Ten Things To Make Your Newtonian Amazing!
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- Опубликовано: 10 июн 2023
- 3D Printing a Mirror Spider, 130PDS modifications.
3d print file for 130PDS spider:
www.stlfinder.com/model/skywa...
Stopping Light Leaks
Stabilize Mirror Movement
Fit Collimation Screws
Paint Mirrors
Paint Focuser Tube
Fit Dew heaters and Dew Bands
Replace the Spider
Flock the Tube
Fit an Aperture Mask
Collimate, Collimate, Collimate! 
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I’ve finally found a channel that caters to my level. I really appreciate the guides and advice, and I’ve now got a reliable source of learning and information to help me progress.
Thank you so much for saying that. I hoped that some of my ramblings would help someone, thank you for saying so. Clear skies!
The legendary Humbrol modeling colours.
one of the most clinical and interesting videos I've seen in recent times, without a doubt that your videos will help me a lot with my dob. thx
Great job! Lots of tips and tricks to improve the performance.
Same thing done with my pds130. It makes such a huge difference. Thanks for the advice on how to position the sec Mirror using the Okal . Thats something i havent really noticed yet.
Very useful list of upgrades, thanks for sharing :)
I stil need to do things on my 130pds.
This kind of videos helps me allot.
How ever i didn't know it was possible to 3d print a spider for the secondary mirror.
Amazing work man! Very well done !!!
Great video Andy. I’ve done all the mods to my 130pds, only thing left is to get a new secondary spider vane.
I use 2“ rings for back focus with my mpcc , this allows to me to set the image train deeper in the focuser. I have about 1cm of focus tube that protrudes into the OTA.
Nice! Got a second hand 150 pds on the way. Some of the mods are done on it i know but there are much still to do with it. Thanks for showing some of the steps.
Super!
And thanks for the link to the spider 😀
That newtonian is adorable!
Great video Andy, lots of very good information about improving the Newton telescopes, I really don't understand why some of these issues are not sorted out at manufacturing, after all using black mat paint and black fixings instead of silver also adding black felt to line the focus tube to stop light leaks wouldn't add very much to the manufacturing cost
Another suggestion which I've found makes collimation easier. Check the three (or however many) screws that support the primary mirror. In some scopes they are nylon, presumably to provide a "soft" support, and this is a recipe for the scope to go out of collimation when you point to a different part of the sky. If the screws are steel, they may be as supplied from the factory and have a raised irregular edge at the end of the thread. This is where they bear on the glass, and the support point will (a) be very small and (b) move when the screw is rotated. Neither of these is a good thing. Use a file to remove the raised edge and convert the tip of the screw to a very gently rounded dome, then smooth with fine wet-and-dry paper. The motion of the mirror when collimating will be much smoother.
Great, thank you! I think priority 1 for me is finding a way to shroud my Skywatcher 300p in the 2 different extension positions. Right now the tube is semi open.
A tip for collimation the main mirror a lot of the adjusting knobs are small and twiddly so what I do is glue on plastic bottle caps larger than the metal adjusters it makes it far easier and finer adjustments!
Good idea!
My first time on your channel and you are the only one that's helped me with the same mirror problems thank you.
So glad to help, thank you for watching!
Thanks for sharing. Cheers.
Man, you have balls by painting around mirror. I could not risk it by worrying about contamination of mirror with black paint.
Well…it looks like he knows what he’s doing so, I see no problem with it.
I have many times thought of grasping the primary with "L" brackets with zero loss of light by having modified brackets to grasp the side of the primary, not the front edge.
Perhapssimply grinding away most of the "L", leaving only an edge to contact/grasp the mirror edge... maybe even mark tiny dots with a marker and grind simple divets over the marks, ~ 1 mm deep... just enough to capture the mirror. No need to have excessive depth.
But getting COMPLETELY rid of ALL brackets (many scopes have cells with 4 brackets to secure the primary! This area adds up fast and subtracts from precious primary mirror real estate!!!
From the outermost edge, no less!
Given that the primary mirror weight is not so much, it seems a small price to pay to minimize mirror grasp in exchange for more mirror real estate...
Nice video. But there are two "Improvements" that he does not mention, which were promoted by astronomer Ed Turco, creator of a Newtonian that competed -in planetary image quality- with refractors, that cost 100 times more.
1) A black cardboard mask, which takes 1/4" of the external diameter of the mirror, separated a few millimeters from the front. Ed said (and he confirmed it with examples) that most of the figurative errors were concentrated there. That the tiny part of light that we lose is more than gained due to the improvement of the image quality.
2) A black inside tube, extending the mouth of the telescope two diameters forward. The improvement in contrast is immediate and also protects against condensation.
I hope this helps someone.
Do what I did to an old C6-N Newtonian. I had my primary refigured to .98 Strehl and 1/12th wave. Was initially guaranteed to be refigured to .95 Strehl and 1/10th wave, it just turned out better. I then replaced my secondary with a 1/10th wave dielectric mirror. Then tweaked it from 750mm focal length to 758 to fit the mirror perfectly when I installed the new focuser and I indeed used black leather dye on all my edges.
I was a beginner and bought the C6-N at a pawn shop for $125, it came with a 1.25" Tele Vue 2x Barlow and had scratched mirrors from cleaning with a damned paper towel. I joined an astronomy club and became friends with my mentor who helped me build the scope and taught me how to use my CG-4 manual mount and tripod since my Twilight One AZ mount couldn't handle the scope's length. My friend uses my scope to image and is delighted it came out so well.
Great mods Andy I like the spider vane mod may look at something similar for my 250P, it amazes me the even to this day Skywatcher still paint the focus tubes silver I've never really understood why they do this.
It odd isn't it, I don't understand why as a manufacturer you wouldn't actively improve the scope. They are capable of being very good, but it does seem odd. I guess it's to do with price point, and not wanting to spend more on production? They could really make these scope amazing with a few changes. Hope you are well.
Worse still in cheaper, plastic focusers they add a chrome finish to what was black plastic!
@@Cheapass-tro Yup been there with a cheap refractor some years ago, optically for an Achromat it were pretty good but the focuser was terrible. I did try & find one that would fit but sadly it wasn't to be.
Great video. Regarding an aperture mask that covers the outermost few millimetres of the primary, so great is the improvement in contrast due to covering the *turned down edge* (TdE) most mirrors suffer, that the contrast gain more than makes up for the slight loss of aperture.
Ironically, no commercial scope will ever have an aperture mask (they cannot admit to TdE), but almost all should have one fitted! Noticeably better views.
I remember a time many years ago when a now defunct british company offered some of its newtonians in Kit form. the beauty of this being that you only paid for what you needed. Seems to me that Sky Watcher Newts are being increasingly purchased for the optical components and tube only as the rest of assembly is not suitable for imaging. I looked at upgrading my 150P but decided to put the money I would need to buy the parts towards a CAT 51. I do not regret it. Still I am impressed with the final results you have achieved (maybe one day I'll have another look at upgrading the old 150P).
I think you are very much correct. I didn't initially think of it as a kit of parts, but when I started using the scopes for DSO imaging, the need for additional changes to improve it became clear. There are some easy improvements which can be made, stopping light leaks etc. The biggest issue I've found is the loose primary mirror, which caused all of my calibration issues. I hope I've now got those sorted for the new season later in the year. Thanks for watching.
Excellent video, "THANK YOU!".
Flocking the OTA is the best mod I've made.
Well, maybe next to using a green laser as a finder/'pointer'.
I'll swap out my screws for 'Bob's Knobs' & make a 'try' aperture mask.
I think I'll try ~4-5mm width but I don't know what diameters to use.
Orion 'says' its a 6"/150mm primary mirror but the OTA I.D. is larger.
Guess I'll have to pull the cell to measure it.
I think the software you used is *very* interesting but I'm not familiar w/ it.
Can we do the same w/ only optical/eyeballing it?
I've found collimation is very important but my scope hardly ever needs it.
But I only do optical observing unless I 'snap' a pic w/ my phone.
It's usually not worth the effort even tho I bought an expensive phone mount.
If your focuser tube intrudes into the light path of the scope you can get away with it for visual astronomy but for astrophotography you almost have to cut it down - it makes awful diffraction fuzz on any bright star. On the plus side, they're almost always aluminum, and there is a good bit of it that has nothing to do with actually focusing the telescope.
Yes, I might have to cut it down a bit, I need to check the focus point and then measure the tube length required.
On Skywatcher scopes the weakest link is the focuser. Upgrade that first.
Hi! Great video! Have you found a 3D print spider for the 200 scope? I would be keen to know. Cheers Rita
No I've not found one. I think it might be because a lot of 3d printers are too small to print a 200p/pds spider. It needs a large print bed. My printer is too small for a 200. I might be able to make an aperture mask, but even that is a bit big. If I do find one, or get to design one, I'll post it.
Hi!
I am interested in your experience with the printed spider. Does it hold collimation, the test of time etc.
Also what material did you print with?
Best regards.
Have you ever tried a hood or baffle on the secondary mirror?
Did you have to measure all 4 spider veins to be exact/flush with a caliper when putting it back in?
Did you use PLA for the spider? Be careful as it gets soft and deforms at relatively low temperatures can hopelessly deform in a how car for example.
Have you made the printed piece of any special material or with any specific pickpocket apart from the measures? Thanks.
I use standard PLA with the 3d printer. Thanks
Hi, i have a few questions.
1 - What material was the 130PDS spider vanes and mirror holder printed in?
2 - Hows the spider holding up? Warps or cracks? Collimation? Hows it handle cold temperatures, if you've tested it in those conditions?
3 - What sized washer did you use for the secondary mirror?
Hello, 1) material used was pla. 2) I've not yet been through a winter as I printed this a couple of months or so ago, so far I've not noticed any changes to the material - however collimation has been good so far. 3) washer was a 30mm diameter (m10-m12 ish). Hope this helps.
@AndyofAstro wow fast reply, thanks for the info. I'll be working on some of these mods, though I'm too scared to paint the mirror
How do you compensate for offset of the secondary mirror with a non-adjustable 3D printed spider. There is a reason that spiders are made the way they have been. They need to be movable in the OTA for proper offset and collimation. Did you compensate for the shortening of the focal length with the addition of the thick washer to the back of the secondary holder, and why did you not also paint that washer black as well? Have you talked to recoaters to see if they have any issues with you adding paint to the optics? It very well might add additional charges for stripping and time in shop when it comes time to recoat the primary and secondary.
FFS dude! This is a £240 telescope. lol
@@pompeymonkey3271 Not that your opinion matters, but it begs to question why anyone would take away the adjustablilty or possibly add additional costs down the road for an inexpensive scope.
Hello, thanks for watching. To help clarify as best I can. The Spider is to create stability for holding collimation, it isn't adjustable, however it is central and when I collimated with the Ocal and my Cheshire, no off set was required. The washer is clamped between the spider and the mirror support and therefore didn't need to be painted as it is not visible. The focal length of the scope is unchanged because the collimation bolts are just a tiny bit further out (1.5mm) and therefore the mirrors are in the same position. I have not talked to recoaters, however at this price bracket, if I get 10 years from a scope I'd be super happy and then I'll see how it goes. I suspect the mirrors will probably last quite a long time if looked after. First Light Optics do a similar Spider from Backyard Universe for a variety of scope sizes and the idea is to create stability in the telescope for collimation. I am considering one for the 200PDS as my 3D printer is too small to print one. I have had quite a journey over the last year getting the Newts to be optically stable, and hold collimation as best they can during an imaging session. The main issue for me has been mirror movement, light leaks and reflections, which causes my calibration frames to not match the lights, generating artifacts in the images. My goal is just to get the scopes to be a reliable platform for imaging. A few youtube channels like Cuiv the Lazy Geek et al have outlines modification similar to mine to improve the performance for Newtonian's. You are correct, the lack of adjustment could be an issue, as could the painting the mirror edge and rear, however I am just wanting to be able to get some reliable results from the scope which up until now have been tricky beasts to get to perform well, it has been a lottery with every night of imaging weather they work on not. I hope this helps to answer some questions. Best wishes.
Why I can't see full primary mirror in oculus ?
5:30 Would that washer actually help with collimation? I would have thought it's just adding more material to expand or contract with temperature variations.
It gives a stable surface, however I've not tried removing it to compare. Thanks.
Hi Andy, I'm new to this,but I really want to do Astrophotography. I have a Skywatcher 250pds. I'm about to try flocking and painting my Secondary mirror. But can I ask where do I get a spider 3D printed ? And approx how much is it to have printed. Thanks so much for your helpful Vid.
Regards Roy.
Hi Roy, thanks so much for watching. The 250pds is a beast and I've not found a 3d print file on the internet, however there are metal spiders available from Backyard Universe, I found one from First Light Optics. I hope this helps. www.firstlightoptics.com/misc/backyard-universe-secondary-mirror-spider-for-sky-watcher-250mm-newtonian-telescopes.html
Best wishes and good luck with the project. Clear skies!
Two arms are even one strong arm would be better than 4 arms on the spider, or though I do like the look for the stars with 4 light beams
Now I have used Newtonian telescope for 1.5 months (> 7 objects are captured).
None of these “10 things” are applied. Worked perfectly out of box. No collimation, no masking, no nothing; sharp like razor. Telescope is Epsilon 160 ED.
Takahashi are a different beast. They are pretty much the best of the best and very different to my low budget scopes. Clear sky's.
@@AndyofAstro Yes, you are right. I have other quite good scopes, including Esprit 120ed. They don’t come even close to Tak. Tak has something special regarding color representation, dynamic range and sharpness.
But, you are right, Tak is very expensive.
#1 CLEANROOM so cleaning it doesn't make it worse 😒
Astronomers need to learn about Black 4.0
How about using Musuo black paint? The world's flattest, blackest paint.
Masking tape is your friend.
0:00 ?? 😳
"&%$@ing is a process where you stick." Huh?! :)
Sensible advice
Many thanks
Thanks Andy I have just painted my secondary and the focuser tube thank you for your advice! Great tips to improve seeing. I make 2-inch 50mm eyepieces from old binoculars.Here's a review on one of mine and links on how to make it yourself! ruclips.net/video/82pJQQqTFQk/видео.html
Brilliant, thanks for watching, best wishes with your scope!
@@AndyofAstro Thanks Andy Happy New Year!
i don't at all trust myself to be able to remove the 2ndary mirror/spider like that and paint the edges, so nope.
Flocking Newts....
The fact you have to do this means this telescope is junk, cut your losses, sell it or give it to a school.
What telescope do you own?
Sometimes you can improve a product by spending a bit of time doing things that would be costly for them to do during manufacturing, but are easy to do yourself (albeit time consuming)