Hi J & J, when I put upper hive entrances in, I actually drill the hole in the top super, right in the hand grip recess. As a nectar flow begins, these are by far the most used entrances in my hives. I've actually never put a specialized cover on with the hole as you've shown it here. Also, many of the tree hives I've found had just one opening and it was the upper entrance with no lower hole at all. Top ventilation is definitely a benefit in my experience, particularly in winter when the lower entrance may be temporarily completely covered in snow, ice, or a combination of the two. Glad I noticed your video post, thumbs UP!
I know this is an older video... and you may have figured it out along the way. If you haven’t, imirie shims need to be placed right above the brood box underneath the first honey super. Once that super gets pretty full, add another super and either move the shim up above the now almost full first super (so it is now below the freshly added honey super) or just add a second shim under the new super. The stronger the flow and higher the population of the hive will dictate to me if I add another shim or just move the one on the hive. There is a method, and it does work, especially if you use queen excluders. Best of luck!
I use emery shims each year and once the hive reaches peak population they truly start to use all entrances. I believe the true benefit of these shims is ventilation and cooling of the hive / dehydrating nectar for honey production.
I use these on every hive and my bees love them.....they may not be working for you because you have them in the wrong spot.....i put them between the supers during the flow and between the the brood box and my moisture quilt in the winter. During the flow the foragers dont have to go to the bottom of the hive and in the winter heat rises and when its warm enough for cleansing flights the bees dont have to go the whole way down to the bottom of the hive to get out. They stay close to the cluster and that gets them out and back into the hive quickly. And ventilation is extra important and these help tremendously. Used with a moisture quilt of landscape fabric and wood shavings, my bees are dry and warm all winter long. I learned a hard lesson on that and lost some hives....since then I've had ZERO winter losses.
I ordered an entrance shim from Mann Lake and their directions tell you not to put it directly on top of your queen excluder and that it is designed to go between supers with drawn comb only. You add a shim between supers 2 and 3 and one between 4 and 5. It's also designed to help reduce swarming by relieving congestion in your brood boxes. Time will tell, I suppose.
The Imirie Shim, is used between a couple of suppers! George Imirie was quite specific in its use. So saying it is worthless is pretty cruel. I use it as an upper entrance all the time. Read about George, there was a site called yellow/pink pages, some kind of color, google him. He was quite a beekeeper, I never met him personally but I did hear him talk once. I think he was a scientist that worked on the Atomic bomb during WWII.
I can't say I am a "long time" beekeeper but I too have found in the 5 years we have been beekeeping that it really doesn't get used. We experimented last year with putting it between the honey super and the brood chamber and that was highly effective during hot days to allow some to come and go.
Hmmm, good to know! I may try that out. I'm sure you're getting some hot days up there now, aren't you? The weather channel won't shut up about you Northerners getting our weather up there. That can't be good for the plants or pleasant for you.
3 years ago when I started this, I read that nectar storage is a relay race. the foragers pass the nectar off to other bees, who may pass that off to other bees, who may pass that off to other bees, ............ , who finally deposit it in the cells.
I have noticed some bees using them. Also if you do use them make sure you place them to the front as they are a great access for guard bees to exit in a hurry for a defensive action, like the beekeeper hefting the box to check weight. 😂 i learned this first hand not to long ago.
I have some of my inner covers with the slot cut in them and sometimes see bees using that as an entrance. I also have one hive where the hive box is warped allowing for a small space where they come and go.
I love using imirie shims to build my lids. They're great for a vent and it's typically one less part to deal with once you install it as part of a solid lid.
i have noticed on my hives with multiple entrances, that the bees seem to favor one entrance if that was how the hive was originally setup. On a hive that had multiple entrances from the start, the bees seem to use them better but still favor one entrance over the others.
I’ve notice comb built in the shim. I wasn’t sure if I would like it so I only used two of them. As for ventilation I think an easier way is just place a stick between the inner cover and top cover. That’s enough to push out the warm moist air in winter. I’ve kept bees for years. All the extras as I call them are just a gimmick for the suppliers to make money. Keep it simple, keep the mites under control, have healthy populations and healthy bees. You’ll do fine.
The purpose of shimming the hives in winter is to keep the moist air from condensing on the cold top cover and then dripping down on the cluster. This would be a sure way to kill a colony. That warm moist air needs to vent. This keeps the bees dry throughout the winter. It isn't any different than a technique used by beekeepers that drill a hole in the top hive body at the hand hold. I don't like this because I don't like guard bees at my hands when lifting boxes. So, a 3/8 inch piece of wood is placed between the top cover and inner cover.
Bee Bob I have a piece of wood shim in my hives now for ventilation in the hot summer. This will work in winter as well? I live in NW Wisconsin and the winters can get pretty cold. I’m still tryin* to decide what to do for winter.
Is for upper ventilation. When bees Cluster heat rises and moisture forms in top cover or inner cover and then drips onto bee cluster. Cold bees that get wet in winter die. This problem kills whole colonies.
I have great respect for the late George Imirie but can't you accomplish the same thing by offsetting some of the supers forward or backward an inch and a quarter? That leaves a new entrance for the bees into the overhanging super. It also leaves some part of the super exposed to the weather on the opposite side of the hive but you can easily cure that with a scrap of wood placed on top of the exposed area. The bees will glue down the scrap of wood with propolis. I do this all the time to provide an upper entrance and it requires no extra equipment (like a shim) and it does not violate the bee space (like a shim).
reduce your lower entrance to the larger size on a standard entrance reducer, there is not a heavy enough flow of bee traffic to warrant a fully open bottom. Reducing that entrance will allow guard bees to be more effective at protection, give drones and bees with pollen an entrance, while allowing bees with both full honey gut and pollen baskets to utilize the top entrance. In your case place the top entrance above your hand holds so the top of the hand hold becomes their landing board. In boxes with cut out hand holds, place the hole below the hand hold and nail on a small piece if wood to make a landing board. The bees will like landing on a flat surface vs trying to dead land on the side of the hive. Ensure your second entrance diameter is 1”-1.5”. Kelley beekeeping or other stores have an entrance plug/cover to fit this type of round hole. Use the cover in the cold months of winter when cleansing flights will not be able to take place and once the entrance is utilized less during the end of fall. Ensure the hole is made on a super that is always on the hive for winter stores (1st) super after brood box, so it allows access to the honey and top brood box, but negates the need to climb brood comb and fight traffic below when storing pollen and nectar. They might leave by bottom entrance and return by top or just use the top, while drones and bees with just pollen and some honey in the gut will use the bottom. Basically, your entrance is too small to really be effective other than winter cleansing flights or for ventilation, as you do not have the vented “super” above your inner cover, also too high in the hive. Screw the shims man, drill a hole lol.
Hi was reading the comments and like all the suggestion here's mine it so the bee's can't proppuliz the telescoping top down if that do you will need a slughammer
I just overwintered my first hive and for some reason there only using the top entrance. Very few bees are using the bottom one. Do you have any thoughts on this?
I'm very new to beekeeping, almost 6 hours new! But I do air conditioning. It seems that this access doors are more for ventilatuon purposes than access, remember that heat rises, just as the colony does if the winter or outside temperature is cold and they are heating, I learned that they start moving up if it is getting to hot... so having this will allow some heat to scape hence the colony won't overheat... same principle applies on summer... if you see bees in the entrance trying to cool the brood then add this to the top and will help with ventilation... my thoughts though, I don't even have my hive yet, just getting as much information before hand.
I agree that beetles and moths will have an opportunity to enter but this is not an issue for varroa unless its used for robbing as varroa enter on the backs of bees
Hi J & J, when I put upper hive entrances in, I actually drill the hole in the top super, right in the hand grip recess. As a nectar flow begins, these are by far the most used entrances in my hives. I've actually never put a specialized cover on with the hole as you've shown it here. Also, many of the tree hives I've found had just one opening and it was the upper entrance with no lower hole at all. Top ventilation is definitely a benefit in my experience, particularly in winter when the lower entrance may be temporarily completely covered in snow, ice, or a combination of the two. Glad I noticed your video post, thumbs UP!
It is good to hear that it is working and being beneficial to others. Perhaps I just need to give them more time with it.
I know this is an older video... and you may have figured it out along the way. If you haven’t, imirie shims need to be placed right above the brood box underneath the first honey super. Once that super gets pretty full, add another super and either move the shim up above the now almost full first super (so it is now below the freshly added honey super) or just add a second shim under the new super. The stronger the flow and higher the population of the hive will dictate to me if I add another shim or just move the one on the hive. There is a method, and it does work, especially if you use queen excluders. Best of luck!
I use emery shims each year and once the hive reaches peak population they truly start to use all entrances. I believe the true benefit of these shims is ventilation and cooling of the hive / dehydrating nectar for honey production.
Good to know!
Where do you place the shim? On top or under the top super?
I use these on every hive and my bees love them.....they may not be working for you because you have them in the wrong spot.....i put them between the supers during the flow and between the the brood box and my moisture quilt in the winter. During the flow the foragers dont have to go to the bottom of the hive and in the winter heat rises and when its warm enough for cleansing flights the bees dont have to go the whole way down to the bottom of the hive to get out. They stay close to the cluster and that gets them out and back into the hive quickly. And ventilation is extra important and these help tremendously. Used with a moisture quilt of landscape fabric and wood shavings, my bees are dry and warm all winter long. I learned a hard lesson on that and lost some hives....since then I've had ZERO winter losses.
I ordered an entrance shim from Mann Lake and their directions tell you not to put it directly on top of your queen excluder and that it is designed to go between supers with drawn comb only. You add a shim between supers 2 and 3 and one between 4 and 5. It's also designed to help reduce swarming by relieving congestion in your brood boxes. Time will tell, I suppose.
The Imirie Shim, is used between a couple of suppers! George Imirie was quite specific in its use. So saying it is worthless is pretty cruel. I use it as an upper entrance all the time. Read about George, there was a site called yellow/pink pages, some kind of color, google him. He was quite a beekeeper, I never met him personally but I did hear him talk once. I think he was a scientist that worked on the Atomic bomb during WWII.
Here in missouri I feel it's best to have some kind of upper entrance because of our high humidity. Especially in the winter.
I can't say I am a "long time" beekeeper but I too have found in the 5 years we have been beekeeping that it really doesn't get used. We experimented last year with putting it between the honey super and the brood chamber and that was highly effective during hot days to allow some to come and go.
Hmmm, good to know! I may try that out. I'm sure you're getting some hot days up there now, aren't you? The weather channel won't shut up about you Northerners getting our weather up there. That can't be good for the plants or pleasant for you.
3 years ago when I started this, I read that nectar storage is a relay race. the foragers pass the nectar off to other bees, who may pass that off to other bees, who may pass that off to other bees, ............ , who finally deposit it in the cells.
I have noticed some bees using them. Also if you do use them make sure you place them to the front as they are a great access for guard bees to exit in a hurry for a defensive action, like the beekeeper hefting the box to check weight. 😂 i learned this first hand not to long ago.
I have some of my inner covers with the slot cut in them and sometimes see bees using that as an entrance. I also have one hive where the hive box is warped allowing for a small space where they come and go.
Maybe my issue is my bees being from Mississippi. Seems those Texas bees have it figured out.
Haha! Perhaps some bees are just more accustomed to having the doors and windows open.
I love using imirie shims to build my lids. They're great for a vent and it's typically one less part to deal with once you install it as part of a solid lid.
i have noticed on my hives with multiple entrances, that the bees seem to favor one entrance if that was how the hive was originally setup. On a hive that had multiple entrances from the start, the bees seem to use them better but still favor one entrance over the others.
That makes sense too, thank you!
read above comment, might help, might not, just for thought
Only reason I see for shims is extra space on top when providing pollen sub patties or varroa treatments like Apiguard.
My bees use the Upper access a lot
I’ve notice comb built in the shim. I wasn’t sure if I would like it so I only used two of them. As for ventilation I think an easier way is just place a stick between the inner cover and top cover. That’s enough to push out the warm moist air in winter. I’ve kept bees for years. All the extras as I call them are just a gimmick for the suppliers to make money. Keep it simple, keep the mites under control, have healthy populations and healthy bees. You’ll do fine.
You shim your hives open in winter? That seems unusual. Perhaps I misunderstood. Most of us are worried about keeping the warm air IN during winter.
The purpose of shimming the hives in winter is to keep the moist air from condensing on the cold top cover and then dripping down on the cluster. This would be a sure way to kill a colony. That warm moist air needs to vent. This keeps the bees dry throughout the winter.
It isn't any different than a technique used by beekeepers that drill a hole in the top hive body at the hand hold. I don't like this because I don't like guard bees at my hands when lifting boxes.
So, a 3/8 inch piece of wood is placed between the top cover and inner cover.
Bee Bob I have a piece of wood shim in my hives now for ventilation in the hot summer. This will work in winter as well? I live in NW Wisconsin and the winters can get pretty cold. I’m still tryin* to decide what to do for winter.
Is for upper ventilation. When bees Cluster heat rises and moisture forms in top cover or inner cover and then drips onto bee cluster. Cold bees that get wet in winter die. This problem kills whole colonies.
You will be glad you have a upper entrance. In winter dead bees or snow can block a entrance to were the rest cant out .
I have great respect for the late George Imirie but can't you accomplish the same thing by offsetting some of the supers forward or backward an inch and a quarter? That leaves a new entrance for the bees into the overhanging super. It also leaves some part of the super exposed to the weather on the opposite side of the hive but you can easily cure that with a scrap of wood placed on top of the exposed area. The bees will glue down the scrap of wood with propolis. I do this all the time to provide an upper entrance and it requires no extra equipment (like a shim) and it does not violate the bee space (like a shim).
Some people say you get less predators through the top.
But that's what I was told and haven't proven myself yet.
reduce your lower entrance to the larger size on a standard entrance reducer, there is not a heavy enough flow of bee traffic to warrant a fully open bottom. Reducing that entrance will allow guard bees to be more effective at protection, give drones and bees with pollen an entrance, while allowing bees with both full honey gut and pollen baskets to utilize the top entrance. In your case place the top entrance above your hand holds so the top of the hand hold becomes their landing board. In boxes with cut out hand holds, place the hole below the hand hold and nail on a small piece if wood to make a landing board. The bees will like landing on a flat surface vs trying to dead land on the side of the hive. Ensure your second entrance diameter is 1”-1.5”. Kelley beekeeping or other stores have an entrance plug/cover to fit this type of round hole. Use the cover in the cold months of winter when cleansing flights will not be able to take place and once the entrance is utilized less during the end of fall. Ensure the hole is made on a super that is always on the hive for winter stores (1st) super after brood box, so it allows access to the honey and top brood box, but negates the need to climb brood comb and fight traffic below when storing pollen and nectar. They might leave by bottom entrance and return by top or just use the top, while drones and bees with just pollen and some honey in the gut will use the bottom. Basically, your entrance is too small to really be effective other than winter cleansing flights or for ventilation, as you do not have the vented “super” above your inner cover, also too high in the hive. Screw the shims man, drill a hole lol.
Thanks for all the input!
Hi was reading the comments and like all the suggestion here's mine it so the bee's can't proppuliz the telescoping top down if that do you will need a slughammer
Allan Schwark just use a cut up feed bag or some duck canvas or burlap and you’ll not have that problem
I have tried the same, and I had no action of the bees using the upper entrance.
Seems that everybody is having different experiences.
Bees actual prefer an upper entrance in the wild
Interesting - I've read a LOT about bees and observed them for quite a while... and I cannot say that what you suggest is true.
Check out this link. ruclips.net/video/oi8TPVTj9HY/видео.html
I just overwintered my first hive and for some reason there only using the top entrance. Very few bees are using the bottom one. Do you have any thoughts on this?
I'm very new to beekeeping, almost 6 hours new! But I do air conditioning. It seems that this access doors are more for ventilatuon purposes than access, remember that heat rises, just as the colony does if the winter or outside temperature is cold and they are heating, I learned that they start moving up if it is getting to hot... so having this will allow some heat to scape hence the colony won't overheat... same principle applies on summer... if you see bees in the entrance trying to cool the brood then add this to the top and will help with ventilation... my thoughts though, I don't even have my hive yet, just getting as much information before hand.
The bees will decide to use it when they use it and ignore it when they don't.
Good option for having varroa mites, was moths, and hive beetles crawling in .... with all the bee guards at the normal entrance.
I get your point, but didn't see that issue on inspection.
I agree that beetles and moths will have an opportunity to enter but this is not an issue for varroa unless its used for robbing as varroa enter on the backs of bees
The logic sounds great, but by your own experience, it's not working......?
No, I don't think it is personally, but others swear by them.