Can somebody explain why shin needs changes? I see nothing wrong with his moveset. Yes the parry punishes are higher than the shittier characters like valk but its still nothing compared to Lb. Also why do people complain about GB dealing 40 damage? IDK why people complain about his ranged GB. I mean it just gb's you out of attack recovery frames. Same as every other grab like stampede charge or longarm. You cannot get guardbroken while in revenge and attacking
Salamander - Andrzej Half his moveset is trash, ranged GB guarantees too much damage, his kick is unpunishable, his offense is clunky, he has an autodelfect for some reason, 40 damage GB is too much, light spam is incentivised and he sucks when he’s getting ganked Still a good character, but he needs a rework to fix his problems
@@odiihinia my personal problem with Shinobi is his playstyle, which why I and many other don't just hope for a rework but full on redesign. "You cannot get guardbroken while in revenge and attacking." Now this is blatantly false. In between your combo shinobi's ranged gb can and will grab you, so with revenge. There are some moves that are too fast for even his ranged GB to grab, but for the most part he can grab you mid combo while in revenge.
Salamander - Andrzej People want him changed for a couple of different reasons, but I’ll tell you why *I* want Shinobi changed. With the way Shinobi currently plays, he’s one of the worst offenders of safe and strong turtle character. Assuming a every Shinobi is decent, he’s a very in-and-out character who can engage on his own terms and get out relatively safe. Shinobi is one of the few characters next to Nobushi, Aramusha and Cent who will just sit there and stare at you. With Shinobi, he can do it from a distance and be pretty safe while doing it. They’ll just get a lead in health and sit super far away to turtle up, which can make things super difficult. So, basically Shinobi can do some extreme turtling and be safe. This is all from my experience, Im pretty sure it’s not just some one tine thing either cause when I run into Shinobis, they all pretty much do same exact thing. He’s what the game is trying to move away from.
I was looking for something to watch, low and behold Freeze comes to the rescue. I dont even play the game anymore, I just come here to listen to your voice go over the updates.
Freeze, knowing that as soon as he makes a video on a character it will get reworked, does it anyway in order to bait Ubi into fixing one of the most messy characters. 1300 iq play
7:34 yes u can do that (also u smokeless dash with that as u see) but u can dodge back with the secend dodge by directing it that way the only reasen he rolled with that was becouse his ferst was a back dodge (from that u cant dash again) so to summe it up: u can dodge any direction u want with direction Input, as Long ur ferst dodge is not back
Shinobi is someone I’d like to be reworked asap, to me, they’re one of the worse offenders of strong, turtle characters. Though, I think Nobushi and someone else (maybe Warlord) are next for reworks.
@@dawidwojacki5049 That, or they could just take what she has, build on that with tweaks and adjustments. This doesnt really apply to only PK though, they could do this with almost everyone, with a few exceptions like Warden, Zerk, Conq, Raider, those kinds of characters.
Valkyrie, a strong woman with a pointy spear, parries a light, gets a petty heavy damage of 24 or a bit more Shinobi, a 1.60. M tall constantly annoying fucking bug, gets more than 40 damage...
R.I.P xxxtentacion his lights has to be one of the most parry bait light there is and he has no guarantee damage except for a light and even in a gank everything is blockable and or avoidable
@@djnation7934 And his only opener which is the kick is really easy to dodge and the opponent has tk be really dumb to not see a gb coming if u dodge forward and dont kick
Actually, you said wall splat was 40, but it came out as 33. I think the armor wake up gave damage reduction to the confirmed light, so actually less on wall splat than on GB. His revenge punish is extremely high, but it's also extremely circumstantial, with how inconsistent revenge is and how rare it is for anyone to actually attack you while you have revenge, the chances of getting that punish on competent players are slim to none. He also has one of the lowest OOS punishes in the game if not the lowest, contrasted against raider who can get up to 90 vs shins 40-46, it's usually better just to take the quick 40 anyways off a GB. I think his circumstantial revenge punish is okay in the context of his low OOS punish. This character has a ton of extreme trade offs and this is no exception. I agree that his revenge punish should be nerfed, but not without a higher OOS punish to compensate. If you parry someone in revenge or OOS, you cannot do the light riposte without canceling the fall down animation of the opponent, vs LB who gets the delayed riposte and/or 2 heavies and a mix-up, netting both more confirmed and potential damage. I don't see any reason why Shinobi cannot also get 2 heavies on an OOS punish as well as maybe a light riposte on top similar to LB. It's pretty standard for most characters to get 2 heavies or around 65 damage on an OOS punish and this is where Shinobi has sub par damage, which is unacceptable for his role as a damage dealer. It's only if the competitive community recognizes weaknesses like this and was reasonable about what buffs Shinobi needs to justify any nerfs, that'd I'd be okay with any of nerfs suggested. I would agree with damage nerfs if it was in the context of global damage nerfs, but that's not always made clear when talking about damage nerfs for Shinobi specifically, which in comparison aren't really that much higher than some other characters, in fact they don't do enough proportionally. JJ 28dmg heavy parry, nobu 26 heavy parry, nobu is pretty much in line with all of shin's damage values except having a better OOS punish, other than that they vary by about 2 damage. His option selects also require reads and I wouldn't say that they are OP or warrant any nerfs. With the slightest latency the ranged GB heavy parry has to be done on read and still can't be done for soft feinted heavies. Which if baited and countered is a max punish. And any other option select with exception to zone is countered by GB. If anything, back-walking out of range is the only thing that is too strong when it comes to his fundamental defense. Everything else seems circumstantially fine and potentially high risk. It's input heavy, has high trade offs and is difficult to perform, unlike other broken defenses in the game such as conq or nobu's. Even HL's defense is much better than Shinobi's when you factor out walking and dodging out of GB range. If anything he needs an inside game and to have dodge attacks that are faster and safer from GB, but punishable by GB on recovery (kick) and having back-flip startup GB vulnerable to allow for a buffered GB punish after dodge a kick. But kicks need to be able to be chained from a single dodge, and not a double dodge, which is currently 1200ms at its fastest from neutral, they need to be 600-700ms from neutral like every other bash or dodge attack, but just allow double dodge to mix up timings and punish pre-dodging. Just flat out nerfing range GB, back walking, and his revenge punish would make him a gank or die hero that can't keep his head above water. He can only gank, run and stall. He can't reliably 1v1 or 1vX in the way the game was meant to be played. I just want the buffs he needs to become more supported by the community and spread awareness. Because he does need a lot of big buffs in a lot of areas, more so than he needs nerfs. His few strengths completely skew what he needs. And I'm pretty tired of the community stigma towards this character. We didn't completely belittle and shame Raider pre-rework when he had Stampede charge and dodge GB defense and completey down play any buffs the hero needed, no he was still supported by the community and more people called for Raider buffs than nerfs. Shinobi is almost in the same spot raider was in pre-rework. Stupid defense, no offense, and stupid ganking, no 1v1 potential.
Freeze is the best For Honor youtuber. The amount of info covered not only makes you a far better player but gives a deep appreciation for the game. While it's true this game has a long way to go to cleaning up the mechanics, the potential is so clear and Freeze is doing his part to achieve that reality. GG Freeze
So fun fact when shino is in revenge he can hold his heavy charge heavy to get revenge HA so he can just sit there in HA the whole time if he wanted to, also shino backflip can actually cancel out other deflects leaving them open to punish
I know you already said it but I just want to say it again just to highlight how spaghetti this character is. He has both a bash that can knock down someone in revenge AND moves that are unsafe on block. Shinobi's whole existence is a mess.
Centurion rework I think if centurion ever had a rework not much of his basic kit should change, as a centurion main I like the way he works so much that I wouldn’t want it to change, even if it’s bad in top tier, but I wouldn’t mind them adding something to the move set. I was thinking about it and then it just came to me, something unique and very cool in my opinion, so since centurion lacks and he is mix up intensive and a melee-specialist, I thought we should keep everything he has in his kit but add a deflect whilst keeping his guard static, this deflect won’t inflict any damage expect stamina damage, it would be a deflect into a grab that would in an animation charge a punch and punch the opponent back this will also allow you to land the jump heavy, and in the background perhaps we could hear a crowd cheering as he punches, this will then put centurion into a winners state, a bit like shamans blood trance, in this state all of centurions attacks will do double damage, his walking movement speed will be increased and his dodge will have less recovery time, all this should last about 10-15 seconds and I thought it could be cool if every other heavy attack you land for added affect the crowd could gasp and cheer or something... It’s just an idea it would need some tweaking probably but I think it could put centurion back on the map without making his lights faster and giving him an annoying 50/50.
Ok so I know this punish video is pretty old by now and I don't think anyone is going to see this... But I wasn't able to test shinobi's revenge deflect until now. Something I found is that if you do his kick into two ranged heavies you can get the follow-up front roll kick. Whether or not the ranged heavy lands is kind of up to chance but you'll get chip damage at the very least and you'll have the ability to continue your mix-up chain. If the ranged heavy DOES land, however: the damage is not much less than the sickle rain variant and you'll still be able to continue your chain. Either way your opponent will lose a lot of stamina and the pressure will be on.
I learned a long of things about Shinobi from both this and the "Why Shinobi is a mess" video. It helped me a lot not to just learn how to play Shinobi properly, but to play against a Shinobi as well. Thank you. :)
That depends on how far the cent was away. If he was close to the shinobi regular cutscene plays, if they have some distance cents attack hits during the stand up animation and shinobi can gb him.
By throwing you to a wall, by parrying a light, by an oos parry or if the enemy try to gb you at the same time you throw a heavy. Don't try defending shit like that, is like me saying Lawbringer shove on block was good for the game. No, its unhealthy for the game same with Hidden Stance, bonus dmg when bleeding, unpunishable bashes, 40 dmg from a gb, hyperarmor too early on attacks, etc.
Freeze idk if you saw my last comment about this but, Shugoki’s hug if you dodge it there is a large window of time to punish shugoki and I’d like to see you play around with this and see what kind of crazy punishes you can get off this
All they need to change on shinobi is the ability to hold someone down in sickle rain. (if a teammate hits the victim, they are released like with raider's grab) and the parry punish. Make it less damage. Shinobi is not hard to fight, just be patient, and pay attention. all of this "rework" that and "he's bullshit" this is ridiculous. You're complaining about shinobi having hyper armor? lets fix beserker first please. If anything, the first 12 heroes of the game deserve the most love, especially right now.
oh if it was just hyperarmor... it's a little surprising how many people here complain without even understanding what makes him broken. There's a reason I can fill an entire seperate video with the bullshit that is Shinobi
@@fkkfreeze I look forward to this video that you mention. I only said what I did because I don't ever have problems against shinobi. Maybe it's because I've played him a good bit? I've played almost everyone and the only ones that still really give me trouble today is JJ and raider. My solution to fighting a shinobi in a teamfight is to focus him first. As I have played as shinobi for 19 reps now. I can't count how many times I've been taken out first. It's a strat that works. But, everyone's skill, experience, and opinion is different after all. I look forward to see what you think is "bs" about shinobi.
@@fkkfreeze also, what would you change about shinobi? Be sure to remember that he should still be fun to play, and playable. He's currently one of the best picks against shugoki. Would you want to change that? Please comment on this in your next video
Hey Freeze, I dont know how much use it is for Centurion on PC but on console its decent tech. Ok, so after a full charged punch, if centurion delays the jump stab for maybe half a second he can skip the taunt animation that backs him up.(I unlock, run back half a sec, lock back on, right trigger). Its a tool I only use when I knock opponent outta stamina with the punch, as it is punishable by GB. In theory, doing this can keep the pressure on the opponent to regain their stamina; but centurions OOS pressure isn't something to cry about on console. I imagine its abysmal on PC . If anything its just cool to see cent fly twice as fast to stab the opponent.
unless they changed it, if you instantly input a gb after the revenge kick, the gb is confirmed, and with the revenge changes, it can help speed up a kill or otherwise confirm one due to them for whatever reason not being allowed to revenge out of part of the attack ( i think its before the first hit, but after the they are brought to their knees)
Honestly Enmu and I have discussed what shinobi needs (from pc top play perspective) We need a light heavy combo(when people are out of Stam or are constantly dashing they can parry your second light. Having a heavy after the light would fix that issue and provide a small mixup), a SLIGHTLY faster kick, the ability to feint the FIRST ranged heavy, and maybe even the ability to soft feint raw heavy into a double dash for mixups. We're glad the zone is now feint able, but really that's all we need. BTW if you catch Enmu's stream and mention my name... He'll know who I am to all the people thinking I'm talking out my ass lol. Stay Awes9me
The logic behind it if I had to guess was he is hitting you with 2 weapons and putting all his tiny weight behind it compared to being hit hard by a spear which is a stabbing weapon and the way she hits you with it is using the staff part of it
@@punkrockviking listen I'm not saying it makes sense but in terms of his health he kinda would be useless. Annnnd you would be fighting way more turtling shinobi's and the fight would take forever.
shinobi: practically insta kills with his damage valk: takes 20,000 hits to kill anyone black prior: does almost as much damage with a single light as some characters heavies ubi:
One question : charged heavy into dodge is a soft feint/ direct cancel, or you first cancel the charged heavy with the feint button, and than input the dodge?
Its a soft feint, you can dodge without manually cancelling the heavy. However, you can double dash into charge heavy then hard feint it into a normal gb to catch people trying to dodge your kick. Thts where hard feinting the charged heavy has its uses.
Alicaido he has the lowest health in the game but if a player is good with him and turtles i can guarantee you’re dead so that’s why shinobi is a high risk reward hero if you make more than 2 mistakes you’re dead shinobi is all mind games that’s why he’s so annoying
@@xxxilluminate5754 dunno where that came from the thing with shinobi is that he isn't risk reward, he has safe escapes that can only be countered by a few moves
Toxichydra67 He’s annoying because he’s absurdly overtuned and safe + has a plethora of bugs involving his ranged GB and his ability to disengage from every fight. Aids character
Wait so if you can get a parry with his ranged heavy can someone tell me if you can parry with Highlander’s offensive stance by doing the same thing and just realease the heavy?
yes, HL's OS parry is the best in the game. He can do what shino can, just better. You go into Offensive stance when trying to parry and INSTANTLY cancel it with the feint button. So you can block, CGB or dodge immediately after your parry attempt.
I was thinking about what they could fix on Shinobi, not just cause of the nerf but because I think it’s crazy this things have never been mentioned... 1. The range heavy has to keep the chain going when it’s just blocked. 2. Shinobi should be able to faint the first range heavy halfway through the animation like all other moves on all other characters. (Think how Shinobi faints the second range heavy) 3. There is no reason a Shinobi has to fall to the ground and take damage when his range GB gets countered. No other character takes damage cause of a counter GB. All this fixes mentioned in this post could be implemented by the devs without consuming much of their time as they don’t have to make any new animations or even touch the character much. If you’ve noticed other quick fixes comment them bellow.
It's shown in the infinite gank video. You GB for your berserker, the CGB guarantees the zone, and then you do whatever you want to the opponent during the 4 hits of the zone.
@@fkkfreeze I'm trying to find the video so I can send it to my friend but everytime I search for it I get berserker anti-ganks. Would really appreciate a link
Freeze my man. You forgot a few things. Deflect kick heavy isn’t guranteed on nobushi because she can buffer hiddenstance and the best oos parry punish is heavy heavy. Under certain circumstances.
Probably the revenge deflect since the only way to get it is if someone attacks you when you’re in revenge and you get the tricky timing right. All that lining up just doesn’t seem likely especially considering that ppl aren’t likely to attack you when you’re in revenge.
What up with the nuxi deflect btw anybody know, not all the time but every now and then it gets blocked and more often then you’d think, it’s like why waste my time getting 4 deflects in a 1v1 if 3 of them get blocked? I might aswelll take the light into mix ups on parry and on light deflects might aswell take the heavy init mix ups like Tf is the point of deflecting with nuxia
The likely hood of someone actually getting revenge and deflecting as a shinobi is highly unlikely, not saying it cant happen, but in most ganks shinobi is very limited as to what he can do, so deflecting is more than likely not gonna be an option used during revenge.
Shinobi is very easily punished, and it take a lot of skill to use him in the first place, he's not broken, he just gives out high rewards for using him properly.
Thank you. All this ranting about shinobi is just dumb. He was never a problem for all these seasons and now the community needs another character they can hate on. Its disgusting Shinobi is one of the best balanced heroes in the game right now
Exactly. I have a rep 16 Shinobi and overall 191 reps and I still can't use him properly. He has the shortest reflex guard and THE smallest HP pool of all the heroes. He is very hard to use.
Urûk Hunter Where exactly was this stated? Just curious cause I’d like to see it myself. From my understanding, the Original 12 got their reworks cause they’re old and needed the help to stay somewhat relevant. Now, almost all the Original 12 have been reworked.
Not to mention the punish for a ranga attack, its too much, the range heavie isnt even fast and safe or do a lot of damage , his bash his ver readable, worst lights in the game with aramusha, and highlander..., almost no chains of regular attacks, his backflip and roll doesnt evade attacks so it tracks the damage , in 1v1 is almost a joke and when he is ganked he is even worst
R u talking about when u deflect a Shaolin's top light and the little fk goes on Qi stance does a top light and it counters ur deflect? Omg it happens 2 me, they don't do it on purpose but it's still annoying cuz I was the 1 that reacted 2 the 400ms light -_-
@@ReggieTheCaracal Orochi can deflect aswell only if it's the last hit of his chain and a heavy since he can cancel the recovery with A dodge, it's annoying tho getting Punished 4 Deflecting makes no sense to me
I'm not well informed but this is how i see it. They want to change how kicks and "retreating" moves work (Nobushi hiddenstance, shinobi smoke dodge etc) So my guess is Nobushi should be getting "improvements" first as she is in the original cast and should be compensated if something was to change her (probably would be bad for her as they mentioned that moves should be punnishable) and as she is the last one from the original heroes they'd probably start with dlc heroes in order of release. Meaning s2 cent and shin. then glad and HL. we get the picture. as mentioned that'd be my guess and kinda logical? idk maybe i just want a nobushi rework...
@@Filet_Mignon22 that wasn't my point though was it? I was just listing up the characters that were released each season. They obviously don't have to rework each and every one of them. Shaman doesn't need one too so... also nobushi at minimum need adjusted moves. Like she still has 600ms attacks wich are (as we all know by now) only in the game to be parried lol. I'm not saying bushi needs a rework. But as mentioned make her attack speed line up with other heroes or hybrids to be specific and make her hidden-stance not consume a ton of stamina do 2e can use it more often than 3 times in a fight. I mean most heroes in the game with a special move can pretty much spam those by now. BP can go into his bulwark like 20 times before he runs out of stam. And i'll mention it again (seems like you completely disregarded that point). If they adjust all evasive moves she needs compensation for it. Otherwise she'll get smacked in the face hard. We don't need another shugoki incident
I think, that, sadly, shinobis mixup ups don't neccessarily are fun to play with. It either feels like getting parried or having two hits at the same time. Your goal seems to be, that you land two heavies, which is highly unlikely, unlesss you play against somebody that doesn't know how to parry at all. A thing i would wish for the shinobi-rework would be the ability to soft-feint a heavy into light, which is able to either run under the opponents attack, which would look similar to gladiators deflect, or have a higher guard. A Tackle seems useless and wasteful of stamina everytime imo. Secondly, shinobi should not be allowed to initiate with a ranged attack. A combo, where he kicks the opponent and then afterwards flings his sickle would be more fun. Or to have made a backflip and then land his sickles. Normal ranged attacks should not be as punishable and should just stagger/pull the shinobi towards the parrying enemy and shouldn't absoloutely lay him flat - a centurion will take advantage of this and you are done in two hits most of the time, when being ganked. Instead the ranged pull should be highly punishable, but a pulling animation would be nice, so you dont have to lay on your backs for eternity, while the enemy hits you. As last thought, i think they should keep this revenge-deflect-kick-mechanic, since this is a rare opportunity for shinobi to shine. Finally, I'd like to post this new moveset, that i would like for shinobi: Shadow-dancer: L->L (between 22 and 18dmg) Ghoul's Rage: R->L (between 36 and 31 dmg) *New Combo w/o Grab: R->R (between 50 and 44 dmg) *New Sickle Rain: R->GB(ranged and melee)+S->L+L+L (between 100 and 88 dmg, applies bleed (3xDot) for a total of 127 dmg) *New Combo (I'd like to call "Kamaitachi's Assault") : R-> GB+W/A/D-> R(r)->Spacebar->(Hold) Left (should work like shaolin LLL Combo) (A total of roundabout 90 damage, should stamina drain) Ranged R(r) after successfull kicks in any direction, or after backflip. R soft-feint into L has higher guard/runs under the opponents attack, when timed correctly. This only, if direction of SF and R are the same though. The deflect combos are fine in terms of fun, nontheless, I'd like to tune down the damage quite a bit. Light Damage from the sides: 11pHit; From top: 9pHit Right damage from the sides: 22pHit; from top: 25pHit Ranged Attacks: 17 dmg Chip dmg from bleed: 3pDot Questions? Additions? Let me know, even if Ubi will probably never see this.
A tip for dealing with backflipping Shinobies. If you dodge the kick, immediately unlock and sprint towards the shinobi. Either he'll heavy after his whiffed kick, which you can roll under and punish the recovery (once you do this the first time, he might expect it again and go for the light after heavy, but that's an easy parry). If he back flips, he'll mostly likely go for an attack. If it's a range heavy, same principle as before. If it's a range GB, simply roll under and you get a free GB. If he goes for nothing, now you have him on the defensive and he's wasted 1/3 or more of his stamina
A nice tip but complicated as you led yourself into another 50/50 also his heavies track partially if he delays it or decides to go for double light immediately after double dash and you roll one of the light will catch you and you cant parry it
@@Filet_Mignon22 You only unlock aftet a whiffed kick, not the double dash. And as you approach the shinobi, any attacks are easily rolled under. Worst case scenario, you get hit with a chain light
@@Filet_Mignon22 With the double (or potentially quad) dash, backflip and/or any attacks, you'll at least trade even, if not come out on top. And the more you do it, the more the shinobi will stop backflipping. Then normal GB after kick might work, or just parry a non chained attack. If anything, you put the shinobi into a mixup, as he has to do something to make his kick safe, all of which is reactable punishable by the player.
Imo shinobi doesnt need much rework. I think they should rework all other assasins and other heroes to match his versatility. I dont know if that would be a good option or not, but thats what i think SHOULD happen. I love playing shinobi bc it takes a fair amount of skill and reaction timing even though alot can be forgiving for him. Its fun and i like his complexity and the large amount of options he has for mix-ups. Thats why i feel that other assasins should have that same fast paced feel to them with the tools they need.
@@Hunter-zn5tb backflip is not a bs mechanic and can even be punished by some hereos. Even when you cant punish it just follow him. Dont dogde just dont leave him alone. When he is scared he will trow lights and backflip again so just parry him. Its easy and after a light parry the fight is already almost over
@@Hunter-zn5tb idk. Maybe. If other assassins have equally good mechanics, then they would balance better (in my theory). But of course they would have to tone down shinobi a bit. Its just a vague idea. I dont have any specific solutions bc im not that knowledgable when it comes to specific mechanics and all that stuff.
@@PressurePD the simpleton "just parry" I play people like RobinV and Oma Gosh on a regular basis and I'll tell you now it's harder to deal with passive shinobi that get 50 for a deflect, 40 from GB, and 24 from heavy parry. And the "some heroes can counter it" is terrible reasoning at best! That's to say BP is okay as long as you can react to his bash every time and not get button smashed.
@@hopoutattheafterparty6245 Ara and Valk don't need it. They only need a slight touch up and they'll be fine. Nobu is too defensive and needs changes, since the game is not meant to be defensive anymore. PK needs it second most, her pick rate is the lowest of the roster, her damage is minimal to the point where you have to work twice as hard as any given opponent, she needs a rework to make her actually halfway effective. And I said Cent, so.
So what your saying is everyone should be playing shinobi ??? And he doesnt super need to be reworked he is a unique character takes at least some skill more to play than most ....but the whole game takes skill
you forgot to include the infinite chain with two shinobi where the target gets pulled by a shinobi, does the sickle rain, then the other shinobi pulls (guaranteed btw) and does the same thing, rinse and repeat. Super cancerous.
People complaining about how Shinobi is some crazy turtle hero... the hell? Maybe in the right(Or wrong depending on how you see it) hands he is, but come on people be honest, how many shinobi's have you seen NOT literally disintegrate upon being attacked by more than one person(Or just run away for that matter)? I agree he needs changes, but hes more of a mess than Over/Underpowered, especially outside of pro play. Please don't do my boi dirty cause of a few bad eggs, I for one like to play him as honorably as possible.
I've decided to stop playing shinobi until they nerf the sickle rain cutscene. Ranged gb wouldn't be such an issue by itself if it just led to heavy light. Maybe with a slight damage nerf and possibility of early wakeup if interrupted by ally. I suggest allowing him to flicker ranged attacks as compensation, the same way shaman does. It's not like she has any less range, and gets punished much less on parries. The option select parries have to go though. And the revenge deflect.
A nerf? It's near impossible to pull off a double heavy in 1v1's, and his ranged gb gets him damaged on a punish for more than he'd get if it were successful. I'd get leaving raider because of his buff, but Shino is too good?
Shinobi does have a flicker but that's not the point you shouldnt be asking for a flicker in general that's what made this game so broken back then everyone flickered attacks
Thank you freeze very cool. Every night before I sleep I pray that this abysmally designed character gets gutted to a completely unuseable state. Also while we're at it kill nobu too.
People in this comment section are so delusional it makes me worry about this community. This video portrays shinobi as an unkillable beast with no counterplay while in reality his moves are easily reactable and easiky punishable. Ok i get that in 4v4s he is too strong with his ranged gb and sickle rain and it should be nerfed. BUT shinobi is a high risk high reward character because it is actually hard opening up someone in a 1v1 just to get a little bit of damage and making one mistake can easily lead to you dying since his HP is so low.
Shinobi and cent are the 2 that really need reworks because they both have awful kits cent relys on wall splats and his cutscene and shinobi heavily relys on turtleing. And ubi wants to remove that. I want his damaged balanced out but give him an actual kit so he can do more than dodge kick, heavy, roll, either another kick or sickle rain but you have characters that can snipe people a.k.a shaman with the same range but not even that bad of a punish but for some reason shinobi loses like half his stam and gets pulled onto the ground
Hey freeze, quick correction: His zone doesn't actually have super armor, but it ignores bashes. That means that the second and third swing of the zone can be punished by dodge attacks such as Orochi's or Kensei's, but not by Conqueror's. Again, Shinobi is a mess of a character and should be deleted.
@@danestambaugh255 oh so you tell me there is one single character who can punish wardens sb with one attack when timed correctly and its op?? Just play around it then Its a good thing to have attacks that counter eachother
Bruh come on guys a shinobi isn't a hard character to defeat , i agree that he does alot damage but he's a counter attacker he must need to have alot damage for a parrie and deflect
*UPDATED PUNISHES:* ruclips.net/video/V9XTVKLemMM/видео.html
freeze: "this character needs changes urgently, hopefully they work on him soon."
ubi: "no, I don't think I will."
Can somebody explain why shin needs changes? I see nothing wrong with his moveset. Yes the parry punishes are higher than the shittier characters like valk but its still nothing compared to Lb. Also why do people complain about GB dealing 40 damage? IDK why people complain about his ranged GB. I mean it just gb's you out of attack recovery frames. Same as every other grab like stampede charge or longarm. You cannot get guardbroken while in revenge and attacking
@@odiihinia but shinobi ranged gb can pull someone out of a revenge heavy Startup
Salamander - Andrzej Half his moveset is trash, ranged GB guarantees too much damage, his kick is unpunishable, his offense is clunky, he has an autodelfect for some reason, 40 damage GB is too much, light spam is incentivised and he sucks when he’s getting ganked
Still a good character, but he needs a rework to fix his problems
@@odiihinia my personal problem with Shinobi is his playstyle, which why I and many other don't just hope for a rework but full on redesign.
"You cannot get guardbroken while in revenge and attacking."
Now this is blatantly false. In between your combo shinobi's ranged gb can and will grab you, so with revenge. There are some moves that are too fast for even his ranged GB to grab, but for the most part he can grab you mid combo while in revenge.
Salamander - Andrzej People want him changed for a couple of different reasons, but I’ll tell you why *I* want Shinobi changed. With the way Shinobi currently plays, he’s one of the worst offenders of safe and strong turtle character. Assuming a every Shinobi is decent, he’s a very in-and-out character who can engage on his own terms and get out relatively safe. Shinobi is one of the few characters next to Nobushi, Aramusha and Cent who will just sit there and stare at you. With Shinobi, he can do it from a distance and be pretty safe while doing it. They’ll just get a lead in health and sit super far away to turtle up, which can make things super difficult. So, basically Shinobi can do some extreme turtling and be safe.
This is all from my experience, Im pretty sure it’s not just some one tine thing either cause when I run into Shinobis, they all pretty much do same exact thing. He’s what the game is trying to move away from.
Orochi: Dodgeable 50 dmg deflect
Shinobi: Hold my sake
at least it's not instant 50 damage lul
That's an option
I still think every deflect should be safe if you hit the attack
The window for shinobi to get a 50 dmg deflect punish is really small, you have to time perfectly and switch guard
@@sheikranl3949 its not that hard to do
Freeze: *publishes a punish guide*
Ubisoft: ^Hey, we should rework that^
Why do you think he did a shinobi punish attack?
Mr. Vago Maestro bitch fuck you YOU SAY SHINONI IS BAD?.? HE IS S++++ TIER AND BETTER THAN YOUR HERO MAIN YOU NOOB REP 1 PRO CONSOLE 10 PLAYER
KrannY you're joking right
@@scream228 yeah, he must be
Ungodly fetus yes I’m joking 😂
Of course the hero with gardening tools would have the most damage aswell.
Shinobi heavy parry punish: 29 dmg
Valk light parry punish: 25 dmg
Ubi, just what did the Valk mains do to deserve this
Valk's light parry punish is 24
@@4elovekFun Even worse
Cent it's 25 to 😭😭
@@wardenTKD But he at least has the chance for 60 dmg
Yeah, atleast you know that there is little to no reason to not go for her pseudo deflect. It does 35 damage or so, made of bleed and normal damage.
Wait, off a wall splat, you said you get heavy into light for 40 damage, but the light seemed to have damage reduction, only doing 3 damage (1:40).
The first one he did was ok, i think he delayed it a little too much this time
@@RandomBruh Well you're right I didn't see close enough I though the first one was 30+10 but it also was 30+3
I was looking for something to watch, low and behold Freeze comes to the rescue. I dont even play the game anymore, I just come here to listen to your voice go over the updates.
*Gets mentioned*
Me: *happiness noises*
The shinobi's arts were supposed to be a secret thing, Freeze!!
Freeze, knowing that as soon as he makes a video on a character it will get reworked, does it anyway in order to bait Ubi into fixing one of the most messy characters.
1300 iq play
1:02 Cries in Valk :(
Sobs in Cent :(
Laughs in Lawbringer :)
@@swanronson4591 Points and Laughs in Raider
@@milkmessiah5192 Guffaws and beyblades in Berserker
Even zerk chain heavies got nothing on raider
off a wallsplat, shinobi gets 33dmg due to damage reduction.
7:34 yes u can do that (also u smokeless dash with that as u see) but u can dodge back with the secend dodge by directing it that way
the only reasen he rolled with that was becouse his ferst was a back dodge (from that u cant dash again)
so to summe it up: u can dodge any direction u want with direction Input, as Long ur ferst dodge is not back
Correct
Oh the Shinobi punishes this should be simp-
*139 damage deflect punish*
Shinobi is someone I’d like to be reworked asap, to me, they’re one of the worse offenders of strong, turtle characters. Though, I think Nobushi and someone else (maybe Warlord) are next for reworks.
Pk needs rework.
@@dawidwojacki5049 That, or they could just take what she has, build on that with tweaks and adjustments. This doesnt really apply to only PK though, they could do this with almost everyone, with a few exceptions like Warden, Zerk, Conq, Raider, those kinds of characters.
Lets just ignore cent
Warlord probably won't get anything new for awhile as shown by pk
Valkyrie, a strong woman with a pointy spear, parries a light, gets a petty heavy damage of 24 or a bit more
Shinobi, a 1.60. M tall constantly annoying fucking bug, gets more than 40 damage...
Shinobis kick after deflect is probably registering as a throw to the Fight System, so it knocks down.
Why isn't Enmu offscreen PepeHands
Can ubi focus on improving cent and shinobi for next season. Please buff cent ubi.
Yeah, they could even theme it after the season they both came out in.
@@djnation7934 bro your joking right?
R.I.P xxxtentacion his lights has to be one of the most parry bait light there is and he has no guarantee damage except for a light and even in a gank everything is blockable and or avoidable
@@djnation7934 And his only opener which is the kick is really easy to dodge and the opponent has tk be really dumb to not see a gb coming if u dodge forward and dont kick
Actually, you said wall splat was 40, but it came out as 33. I think the armor wake up gave damage reduction to the confirmed light, so actually less on wall splat than on GB.
His revenge punish is extremely high, but it's also extremely circumstantial, with how inconsistent revenge is and how rare it is for anyone to actually attack you while you have revenge, the chances of getting that punish on competent players are slim to none. He also has one of the lowest OOS punishes in the game if not the lowest, contrasted against raider who can get up to 90 vs shins 40-46, it's usually better just to take the quick 40 anyways off a GB. I think his circumstantial revenge punish is okay in the context of his low OOS punish. This character has a ton of extreme trade offs and this is no exception.
I agree that his revenge punish should be nerfed, but not without a higher OOS punish to compensate. If you parry someone in revenge or OOS, you cannot do the light riposte without canceling the fall down animation of the opponent, vs LB who gets the delayed riposte and/or 2 heavies and a mix-up, netting both more confirmed and potential damage. I don't see any reason why Shinobi cannot also get 2 heavies on an OOS punish as well as maybe a light riposte on top similar to LB. It's pretty standard for most characters to get 2 heavies or around 65 damage on an OOS punish and this is where Shinobi has sub par damage, which is unacceptable for his role as a damage dealer. It's only if the competitive community recognizes weaknesses like this and was reasonable about what buffs Shinobi needs to justify any nerfs, that'd I'd be okay with any of nerfs suggested. I would agree with damage nerfs if it was in the context of global damage nerfs, but that's not always made clear when talking about damage nerfs for Shinobi specifically, which in comparison aren't really that much higher than some other characters, in fact they don't do enough proportionally. JJ 28dmg heavy parry, nobu 26 heavy parry, nobu is pretty much in line with all of shin's damage values except having a better OOS punish, other than that they vary by about 2 damage.
His option selects also require reads and I wouldn't say that they are OP or warrant any nerfs. With the slightest latency the ranged GB heavy parry has to be done on read and still can't be done for soft feinted heavies. Which if baited and countered is a max punish. And any other option select with exception to zone is countered by GB. If anything, back-walking out of range is the only thing that is too strong when it comes to his fundamental defense. Everything else seems circumstantially fine and potentially high risk. It's input heavy, has high trade offs and is difficult to perform, unlike other broken defenses in the game such as conq or nobu's. Even HL's defense is much better than Shinobi's when you factor out walking and dodging out of GB range. If anything he needs an inside game and to have dodge attacks that are faster and safer from GB, but punishable by GB on recovery (kick) and having back-flip startup GB vulnerable to allow for a buffered GB punish after dodge a kick. But kicks need to be able to be chained from a single dodge, and not a double dodge, which is currently 1200ms at its fastest from neutral, they need to be 600-700ms from neutral like every other bash or dodge attack, but just allow double dodge to mix up timings and punish pre-dodging.
Just flat out nerfing range GB, back walking, and his revenge punish would make him a gank or die hero that can't keep his head above water. He can only gank, run and stall. He can't reliably 1v1 or 1vX in the way the game was meant to be played. I just want the buffs he needs to become more supported by the community and spread awareness. Because he does need a lot of big buffs in a lot of areas, more so than he needs nerfs. His few strengths completely skew what he needs. And I'm pretty tired of the community stigma towards this character. We didn't completely belittle and shame Raider pre-rework when he had Stampede charge and dodge GB defense and completey down play any buffs the hero needed, no he was still supported by the community and more people called for Raider buffs than nerfs. Shinobi is almost in the same spot raider was in pre-rework. Stupid defense, no offense, and stupid ganking, no 1v1 potential.
Best comment Ive read all year.
Freeze is the best For Honor youtuber. The amount of info covered not only makes you a far better player but gives a deep appreciation for the game. While it's true this game has a long way to go to cleaning up the mechanics, the potential is so clear and Freeze is doing his part to achieve that reality. GG Freeze
thank you
So fun fact when shino is in revenge he can hold his heavy charge heavy to get revenge HA so he can just sit there in HA the whole time if he wanted to, also shino backflip can actually cancel out other deflects leaving them open to punish
*guardbreaks*
I know you already said it but I just want to say it again just to highlight how spaghetti this character is.
He has both a bash that can knock down someone in revenge AND moves that are unsafe on block. Shinobi's whole existence is a mess.
mongrelshadow14 like you
@@djnation7934 WOAH MEGA FUNNY HAHAHAHAHA
Centurion: Wait... y'all getting reworks?
Centurion rework
I think if centurion ever had a rework not much of his basic kit should change, as a centurion main I like the way he works so much that I wouldn’t want it to change, even if it’s bad in top tier, but I wouldn’t mind them adding something to the move set.
I was thinking about it and then it just came to me, something unique and very cool in my opinion, so since centurion lacks and he is mix up intensive and a melee-specialist, I thought we should keep everything he has in his kit but add a deflect whilst keeping his guard static, this deflect won’t inflict any damage expect stamina damage, it would be a deflect into a grab that would in an animation charge a punch and punch the opponent back this will also allow you to land the jump heavy, and in the background perhaps we could hear a crowd cheering as he punches, this will then put centurion into a winners state, a bit like shamans blood trance, in this state all of centurions attacks will do double damage, his walking movement speed will be increased and his dodge will have less recovery time, all this should last about 10-15 seconds and I thought it could be cool if every other heavy attack you land for added affect the crowd could gasp and cheer or something...
It’s just an idea it would need some tweaking probably but I think it could put centurion back on the map without making his lights faster and giving him an annoying 50/50.
Johnny Boii Yes had a rework, it’s since it he became so boring
Ok so I know this punish video is pretty old by now and I don't think anyone is going to see this... But I wasn't able to test shinobi's revenge deflect until now. Something I found is that if you do his kick into two ranged heavies you can get the follow-up front roll kick. Whether or not the ranged heavy lands is kind of up to chance but you'll get chip damage at the very least and you'll have the ability to continue your mix-up chain. If the ranged heavy DOES land, however: the damage is not much less than the sickle rain variant and you'll still be able to continue your chain. Either way your opponent will lose a lot of stamina and the pressure will be on.
I learned a long of things about Shinobi from both this and the "Why Shinobi is a mess" video. It helped me a lot not to just learn how to play Shinobi properly, but to play against a Shinobi as well. Thank you. :)
If centurion parries shinobis range heavy and performs cutscene afterwards,hes vulnerable to gb.
That depends on how far the cent was away. If he was close to the shinobi regular cutscene plays, if they have some distance cents attack hits during the stand up animation and shinobi can gb him.
This is also true if the Cent delays the leaping heavy as to not go OOS. If you hit during wakeup armor you are GB vulnerable.
All shinobi secrets have been revealed
Shinobi need both buffs and nerfs, he is shity but stupidly strong at the same time. Same with Aramusha and Nobushi.
Ara doesnt need any nerfs, he only needs buffs
@@theguildmaster3502 His dmg is overtuned, side heavy should do 30 dmg first one and 35 or 40 dmg the finisher.
@@SomeKnight How is he going to hit those heavies?
By throwing you to a wall, by parrying a light, by an oos parry or if the enemy try to gb you at the same time you throw a heavy. Don't try defending shit like that, is like me saying Lawbringer shove on block was good for the game. No, its unhealthy for the game same with Hidden Stance, bonus dmg when bleeding, unpunishable bashes, 40 dmg from a gb, hyperarmor too early on attacks, etc.
1:44 the wallsplat actually reduces the follow up light from the heavy. So you only get 33 damage for a heavy haha!
Freeze idk if you saw my last comment about this but, Shugoki’s hug if you dodge it there is a large window of time to punish shugoki and I’d like to see you play around with this and see what kind of crazy punishes you can get off this
You can get anything since the revoery is 2 secs. Pick your character strongest attack and have fun
@@lorenzolama6436 backwards light into zone on raider?
@@RaawHax now that'd be interesting
ye, it's in the works :)
@@RaawHax yes you do get a chained zone
Wait I didn't know how broken shinobi is now.
I have been guardbroken out of my backflips many times by hitokiris, but by no other character it feels like
Hito can't GB your backflip my guy. Kensei and Raider both have forward dodge GB and he's still out range for them. You must be side dodging
Austin Dickson i am 99% sure it is the backflip though, its really early in the backflip so that might have something to do with it
All they need to change on shinobi is the ability to hold someone down in sickle rain. (if a teammate hits the victim, they are released like with raider's grab) and the parry punish. Make it less damage. Shinobi is not hard to fight, just be patient, and pay attention. all of this "rework" that and "he's bullshit" this is ridiculous. You're complaining about shinobi having hyper armor? lets fix beserker first please. If anything, the first 12 heroes of the game deserve the most love, especially right now.
oh if it was just hyperarmor...
it's a little surprising how many people here complain without even understanding what makes him broken.
There's a reason I can fill an entire seperate video with the bullshit that is Shinobi
thank you for triggering my PTSD by mentioning berserker :)
i haven't played for about 8 months now, i just watch freeze's videos
@@fkkfreeze I look forward to this video that you mention. I only said what I did because I don't ever have problems against shinobi. Maybe it's because I've played him a good bit? I've played almost everyone and the only ones that still really give me trouble today is JJ and raider. My solution to fighting a shinobi in a teamfight is to focus him first. As I have played as shinobi for 19 reps now. I can't count how many times I've been taken out first. It's a strat that works. But, everyone's skill, experience, and opinion is different after all. I look forward to see what you think is "bs" about shinobi.
@@fkkfreeze also, what would you change about shinobi? Be sure to remember that he should still be fun to play, and playable. He's currently one of the best picks against shugoki. Would you want to change that? Please comment on this in your next video
9:14 does this also work with unblockables?
Baki Inreally don’t think so
Hey Freeze, I dont know how much use it is for Centurion on PC but on console its decent tech.
Ok, so after a full charged punch, if centurion delays the jump stab for maybe half a second he can skip the taunt animation that backs him up.(I unlock, run back half a sec, lock back on, right trigger).
Its a tool I only use when I knock opponent outta stamina with the punch, as it is punishable by GB. In theory, doing this can keep the pressure on the opponent to regain their stamina; but centurions OOS pressure isn't something to cry about on console. I imagine its abysmal on PC .
If anything its just cool to see cent fly twice as fast to stab the opponent.
unless they changed it, if you instantly input a gb after the revenge kick, the gb is confirmed, and with the revenge changes, it can help speed up a kill or otherwise confirm one due to them for whatever reason not being allowed to revenge out of part of the attack ( i think its before the first hit, but after the they are brought to their knees)
Honestly Enmu and I have discussed what shinobi needs (from pc top play perspective) We need a light heavy combo(when people are out of Stam or are constantly dashing they can parry your second light. Having a heavy after the light would fix that issue and provide a small mixup), a SLIGHTLY faster kick, the ability to feint the FIRST ranged heavy, and maybe even the ability to soft feint raw heavy into a double dash for mixups. We're glad the zone is now feint able, but really that's all we need. BTW if you catch Enmu's stream and mention my name... He'll know who I am to all the people thinking I'm talking out my ass lol. Stay Awes9me
The revenge kick knocking people over doesn't work for me, for some reason
It's just the deflect kick, not regular dash kicks
Why do hos heavies do so much more dmg than valk?!
The logic behind it if I had to guess was he is hitting you with 2 weapons and putting all his tiny weight behind it compared to being hit hard by a spear which is a stabbing weapon and the way she hits you with it is using the staff part of it
It's because of his paper thin health
Sure, his skinny arms poking you with two hooks would definitely generate more force than a spear being flung around by a freaking amazon woman...
@@punkrockviking listen I'm not saying it makes sense but in terms of his health he kinda would be useless. Annnnd you would be fighting way more turtling shinobi's and the fight would take forever.
His lights (24) do almost the same damage as valk (25)
The mad lad actually did it
shinobi: practically insta kills with his damage
valk: takes 20,000 hits to kill anyone
black prior: does almost as much damage with a single light as some characters heavies
ubi:
Pk's heavy is 20 and if you confirm bleed then you cant chain it so in chains the heavy does only 20! What do u say?
Are you actually that stupid? Which character does shinobj instakill
FlaminShadow imagine being so stupid you don't understand what a practically means and don't know what an obvious exaggeration is
0:59
how do you do that?
you press Light after the parry
@@fkkfreeze instantly? because i keep doing the double light
I hope that one day we get a capable dev team for this game that isn’t braindead
Am i a weeb for being a rep 40 shino?
One question : charged heavy into dodge is a soft feint/ direct cancel, or you first cancel the charged heavy with the feint button, and than input the dodge?
Its a soft feint, you can dodge without manually cancelling the heavy.
However, you can double dash into charge heavy then hard feint it into a normal gb to catch people trying to dodge your kick. Thts where hard feinting the charged heavy has its uses.
imagine taking away the only thing that made the character flashy without deflects, quad dash we miss you
Hey can u reupload the PK punish vid so ubi goes to fix her thx
Thanks for covering us non humans out there, really hard to find tips sometimes.
my most hated character
Alicaido he has the lowest health in the game but if a player is good with him and turtles i can guarantee you’re dead so that’s why shinobi is a high risk reward hero if you make more than 2 mistakes you’re dead shinobi is all mind games that’s why he’s so annoying
@@xxxilluminate5754 dunno where that came from
the thing with shinobi is that he isn't risk reward, he has safe escapes that can only be countered by a few moves
Toxichydra67 He’s annoying because he’s absurdly overtuned and safe + has a plethora of bugs involving his ranged GB and his ability to disengage from every fight. Aids character
@@alicaido6616 he has no offense and has punishable moves
@@EE-one-D every character has punishable moves
What is shaolins oos punishes?
Wait so if you can get a parry with his ranged heavy can someone tell me if you can parry with Highlander’s offensive stance by doing the same thing and just realease the heavy?
yes, HL's OS parry is the best in the game.
He can do what shino can, just better.
You go into Offensive stance when trying to parry and INSTANTLY cancel it with the feint button. So you can block, CGB or dodge immediately after your parry attempt.
Shinobis oos punish is 2 unlocked heavys and a light.
Wait you said on wallsplat the damage is still 40 but the numbers show 33. It seems the guaranteed light is being damage reduced
shinobi on light parties can get a ranged gb punish if ya go into it
no you cant... that has been patched out in S5
freeze oh, i must’ve gotten lucky in the 1v1 lol. thought it still worked
@@itsgoofyytaee1110 that's why training mode exists
King Letholdus ya don’t need to train when you’re diamond rank 5
@@itsgoofyytaee1110 yes you do. Also that's not what I meant
non sequitur, but since when was BP's neutral bash GB and dodge attack vulnerable
I was thinking about what they could fix on Shinobi, not just cause of the nerf but because I think it’s crazy this things have never been mentioned...
1. The range heavy has to keep the chain going when it’s just blocked.
2. Shinobi should be able to faint the first range heavy halfway through the animation like all other moves on all other characters. (Think how Shinobi faints the second range heavy)
3. There is no reason a Shinobi has to fall to the ground and take damage when his range GB gets countered. No other character takes damage cause of a counter GB.
All this fixes mentioned in this post could be implemented by the devs without consuming much of their time as they don’t have to make any new animations or even touch the character much.
If you’ve noticed other quick fixes comment them bellow.
Can someone link me that berserk zone attack gank tech, I can't find it anywhere.
It's shown in the infinite gank video.
You GB for your berserker, the CGB guarantees the zone, and then you do whatever you want to the opponent during the 4 hits of the zone.
@@fkkfreeze I'm trying to find the video so I can send it to my friend but everytime I search for it I get berserker anti-ganks. Would really appreciate a link
ruclips.net/video/Sga96hT1vlM/видео.html
timestamped
Freeze my man. You forgot a few things. Deflect kick heavy isn’t guranteed on nobushi because she can buffer hiddenstance and the best oos parry punish is heavy heavy. Under certain circumstances.
you cant land heavy heavy
the unlock got fixed
The second light after his slide can be deflected.
What's harder,cents 90 dmg OOS trow or shinobi's revenge deflect?
Probably the revenge deflect since the only way to get it is if someone attacks you when you’re in revenge and you get the tricky timing right. All that lining up just doesn’t seem likely especially considering that ppl aren’t likely to attack you when you’re in revenge.
@@FieryDarkrai well let me remake the question
What up with the nuxi deflect btw anybody know, not all the time but every now and then it gets blocked and more often then you’d think, it’s like why waste my time getting 4 deflects in a 1v1 if 3 of them get blocked? I might aswelll take the light into mix ups on parry and on light deflects might aswell take the heavy init mix ups like Tf is the point of deflecting with nuxia
4:43 ... My disdain for Shinobi only grows as the seasons go by.
The likely hood of someone actually getting revenge and deflecting as a shinobi is highly unlikely, not saying it cant happen, but in most ganks shinobi is very limited as to what he can do, so deflecting is more than likely not gonna be an option used during revenge.
Its not op at all. When you gank a shinobi he is dead.
When you cant do that then you are the problem
Shinobi is very easily punished, and it take a lot of skill to use him in the first place, he's not broken, he just gives out high rewards for using him properly.
Thank you.
All this ranting about shinobi is just dumb. He was never a problem for all these seasons and now the community needs another character they can hate on.
Its disgusting
Shinobi is one of the best balanced heroes in the game right now
@@PressurePD yup, and they're trying to nerf his backflip, and any shinobi who fights up close is dead
Exactly. I have a rep 16 Shinobi and overall 191 reps and I still can't use him properly. He has the shortest reflex guard and THE smallest HP pool of all the heroes. He is very hard to use.
@@Maximum_Watts gladiator reflex is shortest.
Shinobi is really safe, not easily punished
I cant understand gb range, sometimes you cant gb enemy what near you, sometimes enemy just magnet to you from 3 meters. away
You mean 10
Unfortunately, no other character is getting reworked. It was only supposed to be the original 12
The next season glad will be updated and cent will be reworked.
Urûk Hunter Where exactly was this stated? Just curious cause I’d like to see it myself. From my understanding, the Original 12 got their reworks cause they’re old and needed the help to stay somewhat relevant. Now, almost all the Original 12 have been reworked.
@@blackblack1167 pk was just updated not reworked also nobu didnt get one
MR ARYAN44 Come again?
Not to mention the punish for a ranga attack, its too much, the range heavie isnt even fast and safe or do a lot of damage , his bash his ver readable, worst lights in the game with aramusha, and highlander..., almost no chains of regular attacks, his backflip and roll doesnt evade attacks so it tracks the damage , in 1v1 is almost a joke and when he is ganked he is even worst
TFW shinobi ges gurenteed 40/50 dmg deflect, but you (nuxia) can be punished for deflecting other attack. Feels bad man
EzioMercenary Nuxia can get a 71 deflect and the window is really easy.
@@dwight_boi cool and? It doesnt justify the fact that (at its current state) pretty risky move that that is suppose to be a punish, can be punished.
R u talking about when u deflect a Shaolin's top light and the little fk goes on Qi stance does a top light and it counters ur deflect? Omg it happens 2 me, they don't do it on purpose but it's still annoying cuz I was the 1 that reacted 2 the 400ms light -_-
@@haruhas7604 mainly.
Its just the fact that nuxia deflect can be punished.
Parried by Shinobi.
Deflected by Shinobi, Shaolin, zerk, PK, shaman...
@@ReggieTheCaracal Orochi can deflect aswell only if it's the last hit of his chain and a heavy since he can cancel the recovery with A dodge, it's annoying tho getting Punished 4 Deflecting makes no sense to me
freeze you should discuss ranked
Sickle rain is soooo strong in 4s, it’s crazy
I'm not well informed but this is how i see it. They want to change how kicks and "retreating" moves work (Nobushi hiddenstance, shinobi smoke dodge etc) So my guess is Nobushi should be getting "improvements" first as she is in the original cast and should be compensated if something was to change her (probably would be bad for her as they mentioned that moves should be punnishable) and as she is the last one from the original heroes they'd probably start with dlc heroes in order of release. Meaning s2 cent and shin. then glad and HL. we get the picture. as mentioned that'd be my guess and kinda logical? idk maybe i just want a nobushi rework...
Highlander already got a rework my guy ... also nobushi did get a change awhile ago it just went under the radar because it wasnt a huge rework
@@Filet_Mignon22 that wasn't my point though was it? I was just listing up the characters that were released each season. They obviously don't have to rework each and every one of them. Shaman doesn't need one too so... also nobushi at minimum need adjusted moves. Like she still has 600ms attacks wich are (as we all know by now) only in the game to be parried lol. I'm not saying bushi needs a rework. But as mentioned make her attack speed line up with other heroes or hybrids to be specific and make her hidden-stance not consume a ton of stamina do 2e can use it more often than 3 times in a fight. I mean most heroes in the game with a special move can pretty much spam those by now. BP can go into his bulwark like 20 times before he runs out of stam. And i'll mention it again (seems like you completely disregarded that point). If they adjust all evasive moves she needs compensation for it. Otherwise she'll get smacked in the face hard. We don't need another shugoki incident
I think, that, sadly, shinobis mixup ups don't neccessarily are fun to play with. It either feels like getting parried or having two hits at the same time. Your goal seems to be, that you land two heavies, which is highly unlikely, unlesss you play against somebody that doesn't know how to parry at all.
A thing i would wish for the shinobi-rework would be the ability to soft-feint a heavy into light, which is able to either run under the opponents attack, which would look similar to gladiators deflect, or have a higher guard. A Tackle seems useless and wasteful of stamina everytime imo.
Secondly, shinobi should not be allowed to initiate with a ranged attack. A combo, where he kicks the opponent and then afterwards flings his sickle would be more fun. Or to have made a backflip and then land his sickles. Normal ranged attacks should not be as punishable and should just stagger/pull the shinobi towards the parrying enemy and shouldn't absoloutely lay him flat - a centurion will take advantage of this and you are done in two hits most of the time, when being ganked. Instead the ranged pull should be highly punishable, but a pulling animation would be nice, so you dont have to lay on your backs for eternity, while the enemy hits you.
As last thought, i think they should keep this revenge-deflect-kick-mechanic, since this is a rare opportunity for shinobi to shine.
Finally, I'd like to post this new moveset, that i would like for shinobi:
Shadow-dancer: L->L (between 22 and 18dmg)
Ghoul's Rage: R->L (between 36 and 31 dmg)
*New Combo w/o Grab: R->R (between 50 and 44 dmg)
*New Sickle Rain: R->GB(ranged and melee)+S->L+L+L (between 100 and 88 dmg, applies bleed (3xDot) for a total of 127 dmg)
*New Combo (I'd like to call "Kamaitachi's Assault") : R-> GB+W/A/D-> R(r)->Spacebar->(Hold) Left (should work like shaolin LLL Combo) (A total of roundabout 90 damage, should stamina drain)
Ranged R(r) after successfull kicks in any direction, or after backflip.
R soft-feint into L has higher guard/runs under the opponents attack, when timed correctly. This only, if direction of SF and R are the same though.
The deflect combos are fine in terms of fun, nontheless, I'd like to tune down the damage quite a bit.
Light Damage from the sides: 11pHit; From top: 9pHit
Right damage from the sides: 22pHit; from top: 25pHit
Ranged Attacks: 17 dmg
Chip dmg from bleed: 3pDot
Questions? Additions? Let me know, even if Ubi will probably never see this.
A tip for dealing with backflipping Shinobies. If you dodge the kick, immediately unlock and sprint towards the shinobi. Either he'll heavy after his whiffed kick, which you can roll under and punish the recovery (once you do this the first time, he might expect it again and go for the light after heavy, but that's an easy parry). If he back flips, he'll mostly likely go for an attack. If it's a range heavy, same principle as before. If it's a range GB, simply roll under and you get a free GB. If he goes for nothing, now you have him on the defensive and he's wasted 1/3 or more of his stamina
A nice tip but complicated as you led yourself into another 50/50 also his heavies track partially if he delays it or decides to go for double light immediately after double dash and you roll one of the light will catch you and you cant parry it
@@Filet_Mignon22 You only unlock aftet a whiffed kick, not the double dash. And as you approach the shinobi, any attacks are easily rolled under. Worst case scenario, you get hit with a chain light
@@UnderTheWalnutTree rolling cost more stamina then whiffing the kick doesn't it? So who is still losing the stamina battle?
@@Filet_Mignon22 With the double (or potentially quad) dash, backflip and/or any attacks, you'll at least trade even, if not come out on top. And the more you do it, the more the shinobi will stop backflipping. Then normal GB after kick might work, or just parry a non chained attack. If anything, you put the shinobi into a mixup, as he has to do something to make his kick safe, all of which is reactable punishable by the player.
FINAAAAAAALLLY! THANK YOU FREEZE I'VE BEEN WAITING FOR THIS FOR A WHILE AS A SHINOBI MAIN
I hate fighting Conq, Valk, Raider, Shaman, and Shinobis. But to be honest, Now shinobi's got me curious.
Might start playing Shinobi
I miss quad dash days :(
Why is every hero's heavys faster than the Wardens lmao
cause warden entire kit revolves on spamming shoulder bash
Imo shinobi doesnt need much rework. I think they should rework all other assasins and other heroes to match his versatility. I dont know if that would be a good option or not, but thats what i think SHOULD happen. I love playing shinobi bc it takes a fair amount of skill and reaction timing even though alot can be forgiving for him. Its fun and i like his complexity and the large amount of options he has for mix-ups. Thats why i feel that other assasins should have that same fast paced feel to them with the tools they need.
All assassins should have a bs mechanic like back flip? And crazy high dmg?
@@Hunter-zn5tb backflip is not a bs mechanic and can even be punished by some hereos. Even when you cant punish it just follow him. Dont dogde just dont leave him alone. When he is scared he will trow lights and backflip again so just parry him. Its easy and after a light parry the fight is already almost over
@@Hunter-zn5tb idk. Maybe. If other assassins have equally good mechanics, then they would balance better (in my theory). But of course they would have to tone down shinobi a bit. Its just a vague idea. I dont have any specific solutions bc im not that knowledgable when it comes to specific mechanics and all that stuff.
@@PressurePD the simpleton "just parry" I play people like RobinV and Oma Gosh on a regular basis and I'll tell you now it's harder to deal with passive shinobi that get 50 for a deflect, 40 from GB, and 24 from heavy parry. And the "some heroes can counter it" is terrible reasoning at best! That's to say BP is okay as long as you can react to his bash every time and not get button smashed.
Everyone knows Cent Nobu and PK need the most work heh
Nobushi is B tier. Rework Aramusha, Valkyrie and cent
@@hopoutattheafterparty6245 Ara and Valk don't need it. They only need a slight touch up and they'll be fine. Nobu is too defensive and needs changes, since the game is not meant to be defensive anymore. PK needs it second most, her pick rate is the lowest of the roster, her damage is minimal to the point where you have to work twice as hard as any given opponent, she needs a rework to make her actually halfway effective. And I said Cent, so.
@@daenomi3911
Valkyrie and Aramusha are literally unplayable. Why do you think they are both D tier
@@hopoutattheafterparty6245 Nobushi is complete trash
@@daenomi3911 Valkyrie and Aramusha are both absolutely trash
So what your saying is everyone should be playing shinobi ??? And he doesnt super need to be reworked he is a unique character takes at least some skill more to play than most ....but the whole game takes skill
Shinobi really does not need a buff or nerf. He is totally fine.
I dont know why people have a problem with him. High risk high reward
@@PressurePD thats what im saying
@@johnnyvitale4883 yeah i agree with you
I dont have any problem whit shinobi I kimda like that he's a glass cannon
Are you kidding me Ubisoft,from 35 bleed damage to 4????Who designed this fucking change holy shit
you forgot to include the infinite chain with two shinobi where the target gets pulled by a shinobi, does the sickle rain, then the other shinobi pulls (guaranteed btw) and does the same thing, rinse and repeat. Super cancerous.
Rip quad dash and backflip
5:10 when you Go full Naruto
Wall splat is 33 Damage, not 40
I want centurion
I might play shinobi just for his infinite dash :D
Till you run put of stam or get gb
Isnt enmu the guy i always see with shitty ping getting handled by other youtubers?
Shinobi: has an ok moveset, is really fitting for a samurai assassin character.
Pk: exists
For Honor community: rework Shinobi
People complaining about how Shinobi is some crazy turtle hero... the hell? Maybe in the right(Or wrong depending on how you see it) hands he is, but come on people be honest, how many shinobi's have you seen NOT literally disintegrate upon being attacked by more than one person(Or just run away for that matter)? I agree he needs changes, but hes more of a mess than Over/Underpowered, especially outside of pro play. Please don't do my boi dirty cause of a few bad eggs, I for one like to play him as honorably as possible.
Honour doesn't exist
Daaamn I'm about a start playing Shinobi this is actually insane
Nobody:
Literally nobody:
Not a single raider:
Shinobi: *_OSOI_*
*HISSATSU*
I've decided to stop playing shinobi until they nerf the sickle rain cutscene. Ranged gb wouldn't be such an issue by itself if it just led to heavy light. Maybe with a slight damage nerf and possibility of early wakeup if interrupted by ally.
I suggest allowing him to flicker ranged attacks as compensation, the same way shaman does. It's not like she has any less range, and gets punished much less on parries.
The option select parries have to go though. And the revenge deflect.
A nerf? It's near impossible to pull off a double heavy in 1v1's, and his ranged gb gets him damaged on a punish for more than he'd get if it were successful.
I'd get leaving raider because of his buff, but Shino is too good?
Shinobi does have a flicker but that's not the point you shouldnt be asking for a flicker in general that's what made this game so broken back then everyone flickered attacks
@@that-one-guyfrom-that-one-1239 i know its dumb
I dont get these people
No way shino is op wtf
Thank you freeze very cool.
Every night before I sleep I pray that this abysmally designed character gets gutted to a completely unuseable state.
Also while we're at it kill nobu too.
And buff raider am i right?
I mean when we talk about stupid ideas you should not miss that
Timo 753
Oh, and make all Assasins have instant parry guards. Only fair you don’t miss that one too.
People in this comment section are so delusional it makes me worry about this community. This video portrays shinobi as an unkillable beast with no counterplay while in reality his moves are easily reactable and easiky punishable. Ok i get that in 4v4s he is too strong with his ranged gb and sickle rain and it should be nerfed. BUT shinobi is a high risk high reward character because it is actually hard opening up someone in a 1v1 just to get a little bit of damage and making one mistake can easily lead to you dying since his HP is so low.
Shinobi and cent are the 2 that really need reworks because they both have awful kits cent relys on wall splats and his cutscene and shinobi heavily relys on turtleing. And ubi wants to remove that. I want his damaged balanced out but give him an actual kit so he can do more than dodge kick, heavy, roll, either another kick or sickle rain but you have characters that can snipe people a.k.a shaman with the same range but not even that bad of a punish but for some reason shinobi loses like half his stam and gets pulled onto the ground
and musha, and Nobu(other than hs) and valk, etc
Hey freeze, quick correction: His zone doesn't actually have super armor, but it ignores bashes. That means that the second and third swing of the zone can be punished by dodge attacks such as Orochi's or Kensei's, but not by Conqueror's.
Again, Shinobi is a mess of a character and should be deleted.
Yeah its fuckin weird. You can zone on warden SB startup and you'll dodge a level 1 and punish it
@@danestambaugh255 oh so you tell me there is one single character who can punish wardens sb with one attack when timed correctly and its op?? Just play around it then
Its a good thing to have attacks that counter eachother
@@PressurePD I never said anything about it being op? I just said it was weird. Chill the fuck out man I dont even play either of these heroes
Bruh come on guys a shinobi isn't a hard character to defeat , i agree that he does alot damage but he's a counter attacker he must need to have alot damage for a parrie and deflect