hey Scott, thanks for the details here. i know this is an older video, but it helped me out today, appreciaet it. curious long-term: hows this array treating you? it continue to do what it's supposed to, or been riddled with issues over the years? TIA for info, looking to add this as a redundant backup to my primary 8bay editing array, seems like good solution. thanks!
I have two of these now. One with a set of 10TB and one with a set of 14TB. Currently I have them in RAID 5 instead of RAID 10 because I'm running out of space. I don't have them running that often. Only when I'm saving data or pulling something from a past project. Like you mentioned I also have multiple complete copies so I'm thinking that not using RAID might be fine. I might swap them to JBOD to get more space. Hard disks are so expensive and saving my video and photography work uses a ton.
@@ScottJWaldron awesome info, thanks. sounds like it's a pretty drama-free device. Seems like with reasonable expectations, this is a reliable little array 👍 thanks for the input, sooo easy to end up with 'too much reddit' syndrome on product homework like this, and appreciate ya sharing your direct experience. JBOD prob be fine for second copies; feel like we were doing so good on HD price 2010-2020, prices kept going down as larger drives became more prevalent, and making storage decisions/purchases did not require as much homework/planning. nowadays, it's just expensive 😢 I haven't pulled the trigger on them, but considering set of renewed drives for this next setup. Seeing these drives at nearly half price is certainly attractive, and seems viable for my workflow as redundancy/3rd copy essentially. Sounds like mixed results on what you receive, some have 100hours and some have 20k hr on them. General consensus seems to indicate if it doesn't bork out in the first few weeks, that folks are having good luck with them ~long-term, but it's a hard drive and just never know. Any experience with the renewed or recertified drives Scott? take care and happy 4th!
@@kernzilla I haven't tried renewed drives. These are are "shucked" from external drives. So far no failures but I tested them before removing them from their cases so I could return any that had an issue.
So basically you see that as an external drive, not as NAS? It is important to me because I am using backblaze cloud and it supports internal and external drives, bat not NAS, network drives.
Yes, this shows up in Windows like any normal external drive. It has dip switches on the back to contol RAID level or you can use the QNAP software. I use the software.
What was the speed you could get from the TR-004? Really difficult to judge from revies. Somebody testet SSDs in RAID0 and got 'only' 400+ MB/s. I am trying to get a RAID enclosure that doesn't top at slightly over 200MB/s while reading from the drive. Theoretically in RAID0 there should be at least 400MB/s possible with 4 drives. Also the USB 3.0 vs USB3.1 Type-C topic... There seems to have been an update? Sometimes it mentions USB 3.0 but the cables are all 3.1 onwards?
I just copied over a 67GB project from the TR-004 to a RAID 0 pair of SSDs. It transferred around 240MB/s with the four 10TB WD drives in RAID 1+0 mode (aka. RAID 10). I'm on 1.1.1 firmware and use their software to control the device. Writing speeds are lower at around 195 MB/s. It's possible my drives or the RAID configuration are the limit here. I don't have 4 SSDs to test with and this is my main backup so I can't mess around with it much. I'm using a USB-C to USB-C 3.1 Gen 2 cable ( amzn.to/3ijUTqF ) instead of the one that came with the device. I didn't notice any speed differences between the cables from what I can remember., but maybe this cable and port combo is slightly faster than the 3.0 ports. My motherboard has a single high speed USB-C SuperSpeed port I wanted to utilize because my high speed type-a ports are used for other external drives.
@@ScottJWaldron what if you use it as a JBOD and let windows/mac/or Linux manage the RAID (Software raid) Because I have the feeling that the DAS is soing its own "Software" RAID internally, which might be the limiting factor.
Hey Scott! This video is absolutely what I need. 😊 How's the fan noise? This TR004 will be in the same room as where I film my YT vids, would be nice if my lapel mic won't pick it up. Also, have you tried editing 4K vids straight off it? 😁 Any issues you faced since getting it 6 months ago? Thanks a bunch!
They can get pretty loud. Not sure how to quantify it. I definitely wouldn't want to have it running while recording. I'm not sure if it has some type of sleep mode because I only use them when I want to transfer something (I have two now). Another thing to consider is that 4 powered hard drives makes a decent amount of sound even when they are not seeking data.
I have both of them running in RAID 5 now which is like half the speed of RAID 10 (caps out around 200 MB/s). It would definitely be better than a single hard drive, but I'd suggest doing editing work on SSDs.
@@ScottJWaldron thanks for the update buddy. Will edit off my m.2 nvme and use these as backup... 4K YT vids are absolutely chewing up storage like nobody's business.. 🥺
I loaded up my 7Artisans 18mm lens video from the TR-004 with 4x 10TB drives in RAID 5. It definitely took a long time to startup but it worked okay jumping around the timeline with a mix of GoPro 4k footage and M50 1080p. Slower than the SSD I'm using currently, but ehhh... not terrible. I use Magix Vegas Pro 18 Edit on Windows 10 with a i7-6700, 32GB ram, and GTX 1060 gpu. 4K editing speed will depend on a mix of software and hardware.
@@ScottJWaldron thanks for the valuable info. Do you have a PayPal link so I can buy you a coffee? You should have that in your description. I'm not in the USA and can't use your links to purchase.
@Scott Waldron 7:44 Is it possible to create a separate RAID group that is in "individual mode" for a single drive? Eg: You have one RAID 5 group in bay #1, #2, #3 and another RAID group in "individual mode" for bay #4 ?
Sorry Alfred, I can't mess with it to confirm what is possible outside of my current configuration of RAID 5 spanned over 4 disks. It's best you contract QNAP directly to get specific technical questions answered outside of what I covered in the video. I don't want to be responsible for you buying something that doesn't fit your needs. That said, they have a PDF user guide for the software based control software. That shows the device being used in multiple ways. There is also another document specific to the TR-004. ( www.qnap.com/en-us/download?model=tr-004&category=documents ).
@@ScottJWaldron I see, that's oke. I've already contacted QNAP's technical support and their response was not clear. They also told me to read the software user guide for more info about the 'individual mode' and there isn't really any detailed info about it. I've also posted on the QNAP community forum, where a person suggested I create support ticket.
Just found out the the TR004 don't support RAID level migration or expansion... Quite a shame. I can't start with a single drive and change to a RAID 1 > RAID 5 or increase capacity by swapping out to bigger drives and let the RAID rebuild... This is a feature most NAS can do..
I see. This definitely isn't a NAS device. It's meant to work standalone directly connected to a PC or be a "storage pool" with a QNAP NAS, so the price reflects that. Get what makes sense for your needs. A process like that seems risky if you don't have a backup of your primary archive unless you are doing something simple like a single disk to RAID 1. I try to keep one or two copies of my main archive, but it definitely gets expensive.
Thank you for the great video! Couple of questions: 1. So you had no issues using shucked drives in the TR-004? I've read about a 3.3V pin issue that some users experience when connecting WD white label drives to their PC/NAS, so wanted to make sure these white label drives are plug'n'play with the TR-004 2. Is there a difference between setting a RAID mode using the DIP switch on the back vs. setting the RAID in the software ctrl mode? I mean, if connecting to another PC, would the drive(s) show up the same way regardless of which of the two options you used set the RAID? Or would software ctrl mode require the software to be installed on any PC you connect it to?
I haven't had to cover any power pins with the TR-004. I think that relates to older hardware that doesn't account for the newer specification. Right now I have two TR-004 filled with drives. The one in this video has 4x 10TB and the new one has 4x 14TB, all shucked western digital. I tried connecting one TR-004 to my laptop. It saw the device and I was able to read a random file. The laptop doesn't have QNAP's software on it. Both of my TR-004 are in the mode where they can be configured through software. I heard from someone else that you can't add drives to an existing array, so if you intend on completely filling the device with drives you might as well do it all at once unless you have an equivalent amount of storage you can copy over your files to temporarily. I'd personally never trust a raid device to expand an array while keeping data safe at the same time, so yeah. Though I might as well mention it anyways. The only thing I don't like about the TR-004 is that the fan can get kind of loud. Well, 4 drives spinning makes a lot of noise too. In my case I only have these running when I'm getting something I need or backing up data. I'm so used to SSD drives these days in my computer that an active HDD bothers me. I have a more recent video going over computer equipment and pretty much everything else I use for this channel. Not super relevant to the TR-004, but here it is: ruclips.net/video/mOiOIaJpvvs/видео.html
@@ScottJWaldron Thanks alot for the fast and thorough reply, really appreciate it. Definately planning on going for a four-drive RAID 5 setup from the get go. A little concerned with the noise level as - being a DAS for my PC - it will be close to where I'm sitting. In your opinion, would it be easy to replace the built-in fan with a Noctua fan - and would it be worth it with regards to the fan noise, or is the four spinning drives most of the noise-problem regardless? Also, I would have it stationary by my PC so I can quickly access my videofiles when needed. Though I'm not interested in it turning on (and all drives spinning up) automatically every time I turn on the PC, so would I have to use the on/off button on the back of it every time, or does it have a hibernate mode I can just wake it up from when needed?
So, you use software raid control. What are the reasons you chose software raid control over hardware raid control? Can you easily move the TR-004 between computers with software raid control? Does the second computer need the QNAP raid control software installed on it in order to read and write data on the TR-004? Have you had to replace a faulty drive yet?
The software is not needed once the tr-004 is set up unless you want to monitor, adjust, or update firmware. These devices act like one big removable drive. I actually have two of them now (one with 10tb drives and another with 14tb drives). I haven't replaced anything and hopefully will never need to until I switch out the drives for larger capacity.
@@ScottJWaldron Is it possible to set up two RAID 1 volumes (with 4 drives total) under software raid control? I don't think that's possible using hardware raid control.
@@philiphkahn www.qnap.com/en-us/download?model=tr-004&category=documents Not something I've tried and it's been a long time since I set them up, read through the manual if you want information besides what's in the video. I skimmed the pdf and there is a lot of information in there. I'd say probably yes.
Where do i begin. First of all the cost of hard drive you mentioned vs a portable drive to part out. There is a huge difference in a drive that is made for nas as you showed the wd red and the cheaper portables. Nas drives are made to run all the time so they will last you far longer than a hard drive you butchered from a portable case. Looking at this video im wondering if you really saved money dealing with all those drives and whatever connection you used. Personally i have a qnap 4 drive nas and just purchased the tr004 as an expansion to that. My nas has run non stop for the past 4 or 5 years. I never turn it off. Never once had any problems. Im using wd red drives in it. The tr004 add on is also going to get red drives installed. The benefits of having a nas is huge comparing to your set up. With my nes i stream videos to 4 tv in house and 3 over the internet. They all can watch different video at the same time with no buffering. I do my video editing on a hefty built desktop and move them to the nes for storage and viewing. To anyone watching this video, stop watching, get yourself a nas and live trouble free for years to come. Believe me, you will not be saving much money going this route. If you worry about cost, start with a 2 drive nas and add the tr004 as you need the space. But please dont listen to this guy.
Cool beans, do what works for you. My setup works fine and I've done it twice now. Clearly we have different use cases. I have no need for networked storage.
hey Scott, thanks for the details here. i know this is an older video, but it helped me out today, appreciaet it.
curious long-term: hows this array treating you? it continue to do what it's supposed to, or been riddled with issues over the years?
TIA for info, looking to add this as a redundant backup to my primary 8bay editing array, seems like good solution. thanks!
I have two of these now. One with a set of 10TB and one with a set of 14TB. Currently I have them in RAID 5 instead of RAID 10 because I'm running out of space. I don't have them running that often. Only when I'm saving data or pulling something from a past project.
Like you mentioned I also have multiple complete copies so I'm thinking that not using RAID might be fine. I might swap them to JBOD to get more space. Hard disks are so expensive and saving my video and photography work uses a ton.
@@ScottJWaldron awesome info, thanks. sounds like it's a pretty drama-free device. Seems like with reasonable expectations, this is a reliable little array 👍 thanks for the input, sooo easy to end up with 'too much reddit' syndrome on product homework like this, and appreciate ya sharing your direct experience.
JBOD prob be fine for second copies; feel like we were doing so good on HD price 2010-2020, prices kept going down as larger drives became more prevalent, and making storage decisions/purchases did not require as much homework/planning. nowadays, it's just expensive 😢 I haven't pulled the trigger on them, but considering set of renewed drives for this next setup. Seeing these drives at nearly half price is certainly attractive, and seems viable for my workflow as redundancy/3rd copy essentially. Sounds like mixed results on what you receive, some have 100hours and some have 20k hr on them. General consensus seems to indicate if it doesn't bork out in the first few weeks, that folks are having good luck with them ~long-term, but it's a hard drive and just never know. Any experience with the renewed or recertified drives Scott?
take care and happy 4th!
@@kernzilla I haven't tried renewed drives. These are are "shucked" from external drives. So far no failures but I tested them before removing them from their cases so I could return any that had an issue.
So basically you see that as an external drive, not as NAS? It is important to me because I am using backblaze cloud and it supports internal and external drives, bat not NAS, network drives.
Yes, this shows up in Windows like any normal external drive. It has dip switches on the back to contol RAID level or you can use the QNAP software. I use the software.
What was the speed you could get from the TR-004?
Really difficult to judge from revies. Somebody testet SSDs in RAID0 and got 'only' 400+ MB/s.
I am trying to get a RAID enclosure that doesn't top at slightly over 200MB/s while reading from the drive. Theoretically in RAID0 there should be at least 400MB/s possible with 4 drives.
Also the USB 3.0 vs USB3.1 Type-C topic... There seems to have been an update? Sometimes it mentions USB 3.0 but the cables are all 3.1 onwards?
I just copied over a 67GB project from the TR-004 to a RAID 0 pair of SSDs. It transferred around 240MB/s with the four 10TB WD drives in RAID 1+0 mode (aka. RAID 10). I'm on 1.1.1 firmware and use their software to control the device. Writing speeds are lower at around 195 MB/s. It's possible my drives or the RAID configuration are the limit here. I don't have 4 SSDs to test with and this is my main backup so I can't mess around with it much.
I'm using a USB-C to USB-C 3.1 Gen 2 cable ( amzn.to/3ijUTqF ) instead of the one that came with the device. I didn't notice any speed differences between the cables from what I can remember., but maybe this cable and port combo is slightly faster than the 3.0 ports. My motherboard has a single high speed USB-C SuperSpeed port I wanted to utilize because my high speed type-a ports are used for other external drives.
@@ScottJWaldron what if you use it as a JBOD and let windows/mac/or Linux manage the RAID (Software raid) Because I have the feeling that the DAS is soing its own "Software" RAID internally, which might be the limiting factor.
Nice video,, I'm gonna use 1 of these to backup a server with 40tbs on it
Smart idea
Hey Scott! This video is absolutely what I need. 😊 How's the fan noise? This TR004 will be in the same room as where I film my YT vids, would be nice if my lapel mic won't pick it up. Also, have you tried editing 4K vids straight off it? 😁 Any issues you faced since getting it 6 months ago? Thanks a bunch!
They can get pretty loud. Not sure how to quantify it. I definitely wouldn't want to have it running while recording. I'm not sure if it has some type of sleep mode because I only use them when I want to transfer something (I have two now). Another thing to consider is that 4 powered hard drives makes a decent amount of sound even when they are not seeking data.
I have both of them running in RAID 5 now which is like half the speed of RAID 10 (caps out around 200 MB/s). It would definitely be better than a single hard drive, but I'd suggest doing editing work on SSDs.
@@ScottJWaldron thanks for the update buddy. Will edit off my m.2 nvme and use these as backup... 4K YT vids are absolutely chewing up storage like nobody's business.. 🥺
I loaded up my 7Artisans 18mm lens video from the TR-004 with 4x 10TB drives in RAID 5. It definitely took a long time to startup but it worked okay jumping around the timeline with a mix of GoPro 4k footage and M50 1080p. Slower than the SSD I'm using currently, but ehhh... not terrible. I use Magix Vegas Pro 18 Edit on Windows 10 with a i7-6700, 32GB ram, and GTX 1060 gpu. 4K editing speed will depend on a mix of software and hardware.
@@ScottJWaldron thanks for the valuable info. Do you have a PayPal link so I can buy you a coffee? You should have that in your description. I'm not in the USA and can't use your links to purchase.
@Scott Waldron 7:44 Is it possible to create a separate RAID group that is in "individual mode" for a single drive?
Eg: You have one RAID 5 group in bay #1, #2, #3 and another RAID group in "individual mode" for bay #4 ?
Sorry Alfred, I can't mess with it to confirm what is possible outside of my current configuration of RAID 5 spanned over 4 disks.
It's best you contract QNAP directly to get specific technical questions answered outside of what I covered in the video. I don't want to be responsible for you buying something that doesn't fit your needs.
That said, they have a PDF user guide for the software based control software. That shows the device being used in multiple ways. There is also another document specific to the TR-004. ( www.qnap.com/en-us/download?model=tr-004&category=documents ).
@@ScottJWaldron I see, that's oke. I've already contacted QNAP's technical support and their response was not clear.
They also told me to read the software user guide for more info about the 'individual mode' and there isn't really any detailed info about it.
I've also posted on the QNAP community forum, where a person suggested I create support ticket.
Just found out the the TR004 don't support RAID level migration or expansion... Quite a shame. I can't start with a single drive and change to a RAID 1 > RAID 5 or increase capacity by swapping out to bigger drives and let the RAID rebuild... This is a feature most NAS can do..
I see. This definitely isn't a NAS device. It's meant to work standalone directly connected to a PC or be a "storage pool" with a QNAP NAS, so the price reflects that. Get what makes sense for your needs. A process like that seems risky if you don't have a backup of your primary archive unless you are doing something simple like a single disk to RAID 1. I try to keep one or two copies of my main archive, but it definitely gets expensive.
Thank you for the great video! Couple of questions:
1. So you had no issues using shucked drives in the TR-004? I've read about a 3.3V pin issue that some users experience when connecting WD white label drives to their PC/NAS, so wanted to make sure these white label drives are plug'n'play with the TR-004
2. Is there a difference between setting a RAID mode using the DIP switch on the back vs. setting the RAID in the software ctrl mode? I mean, if connecting to another PC, would the drive(s) show up the same way regardless of which of the two options you used set the RAID? Or would software ctrl mode require the software to be installed on any PC you connect it to?
I haven't had to cover any power pins with the TR-004. I think that relates to older hardware that doesn't account for the newer specification. Right now I have two TR-004 filled with drives. The one in this video has 4x 10TB and the new one has 4x 14TB, all shucked western digital.
I tried connecting one TR-004 to my laptop. It saw the device and I was able to read a random file. The laptop doesn't have QNAP's software on it. Both of my TR-004 are in the mode where they can be configured through software.
I heard from someone else that you can't add drives to an existing array, so if you intend on completely filling the device with drives you might as well do it all at once unless you have an equivalent amount of storage you can copy over your files to temporarily. I'd personally never trust a raid device to expand an array while keeping data safe at the same time, so yeah. Though I might as well mention it anyways.
The only thing I don't like about the TR-004 is that the fan can get kind of loud. Well, 4 drives spinning makes a lot of noise too. In my case I only have these running when I'm getting something I need or backing up data. I'm so used to SSD drives these days in my computer that an active HDD bothers me.
I have a more recent video going over computer equipment and pretty much everything else I use for this channel. Not super relevant to the TR-004, but here it is: ruclips.net/video/mOiOIaJpvvs/видео.html
@@ScottJWaldron Thanks alot for the fast and thorough reply, really appreciate it. Definately planning on going for a four-drive RAID 5 setup from the get go.
A little concerned with the noise level as - being a DAS for my PC - it will be close to where I'm sitting. In your opinion, would it be easy to replace the built-in fan with a Noctua fan - and would it be worth it with regards to the fan noise, or is the four spinning drives most of the noise-problem regardless?
Also, I would have it stationary by my PC so I can quickly access my videofiles when needed. Though I'm not interested in it turning on (and all drives spinning up) automatically every time I turn on the PC, so would I have to use the on/off button on the back of it every time, or does it have a hibernate mode I can just wake it up from when needed?
@Jesper Thorup I haven't attempted to disassemble it, so no idea on the fan. The device will spin down the drives after a while.
So, you use software raid control. What are the reasons you chose software raid control over hardware raid control? Can you easily move the TR-004 between computers with software raid control? Does the second computer need the QNAP raid control software installed on it in order to read and write data on the TR-004? Have you had to replace a faulty drive yet?
The software is not needed once the tr-004 is set up unless you want to monitor, adjust, or update firmware. These devices act like one big removable drive. I actually have two of them now (one with 10tb drives and another with 14tb drives). I haven't replaced anything and hopefully will never need to until I switch out the drives for larger capacity.
@@ScottJWaldron Is it possible to set up two RAID 1 volumes (with 4 drives total) under software raid control? I don't think that's possible using hardware raid control.
@@philiphkahn www.qnap.com/en-us/download?model=tr-004&category=documents
Not something I've tried and it's been a long time since I set them up, read through the manual if you want information besides what's in the video. I skimmed the pdf and there is a lot of information in there. I'd say probably yes.
Hello Scott, have you tested rebuilding a drive?
Nope
Are those bays hot swappable?
Not something I've tried but the spec sheet says yes. www.qnap.com/en-us/product/tr-004/specs/hardware
Where do i begin. First of all the cost of hard drive you mentioned vs a portable drive to part out. There is a huge difference in a drive that is made for nas as you showed the wd red and the cheaper portables. Nas drives are made to run all the time so they will last you far longer than a hard drive you butchered from a portable case. Looking at this video im wondering if you really saved money dealing with all those drives and whatever connection you used. Personally i have a qnap 4 drive nas and just purchased the tr004 as an expansion to that. My nas has run non stop for the past 4 or 5 years. I never turn it off. Never once had any problems. Im using wd red drives in it. The tr004 add on is also going to get red drives installed. The benefits of having a nas is huge comparing to your set up. With my nes i stream videos to 4 tv in house and 3 over the internet. They all can watch different video at the same time with no buffering. I do my video editing on a hefty built desktop and move them to the nes for storage and viewing.
To anyone watching this video, stop watching, get yourself a nas and live trouble free for years to come. Believe me, you will not be saving much money going this route. If you worry about cost, start with a 2 drive nas and add the tr004 as you need the space. But please dont listen to this guy.
Cool beans, do what works for you. My setup works fine and I've done it twice now. Clearly we have different use cases. I have no need for networked storage.