You are exactly right. He was after the dollar, and didn’t care a bit about stewardship. Every landowner should put stewardship ahead of profit. It’s our responsibility as landowners!
Good for you if i was hunting the property i wouldnt log it thats just me to me taking to many hemlock ruins the cover for wintering deer lot of these propertys ar cutting them all deer need hemlock to make it through its good to cut like you said to make new growth
We have had several that want our timber. We've been saying 'No' for 3 or 4 decades. My husband knows how to manage our woods. My brother unfortunately said 'Yes'. He got probably 1/2 of what it was worth. And a whole mess of tree tops all over the place. No thanks. Plus there's the honesty factor.
Smart move! Foresters will also write the contracts with the loggers to include clauses that penalize loggers for issues such as scarred up trees (such as the one you pointed out), slash clean up, high stumps, ect. How do I know? I used to be a consultant forester. Obviously, the best way to protect your land is to hire a forester. In some states there are foresters hired by the State that help private landowners as well. You should look into them, as State's usually require them to have college degrees and seven years training. They are top notch. The drawback to hiring a forester is that loggers hate working with them because they no longer have free reign over the properties they are logging. One more idea that I would recommend is having the forester do a selective harvest and pre-commercial thinning. This leaves the biggest and best trees to reseed the forests after the harvest is complete thereby insuring that the best genetics and phenotypes are left in the forest. The harvesting that the logger you talked to is doing is sometimes called "high-grading". Taking all the best trees and leaving the small stuff behind.
You did the right thing! Everyone I know that has had their property logged was very disappointed afterwards. I've cut a great deal of firewood on tracts after logging and I am always appalled at the condition of the property.
A good friend of mine did sell his mature walnut trees. He didn't read the fine print. What was once a beautiful 20 acre woods is now a wasteland. So sad.
Watching from Yosemite Kentucky. I thought I was in the process of having about 80 acres timbered. I had contacted 5 logging companies to give me estimated values for purchase. I've put the brakes on now and am going to hire a forest management company to inventory my trees. This video was very timely as I've already received 3 quotes. Thank you so much for sharing!
Now this was a well needed education, thank you SOOO much. This is proper land management. My buddy's parents place was destroyed by a logging co. in just this manor. It took 10 years just to look decent, and it's going to take 10 more to recover.
I really appreciate your brake down and advice on this one. Glad you saw that guy coming and backed out on it. Seeing land clear cut is just down right heart breaking.
We thought about having our property logged, and then my next door neighbor had theirs done and after seeing what was left behind we decided against it.
We timbered our property about 3 years ago. Before lumber prices went crazy. Our timber company sent a forester out. We walked the property and I was able to tell him what trees I did not want them to touch. They came back and marked and we agreed on what they were taking. They planned to take 40 trees, but only took 25 due to the woods being wet. I’ve still got a lot of clean up from the tops, but I ended up with some new trails and the forest floor is much more healthy. I’d have walked away also. It’s your property. You’re hiring them.
Just keep the "timber Vultures " OUT of your woods. Hire a Horse-Team to take ONE tree out at a time, with YOU marking them. Timber-Slashers only "really" pay 5cents on the dollar for what the wood is worth, and cause major catastrophe after they leave. Fire-wooding is an EXPENSIVE Hobby for what is left after the "slash & trashers" leave you high&dry with a few bucks in your pocket. Every tree in my woods (20"& bigger) is worth 500.oo$ plus. Just slice them up yourself & haul them into the sawmill or buy a sawmill for a 5000% gross profit for yourself----presto! Thank for the Great vidio Mr.Adam. Selective-harvesting is WHERE it's AT.
Good point. When lumber spiked it wasn’t the landowner that made the money it was the people selling lumber. I started selling lumber on Facebook marketplace green in September and I can’t keep up. I have big orders now that I don’t know if I will get filled. I pulled up a fallen down white oak the other day that someone wants for trailer board. It was going to rot but now it will be turned into cash.
Nice job, Adam. There are some unscrupulous timber “professionals” out there. Way to be cautious and informed. Here in PA, DCNR bureau of forestry will send a service forester out to you for free. That person walks your land with you, explaining what you have and recommending best practices for woodland management. They are great! -Chad.
Same here in Maryland. For a small fee, the State Foresters even walked around our 100 acre farm marking which trees they would recommend taking out. They also recommended hiring a private professional forester to manage the property and bid it out. The forester makes their money off a set percentage (usually 10%) of the winning bid. So it's in their best interest to get the best price and the property owner usually makes out better financially.
A word of caution... loggers income is based on volume production, hence the problem. Private foresters working on commission have the same temptation. Been there--Done that.
@@jakebredthauer5100 I would try to find a state forester willing to paint chosen trees at both breast high and on the stump below point of cut.(helps keep loggers honest) If no state forester is available I would find a private forester willing to work by the hour or under contract.(cures the volume incentive) I would insist on a logging contract that included penalties for excess incidental damage. I would also insist that the logging contractor take all commercially viable parts of the tree during initial harvest. That mess that Adam showed was atrocious.
I spent my life in the hardwood lumber business. This is a good video. It is important to note the difference between timber management and timber liquidation. Diameter limit cuts are a terrible timber management approach. It’s the forest crown that needs to be managed. Leaving good trees encourages vertical growth during the pole stage before crowning and perpetuates good genetics. Adams woods are not impressive…yet, but if he continues to “pull the weeds while he picks the roses” he will be rewarded in the long run because, of the timber quality and residual land value. Plus it will be way cool, with a cathedrallike high crown. Having a forester as your agent makes sense. Not everything can be DYI after watching a RUclips video.
@@jakebredthauer5100 With a conservation easement the land is protected from development forever. It is still your land and you manage it and earn the timber income from it, but management by you (and following owners) needs to follow the management plan and terms of the conservation easement. In my area, land with a conservation easement is inspected annually for compliance with the conservation easement and management plan. It's a good way to protect land and ensure good stewardship into the future.
@@ProductiveRecreation I'm a retired logger stay away from foresters if u do your research these foresters are a middle man your paying! Why let a foresters in on your money.do your research on logging company's! Parton company's in Rutherford county nc are tops ! They pay good top money! They are honest.my dad was a logger for 60 yrs he paid his timber owners with the load tickets he got with each load.if u want honest money sell it by the thousand board feet not.lump sum.if u sell lump sum They sllways win!
@@jakebredthauer5100 A conservation easement is a legal agreement between the landowner and government or land trust. You are the owner, not the government or land trust. However, with the agreement the land cannot be developed and needs to be managed in accordance with the management plan. It’s a choice, and not for everyone. There are often tax benefits associated with it - particularly with regard to property taxes.
@@mikeanders7542 Sounds right to me! When I was logging, some of the independent foresters would sell out to their friends at the sawmill, or other logging companies. I don't mean just favors, they would take kickbacks, cash! The state has foresters on staff that should be fair and honest. Not always! Use your own good sense. Ask to see timber jobs they've done. We, my boss and I (small outfit) would cut no trees smaller than 18 inches at chest high. If you look at the butt of most trees, they spread at the ground. So if you cut low enough, almost everything in the woods is cuttable at 14" stump! It's hard to cut big trees without doing excessive damage to smaller trees. That's why you hire loggers, rather than doing it yourself! If it was easy, everybody'd be doing it! Landowners should walk thru the woods several times a year, always with an axe or saw, and cut all the poison oak and ivy vines, as well as the grape vines that you're capable of doing. One big landowner I know hired a 4 man crew, for 6 months, to do nothing but clear his woods of vines! I've cut vines big enough to split for firewood. Not good if you want a clean, productive woodland.
I have a story about loggers and my property. I bought a 42 acre spread in NE Texas. After about 5 months, a logger shows up at my door saying he owns the trees and is looking to come in a cut them down. I tell him NO - I never sold him my trees, but he shows me a deed showing the sale to a lady that never owned the property (she was trying to buy the place but never did). They gave her $8K for the timber (all but 65 random oaks). I checked into the deed and found out that it was never part of the property sale, so I told the loggers that they had a problem with the lady, not me. The Government Forestry people got involved, they came by, we talked, they did a little investigating, and then went on a manhunt for the lady that sold timber she never owned. CRAZY! Who gives someone $8K without checking to make sure they actually own the item for sale. Needless to say, I still have all my timber and I'm doing my own thinning/tree management.
@@MrSprintcat Internet writing uses more paragraphs because people are scared of walls of text. Non-internet writing would be similar to how you write it. The guy complaining is just crying because "wall of text" TL;DR. Interesting story. Doesn't surprise me someone would try to do that.
I feel you made a great decision. It appears to me that the timber company is a hack company looking to capitalize on the timber with no regard for the future health of the remaining timber.
You definitely made the right call. So important to manage our forests responsibly. One thing to consider is leaving the tops of trees that are too small for firewood in there. You can bunch them up haphazardly so they aren’t all over the place. Those tops create excellent, much needed habitat for all sorts of wildlife as well as decay into the ground enriching the soil which will benefit your future timber stand.
We have 13 acres of newly planted trees and directly planted nuts. And I'm constantly pruning for a single leader, grape vines, honeysuckle and cedar trees are continuous work. I will more than likely never see any of them harvested, but my kids and grandchildren will. Once again Adam great choice.
There’s an old saying “A society grows when old men plants trees in whose shade they will never sit”. I love this saying In so many more ways than just talking about trees
Yep selective and worst first management leaves a system for the kids and grandkids. Clearing a forest is just that.no sanctuary for birds,animals or kids.
i have 30 year old walnuts that are 20 inches thick at 4 feet. a little fertilizer when young can make a huge difference, had one grow 6 feet in its third year. no knots at all between 4 ft and 10 feet.
@@victorhopper6774 you must have pretty good soil, some of my trees are 20 years old and are no where close to that. The direct seed planting that I did 10 years ago isn't to far behind my older planting. Our 13 acres are located on worn out crop grounds. Even the forester was surprised by the size of the trees with no soil. A lot of 10 ft to 20 ft trees, have a good day.
@@kenthorsen4558 yea bottom near a creek. 50 feet tall, i was surprised how much they grew the first ten years. don't know for sure how much the fertilizer affected them. also don't know the quality of the wood growing that fast.
You nailed it man, if you let them in you would literally be sick in the stomach. You would probably avoid your property for two years because it would hurt so bad to look at. Yes, not only do you need your own forester you should add a written Timber Plan (or part of your overall Business Plan) that documents valuation because when you look at time discount, you will not get back the value of time and growth.
With the cleanup, stumps, road repair, etc....what would be the true profit of a $20K cut or even $40K? Seems like you could selectively cut the trees you want thinned, process them as firewood, and maintain that beautiful land you have.
Another key is when you open the canopy you need to monitor what is growing next. May need to spray if beech or other undesirable growth occurs. Getting a forester involved and then bidding out is wise. Nice video!
Good video Adam, smart dision. If you get together with a local forester and set up a trail system on your plot of land. Do a lot of walking yourself so you know where the value trees are so you can harvest a few yearly. I found skidding with a compact 3 pt worked most of the time. Until I couldn't get cose enough to trees. I then purchased a farmi 3 pt winch. Ice chains wil keep you out of trouble with a lighter tractor! You can select cut bad trees to clean out trash to help the healthy ones grow. I suggest winter harvesting so you can see the canopy. Skidding tree length in winter has less ground disturbance. If you have a trucker that can self load logs and deliver to mill. So you reap all the monies in the loging process. Check with Jesse the log hauler that works with Joe at Ohio wood Burner.
You absolutely did the right thing. I live in mid central GA. This kind of tree removal is done on a regular basis. It devastates 1000's of acres of land, leaves a complete unsightly mess in an otherwise beautiful part of this country and takes a lifetime to recover. It would cost way in excess of the $40K to clean up the acres that were harvested. It is so sad to see your neighbors property and probably the one on the other side of him also.
I’ve been cutting grape vines out in my wood lot for over 40 years. It’s a royal pain, but as I have learned… gotta do it. Not only do they harm the tree growth, but it also makes for a lot more work after you fell the tree and have to buck it. A word of caution… always look up when felling the tree with vines on it. Vines can break off limbs and even change the direction of the fell.
Adam, another great video! Hiring a forester is definitely the right way to go. Finding a reputable logging company is too. You have a beautiful family. Good luck with your property. Enjoy watching your videos. You have a bright future ahead of you.
Careful with foresters that work for state. Even they are vultures. Know them, trust them. Conservation related people came to check/mark our trees. 2 or 3 companies placed a bid. They were sorely disappointed we said 'No'. We had the option. No contracts. We have walnut, oak, white & red, & a few others. Be careful, that's all. Think it over.
Thank God for guys like you that are not going to allow the big companies to come in and outsmart them. As long as there's somebody that they can outsmart they're going to keep doing it basically they're stealing they're cheating it's low life action. Keep doing what you're doing buddy, thanks for the video!
Good choice. Not sure where you live but in southern Ontario, most counties have bylaws that don’t allow that heavy of cut. Also, never take the first bid on your woodlot. Some of these guys will give you the lowest bid at the start and then may go up. Good forestry is the way to go for sustained timber harvests.
That is what we did this winter, we hired a forester. They came in and painted the trees they were going to have the logger take. Yes, they leave a mess but it will all rot down eventually. Good information!
Great video! Make sure you don't let the grapevines lay, they can re-root very easily. Anything touching the ground can start producing roots. Thanks for such a awesome channel!
I like the idea of managing ones own wood lot, milling boards for resale they always seems to have value. Even firewood always has a market. Well where I live anyhow, it gets cold and folks have wood stoves.
ALWAYS READ THE CONTRACT! And ask questions. Too many people willingly sign whatever is put in front of them, especially when their neighbors have signed. Please learn from this experience. Companies are in the business to make money, not do what you want. They will say "yes" and then go off and do what they want. You can then sue, or fight them, but the damage has been done.
Absolutely 100% no questions asked get a service forester involved and walk your property. It was so worth it to have an ODNR (Ohio) Service Forester out to talk about this with our property. A logger tried to do this same thing to us and cut all of our pine trees 14-16" and larger. The forester said it's a terrible idea to set a certain size/diameter and cut everything that meets that requirement. Loggers are there to make $$$. SOME of them don't give a damn what they do to the future of your property.
You are right about cutting those vines. When I bought my property 35 years ago I spent several says cutting vines. They were chocking the big trees. I've got lots of timber trees but prefer to keep them, it's like a lovely park and feels good walking among them.
Great plan to cut that grapevine - I started maybe two decades ago clearing grape and now have near zero vines. Obviously the seed stock is nearly nonexistent as you gain and keep control. My stand has seen amazing improvements just by this single, easy maintenance. It may be work initially (when you are young!), but the older you will definitely appreciate it!
I am so glad that I came across this channel. We probably have around 40 acres maybe a little more of Timber here on the farm not including the pine that my wife and I have planted here on the farm. But we are considering having it log but are concerned with dealing with loggers for their reputation has been piss-poor with landowners. I do have a Forester that I buy my Pines from I guess I need to give him a call and see what he can do. Thank you for sharing
Great information about having your property logged off, I give you credit for actually taking the time to READ the fine print of the contract from Big logging companies, As I've know several folks who did go with the big company and ended up with a complete mess even worse then what you've shown from the neighbors adventure,. Some have even went as far as saying the logging companies basically "Raped" their wood lots, and left just an outright mess as they'll cut 20 trees just to get the 1 they actually wanted..Great job and information.
Wow, sounds like you dodged a bullet on that one. When the person who is sent to gain your trust acts like that it's not going to be a good experience if you would have moved forward.
Good choice on the lumber. Those grape vines will come back with a vengeance, you will be amazed at the water that will come out in the spring, I go around with loppers each year and cut them small
Man I’m proud of you for that that guys true colors showed real fast. My grandpa had 800 acres of pine select cut here in idaho and they still painted his trees. Eight… hundred… acres. So yeah
We had ours done with a local guy selective cutting. We picked up $5000. We put it back into the property. Wow it’s growing again! It was well worth it. Better hunting area than its ever been!
you nailed this one!!! We had our property logged 15 years ago and never again. They lowball you on price. Leave years worth of cleanup to do to cut firewood and get rid of branches. They told us they could drag things out from the edge of our fields. Then, as soon as I leave for work, they cut in new trails to use through the woods instead. Not only do they mess up the standing trees as they drag past them but you don't think about the damage done as the tree they cut falls. I had nice roosting trees for turkeys on the property. After the loggers were done, the turkeys all left. Here is the thing.... the logging company sends out an owner or salesman that makes all kinds of unwritten promises but the people they hire to cut are contractors that get paid by the truck load. So, they want to cut as many truck loads and as quickly as they can to maximize the money they make. That is where you run into trouble to. They are the ones ultimately raping the land.
This was a perfect example of what happened to my neighbor. The salesman made all kinds of promises and none were followed through with. They were going to clean up all the trails when they were done. I don’t think they’re coming back unfortunately for him. Going to make it hard to even get back there to cut firewood with how rough the roads are from the skidder
@@jakebredthauer5100 I know all of that. I tried to reread my wording to see where the confusion was. I see a couple places like where I say they low ball YOU on price. I was being general, meaning that is what loggers will do to people in general. I was not referring to Adam specifically. They did that to me specifically. Yes, I made a mistake letting them on the property. That is inexperience and trust. I gained experience and lost trust. Just offering folks a little knowledge I didn't have at the time. I am not against logging either but be smart and do as Adam suggested. Hire a forester first to mark trees and do a select cut. Hope that helps folks from jumping to conclusions as you have.
Adam, good call on not signing that logging contract…..$40k doesn’t make sense for 50yrs of tree growth. We have been reading "A landowners guide to managing your woods," and they also suggest speaking with a Forrester or even the local DNR! Thanks for sharing and good luck. Best, David and Rachel from CFS
I work for a logging company and we have an on staff forester and his job is to mark lots for us to cut and we do selective logging so we can go back every 12-20 years and cut again.We have lots that we have been on 2-3 times and hope to go back again.
Adam, i am in PA as well and just had my timber logged try and find a logger to do a percentage deal you get the most bang for your buck. I got 60% of all the timber value and my logger i hired to cut and pull all the trees out got 40%. I made out huge and much better than sending it out to bid.
You should paint those grape stumps. I have seen them grow back often. Cut them low to the ground and paint with some Tordon, or 2-4D and diesel mix about 50-50.
Good advice about reading the contract. Knew a guy who paid a contractor in full up front to "clean up" his hunting parcel. The crew came in and cut a portion of the timber, collected the sizes they wanted and left the tops cluttered throughout the area so that it was worse than before. He never heard from them after. Tried to help by cutting the branches off some fallen tops and pulling some smaller logs but the distance to the road was too far and too soft so didn't even make a dent. Lesson: Never pay in full up front.
Some really great advice in this video. I don't know anything about getting your property logged, but getting a 3rd party to count everything up then bidding it out is definitely the better option. That first crew just wanted to get as much timber in one spot as they could.
In Germany, tree felling is strictly monitored, even on private land. A forester is usually involved, who marks the wood to be felled and often also monitors the removal and sale. This is to ensure that the forest is managed sustainably, that there are no clear cuts and that only as much wood is removed as will grow back. In addition, care is taken to ensure that damage caused by storms or pests is reforested, which also applies to private forest owners. This does not completely prevent the felling of forest areas in order to use them for other purposes, but it does make it very difficult.
Have you seen what a lumber co. is doing at "Lumnah Acres" ? Granted, he's wanting a good portion of his 500 acres opened up for future pasture land. But they are taking truck loads of trees to be sold as firewood, others are being chopped up in a mulcher & hauled off & then there is the logs being taken to the mill. Good luck & have a great day 😊.
I would recommend hiring a timber consultant/ forester and writing a forest management plan. In addition, I would recommend working with a prescribed fire contractor to help stimulate oak re-generation and understory. Good-luck! Do not let a knuckle head convince you to plant loblolly pines.
@@jakebredthauer5100 historically all forest burned, science shows that indigenous people burned all forest and grasslands to stimulate young vegetation for wildlife over 12,000 years ago. All eco types are made to burn and require fire to maintain a healthy ecosystems.
@@jakebredthauer5100 you bring up some great points; however, rx fire applied at various seasons has different influences on vegetation. In an oak hickory forest a cool season burn would have little to no impact on mature hardwoods.
I bought a piece of property that was select cut for large black cherry the year before. They did a very good job, yes there are tops and stumps but no major ruts. It gave my property more acess and plenty of firewood. I had 30in black cherry on the property.
It can go either way, you cut the bigger trees and create and uneven forest where the smaller trees shade out saplings and promote growth of more brush and non competitive $ trees. Your neighbor will have a mostly even stand of trees that has potential to produce quality veneer trees in the future because of the way it was harvested. Once you open up the canopy and release light into smaller good looking trees it encourages them to branch out instead of grow vigorously up. It produces uneven growth rings which is undesirable in high $ trees. A timber harvest is almost a once per lifetime deal. I have no opinion either way on which you or your neighbor is doing the right thing. It’s your property and you should do what’s right for you as individuals.
No amount of money would make you feel great about going back there and seeing your beautiful woods destroyed. I've turned down offers to dig on my property (clay) and log it. I think you made the right choice!
Very informative. I've just had my white pine harvested as they were mature. Branches, boughs are leaving quite a mess. Pine is not a sought after firewood. I'll be at the cleanup for years.
I have some experience with white pine horrible tree's the problem is all the seedlings that will come up in the next 2 years. Easy to manage with round up. Hopefully you have some hardwoods as well mixed in.
I feel your pain with those grapevines. I spent a lot of time cutting grapevines and green briar on my 3 acres when we first bought. I was able to pull nearly all of them out of the trees with the ATV to a central spot and burn.
For Timber Stand Improvement (TSI) I use a Stihl 250 pruning saw which is 6 foot long. I added the 30 degree angled cutting bar. I can stand up straight and cut grape vines and unwanted sapplings flush with the ground. Really handy for reaching into unwanted bushy invasive species like Japanese Honeysuckle. Then I spray the stumps with Tordon RTU or Pathway.
You have a sawmill. You should be select cutting what you want and start your own forest management plan and turn that wood into something value added yourself. You take out what you need and make sure something is planted or comes up in it's place. To me this is precisely why you buy a sawmill. You can of course buy logs, and go get the stuff that is left by tree service, but seems to me having land with timber on it is the icing on the cake.
This is good information, we just purchased 18acres heavy wooded in East Texas and loggers are going around the area asking folks about their properties. We are not thinking on logging the property because we like it this way, it had never been logged before. We noticed the same issue with those vines and gonna take your suggestion to cut them off. Thanks!!
Good recommendations for both the forester and grape vines. I think it is hard for most people to realize how big and damaging grape vines can get in this part of the country. I have 82 acres in W PA. and I feel like I could spend the rest of my life cutting vines. Nice application for the battery chainsaw.
The battery saw is literally perfect for grape vines. No need for hearing protections and when you left off the trigger you don’t have an engine idling. On/off is pretty nice
Was going to ask also Adam. "works like a pocket on a shirt" for grape vines. What make is it that you are using. Awesome video and timely for us as well.
@@happyrecluse2849 I use a DeWalt 20 volt pole saw with 8" chainsaw bar. It allows me to reach higher to cut the grape vines and not have to bend over to cut them close to the ground. It also works great for cutting multiflora rose and bush honeysuckle without crawling under and getting all scratched up.
I had 40 acres complete clearcut logged back in 2015. It was old growth softwood. It was the best decision I ever made. It was logged in the winter with heavy frost in the topsoil to prevent any rutting from their machinery. It is now a beautiful piece of property that the wildlife thrive on. Cheers !!
Thank you for the video and excellent forestry conservation lessons. I don't have timber on my property but I'm pleased to see that folks like you care enough to do the right thing. KUDOS
You done good, Adam. I would have told that carpet bagger lumberman to pound sand and never come back. My rule of thumb is to cut anything on the outside of a tree that's NOT bark. I despise poison ivy and wild grapes on trees.
Good plan for TSI. Two things both our servicing and consulting forester suggested. Leave tops where they fall and cut in place. This creates shelter for wildlife and protects volunteer growth. Second, while grapevine control is extremely important, choose a small maintainable area and allow wild growth of grapevine, multi flower rose, etc. to promote habitat. Love the channel.
You're exactly right, you can tell from the guy's behaviour that he was the wrong guy to work with. Literally angry that someone doesn't accept their offer. Trashy business.
Have a forester do a forest stewardship plan. You then have a document to follow to properly manage your woods. Most state DNR do this for people. Very beneficial, also helps you qualify for different programs which can generate doe funds , to make your woods work for you.
Absolutely love your Chanel! Your humility and educating rich productions are fantastic! Defiantly want to involve a forester in effective stewardship of your woods! Honestly the “hacks” that approached you are truly thieves in my opinion!
Agree! They would have essentially robbed him with the going price of lumber at a high level again… It would hurt my heart to see that destruction in his woods. They really are peaceful and pretty. Thanks for watching! He’s a good guy…
You definitely made the right choice, Adam. The dudes reaction when you told him no, tells the whole story. Man those are some hefty grape vines! Cheers!
Sounds like a lot of money. But it's really not when you figure you could easily cut your own logs and send them to the mill. Let them grow. Cut logs, hire a band saw, dry for one year. Great source of income.
Hey Adam, lots of great information, thanks... I too have tons of grape vines and I'm not sure you aware but they are great for outside firepits.. I used them as kindling for my outdoor furnace... Enjoy your videos... Pete from Canada 🇨🇦
You did your due diligence! We had a bad experience with a logging company years ago. Won't do that again. I make Maple Syrup and it was supposed to be a select cut. What a mess!. Enjoy the videos and content. Central Wisconsin here.
I agree with your thinking on the tsi approach to timber sales. Cutting the vines is a great idea also. One additional thing we do is to put a drop off herbicide on the vine after cutting them. It stops the sprouts from taking off later.
You did the right thing and kudos to you for being diligent in your understanding of what was being proposed. We went through a similar thing last summer, but it was rock, not trees. We have abundant river rock here on our property and a local building materials company wanted to quarry it. They have had an operation on a neighbor’s property for years, but wanted to expand to our land. They offered a sizable amount of money to be paid monthly for the duration of the contract and it was certainly tempting to have so much coming in without us having to do anything. However, we spoke to the neighbor about it and he had nothing but regret and told us of all the pitfalls. Ultimately, he said he felt like he had entered into a contract with the devil. We politely declined their offer and their subsequent larger offer.
There are loggers in the timber industry that are aware of how to manage cuts so they can come back in another decade or two for another harvest. They won't beat up the smaller timber and leave a huge mess as it cuts into their eventual bottom line by damaging maturing trees and pissing off landowners. If the rep for that outfit treated you like that without a contract it's pretty easy to guess what kind of mess his loggers will leave.
I always mark the trees that they "could" take before I let them walk the land. Like the chainsaw - I find a battery powered Sawzall is great for vines.
Years ago my mother in law had about 20 acres cut. A lumber co did the thinning and did a very nice job. They marked the save trees and cut everything else down to the ground. They came in with equipment and repaired the ground and planted more trees they had contracted to cut in the future. They cleared the brush and burned everything or chipped it up and left the land in beautiful condition. Her neighbors had the same thing done by another company and they came in and basically clear cut the property leaving piles of brush and junk everywhere and also tore the ground up leaving huge ruts and holes. It wasn't usable for anything when they finished. You're very correct that reading the contract and talking in depth with them is vital to the health of your land. Remember they mostly have no concern for your property when they get what they want. She lucked out and got a very responsible company. Nice tid bits about those grape vines. I was wondering how to combat them but now I know what to do. I always learn from your videos. Thanks, Adam!
we have had neighbors who have had their woods pretty much taken off. ok but when its done its done if your 30 years old you will NEVER see trees that big again. my grandpa said if you manage your woods they will last you for ever. if we get big trees we feel need to come down we will cut them our self and sell to a local log yard and the other wood thats dead we cut for firewood for us and if theres extra we sell it and fire wood here in wisconsin is BIG money. i get $70.00 a face cord and cant keep up. i cut on 5 other peoples land JUST their dead stuff!!!
Hi Adam, thanks for talking about grape vines. I spent a week on my new property taking out briars and grape vines. Been 2 yrs and I can already tell I have a much "healthier" woods. Keep up the good work. Love your vids!
Man so many people just see dollar signs and skip the fine print! Glad you look threw it thoroughly and expressed what you didn’t want! Stay safe wish you and the family good health and happiness!
I debated on commenting. Some of your points are truly valid and accurate. One thing I’d like to point out is not all logging jobs look like this. This guy is a butcher. You should NOT expect your job to look like this. When a logger approaches you ask for references and to look at previous jobs. Yes I cut wood and that mess is unacceptable. Just my two cents.
You are exactly right. He was after the dollar, and didn’t care a bit about stewardship. Every landowner should put stewardship ahead of profit. It’s our responsibility as landowners!
Its kinda like saying take care of the forrest because if you dont you will destroy yourself ……
Selecting and taking timber yourself for your sawmill and fire wood business is probably the most cost effective thing to do and best for the woods
Good for you if i was hunting the property i wouldnt log it thats just me to me taking to many hemlock ruins the cover for wintering deer lot of these propertys ar cutting them all deer need hemlock to make it through its good to cut like you said to make new growth
We have had several that want our timber. We've been saying 'No' for 3 or 4 decades.
My husband knows how to manage our woods.
My brother unfortunately said 'Yes'. He got probably 1/2 of what it was worth. And a whole mess of tree tops all over the place. No thanks.
Plus there's the honesty factor.
@@sandrajohnson9926 seriously screw them
It wouldn't be enough timber for him to sustain the business. He'd run out In a few seasons.
Smart move! Foresters will also write the contracts with the loggers to include clauses that penalize loggers for issues such as scarred up trees (such as the one you pointed out), slash clean up, high stumps, ect. How do I know? I used to be a consultant forester.
Obviously, the best way to protect your land is to hire a forester. In some states there are foresters hired by the State that help private landowners as well. You should look into them, as State's usually require them to have college degrees and seven years training. They are top notch. The drawback to hiring a forester is that loggers hate working with them because they no longer have free reign over the properties they are logging.
One more idea that I would recommend is having the forester do a selective harvest and pre-commercial thinning. This leaves the biggest and best trees to reseed the forests after the harvest is complete thereby insuring that the best genetics and phenotypes are left in the forest. The harvesting that the logger you talked to is doing is sometimes called "high-grading". Taking all the best trees and leaving the small stuff behind.
You did the right thing! Everyone I know that has had their property logged was very disappointed afterwards. I've cut a great deal of firewood on tracts after logging and I am always appalled at the condition of the property.
I agree 100%.
A good friend of mine did sell his mature walnut trees. He didn't read the fine print. What was once a beautiful 20 acre woods is now a wasteland. So sad.
Watching from Yosemite Kentucky. I thought I was in the process of having about 80 acres timbered. I had contacted 5 logging companies to give me estimated values for purchase. I've put the brakes on now and am going to hire a forest management company to inventory my trees. This video was very timely as I've already received 3 quotes. Thank you so much for sharing!
Now this was a well needed education, thank you SOOO much. This is proper land management. My buddy's parents place was destroyed by a logging co. in just this manor. It took 10 years just to look decent, and it's going to take 10 more to recover.
I really appreciate your brake down and advice on this one. Glad you saw that guy coming and backed out on it. Seeing land clear cut is just down right heart breaking.
We thought about having our property logged, and then my next door neighbor had theirs done and after seeing what was left behind we decided against it.
We timbered our property about 3 years ago. Before lumber prices went crazy. Our timber company sent a forester out. We walked the property and I was able to tell him what trees I did not want them to touch. They came back and marked and we agreed on what they were taking. They planned to take 40 trees, but only took 25 due to the woods being wet. I’ve still got a lot of clean up from the tops, but I ended up with some new trails and the forest floor is much more healthy. I’d have walked away also. It’s your property. You’re hiring them.
Just keep the "timber Vultures " OUT of your woods. Hire a Horse-Team to take ONE tree out at a time, with YOU marking them. Timber-Slashers only "really" pay 5cents on the dollar for what the wood is worth, and cause major catastrophe after they leave. Fire-wooding is an EXPENSIVE Hobby for what is left after the "slash & trashers" leave you high&dry with a few bucks in your pocket. Every tree in my woods (20"& bigger) is worth 500.oo$ plus. Just slice them up yourself & haul them into the sawmill or buy a sawmill for a 5000% gross profit for yourself----presto! Thank for the Great vidio Mr.Adam. Selective-harvesting is WHERE it's AT.
In any material, product, supply chain look at where the costs, profit, risks, working capital, risks are.
Good point. When lumber spiked it wasn’t the landowner that made the money it was the people selling lumber. I started selling lumber on Facebook marketplace green in September and I can’t keep up. I have big orders now that I don’t know if I will get filled. I pulled up a fallen down white oak the other day that someone wants for trailer board. It was going to rot but now it will be turned into cash.
If we'd sold to the highest bidder, I doubt we would've gotten our trees' worth.
Exactly right on forester! They will help with your overall goal for your woods.
Nice job, Adam. There are some unscrupulous timber “professionals” out there. Way to be cautious and informed. Here in PA, DCNR bureau of forestry will send a service forester out to you for free. That person walks your land with you, explaining what you have and recommending best practices for woodland management. They are great! -Chad.
they do the same in NY state
I had no idea PA did this. Thank you !!!!
Same here in Maryland. For a small fee, the State Foresters even walked around our 100 acre farm marking which trees they would recommend taking out. They also recommended hiring a private professional forester to manage the property and bid it out. The forester makes their money off a set percentage (usually 10%) of the winning bid. So it's in their best interest to get the best price and the property owner usually makes out better financially.
A word of caution... loggers income is based on volume production, hence the problem. Private foresters working on commission have the same temptation. Been there--Done that.
@@jakebredthauer5100 I would try to find a state forester willing to paint chosen trees at both breast high and on the stump below point of cut.(helps keep loggers honest) If no state forester is available I would find a private forester willing to work by the hour or under contract.(cures the volume incentive) I would insist on a logging contract that included penalties for excess incidental damage. I would also insist that the logging contractor take all commercially viable parts of the tree during initial harvest. That mess that Adam showed was atrocious.
I spent my life in the hardwood lumber business. This is a good video. It is important to note the difference between timber management and timber liquidation. Diameter limit cuts are a terrible timber management approach. It’s the forest crown that needs to be managed. Leaving good trees encourages vertical growth during the pole stage before crowning and perpetuates good genetics. Adams woods are not impressive…yet, but if he continues to “pull the weeds while he picks the roses” he will be rewarded in the long run because, of the timber quality and residual land value. Plus it will be way cool, with a cathedrallike high crown. Having a forester as your agent makes sense. Not everything can be DYI after watching a RUclips video.
YES on the forester. Right decision. I may put some of our land in conservation with a timber management plan to prevent that kind of heavy cutting.
@@jakebredthauer5100 With a conservation easement the land is protected from development forever. It is still your land and you manage it and earn the timber income from it, but management by you (and following owners) needs to follow the management plan and terms of the conservation easement. In my area, land with a conservation easement is inspected annually for compliance with the conservation easement and management plan. It's a good way to protect land and ensure good stewardship into the future.
@@ProductiveRecreation I'm a retired logger stay away from foresters if u do your research these foresters are a middle man your paying! Why let a foresters in on your money.do your research on logging company's! Parton company's in Rutherford county nc are tops ! They pay good top money! They are honest.my dad was a logger for 60 yrs he paid his timber owners with the load tickets he got with each load.if u want honest money sell it by the thousand board feet not.lump sum.if u sell lump sum They sllways win!
@@jakebredthauer5100 A conservation easement is a legal agreement between the landowner and government or land trust. You are the owner, not the government or land trust. However, with the agreement the land cannot be developed and needs to be managed in accordance with the management plan. It’s a choice, and not for everyone. There are often tax benefits associated with it - particularly with regard to property taxes.
@@mikeanders7542 lump sum may be better for tax reasons. Capital gains vs income.
@@mikeanders7542 Sounds right to me! When I was logging, some of the independent foresters would sell out to their friends at the sawmill, or other logging companies. I don't mean just favors, they would take kickbacks, cash! The state has foresters on staff that should be fair and honest. Not always! Use your own good sense. Ask to see timber jobs they've done. We, my boss and I (small outfit) would cut no trees smaller than 18 inches at chest high. If you look at the butt of most trees, they spread at the ground. So if you cut low enough, almost everything in the woods is cuttable at 14" stump! It's hard to cut big trees without doing excessive damage to smaller trees. That's why you hire loggers, rather than doing it yourself! If it was easy, everybody'd be doing it!
Landowners should walk thru the woods several times a year, always with an axe or saw, and cut all the poison oak and ivy vines, as well as the grape vines that you're capable of doing. One big landowner I know hired a 4 man crew, for 6 months, to do nothing but clear his woods of vines! I've cut vines big enough to split for firewood. Not good if you want a clean, productive woodland.
I have a story about loggers and my property. I bought a 42 acre spread in NE Texas. After about 5 months, a logger shows up at my door saying he owns the trees and is looking to come in a cut them down. I tell him NO - I never sold him my trees, but he shows me a deed showing the sale to a lady that never owned the property (she was trying to buy the place but never did). They gave her $8K for the timber (all but 65 random oaks). I checked into the deed and found out that it was never part of the property sale, so I told the loggers that they had a problem with the lady, not me. The Government Forestry people got involved, they came by, we talked, they did a little investigating, and then went on a manhunt for the lady that sold timber she never owned. CRAZY! Who gives someone $8K without checking to make sure they actually own the item for sale. Needless to say, I still have all my timber and I'm doing my own thinning/tree management.
🤔 I sucked in school can you teach me the right way to ri8ght a little story? With all of the correct punctuation and all that.thank you in advance.
Whomever will listen
So true .
@@MrSprintcat Internet writing uses more paragraphs because people are scared of walls of text. Non-internet writing would be similar to how you write it. The guy complaining is just crying because "wall of text" TL;DR.
Interesting story. Doesn't surprise me someone would try to do that.
I’d say you made the right decision.
If they did not respect you enough to work through your concerns, they wouldn’t respect your land either.
You made the right choice. Good job on keeping him accountable.
Thank you for this information about the industry of harvesting off your land that getting a Forester in their first is such a good idea
I feel you made a great decision. It appears to me that the timber company is a hack company looking to capitalize on the timber with no regard for the future health of the remaining timber.
You definitely made the right call. So important to manage our forests responsibly.
One thing to consider is leaving the tops of trees that are too small for firewood in there. You can bunch them up haphazardly so they aren’t all over the place. Those tops create excellent, much needed habitat for all sorts of wildlife as well as decay into the ground enriching the soil which will benefit your future timber stand.
You were exactly right! Look at the mess they made of the property! The Loggers should be liable for damage!
We have 13 acres of newly planted trees and directly planted nuts. And I'm constantly pruning for a single leader, grape vines, honeysuckle and cedar trees are continuous work. I will more than likely never see any of them harvested, but my kids and grandchildren will. Once again Adam great choice.
There’s an old saying “A society grows when old men plants trees in whose shade they will never sit”. I love this saying In so many more ways than just talking about trees
Yep selective and worst first management leaves a system for the kids and grandkids. Clearing a forest is just that.no sanctuary for birds,animals or kids.
i have 30 year old walnuts that are 20 inches thick at 4 feet. a little fertilizer when young can make a huge difference, had one grow 6 feet in its third year. no knots at all between 4 ft and 10 feet.
@@victorhopper6774 you must have pretty good soil, some of my trees are 20 years old and are no where close to that. The direct seed planting that I did 10 years ago isn't to far behind my older planting. Our 13 acres are located on worn out crop grounds. Even the forester was surprised by the size of the trees with no soil. A lot of 10 ft to 20 ft trees, have a good day.
@@kenthorsen4558 yea bottom near a creek. 50 feet tall, i was surprised how much they grew the first ten years. don't know for sure how much the fertilizer affected them. also don't know the quality of the wood growing that fast.
I'm glad you shut down the con artist before he could rip you off. There are crooks in every business. You did well to smoke him out.
You nailed it man, if you let them in you would literally be sick in the stomach. You would probably avoid your property for two years because it would hurt so bad to look at. Yes, not only do you need your own forester you should add a written Timber Plan (or part of your overall Business Plan) that documents valuation because when you look at time discount, you will not get back the value of time and growth.
Dude…. Super impressed with your ability to run your day job and provide so much information to us on cool topics.
Thanks!
With the cleanup, stumps, road repair, etc....what would be the true profit of a $20K cut or even $40K? Seems like you could selectively cut the trees you want thinned, process them as firewood, and maintain that beautiful land you have.
Absolutely he has a beautiful wood lot. I would never let a logger pig in there.
Another key is when you open the canopy you need to monitor what is growing next. May need to spray if beech or other undesirable growth occurs. Getting a forester involved and then bidding out is wise. Nice video!
Good video Adam, smart dision. If you get together with a local forester and set up a trail system on your plot of land. Do a lot of walking yourself so you know where the value trees are so you can harvest a few yearly. I found skidding with a compact 3 pt worked most of the time. Until I couldn't get cose enough to trees. I then purchased a farmi 3 pt winch. Ice chains wil keep you out of trouble with a lighter tractor! You can select cut bad trees to clean out trash to help the healthy ones grow. I suggest winter harvesting so you can see the canopy. Skidding tree length in winter has less ground disturbance. If you have a trucker that can self load logs and deliver to mill. So you reap all the monies in the loging process. Check with Jesse the log hauler that works with Joe at Ohio wood Burner.
You absolutely did the right thing. I live in mid central GA. This kind of tree removal is done on a regular basis. It devastates 1000's of acres of land, leaves a complete unsightly mess in an otherwise beautiful part of this country and takes a lifetime to recover. It would cost way in excess of the $40K to clean up the acres that were harvested. It is so sad to see your neighbors property and probably the one on the other side of him also.
I’ve been cutting grape vines out in my wood lot for over 40 years. It’s a royal pain, but as I have learned… gotta do it. Not only do they harm the tree growth, but it also makes for a lot more work after you fell the tree and have to buck it. A word of caution… always look up when felling the tree with vines on it. Vines can break off limbs and even change the direction of the fell.
Adam, another great video! Hiring a forester is definitely the right way to go. Finding a reputable logging company is too. You have a beautiful family. Good luck with your property. Enjoy watching your videos. You have a bright future ahead of you.
Careful with foresters that work for state. Even they are vultures.
Know them, trust them.
Conservation related people came to check/mark our trees. 2 or 3 companies placed a bid.
They were sorely disappointed we said 'No'. We had the option. No contracts.
We have walnut, oak, white & red, & a few others.
Be careful, that's all. Think it over.
Thank God for guys like you that are not going to allow the big companies to come in and outsmart them. As long as there's somebody that they can outsmart they're going to keep doing it basically they're stealing they're cheating it's low life action. Keep doing what you're doing buddy, thanks for the video!
Good choice. Not sure where you live but in southern Ontario, most counties have bylaws that don’t allow that heavy of cut. Also, never take the first bid on your woodlot. Some of these guys will give you the lowest bid at the start and then may go up. Good forestry is the way to go for sustained timber harvests.
That is what we did this winter, we hired a forester. They came in and painted the trees they were going to have the logger take. Yes, they leave a mess but it will all rot down eventually. Good information!
@Cliff Johnson All fixed, thanks.
Great video! Make sure you don't let the grapevines lay, they can re-root very easily. Anything touching the ground can start producing roots. Thanks for such a awesome channel!
I like the idea of managing ones own wood lot, milling boards for resale they always seems to have value. Even firewood always has a market. Well where I live anyhow, it gets cold and folks have wood stoves.
ALWAYS READ THE CONTRACT! And ask questions. Too many people willingly sign whatever is put in front of them, especially when their neighbors have signed. Please learn from this experience. Companies are in the business to make money, not do what you want. They will say "yes" and then go off and do what they want. You can then sue, or fight them, but the damage has been done.
Absolutely 100% no questions asked get a service forester involved and walk your property. It was so worth it to have an ODNR (Ohio) Service Forester out to talk about this with our property. A logger tried to do this same thing to us and cut all of our pine trees 14-16" and larger. The forester said it's a terrible idea to set a certain size/diameter and cut everything that meets that requirement. Loggers are there to make $$$. SOME of them don't give a damn what they do to the future of your property.
You are right about cutting those vines. When I bought my property 35 years ago I spent several says cutting vines. They were chocking the big trees. I've got lots of timber trees but prefer to keep them, it's like a lovely park and feels good walking among them.
Great plan to cut that grapevine - I started maybe two decades ago clearing grape and now have near zero vines. Obviously the seed stock is nearly nonexistent as you gain and keep control. My stand has seen amazing improvements just by this single, easy maintenance. It may be work initially (when you are young!), but the older you will definitely appreciate it!
I am so glad that I came across this channel. We probably have around 40 acres maybe a little more of Timber here on the farm not including the pine that my wife and I have planted here on the farm. But we are considering having it log but are concerned with dealing with loggers for their reputation has been piss-poor with landowners. I do have a Forester that I buy my Pines from I guess I need to give him a call and see what he can do. Thank you for sharing
Great information about having your property logged off, I give you credit for actually taking the time to READ the fine print of the contract from Big logging companies, As I've know several folks who did go with the big company and ended up with a complete mess even worse then what you've shown from the neighbors adventure,. Some have even went as far as saying the logging companies basically "Raped" their wood lots, and left just an outright mess as they'll cut 20 trees just to get the 1 they actually wanted..Great job and information.
Wow, sounds like you dodged a bullet on that one. When the person who is sent to gain your trust acts like that it's not going to be a good experience if you would have moved forward.
Good choice on the lumber. Those grape vines will come back with a vengeance, you will be amazed at the water that will come out in the spring, I go around with loppers each year and cut them small
Man I’m proud of you for that that guys true colors showed real fast. My grandpa had 800 acres of pine select cut here in idaho and they still painted his trees. Eight… hundred… acres. So yeah
We had ours done with a local guy selective cutting. We picked up $5000. We put it back into the property. Wow it’s growing again! It was well worth it. Better hunting area than its ever been!
you nailed this one!!! We had our property logged 15 years ago and never again. They lowball you on price. Leave years worth of cleanup to do to cut firewood and get rid of branches. They told us they could drag things out from the edge of our fields. Then, as soon as I leave for work, they cut in new trails to use through the woods instead. Not only do they mess up the standing trees as they drag past them but you don't think about the damage done as the tree they cut falls. I had nice roosting trees for turkeys on the property. After the loggers were done, the turkeys all left. Here is the thing.... the logging company sends out an owner or salesman that makes all kinds of unwritten promises but the people they hire to cut are contractors that get paid by the truck load. So, they want to cut as many truck loads and as quickly as they can to maximize the money they make. That is where you run into trouble to. They are the ones ultimately raping the land.
This was a perfect example of what happened to my neighbor. The salesman made all kinds of promises and none were followed through with. They were going to clean up all the trails when they were done. I don’t think they’re coming back unfortunately for him. Going to make it hard to even get back there to cut firewood with how rough the roads are from the skidder
@@jakebredthauer5100 I know all of that. I tried to reread my wording to see where the confusion was. I see a couple places like where I say they low ball YOU on price. I was being general, meaning that is what loggers will do to people in general. I was not referring to Adam specifically. They did that to me specifically. Yes, I made a mistake letting them on the property. That is inexperience and trust. I gained experience and lost trust. Just offering folks a little knowledge I didn't have at the time. I am not against logging either but be smart and do as Adam suggested. Hire a forester first to mark trees and do a select cut. Hope that helps folks from jumping to conclusions as you have.
@@jakebredthauer5100 Chill out bro. I don't think he said anything bad about Adam. He was just telling of his experience.
@@jakebredthauer5100 you have anger issues dude!
Good call on your part. It's YOUR land, so you get to decide what happens. Sometimes a few bucks in your hand now isnt worth it in the long run.
Adam, good call on not signing that logging contract…..$40k doesn’t make sense for 50yrs of tree growth. We have been reading "A landowners guide to managing your woods," and they also suggest speaking with a Forrester or even the local DNR! Thanks for sharing and good luck. Best, David and Rachel from CFS
Those grape vines will grow back aggressively. Paint the remaining stumps with 2,4-D or roundup or best of all picrolam.
I work for a logging company and we have an on staff forester and his job is to mark lots for us to cut and we do selective logging so we can go back every 12-20 years and cut again.We have lots that we have been on 2-3 times and hope to go back again.
Adam, i am in PA as well and just had my timber logged try and find a logger to do a percentage deal you get the most bang for your buck. I got 60% of all the timber value and my logger i hired to cut and pull all the trees out got 40%. I made out huge and much better than sending it out to bid.
You should paint those grape stumps. I have seen them grow back often. Cut them low to the ground and paint with some Tordon, or 2-4D and diesel mix about 50-50.
Good advice about reading the contract. Knew a guy who paid a contractor in full up front to "clean up" his hunting parcel. The crew came in and cut a portion of the timber, collected the sizes they wanted and left the tops cluttered throughout the area so that it was worse than before. He never heard from them after. Tried to help by cutting the branches off some fallen tops and pulling some smaller logs but the distance to the road was too far and too soft so didn't even make a dent. Lesson: Never pay in full up front.
Some really great advice in this video. I don't know anything about getting your property logged, but getting a 3rd party to count everything up then bidding it out is definitely the better option. That first crew just wanted to get as much timber in one spot as they could.
Absolutely! You did your homework and saved you from a total disaster
You took the right decision Adam! The way the guy left says enough about their way of working! Grz from Belgium!
Fantastic video with amazing advice! If I am ever fortunate enough to own property under these circumstances I will be way more prepared!
If you give them plenty of time to dry, those big grape vines burn great in fireplaces or outdoor fires.
In Germany, tree felling is strictly monitored, even on private land. A forester is usually involved, who marks the wood to be felled and often also monitors the removal and sale. This is to ensure that the forest is managed sustainably, that there are no clear cuts and that only as much wood is removed as will grow back. In addition, care is taken to ensure that damage caused by storms or pests is reforested, which also applies to private forest owners. This does not completely prevent the felling of forest areas in order to use them for other purposes, but it does make it very difficult.
Have you seen what a lumber co. is doing at "Lumnah Acres" ? Granted, he's wanting a good portion of his 500 acres opened up for future pasture land. But they are taking truck loads of trees to be sold as firewood, others are being chopped up in a mulcher & hauled off & then there is the logs being taken to the mill. Good luck & have a great day 😊.
I would recommend hiring a timber consultant/ forester and writing a forest management plan. In addition, I would recommend working with a prescribed fire contractor to help stimulate oak re-generation and understory. Good-luck! Do not let a knuckle head convince you to plant loblolly pines.
@@jakebredthauer5100 historically all forest burned, science shows that indigenous people burned all forest and grasslands to stimulate young vegetation for wildlife over 12,000 years ago. All eco types are made to burn and require fire to maintain a healthy ecosystems.
@@jakebredthauer5100 you bring up some great points; however, rx fire applied at various seasons has different influences on vegetation. In an oak hickory forest a cool season burn would have little to no impact on mature hardwoods.
I bought a piece of property that was select cut for large black cherry the year before. They did a very good job, yes there are tops and stumps but no major ruts. It gave my property more acess and plenty of firewood. I had 30in black cherry on the property.
It can go either way, you cut the bigger trees and create and uneven forest where the smaller trees shade out saplings and promote growth of more brush and non competitive $ trees. Your neighbor will have a mostly even stand of trees that has potential to produce quality veneer trees in the future because of the way it was harvested. Once you open up the canopy and release light into smaller good looking trees it encourages them to branch out instead of grow vigorously up. It produces uneven growth rings which is undesirable in high $ trees. A timber harvest is almost a once per lifetime deal. I have no opinion either way on which you or your neighbor is doing the right thing. It’s your property and you should do what’s right for you as individuals.
No amount of money would make you feel great about going back there and seeing your beautiful woods destroyed. I've turned down offers to dig on my property (clay) and log it. I think you made the right choice!
Very informative. I've just had my white pine harvested as they were mature. Branches, boughs are leaving quite a mess. Pine is not a sought after firewood. I'll be at the cleanup for years.
I have some experience with white pine horrible tree's the problem is all the seedlings that will come up in the next 2 years. Easy to manage with round up. Hopefully you have some hardwoods as well mixed in.
I feel your pain with those grapevines. I spent a lot of time cutting grapevines and green briar on my 3 acres when we first bought. I was able to pull nearly all of them out of the trees with the ATV to a central spot and burn.
For Timber Stand Improvement (TSI) I use a Stihl 250 pruning saw which is 6 foot long. I added the 30 degree angled cutting bar. I can stand up straight and cut grape vines and unwanted sapplings flush with the ground. Really handy for reaching into unwanted bushy invasive species like Japanese Honeysuckle. Then I spray the stumps with Tordon RTU or Pathway.
You have a sawmill. You should be select cutting what you want and start your own forest management plan and turn that wood into something value added yourself. You take out what you need and make sure something is planted or comes up in it's place. To me this is precisely why you buy a sawmill. You can of course buy logs, and go get the stuff that is left by tree service, but seems to me having land with timber on it is the icing on the cake.
This is good information, we just purchased 18acres heavy wooded in East Texas and loggers are going around the area asking folks about their properties. We are not thinking on logging the property because we like it this way, it had never been logged before. We noticed the same issue with those vines and gonna take your suggestion to cut them off. Thanks!!
Good recommendations for both the forester and grape vines. I think it is hard for most people to realize how big and damaging grape vines can get in this part of the country. I have 82 acres in W PA. and I feel like I could spend the rest of my life cutting vines. Nice application for the battery chainsaw.
The battery saw is literally perfect for grape vines. No need for hearing protections and when you left off the trigger you don’t have an engine idling. On/off is pretty nice
Was going to ask also Adam. "works like a pocket on a shirt" for grape vines. What make is it that you are using. Awesome video and timely for us as well.
@@happyrecluse2849 I use a DeWalt 20 volt pole saw with 8" chainsaw bar. It allows me to reach higher to cut the grape vines and not have to bend over to cut them close to the ground. It also works great for cutting multiflora rose and bush honeysuckle without crawling under and getting all scratched up.
I had 40 acres complete clearcut logged back in 2015. It was old growth softwood. It was the best decision I ever made. It was logged in the winter with heavy frost in the topsoil to prevent any rutting from their machinery. It is now a beautiful piece of property that the wildlife thrive on.
Cheers !!
Thank you for the video and excellent forestry conservation lessons. I don't have timber on my property but I'm pleased to see that folks like you care enough to do the right thing. KUDOS
Great video 👍👍 Adam. Forester and maybe get a local draft horse contractor to skid out your wood less damage to your wood grove. Very interesting.
You know, I found that those big grape vine canes when split, make very good smoker wood.
You done good, Adam. I would have told that carpet bagger lumberman to pound sand and never come back. My rule of thumb is to cut anything on the outside of a tree that's NOT bark. I despise poison ivy and wild grapes on trees.
Good plan for TSI. Two things both our servicing and consulting forester suggested. Leave tops where they fall and cut in place. This creates shelter for wildlife and protects volunteer growth. Second, while grapevine control is extremely important, choose a small maintainable area and allow wild growth of grapevine, multi flower rose, etc. to promote habitat. Love the channel.
You're exactly right, you can tell from the guy's behaviour that he was the wrong guy to work with. Literally angry that someone doesn't accept their offer. Trashy business.
Have a forester do a forest stewardship plan. You then have a document to follow to properly manage your woods. Most state DNR do this for people. Very beneficial, also helps you qualify for different programs which can generate doe funds , to make your woods work for you.
Absolutely love your Chanel! Your humility and educating rich productions are fantastic! Defiantly want to involve a forester in effective stewardship of your woods! Honestly the “hacks” that approached you are truly thieves in my opinion!
Agree! They would have essentially robbed him with the going price of lumber at a high level again… It would hurt my heart to see that destruction in his woods. They really are peaceful and pretty. Thanks for watching! He’s a good guy…
Great video! Great to see the difference in the two parcels. 20" and above seems like a good standard.
You definitely made the right choice, Adam. The dudes reaction when you told him no, tells the whole story. Man those are some hefty grape vines! Cheers!
Sounds like a lot of money. But it's really not when you figure you could easily cut your own logs and send them to the mill. Let them grow. Cut logs, hire a band saw, dry for one year. Great source of income.
Hey Adam, lots of great information, thanks...
I too have tons of grape vines and I'm not sure you aware but they are great for outside firepits.. I used them as kindling for my outdoor furnace...
Enjoy your videos...
Pete from Canada 🇨🇦
You did your due diligence! We had a bad experience with a logging company years ago. Won't do that again. I make Maple Syrup and it was supposed to be a select cut. What a mess!. Enjoy the videos and content. Central Wisconsin here.
I agree with your thinking on the tsi approach to timber sales. Cutting the vines is a great idea also. One additional thing we do is to put a drop off herbicide on the vine after cutting them. It stops the sprouts from taking off later.
You did the right thing and kudos to you for being diligent in your understanding of what was being proposed. We went through a similar thing last summer, but it was rock, not trees. We have abundant river rock here on our property and a local building materials company wanted to quarry it. They have had an operation on a neighbor’s property for years, but wanted to expand to our land. They offered a sizable amount of money to be paid monthly for the duration of the contract and it was certainly tempting to have so much coming in without us having to do anything. However, we spoke to the neighbor about it and he had nothing but regret and told us of all the pitfalls. Ultimately, he said he felt like he had entered into a contract with the devil. We politely declined their offer and their subsequent larger offer.
There are loggers in the timber industry that are aware of how to manage cuts so they can come back in another decade or two for another harvest. They won't beat up the smaller timber and leave a huge mess as it cuts into their eventual bottom line by damaging maturing trees and pissing off landowners.
If the rep for that outfit treated you like that without a contract it's pretty easy to guess what kind of mess his loggers will leave.
I always mark the trees that they "could" take before I let them walk the land. Like the chainsaw - I find a battery powered Sawzall is great for vines.
Learn something new everyday. Thanks for the insight!
Years ago my mother in law had about 20 acres cut. A lumber co did the thinning and did a very nice job. They marked the save trees and cut everything else down to the ground. They came in with equipment and repaired the ground and planted more trees they had contracted to cut in the future. They cleared the brush and burned everything or chipped it up and left the land in beautiful condition. Her neighbors had the same thing done by another company and they came in and basically clear cut the property leaving piles of brush and junk everywhere and also tore the ground up leaving huge ruts and holes. It wasn't usable for anything when they finished.
You're very correct that reading the contract and talking in depth with them is vital to the health of your land. Remember they mostly have no concern for your property when they get what they want. She lucked out and got a very responsible company.
Nice tid bits about those grape vines. I was wondering how to combat them but now I know what to do. I always learn from your videos. Thanks, Adam!
You made the right call and thanks for educating us (me) who didn't know. Thanks!!
oh SNAP!! That's CRAZY!!! -- So basically, they're paying you, not for your timber, but for you to clean up their mess?!?! LOL
Thanks grapevines to be worked on. I am like you don't like clear cuts. They should also plant back trees sapping to start the next phase.
we have had neighbors who have had their woods pretty much taken off. ok but when its done its done if your 30 years old you will NEVER see trees that big again. my grandpa said if you manage your woods they will last you for ever. if we get big trees we feel need to come down we will cut them our self and sell to a local log yard and the other wood thats dead we cut for firewood for us and if theres extra we sell it and fire wood here in wisconsin is BIG money. i get $70.00 a face cord and cant keep up. i cut on 5 other peoples land JUST their dead stuff!!!
Hi Adam, thanks for talking about grape vines. I spent a week on my new property taking out briars and grape vines. Been 2 yrs and I can already tell I have a much "healthier" woods. Keep up the good work. Love your vids!
Thank you! Very timely and educational!
Man so many people just see dollar signs and skip the fine print! Glad you look threw it thoroughly and expressed what you didn’t want! Stay safe wish you and the family good health and happiness!
I debated on commenting. Some of your points are truly valid and accurate. One thing I’d like to point out is not all logging jobs look like this. This guy is a butcher. You should NOT expect your job to look like this. When a logger approaches you ask for references and to look at previous jobs. Yes I cut wood and that mess is unacceptable. Just my two cents.