Personally having used them all, the 400 4.5 is my favourite (taking the 400 2.8 and 600 f4 out of the equation) for the performance, sharpness and of course the minimum focus + aperture gains its a superb all rounder. and depending on camera - I'd go 400mm 4.5 > 400mm + DX crop > 400mm +1.4 TC (good light) and then 400mm + 1.4 TC + crop before the 2x extender. Just as its more flexible and increases IQ overall - obviously as long as a 20MP file is enough for you, but shooting mags and jobs, I've never worried about MP under 12, as long as the images are good! I think the 800mm is a great specialist lens - I was lucky to test it out for Nikon, bit for daily shooting in the UK especially when fighting light in the winter the size and such, might be better replaced with a 600mm f4 FL + TC (yes a little heavier) but around the same ££ and if mostly static on a tripod or shot walks for static positioning shooting a better option and far more flexible with the Aperture/Sharpness and TC compatibility! great video and understand the shoulder pain, Ive been struggling with my left shoulder for the last two years and loads of slow PT to get it back to strength for crawling around with big lenses! Cheers, Tom
Nice to here from you Tom. Not sure if you remember but I met you over gunpowder park in Waltham abbey when the shorties were about a few years ago. You’ve made me feel better now as you look pretty young to be having shoulder problems and hope you fully recover. My problem is that I NEVER use tripods and I know I probably should but I just can’t bring myself to use them 😂
You are right, do not follow the crowd, follow you heart, too many today follow others opinions and there are a too much hype about certain gear and certain brands ! I will not even start to mention Q cameras and Leica...
Sorry to hear about the shoulder pains. I am 75 and still go out with a Z9 + Z800PF and a Z8 with the Z 180-600 using a harness that allows me to carry both cameras with the load spread across the shoulders not the neck. I find many occasions where the 800 is essential. I did have a 2xTC which I used occasionally with a 400 but I wasn't happy with the quality so the 180-600 fills the gap below the 800 perfectly.
Thanks for thinking of my shoulder. My 2 problems with the 180-600mm is my love for insects and the size and weight of it compared to the 100-400mm. Got a lot to think about before I even think of selling as I hate regret.
@@birdzandbees I totally agree. I also have a Z100-400 and think it is a superb pseudo-macro lens - I even produced a video promoting that aspect of the 100-400 (ruclips.net/video/uiKj3gkmV1I/видео.html). I take out which ever I feel is likely to best suit where i am going to shoot. For example, today I went to RSPB Dungeness and took all three lenses - 800, 180-600 and 100-400 and all got used. I was shooting video 90% of the time so look out for something in the not too distant future!!
The Z 400mm f/4.5 is a great lens and my 1st choice as a walk-around lens - the quality you get for the size and weight is just incredible, and it takes the 1.4x TC so well! I had a chance to test the Z 600mm f/6.3 when it was new but I sent it back because of the long closest focus distance and higher cost compared to the 400mm which already met my needs. From time to time I wonder about getting the 180-600mm for the extra reach and zoom versatility, but I can't bring myself to part with the lightness of the small 400mm!
Yeah it’s an amazing lens, and like you say it’s hard to part with so I’ll probably keep that and part with the 800mm at some point with an accompanying lens for it.
If I had a Nikon camera, I would got for the Nikon Z 400mm 4.5 + a 1.4x, it is a great Lens with excellent optical image performance and it is compact and light weight. I use Sony 60 megapixels Cameras and have the excellent Sigma 500mm 5.6 DG DN OS Sports lens which also has excellent optical image performance and it is compact and light weight, I often use it it APSC mode, where it is equivalent to a 750mm lens and there are still pretty good 26 megapixels in APSC mode. It is impressive that Sigma have been able to make it so compact and light weight without using fresnell element !
I love me a Sigma lens and used to own the 500mm f4 sport and that was great apart from the weight and on the R5 it was way slower to focus than on a dslr (Sigma did update it via hardware and software but it never claimed its speed back fully but was better each time) and my favourite macro lens till my z105mm was the oldest ex version. If sigma only had a camera to compete with the big boys then they’d be in trouble. That 500 sounds very nice and hopefully it’ll come to the Z mount like others have. The only reason I don’t use crop mode is because I’ve missed some great shots when that has happened or thought I was closer than I was and realised too late that I should have been closer
Try a 500mm f5.6PF + FTZ In our test , the 400 f4.5 is very good, with TC 1.4 it drops severe... The details at a distance , the z800 was the clear winner... 600mm f6.3 , extreem , very sharp but had strong lightfall to the edges.. contrast was far to high... it did not seem to reach the f stop, and we think it is f7.1 , f8.5 at he edge... The 500 f5.6PF did geve a sunny day feel, where the 600 PF was like : where is the sun been?? 180-600 ( good copy, there is al lot of sample deviation so be cautious !! we have tested 3 copies!!) did not get the quality of the primes... the z100-400 is better , but has also lightfall what suppised us.. but 400mm on birds give above shots, looking on the bird we do not like that.. to close.. The difference between the 500PF and 600PF is ofcouse some focal length , but it was not a real "detail at a distance" deal breaker, the 600 has better AF responce , quicker but not at the level of the z800 who seems to have more precise AF motors... And conclusion was , 600PF not the extra image quality to justify the enormous price tag caparing to a used 500PF , with has far less lightfall does look like a f5.0 instead of a f5.6, representing the brightness of the day more correct , almost as sharp , so besides the z800 the 500PF was the right choice ... the best image quality /weight/size ratio for the money
400mm f2.8 TC sounds might be the best option of all... if money is no object. I have the 100-400 and it's very good, except a bit short for birds far away. That said, I seem to get my best shots when birds are close, which you miss out on with a fixed 400. If you really want light, the Panasonic G9 ii and the Panasonic Leica 100-400 (200-800 equivalent) is amazing for its size.
I have the 400 and the 800. I use the 800 mainly for water birds when I’m on the ground by the water’s edge. I use the 400 95% of the time and occasionally chuck the converter on. I literally have no reason to want another lens other than the 400 2.8 tc maybe. But that is too heavy for general photography. The 100-400 is too soft for my liking so never made the grade.
I’ve heard there’s a lot of copy variations which is where the soft copies might come in (bit unusual to even here of a soft S lens these days which shows how well Nikon are doing with their lenses 👌🏿)
I have a Canon EF-800 F5.6L IS lens. Useable with a Wembley Gimbal head on a large tripod… for handheld use, ermmmmm, rather not. When I was younger it was OK, but in retirement age, not so much. So, I share your pain with keeping such a lens, or getting rid of it. Murphy’s law says the moment you get rid of it, you will need it…
Personally having used them all, the 400 4.5 is my favourite (taking the 400 2.8 and 600 f4 out of the equation) for the performance, sharpness and of course the minimum focus + aperture gains its a superb all rounder. and depending on camera - I'd go 400mm 4.5 > 400mm + DX crop > 400mm +1.4 TC (good light) and then 400mm + 1.4 TC + crop before the 2x extender. Just as its more flexible and increases IQ overall - obviously as long as a 20MP file is enough for you, but shooting mags and jobs, I've never worried about MP under 12, as long as the images are good!
I think the 800mm is a great specialist lens - I was lucky to test it out for Nikon, bit for daily shooting in the UK especially when fighting light in the winter the size and such, might be better replaced with a 600mm f4 FL + TC (yes a little heavier) but around the same ££ and if mostly static on a tripod or shot walks for static positioning shooting a better option and far more flexible with the Aperture/Sharpness and TC compatibility!
great video and understand the shoulder pain, Ive been struggling with my left shoulder for the last two years and loads of slow PT to get it back to strength for crawling around with big lenses! Cheers, Tom
Nice to here from you Tom. Not sure if you remember but I met you over gunpowder park in Waltham abbey when the shorties were about a few years ago. You’ve made me feel better now as you look pretty young to be having shoulder problems and hope you fully recover. My problem is that I NEVER use tripods and I know I probably should but I just can’t bring myself to use them 😂
You are right, do not follow the crowd, follow you heart, too many today follow others opinions and there are a too much hype about certain gear and certain brands ! I will not even start to mention Q cameras and Leica...
Sorry to hear about the shoulder pains. I am 75 and still go out with a Z9 + Z800PF and a Z8 with the Z 180-600 using a harness that allows me to carry both cameras with the load spread across the shoulders not the neck. I find many occasions where the 800 is essential. I did have a 2xTC which I used occasionally with a 400 but I wasn't happy with the quality so the 180-600 fills the gap below the 800 perfectly.
Thanks for thinking of my shoulder. My 2 problems with the 180-600mm is my love for insects and the size and weight of it compared to the 100-400mm. Got a lot to think about before I even think of selling as I hate regret.
@@birdzandbees I totally agree. I also have a Z100-400 and think it is a superb pseudo-macro lens - I even produced a video promoting that aspect of the 100-400 (ruclips.net/video/uiKj3gkmV1I/видео.html). I take out which ever I feel is likely to best suit where i am going to shoot. For example, today I went to RSPB Dungeness and took all three lenses - 800, 180-600 and 100-400 and all got used. I was shooting video 90% of the time so look out for something in the not too distant future!!
The Z 400mm f/4.5 is a great lens and my 1st choice as a walk-around lens - the quality you get for the size and weight is just incredible, and it takes the 1.4x TC so well! I had a chance to test the Z 600mm f/6.3 when it was new but I sent it back because of the long closest focus distance and higher cost compared to the 400mm which already met my needs. From time to time I wonder about getting the 180-600mm for the extra reach and zoom versatility, but I can't bring myself to part with the lightness of the small 400mm!
Yeah it’s an amazing lens, and like you say it’s hard to part with so I’ll probably keep that and part with the 800mm at some point with an accompanying lens for it.
If I had a Nikon camera, I would got for the Nikon Z 400mm 4.5 + a 1.4x, it is a great Lens with excellent optical image performance and it is compact and light weight. I use Sony 60 megapixels Cameras and have the excellent Sigma 500mm 5.6 DG DN OS Sports lens which also has excellent optical image performance and it is compact and light weight, I often use it it APSC mode, where it is equivalent to a 750mm lens and there are still pretty good 26 megapixels in APSC mode. It is impressive that Sigma have been able to make it so compact and light weight without using fresnell element !
I love me a Sigma lens and used to own the 500mm f4 sport and that was great apart from the weight and on the R5 it was way slower to focus than on a dslr (Sigma did update it via hardware and software but it never claimed its speed back fully but was better each time) and my favourite macro lens till my z105mm was the oldest ex version. If sigma only had a camera to compete with the big boys then they’d be in trouble.
That 500 sounds very nice and hopefully it’ll come to the Z mount like others have. The only reason I don’t use crop mode is because I’ve missed some great shots when that has happened or thought I was closer than I was and realised too late that I should have been closer
Try a 500mm f5.6PF + FTZ
In our test , the 400 f4.5 is very good, with TC 1.4 it drops severe...
The details at a distance , the z800 was the clear winner... 600mm f6.3 , extreem , very sharp but had strong lightfall to the edges.. contrast was far to high... it did not seem to reach the f stop, and we think it is f7.1 , f8.5 at he edge... The 500 f5.6PF did geve a sunny day feel, where the 600 PF was like : where is the sun been?? 180-600 ( good copy, there is al lot of sample deviation so be cautious !! we have tested 3 copies!!) did not get the quality of the primes... the z100-400 is better , but has also lightfall what suppised us.. but 400mm on birds give above shots, looking on the bird we do not like that.. to close..
The difference between the 500PF and 600PF is ofcouse some focal length , but it was not a real "detail at a distance" deal breaker, the 600 has better AF responce , quicker but not at the level of the z800 who seems to have more precise AF motors... And conclusion was , 600PF not the extra image quality to justify the enormous price tag caparing to a used 500PF , with has far less lightfall does look like a f5.0 instead of a f5.6, representing the brightness of the day more correct , almost as sharp , so besides the z800 the 500PF was the right choice ... the best image quality /weight/size ratio for the money
Thank you for that in-depth answer, I’d forgotten all about the 500pf and also the 300pf (considering I like insects) gonna look in to both of them
400mm f2.8 TC sounds might be the best option of all... if money is no object. I have the 100-400 and it's very good, except a bit short for birds far away. That said, I seem to get my best shots when birds are close, which you miss out on with a fixed 400. If you really want light, the Panasonic G9 ii and the Panasonic Leica 100-400 (200-800 equivalent) is amazing for its size.
I have the 400 and the 800. I use the 800 mainly for water birds when I’m on the ground by the water’s edge. I use the 400 95% of the time and occasionally chuck the converter on. I literally have no reason to want another lens other than the 400 2.8 tc maybe. But that is too heavy for general photography. The 100-400 is too soft for my liking so never made the grade.
I’ve heard there’s a lot of copy variations which is where the soft copies might come in (bit unusual to even here of a soft S lens these days which shows how well Nikon are doing with their lenses 👌🏿)
@@birdzandbees Yeah I think soft is a relative statement. Decent lens by itself. I think the 180-600 is actually better though.
Paul, I reckon the 100-400mm nikon would be right for you. Less than 1 metre minimum focus distance.
I think that as well. I still have the tele so will be able to play with the focal length and it is a lens I’ve never owned so more to compare.
I think the horse will prefer the more flattering compression of the 800. The wide angle 400 will distort and make their nose too long
You can never have enough focal length for birds in most cases but you can't go wider when you need to so.........
Horses tell lies all the time.
Ask anybody who bets on horseracing.
😂😂😂😂😂 you could see that this horse was trying to trick me with its two faces 😅
I need 800mm but in zoom. So I'm woandering tu buy a canon body only for canon 200-800 mm lens. The Nikon's prime to big to travel
I have a Canon EF-800 F5.6L IS lens. Useable with a Wembley Gimbal head on a large tripod… for handheld use, ermmmmm, rather not. When I was younger it was OK, but in retirement age, not so much. So, I share your pain with keeping such a lens, or getting rid of it. Murphy’s law says the moment you get rid of it, you will need it…
Must have been a beautiful lens to work with apart from the weight though.
Looks like a horse, not a hose.
My devious typo drew you in 😅
What did the hose, sorry,horse say about the arthritis, I need a solution too, mate.
@@RogerJones-mountfieldhad to tell him to say it and not spray it 😂. I like the answer about the 500pf which I’d forgotten about