Making a Dodecahedron on a Manual Lathe
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- Опубликовано: 6 сен 2024
- In this video, Mike machines a dodecahedron using just a lathe - no milling machine required!
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For those who wish to reproduce this, I skipped over a few key details you will need to know. Firstly, you must decide on the size of the dodecahedron. Let's define this as the distance across flats (L). The length of your starting cylinder needs to be L. The diameter needs to be 1.236*L. When shaping, make sure you don't go all the way (leave some to face off later). When bringing the tool in to touch the cylinder edge prior to any facing off, set the dial to zero. Face-off 0.277*L to form the final face size. This maths is accurate to plus/minus 0.01 mm (for a typical die size). Good luck!
Is L the same as the edge length of the pentagons or the length from an apex to the opposite edge? Sorry for the questions, I need to work out how much I can hollow out.
@@danceswithaardvarks3284 No problem. You're right, my description is ambiguous. L is the distance from a face to the opposite face. Another way of thinking about it is the insphere diameter (i.e. the diameter of the sphere that is tangential to all the faces in the dodecahedron). If you would rather define the size based on edge length, then the ratio of L : edge length = 2.227.
Thanks @@chronovaengineering. I had reached that conclusion, but it is nice to get confirmation. It makes sense now.
Thanks Mike. I managed to make one on a wood lathe. Not quite symetrical, but I know where I went wrong so the process worked.
Do you think using a QCTP and manually adjusting the height of the tool to increase the size of the channels would be beneficial? I'm definitely having a go of this either way, got a friend who's been giving me hell for not attempting a D12 for a while and I want to show him up!
Can't believe we didn't get to see it roll
Probably because it always comes up as a 12...
Don't watch Inception, it's 3 hours of not seeing spinning top roll.
Yeah can you just make a quick short of that, I am left unfulfilled
There's 0 chance this is balanced.
@@tylermcnally8232 I'm sort of curious how balanced it is. it makes sense that the heaviest side would be the 1 and thus the 12 would be advantaged (12 is opposite 1) its its a small amount compared to a solid brass polygon and could be ovewhelmed by any imperfections in the distance between the faces. I'd love to have it rolled a few hundred tiems and get the results. :)
Didn't realize the lathe was a custom build. I'd love a video on the background of it and how it came to be. Great stuff
Beautiful. I loved how you solved the problem of making this. I bet it was fun to think through. Numbers looked great and I really like the rustic feel it give. I cannot imagine taking something so perfect and applying my “hand”work to it.
We noticed you also just uploaded a video at the same time. Just watched it ourselves - thoroughly enjoyable and thanks for checking out our channel!
@@chronovaengineeringbro who is we? 😭
I was going to say that this feels a little cheeky with regards to "on a lathe", but I think all the same workholding problems would apply equally to any other machine process. Very clever.
Absolutely beautifull ❤❤❤You my Friend seem to be a master of machining , because of people like You I Fell in Love with the trade ,please keep up the trade an try to teach some Younger people
that die is great. the precise and sharp dodecahedron contrasts well with the hand engraved numerals for an awesome effect. well done!
Beautifully done. The only thing I would have changed is to oxidize the engraved numbers, to provide just a bit of contrast via patina (rather than wax). Not sure it would be much different in the end, but in my mind it keeps the rustic, almost steampunk, theme.
That's merely taste though--your method and workmanship is outstanding!
This is strange, you posted this and ten mins later another channel I watch posted a dice making video also.
Beautiful workmanship as always and thanks for sharing.
Ah another Hedron Rockworks fan. 😊
I noticed that Hedron Rockworks also posted as well. Thought it was some kind of collaboration.
@@lawrencemanning Reporting in!
I am indeed 😊
Nice work! I miss your videos so much
Apologies for taking a while to upload this one. We've been focusing on the espresso machines recently, but hopefully we will get back to more regular uploads shortly! Thanks for watching!
You could mount the part in the cross slide then put the milling bit into the chuck, it can be a good work around
That is what I thought, too.
But maybe he thinks that is too much like laying your milling machine on its back and calling it a lathe.
tres beau travail !!!merci du partage !!!
Nice! Love the calmth of your voice
Ingenious construction method.
I can only say I have seen a brain at work. Well done.
Astounding work. I would be curious to see a test of the die's fairness to get an estimate of it's true precision.
A test would simply be a very refined precise tape measure. A laser measure
What a brilliant result. There is something about shiny brass too.
Steve.
Oh my god as a machinist/programmer, I’ve worked with lathe and mill, manual, fanuc, haas you name it…when the video got to you having that tiny grinder and making your own tool…GahhDamn man….🤙🏼🙌🏼🙌🏼🙌🏼👏🏼
The lathe is a simple machine... attatches a cnc rotary indexer.
Love the idea. It really shows what can be done with some ingenuity!
I love to watch Clickspring videos and I love to watch
his European opponent Chronova Engeneering.
What a nice video. My compliments for this. Great skills
Thanks for the video, helps a lot
Interesting, thank you for sharing. Funny how a lathe can be used as essentially a gem grinders lap in reverse. With the material spinning and the abrasive stationary.
I love it. I'd use roman numerals, but that's just my preference. It's superb.
A bunch of years ago I made a pair of Ti d20's for someone on manual machines. It took me a long time to figure it out.
6:50 well, one method would be to machine a piece of stock such that a long feature would fit inside your tool holder, and use the chuck to hold a mill. Angling the tool holder would provide most of the faces, rotating the stock to precise angles using angled blocks off the face of the ways. I've never done such a thing to obtain a complex shape, but i regularly swap my lathe "order" whenever my mill is occupied.
If I follow you correctly this is exactly what I would do, put the cutting tool in the lathe spindle and use the tool holder and compound slide to do most of the work. I've actually thought about making a collect block set that registers in my tool holder so that repeated rotational features in that other axis can be quickly set up - same concept as a collet block as used in a mill vice, just with a more * or + shape as the tool holder needs a protrusion to grab. Though I also have a little vertical sliding 'mill table' attachment that goes on my clockwork lathes slide - so for small enough stuff it just becomes a mill with a really really big Z in comparison to the rather small x-y travel.
A cool trick is to mount the work piece to the tool post and chuck up an end mill into the spindle. You can do simple milling operations this way.
That's super cool, I hope whoever winds up with it appreciates it. Thanks for sharing.
You are a master! Much respect!
DEF agree with the imperfections. Makes it look hand wrought. Which in fact it was
Captivating processes!! I thoroughly enjoyed this video.
Incredible work, you are a genius.
I love dice so much!
I absolutely love your lathe. I want one so bad. I wish I had the space and pockets to allow for it. 5 years of manual/cnc machinist going to waste. I'd LOVE to make custom 3D printer parts on one... like better idler pulleys, crowned pulleys, and random bling. Let alone be able to use both of these to actually create the inventions I come up with.
12:42
Damn he even rubs the paste in a consistent manner 😂
A machinist through and through
That is pretty amazing. Very impressive work and a great explanation to how you made it
Lovely project definitely saving this one.
I've knew you can make one on a lathe, never actually seen it done. Neat!
Incredible work!! Extremely well done. 🎉💪
you could mount the blank on your cross-slide and put the endmill in your chuck. It's backwards, but now you can mill with your lathe
Top tier problem solving.
Lovely job
6:35 i say it still counts, youre just now using a manual lathe with live tooling
never thought about doing stuff with super glue on a lathe.... learned something new again
As a person who started playing D&D back in the 70’s, and had to use paper chits before I had dice, I really appreciate this!
Do you play?
Incredible work as always 👍👍
Well, with a CNC indexer, you could ALSO argue it is no longer "just a lathe". Normal lathes don't index their spindles, they spin them...
You could do this in three or four lathe operations with polyoganal turning. There's a Russian feller that has a really cool home made setup for polygonal turning using power off his lathes threading gearbox
If a cross slide mill, an attachment, can be considered a separate machine, then could one argue that your digital indexing is also an additional machine, as it's under the same parameters of adding an additional motor that is not the lathe's primary drive motor, as that's all the cross slide mill is actually adding to the ecosystem? This also gets into the conversation of where a true lathe-mill combi-machine sits, the kind where the lathe's cross slide acts as the mill's table, it's technically one machine, yet combines two machines into that one ecosystem; or similarly, where does a mill with a modifyable head to become both a horizontal and vertical mill sit, it's also two machines but in one cohesive platform, or what about adding a powered fourth axis to a mill, etc.
The way I see it, if the base machine can have it as an addition or attachment, then it's one machine. This is the primary reason why lathe-mills exist, because it's one machine that does the bulk of the work of two otherwise separate machines, as this method of a combi-machine saves a significant amount of space. Think of it this way, if you only have _one_ table/cross slide between multiple cutters, parts holders, and other attachments, then it's _one_ machine because you're only working with _one_ solid platform that has everything else attached to it. Sure, having every attachment and spindle possible might make this one machine a bit larger than the basis it's based on, but at the same time it's still smaller than two individual machines, because the common components (i.e. the linear slides for the table or cross slide, plus the frame it's mounted on) are the same between each spindle, just at a different orientation to the spindles (i.e., a lathe is Xr, a vertical mill is Yr, and a horizontal mill is Zr, all with a common table of Xl-Zl planar movement, along with various attachments for additional axial freedoms), while all being _one_ machine itself. If the part doesn't move from discrete machine A to discrete machine B, i.e. the part finishes with the machine it started on, then it's _one_ machine.
This works because you cannot argue that a machine can't be expanded upon via additions and accessories. If that were the case, everything would be a machine, an index table on a mill's table would be a machine, any tailstock accessories on a lathe would be a machine, the lathe's own cross slide platform would be a machine, a fourth axis attachment would be a machine, etc. Yet they're not individual machines, because they're considered additions, attachments, and accessories. And this is how it works for a combi-machine, you take a lathe, you adapt the cross slide itself to hold a part, and you add a vertical spindle over a decent position for the cross slide to act like a mill table. The powered cutter used in this video is essentially a variation of this, where the lathe's chuck acts as the parts holding while the mill head is positionable in respect to the static part. The same way an attachment to drill perpendicular holes, in respect to the lathe spindle's axis, along the length of the part would also be an attachment. There's so many ways to look at this non-issue where all of them come out to be that additions to a base platform results in a singular machine.
And if you want to argue the opposite, the dodecahedron couldn't be formed on a lathe. Why? Because the operation of forming the initial faces on an angle would be a shaping operation, of which a lathe is not a shaper, even if it's used as such. You're using one platform for two entirely different uses that operate in entirely different ways, and using two different portions of the machine in otherwise improper ways to achieve this; i.e. you've turned the lathe into a shaper, two different machines. And this is where this argument is debunked, becuase you're still using the same platform, you're still using the same core components, and the workpiece itself hasn't left the singular machine. Therefore, adding attachments to a lathe, such as turning a lathe into a lathe-mill combi-machine, results in a singular machine; and thus, the argument of one base platform equating to one machine, reguardless of attachments, becomes definitive.
Someone could create a machine that has every possible spindle axis, spindle movement, parts holding axis, parts holding movement, with additional accessories with the same degrees of freedom, and as long as it's on one base platform, it'd be _one_ machine. How large or small that machine is, or how complex, etc., is a different argument wholly unrelated to this one.
You, sir, are a magician😊
Magnificent work! Thank You for Sharing!!!
beauty is in the hands of the machinist.
Using wax to ink the numbers is like using a crayon in the old D&D boxed sets. Old school. I like it.
I love dodecahedrons ❤😂
Good job!!!
I would love to see the carving be inlayed with silver instead of being empty. Looks sick, and is more balanced
That's freaking cool... what would you charge to make a full set?
Just lovely.
"Clickspring" without the aussie accent ! Brilliant. I never seem to have much luck with superglue chucks, maybe my technique is off par.
Hola gracias por compartir, por mostrar cada detalle y los distintos dispositivos, con que cuentas , saludos
this is great! can you expand upon the statement "01 tool steel is actually harder then HSS" ?
Amazing! I love all of your content. So good for us engineers who are also hands on. :)
Id love to see this actually rolled a fair few times, as otheres said its probably not balanced. Still really cool though
11:50 a spritz of propyl alcohol helps a lot, mixed with WD-40 it improves surface quality a lot.
Very pretty... are you going to make a full set?
felt like a bit of a shame that we didn't get to see more B-roll of the finished Die, or a nice roll onto a wooden table with a sturdy tablecloth, but incredible project either way
Incredible, I could watch you for hours. You deserve many more subscribers. In fact, if you don't have a few hundred K subs soon I'll be very surprised.
I would love to see a video about the lathe.
what about trying to make holes in dodecahedron to make more inside like turners cube. it sounds like great idea :D
Fascinating process and I am impressed with the results! I would love to see you make a icosahedron next. Twenty facets in a small size would be a great challenge for your skill and craftsmanship as well as your intuitive creative process! Regardless, I am definitely subscribing to see what you come up with next!
But why make an icosahedron ??
Very extreme oversight that you didn't actually use the creation at the end of the video
Pure genius 👌
Very nice work
have you checked the dies randomability? how often it might hit a certain number over another due to weight differences between faces.
A laser measure could precisely account for all spaces of each face. The metal is balanced from the very clean melting it went through to rid impurities that could cause imbalance.
Well done!
To answer your question about other methods, somewhere on youtube there is a chap who does a similar thing using a relieving attachment.
What was your spindle speed?
Not to be a hairsplitter (;). But since you removed different amounts of material from each face,, is it still properly random?
I thought i had exhausted cool machining/making channels, but a shoutout from Adam Savage brought me here, only to find artisan makes here too. Very cool.
Nice die. Sub from me.
was that a piece of lignum vitae that you used for separation?
WOW! 👍❤
a beautiful paper weight but you'll need to balance it before using it as a die.
beautiful work! Did you roll it 1,000 times recording which number came up to see if it was fair?
Isn't the missing material for lettering significantly different on each side for it to land evently? Can this even be called a functional dice?
Very cool machining! Did you make your own custom collet for the D-bit grinder with an ER nose & remaining taper/dimension features to match the original (presumably Deckel/U-style) collet? Or has the work head been modified & its a dedicated ER spindle tube? What ER size is it? I noticed in your Quorn drill sharpening video a similar ER holding fixture.
What exactly is the purpose of the annular relief grooves turned on the face of CA glue fixture? Initially I thought a place for glue to overflow & make the gap joint thinner but now I'm wondering if its related to allowing air to properly cure? My (non-grooved) CA glue fixtures seem to cure somewhat unreliably even with accelerator, maybe that's why?
That HSS looked like it had large grain growth
I didn't get any of this but it's Fun to watch
A rhombic dodecahedron can be machined very easily out of standard hex stock.
I notice you ground your HSS bit with what appears to be a diamond based wheel as opposed to the typical AO or similar aggregate type wheel? If so, I've heard conflicting opinions about that practice (that it can load or dullen the wheel prematurely). Can you comment on your findings? Do you have to dress it more often for example?
Could have been a CBN wheel.
Concern with grinding steels on diamond is the diamond's chemical affinity for iron. Once there's sufficient heat, the carbon (diamond) will diffuse into the steel thus eroding away diamonds quicker than necessary.
yay second. Love the video!
Hi! Awesome stuff! Do you have a description of your lathe somewhere? I spent hours researching "hobby lathes" and I came to the conclusion I don't need a general lathe. I need a watchmaker's lathe. Or even just a stiffer wood turning lathe with a 4 jaw independent chuck.
Did not know it was okay to do an interrupted cut on a superglue arbor like that.
I've been trying to figure out how to make a D20 on a lathe as an apprentice machinist project. You think that's possible?
what was the point of the tape in the beginning??
I Want Mine Full Set
Loved the minecraft music
Great video thanks. It's inspired me to try making a 12 sided dice box in wood, using your method, but I am unclear about one thing: at around 9 minutes 50 seconds you mention removing enough material to make the face the correct size, but how is the correct size calculated?
Great question. I added a pinned comment explaining all the details you need to know. Good luck with your project!
Thanks
Не видео , а просто ГИМН МАСТЕРСТВУ какой - то !
....he didn't roll it ..... oh damn the frustration.
Wow ! You really have a knack for over complicating simple procedures.I have worked as a toolmaker for over 30 years and can honestly say this is the equivalent of writing a lengthy CNC program to drill a single hole. Have you never been taught how to grind cutting tools by hand !
Anyway, there is no "r" in "sawing", what is "sawring" !!
It's called intrusive r. Pretty common in English accents that don't always pronounce the letter r.
The thing is, I learned a lot, and I could probably now make some things if I were stuck in Alaska with limited tools...
"oh no, British people exist"
This is less educational more asmr
Yes very common tools that every body has at home 😂
I believe on the real, ancient dodacohedrons, the spaces in them- there were placed ivory or bronze carved pieces that fit in them of numbers or symbols. Of different languages and characters. For ritual games that developed across borders (as these have been found many places-regions) perhaps they were rolled down hills; like dice. Or to act like predicting outcomes of personal pursuits. This may be why they are found in tombs-of those felylt themselves or the cohedron worthy of their eternal place with them in death. But, not even one of these (made for those spaces in the dedacohedrons) has been found.. or one has but puzzle piece not fit (discovered) yet.. could one of these carved items be on a shelf somewhere ??
Be of ivory, bronze, gold or each space had to have one of each material. ?