.
yeh, it plays with your mind sometimes
Exact same mower, engine, and problem…. followed each of the 3 videos before doing anything. Replaced ignition coil (the new coil included new spark plug wire and new boot) , new igniter, and new spark plug…. Success!!!
Alright!
Thank you. Same engine same issue. Spark plug replacement fixed it. Thank you
Loved this! Found it today after experiencing the same issue. Watched all the way through. Stopped at Northern tool, found a BPR6ES, thru it in and she fired right up. Mowed 1/2 the yard before dark just now. Note: the tuneup kit I bought this spring was the source of the BPR5ES, a mistake that seems widespread, given the number of folks experiencing the same problem…
Awesome. Glad it helped you out!
I think we all learned from this series of videos so the simple fix taught some good lessons.
Great videos ! I was having the same problem with this engine on my JD. I followed your troubleshooting and yes it came Alive ! Thanks for your videos !!!
Hey I'm jimmy the owner of tool guys thank u for the video regarding the Kawasaki fc420v I was going through the same issue change out spark plug machines works great 👍
Great troubleshooting. Most people today would buy a new tractor. Some would replace the motor. Few have the smarts or patience to do what you did.
ill be damn had the same issue went and bought the Bpr6es replaced a BPR5es fired right up..would never of thought that..
I would never have guessed either. I hope I saved you some time...👍👍
I had the same problem on a 240 that has the same engine. Tried all of the same things you have tried. Changing the plug to the hotter 6e worked wonders. Still working after 6 months. Wish I had seen your solution video earlier and it would have saved me some time!
Well done! Maybe a defect in the porcelain or crack allowing the spark to jump across inside the plug under certain conditions.
Now you could go back and check all those other parts to see which are good and which are bad. Pain when 2 or 3 three things combine to cause an issue. Hard to tell which is good and which is bad. Helps to have another good running engine to test parts on, but that is a luxury most people don't have. A friend with a similar engine works great!
I would look at the spark plug cap too. I would replace the cap and examine the condition of the plug wire at the cap. It tends to vibrate loose and/or corrode over time.
I was happy to see this as I am having the same problem. I've done all the things you did (including the plug) except the igniter. It still backfires when trying to start but WILL start and run well after a short shot of starting fluid. I get the feeling if it turned over faster it would start.
mine is doing the same thing and ive done everything you did cant wait to see what you find
I respect your patience, perseverance and your process of talking things out! Great job.. Thanks for sharing
Nice to see people still maintianing these 90's era mowers. My 175 is 33 this year, bought new and still cuts lok a golf course her in the short Wisconsin summers
I have the same machine and its doing the same thing.. thanks man for the help
Same problem as me, I have the Kubota T1560 tried everything, then tried your fix on part 3 and I Worked 💪 Thanks mate,
Glad it helped! 👍👍
wow that was it found a old plug in the shop took it a minute to clear the crap out now runs perfect glad i didnt pull the head. you saved me so much time and money great vidio
Awesome! Glad the video helped.
Probaly engine was flooded, like big time, cab repair, interchange plugs, lots of cranking , dry plugs , finally started, you’re a good mechanic, probably talking to camera give’s you ability to analyze problems, keep filming,
I had the same exact problem same sounds same backfire did every thing in the book and video, went and put a brand new NGK BPR6ES fired right up and runs like a top. I'm both happy and mad about this lol
It can be frustrating sometimes, but it's great to get them running and keep them running.
Thanks for all your fine detective skills.
I have a jd 240 mower that had the same problems. After trying some of the same things you did in your videos I saw your solution and it reminded me that I put in a new plug last summer and my problems started a little after that. So I bought the NGK BRR6ES and put it in. Runs great for now( only ran it a short time.) Thanks so much.
I'm glad it worked for you.👍👍
Top Draw - done the same on my Bobcat, worked a treat, thank you.
Your are a life saver! I was so frustrated with my mower I was about to junk or set it on fire! My next step would have been exactly what you were thinking, camshaft, but as you I was hesitant of pulling the trigger. Then I ran into your video while searching for 'briggs weak spark' and I am so glad I did. I know I had a brand new set of plugs somewhere and to my surprise what I thought was my Mustang's plugs were in fact my mower plugs. Sure enough, I had mistakenly swapped my mower and car plugs which in any other mower may have worked but the mower coil output is not strong to fully energize the resistor plugs used on the Mustang. These plugs have a built in resistor to prevent ignition noise from getting on your radio and other car electronics. That was enough to keep the coils on the mower from firing the spark plugs with enough energy to properly run the engine. I had swapped the plugs twice before but each time I used my car's plugs (I had 8 of them!!) The mower is now running like new, and no, the Mustang doesn't have mower plugs. I checked! haha! Thank you!
I know this sounds crazy but after 13 years with my particular tractor I usually just need a brand new battery 🤷🏼♂️. That’s just what’s almost always worked. After much other fixes of course. I’m just glad to know I’m not the only one here. 👍
She’s definitely a Christine !!! I love troubleshooting fixing my John Deere until it’s time to cut the grass and you haven’t figured it out. 😳
Man, Thank you so much for sharing this! You've helped so many of us.
did a 170 today no spark the new after market coils you put them on upside down remove the igniter junk it make the plug wire longer and perfect no more igniter to worry about
Had a similar experience. Changed ignitor and coil still no or weak spark . Re-checked everything and found a phantom dc voltage on the kill wire from the switch, but only with the coil and ignitor un hooked. bypassed the wire from the coil to the ignitor module and voilla good hot spark. I cut the wire going to the switch???? it's picking up a phantom dc voltage.
The backfiring was from the plug only firing on waste spark but not on on compression. Old shop spark plug testers had a pressure chamber with a window.. A bad plug would fire with no pressure but at compression pressures wouldn't or intermittent.
Thanks for the great videos! I had a similar problem with a JD445 which has a kawasaki 22hp twin. The connector inside the spark plug boot had come loose and was intermittently supply spark.
That happens sometimes!
Thank you sir, have a blessed day bro
You too👍👍
Thank you for sharing your process!
Thanks for making this video, I had the exact same problem and went thru the same diagnostics as you with the same results. I had just about given up until I saw this video. Everything is working fine now. Thanks again
Awesome! Glad it helped!
It would be interesting to compare resistance measurements of the old spark plug vs the new plug that works.
Yes, I was going to do that today!
I had this same problem.
The spark plug had an internal open, measuring pretty much an open circuit. There was no external indication of cracks or overheating. Crushing the upper insulator did not reveal a problem, so the fault must have been in the threaded section of the plug where I couldn't crush the insulator without being certain that I was creating a new 'fault', rather than the original failure.
Of course I only did this only after a bunch of work for more obvious problems: cleaning the carb, setting the valve clearance, inspecting the pushrods, valve springs, etc. A spark plug "never" goes bad. This was a first for me. It did still look fine, and the symptoms of almost running and massive backfires pointed to everything else.
careful running it too long without the shroud for too long will overheat without proper air flow over fins
I called it, I said it was an electrical problem. And sure enough, it was. Good job with getting the John Deer running again. I'm glad that I was able to help out. 👍🏿
You Are The Man!!! LOve It.
I appreciate that!
I had the exact same problem as you. I adjusted valves by grinding the ends to get .005 clearance, changed spark plugs. I was getting spark to my plugs but not under load.
What I did that fixed it was the coil air gap was too big, set it to .012 and it ran like a top.
Just wondering if you work on a lot of these mowers. Great video!!!
Thank you. I had the same symptoms as you experienced. FC420V with a stuck exhaust vale. removed the head, made everything right again and it wouldn’t run. Backfired but wouldn’t run. Followed your steps, once I cleaned the carburetor it ran perfectly. Wonder if it had something to do with how we stored the carb to accommodate removal of the head. In any event, you saved me a ton of time and I am grateful.
Hey man, i can`t belive this! I´ve been working on my JD180 for many weeks!
Now i see this and must test this on my FC540V! Thanks a lot for this Video!
GREAT JOB!!!
I inherited one just like this ..Awesome this saves me lots of time and headache!!!! Thanks. Any thoughts on trans axle issues?
Wow! Crazy. I was actually wondering if one of the lobes were bad on the camshaft.
swap the bad plug back in it now and see what happens. let's see you do this in part 4. Awesome vid on this. Best out there by far!
Thanks , my lx 176 same engine was backfireing and would not run .. First thing I checked was the plug but it looked good ! I wasn't worried about getting spark because it was backfireing... I changed out the igniter no luck. and I pulled the Flywheel but that wasn't it . the key was perfect... So I then mixed up a little gas engine treatment stuff from Walmart and some gas . I put in a new plug and it fired right up ... I noticed the gap of the new plug was a lot tighter to hsn the old .. Any way
I want to thank you for your persistance ... It made me persistent too! my wife said sell that thing .. I bought it 15 years ago for 225$ and it's been a great mower . All it needed was a flat fixed and a battery .. Any way I've been wrenching on it for 15 years and I know it well now ...
Awesome! They are great mowers.👍👍👍
@@SmallEngineDIY Thanks for the comeback ... I am subscribed! keep up the good work !
The transmission in these mowers is called SHIFT ON THE GO, not power shift. If you don't push the clutch pedal down when shifting, you possibly in time will break the shift keys in the transmission which will require a complete tear down to replace them.
Wait till it's dark outside, then crank it over and look for electrical leaks in the wires and between the engine and frame, it could be an intermittent ground out.
Thanks for info on JD170 as I have one too. Wondering if you have a video about putting the deck off and on. Mine is spring loaded on the brake side. I got it off to clean up and want to make sure I get it back on right.
I actually have a video. Search for the video on restoring the 170.
I got conned into working on a friend's 170. Same problem!! We replaced the carbonator and ignitor module (JD sure is proud of them!!) When I took the spark plug out and watched the spark it looked odd. Seemed to spark at odd times, Reminded me of a model T buzz coil. Very strange.... I have an old neon timing light from 1960's that showed the timing.The light looked good, a rhythmic flash, not the sort of random flash that the BPE 5 plug showed when I removed it and layed it on the engine. I went through the valves, timing, everything you did. I was about ready to cry, when I remembered I hadn't changed the spark plug. It was a new one the owner installed. I did, like you, and found a BPE 6 and, like you, it started and ran fine. The owner took it home and got another BPE 5 plug And installed it. It only ran once with the new plug. He put the old BPE 6 in and it's still going strong.
Now for the kicker! I own a 172 with the same engine. Been going strong for years. I went to start it and I shot squirt of gas into the carb and cranked it. It didn't fire right up like I expected but before I stopped cranking I got a big backfire out the carbonator. I've seen this before! I suspect the flywheels are some how becoming magnetized enough to set off the igniter and make a spark at random times. I think there are magnets inside the flywheel for the charging system. And why will they run on the BPR 6 plug???? I haven't fixed mine yet, but I know where to look.. Gotta be ALIENS!!!
The BPR5 and the BLR6 are the same size, but one of them has a hotter spark than the other. Can't remember which one is which. I know I had a bad batch of BPR5 plugs that didn't work on anything.
@@SmallEngineDIY The plug in my engine has been in it since I got it. Probably 6-7 years. The BPR 5 is the hotter one according to the internet. I plan to play with the plug gap and then maybe the coil spacing from the flywheel. I wish I had a way to test the magnetic field of the flywheel. You had a bad batch of plugs...... Hmmmm...Maybe I should get one from a different manufacturer. Thanks for sharing.
I finally got back to my mower. Checked the plug gap, .035 like the book says. I checked the gap on the plug I removed from my friend's and it was more like .032. I changed the gap on my old plug to .040. Reinstalled it and shazam!! all fixed. I wish I understood what I did....... Most of my stuff is breaker points. They have problems, but not like this.
Thanks for the great video's! Do you know the size of air filter this engine calls for? I have the same exact mower and engine as you have here I just bought for cheap, thanks?
I hear ya man ,I went though nearly everything you've done to yours and for whatever reason it decided to fire up ,I'm clueless, new carburetor, new fuel pump ,flywheel alignment, 3 different plugs ,gapped the valves and not one single thing made it run it just finally fired up and decided to stay running. I can't really say what fixed it 😆 ..I hve the JD 260 w/ FC540V engine but I noticed you have a solenoid or something on the bottom of your carb ,mine doesn't have that ,I'm assuming it helps with backfire? Is that something they moved to with later models ? Thanks
There is a part inside the spark plug boot that goes bad. Had the same problem myself
I have seen that on GX series Honda engines, I keep new ones in stock now
Just unscrew it from coil wire and screw in new one
I’ve had that also
I homed out every thing. Sanded the coil and coil mounts. Changed out original mikuni fuel pump. Voila. Runs perfectly
Worked for me. Today. Was driving me nuts. Used a fuel pump of a xmark
I remember a video where someone was chasing misfires in his classic car. Turns out a spark plug had a manufacturing defect
I’ve a 185!with 540 engine , same problem 🥲
I had same issues. Just unplugged the fuel solenoid and it cranked right up. The only purpose of solenoid is to prevent backfires. After disconnecting solenoid wire, engine cranks up and I have had no backfires. No need to replace, it's not really needed.
That was a strange one!
I think the spark plug boot was not making the connection to the plug. O have the same machine. I peeled off a bit of the cable and made sure it was connected to the metal piece inside the boot.
So it was the spark plugs?????
Did you remove them, did you check the plug to ground for spark ???
Turns out I had a few bad plugs. They were new, but gave limited spark.
Going to give you a fair warning... When working with Fuel around Spark ALWAYS pull your plug boot off
Try it with starting fluid ??
See if plugs fould
The plugs that are not projected have a tendency to foul especially when choked
every thing has be tight , grounds at all bolt locations must but tight coil must be coneced, has external components must conected , reason is bad ground and wire to ign must normal off when tring to start engine , i have a 1988 240 john derre with the same engine must fully assembled to run fuuullly ! yeah is that critical
Cracked flywheel?
I'm chasing the same problem I guess I don't know what happened with my mower it was running good then it quit running
Someone stole my battery and cut the wire. How u think i can fix it
One thing I don't find bad , spark plug 😫blows my mind .
Hey man, maybe you can help me. I have the same mower. When I pulled it out this year it wouldn't start from the key, so I have to jump it on the starter. You think it's a bad key switch or something else? backfires when I shut er off but otherwise running like a dream. Thanks for your advice!
I'm trying to identify the problem but I really don't know where to start
I see a spark ark between the muffler and the frame when you crank it. @ about the 20 minute mark.
Sup with that???
Have you ever heard of starting fluid it's a lot cheaper than buying starters when you throw the Sauder out for cranking them too long starting fluid is a real good thing it just one little squirrel get it started running and then it'll pick up from there
Drilled out the main jet just a little too.
I have kaw fc540.
Check your safety shutoff seat switch
Mine idel,is to high,how do I idle it down
will find a new plug it has a new one but it may be bad it sparks but hey ill try anything at this point
You have to break the plunger off.
That was wild
yes it was
I never use NGK. Champion 👍
WOW l had the same thing with a John Deere that l have.
is there a air lock
What is the part number please
Run a compression check. Seeing as your having to Choke a hot engine, tells me that you might also have low compression.
I checked the compression in a previous video. It was OK.
what would low compression do? does it kill power? how to fix?
@@SmallEngineDIY you checked it while it was hot or cold?
@@SmallEngineDIY I bet while its hot your compression is setting around 20psi
Beware of the counterfeit spark plug.
Yes...I ran into a batch of fake NGKs. sucked...
I had to clean my gas tank,n redo the carburatetor,that's what I'm doing now
It’s a weak coil. One plug has less resistance. It’s not the plugs. The coil is too weak to fire the new plug in the cylinder
If you don't get some starting fluid I don't know what to tell you I have never seen anybody as ill-equipped to work on something I'm pretty sure the problem has nothing to do with you unhooking the fuel line and I'm pretty sure it has to do with spark and it could have one of those electronic ignition some kind of spark control module on it that is probably causing the problem I know Kohler had that for a little while and then they retrofitted it back to eliminate that because that was such a pain in the ass and it did not work that's probably the problem with that Kawasaki I don't know if it has that but I just about bet that's what it is cuz you have an intermittent issue so it's either of coil that's going in and out but I have yet to see you put an actual spark tester on there so we can see if it has a spark get some starting fluid one little spray will either make it fire or not and then you won't have to sit there and crank and crank and crank on the starter
You failed to check the spark the proper way you need A spark tester 144 thousands if it will jump that it will run,, I have seen new plugs that were defective,
Ignitor ground is bad. Go to dip stick for ground.
I don’t use the light tester, only the bridge type where the spark has to jump across or it’s too weak period
Try a new spark plug
are you effing kiding me?
Most expensive spark plug ever
I have same engine on 165 hydro
And the bottom porcelain broke it would slide down and not get spark at the tip
I have the same mower. I need a new carburetor but I don’t have do serial number. U think I you can send me yours Serial number
Don't run it so long without the cover. It's air cooled engine that us not getting cooled.
This is painful to watch....is it just me?