Oh my goodness! I was so excited when I saw this, and even more excited when I realized that you were responding to me. So sorry for just now seeing this. Thank you so much for testing it out for me! I’ve been without power for a week due to the hurricane. You have no idea how much this made me smile!😊
Glad to hear your power is back on, and thanks also for the comment. It's great that you enjoyed the video 😀. I am very lucky to get such great comments on my videos, and many of the ideas for the videos come from comments people have made. Thanks again 😀👍
I had a thought that it should be possible to add a little dynamo running off the rim of the turntable, and using it to power the electronics, so the amplifier would also be running from the spring power, making a completely wind-up gramophone capable of playing vinyl records.
Did something similar as a teenager in the mid 1960's. Got decent results, but gut feeling is better quality motors (I used an HMV) would hold speed with greater accuracy. If motor manufacturers had envisaged such use, could imagine they'd have altered the leverage ratio on the speed regulator to make setting at lower speeds less fiddly. A fine pitch screw style speed regulator may also have given better fine control.
This machine should have an HMV Type 32 motor, but I'm sure the one I put in it is actually a Victor improved 2 spring motor. I will try my HMV162 which does have Type 32 to see if it can go as slow. The HMV130 is unfortunately sitting on top of the HMV162 so I will have to move it first! 😅. I would agree that cheaper motors probably won't do nearly as well, but I can give them a go too. Thanks 👍 😀
Yes, though, in this case, the stylus was suitable for the records I was playing. The vinyl 78 was probably normal as opposed to microgroove however I know similar records were advertised to work fine with any stylus. Thanks 👍 😀
I thought you would be using the soundbox to play the record😂 but of course you do cuz it will damage it also might slow down the spring motor as vinyl record is more thin so more heavy the soundbox weighing down the record which also weight down the note as well! I am even surprised the motor could go that slow like my machine only have 78 rpm and 80 rpm I think, if you remember correctly it was my victor machine which is the only gramophone I have. Anyways nice idea and I have a new idea for a video for you! Can you play a 78 with a fingernail? The idea is so gross yet so cool! Anyways thanks and if you’re out wondering I haven’t posted videos yet because I am in the exam period now so hopefully when exams end I could make videos again!
Fingernail idea is a good one. I might try that! 😅. Thanks 😀👍. I will attempt to play a 33rpm, maybe with a lightweight soundbox or possibly with the original soundbox. That will require a counterweight, and even then, it will still damage the record. Hope your exams are going well! Good luck 👍
In fact in 1960 an American retail chain (Lafayette Radio and Electronics) sold an ACOUSTIC STEREO TONE ARM for playing 33 LPs!! It sold for $25 or $30 with test & demonstration record. While its original purpose was to let people "try" stereo it was also promoted for private listening, I seem to recall it was included with Lafayettes high end portables. The kit contained a plastic tone arm, doctor's stethoscope earpiece, and mountings. The mountings were: ONE>Flat plate, with screws for attaching to motor board. TWO>Post to go through motor board, of trilled 3/r inch hole and 2 temporary ways THREE>Double sides adhesive pads for flat plate. F0UR> Suction cup system. The attachment point usually at lower left but could be at top left .or lower right also. The list ing tubes attached to base and 2 tubes in tone arm connected to base at other side . At front of tone arm was a Y shaped needly, the upper "arms" of Y were connected to pencil eraser sized sound boxes, then tubes through arm to base. The device was RIAA COMPLIANT AND FULL STEREO. It worked!!! Only 2 flaws were 1, Low Volume at timrd. 2, High track grams
@@mrrgstuffI’m horrible with technology, but I bet there’s someone out there who could 3D print a sound box to attach to a modern tone arm. It might sound horrible, but I’ve played a plastic trombone before and it actually wasn’t too bad.
@emily5968 Yes, 3D printed soundboxes are entirely possible. I have made a few myself, like this one: ruclips.net/video/GwkSmJzJ_bU/видео.html Talking of plastic horns, I think they can sound just fine. Have you seen this video: ruclips.net/video/6RvdinNEHyA/видео.html This machine has a lightweight soundbox, which will play vinyl, though a little wear/damage is likely. Thanks 😀 👍
I wonder if you could create a clockspring prime mover for a 33/45 compatible gramophone. It really shouldn't be that difficult. You already have the clockspring motors capable of storing a lot of energy and the governor to control how quickly the energy is released. Instead of mechanically driving the platter, it could mechanically drive a small generator. Since it takes much less energy to drive a modern record player than it takes to drive an old gramophone, I would think you could get enough power out of it to play a relative short 33 and basically almost all 45s, basically all 7" 45s.
Yes, there are certainly options around that. It would probably make sense to slow the motor down (maybe 60rpm) to increase the running time of the clockwork motor. This would then generate electricity for longer, which would allow longer records to be played. Another option that someone else mentioned was to drive the generator off the rim of the platter, which probably will work too, though more energy would be used spinning the platter than using a modern low powered record player.
Yes, indeed. For a future video, I am experimenting with this on my little DIY crank gramophone using a capacitor. It's only able to store a small amount, but that would go further driving a lightweight plastic platter than the metal plater on that one. Thanks
@@mrrgstuff You should use a nickel cadmium battery. A capacitor won't hold enough energy. 3 of 4 nicad aaa cells can be had for less money than a large capacitor and they don't require any complex circuitry.
@tarstarkusz We've been round this conversation already. The issue with traditional rechargeable batteries is that you can't just charge them up in a few minutes, basically the length of time the spring motor would run for. Something like a supercapacitor should work better. Also, Lipo battery technology, like found in very small helicopter models, would be a better bet. Both supercapacitors and Lipo batteries are also low voltage (around 3v) so multiple (2 or 3) ones or voltage boost circuitry would be required. I'm not saying batteries can't work, but trying to charge batteries too fast is dangerous, so I need to use something appropriate. Thanks
Вы исполнили мою мечту, ха) видел в музеях, как ради полноценности ставят на старинные граммофоны 33-оборотный винил. Мне было больно на это смотреть, хотя всегда было интересно послушать, как это звучит
It's because although it looks fine to the human eye, it doesn't have enough contrast to show up well on camera. I filmed this video a couple of weeks ago, and since then I have found a filter to put over the display which seems to help a lot. More on this DIY tester, here: ruclips.net/video/x5ZZIaDR1aY/видео.htmlsi=QAjmaNxKNCJTlK8B Thanks 👍 😀
Yes, a mechanically driven 45rpm player is indeed possible. There are a couple of designs I can think of. I have too many projects, but maybe I will get around to it! 😅. Thanks 😀 👍
I really wish I knew why you are using that Arduino device to measure the speed when a speed disk is so much better. Your device is ridiculously complicated and involves having to put a large weight on the record. A simple piece of paper and lightbulb will do the job better and more accurately. Your device will not measure wow and flutter either (not in the tolerance of a 2 digit display), whereas the piece of paper will. Sometimes the new way is better, but sometimes the old way is better. The Arduino device is complexity for complexity's sake and not even as good as the 100 year old solution. The 2 digit display greatly reduces its usefulness. It could be a percent too fast or it can be too slow. No ability to measure wow and flutter other than wow and flutter so bad you would hear it.
I could use a stroboscopic disk. However, the main issue is lighting. All the lights in my workshop are LED. In order to get the stroboscopic disk to work, I have to use an incandescent light AND turn the LED ones off, which gives me light level and focus problems with the cameras. The Arduino device certainly is more complicated than a piece of paper, but it also gives me a direct numerical reading, which I prefer for videos. I have had some contrast issues with the display, but I think I have fixed that now. The weight of the plastic target is insignificant, at about 16g. A 7" vinyl single is over 30g and these gramophone motors will happily spin a cellphone for measuring, too, without having any noticeable impact on the speed. The Arduino device does allow me to measure the speed of a record actually being played, which the stroboscopic disk and cellphone solution don't. If I wasn't filming then the lighting issues wouldn't be so much of a problem, but then all the lights in my house (let alone the workshop) are LED too, so I would still need to keep a special lamp for use with the disk. Incandescent lights are being fairly aggressively phased out in the UK, so I am not going to go back to them in order to use a stroboscopic disk. I can't comment on wow and flutter as I have not done any investigation into it, but yes, my Arduino device does not attempt to measure it.
@@mrrgstuff You probably didn't realize at the time, but every time you put the device close to the camera, it was so dark you could barely see it. I thought your target was metal. Fair enough. There are discs you can print that have multiple rings with 1 being the right speed, another being 1% fast, another being 2% fast and then 2 more for 1 and 2% slow. You can see wow and flutter in the discs because their speed/movement of the dots will not be steady. They are very intuitive. Frankly I think you like that it's over complicated. This is not an insult. When I was younger I thought the same exact way. It's newer and more complex and therefore better. Another thing you can do is sit your phone on top of the target. There are many free applications for displaying the RPM using the accelerometer in your phone. Anything spinning is always accelerating. Even the free ones are pretty accurate. I'm certainly not suggesting you do it, but people installed lights in their gramophones for that purpose and for ease of needle changing. A lot of gramophones have a light built into them, especially ones with electric motors and acoustic reproducers. Not only can you run a stroboscope disk with them, they come in handy for changing the needle. A light on an extension cord or even a trouble light would work well enough. It shows up REALLY well on camera. Anyway, hope you didn't take my comment as aggressive or mean spirited, because it wasn't meant that way.
The 2 digit display is limited, though it's actually more like a 2.5 digit one, as the right decimal point comes on when it is closer to the next value than the one displayed. Still limited accuracy, though. The darkness you see when I bring it close to the camera is deliberate if unfortunate as I am increasing the contrast of the display in the video editor. The display really needs a little hood as in some videos it is quite difficult to read on camera due to the brightness of the video lights. I've done some experiments, and I know a simple hood will work. I know you are a big fan of stroboscopic disks, and thanks for the information on them. I'm not knocking them. For the purposes of allowing you to set your turntable to an accurate predefined speed, they work as intended, and if you have a suitable light, then a good and cheap solution too. For the purposes of making videos, they are less useful to me. I've already talked about the lighting issues, though I could add a special bright incandescent light. I would want it to match the colour temperature as all my other lights, though, which a traditional bulb wouldn't. Assuming I sorted that, then I would need to have the camera fairly zoomed onto the disk to show up the pattern. I can't really use one to measure the speed of a record actually being played, unless I used a very small disk that only covers the label area, but see my point above about having to zoom the camera in. Big or small disk, I would probably need a dedicated camera for it or go handheld. The disk itself doesn't give a direct speed reading. It tells me if it is fast or slow, but not how much. I understand that disks can have multiple rings with different speeds, but I think a direct rpm reading is more easily understood by viewers As the disk has multiple rings, I would need to either remember to explain which ring to look at or annotate in the video. Any markings on the disk are not visible whilst it is rotating. So taking this video as an example, I could have used a disk to set the speed to 45, played a record and then 33, before playing the other record, but I wouldn't have then had the effect of slowing down the audio as I went along. It certainly would have been a shorter video, though I don't think more interesting. I'm not suggesting anyone builds an Arduino one, and I don't provide plans anyway. There are similar commercial ones anyway. I've also tested both against a spinning phone, as seen in this video: ruclips.net/video/hLoFjPrpM1A/видео.htmlsi=uKGzbjOXX9UhH1Qp So, I am not discounting the advantages you point out. However there are other considerations for me beyond accuracy. I don't think we are going to agree on this one though. Thanks
To be honest videos like these are really entertaining.
Thanks 👍 😀. Glad you enjoyed it! 😀
Oh my goodness! I was so excited when I saw this, and even more excited when I realized that you were responding to me. So sorry for just now seeing this. Thank you so much for testing it out for me! I’ve been without power for a week due to the hurricane. You have no idea how much this made me smile!😊
Glad to hear your power is back on, and thanks also for the comment. It's great that you enjoyed the video 😀. I am very lucky to get such great comments on my videos, and many of the ideas for the videos come from comments people have made. Thanks again 😀👍
I had a thought that it should be possible to add a little dynamo running off the rim of the turntable, and using it to power the electronics, so the amplifier would also be running from the spring power, making a completely wind-up gramophone capable of playing vinyl records.
Yes, I think that would work. I will have to see if I have anything suitable to use as a dynamo for rhos application. Thanks 👍 😀
That was a fun little experiment, thanks.
Thanks 👍 😀. Glad you enjoyed it 😀
Did something similar as a teenager in the mid 1960's. Got decent results, but gut feeling is better quality motors (I used an HMV) would hold speed with greater accuracy. If motor manufacturers had envisaged such use, could imagine they'd have altered the leverage ratio on the speed regulator to make setting at lower speeds less fiddly. A fine pitch screw style speed regulator may also have given better fine control.
This machine should have an HMV Type 32 motor, but I'm sure the one I put in it is actually a Victor improved 2 spring motor. I will try my HMV162 which does have Type 32 to see if it can go as slow. The HMV130 is unfortunately sitting on top of the HMV162 so I will have to move it first! 😅. I would agree that cheaper motors probably won't do nearly as well, but I can give them a go too. Thanks 👍 😀
@@mrrgstuff I have gramophones sitting on top of one another too. Its always the bottom one I want!
The most important thing regardless of speed is the correct stylus for the grooves.
Yes, though, in this case, the stylus was suitable for the records I was playing. The vinyl 78 was probably normal as opposed to microgroove however I know similar records were advertised to work fine with any stylus. Thanks 👍 😀
I thought you would be using the soundbox to play the record😂 but of course you do cuz it will damage it also might slow down the spring motor as vinyl record is more thin so more heavy the soundbox weighing down the record which also weight down the note as well! I am even surprised the motor could go that slow like my machine only have 78 rpm and 80 rpm I think, if you remember correctly it was my victor machine which is the only gramophone I have. Anyways nice idea and I have a new idea for a video for you! Can you play a 78 with a fingernail? The idea is so gross yet so cool! Anyways thanks and if you’re out wondering I haven’t posted videos yet because I am in the exam period now so hopefully when exams end I could make videos again!
Fingernail idea is a good one. I might try that! 😅. Thanks 😀👍. I will attempt to play a 33rpm, maybe with a lightweight soundbox or possibly with the original soundbox. That will require a counterweight, and even then, it will still damage the record. Hope your exams are going well! Good luck 👍
In fact in 1960 an American retail chain (Lafayette Radio and Electronics) sold an ACOUSTIC STEREO TONE ARM for playing 33 LPs!!
It sold for $25 or $30 with test & demonstration record. While its original purpose was to let people "try" stereo it was also promoted for private listening, I seem to recall it was included with Lafayettes high end portables.
The kit contained a plastic tone arm, doctor's stethoscope earpiece, and mountings. The mountings were:
ONE>Flat plate, with screws for attaching to motor board.
TWO>Post to go through motor board, of trilled 3/r inch hole
and 2 temporary ways
THREE>Double sides adhesive pads for flat plate.
F0UR> Suction cup system.
The attachment point usually at lower left but could be at top left .or lower right also. The list ing tubes attached to base and 2 tubes in tone arm connected to base at other side .
At front of tone arm was a Y shaped needly, the upper "arms" of Y were connected to pencil eraser sized sound boxes, then tubes through arm to base.
The device was RIAA COMPLIANT AND FULL STEREO. It worked!!!
Only 2 flaws were
1, Low Volume at timrd.
2, High track grams
That's very interesting to hear about. I am amazed they were actually able to make something like that work! Thanks 😀 👍
I thought your gonna actually play the record with the phonograph tonearm
😅. That will be a video for another day! I think record damage would be unavoidable, but I think I do know how to do it. Thanks 👍 😀
Same
@@mrrgstuffI’m horrible with technology, but I bet there’s someone out there who could 3D print a sound box to attach to a modern tone arm. It might sound horrible, but I’ve played a plastic trombone before and it actually wasn’t too bad.
@emily5968 Yes, 3D printed soundboxes are entirely possible. I have made a few myself, like this one:
ruclips.net/video/GwkSmJzJ_bU/видео.html
Talking of plastic horns, I think they can sound just fine. Have you seen this video:
ruclips.net/video/6RvdinNEHyA/видео.html
This machine has a lightweight soundbox, which will play vinyl, though a little wear/damage is likely.
Thanks 😀 👍
I wonder if you could create a clockspring prime mover for a 33/45 compatible gramophone. It really shouldn't be that difficult. You already have the clockspring motors capable of storing a lot of energy and the governor to control how quickly the energy is released. Instead of mechanically driving the platter, it could mechanically drive a small generator. Since it takes much less energy to drive a modern record player than it takes to drive an old gramophone, I would think you could get enough power out of it to play a relative short 33 and basically almost all 45s, basically all 7" 45s.
Yes, there are certainly options around that. It would probably make sense to slow the motor down (maybe 60rpm) to increase the running time of the clockwork motor. This would then generate electricity for longer, which would allow longer records to be played. Another option that someone else mentioned was to drive the generator off the rim of the platter, which probably will work too, though more energy would be used spinning the platter than using a modern low powered record player.
@@mrrgstuff You could also capture extra power generated that isn't used in real time to extend the playtime.
Yes, indeed. For a future video, I am experimenting with this on my little DIY crank gramophone using a capacitor. It's only able to store a small amount, but that would go further driving a lightweight plastic platter than the metal plater on that one. Thanks
@@mrrgstuff You should use a nickel cadmium battery. A capacitor won't hold enough energy. 3 of 4 nicad aaa cells can be had for less money than a large capacitor and they don't require any complex circuitry.
@tarstarkusz We've been round this conversation already. The issue with traditional rechargeable batteries is that you can't just charge them up in a few minutes, basically the length of time the spring motor would run for. Something like a supercapacitor should work better. Also, Lipo battery technology, like found in very small helicopter models, would be a better bet. Both supercapacitors and Lipo batteries are also low voltage (around 3v) so multiple (2 or 3) ones or voltage boost circuitry would be required. I'm not saying batteries can't work, but trying to charge batteries too fast is dangerous, so I need to use something appropriate. Thanks
No idea what you did there, but that was fascinating to watch.
Thanks 😀 👍. Glad you enjoyed it 😀
Can the 'victor program transcription records' be played this gramophone?
I'm sorry, I don't know. I have never seen one of those records, and I don't know anything about them.
wow fanastic job man 👍
Thanks 👍 😀. Glad you enjoyed it! 😀
your welcome man 😄
Nice experiment! How did you reach 33rpm on the gramophone? Adjusting also the break?
This machine will slow right down without any special adjustment. I think a lot of gramophone motors would not be able to do that. Thanks 👍 😀
Everyone loves gramophones but everyone hates 78s. This is something all lp collectors who aren’t elites wish they could do haha. Fun experiment.
I hadn't thought of it like that, but yes, people seem to like the idea of gramophones more than the records that play on them! Thanks 😀 👍
Nice Record, You don't get any copyright issues right ? Cool video
@vogelfranzi5315 This record seems to avoid any copyright issues, but that of course could change any day. Thanks 👍 😀
Great
@@dwanereads Thanks 😀👍
Вы исполнили мою мечту, ха) видел в музеях, как ради полноценности ставят на старинные граммофоны 33-оборотный винил. Мне было больно на это смотреть, хотя всегда было интересно послушать, как это звучит
I think there are plenty of videos where people destroy vinyl using a gramophone. At least in my experiment, no harm was done. Thanks 👍 😀
😠 ~ why were you edit-dimming the video for the LED segment display on your diy speed meter?
It's because although it looks fine to the human eye, it doesn't have enough contrast to show up well on camera. I filmed this video a couple of weeks ago, and since then I have found a filter to put over the display which seems to help a lot. More on this DIY tester, here:
ruclips.net/video/x5ZZIaDR1aY/видео.htmlsi=QAjmaNxKNCJTlK8B
Thanks 👍 😀
Grameenphone
It is possible
I know a chap that did that 😳
😅. Thanks 👍 😀
Yet is needs power, wat is you can make a 45 rpm mechanical grammophone. So no electricity is needed.
Yes, a mechanically driven 45rpm player is indeed possible. There are a couple of designs I can think of. I have too many projects, but maybe I will get around to it! 😅. Thanks 😀 👍
@mrrgstuff and even 33 rpm, lets think of it, brengen the old to the new! No electricity no problem.
I am more interested in the record
Which one, the 45rpm or 33rpm one? I've posted details of the former on my community tab. Thanks 👍 😀
But that's cool though.
@@digidoridvideos3672 Thanks 😀👍
I really wish I knew why you are using that Arduino device to measure the speed when a speed disk is so much better. Your device is ridiculously complicated and involves having to put a large weight on the record. A simple piece of paper and lightbulb will do the job better and more accurately. Your device will not measure wow and flutter either (not in the tolerance of a 2 digit display), whereas the piece of paper will.
Sometimes the new way is better, but sometimes the old way is better. The Arduino device is complexity for complexity's sake and not even as good as the 100 year old solution. The 2 digit display greatly reduces its usefulness. It could be a percent too fast or it can be too slow. No ability to measure wow and flutter other than wow and flutter so bad you would hear it.
I could use a stroboscopic disk. However, the main issue is lighting. All the lights in my workshop are LED. In order to get the stroboscopic disk to work, I have to use an incandescent light AND turn the LED ones off, which gives me light level and focus problems with the cameras. The Arduino device certainly is more complicated than a piece of paper, but it also gives me a direct numerical reading, which I prefer for videos. I have had some contrast issues with the display, but I think I have fixed that now. The weight of the plastic target is insignificant, at about 16g. A 7" vinyl single is over 30g and these gramophone motors will happily spin a cellphone for measuring, too, without having any noticeable impact on the speed. The Arduino device does allow me to measure the speed of a record actually being played, which the stroboscopic disk and cellphone solution don't. If I wasn't filming then the lighting issues wouldn't be so much of a problem, but then all the lights in my house (let alone the workshop) are LED too, so I would still need to keep a special lamp for use with the disk. Incandescent lights are being fairly aggressively phased out in the UK, so I am not going to go back to them in order to use a stroboscopic disk. I can't comment on wow and flutter as I have not done any investigation into it, but yes, my Arduino device does not attempt to measure it.
@@mrrgstuff You probably didn't realize at the time, but every time you put the device close to the camera, it was so dark you could barely see it.
I thought your target was metal. Fair enough.
There are discs you can print that have multiple rings with 1 being the right speed, another being 1% fast, another being 2% fast and then 2 more for 1 and 2% slow.
You can see wow and flutter in the discs because their speed/movement of the dots will not be steady. They are very intuitive.
Frankly I think you like that it's over complicated. This is not an insult. When I was younger I thought the same exact way. It's newer and more complex and therefore better.
Another thing you can do is sit your phone on top of the target. There are many free applications for displaying the RPM using the accelerometer in your phone. Anything spinning is always accelerating. Even the free ones are pretty accurate.
I'm certainly not suggesting you do it, but people installed lights in their gramophones for that purpose and for ease of needle changing. A lot of gramophones have a light built into them, especially ones with electric motors and acoustic reproducers. Not only can you run a stroboscope disk with them, they come in handy for changing the needle.
A light on an extension cord or even a trouble light would work well enough. It shows up REALLY well on camera.
Anyway, hope you didn't take my comment as aggressive or mean spirited, because it wasn't meant that way.
The 2 digit display is limited, though it's actually more like a 2.5 digit one, as the right decimal point comes on when it is closer to the next value than the one displayed. Still limited accuracy, though.
The darkness you see when I bring it close to the camera is deliberate if unfortunate as I am increasing the contrast of the display in the video editor. The display really needs a little hood as in some videos it is quite difficult to read on camera due to the brightness of the video lights. I've done some experiments, and I know a simple hood will work.
I know you are a big fan of stroboscopic disks, and thanks for the information on them. I'm not knocking them. For the purposes of allowing you to set your turntable to an accurate predefined speed, they work as intended, and if you have a suitable light, then a good and cheap solution too.
For the purposes of making videos, they are less useful to me. I've already talked about the lighting issues, though I could add a special bright incandescent light. I would want it to match the colour temperature as all my other lights, though, which a traditional bulb wouldn't.
Assuming I sorted that, then I would need to have the camera fairly zoomed onto the disk to show up the pattern.
I can't really use one to measure the speed of a record actually being played, unless I used a very small disk that only covers the label area, but see my point above about having to zoom the camera in. Big or small disk, I would probably need a dedicated camera for it or go handheld.
The disk itself doesn't give a direct speed reading. It tells me if it is fast or slow, but not how much. I understand that disks can have multiple rings with different speeds, but I think a direct rpm reading is more easily understood by viewers
As the disk has multiple rings, I would need to either remember to explain which ring to look at or annotate in the video. Any markings on the disk are not visible whilst it is rotating.
So taking this video as an example, I could have used a disk to set the speed to 45, played a record and then 33, before playing the other record, but I wouldn't have then had the effect of slowing down the audio as I went along. It certainly would have been a shorter video, though I don't think more interesting.
I'm not suggesting anyone builds an Arduino one, and I don't provide plans anyway. There are similar commercial ones anyway. I've also tested both against a spinning phone, as seen in this video:
ruclips.net/video/hLoFjPrpM1A/видео.htmlsi=uKGzbjOXX9UhH1Qp
So, I am not discounting the advantages you point out. However there are other considerations for me beyond accuracy. I don't think we are going to agree on this one though. Thanks