The Best 4P Ark Nova Game Ever Played
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- Опубликовано: 3 авг 2024
- Today we're analysing a recent 4 player Ark Nova game featuring...
Season 3 Arena Champion: dwarvintime!
The best 4P Ark Nova player in the world: Tomoaki Tokunaga!
Co-creator of the No Wonders RUclips channel: Me!
and Andrewsmile.
0:00 - Game 1
1:05:36 - Game 2
Game 1: boardgamearena.com/table?tabl...
dwarvintime vs Tomoaki Tokunaga vs sorryimlikethis vs Andrewsmile
Game 2: boardgamearena.com/table?tabl...
Bsyragb (817) vs Propaganda Panda (611) 
Игры
It was a very educational and tough game for me. My original plan was to play the Koala in Round 2, release the Lesser Bird-of-paradise while acquiring a university, and raise my reputation to 8 to get a worker, but this strategy wouldn't work with the frequent early breaks. By the way, I had both cards to release your Sea Lion quite early in the game haha.
As for the donations at the end, they were the moves that had the highest potential final score for me, and I had no intention of hindering you, so I hope you understand. There's no benefit in doing that once the game is already decided.
Concerning a certain part of the video, I often feel that starting with universities rather than partner zoos is stronger on maps 3, 4, and 8, so it's not uncommon to start with a university in the Commercial Harbor. Also, my current rating of the Observation Tower has dropped significantly compared to before, although I don't consider it the worst.
That's very interesting! I can understand why Universities may be stronger on maps 3 and 8. On map 3 you receive 2CP for the 3rd University. On map 8 upgrading Build and Sponsors is important earlier in the game. Why do you think map 4 as well? Is it intuition / experience? My thought process would be that hand size is less important when you can freely sell cards.
And no problem with the donations, haha. I never considered it as you trying to block me. You have to make the moves that are best for you, and it was clearly the best move.
Let's play again sometime!
@@NoWondersTV If I were to choose between intuition or experience, it would definitely be experience. I used to not prioritize Universities at all, but once I changed my playstyle, my performance on map 4 improved significantly. I used to tier map 4 as B+ on the wiki, but now I tier it as A+. Broadly speaking, my average turn count dropped from the 30s to around 28 turns after improving my strategy.
While I haven't conducted a rigorous analysis of the reasons behind the good results, my impression is that increasing hand size early makes it much easier to secure animal cards for base projects. The idea is not that we don't need to increase hand size because we can freely sell cards, but rather, because we can freely sell cards, we won't lose out by frequently using the Cards action. This increases our chances of securing the cards we need and minimizes the impact of luck. A key objective is to secure good cards, so increasing hand size is beneficial.
Another factor is the characteristic of map 4, where late-game conservation projects (due to the multiplier token) are more important than in the early game compared to other maps. It's not that starting with a partner zoo strategy can't yield good results, but considering the stability of the University route, it's hard to deviate from that path unless I have a particularly good hand like a breeding program project card.
Another reason could be that map 4 is the only map where I believe upgrading the Cards action is justified in a 4p game. Therefore, the flow of raising reputation fits well with this, and I want to take two Universities early to raise reputation and upgrade the Animals action. Additionally, this strategy synergizes with the ability to gain a University through a conservation project. If we can do this in Round 2, we can upgrade the Cards action (in addition to Build and Animals), leading to stability. Furthermore, if we can add 2 more reputation (for example, through an animal with reputation and its release), we can gain a worker. As long as a break doesn't occur, we can even reach for a partner zoo during Round 2.
In this way, I believe map 4 is well-suited for early University acquisition. I also look forward to playing against you again!
"Sexy kiosk". You can say it Sam. Sounds fine. 😂
This was a fun one! I had never played 4 player before and it was actually less chaotic than I expected- I thought there would be a lot more fighting for partner zoos/ universities and competition for good cards on the river but it was surprisingly peaceful aside from Dwarvins huge start
It's not balanced, but from an entertainment standpoint, 4p is the best. We need more of these!
@@the_propaganda_panda in your opinion, what makes it unbalanced?
@@louissivak7643 Not an expert on 4p, I've played it maybe 5 times in my life. But these aspects come to mind for me:
1) It doesn't matter that much when all the players are equally strong, but if weaker players are involved, a lot of inadvertent kingmaking might be happening.
2) You can't plan ahead as well as in 2p. Between each of your moves, you got three people instead of one doing actions, maybe taking cards off the display, pushing the break, supporting projects, and so on. Break management in particularly is one of the most important skills in 2p, but much more random in 4p.
3) Player order matters a lot. Being the last player in the first round often feels like a death penalty. You will never get a good university or a desired partner zoo, you will never get S-tier cards from the initial display, you're always one tempo behind. Some extra appeal is not even close to sufficient compensation.
Nice game ! 4p ark nova is enjoyable 😊
I recognize Andrewsmile as a top Challengers player :D
Federation, Vale of Eternity and Earth too! His record against strong players is actually incredibly good, I wouldn't be surprised to see him at 700 soon.
@@NoWondersTV oh, seems like he played it a lot and got stuck around 600. Still pretty great
@@Hoellenseher The difference between 600-700 is pretty small. It could only take one small change to start climbing again!
Haha yes I had a run up to 670 then had some bad games- I’ll get there this season ;)
Would a bidding system make sense for 4 players map selections?
I know it's used in a ton of other heavy-weight games. I feel like with income tied to your appeal it wouldn't work too well.
In game 1 if you had taken pouching instead of last worker on final reward wouldn't you have had 1 more point? Probably missing something.
Worker gives +6 and pouching only +4
@@NoWondersTV Ah, was missing last worker was 2CP, thanks! Great analysis as always.
50:54 "But I've calculated money perfectly." - I heavily disagree, because you said NO to building a Kiosk.
Your overall logic and game plan was very cool, but I did not see any reason to build that 1-size at 48:08 by the water AT ALL. Couldn't you Kiosk on the top left instead? Activates Geologist for 1 and adds 2 income. You plotted out your end game moves: break, 2 animals, fill map, and association.
The more minor thing is your cards to x token and sponsor. You had comments like "didn't really need the x token" and "leave sponsors here in case I need to break" but it was 10/15, constricted, and 1 x token. Drawing only to discard is very inefficient, but you did have a swappable "third" card. If you just drew instead of x, it'd be 12/15 where your sponsor action actually can guarantee break. Instead, 2 other players got to draw before you broke.
You can even go further back: instead of doing Build 3 -> cards to 1 for x token --> sponsors 4 break ...
Couldn't you at 8/15, break sponsors for 3? It'd be 11/15. You'd be at 11 money, build goes to slot 4, and Cards is at 5. Risk goes up but this potentially lets you see more cards and build 5, allowing you to potentially swap out the macaw if you find an African or pouch animal. Your x move instead required someone else to activate cards or sponsor break when you had no more further moves pre-break.
You still had the Crested Porcupine and use Digging to clear any suddenly hot display. It's 5 less money than Macaw, who is netting 4 more appeal, but that alone covers the sudden donation shortage.
Macaw is a 13 money to 7 appeal ratio, except in your game you forgone building the spots that its pavilions would use. So it's actually not high value.
... but it makes me wonder why not Macaw at 29:10. I get there's too much hindsight but you had kiosks primed to pair with fresh pavilions lol. You did Frilled Lizard to make Geologist give you 3 appeal, but you repeatedly played animals differently due to hand size limit by ... playing a Sprint animal first. Then you clever'd cards away. But Fennec > macaw set you back 4 appeal and 3 income, but this is not an error when you did need the money to build.
Or if you do use hindsight, getting Europe partner instead of Americas and keeping Bison instead of Macaw. You quite literally ended up not leveraging Americas, and you definitely were playing the slow worm. The Macaw forced you to 3rd partner Americas. This is knowing Dwarvin had 5 Americas already played.
tl;dr not doing Kiosk and getting Macaw baited.
You got me! I'm a fraud!
So when I said I've calculated money perfectly I meant on the turn that I was deciding to break 4 instead of 3. I hadn't counted before that, and you are correct that building another kiosk earlier is strictly better than an unnecessary size 1.
Re: the other lines, there is a lot of hindsight. 4 player games are very tricky to read when the break will happen. So, sure, if I know I will get 3 guaranteed actions this round then maybe break 3 to start is better. But in my eyes build is a guaranteed action I want to take before the round ends, because I will only have 2-3 turns after the final round begins. Maybe if I break 3 to start it incentivises someone else to end the round and I end up looking pretty silly.
Fox over Macaw is also debatable. Macaw is better income, but as you said, leaves me with no money to build that round. And I did want to clever down Cards anyway.
Americas partner zoo still worth as well IMO. There are lines where I get another turn in the final round and can do 2 Americas > 3 x-tokens to do another project. The 3rd partner zoo also unlocks 4th worker bonus for +2 CP. Yes, only 2 points better than pouching, but 2 points was a big deal in this game.
@@NoWondersTV Right, you did refer to the sponsors 4 specifically, so I stretched the quote incorrectly. My bad.
Thanks for elaborating the sequencing. The build tip is one you've always emphasized and it makes sense.
Your Americas explanation plan makes sense on the 3 x token setup, but it does feel bad to see the replay and realizing if you did Europe, your slow worm would have been 1 money, and you actually could have played it with Caracal at 34:39. Unlike other what ifs, your plan that round was specifically to play all those small animals. Macaw was too expensive despite the partnership.
Of course an earlier Caracal changes everything, as hunter 2 would change the deck draws that lead you to Europe Eagle and nullifies the huge bird release value. So I'll stop about Europe. It's funny too since the next 2 cards were Herb release and talented communicator, so you still would have a hand size of 3.
Still, the discount from Europe could have made you do pouch 2 conservation instead of 12 money. Heck, picking partner Asia instead could have been galaxy brain but that's way too much of a stretch.
Too many variables BUT ... why not Caracal over Slow worm at 34:36? [Sure Dwarvin gets to snap Asian Elephant instead but you'd get to snap Cheetah lol]. That's impossible to predict but my actual point was: not only is hunter 2 not guaranteed an animal but ... why did you need to keep and play slow worm when your planned association 5 move is Reptiles 2? Or keep slow worm and just "deny" a new animal from your opponents via discard?
In fact, at 32:50 did you not consider reptile house? You'd get to the rep bonus you aimed for and you open up a 2 and 3 enclosure. You'd go down to 6 money and you'd lose 4 income [actually 5] but you could Caracal to flip the 2 enclosure again that the Frilled Lizard vacated for a net loss of 3. And if you did hunter an animal, slow worm becomes expendable or doesn't occupy an enclosure. If the others didn't break, you get to association 5 the 2 cp reptiles and pick 5 income to donate and get 3 x-token reward. Since that's extremely unlikely, then the cool monkey park sponsor move you pulled off the next round could be connected to 2 kiosks.
Actually, why did you 1 enclosure at this spot 32:59? The spot you placed the pavilion 32:52 looked better for the 1 enclosure, and the pavilion can slot 1 spot lower where there's no mountain. Or be more silly and build the same 2/1/pavilion next to the most left kiosk and along the left border to get the 1 rep, then later Monkey Park on top of all the Build II spots in the center. This is extremely minor so I'll stop.
tl;dr honest question: Caracal > Slow worm? [whiff or just discard new animal/reptile]. Or no building reptile house to cover bottom left rep bonus, knowing you can move 2 reptiles?
I'm vastly underestimating the reality of turn based. Your notes, while useful, probably also funnels you into a plan you drafted prior.
The conclusion is still the same: most of the moves were reasonable and you already acknowledged the less efficient ones. Funny enough, a Kiosk could have been built as early as 33:02 on the top left of the map. You'd go down to 7 money and go up to 38 income. The way that top area got left open throughout the rest of the game made it look like a tiny chance of building petting zoo. Zoo school and Meerkat Den were already played by then so there's no more sponsors shaped like that that needed borders or mountain. Bird Aviary there makes very little sense too. baboon rock and owl hut is just no. Since architectural zoo was the kept end game and Geologist+ICP with assoc upgrade, there was always a decent reason to build a kiosk.
Thanks for sharing this! A good mix of luck, opportunity, denial, and planning that came to fruition. These friendly games are great to see the different dynamic strategies.