@@EaterOfBaconSandwiches yeah, they did so a lot of cool quotes- but not as many as people attribute to them. The thing is though- WHO said it doesn't matter. the quote itself is the point he was making.
especially depending on weather or not some insignificant thing is at play.... people are flies and they just follow whatever they feel so going against that eeeehhhhh as marketing likes to say: *Yourresultsmayvary
First: I absolutely agree please don't kill me thanks. Secondly: A friend of mine actually works for a company producing both devices for large and small rooms. While they aren't both 1500 Watts but instead 3000 because that seems to work in Europe fine, he agreed that both devices give out the same energy and in that view are equally capable of heating any room. However, he also told me the actual reason for them to differentiate between room sizes: A Device designed for small rooms isn't meant to be running all the time. It's safety features and design aren't required to support the device running for a long time and therefore aren't actually "safe", at least legally, for running permanently. Large Room Heaters are required and made to run 24/7 without having any issues. In a room of the same size the large room heater Has ONLY the benefit of being (at least from the official side, whether the small room heater can consistently do that I don't know) capable to run all the time. That's it. Everything else is advertimsent. I don't know whether anyone is reading this at all, this comment is posted ages after the actual video, but I thought this info might both support your statements and at least as an alibi the companies, so here we go.
That's a very logical explanation. Though it does not explain how the oil-filled heater (whatever its called) from the old video was considered to be a large-room heater, as it wasn't cabable to stay on even for an hour. It's just bad engineering. If it's meant to be on 24/7 it should be cabable to release the labeled 1500 W per hour. Problem with the small ones are probably that they include a fan with motor, which will eventually fail, and the life span of that kind of heater will be shorter, if used to heat up large rooms, and the fan has to be consistently on.
Electric heating circuits are very simple and even though your point is somewhat valid, it would be difficult to make an unsafe heater unless we are talking extremely poor design and production. For instance, if the heating element got hot enough, it would break itself, similar to the filament in a light bulb, thus breaking the circuit and nothing happens.
@@fireballxl-5748Dear Fireball XL-5, basically you are right, but the device you buy is not supposed to break (within the warranty), so it is marketed for small rooms because it doesn't take long to heat up small rooms and the thermostat turns the device off before it can overheat, while large rooms take longer, causing breakdowns -> large devices that can run 24/7, with no fragile parts, are the better choice for large rooms (of course, they also need to be properly designed) Kind regards
As somebody who has taken thermodynamics classes at university, I understand your frustration. You can teach all you want, but some people just won't or can't learn. Keep on teaching for those who do want to learn! Also, I love how your two formats complement each other so nicely. One is concise, scripted, and professional, where the other is digging deep, showing emotion and frustration, and more personal. Since you've separated them into two channels, nobody can ever even complain about it. You've won RUclips on that aspect as far as I'm concerned. Keep up the great work!
In an ideal closed system, the hypothesis is correct, but as the room isn't a sealed system, the oil's thermal mass will lead to a slightly more efficient heater.
You shouldn't need to take college classes to understand that 1 watt = 1 watt, I guess marketing wank trumps logic. It's what happens when you prioritize creative writing instead of technology and science in schools, you get more creative 'writing'(marketing), but you have no idea how the world works.
As a kid, I read Mark Twain's "A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court". There is a part where the Yankee gets into an argument with a blacksmith called Dowley about the value of a wage relative to what it buys you vs. its absolute magnitude; the Yankee makes a foolproof argument, and expects his opponent's convictions to be utterly destroyed - except that is exactly what his logic turns out not to be: literally not foolproof. Dowley can't grasp or follow any of it and remains therefore utterly unconvinced. The insight I learned that day was that there is no point in arguing with people who can't follow logic - and nothing I witnessed on the Internet since then did anything to change that. Every conversation just reinforced that point again and again and again. Once you understand that 99% of people either can't or won't follow rational logic, never being able to convince anyone about anything on the Internet, regardless of how undeniably and overwhelmingly right you might be, suddenly makes a hell of a lot more sense. The first and last mistake in such a situation is trying to argue and expecting to win in the fist place. You're up against utter inability to understand how one thing inexorably implies another and stubborn convictions, and that's a combination impervious* to truth, fact, logic, reasoning, arguments, and anything else. You can only end up in a fight with that person; you will never change his mind... *every once in half a lifetime, you might come up against someone not only able to entertain a meaningful argument but willing to accept being proven wrong. Hang on to them, treasure them, even if they happen to be your worst enemy - they are more rare and precious than rubies (or a Rolls in the desert). Everyone else... you're up against their "gut feeling" and their immutable "knowlegde" of what "ought to be right" - and you lose. Every time.
@@dustgalaktika9573 As Fernando noted above, the basic principle was described in the linked video about air conditioners. To put it in the context of refrigerators: When a refrigerator makes food cold, it has to do something with the heat that it removes. It does that by moving it from inside of the frig to the outside. In addition, the compressor that's doing all the work to cool your food emits waste heat, which also has no place to go except the room it's in. So even with the door closed, refrigerators warm up the room, albeit by an insignificant amount for most situations. When you open the door, you may feel like cold is "coming out" at you but in reality, that's only the heat of the room displacing the colder air in the frig. Cold isn't coming out; heat is rushing in. Now that the interior of the frig is warm, the compressor attempts to remove the heat. But as long as the door is open, the warmer air of the room will just replace it. That warm air is the very same air that just got removed so you only set up a vicious cycle where the frig keeps trying to cool the very air it just removed. But on each cycle that air is warmer and warmer. Plus the compressor is now working overtime attempting to move warm air back to the same place it keeps coming from. Leave the door open long enough and that "insignificant" rise in room temperature starts to become measurable. And since your refrigerator is working without rest, it's life expectancy is getting shorter.
@@glennshuman4770 weight is relative to gravity and mass, given relativity, whichever planet your on unless you have to transit it to one planet to another. The lower the gravity, the more mass required to obtain said weight. Assume the weight is given on earth. Weight equals weight. Feathers may take up more volume at the same weight as something more dense but 1500 pounds is 1500 pounds. They are equal in weight therefore equal mass given that the relativity is both to the same gravitational force. The only difference is volume
If youre talking about on earth arguably the feathers as that 1500lbs probably is after air displacement. Kind of like how helium doesnt actually have negative weight
I've worked in HVAC most of my life. You are absolutely correct. On another note, I once had a sales clerk of a big box hardware store (I won't name names, but it rhymes with slowes) try to sell me on a more expensive model because it was more efficient. It is a tribute to my strength of will that I did not give him a twenty minute lecture or just choke the guy out. 😂
Lol, you should have told him! Some people just hear that it’s more efficient and therefore just think it is. Unless you think he knew and was just trying to blow smoke up your ass
I'm reminded of the classic question "which is heavier- a kilogram of steel or a kilogram of feathers." This video is just the comments going "but steel is heavier than feathers" and you saying "but they're both a kilogram!"
Honestly I hate this dumb debate about feathers and steel Saying [material] is heavier makes no damn sense, people should use the word "denser," Oh and also if you define heaviness by how hard it is to carry then feathers would be the obvious answer cuz 1kg would be big and also it'd fall apart and be impossible to carry
@@Xnoob545thats genius point, its supposed to be the same, thats whole point, that people immedietly think that becauss one is denser it must automatically means that it is heavier, when it doesnt
One can make the argument that since the steel is denser, it occupies less volume. As a consequence, it experiences a lower buoyant force from the air in the atmosphere, and so it weighs more.
@@jonathanfolkerts8281 was it measured in the vacuum? If not then it doesnt matter, one could say the arguement that because feathers experience higher buoyant force, so when measured in vacuum they would be heavier
This is just my own subjective experience: I have had occasion to run space heaters in northern climates since the 1980s. The watts are the watts. No argument. But the small-room space heaters don’t last as long if they’re used to heat a larger space, so I have had to replace them more frequently. The units labeled for larger spaces have simply lasted longer (in at least one case, it still works after three decades).
I'm guessing that's because the heating elements in the small ones with fans get hotter for longer. I'm guessing the oil filled radiator ones last longer simply because their thermostats shut down the heating elements more often, thus extending their life. Also, if they're heating elements are in oil then they probably get fewer or cooler hot spots on the heating element itself. Thirdly, the small one with a fan has a fan. That all by itself reduces the reliability of the unit because you've got yet another part that can fail.
Probably because the switching and sensing hardware for larger square footage is rated for much more frequent cycling. It's not just the elements that people need to pay attention to, it's the thermostats and switches.
Some people who has those Oil Filled heaters for large rooms, Had oil leakage problems under just 2 weeks of usage. so large room does NOT mean more reliable.
Dude, I completely get your frustration. Trying to overcome people's anecdotal evidence that "it's a different kind of heat" as they completely miss the scientific point of the whole thing is like beating your head on a brick wall. It is what it is though. I'm right there with ya, man.
See, what you're not getting though is that there is GMO heat and there is Organic Heat and you get what you pay for! The more expensive heaters give you Organic natural heat! /s
People are often scientifically illiterate. Some may think a gallon of gasoline in a fancy glass container has more energy than a gallon of gas in a cheap plastic container. Obviously they both have the same energy. Marketing is what's going on here in your heater example.
@linescrew I Disagree on your example! Petrol in cheap plastic container has more energy: you can burn the plastic container also and get some 'additional' energy, but of course, you can't burn glass (at least in a common environment).
I've got it! The dislikes and criticisms come from people who have paid more for their electric heaters because it said "large room". There is no way they were fooled, so this video simply must be wrong, despite all reason, physics, and evidence.
I bought a "large room" rated heater (an edenpure clone), yet completely agree with him on all points of his 2 videos. The fan on it is a good bit quieter than the standard smaller heaters, probably due to it being muffled by the giant box that the larger heater resides in. But I'm willing to admit that the real reason I bought it was for the remote control, so I don't have to get out from under my comfy blanket to turn it on or adjust the thermostat.
Agree. Buying one for its total features, that just happens to say "large room", is fine. Buying one _because_ it said "large room" is where people are getting fooled.
+ Bear Mro That assuredly is a component to the heater "haters." Unfortunately, it is human nature to stick to one's previous beliefs and perspectives rather than delving into analytical thought which might cause one to alter their previous beliefs . . . even when they are presented with convincing evidence that contradicts their perspective. No matter how much "truth" some are exposed to, and regardless of how blatantly true the "truth" may be, people tend to stick to their beliefs, and they will ignore facts, and create the wildest excuses for not accepting evidence or not taking a moment just to consider things. They tend to refuse to alter, change, and adapt. The wise ones know when to admit they were "wrong". They will seriously consider any, and all, evidence and perspectives frequently. If, and when, the time comes, they will change and adapt willingly . . . for adaptation is survival. If one were a skyscraper, then one could not be completely rigid and unyielding to the wind, for if one did not move, and sway with the wind, then one would tumble. If one stabs a dagger into running water, does the water halt? Does the water change?? No, it adapts. The water simply adapts to its surroundings and in so doing, it merely goes around the blade. This is true power!
The rational human mind is far superior among all other life in its ability to conceive the most outrageous rationalizations for its emotional decisions.
All those RUclips EXperts - you'll find them on every video topic. Experts are those who haven't fully evolved (maybe devolved is a better word) to Troll status.
@@glenagarrett4704 The higher up in the chain of actual Orthodontists experts could probably be classified as trolls, under a liberal definition of the word including allowing decades of pain and misery, letting people die years earlier than they should, and thousands, or even tens of thousands of dollars in surgeries that are often completely unnececary, almost always do not solve the real underlying problem, almost always completely preventable, and cause a permanent loss of bone. Then again, perhaps profiting off the completely preventable, often life long pain and misery of millions of people is too evil to be called a troll.
@@rexydallas8D I could agree with you on Orthodontists. They're aided and abetted by social norms, bullies and some parents who can't accept their child is anything less than their definition of perfect.
@@rexydallas8D Think that's obviously a basic occurrence in the entire medical industry. When I went to the hospital at 4 years old I got a special room, for me only, a queen sized bed when most patients get a cot in a shared room, my own toy sets, and even put my room across the hall from an entire play area for kids. Now some might say they do this as kids deserve better treatment for something that's not their fault or that it's upsetting that a child so young got in such bad shape. But the cynic in me suggests it's more that kids are a long term source of income while someone say in their 70s while yes will need care longer to recover, is a less profitable client as they have less chances to give service from them over time. Being 4 years old, if I live they now have a client till they grow older, so obviously a more profitable endeavor. My room made the rest of the hospital look like a prison for those who can't get up and get out. It really made me feel horrible when I watched my grandmother go while she didn't actually have a room but a curtained off cubby off the main hall.
Immediate profits matter more than longterm profits. A young human rarely gets sick. An end/of-life human has lots of malfunctioning organs & needs constant repair. The old human will give the hospital lots of money in frequent business .
this is so much like my argument regarding central heating radiators (convectors) with thermostatic valves, I still can not convince my partner turning the thermostat up does not make the room heat faster or make the radiator hotter. It just means it will heat the room to a higher temperature over time which results in having to turn the thermostat down manually and open a window as it is too hot in the room. I feel your pain.
I've had the same experience with my family in regards to the room thermostats. Turning them up higher doesn't heat the room faster. But then later you have to turn it down like you said. Here's another similar thing: When you are cooking something in boiling water at atmospheric pressure, once the water begins to boil at 212F or 100C, it doesn't get any hotter by turning the stove knob higher, all it does is converts water to steam at a faster rate, filling the room with water vapor, and uses more energy in doing so. But it doesn't cook faster.
@@solarfluxman8810 Oh that's a whole other can of worms my my house, you don't need to cook everything on maximum and it wont be so burnt! stove top or oven and dont get me started on not preheating the oven.
I used to make this argument as well, but I eventually realized that the cost and environmental impact of going to therapy far outweighs that of letting the thermostat be a couple degrees higher over the Winter.
@@unfortunatelyswagged6226 - Agree with you on that. There is a fine line between trying to educate, and saying too much. Sometimes it's better to let others do it how ever they want, if it's not causing too much pain. Always try to teach in a loving manner.
I feel your pain. I live in a country with split-type air conditioners, and people just set the lowest setting (16*C) when cooling and the highest setting (32*C) when heating. When they eventually freeze or sweat, they complain and turn the A/C off. Then turn it back on 5 minutes later. My explanation of how the compresor is not more powerful if set to 16*C as opposed to 22*C falls on deaf ears.
Trying to explain how heaters work to some dim-wits out there reminds me of the saying: "Don't try and teach a pig to sing, it just wastes your time and annoys the pig."
Back in the late 70's my High School choir teacher would say that during voice class. Yes it can be hard to get people to understand that 1,500 watts makes the same amount of heat no matter how it is packaged.
Conclusion: If you want fast heat for a short time, use a heater with a fan. If you want to keep a room at a consistent temperature, over a long period of time, use an oil filled heater. If you want to feel warm in a cold room, use a radiant heater, and aim it at the space you will occupy.
That's an important point that the video(s) don't cover: if _you_ want to feel warm _quickly_ , then a heater that concentrates the heat _in one direction_ (towards where you're sitting) will _feel_ more effective. If you're just wanting to heat the room altogether, then any heater of equivalent power will have the same effect - that's just basic physics. I'd agree with you about avoiding the ones with a fan, but more because the fan is more likely to fail if used for prolonged periods than ones without a fan, than that they're any better _as heaters_ . (Plus they tend to have more area that's not quite as hot, thus less dangerous [as in less likely to burn yourself - probably countered by you're more likely to dry/warm things on them].)
When I lived in Europe there was no problem to get a heater with a vent that was blowing air on slow and high speed, same as hair blower. In Canada there's no such thing as a vent in a heater that blows air as a hair blower. All and any heater blows air on slow. Warm air is not going on a distance, it all goes up. I know physics, but I want the heater blow the heated air, not just push.
@@zyeborm No, only how directional it is, and maybe some thermal lag. For the same power input, the same heat comes out: if it's directed at where you are sitting, _you_ will feel warmer sooner, but the _room_ won't heat any sooner. If the heater has inertia - such as some oil-filled types - they won't heat up as fast, but they'll stay hotter longer after turned off. I suppose you're right if you are using "quality" to mean "type" - i. e. directional or not. A lot of people use the word to imply "goodness" - there is no such thing as poor quality heat.
Precisely. Well said. I once heard that some vacuum cleaner company did a focus group on a potential new product line. It compared an older model with a big noisy motor with a newer, higher suction, objectively better unit but with a _quieter_ motor. Without exception, the testers preferred the older, less capable model because they perceived the noisier one to be "more powerful." The company dropped the development of the quieter line and went back to making noisy units. Gotta love consumers.
@@randomuser778 Speaking of vacuum cleaners, don't you love how they market cleaning "power" based on electrical inefficiency? Presumably a 15 amp motor produces more cleaning power than a 12 amp motor. Uh, nope. One just uses more electrical energy than the other. Which one is better at cleaning (based on box specs)? No idea. They both suck...
@@mikecowen6507 that why we in Europe have a specific test procedure that test the appliance efficiency in relation to the goal.it says it supposed to fulfil. A vacuum cleaner for instance is ranked on 7 grade scale. And this test *must* be present on the device on a letter sized label to be sold.
Dad: "we bought a ceramic heater" Me: "why?" Dad: "because it's better" Me: "how?" Dad: "it's more efficient" Me: "no it's not" Dad: "yes it is because it has a ceramic element" Me: "no it doesn't" Dad: "oh... Well we really like it" Me: "that's great. Can I have your old one?"
It's really lonely thinking for yourself as logically as possible for one to do, and to reach your own conclusions. People truly believe I'm totally nuts, and that might be true, but mass hysteria and indoctrination is basically everything in most people's daily lives. This man is basically begging people to understand rudimentary science and math, and they get angry about it because the propaganda and programming runs so deep. Look into "cognitive dissonance " The understanding of the concept has truly helped me get through life. And also self reflect on my own bias and shortcomings.
@@CreeperPookie Seriously, you're replying to a pretty good joke-comment from over a year ago, in a thread that was silent for 8 months.... With a single word grammar correction? I'll assume that's a habit. How often do you do that? Why do you do that? Have you even considered the amount of time you waste of people (you are trying to help)? Much less the amount of pointless stress and disapproval you have put out into the world with all those one-word comments combined?
Lot's a People don't get thermodynamics. It's common conjecture that getting electricity out the wall is cheaper than using gas. Turns out a euro of electricity get's me less energy then a euro of gas *. I did some digging around for standard utility prices here in the Netherlands. And I even pay under the national norm. *Only raw energy in Joules ofc. Not accounting for efficiency of devices and applications.
Space heater manufacturers HATE HIM! Because he doesn't know that space heaters exist in places besides the US. They're limited to 1500W to comply with certain codes, many of them are built to handle.. significantly more, but they're limited here.
A watt is a watt. No matter what the BS advertising for the heater says. As a long-time engineer I verify your conclusions are correct. The only way to get more heat than 1500 watts is to go to a higher capacity electrical circuit so more current can be drawn, thus more watts. The formula for that is P=E times I or power equals voltage times current. 120 volts times 12.5 amps equals, wait for it, 1500 watts.
Just install some NEMA-20 outlets on a dedicated breaker. Bam, 2000 watt potential. Or y'know, use that same electrical work time to install a 2-phase rig and slap a construction heater in there. You'll be sweating in no time!
Fixed baseboard or convective 240/208v heaters are more powerful and safer (they're on dedicated circuits, no outlet and draw less amps since it's 240v). Using them with a wall electronic thermostat is even better for comfort.
the oil filled radiator supplys heat even when the unit is cycled OFF the ceramic one supplies heat for maybe 2 minutes when off and heat goes down fast .. ceramic heaters are for instant heat gratification and not energy economic for long term heating (they use to much energy) oil filled radiates heat non stop regardless of on or off cycle ..uses less long term energy and is cost efficient over ceramic
You joke, but back when they were called the Standard Fruit Company they had a substantial role in taking over Honduras and several other Central American counties.
I want to say thank you for re-posting your old video. It is amazing to see how far your content has come, I appreciate all your videos and for those who say anything is a waste of time, no one made them watch it, they could have stopped at any point in time. Thank you for all the content and time you put into these videos and I enjoy them completely!
I use an oil-filled heater AND a fan blowing through it. 1.) Keeps the thermostat from cycling. 2.) Keeps convection, alone, from piling-up heated air at the ceiling. 3.) Super quiet. . Great vids, Boss.
@@HAWXLEADER Nope. The fan draws 60 Watts (maximum) at its highest setting. I usually use it at its middle setting, about 40 Watts. Yes, of course the fan motor is not 100% efficient, but those few extra calories (heat) are barely measurable. Think of a 40 Watt incandescent lamp: Will that heat an 1800 square foot space noticeably?
Still not as effective. Oil radiators space heaters like that have an added disadvantage of the heat capacity of the oil. That is they are going to take time as the oil reaches thermal saturation before it starts dissipating. While radiators are effective at dissipating heat out of a system it's just not going to complete in terms of thermal conductivity with a heating element with air blowing across it. You would be better off transmitting the heat to a fin stack and blowing air across it and eliminate the oil altogether.
@@tekcomputers True only if one demands the heat in a short time. Do keep in mind that when the thermostat cuts the power, the oil will remain hot longer than finned elements alone. The oil causes ZERO loss of efficiency, but does delay the energy transfer (dissipation). Heating a solid or fluid mass has distinct advantages; namely, the air temperature within the air space of interest stays closer to the desired setpoint. It obviates a thermostat's need to anticipate loss, and avoids rapid cycling (wear of the system).
That's exactly what I did at my last place. The regular fans are much more quiet than the little heaters, and they move more air. The room heated up quicker than just the oil radiator heater and it stayed a more consistent temperature than a little heater or the radiator.
these forks holding comments are just because you are indirectly saying to everyone who bought the "The Big Room Heater" Congrats you have just realized that you have been scammed by a marketing stunt 😁. that makes them feel like idiots and nobody in the entire universe like that feeling. so it's easier for them to call you wrong than to admit it *the denial stage* eventually they will come around.
Exactly! And thats why comments defending a product that has been tested to be inferior to another product are always suspiciuos. Most likely they just dont want to feel like idiots for buying crap.
So since they don't want to feel like idiots they keep acting like idiots? Being wrong about something can be exciting because it means you don't know everything yet (you'd be very bored if you did) and you just learned something new. I'm wrong sometimes, people that think they know everything are wrong all the time.
@@MasterTRL yap but some of them might have another point of view than ours but if they think the inferior product is just better without a good argument to back it up ... then they are avoiding the truth
The fan to move air around is huge - I had one of those oil-filled radiator style ones and I used to keep a little fan blowing across the fins. It really helped the thing heat up a whole room more effectively, rather than just the little section of air right around it.
You'll find all the heat is up near the ceiling not just the section around the heater. Just stand on a chair to see. You're right about the effect of the tiniest fan, just the smallest assistant to getting the warm air circulating down makes a massive difference.
Radiators indeed works best in combination with a ceiling fan that can circulate the air and prevent most of the heat from ending up in the ceiling. Although many fan heaters I have had, have had the same problem. Because they turn completely off (even the fan) once the thermostat turns off. The air is heated very quickly and the walls and floor is still cold once the thermostat turns off - since the fan also stops, the circulation stops as well and most of the heated air rises to the ceiling. When it turns on again, the air temperature rises again very quickly and the thermostat turns off after a short time and never gives the floor and lower part of the room enough time to heat up. It's slightly better to have one where the fan continue to run, even if the heating element is turned off. The best space heaters I have had (without a ceiling fan) is otherwise infrared heaters standing on the floor and/or pointing partially (or fully) downward, so most of the heat radiation hit the floor lower part of the walls furnitures etc. If running such an heater on thermostat (an external one is often needed though, since most don't have one built in), the floor is still hot when it turns off and take a while to cool down - this gives a much more even heat distribution and energy use (heat the ceiling is like heating a room that's not used - it will just increase the energy losses, without adding any comfort).
@@HelloKittyFanMan. I guess the only thing I could add is since watts are watts, it's about the type of heater, how it heats. Convection, radiation, conduction. You pick the type for your application. Maybe the people are saying that the small room heaters aren't good for big rooms in their experience happened to pick the wrong type and were dissatisfied?
@@christopherlambert5264: Yeah, I didn't doubt that. I just wondered if you had more that you could add for that defense. Someone even said that maybe the REAL room-size thing has to do, instead, with how long each heater can afford to stay on (setting aside the thermostat problem): "Assuming that the load is proportional to the size of the room, a 1500W heater should heat a small room fast and shutdown quickly." So maybe the bigger heater can afford to stay on longer, and thus take longer to heat up a bigger room with only the same 1500 watts (you couldn't make the bigger room as much hotter past the old temperature as you could make the smaller room, but then to make them the same temperature, you'd have the heater on for less time in the smaller room, and a smaller heater might afford that lower duty cycle just fine).
I think I watched this already, but RUclips keeps erasing my watch history... Either way, as a Mechanical Engineer (so not an HVAC type, but just enough knowledge to get myself in trouble :) ), I didn't see/hear anything you said that I disagree with. You seem to have a firm grasp on the physics of the situation. Unfortunately, everyone on this channel is also a technical type who enjoys this level of detail, and you're preaching to the choir. :) It's finding a way to convince the general masses that you're having difficulty with, and that's something the rest of us are particularly bad at, too.
The most common retort I saw in the main vid's comments was along the lines of: _Yeah, but he's just looking at the watts, it's the BTUs that matter._ (!)
@@Huntracony Yeah, I've started using that approach, myself. So far, though, there's a large number of videos that I haven't "liked" because I never thought to do so. My OCD also doesn't like how my list of "seen" videos is suddenly incomplete, but I'd never be able to go back and put the red line back under all of them, even if I just skipped to the end every time. :)
The only advantage I can think of for the "large room" baseboard style is the one you mentioned in the original video: That the shape is designed to create a heat curtain to minimize drafts when put below a window, preventing some heat loss and making the heater look more efficient than the "small room" one. But as soon as you have more than one window, I'd bet the effect is minimal
I've run into the most incompetent and rude 911 operators imaginable. People who think it's a greater priority to address the caller's profanity instead of dispatching help for the clear description of the issue at hand. If you have ever denied help or criticized a caller for using profanity during a stressful emergency then I hope you burn in hell. As far as I see it, you overpaid judgmental incompetent fucks are the problem not us.
I'm pretty interested, dude. Is there a story you can tell about what happened? I imagine that type of work is highly fulfilling (tho stressful) and I'm curious what kind of event might make a person reconsider such work.
So a flower pot over tea lights is a heat equivalent of an electrical lowpass filter - it's both a capacitor and a resistor, stabilising and delaying the heat output. Amazing!
In the end it's not about how much heat you produce but how to get it where it needs to be. What's why an electric blanket is much more efficient than a space heater: It only heats up the skin and not the entire room. For the same reason cars have seat and steering wheel heaters as option additionally to engine heating through the radiator.
@unfa: It's worth noting that it would be better to use an inductor than a resistor in the comparison, since inductors only produce heat because of the impurities of life.
Flowerpot over a low flame is very efficient, if you're stuck on propane. (Been there, done that, heated that way for a lot of years.) Also improves the character of the heat (see below) compared to direct burning -- probably the ceramic re-radiates at a lower wavelength. And while 1500W is 1500W, different heaters produce heat of different character, which probably has to do with where their emissions fall in the infrared spectrum -- lower wavelengths _feel_ warmer even when the air temperature is the same. I've had good results with a tiny quartz heater, a cheap barn heater, and a radiator-tank heater, but terrible results from a pricey Vornado brand space heater... even tho they all claim to use the same 1500W. Became painfully aware of differences in heat character when I had a firebox stove in a trailer. Even when the air temperature produced was the same, when it got below zero outside, burning wood never produced the same degree of perceived warmth as did burning coal. Probably a matter of how much was absorbed by the walls, so they weren't constantly sucking heat from the room.
@@Reziac Well wavelengths are neither low or high, I presume that you mean longer wavelength ie lower frequency in which case there is no probably about it, the frequency of the radiation from the flower pot will absolutely be lower. Frequency of emitted electromagnetic radiation increases with temperature, higher temperature = higher frequency = shorter wavelength. In the case of the flame you can see this as the flame radiates a lot of visible light but there is no visible glow from the pot because the heat being spread over a larger surface the surface is cooler and the radiation is mostly infrared.
@@MayContainJoe Uh, the radiator removes engine heat, it doesn't heat the engine. Unless you mean taking heat from the engine to heat the cabin, in which case the radiator still doesn't do this, the heater core (which is like a miniature radiator that is used to heat cabin air) does. This is why, if you happen to face an overheating engine situation and you need to power through it for whatever reason, your best bet is to turn the heat on full blast and rev the engine a bit (most cars have crank-driven water pumps, so to keep the coolant flowing you need engine RPMs to maximize flow).
@@mikecowen6507: It depends on the angle of the rays that part of the Earth is getting at the moment. That's why the seasons make more difference than day vs. night do.
For safety (not heat only) reasons we use an oil filled with a fan behind it AND a ceiling fan in winter mode (moving air from ceiling down). Keeps our large, high ceiling bedroom toasty. I'm sure any other heater could do the same, heat wise, but safety is what I gave the upper hand. Love your videos! Even the older ones like this 🙂
I feel your pain and frustration with this on electric heaters. I had to live in a static caravan for 5 years which was very poorly insulated, Thankfully I didn't have to pay the electric bill so electric heating was the best option in terms of the cost of heating the space. However the problem was I was limited with the amount of current I could draw so for heating the living room I had to limit the heating load to 2kw. I tried 3 types of electric heaters (all rated the same) the first one was an oil filled heater and like you said the thermostat was built into the side so even on the highest setting it would cycle on and off even when the room was chilly, next up was the convector heater which pretty much had the same type of built in thermostat so again the room although heated up better over a shorter time the heater still cycled on and off because of the proximity of the thermostat. The fan heater was the next thing I tried, this worked much better the room was a more even temperature in a much shorted time but the room cooled down much quicker once it switched off and the temperature variation made for an uncomfortable experience. I also tried using a flue less mobile gas heater and this heated the room much better but the humidity in the room was too high and led to damp issues! by far the best solution was in fact was an electronic fan assisted kerosene heater, although it added slightly to the rooms humidity the room was heated much more evenly and it was cheaper to run. The final solution in the end was to install a log burning stove with the electronic fan assisted kerosene heater for back up. So in my experience all the electric heaters did put out the same about of heat (in the end) but it was more the fault of the design and placement of the thermostat that hampered the heat output... rating these things in terms of different room size when they are the same watt output is just cretinous...
@@curtchase3730 You use the pound of lead for small towers and the pound of feathers for big ones. :-) Safety first! (And for 3-6 stories buildings, you have to use an anvil or a piano, obviously...)
Plot twist: while electric heating is 100% efficient, if you want to get heat, running a computer for BOINC or other grid-computing projects ends up being, overall, over 100% efficient. It produces heat at 100%, but it also produces computation that would otherwise be calculated on its own efficiency scale. You get two results at the same cost as just heat alone.
So, don't buy space heaters, buy high-mega-flops computers? But what to do with the computers? Run graphic intensive programs? So... buy some games? From... Gasp! STEAM heats rooms!
I turned my furnace down and am heating my bedroom with Rosetta and SETI (using dual 16-core Opterons, ~300W). Stays a nice comfy 71°F while the rest of the house is in the low 50s. With the difference in cost between electric and natural gas, the costs just about even out while also getting some useful work done.
He's not saying there are no differences between space heaters! The point is that "large room" vs. "small room" ratings are marketing nonsense, like having "large tub" vs. "small tub" soap. If you take those room size ratings off the products and look at their other features for their price -- that's great! Just don't pay more _only_ because it says "large room". End of story.
I think you're on to something there! Companies offer many varieties in order to fill more shelf space in the supermarket. Coming up with an excuse for another parameter will allow them to have more different items presented side-by-side. Avon does (or did; I don't know if it is still around) make soap that is for showers. But it's not just a label: it offers a distinct feature of being on a rope loop.
Damn, is that why I my wife says I smell -- I don't have the correct size soap for my tub! But I don't know if my tub is considered small or large. If I give you the dimensions can you tell me what the correct soap is?
The RUclipsr should have used the same TYPE of heater. When doing an experiment it’s important to eliminate all differences except one (the thing being tested). I have 2 fan forced heaters. One is small & identical to his unit. The other is about 4 times larger, because it’s a large room unit. Both 1500 watts. Both heat the room at the same rate .
@@electrictroy2010 you’re correct, he should have used 2 size versions of the same heater type, but his point is still totally valid. I grew up very poor, and we didn’t have central hvac, so I’m pretty well acquainted with these things (also the old 240 stack heaters, which are a whole different animal and really were dangerous as f***). No matter which ones we’d get over the years, the rooms would never feel any warmer or colder.
Ok but in big room I also would rather have small heater if it heat the room same. In this case it heats faster so the small is better for big room and it also takes less space.
I've seen shit like this few years ago when I was looking to buy a cordless drill. Apparently some US manufacturers, including DeWalt and Milwaukee, make drills that are listed as 20V and it was some marketing move to encroach on Makita. In reality they are exactly the same 5x3.7 18650 cells, which DeWalt in particular distributes in UK labelled as 18v. Exactly the same thing, I took both apart to compare, the only difference is on a sticker. Otherwise a good drill though. And yes, I've witnessed some arguments that 20v is much more gooderer than 18v because companies never lie.
It has to do with nominal and max voltage. 18 and 20 volt systems are the same. 18V is the nominal voltage, while 20V is the maximum voltage. Just a marketing ploy to make you think its more. That's why you can buy an adapter and use the 20v DeWalt batteries in a 18v drill.
@@masterofnone7233 Yes. Exactly. Lithium ion batteries can be charged to as high as 4.2 volts per cell. They won't like it very much, but they can go that high. 5 × 4.2 = 21 volts. Safer to keep them closer to 3.7 volts per cell (18.5 volts in a 5-cell series-wired pack). Better longevity to keep them from going above 4V per cell and between 20% and 80% full capacity (which the factory batteries and chargers probably do, unless they're stretching the watt-hour ratings). As I type this I currently own a handful of B&D cordless power tools which say 20V on the side. And I know this is peak voltage in a fully charged battery pack, not continuous voltage under heavy use.
And knowing that I hate that none of the cordless power tool providers (or any other cordless appliance) offer charging devices where you can set a target voltage, or at least having a volt meter. The only thing you can do is stopping the charging cycle somewhere, taking the battery out and measure its voltage with a second device. Really stupid.
because they really are Nicads and niMH are a far cry from lithium and they don't hold their voltage very well especially under load. Their only notable advantage over lithium is resistance to freezing outdoor temperatures. Modern 20v systems are only labeled as 18v because the older crowd had such an initial knee-jerk reaction back then. There were brands that were forced to sell _six_ celled 25.2v(24v) battery arrangements as '18v' because of that outdated nicad-era meddling for a long time
As exasperated as you appear to be trying to explain why they both produce the same heat... Try running a business that sells home comfort to homeowners... I have to explain this regularly... and cooling, and humidity issues, and insulation and duct design, and air losses... ugh. Trying to teach one who has made up their mind is nigh an impossible task...
The RUclipsr should have used the same TYPE of heater. When doing an experiment it’s important to eliminate all differences except one (the thing being tested). I have 2 fan forced heaters. One is small & identical to his unit. The other is about 4 times larger, because it’s a large room unit. Both 1500 watts. Both heat the room at the same rate .
The MOST IMPORTANT POINT of using space heaters was not addressed however, and that is: make sure your outlets are properly wired - I cannot stress this enough!!! A space heater rated at 1500w running on 110v is drawing 13.64 amps - which is getting close to the 15A rating of a regular outlet. Now if your house was built long ago they may have used the push-in quick contacts on the back of the outlets, instead of winding the wires around the screws. This affords NOWHERE NEAR the contact area for current to flow, and especially if the outlet you're using is feeding more outlets downstream, you can easily overload it and have a fire! Also if your home has aluminum wiring you need to make sure the pigtails are greased properly, or appropriate outlets are used - otherwise you will develop a high point of resistance and have a fire as was previously mentioned. Hope this helps someone!
@@shimes424 IKR! 12Ga rated at 24A - yeah right, and 10 years down the road in an environment with the least bit of humidity and they won't handle half that current! But they're UL approved... Maybe if using grease was mandatory they'd at least have a chance?
You VASTLY underestimate what old wiring means. How about two-conductor post-and-wrap with non-polarized outlets! Hahaha! And the kitchen's three-prong outlets were either grounded to the water pipes nearby, or not even grounded at all! - - - Anyway, old houses can have some sketchy wiring that doesn't support high-draw appliances.
I'm very happy the US doesn't. The US already has the highest energy usage per capita, it would just get worse. Having that said, I'm very happy with the 230v here which can make a difference at times.
@@WoLpH I wonder if that energy statistic factors in fuel based energy use along side electrical. Got to get the energy from somewhere, regardless of whether its electrical or fuel based, the 'energy' use per capita would be the same even if it was electrical.
@@WoLpH higher voltage leads to less energy wasted actually, and what matters is watts only anyways, 230 being a way to use less energy is just marketing as much as bigger looking heaters heating more is.
@@Anzac97 yes but half the power generated at the power plant gets wasted in transmission in power lines. if you burn gas or something in the house you get 100% efficiency of that fuel. if you have a decent gas or oil furnace you get 80% plus efficiency. losing half your power by burning fuel 200 miles away and then sending it through miles of wire (losing half along the way) is not the best solution
I just want you to know that your combination of actual information and dry sarcasm and whatnot is perfect. Keep it up! (Not that you need my approval or something)
I just found the video on your main channel so unnecessary because I thought it would be completely common knowledge about physics... but apparently not..? It scares me how little some people seem to know about this world...
People just aren't thinking, they take the packaging's word for it. It is just like people buying name brand painkillers. By law, the generic brand is exactly the same.
@@maplecinna3979 I agree for the most part, but I am getting my masters in Biochemical Engineering and one of the labs we did was finding differences between generic and name brand and some generic medicine had less active ingredient or vice-versa. It was always lower than what was advertised (probably as a safety provision) but yeah same ingredients just sometimes less accurate doses. I also just think people often hear something and don't think about it as others do. They just hear it and forget about it instead of asking questions or going through it in their head as to why something is the way it is. edit: To clarify we did percent dose of what was advertised not just a 200mg vs 150mg or something like that. If generic had less per mg number of pills, we corrected for that.
@@monkeyplayer1 I've noticed perceptible difference between name-brand and generic in spite of identical ingredient amounts. I can't say which is "better" or achieved appropriate goals, but I can say clearly that name-brand had more pronounced, "sharper" effects (which in personal opinion were not pleasant, and harder to recover from. results were excessive dizziness and disorientation over common cold and influenza)
doodoostickstain yeah that is kind of what I was getting at. Often times the name brands will have some, well basically catalysts that some people might be more sensitive to or use different fillers. Some have a sugar coating that is often made of lactose, which if someone is really lactose intolerant then that little bit can upset their stomach. I think we really need some reform about medicine in the U.S. a lot of the “inactive” ingredients we found weren’t on the label.
@@monkeyplayer1 i salute you and your study! I'd also like to see medicines more scrutinized, and appreciate your work. glad somebody noticed this, because people look at me like i'm strange when i tell them there's definitely something different regardless of what the ingredient list says. (note: i've also learned to take everything in half-doses. recommended shuts me down, and i don't bother with medicine unless it's really bad)
I really enjoyed your videos and know you are spot on. I can tell you are working extra hard to help those that just don't get it. I have been trying to teach my wife how the house thermostat works, but because she understands how the hot and cold work in a car, she cannot separate that. There were times at 3am and feel like the house is freezing and go check the thermostat and it is set to 60. She thinks the lower the number the faster and colder it will become when she sets it. I told her that if she's cold or hot, she can move the heat or cold up or down two digits and no more. That worked. Now I have a nice app run thermostat and can change the temp from our bedroom - finally, I'm not having to run to adjust it at 3am! Long story to tell you that you're not alone :)
Everything you’ve said makes sense to me. I never ever observed the 1500w labeling on all space heaters sold. You’ve reenforced what I’ve always known; marketers and advertisers are lairs ! Thanks for teaching me something.
Four ninety-nine percent of companies I take the advertised capabilities of a thing Isaiah maximum possible performance and I assumed that it is going to be worse probably with some incredibly misleading information trying to make you think that their product is obviously superior to the competitor even though they're practically the same thing just with a different brand name
You are stronger than me. I was happy uploading low view videos back in the day, then one day, someone got angry at my content & started leaving hurtful comments. So, that is where that dream died for me. Glad you were able to move on & continue doing what you like.
Don't read the comments. If you really care about the views, look at the statistics. I don't care about anything (rarely upload anything) and if someone comments something, I just leave it. Annoying at first, but funny to read later.
I think the marketing wank is awesome. What they actually mean is this... It's a Room Heater that is Small sized. It's a Room Heater that is Medium sized. It's a Room Heater that is Large sized. They are only referring to the footprint of the device and not it's application.
The heat does spread out but low velocity air raises to heat the air at the ceiling first and then slowly fills the space downward. Higher velocity air movement will push the heat out farther along the floor before convection moves it upward. The longer you keep warm air moving in the space you are in will keep you more comfortable than having most of the heat up above you. A larger heater will typically heat a larger volume of air but to a lower temperture, less likely to sindge your kitty cat.
@577AllWell Once you hit equilibrium, they will all be the same unless, as a cooler room means faster convection, and a wamer more even room will be slower to heat. You would need a constant stream of swirling air, like a large fan in a large room, to see a huge difference. So if you have tall ceilings or a large room and heater with a strong fan, you are correct...HOWEVER, the smaller models always have strong fans as the smaller elements will run hotter at 1500 watts, and need the extra cooling to retain that rating without burning out (a rating the marketers rely on to keep pace with the competition). Sooo, the larger units (like the large convection unit on his desk, or the oil one in his experiment) usually don't have a fan, while the smaller cheaper ones have a powerful one. Generally speaking, you still get better heat from a small cheap unit.
I watched both this and your original video, both of which are very good. I agree completely. Most people just don't understand enough about how the world works. One of my bug bears is people not understanding thermostats. "I turned it up so the place will warm up quicker". NO, IT WON'T! You will just have to get up at some point and reduce the setting because you are now too hot. The whole *point* of a thermostat is to regulate temperature. That's its job. Grrr!
With the minor exception that there are variable power “things” now. My desk heater has two wattage settings (low/high) which isn’t exciting since I have to set that myself. Same with my oil heater, it’s a low/medium/high (high=low+medium) element, and the thermostat turns it all on or off. Boring. My portable A/Cs use dynamic compressors that step up the farther away they are from the target temperature, so they do in fact blow colder air if you “crank them”. Except that the time when people do that is when there is a large gap anyway, so the A/C has already got that covered. And no, I don’t mean they ramp up the fan (although that too), the compressor itself steps up and down, and rarely cuts out completely (you hear the “thud” when it happens), the electricity goes from somewhere around 50w (fan on low, no compressor) to maybe 300w with the compressor on low, up to 1300w when it’s running full speed, with relatively smooth steps between. I assure you it does not have 1000w of fan. It does a pretty decent job of keeping the room comfortable without the too-hot, too-cold, and it basically eliminates short cycling (actually it has a short-cycle limiter too, even if you unplug it, it won’t start up the compressor immediately after it was cut off). But this is absolutely not what most people think when they “crank it”
@@JNCressey I never said it was debunked. I said he was testing their claims. The small heater may have been better in the small room, but that's because a small fan heater is far better for that application than a column heater.
@@JordyValentine I think that is exactly it, and I think that is the only thing that would put any credibility to the small room claim. In the small room spreading the heat with the air movement by the fan will feel like heating up the room a lot faster, allthough the larger non fan device puts out the same mount of heat. Having both put out the same amount of heat I think a good comparison test would be more like having them running for e.g. 24 hours, heating up the space from the same start temperature and logging the temperature over time. I bet it will again show that both put the same amount of heat into the room and after some time temperature stays the same with both. In a larger room only thing I can imagine is that the air movement by the fan has less effect, but over time the heating result ( the amount heat put into the room) is still the same.
Of course 1,500 watts of energy is 1,500 watts of energy. Sure the unwashed masses don't get this and hence the marketing people have to be creative to differentiate their products.Problem is though a room in a house is not a calorimeter so the very notion of "heat of the room" is flawed. How many points in the room is the temperature being measured at and No, there's no certainty all the air will eventually be at the same temperature.Reason the oil filled convection heater can do a poor job of heating a room is first its heat goes up to the ceiling. How much heat is lost through the ceiling depends on how well it's insulated. Eventually convection from the heater draws that air down to the floor to cycle through the radiator again. The fan heater first blows it's hot air over the floor so at floor level it likely will make the air hotter than the convection heater.I do hear comments about some heaters "not drying the air" but that's also nonsense. Raise the temperature of a volume of air by the same amount and the relative humidity goes down by the same amount. The only exception is a heater that's burning hydrocarbons and sending some of the combustion products into the room. With that there is water as one of the combustion products so they will not dry the room. Problem that may arise is condensation on cold surfaces.
Yes the hot air from the fan heater will eventually rise. Before it rises it will have heated the objects closest to the floor. To look at this another way which will make you the warmest, the fan heater on the floor blowing warm air onto you or the fan heater atop a ladder just below the ceiling?What's being ignored here is the room is "leaky" ( it's a cold room) so a lot of the thermal energy is escaping and it's almost certainly not escaping through the walls, floor and ceiling by the same amount. Maybe after 30 minutes the room is in a steady state but that does not mean all parts of the room are at the same temperature.Finally I'd point out that the best way to heat a house is with in-floor radiant heating. I'll admit the first time I heard this I had doubts but thinking beyond the basic physics I understood why.
Imagine sticking a heater in the corner of a huge ballroom and waiting until it reaches a steady state. The air around it is very hot and immediately adjacent to the cold walls, so energy is lost rapidly even though the room isn't that warm. On the other hand, imagine sticking it in the middle of the room. The edges of the room are not that hot, so energy is not being lost that rapidly even though the room is warm. So even though the power through the heater is the same, the temperature of the room is not. Seems pretty straightforward to me. This is also one advantage of oil-filled radiators. Because their power output is more consistent, there is smaller hysteresis in the cycles, even though it repeatedly turns on and off. So it really might require less power in the long run to heat a room this way as compared to turning a heater on and off completely. (That doesn't dispute anything in this video though, because this applies equally to small and large rooms.)
It’s the first thing we were taught when we become an electrician and it’s called schematics a 10 x 10 room put 1000 W heater in it will heat that room in 10 minutes. Put a 500 W heater in it and it will heat it in 20 minutes. Thus the room gets warmer quicker but takes the exact same amount of Hydro.
I agree with you, but with one small thing, during 20 minutes there is more heat loss from the walls of the room than 10 mins, so the same heat energy that you give would make the room a bit colder during the whole 20 minutes on average than the 10 minutes, but if you let the 10 min room for an additional 10 mins with out the heater they should equal out, (if we disregard the fact that more temp difference makes energy transfer faster)
@@hamoonhassan2573 And that's why the people who say, "I can't afford to tear out my walls and put in better (or the first, for old houses) insulation" but also plug in an electric heater to help their under-rated home heating system and then complain about the bills make me scratch my head. - - - If you're renting, I get it. But if you own, INSULATE!
If i need to heat the workplace: electric fans and resistive load. The best, by far, they can really blow the heat far away from the unit and heat up the room in minutes. If i have to live in the room: passive, oil filled electric radiator. No other choice is as comfortable. The stable heat they give WAY outweigh the speed that a fan heater has. You don't want the fan kicking in every 15 minutes or have the room lose heat when you briefly open a window or a door.. But: passive heating needs air circulation, convection alone will not do it. It does not need to be much, just that the air actually moves. The large oil filled radiator has a HUGE surface area so even a little bit of added circulation will make it act faster. One idea for a video: my parents house here in Finland has used heat exchanger since '84. It is passive, my uncle actually designed it and it can heat -25C incoming air with +20C outgoing and get up to 17C when it comes in the interior. That is one MASSIVE heat source that is too often just ventilated out.
Yes! Heat exchangers should be mandatory! If houses are sealed and well insulated, with a heat exchanger on the ventilation system, you don't need to put in that much energy to keep your house warm. Blowing out 25°C air from the bathroom and then sucking in -20°C air in through the vent is just helping the crows. My dad built a two stage system with a passive heat exchanger first and then a heat pump placed after it. The heat exchanger does most of the work, and then the heat pump finishes the job. After the heat pump, our exhaust air is often at or below zero degrees even though the outside temperature is above freezing. So our 25°C exhaust air is cooled down to about 0°C, and the fresh air that enters the house is heated to up to 50°C, depending on the outside temperature, of course
@@SuperSiggiboy agree, but they are called HRV (heat recovery ventilators/ventilation)... they do exist, and i agree they should be part of building code
sorry for an ignorant question: what are they exchanging the heat from? I'm pretty sure my house doesn't have any significant heat source that's being vented (in Japan), and likewise my parents' house (in the US). this sounds like a great idea, so I want to know more.
@@thoperSought it's done through phase change of liquids to gases. If you reverse an air conditioner, where you are essentially cooling the outside and the condenser is on the inside dumping the heat into the house. As long as the outside temp is higher than the refrigerant it can take BTUs from the air and move them into the house. And these refrigerants are super cold. I live in Arizona where it gets hot (50C) and I've seen frost form on AC units that need servicing and standing next to the outside unit dumping the heat outside is like hell. So if the process is reversed then it can heat a home. My knowledge is very limited but I think I got the basics down and I'm sure others will explain it better, but I just remember that there is only heat.. add heat or take heat. Look up vapor compression refrigeration. Have a great day!
By that measure, having a ton of water in a room that is heated by fish tank heaters and have fans blowing over them is the best way to heat a room because the additional thermal mass makes the room's temperature more stable. I don't disagree, but I think a smarter electric fan heater is still way more practical. That, and you might not want the thermal mass because the room will be slow to warm up and slow to cool down. If you're not in the room that's being heated, that energy is wasted as the room cools down. Having even basic PID control of fan speed and heater output would allow the fan to ramp up and down and the heating coils to ramp up and down, as they are needed. This could better control the room's temperature without wasting energy in an empty room. Also, if we're talking about efficiency, a heat pump is way more efficient than any of the above options.
Keep up the good work. You shouldn't worry much about like/dislike ratios. Just keep providing well-researched informative videos and nevermind the naysaying nitwits. Those people are _the very reason_ marketing jargon works. They fall for dubious claims and marketing wankery.
From what I understand the like/dislike ratio is unimportant to the almighty Algorithm. RUclips sees the votes and comments as viewer engagement and that's what counts. It cares about bringing viewers back to watch more ads. Viewer engagement shows that viewers get involoved and invest time. Many studies have shown once a person has invested a certain amount of time in an activity, they're reluctant to give up as they see it as a waste of their time. How many times have you got to just over half way in a bad movie and thought, well I've got this far, I may as well finish it now. It might even pick up a bit now. Only to to sit there at the end of the movie and think 'WTF did I just watch?'
@@maxximumb My understanding is that the engagements aren't considered by the algorithm either, for the same reason why the ratio and total count doesn't matter; it can be easily manipulated. Likes/dislikes are mainly used by the RUclipsr and viewers to see how well the video was received.
You are so correct. I went through this years ago (as a homeowner trying to save money). I basically came to the same conclusion. Here is one addition. The best way to heat a room is very quickly. You must heat the room up faster than it is loosing heat, or you are wasting your money. Like trying to blow up a balloon with a hole in it. That's why I think the best heater is the one with the strongest fan (highest cfm). Also loved your vid on those portable AC units with the vent that hooks to the window. Very helpful.
back in the 70's our incandescent bulbs "60-100 watts" were keeping the rooms warm as well :) Dad had a 150watt three way bulb in his lamp next to the sofa so he could read...it was always warm during the winter :)
Now that making or importing incandescent light bulbs is effectively outlawed in Europe, there's a company importing them and labelling them as "Heatball" space heaters. Authorities tried to stop them but they fought it through in court and won.
Thanks, you just saved me a ton of money. I now just use my toaster. And to prevent that annoying cycle off feature, I just jam a butter knife in there. ;-) Bonus: Bet you can't make toast with a space heater.
Electric oven at 350°, bottom-hinged door partially open, box fan on the kitchen counter blowing sideways across the gap. I heated a whole floor of my house that way for two days in January, while the furnace was on the fritz.
My feet were cold in bed so I just lit the end of my bed on fire. It worked great, quickly heated my whole house, and as an added bonus now I don't ever get cold feet.
ITS A WORLD WIDE CONSPIRACY!! im in argentina and all of them work on a max of 2000W its crazy the prize differences between them, thanks for the knowledge
I’ve had to break it to several people that ceiling fans don’t actually cool the room, and just make it feel cooler to your skin. They would leave all the fans on the house on while they are out to keep it cool. It’s important to know how things work.
Arguably its a bit more complicated than that. It depends on where the fans are pulling air from and to. A duct fan from a cool basement into a living space can definitely lower temperatures.
@@justins8802 In some cases a ceiling fan has a similar effect though. For example, someone might leave a ceiling fan on to draw hot air up and create a lower pressure zone which draws air in from a basement.
@dancooper6002 Take it from someone who grew up with ceiling fans. They force hot air (which naturally rises to the top of a room) downward; effectively making the space hotter but the movement of air against the skin makes it "feel" cooler: Similar to winter temperature and the "real feel" being colder because of wind chill. What I found in my cousin's house last winter was that by combining a space heater with a ceiling fan, I was able to raise the temperature of the room faster (There was a thermostat that immediately showed the temp rise as soon as I turned on the fan). Really cool experiment.
I seem to remember a news report, that tested several designs, and they used a thermal camera in their tests. They were also questioning the fact that these units were all 1500 watts but had differeng price points. The thermal camera showed more how the heater moved air around, than what temperature the room would get to given enough time. In each case the thermal camera indicated a hot spot where the heater was, the heat would rise to the ceiling in some manner and spread from there. It would take various amounts of time for the temperature to stabalize, with the larger forced air heater working the fastest and the radiative heaters the slowest. Therefore if you are going to only be in the room for a couple of hours the radiator would be useless. One thing I want to say, that neither the news nor your channel covered, was a ceiling fan/heater combination. Yes I understand this is a permanent installation, but my thoughts are the heat has to work its way to the ceiling before it spreads. What if the heating element were closer to the ceiling?
Well youd be surprised how much air moves through these things even without a fan. One could probably move an entire bedroom of air within just a few minutes.
Best answer is a heated floor. Installation is a bee with an itch. I know, I put one in at a friend's house (in his master bathroom). On a cold Winter's morn, step out of the shower onto a warm floor. Yay! If I ever get around to building my own house from the foundation up, that's the route to take throughout the entire house. I might still do the garage and bathrooms if we get a pre-owned house.
@@frederickevans4113 I am building a 2500 square foot shop and plan on installing in floor heat. This is Minnesota and the is nothing worse than having to crawl under you vehicle to fix it... in December or later. But on a heated floor it's business as usual. And... with floor drains this is a great place to park your winter vehicle and let all of the snow melt off!
I can just feel your frustration through the whole video. And coming from an engineering background, I completely understand and agree with what you're saying. Lots of people just don't understand thermodynamics, and the incredibly long time constant for heating systems.
As an electrician I was asked by a kindly woman how she could reduce her electric bill. (She had resistive electric furnace) she told me she had reduced her light bulbs to 15w and it had not changed her bill. ( pre-LED times) I told her that the previous 60w lamps were putting out 188 BTUs of heat, and the 15w lamps were putting out only 47 BTUs. This means her electric furnace had to run a tiny bit longer to make up for the heat that the lights weren't producing. Net savings either way 0%. Same KWH either way produces the same heat.
You will always get someone who thinks he knows it all and will try and contradict anything you say. I find your posts extremely educational and informative and that comes from someone who worked in the consumer electronics and electrical trade. Keep them coming.
Ive always wanted to know the btu output of the heaters. Thats how id like to buy them. But watching this video (and the one on the main channel) helps understand that 1500 watts is 1500 watts. Thank you.
Well the BTU on the box there is technically actually meaning BTU/hr as it represents power not energy in this case. 1 BTU = 1055.06 J so 1 BTU/hr = 0.293 J/s = 0.293 W thus why the BTU rating is a bit over 3 times the wattage as 1 W = 3.412 BTU/hr.
Having worked in cold offices for many years I can say with certainty the best supplemental heater is one that blows hot air directly at you. It's possible to be perfectly comfortable even in a very cold room if the hot air is coming from a fan pointed right at your skin.
You are very patient and generous. An interesting human trait, to generalize, is that smarter people tend to make the mistake of assuming others are able to reason as well. As such, I simply do not engage dumb commenters on youtube. You can tell by the nature of the comments the difference between someone who is merely ignorant, but wanting to learn, vs the obstinant dummies. I patiently explain to the former, but do not waste time on the latter.
I myself put a box-fan on low behind one of those oil-heaters and it was 10x better because it no longer got hot enough to kick itself on and off. Yes I agree, 1500-watts is 1500-watts. If you have a 1500-watt PC that is actively using 1500-watts, it's heating the room it's in the same amount as the fan-driven heater you've shown here.
How about these tv-shop heaters that are sold by "look, it only draws 250W!!! and saves energy"? But they forgot to tell you that it only heats as a 250W heater... I think people just don't care or understand about physics. If the package looks or says it's better then it has to be better... Same with the price.
I stopped using my $45 digital controlled heater because I did not like that it was always using high heat when maintaining temperature. You could select low/high for continuous heat, bypassing the thermostat. I went back to using a cheap mechanical controlled heater, which I could select low heat and still use the thermostat. Problem I was having with the digital is that the two bathrooms share a 15 amp breaker, so when both heaters are on low it works fine. But when one is digital and uses high heat, it would trip the breaker frequently. leading to cold bathrooms in the morning.
But market capitalism does _make_ one better. Demand determines what is better or more valuable, since there are no objective criterias for the "betterness" of a product in itself. By thinking that the lower-wattage heater is a better purchase, we effectively make it better, hence justify its price. Value is determined by the Market itself. Never mind that heat is a fundamental need for survival and that people will generally opt to buy what is available and affordable to them instead of opting for abstaining from buying into marketed products and therefore freezing to death.
Thanks for making these most interesting videos for us. The reason to buy a physically bigger heater is they're quieter. I am sorry people are giving you a hard time. Some people just like to stir up trouble. I just like to get along in peace. ~Cindy! :)
@@Torahboy1 nah. noise is noise. you want to be closer to the source of heat anyway, reading books n stuff listening to the wind outside in a snow storm.
![Twenty One Pilots - The Line (from Arcane Season 2) [Official Audio]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/XCz7WUotXs8/mqdefault.jpg)
You will always get more heat coming out of the RUclips comments section than from any heater sold in stores.
*lol*
It's 1500 watts
@@alex0589 Watt? (Let's get 1.5k "Watt"s here :-) )
@superkami guru 5120 BTUs. Same as all the others.
@@Omio9999 IT"S OVER NINE- ...Oh, thanks for derailing the well-aged meme FRANK
Well look at that, 5120 BTUs right there.
Naw man, they just get the hyphenation wrong. It’s “large room-heater” not “large-room heater” lol.
This is the only logical explanation.
Hyphen FTW!
Another proof of the importance of proper punctuation.
It would be funny if that was the case, but on the packaging (shown in the other video) it gave suggested room sizes.
I think it's clever marketing, they are doing this by saying large-room heating and having a picture of a room.. So you buy the large one.
"It is easier to fool someone than to convince them that they've been fooled" Mark Twain
That being true, is it irony that a common way to fool people is to tell them they've already been fooled? lol
@@EaterOfBaconSandwiches yeah, they did so a lot of cool quotes- but not as many as people attribute to them.
The thing is though- WHO said it doesn't matter. the quote itself is the point he was making.
That's what I don't get about conspiracy theories, they usually start with the statement that you've been fooled.
especially depending on weather or not some insignificant thing is at play.... people are flies and they just follow whatever they feel so going against that eeeehhhhh as marketing likes to say: *Yourresultsmayvary
Even if this wasn't a Mark Twain quote, it's such a Mark Twain thing to say
First: I absolutely agree please don't kill me thanks. Secondly: A friend of mine actually works for a company producing both devices for large and small rooms. While they aren't both 1500 Watts but instead 3000 because that seems to work in Europe fine, he agreed that both devices give out the same energy and in that view are equally capable of heating any room. However, he also told me the actual reason for them to differentiate between room sizes: A Device designed for small rooms isn't meant to be running all the time. It's safety features and design aren't required to support the device running for a long time and therefore aren't actually "safe", at least legally, for running permanently. Large Room Heaters are required and made to run 24/7 without having any issues. In a room of the same size the large room heater Has ONLY the benefit of being (at least from the official side, whether the small room heater can consistently do that I don't know) capable to run all the time. That's it. Everything else is advertimsent.
I don't know whether anyone is reading this at all, this comment is posted ages after the actual video, but I thought this info might both support your statements and at least as an alibi the companies, so here we go.
True. As a real Euro (and electric engineer) I aprove of this message.
this should be pinned
That's a very logical explanation. Though it does not explain how the oil-filled heater (whatever its called) from the old video was considered to be a large-room heater, as it wasn't cabable to stay on even for an hour. It's just bad engineering. If it's meant to be on 24/7 it should be cabable to release the labeled 1500 W per hour. Problem with the small ones are probably that they include a fan with motor, which will eventually fail, and the life span of that kind of heater will be shorter, if used to heat up large rooms, and the fan has to be consistently on.
Electric heating circuits are very simple and even though your point is somewhat valid, it would be difficult to make an unsafe heater unless we are talking extremely poor design and production. For instance, if the heating element got hot enough, it would break itself, similar to the filament in a light bulb, thus breaking the circuit and nothing happens.
@@fireballxl-5748Dear Fireball XL-5,
basically you are right, but the device you buy is not supposed to break (within the warranty), so it is marketed for small rooms because it doesn't take long to heat up small rooms and the thermostat turns the device off before it can overheat, while large rooms take longer, causing breakdowns
-> large devices that can run 24/7, with no fragile parts, are the better choice for large rooms (of course, they also need to be properly designed)
Kind regards
As somebody who has taken thermodynamics classes at university, I understand your frustration. You can teach all you want, but some people just won't or can't learn. Keep on teaching for those who do want to learn!
Also, I love how your two formats complement each other so nicely. One is concise, scripted, and professional, where the other is digging deep, showing emotion and frustration, and more personal. Since you've separated them into two channels, nobody can ever even complain about it. You've won RUclips on that aspect as far as I'm concerned. Keep up the great work!
some people do want to learn but don't listen, like many people do not read, and might be stubborn.
In an ideal closed system, the hypothesis is correct, but as the room isn't a sealed system, the oil's thermal mass will lead to a slightly more efficient heater.
Now you've made me curious, please do tell why you think this is the case.
You shouldn't need to take college classes to understand that 1 watt = 1 watt, I guess marketing wank trumps logic. It's what happens when you prioritize creative writing instead of technology and science in schools, you get more creative 'writing'(marketing), but you have no idea how the world works.
As a kid, I read Mark Twain's "A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court". There is a part where the Yankee gets into an argument with a blacksmith called Dowley about the value of a wage relative to what it buys you vs. its absolute magnitude; the Yankee makes a foolproof argument, and expects his opponent's convictions to be utterly destroyed - except that is exactly what his logic turns out not to be: literally not foolproof. Dowley can't grasp or follow any of it and remains therefore utterly unconvinced.
The insight I learned that day was that there is no point in arguing with people who can't follow logic - and nothing I witnessed on the Internet since then did anything to change that. Every conversation just reinforced that point again and again and again. Once you understand that 99% of people either can't or won't follow rational logic, never being able to convince anyone about anything on the Internet, regardless of how undeniably and overwhelmingly right you might be, suddenly makes a hell of a lot more sense.
The first and last mistake in such a situation is trying to argue and expecting to win in the fist place. You're up against utter inability to understand how one thing inexorably implies another and stubborn convictions, and that's a combination impervious* to truth, fact, logic, reasoning, arguments, and anything else. You can only end up in a fight with that person; you will never change his mind...
*every once in half a lifetime, you might come up against someone not only able to entertain a meaningful argument but willing to accept being proven wrong. Hang on to them, treasure them, even if they happen to be your worst enemy - they are more rare and precious than rubies (or a Rolls in the desert). Everyone else... you're up against their "gut feeling" and their immutable "knowlegde" of what "ought to be right" - and you lose. Every time.
You made these videos to settle a 5 year old grudge, I'm impressed.
He would be an amazing lawyer! I want him in my side of a fight for sure.
@@JeremyHeiden he'll get'em… eventually
He shall be avenged!!
Because, the internet
😆
"I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you"
I can't wait to see the comments when you explain how leaving your refrigerator door open heats the room up.
He already did that ruclips.net/video/_-mBeYC2KGc/видео.html
Never thought about that but it totally makes sense scientifically
You are being sarcastic (right?)
@@dustgalaktika9573 nope
@@dustgalaktika9573
As Fernando noted above, the basic principle was described in the linked video about air conditioners. To put it in the context of refrigerators:
When a refrigerator makes food cold, it has to do something with the heat that it removes. It does that by moving it from inside of the frig to the outside. In addition, the compressor that's doing all the work to cool your food emits waste heat, which also has no place to go except the room it's in. So even with the door closed, refrigerators warm up the room, albeit by an insignificant amount for most situations.
When you open the door, you may feel like cold is "coming out" at you but in reality, that's only the heat of the room displacing the colder air in the frig. Cold isn't coming out; heat is rushing in.
Now that the interior of the frig is warm, the compressor attempts to remove the heat. But as long as the door is open, the warmer air of the room will just replace it. That warm air is the very same air that just got removed so you only set up a vicious cycle where the frig keeps trying to cool the very air it just removed. But on each cycle that air is warmer and warmer.
Plus the compressor is now working overtime attempting to move warm air back to the same place it keeps coming from. Leave the door open long enough and that "insignificant" rise in room temperature starts to become measurable. And since your refrigerator is working without rest, it's life expectancy is getting shorter.
It's that "what heavier? 1500 pound of feathers vs 1500 pound of rocks" question....
Scary how many people get the answer wrong.
ruclips.net/video/uH0hikcwjIA/видео.html
@@glennshuman4770 weight is relative to gravity and mass, given relativity, whichever planet your on unless you have to transit it to one planet to another. The lower the gravity, the more mass required to obtain said weight. Assume the weight is given on earth. Weight equals weight. Feathers may take up more volume at the same weight as something more dense but 1500 pounds is 1500 pounds. They are equal in weight therefore equal mass given that the relativity is both to the same gravitational force. The only difference is volume
If youre talking about on earth arguably the feathers as that 1500lbs probably is after air displacement. Kind of like how helium doesnt actually have negative weight
But steel is heavier than feathers
In this house we obey the laws of thermodynamics!
I've worked in HVAC most of my life. You are absolutely correct.
On another note, I once had a sales clerk of a big box hardware store (I won't name names, but it rhymes with slowes) try to sell me on a more expensive model because it was more efficient.
It is a tribute to my strength of will that I did not give him a twenty minute lecture or just choke the guy out. 😂
Lol, you should have told him! Some people just hear that it’s more efficient and therefore just think it is. Unless you think he knew and was just trying to blow smoke up your ass
I'm reminded of the classic question "which is heavier- a kilogram of steel or a kilogram of feathers." This video is just the comments going "but steel is heavier than feathers" and you saying "but they're both a kilogram!"
😂👏
Honestly I hate this dumb debate about feathers and steel
Saying [material] is heavier makes no damn sense, people should use the word "denser,"
Oh and also if you define heaviness by how hard it is to carry then feathers would be the obvious answer cuz 1kg would be big and also it'd fall apart and be impossible to carry
@@Xnoob545thats genius point, its supposed to be the same, thats whole point, that people immedietly think that becauss one is denser it must automatically means that it is heavier, when it doesnt
One can make the argument that since the steel is denser, it occupies less volume. As a consequence, it experiences a lower buoyant force from the air in the atmosphere, and so it weighs more.
@@jonathanfolkerts8281 was it measured in the vacuum? If not then it doesnt matter, one could say the arguement that because feathers experience higher buoyant force, so when measured in vacuum they would be heavier
You just need to hire a football coach to tell the space heater that it needs to give 110%
some doping would be handy, in this case: a nice compact autotransformer.
the heat from his head is the extra 10%
Coaches: ignoring the laws of physics since... forever
Or a retail district manager......
"Go to 105 percent on the reactor." -- Captain Tupolev, _The Hunt for Red October_
Was it a heated argument?
Harr, harr, harrrr!
Head clicks to Left?
They were both about equally heated as each other.
liar liar pants of...hmmm, maybe fire would heat the room better.
👉🏻🚪
This is just my own subjective experience: I have had occasion to run space heaters in northern climates since the 1980s. The watts are the watts. No argument. But the small-room space heaters don’t last as long if they’re used to heat a larger space, so I have had to replace them more frequently. The units labeled for larger spaces have simply lasted longer (in at least one case, it still works after three decades).
I'm guessing that's because the heating elements in the small ones with fans get hotter for longer. I'm guessing the oil filled radiator ones last longer simply because their thermostats shut down the heating elements more often, thus extending their life. Also, if they're heating elements are in oil then they probably get fewer or cooler hot spots on the heating element itself. Thirdly, the small one with a fan has a fan. That all by itself reduces the reliability of the unit because you've got yet another part that can fail.
Probably because the switching and sensing hardware for larger square footage is rated for much more frequent cycling. It's not just the elements that people need to pay attention to, it's the thermostats and switches.
Some people who has those Oil Filled heaters for large rooms, Had oil leakage problems under just 2 weeks of usage. so large room does NOT mean more reliable.
just like any electronics, and appliances. you won the space heater lottory.
Dude, I completely get your frustration. Trying to overcome people's anecdotal evidence that "it's a different kind of heat" as they completely miss the scientific point of the whole thing is like beating your head on a brick wall.
It is what it is though. I'm right there with ya, man.
"But it's a... it--it's a _dry_ heat!"
See, what you're not getting though is that there is GMO heat and there is Organic Heat and you get what you pay for! The more expensive heaters give you Organic natural heat! /s
@@ZeidKhan: Haha, got your joke! But then... why would they treat "[o]rganic" as a brand?
i prefer my quark gluon plasma heat. its much more symmetric
Yeah man, it's waay more organic heat, man!
People are often scientifically illiterate. Some may think a gallon of gasoline in a fancy glass container has more energy than a gallon of gas in a cheap plastic container. Obviously they both have the same energy. Marketing is what's going on here in your heater example.
I'm sure it would have more energy if it was in a glass made of chakra stones.
@mimdotcc I'd rather live in a country with marketing than in one where my kid could be put to death for advertising his lemonade stand
@linescrew I Disagree on your example! Petrol in cheap plastic container has more energy: you can burn the plastic container also and get some 'additional' energy, but of course, you can't burn glass (at least in a common environment).
@@Mutantcy1992 In this country your kid's lemonade stand would be shut down for serving food without a license
Now, if you put the gasoline in a big Styrofoam cooler, then it'll heat things more effectively.
I've got it! The dislikes and criticisms come from people who have paid more for their electric heaters because it said "large room". There is no way they were fooled, so this video simply must be wrong, despite all reason, physics, and evidence.
I bought a "large room" rated heater (an edenpure clone), yet completely agree with him on all points of his 2 videos. The fan on it is a good bit quieter than the standard smaller heaters, probably due to it being muffled by the giant box that the larger heater resides in. But I'm willing to admit that the real reason I bought it was for the remote control, so I don't have to get out from under my comfy blanket to turn it on or adjust the thermostat.
Agree. Buying one for its total features, that just happens to say "large room", is fine. Buying one _because_ it said "large room" is where people are getting fooled.
Some Jeep Guy i can certainly respect that
+
Bear Mro
That assuredly is a component to the heater "haters." Unfortunately, it is human nature to stick to one's previous beliefs and perspectives rather than delving into analytical thought which might cause one to alter their previous beliefs . . . even when they are presented with convincing evidence that contradicts their perspective. No matter how much "truth" some are exposed to, and regardless of how blatantly true the "truth" may be, people tend to stick to their beliefs, and they will ignore facts, and create the wildest excuses for not accepting evidence or not taking a moment just to consider things. They tend to refuse to alter, change, and adapt. The wise ones know when to admit they were "wrong". They will seriously consider any, and all, evidence and perspectives frequently. If, and when, the time comes, they will change and adapt willingly . . . for adaptation is survival. If one were a skyscraper, then one could not be completely rigid and unyielding to the wind, for if one did not move, and sway with the wind, then one would tumble. If one stabs a dagger into running water, does the water halt? Does the water change?? No, it adapts. The water simply adapts to its surroundings and in so doing, it merely goes around the blade. This is true power!
The rational human mind is far superior among all other life in its ability to conceive the most outrageous rationalizations for its emotional decisions.
How did people get so mad at that old video lmao
All those RUclips EXperts - you'll find them on every video topic. Experts are those who haven't fully evolved (maybe devolved is a better word) to Troll status.
@@glenagarrett4704 The higher up in the chain of actual Orthodontists experts could probably be classified as trolls, under a liberal definition of the word including allowing decades of pain and misery, letting people die years earlier than they should, and thousands, or even tens of thousands of dollars in surgeries that are often completely unnececary, almost always do not solve the real underlying problem, almost always completely preventable, and cause a permanent loss of bone. Then again, perhaps profiting off the completely preventable, often life long pain and misery of millions of people is too evil to be called a troll.
@@rexydallas8D I could agree with you on Orthodontists. They're aided and abetted by social norms, bullies and some parents who can't accept their child is anything less than their definition of perfect.
@@rexydallas8D Think that's obviously a basic occurrence in the entire medical industry. When I went to the hospital at 4 years old I got a special room, for me only, a queen sized bed when most patients get a cot in a shared room, my own toy sets, and even put my room across the hall from an entire play area for kids. Now some might say they do this as kids deserve better treatment for something that's not their fault or that it's upsetting that a child so young got in such bad shape.
But the cynic in me suggests it's more that kids are a long term source of income while someone say in their 70s while yes will need care longer to recover, is a less profitable client as they have less chances to give service from them over time. Being 4 years old, if I live they now have a client till they grow older, so obviously a more profitable endeavor. My room made the rest of the hospital look like a prison for those who can't get up and get out. It really made me feel horrible when I watched my grandmother go while she didn't actually have a room but a curtained off cubby off the main hall.
Immediate profits matter more than longterm profits. A young human rarely gets sick. An end/of-life human has lots of malfunctioning organs & needs constant repair. The old human will give the hospital lots of money in frequent business
.
this is so much like my argument regarding central heating radiators (convectors) with thermostatic valves, I still can not convince my partner turning the thermostat up does not make the room heat faster or make the radiator hotter. It just means it will heat the room to a higher temperature over time which results in having to turn the thermostat down manually and open a window as it is too hot in the room. I feel your pain.
I've had the same experience with my family in regards to the room thermostats. Turning them up higher doesn't heat the room faster. But then later you have to turn it down like you said. Here's another similar thing: When you are cooking something in boiling water at atmospheric pressure, once the water begins to boil at 212F or 100C, it doesn't get any hotter by turning the stove knob higher, all it does is converts water to steam at a faster rate, filling the room with water vapor, and uses more energy in doing so. But it doesn't cook faster.
@@solarfluxman8810 Oh that's a whole other can of worms my my house, you don't need to cook everything on maximum and it wont be so burnt! stove top or oven and dont get me started on not preheating the oven.
I used to make this argument as well, but I eventually realized that the cost and environmental impact of going to therapy far outweighs that of letting the thermostat be a couple degrees higher over the Winter.
@@unfortunatelyswagged6226 - Agree with you on that. There is a fine line between trying to educate, and saying too much. Sometimes it's better to let others do it how ever they want, if it's not causing too much pain. Always try to teach in a loving manner.
I feel your pain. I live in a country with split-type air conditioners, and people just set the lowest setting (16*C) when cooling and the highest setting (32*C) when heating. When they eventually freeze or sweat, they complain and turn the A/C off. Then turn it back on 5 minutes later.
My explanation of how the compresor is not more powerful if set to 16*C as opposed to 22*C falls on deaf ears.
Computers make excellent space heaters. They also have fans built-in so no convection needed.
I sometimes end up running my window AC even in the winter because my room gets too hot with the PC on stacked with the furnace heat.
problem is that a 1500w setup is waay more expensive xD
@@froge8121 sad truth😖
@@froge8121 But its so much more fun!
@@froge8121 875w dell workstation, two 150w studio speakers and a 40" 4k monitor... plenty of warmth!
Trying to explain how heaters work to some dim-wits out there reminds me of the saying: "Don't try and teach a pig to sing, it just wastes your time and annoys the pig."
Back in the late 70's my High School choir teacher would say that during voice class. Yes it can be hard to get people to understand that 1,500 watts makes the same amount of heat no matter how it is packaged.
start a kickstarter to fleece them instead
I always heard it as "...teach a pig to fly". More absurd and ties in with Lewis Carroll.
Listen to Amputated - Pig Slam
Rassel. Rassel a pig. You both just get dirty, and the pig enjoys it.
Conclusion: If you want fast heat for a short time, use a heater with a fan. If you want to keep a room at a consistent temperature, over a long period of time, use an oil filled heater. If you want to feel warm in a cold room, use a radiant heater, and aim it at the space you will occupy.
That's an important point that the video(s) don't cover: if _you_ want to feel warm _quickly_ , then a heater that concentrates the heat _in one direction_ (towards where you're sitting) will _feel_ more effective. If you're just wanting to heat the room altogether, then any heater of equivalent power will have the same effect - that's just basic physics. I'd agree with you about avoiding the ones with a fan, but more because the fan is more likely to fail if used for prolonged periods than ones without a fan, than that they're any better _as heaters_ . (Plus they tend to have more area that's not quite as hot, thus less dangerous [as in less likely to burn yourself - probably countered by you're more likely to dry/warm things on them].)
When I lived in Europe there was no problem to get a heater with a vent that was blowing air on slow and high speed, same as hair blower. In Canada there's no such thing as a vent in a heater that blows air as a hair blower. All and any heater blows air on slow. Warm air is not going on a distance, it all goes up. I know physics, but I want the heater blow the heated air, not just push.
The quantity of heat is the same, the quality differs
@@zyeborm No, only how directional it is, and maybe some thermal lag. For the same power input, the same heat comes out: if it's directed at where you are sitting, _you_ will feel warmer sooner, but the _room_ won't heat any sooner. If the heater has inertia - such as some oil-filled types - they won't heat up as fast, but they'll stay hotter longer after turned off.
I suppose you're right if you are using "quality" to mean "type" - i. e. directional or not. A lot of people use the word to imply "goodness" - there is no such thing as poor quality heat.
@@G6JPG yes I meant quality as a property not an abstract good. But it sounded cooler that way and that's important right?
One's bigger. That changes human perception, facts don't matter to marketing.
Precisely. Well said.
I once heard that some vacuum cleaner company did a focus group on a potential new product line. It compared an older model with a big noisy motor with a newer, higher suction, objectively better unit but with a _quieter_ motor. Without exception, the testers preferred the older, less capable model because they perceived the noisier one to be "more powerful."
The company dropped the development of the quieter line and went back to making noisy units.
Gotta love consumers.
Yep. Might as well label those heaters as "Suitable for a [short/tall/grande] room."
I hate how true this is. It's the ultimate case of "feelings don't care about facts".
@@randomuser778 Speaking of vacuum cleaners, don't you love how they market cleaning "power" based on electrical inefficiency? Presumably a 15 amp motor produces more cleaning power than a 12 amp motor. Uh, nope. One just uses more electrical energy than the other. Which one is better at cleaning (based on box specs)? No idea. They both suck...
@@mikecowen6507 that why we in Europe have a specific test procedure that test the appliance efficiency in relation to the goal.it says it supposed to fulfil. A vacuum cleaner for instance is ranked on 7 grade scale. And this test *must* be present on the device on a letter sized label to be sold.
"Here's the link, please don't watch it"
Where we find that it was *also* a follow up video an even older video showing an even younger Alec...
Dad: "we bought a ceramic heater"
Me: "why?"
Dad: "because it's better"
Me: "how?"
Dad: "it's more efficient"
Me: "no it's not"
Dad: "yes it is because it has a ceramic element"
Me: "no it doesn't"
Dad: "oh... Well we really like it"
Me: "that's great. Can I have your old one?"
better yet, call it a "thermal engine" it'll sell like crazy
A ceramic heater? So you bought a kiln?
B A a treat espicial
No, Brawndo is betterdest because it has electrolytes!
s231744 Brawndo, it’s got what heaters crave!
Seeing him sad and frustrated really breaks my heart :(
It's really lonely thinking for yourself as logically as possible for one to do, and to reach your own conclusions. People truly believe I'm totally nuts, and that might be true, but mass hysteria and indoctrination is basically everything in most people's daily lives.
This man is basically begging people to understand rudimentary science and math, and they get angry about it because the propaganda and programming runs so deep.
Look into "cognitive dissonance "
The understanding of the concept has truly helped me get through life. And also self reflect on my own bias and shortcomings.
‘Basic thermal dynamics’
“THATS WHAT I’M GETTING AT!”
My favorite part was the statement just before that: "It's not science"...
That's*
@@CreeperPookie Seriously, you're replying to a pretty good joke-comment from over a year ago, in a thread that was silent for 8 months.... With a single word grammar correction?
I'll assume that's a habit. How often do you do that? Why do you do that? Have you even considered the amount of time you waste of people (you are trying to help)? Much less the amount of pointless stress and disapproval you have put out into the world with all those one-word comments combined?
Lot's a People don't get thermodynamics.
It's common conjecture that getting electricity out the wall is cheaper than using gas.
Turns out a euro of electricity get's me less energy then a euro of gas *. I did some digging around for standard utility prices here in the Netherlands. And I even pay under the national norm.
*Only raw energy in Joules ofc. Not accounting for efficiency of devices and applications.
@@FroggyMosh lol. Because it causes heat to warm the room.
Space heater manufacturers HATE HIM!
He found the perfect way to heat all room sizes with this *ONE WEIRD PHYSICS TRICK*
Learn the truth now!
what?>
@@SlippstersVideos Clickbait titles dude. You need to be on the internet more :p
Haha, way to make fun of those silly internet ads!
as someone who creates clickbait titles i find your comment highly offensive
Space heater manufacturers HATE HIM!
Because he doesn't know that space heaters exist in places besides the US. They're limited to 1500W to comply with certain codes, many of them are built to handle.. significantly more, but they're limited here.
A watt is a watt. No matter what the BS advertising for the heater says. As a long-time engineer I verify your conclusions are correct. The only way to get more heat than 1500 watts is to go to a higher capacity electrical circuit so more current can be drawn, thus more watts. The formula for that is P=E times I or power equals voltage times current. 120 volts times 12.5 amps equals, wait for it, 1500 watts.
Or use heat pump I suppose.
Just install some NEMA-20 outlets on a dedicated breaker. Bam, 2000 watt potential.
Or y'know, use that same electrical work time to install a 2-phase rig and slap a construction heater in there. You'll be sweating in no time!
@@ulogy Or come to Europe, we have 230V at 16 amps, a potential of over 3,500 watt.
Fixed baseboard or convective 240/208v heaters are more powerful and safer (they're on dedicated circuits, no outlet and draw less amps since it's 240v). Using them with a wall electronic thermostat is even better for comfort.
the oil filled radiator supplys heat even when the unit is cycled OFF the ceramic one supplies heat for maybe 2 minutes when off and heat goes down fast .. ceramic heaters are for instant heat gratification and not energy economic for long term heating (they use to much energy) oil filled radiates heat non stop regardless of on or off cycle ..uses less long term energy and is cost efficient over ceramic
Great, he sold out to big pineapple.
The shadowy Dole Whip lobby is far more powerful than many realise.
You joke, but back when they were called the Standard Fruit Company they had a substantial role in taking over Honduras and several other Central American counties.
@@BravoCharleses hence the term "Banana Republic"
are you on the dole, then?
more interesting test: heating via ac vs. space heater with a fan, comparing current drawn from the wall and heating effect.
I want to say thank you for re-posting your old video. It is amazing to see how far your content has come, I appreciate all your videos and for those who say anything is a waste of time, no one made them watch it, they could have stopped at any point in time. Thank you for all the content and time you put into these videos and I enjoy them completely!
"and here I am yelling at people cause... People are just the best"
I know these feels.
I use an oil-filled heater AND a fan blowing through it.
1.) Keeps the thermostat from cycling.
2.) Keeps convection, alone, from piling-up heated air at the ceiling.
3.) Super quiet.
.
Great vids, Boss.
That's cheating since the fan will take another 100-200Watts which will in fact increase the heat output compared to the small heater...
@@HAWXLEADER Nope. The fan draws 60 Watts (maximum) at its highest setting.
I usually use it at its middle setting, about 40 Watts.
Yes, of course the fan motor is not 100% efficient, but those few extra calories (heat) are barely measurable.
Think of a 40 Watt incandescent lamp: Will that heat an 1800 square foot space noticeably?
Still not as effective. Oil radiators space heaters like that have an added disadvantage of the heat capacity of the oil. That is they are going to take time as the oil reaches thermal saturation before it starts dissipating. While radiators are effective at dissipating heat out of a system it's just not going to complete in terms of thermal conductivity with a heating element with air blowing across it. You would be better off transmitting the heat to a fin stack and blowing air across it and eliminate the oil altogether.
@@tekcomputers True only if one demands the heat in a short time. Do keep in mind that when the thermostat cuts the power, the oil will remain hot longer than finned elements alone. The oil causes ZERO loss of efficiency, but does delay the energy transfer (dissipation). Heating a solid or fluid mass has distinct advantages; namely, the air temperature within the air space of interest stays closer to the desired setpoint. It obviates a thermostat's need to anticipate loss, and avoids rapid cycling (wear of the system).
That's exactly what I did at my last place. The regular fans are much more quiet than the little heaters, and they move more air. The room heated up quicker than just the oil radiator heater and it stayed a more consistent temperature than a little heater or the radiator.
these forks holding comments are just because you are indirectly saying to everyone who bought the "The Big Room Heater" Congrats you have just realized that you have been scammed by a marketing stunt 😁.
that makes them feel like idiots and nobody in the entire universe like that feeling. so it's easier for them to call you wrong than to admit it *the denial stage* eventually they will come around.
Exactly! And thats why comments defending a product that has been tested to be inferior to another product are always suspiciuos. Most likely they just dont want to feel like idiots for buying crap.
So since they don't want to feel like idiots they keep acting like idiots? Being wrong about something can be exciting because it means you don't know everything yet (you'd be very bored if you did) and you just learned something new. I'm wrong sometimes, people that think they know everything are wrong all the time.
@@MasterTRL yap but some of them might have another point of view than ours but if they think the inferior product is just better without a good argument to back it up ... then they are avoiding the truth
That's why many apple users are so religious about their products, lol
It is easier to fool people than to convince them they have been fooled.
The fan to move air around is huge - I had one of those oil-filled radiator style ones and I used to keep a little fan blowing across the fins. It really helped the thing heat up a whole room more effectively, rather than just the little section of air right around it.
You'll find all the heat is up near the ceiling not just the section around the heater. Just stand on a chair to see. You're right about the effect of the tiniest fan, just the smallest assistant to getting the warm air circulating down makes a massive difference.
@@DiscoFang This is why I run my ceiling fans (in reverse) sometimes in winter!
Radiators indeed works best in combination with a ceiling fan that can circulate the air and prevent most of the heat from ending up in the ceiling. Although many fan heaters I have had, have had the same problem. Because they turn completely off (even the fan) once the thermostat turns off. The air is heated very quickly and the walls and floor is still cold once the thermostat turns off - since the fan also stops, the circulation stops as well and most of the heated air rises to the ceiling. When it turns on again, the air temperature rises again very quickly and the thermostat turns off after a short time and never gives the floor and lower part of the room enough time to heat up. It's slightly better to have one where the fan continue to run, even if the heating element is turned off.
The best space heaters I have had (without a ceiling fan) is otherwise infrared heaters standing on the floor and/or pointing partially (or fully) downward, so most of the heat radiation hit the floor lower part of the walls furnitures etc. If running such an heater on thermostat (an external one is often needed though, since most don't have one built in), the floor is still hot when it turns off and take a while to cool down - this gives a much more even heat distribution and energy use (heat the ceiling is like heating a room that's not used - it will just increase the energy losses, without adding any comfort).
@@jameshoiby people should look at their ceiling fans. Most contemporary ones have two settings (reverse and normal) for winter/summer
Ps: it's usually a little black switch
Sorry I wasn't watching your channel 5 years ago. I'm an HVAC designer, I'd have defended you.
Sooo... K, let's hear it! What elaboration can ya provide?
@@HelloKittyFanMan. 1500 watts are 1500. Watts. Every thing he said is right.
@@HelloKittyFanMan. I guess the only thing I could add is since watts are watts, it's about the type of heater, how it heats. Convection, radiation, conduction. You pick the type for your application.
Maybe the people are saying that the small room heaters aren't good for big rooms in their experience happened to pick the wrong type and were dissatisfied?
@@christopherlambert5264: Yeah, I didn't doubt that. I just wondered if you had more that you could add for that defense.
Someone even said that maybe the REAL room-size thing has to do, instead, with how long each heater can afford to stay on (setting aside the thermostat problem): "Assuming that the load is proportional to the size of the room, a 1500W heater should heat a small room fast and shutdown quickly." So maybe the bigger heater can afford to stay on longer, and thus take longer to heat up a bigger room with only the same 1500 watts (you couldn't make the bigger room as much hotter past the old temperature as you could make the smaller room, but then to make them the same temperature, you'd have the heater on for less time in the smaller room, and a smaller heater might afford that lower duty cycle just fine).
@@christopherlambert5264
Any idea why a Convection only heater would be better than one with a fan for "large" rooms?
I think I watched this already, but RUclips keeps erasing my watch history... Either way, as a Mechanical Engineer (so not an HVAC type, but just enough knowledge to get myself in trouble :) ), I didn't see/hear anything you said that I disagree with. You seem to have a firm grasp on the physics of the situation. Unfortunately, everyone on this channel is also a technical type who enjoys this level of detail, and you're preaching to the choir. :) It's finding a way to convince the general masses that you're having difficulty with, and that's something the rest of us are particularly bad at, too.
The most common retort I saw in the main vid's comments was along the lines of:
_Yeah, but he's just looking at the watts, it's the BTUs that matter._ (!)
@@massimookissed1023 *facepalm* Okay, so maybe I was a little generous to say that "all your viewers are technical types"...
I usually see if I've seen it based on if I've liked the video, as I rarely watch videos that I don't like (both definitions apply).
@@Huntracony Yeah, I've started using that approach, myself. So far, though, there's a large number of videos that I haven't "liked" because I never thought to do so. My OCD also doesn't like how my list of "seen" videos is suddenly incomplete, but I'd never be able to go back and put the red line back under all of them, even if I just skipped to the end every time. :)
"Unfortunately, everyone on this channel is also a technical type who enjoys this level of detail, and you're preaching to the choir."
I stumbled onto your channel from Techmoan... I'd hug you if I could. Keep fighting the good fight.
*hug*
The only advantage I can think of for the "large room" baseboard style is the one you mentioned in the original video: That the shape is designed to create a heat curtain to minimize drafts when put below a window, preventing some heat loss and making the heater look more efficient than the "small room" one. But as soon as you have more than one window, I'd bet the effect is minimal
I worked as a 911 operator, police/fire dispatcher for 8 years. I had to quit because, like you said, people are the best. 😜
Kevin Barnard This is why Bartenders drink on the job!
I’ll bet the looney toons and weekly same things from same people didn’t help either. 🤪
I've run into the most incompetent and rude 911 operators imaginable. People who think it's a greater priority to address the caller's profanity instead of dispatching help for the clear description of the issue at hand. If you have ever denied help or criticized a caller for using profanity during a stressful emergency then I hope you burn in hell. As far as I see it, you overpaid judgmental incompetent fucks are the problem not us.
I'm pretty interested, dude. Is there a story you can tell about what happened? I imagine that type of work is highly fulfilling (tho stressful) and I'm curious what kind of event might make a person reconsider such work.
@@outlawscar3328 Why are you having so many emergencies that you are coming in contact with multiple rude 911 operators?
So a flower pot over tea lights is a heat equivalent of an electrical lowpass filter - it's both a capacitor and a resistor, stabilising and delaying the heat output. Amazing!
In the end it's not about how much heat you produce but how to get it where it needs to be. What's why an electric blanket is much more efficient than a space heater: It only heats up the skin and not the entire room. For the same reason cars have seat and steering wheel heaters as option additionally to engine heating through the radiator.
@unfa: It's worth noting that it would be better to use an inductor than a resistor in the comparison, since inductors only produce heat because of the impurities of life.
Flowerpot over a low flame is very efficient, if you're stuck on propane. (Been there, done that, heated that way for a lot of years.) Also improves the character of the heat (see below) compared to direct burning -- probably the ceramic re-radiates at a lower wavelength.
And while 1500W is 1500W, different heaters produce heat of different character, which probably has to do with where their emissions fall in the infrared spectrum -- lower wavelengths _feel_ warmer even when the air temperature is the same. I've had good results with a tiny quartz heater, a cheap barn heater, and a radiator-tank heater, but terrible results from a pricey Vornado brand space heater... even tho they all claim to use the same 1500W.
Became painfully aware of differences in heat character when I had a firebox stove in a trailer. Even when the air temperature produced was the same, when it got below zero outside, burning wood never produced the same degree of perceived warmth as did burning coal. Probably a matter of how much was absorbed by the walls, so they weren't constantly sucking heat from the room.
@@Reziac Well wavelengths are neither low or high, I presume that you mean longer wavelength ie lower frequency in which case there is no probably about it, the frequency of the radiation from the flower pot will absolutely be lower. Frequency of emitted electromagnetic radiation increases with temperature, higher temperature = higher frequency = shorter wavelength. In the case of the flame you can see this as the flame radiates a lot of visible light but there is no visible glow from the pot because the heat being spread over a larger surface the surface is cooler and the radiation is mostly infrared.
@@MayContainJoe Uh, the radiator removes engine heat, it doesn't heat the engine. Unless you mean taking heat from the engine to heat the cabin, in which case the radiator still doesn't do this, the heater core (which is like a miniature radiator that is used to heat cabin air) does.
This is why, if you happen to face an overheating engine situation and you need to power through it for whatever reason, your best bet is to turn the heat on full blast and rev the engine a bit (most cars have crank-driven water pumps, so to keep the coolant flowing you need engine RPMs to maximize flow).
The Sun is a space heater.
Large or small space tho?
PRAISE THE SUN
@@diamondsmasher: LARGE, duh, hehe!
If the sun is such a good space heater, you'd think space would be a little bit warmer by now... 🙃
@@mikecowen6507: It depends on the angle of the rays that part of the Earth is getting at the moment. That's why the seasons make more difference than day vs. night do.
For safety (not heat only) reasons we use an oil filled with a fan behind it AND a ceiling fan in winter mode (moving air from ceiling down). Keeps our large, high ceiling bedroom toasty. I'm sure any other heater could do the same, heat wise, but safety is what I gave the upper hand.
Love your videos! Even the older ones like this 🙂
Ahhh the RUclips comments section - where even people that agree with you will make an argument out of it.
how dare you make me agree with you!
I feel your pain and frustration with this on electric heaters. I had to live in a static caravan for 5 years which was very poorly insulated, Thankfully I didn't have to pay the electric bill so electric heating was the best option in terms of the cost of heating the space. However the problem was I was limited with the amount of current I could draw so for heating the living room I had to limit the heating load to 2kw. I tried 3 types of electric heaters (all rated the same) the first one was an oil filled heater and like you said the thermostat was built into the side so even on the highest setting it would cycle on and off even when the room was chilly, next up was the convector heater which pretty much had the same type of built in thermostat so again the room although heated up better over a shorter time the heater still cycled on and off because of the proximity of the thermostat. The fan heater was the next thing I tried, this worked much better the room was a more even temperature in a much shorted time but the room cooled down much quicker once it switched off and the temperature variation made for an uncomfortable experience. I also tried using a flue less mobile gas heater and this heated the room much better but the humidity in the room was too high and led to damp issues! by far the best solution was in fact was an electronic fan assisted kerosene heater, although it added slightly to the rooms humidity the room was heated much more evenly and it was cheaper to run. The final solution in the end was to install a log burning stove with the electronic fan assisted kerosene heater for back up. So in my experience all the electric heaters did put out the same about of heat (in the end) but it was more the fault of the design and placement of the thermostat that hampered the heat output... rating these things in terms of different room size when they are the same watt output is just cretinous...
But... Steel weighs more than feathers! (Same sort of comments coming from the critics!)
Nearly forgot about that classic. Haven't heard it for a while (guess everything is plastics now). Also reminds me of the good ol' 0.9999... = 1 bomb.
LOL. Which weighs more? A pound of lead, or a pound of feathers? This is how space heaters are marketed. Oh, the feathers are lighter..right?
@@curtchase3730 You use the pound of lead for small towers and the pound of feathers for big ones. :-) Safety first!
(And for 3-6 stories buildings, you have to use an anvil or a piano, obviously...)
@Harrie Hausenman As a musician, I IMPLORE you to use the anvil instead of the piano! TIA :)
@@BertGrink But think of all the anvil-players!
Fundamentally this video is about how marketing is terrible (paraphrasing). You've nailed that brilliantly.
Plot twist: while electric heating is 100% efficient, if you want to get heat, running a computer for BOINC or other grid-computing projects ends up being, overall, over 100% efficient. It produces heat at 100%, but it also produces computation that would otherwise be calculated on its own efficiency scale. You get two results at the same cost as just heat alone.
So, don't buy space heaters, buy high-mega-flops computers?
But what to do with the computers? Run graphic intensive programs? So... buy some games? From...
Gasp! STEAM heats rooms!
"over 100% efficient"
So how efficient then? 110%?150%? Something else? ;)
I turned my furnace down and am heating my bedroom with Rosetta and SETI (using dual 16-core Opterons, ~300W).
Stays a nice comfy 71°F while the rest of the house is in the low 50s.
With the difference in cost between electric and natural gas, the costs just about even out while also getting some useful work done.
Yup, I'm running FAH on 1080Ti to heat my room :D
Hell yeah, mine crypto for heat. Earning back a portion of your electrical bill, *while* heating your house. The only problems is noise...
You said you would throw up a card, but you didn't even gag ...
That came so far outta left field. When eventually the joke did land, it hurt my brain.
Ow.
Good one!
*Pedantic-Man has entered the chat* ;)
He's not saying there are no differences between space heaters! The point is that "large room" vs. "small room" ratings are marketing nonsense, like having "large tub" vs. "small tub" soap. If you take those room size ratings off the products and look at their other features for their price -- that's great! Just don't pay more _only_ because it says "large room". End of story.
I think you're on to something there! Companies offer many varieties in order to fill more shelf space in the supermarket. Coming up with an excuse for another parameter will allow them to have more different items presented side-by-side.
Avon does (or did; I don't know if it is still around) make soap that is for showers. But it's not just a label: it offers a distinct feature of being on a rope loop.
Love that analogy
Now I want to throw away all my small tub soap and get large tub soap! So much better for large tubs!
Damn, is that why I my wife says I smell -- I don't have the correct size soap for my tub! But I don't know if my tub is considered small or large. If I give you the dimensions can you tell me what the correct soap is?
The only way to be sure is to always buy the "large tub" soap, even if it costs a little more.
I know exactly why the small heaters are "better" for small rooms.
They take up less room space. 😑
Yup. It's that simple. 😆
The RUclipsr should have used the same TYPE of heater. When doing an experiment it’s important to eliminate all differences except one (the thing being tested).
I have 2 fan forced heaters. One is small & identical to his unit. The other is about 4 times larger, because it’s a large room unit. Both 1500 watts. Both heat the room at the same rate
.
@@electrictroy2010 you’re correct, he should have used 2 size versions of the same heater type, but his point is still totally valid. I grew up very poor, and we didn’t have central hvac, so I’m pretty well acquainted with these things (also the old 240 stack heaters, which are a whole different animal and really were dangerous as f***). No matter which ones we’d get over the years, the rooms would never feel any warmer or colder.
Facts. lmao
Ok but in big room I also would rather have small heater if it heat the room same. In this case it heats faster so the small is better for big room and it also takes less space.
Read the comment above you. Mr simple. And he mentioned your answer in the video. You must be a genius to come up with an answer you just learned.
I've seen shit like this few years ago when I was looking to buy a cordless drill. Apparently some US manufacturers, including DeWalt and Milwaukee, make drills that are listed as 20V and it was some marketing move to encroach on Makita. In reality they are exactly the same 5x3.7 18650 cells, which DeWalt in particular distributes in UK labelled as 18v. Exactly the same thing, I took both apart to compare, the only difference is on a sticker. Otherwise a good drill though.
And yes, I've witnessed some arguments that 20v is much more gooderer than 18v because companies never lie.
Milwaukee made in USA? Dude check those labels. Lol
It has to do with nominal and max voltage. 18 and 20 volt systems are the same. 18V is the nominal voltage, while 20V is the maximum voltage. Just a marketing ploy to make you think its more. That's why you can buy an adapter and use the 20v DeWalt batteries in a 18v drill.
@@masterofnone7233 Yes. Exactly. Lithium ion batteries can be charged to as high as 4.2 volts per cell. They won't like it very much, but they can go that high. 5 × 4.2 = 21 volts. Safer to keep them closer to 3.7 volts per cell (18.5 volts in a 5-cell series-wired pack). Better longevity to keep them from going above 4V per cell and between 20% and 80% full capacity (which the factory batteries and chargers probably do, unless they're stretching the watt-hour ratings).
As I type this I currently own a handful of B&D cordless power tools which say 20V on the side. And I know this is peak voltage in a fully charged battery pack, not continuous voltage under heavy use.
And knowing that I hate that none of the cordless power tool providers (or any other cordless appliance) offer charging devices where you can set a target voltage, or at least having a volt meter. The only thing you can do is stopping the charging cycle somewhere, taking the battery out and measure its voltage with a second device. Really stupid.
because they really are
Nicads and niMH are a far cry from lithium and they don't hold their voltage very well especially under load. Their only notable advantage over lithium is resistance to freezing outdoor temperatures.
Modern 20v systems are only labeled as 18v because the older crowd had such an initial knee-jerk reaction back then.
There were brands that were forced to sell _six_ celled 25.2v(24v) battery arrangements as '18v' because of that outdated nicad-era meddling for a long time
As exasperated as you appear to be trying to explain why they both produce the same heat...
Try running a business that sells home comfort to homeowners... I have to explain this regularly... and cooling, and humidity issues, and insulation and duct design, and air losses... ugh.
Trying to teach one who has made up their mind is nigh an impossible task...
You did the right thing. It's too bad that people don't get it. You shouldn't have to explain in such details.
"Please don't watch it"
*opens a new tab and watches the video*
"they produce a different type of heat" boy should I tell that commenter or someone else, there's only one type of heat
I don't think you or your comments are intelligent or understandable for a person with a brain
@@danlittlejohn1913 ok cool. Im still right though. Like its just physics mate.
The RUclipsr should have used the same TYPE of heater. When doing an experiment it’s important to eliminate all differences except one (the thing being tested).
I have 2 fan forced heaters. One is small & identical to his unit. The other is about 4 times larger, because it’s a large room unit. Both 1500 watts. Both heat the room at the same rate
.
The MOST IMPORTANT POINT of using space heaters was not addressed however, and that is: make sure your outlets are properly wired - I cannot stress this enough!!!
A space heater rated at 1500w running on 110v is drawing 13.64 amps - which is getting close to the 15A rating of a regular outlet. Now if your house was built long ago they may have used the push-in quick contacts on the back of the outlets, instead of winding the wires around the screws. This affords NOWHERE NEAR the contact area for current to flow, and especially if the outlet you're using is feeding more outlets downstream, you can easily overload it and have a fire!
Also if your home has aluminum wiring you need to make sure the pigtails are greased properly, or appropriate outlets are used - otherwise you will develop a high point of resistance and have a fire as was previously mentioned.
Hope this helps someone!
Thanks! This is very good info.
Yeah, tell this to the erect chickens using those wago connectors
@@shimes424
IKR! 12Ga rated at 24A - yeah right, and 10 years down the road in an environment with the least bit of humidity and they won't handle half that current! But they're UL approved...
Maybe if using grease was mandatory they'd at least have a chance?
This is why I'm rewiring my entire house to have all outlets on 20A circuits, no backstabs allowed.
You VASTLY underestimate what old wiring means. How about two-conductor post-and-wrap with non-polarized outlets! Hahaha! And the kitchen's three-prong outlets were either grounded to the water pipes nearby, or not even grounded at all! - - - Anyway, old houses can have some sketchy wiring that doesn't support high-draw appliances.
Things heating up in the space heater fandom
Never be afraid. Most of us are here to learn. Don’t let the daft keep you from teaching.
6:26 62.6 degrees! Double Stitch number! 😁
This was oddly satisfying...
Fuuuuuuuuuuuu**** crazy man!!!
a fellow lilo and stitch fan? never thought i'd see the day.
That's FREAKY!!!!
His expression right after says "YOU can't explain that"
I'm so happy we have 240 volt power and 3000 watt output heaters.
I'm very happy the US doesn't. The US already has the highest energy usage per capita, it would just get worse.
Having that said, I'm very happy with the 230v here which can make a difference at times.
In Turkey, which also has 240v mains, resistive heaters are limited to 2000 watts.
@@WoLpH I wonder if that energy statistic factors in fuel based energy use along side electrical. Got to get the energy from somewhere, regardless of whether its electrical or fuel based, the 'energy' use per capita would be the same even if it was electrical.
@@WoLpH higher voltage leads to less energy wasted actually, and what matters is watts only anyways, 230 being a way to use less energy is just marketing as much as bigger looking heaters heating more is.
@@Anzac97 yes but half the power generated at the power plant gets wasted in transmission in power lines. if you burn gas or something in the house you get 100% efficiency of that fuel. if you have a decent gas or oil furnace you get 80% plus efficiency. losing half your power by burning fuel 200 miles away and then sending it through miles of wire (losing half along the way) is not the best solution
I just want you to know that your combination of actual information and dry sarcasm and whatnot is perfect. Keep it up! (Not that you need my approval or something)
The big room heater does result in a warmer room BECAUSE you will stand next to it ranting and raving and ultimately produce more heat
Never did I imagine I'd see someone so passionate about space heaters.
Wow that like/dislike ratio improved fast! When exposed to a wide audience that video ages better.
I just found the video on your main channel so unnecessary because I thought it would be completely common knowledge about physics...
but apparently not..?
It scares me how little some people seem to know about this world...
People just aren't thinking, they take the packaging's word for it. It is just like people buying name brand painkillers. By law, the generic brand is exactly the same.
@@maplecinna3979 I agree for the most part, but I am getting my masters in Biochemical Engineering and one of the labs we did was finding differences between generic and name brand and some generic medicine had less active ingredient or vice-versa. It was always lower than what was advertised (probably as a safety provision) but yeah same ingredients just sometimes less accurate doses. I also just think people often hear something and don't think about it as others do. They just hear it and forget about it instead of asking questions or going through it in their head as to why something is the way it is.
edit: To clarify we did percent dose of what was advertised not just a 200mg vs 150mg or something like that. If generic had less per mg number of pills, we corrected for that.
@@monkeyplayer1 I've noticed perceptible difference between name-brand and generic in spite of identical ingredient amounts. I can't say which is "better" or achieved appropriate goals, but I can say clearly that name-brand had more pronounced, "sharper" effects (which in personal opinion were not pleasant, and harder to recover from. results were excessive dizziness and disorientation over common cold and influenza)
doodoostickstain yeah that is kind of what I was getting at. Often times the name brands will have some, well basically catalysts that some people might be more sensitive to or use different fillers. Some have a sugar coating that is often made of lactose, which if someone is really lactose intolerant then that little bit can upset their stomach. I think we really need some reform about medicine in the U.S. a lot of the “inactive” ingredients we found weren’t on the label.
@@monkeyplayer1 i salute you and your study! I'd also like to see medicines more scrutinized, and appreciate your work. glad somebody noticed this, because people look at me like i'm strange when i tell them there's definitely something different regardless of what the ingredient list says. (note: i've also learned to take everything in half-doses. recommended shuts me down, and i don't bother with medicine unless it's really bad)
I really enjoyed your videos and know you are spot on. I can tell you are working extra hard to help those that just don't get it. I have been trying to teach my wife how the house thermostat works, but because she understands how the hot and cold work in a car, she cannot separate that. There were times at 3am and feel like the house is freezing and go check the thermostat and it is set to 60. She thinks the lower the number the faster and colder it will become when she sets it. I told her that if she's cold or hot, she can move the heat or cold up or down two digits and no more. That worked. Now I have a nice app run thermostat and can change the temp from our bedroom - finally, I'm not having to run to adjust it at 3am! Long story to tell you that you're not alone :)
Everything you’ve said makes sense to me. I never ever observed the 1500w labeling on all space heaters sold. You’ve reenforced what I’ve always known; marketers and advertisers are lairs ! Thanks for teaching me something.
Four ninety-nine percent of companies I take the advertised capabilities of a thing Isaiah maximum possible performance and I assumed that it is going to be worse probably with some incredibly misleading information trying to make you think that their product is obviously superior to the competitor even though they're practically the same thing just with a different brand name
You are stronger than me. I was happy uploading low view videos back in the day, then one day, someone got angry at my content & started leaving hurtful comments. So, that is where that dream died for me.
Glad you were able to move on & continue doing what you like.
lol were you homeschooled or something 😂🤣
@@executive9893 no
just one jerk's opinion
fcuk 'em 😎👍
that alone would be motivation to keep going, just to piss em off
@@Bill-lt5qf I'm sorry to hear people were assholes to you.
Don't read the comments. If you really care about the views, look at the statistics.
I don't care about anything (rarely upload anything) and if someone comments something, I just leave it. Annoying at first, but funny to read later.
I think the marketing wank is awesome. What they actually mean is this...
It's a Room Heater that is Small sized.
It's a Room Heater that is Medium sized.
It's a Room Heater that is Large sized.
They are only referring to the footprint of the device and not it's application.
The heat does spread out but low velocity air raises to heat the air at the ceiling first and then slowly fills the space downward. Higher velocity air movement will push the heat out farther along the floor before convection moves it upward. The longer you keep warm air moving in the space you are in will keep you more comfortable than having most of the heat up above you. A larger heater will typically heat a larger volume of air but to a lower temperture, less likely to sindge your kitty cat.
@577AllWell Once you hit equilibrium, they will all be the same unless, as a cooler room means faster convection, and a wamer more even room will be slower to heat. You would need a constant stream of swirling air, like a large fan in a large room, to see a huge difference. So if you have tall ceilings or a large room and heater with a strong fan, you are correct...HOWEVER, the smaller models always have strong fans as the smaller elements will run hotter at 1500 watts, and need the extra cooling to retain that rating without burning out (a rating the marketers rely on to keep pace with the competition).
Sooo, the larger units (like the large convection unit on his desk, or the oil one in his experiment) usually don't have a fan, while the smaller cheaper ones have a powerful one. Generally speaking, you still get better heat from a small cheap unit.
In my experience, people with larger rooms have more money to burn and thus burn it more stupidly. So it's a rich tax, and for that it's awesome.
@@MrCorrectify ... I suspect you're correct.. However, it's super simple to fix. Cheap heater plus cheap room fan. Boom.
Surely you're not that stupid. They even give you a picture on the side of the box to show the recommended room size, moo ice cream. ..
I watched both this and your original video, both of which are very good. I agree completely. Most people just don't understand enough about how the world works. One of my bug bears is people not understanding thermostats. "I turned it up so the place will warm up quicker". NO, IT WON'T! You will just have to get up at some point and reduce the setting because you are now too hot. The whole *point* of a thermostat is to regulate temperature. That's its job. Grrr!
With the minor exception that there are variable power “things” now. My desk heater has two wattage settings (low/high) which isn’t exciting since I have to set that myself. Same with my oil heater, it’s a low/medium/high (high=low+medium) element, and the thermostat turns it all on or off. Boring.
My portable A/Cs use dynamic compressors that step up the farther away they are from the target temperature, so they do in fact blow colder air if you “crank them”. Except that the time when people do that is when there is a large gap anyway, so the A/C has already got that covered.
And no, I don’t mean they ramp up the fan (although that too), the compressor itself steps up and down, and rarely cuts out completely (you hear the “thud” when it happens), the electricity goes from somewhere around 50w (fan on low, no compressor) to maybe 300w with the compressor on low, up to 1300w when it’s running full speed, with relatively smooth steps between. I assure you it does not have 1000w of fan. It does a pretty decent job of keeping the room comfortable without the too-hot, too-cold, and it basically eliminates short cycling (actually it has a short-cycle limiter too, even if you unplug it, it won’t start up the compressor immediately after it was cut off).
But this is absolutely not what most people think when they “crank it”
I get your original point, you're testing the marketing claim of small vs large room, not the heaters themselves
And in a small room he showed the heater claimed to be for small rooms was better.
Ha, the marketing was clearly debunked there...
@@JNCressey I never said it was debunked. I said he was testing their claims. The small heater may have been better in the small room, but that's because a small fan heater is far better for that application than a column heater.
@@JordyValentine I think that is exactly it, and I think that is the only thing that would put any credibility to the small room claim. In the small room spreading the heat with the air movement by the fan will feel like heating up the room a lot faster, allthough the larger non fan device puts out the same mount of heat. Having both put out the same amount of heat I think a good comparison test would be more like having them running for e.g. 24 hours, heating up the space from the same start temperature and logging the temperature over time. I bet it will again show that both put the same amount of heat into the room and after some time temperature stays the same with both.
In a larger room only thing I can imagine is that the air movement by the fan has less effect, but over time the heating result ( the amount heat put into the room) is still the same.
Of course 1,500 watts of energy is 1,500 watts of energy. Sure the unwashed masses don't get this and hence the marketing people have to be creative to differentiate their products.Problem is though a room in a house is not a calorimeter so the very notion of "heat of the room" is flawed. How many points in the room is the temperature being measured at and No, there's no certainty all the air will eventually be at the same temperature.Reason the oil filled convection heater can do a poor job of heating a room is first its heat goes up to the ceiling. How much heat is lost through the ceiling depends on how well it's insulated. Eventually convection from the heater draws that air down to the floor to cycle through the radiator again. The fan heater first blows it's hot air over the floor so at floor level it likely will make the air hotter than the convection heater.I do hear comments about some heaters "not drying the air" but that's also nonsense. Raise the temperature of a volume of air by the same amount and the relative humidity goes down by the same amount. The only exception is a heater that's burning hydrocarbons and sending some of the combustion products into the room. With that there is water as one of the combustion products so they will not dry the room. Problem that may arise is condensation on cold surfaces.
Not energy, power. Energy would be Watt*hours.
Yes, you are correct, my bad.Should say though it's watts*time. The "time" can typically be seconds or hours.
Hot air rises, so wouldn't the air from the fan eventually start floating upwards?
Yes the hot air from the fan heater will eventually rise. Before it rises it will have heated the objects closest to the floor. To look at this another way which will make you the warmest, the fan heater on the floor blowing warm air onto you or the fan heater atop a ladder just below the ceiling?What's being ignored here is the room is "leaky" ( it's a cold room) so a lot of the thermal energy is escaping and it's almost certainly not escaping through the walls, floor and ceiling by the same amount. Maybe after 30 minutes the room is in a steady state but that does not mean all parts of the room are at the same temperature.Finally I'd point out that the best way to heat a house is with in-floor radiant heating. I'll admit the first time I heard this I had doubts but thinking beyond the basic physics I understood why.
Imagine sticking a heater in the corner of a huge ballroom and waiting until it reaches a steady state. The air around it is very hot and immediately adjacent to the cold walls, so energy is lost rapidly even though the room isn't that warm. On the other hand, imagine sticking it in the middle of the room. The edges of the room are not that hot, so energy is not being lost that rapidly even though the room is warm. So even though the power through the heater is the same, the temperature of the room is not. Seems pretty straightforward to me.
This is also one advantage of oil-filled radiators. Because their power output is more consistent, there is smaller hysteresis in the cycles, even though it repeatedly turns on and off. So it really might require less power in the long run to heat a room this way as compared to turning a heater on and off completely. (That doesn't dispute anything in this video though, because this applies equally to small and large rooms.)
It’s the first thing we were taught when we become an electrician and it’s called schematics a 10 x 10 room put 1000 W heater in it will heat that room in 10 minutes. Put a 500 W heater in it and it will heat it in 20 minutes. Thus the room gets warmer quicker but takes the exact same amount of Hydro.
I agree with you, but with one small thing, during 20 minutes there is more heat loss from the walls of the room than 10 mins, so the same heat energy that you give would make the room a bit colder during the whole 20 minutes on average than the 10 minutes, but if you let the 10 min room for an additional 10 mins with out the heater they should equal out, (if we disregard the fact that more temp difference makes energy transfer faster)
@@hamoonhassan2573 And that's why the people who say, "I can't afford to tear out my walls and put in better (or the first, for old houses) insulation" but also plug in an electric heater to help their under-rated home heating system and then complain about the bills make me scratch my head. - - - If you're renting, I get it. But if you own, INSULATE!
Buy the smallest, cheapest space heater you can find. It will give the most heat for the amount of electricity used.
If i need to heat the workplace: electric fans and resistive load. The best, by far, they can really blow the heat far away from the unit and heat up the room in minutes. If i have to live in the room: passive, oil filled electric radiator. No other choice is as comfortable. The stable heat they give WAY outweigh the speed that a fan heater has. You don't want the fan kicking in every 15 minutes or have the room lose heat when you briefly open a window or a door..
But: passive heating needs air circulation, convection alone will not do it. It does not need to be much, just that the air actually moves. The large oil filled radiator has a HUGE surface area so even a little bit of added circulation will make it act faster.
One idea for a video: my parents house here in Finland has used heat exchanger since '84. It is passive, my uncle actually designed it and it can heat -25C incoming air with +20C outgoing and get up to 17C when it comes in the interior. That is one MASSIVE heat source that is too often just ventilated out.
Yes! Heat exchangers should be mandatory! If houses are sealed and well insulated, with a heat exchanger on the ventilation system, you don't need to put in that much energy to keep your house warm. Blowing out 25°C air from the bathroom and then sucking in -20°C air in through the vent is just helping the crows. My dad built a two stage system with a passive heat exchanger first and then a heat pump placed after it. The heat exchanger does most of the work, and then the heat pump finishes the job. After the heat pump, our exhaust air is often at or below zero degrees even though the outside temperature is above freezing. So our 25°C exhaust air is cooled down to about 0°C, and the fresh air that enters the house is heated to up to 50°C, depending on the outside temperature, of course
@@SuperSiggiboy agree, but they are called HRV (heat recovery ventilators/ventilation)... they do exist, and i agree they should be part of building code
sorry for an ignorant question: what are they exchanging the heat from? I'm pretty sure my house doesn't have any significant heat source that's being vented (in Japan), and likewise my parents' house (in the US).
this sounds like a great idea, so I want to know more.
@@thoperSought it's done through phase change of liquids to gases. If you reverse an air conditioner, where you are essentially cooling the outside and the condenser is on the inside dumping the heat into the house. As long as the outside temp is higher than the refrigerant it can take BTUs from the air and move them into the house. And these refrigerants are super cold. I live in Arizona where it gets hot (50C) and I've seen frost form on AC units that need servicing and standing next to the outside unit dumping the heat outside is like hell. So if the process is reversed then it can heat a home. My knowledge is very limited but I think I got the basics down and I'm sure others will explain it better, but I just remember that there is only heat.. add heat or take heat. Look up vapor compression refrigeration. Have a great day!
By that measure, having a ton of water in a room that is heated by fish tank heaters and have fans blowing over them is the best way to heat a room because the additional thermal mass makes the room's temperature more stable. I don't disagree, but I think a smarter electric fan heater is still way more practical. That, and you might not want the thermal mass because the room will be slow to warm up and slow to cool down. If you're not in the room that's being heated, that energy is wasted as the room cools down.
Having even basic PID control of fan speed and heater output would allow the fan to ramp up and down and the heating coils to ramp up and down, as they are needed. This could better control the room's temperature without wasting energy in an empty room.
Also, if we're talking about efficiency, a heat pump is way more efficient than any of the above options.
Heaters seem to be a hot topic lately.
Indeed but thankfully it's just people blowing hot air.
Wamp wamp.
Well yes but the coolest appliance ever are still the freezers...
Get out
*punalert*
Do a video on: "Which heaters heat haters the most" :-)
Keep up the good work.
You shouldn't worry much about like/dislike ratios. Just keep providing well-researched informative videos and nevermind the naysaying nitwits. Those people are _the very reason_ marketing jargon works. They fall for dubious claims and marketing wankery.
From what I understand the like/dislike ratio is unimportant to the almighty Algorithm. RUclips sees the votes and comments as viewer engagement and that's what counts. It cares about bringing viewers back to watch more ads. Viewer engagement shows that viewers get involoved and invest time. Many studies have shown once a person has invested a certain amount of time in an activity, they're reluctant to give up as they see it as a waste of their time. How many times have you got to just over half way in a bad movie and thought, well I've got this far, I may as well finish it now. It might even pick up a bit now. Only to to sit there at the end of the movie and think 'WTF did I just watch?'
@@maxximumb My understanding is that the engagements aren't considered by the algorithm either, for the same reason why the ratio and total count doesn't matter; it can be easily manipulated. Likes/dislikes are mainly used by the RUclipsr and viewers to see how well the video was received.
Wankery is now my new favorite (favourite) word! Thanks!
You are so correct. I went through this years ago (as a homeowner trying to save money). I basically came to the same conclusion. Here is one addition. The best way to heat a room is very quickly. You must heat the room up faster than it is loosing heat, or you are wasting your money. Like trying to blow up a balloon with a hole in it. That's why I think the best heater is the one with the strongest fan (highest cfm). Also loved your vid on those portable AC units with the vent that hooks to the window. Very helpful.
back in the 70's our incandescent bulbs "60-100 watts" were keeping the rooms warm as well :) Dad had a 150watt three way bulb in his lamp next to the sofa so he could read...it was always warm during the winter :)
You can still buy headlamps today
Now that making or importing incandescent light bulbs is effectively outlawed in Europe, there's a company importing them and labelling them as "Heatball" space heaters. Authorities tried to stop them but they fought it through in court and won.
Thanks, you just saved me a ton of money. I now just use my toaster. And to prevent that annoying cycle off feature, I just jam a butter knife in there. ;-) Bonus: Bet you can't make toast with a space heater.
You're not going to be able to make toast very much longer with that toaster either if you keep that up.
Electric oven at 350°, bottom-hinged door partially open, box fan on the kitchen counter blowing sideways across the gap. I heated a whole floor of my house that way for two days in January, while the furnace was on the fritz.
My feet were cold in bed so I just lit the end of my bed on fire. It worked great, quickly heated my whole house, and as an added bonus now I don't ever get cold feet.
Well, you actually can make toast with one of those old all-metal, red-hot element radiant heaters!
@@joesterling4299 that works
ITS A WORLD WIDE CONSPIRACY!! im in argentina and all of them work on a max of 2000W its crazy the prize differences between them, thanks for the knowledge
I just love the reply that "just because it heats the air better it's not a better heater".
Rationalisation in action.
I’ve had to break it to several people that ceiling fans don’t actually cool the room, and just make it feel cooler to your skin. They would leave all the fans on the house on while they are out to keep it cool.
It’s important to know how things work.
Oh boy 😂
Arguably its a bit more complicated than that. It depends on where the fans are pulling air from and to. A duct fan from a cool basement into a living space can definitely lower temperatures.
@@dancooper6002 well that’s not a ceiling fan then is it?
@@justins8802 In some cases a ceiling fan has a similar effect though. For example, someone might leave a ceiling fan on to draw hot air up and create a lower pressure zone which draws air in from a basement.
@dancooper6002 Take it from someone who grew up with ceiling fans. They force hot air (which naturally rises to the top of a room) downward; effectively making the space hotter but the movement of air against the skin makes it "feel" cooler: Similar to winter temperature and the "real feel" being colder because of wind chill.
What I found in my cousin's house last winter was that by combining a space heater with a ceiling fan, I was able to raise the temperature of the room faster (There was a thermostat that immediately showed the temp rise as soon as I turned on the fan). Really cool experiment.
I seem to remember a news report, that tested several designs, and they used a thermal camera in their tests. They were also questioning the fact that these units were all 1500 watts but had differeng price points. The thermal camera showed more how the heater moved air around, than what temperature the room would get to given enough time. In each case the thermal camera indicated a hot spot where the heater was, the heat would rise to the ceiling in some manner and spread from there. It would take various amounts of time for the temperature to stabalize, with the larger forced air heater working the fastest and the radiative heaters the slowest. Therefore if you are going to only be in the room for a couple of hours the radiator would be useless.
One thing I want to say, that neither the news nor your channel covered, was a ceiling fan/heater combination. Yes I understand this is a permanent installation, but my thoughts are the heat has to work its way to the ceiling before it spreads. What if the heating element were closer to the ceiling?
I'm late to the party but he did mention it at around 20:00
Well youd be surprised how much air moves through these things even without a fan. One could probably move an entire bedroom of air within just a few minutes.
Best answer is a heated floor. Installation is a bee with an itch. I know, I put one in at a friend's house (in his master bathroom). On a cold Winter's morn, step out of the shower onto a warm floor. Yay!
If I ever get around to building my own house from the foundation up, that's the route to take throughout the entire house. I might still do the garage and bathrooms if we get a pre-owned house.
@@frederickevans4113 I am building a 2500 square foot shop and plan on installing in floor heat. This is Minnesota and the is nothing worse than having to crawl under you vehicle to fix it... in December or later. But on a heated floor it's business as usual. And... with floor drains this is a great place to park your winter vehicle and let all of the snow melt off!
I can just feel your frustration through the whole video. And coming from an engineering background, I completely understand and agree with what you're saying. Lots of people just don't understand thermodynamics, and the incredibly long time constant for heating systems.
As an electrician I was asked by a kindly woman how she could reduce her electric bill. (She had resistive electric furnace) she told me she had reduced her light bulbs to 15w and it had not changed her bill. ( pre-LED times) I told her that the previous 60w lamps were putting out 188 BTUs
of heat, and the 15w lamps were putting out only 47 BTUs. This means her electric furnace had to run a tiny bit longer to make up for the heat that the lights weren't producing. Net savings either way 0%. Same KWH either way produces the same heat.
You will always get someone who thinks he knows it all and will try and contradict anything you say.
I find your posts extremely educational and informative and that comes from someone who worked in the consumer electronics and electrical trade.
Keep them coming.
I've been saying they are all the same for years and EVERYONE argues with me. Thank you for a logical argument. It makes me hopeful 😊
Ive always wanted to know the btu output of the heaters. Thats how id like to buy them. But watching this video (and the one on the main channel) helps understand that 1500 watts is 1500 watts. Thank you.
Well the BTU on the box there is technically actually meaning BTU/hr as it represents power not energy in this case. 1 BTU = 1055.06 J so 1 BTU/hr = 0.293 J/s = 0.293 W thus why the BTU rating is a bit over 3 times the wattage as 1 W = 3.412 BTU/hr.
Having worked in cold offices for many years I can say with certainty the best supplemental heater is one that blows hot air directly at you. It's possible to be perfectly comfortable even in a very cold room if the hot air is coming from a fan pointed right at your skin.
Those tiny heaters are a gosh darn game changer honestly
but they're small so my brain can't comprehend how they produce so much heat
@@fisheatsyourhead They are actively cooled by the fan, so they can make the heating element hotter without the unit overheating.
You are very patient and generous. An interesting human trait, to generalize, is that smarter people tend to make the mistake of assuming others are able to reason as well. As such, I simply do not engage dumb commenters on youtube. You can tell by the nature of the comments the difference between someone who is merely ignorant, but wanting to learn, vs the obstinant dummies. I patiently explain to the former, but do not waste time on the latter.
When my central heat broke, two little space heaters did the job for my entire 1400 sq ft house. My electric bill has never been higher
I myself put a box-fan on low behind one of those oil-heaters and it was 10x better because it no longer got hot enough to kick itself on and off. Yes I agree, 1500-watts is 1500-watts. If you have a 1500-watt PC that is actively using 1500-watts, it's heating the room it's in the same amount as the fan-driven heater you've shown here.
How about these tv-shop heaters that are sold by "look, it only draws 250W!!! and saves energy"? But they forgot to tell you that it only heats as a 250W heater...
I think people just don't care or understand about physics. If the package looks or says it's better then it has to be better... Same with the price.
Petri Haak ...yea, so true....the Spinal Tap “it goes to ELEVEN” syndrome.
I stopped using my $45 digital controlled heater because I did not like that it was always using high heat when maintaining temperature. You could select low/high for continuous heat, bypassing the thermostat. I went back to using a cheap mechanical controlled heater, which I could select low heat and still use the thermostat. Problem I was having with the digital is that the two bathrooms share a 15 amp breaker, so when both heaters are on low it works fine. But when one is digital and uses high heat, it would trip the breaker frequently. leading to cold bathrooms in the morning.
@@mastro4065 And there's one more... EEVBlog #1186
But market capitalism does _make_ one better. Demand determines what is better or more valuable, since there are no objective criterias for the "betterness" of a product in itself. By thinking that the lower-wattage heater is a better purchase, we effectively make it better, hence justify its price. Value is determined by the Market itself.
Never mind that heat is a fundamental need for survival and that people will generally opt to buy what is available and affordable to them instead of opting for abstaining from buying into marketed products and therefore freezing to death.
I find your passion shown here adorable.
Thanks for making these most interesting videos for us.
The reason to buy a physically bigger heater is they're quieter.
I am sorry people are giving you a hard time. Some people just like to stir up trouble. I just like to get along in peace. ~Cindy! :)
CindyBradyTooh
Huh?
Surely, a quieter heater would be more benefit in a smaller room, not a larger one.
@@Torahboy1 nah. noise is noise. you want to be closer to the source of heat anyway, reading books n stuff listening to the wind outside in a snow storm.
This is my most favourite thumbnail ever. I'm glad I've laid my eyes upon it.