I used to ship out here on the big ships its like a dream now .. wish I could meet all my shipmates again from the"( pool) in Salford.. I miss those days God bless us all ... now live Australia .. but my heart is in Salford and were' sailing today lol (my dream) mike (Cairns) ..
Clock one of the Guinness boats at 32 seconds in! Note the Harp, and the hull colours, reminiscent of a pint of Guiness. How utterly civilised. IIRC they switched to road until UK stuff was brewed at Park Royal, London. We saw road vehicles from Liverpool bringing the stuff from Dublin down the East Lancs road every Sunday when out for a jolly with the old folks. A useful asset squandered at the first twitch of a recession, upon the altar of Urban Chic Living. A foretaste as it turned out. Manchester. Bah. Vandals.
Modern ships are wider with flat keels and draw less draught than before. If the locks on the canal were widened and traffic was only one way in convoy like the Suez Canal, Manchester could have some very large ships right to its docks. 80 to 100,000 tonners. But why? Containers can be taken off at Liverpool quickly and railroaded to anywhere. I could only see Manchester Docks being viable when updated to accommodate bulk carriers to supply industry. The raw materials for manufacturing. But Manchester does not do that any more.
The canal was predicted to be a white elephant and that did happen after about 80 years. 20 years after this film was made the docks were empty and redundant. At the time of the canal proposal in the 19th Century, it was proposed that Manchester has three of four docks at Eastham on the Mersey estuary with their own railway to many terminals around Manchester. If that was the case it still would be operative today as the Eastham docks would have been updated to accommodate larger ships. It also would have been cheaper to build. Passengers could also use the rail lines. Hamburg is 60 miles from the sea via a dredged river, Manchester is 46. Hamburg is fully operative as it supply's many parts of north Germany. Hamburg is a large important commercial port city, whereas Manchester is not. If Manchester was that important, like Hamburg is, Manchester Docks and the canal would be operative today. Manchester has large hills to one side restricting access to the city, unlike Hamburg. Manchester attempting to complete with a large deep water port at Liverpool was madness and in the long term Manchester Docks were bound to fail. Saying that the canal today is seriously underused. Companies could locate to its banks and laybys for ships cut into the canal. Fiddler's Ferry power station could have a tunnel under the Mersey and ship canal with conveyor belts to take coal from a ships coal or wood pellet berth to the power station opposite, instead of using rail wagons to get coal to the station. Why isn't the canal promoted? The film is wrong. Liverpool's port fees were not a problem, it was the inflated transport charges of the railways that forced the issue to build a canal. Massive Liverpool always had surplus capacity which was negotiable.
***** I know it is a simplification, but containerization wiped out many ports around the world.. I think there was a lot of decline going on in the UK in the 1960s-70s anyway, and that must have combined with it. Always been interesting to me as to why Germany's industries (cars etc.) prevailed, yet the UK's declined. Perhaps, they wanted the port closer to Manchester initially because they could control it better (ports are corrupt?) and employ the locals? or perhaps the process was corrupt itself?
mebeasensei Containerisation wiped out a lot warehousing for sure. The stuffing and stripping was moved to inland terminals for political reasons. NYC never moved operations inland. The new Thames container port does all at the port to reduce rail costs to inland terminals. There are signs that these operations are moving back to Liverpool. Not all cargo is containers. Liverpool can handle any cargo, unlike dedicated container ports. Ports are corrupt? I can't see where. Manchester was a manufacturing city (the world's first) wanting to be a commercial city like Liverpool. Ports were very important cities and natural commercial cities, and still are. Liverpool was richer than London at one point. So Manchester made its own port to be more commercial. Well, Liverpool shipping lines assisted with the finance of the canal. The port initially was underused and only Liverpool lines saved it by using it with some guaranteeing use. Thatcher started the offshoring of British industry. Germany valued its manufacturing. Modern UK car plants that had investment prevailed (Ford and Vauxhall - all foreign owned). Where Thatcher had control she closed down. She could have used North Sea oil revenues to invest in industry, but squandered it for redundancy payments and the dole. And used it, and North Sea gas for power stations to eliminate the coal industry.
I used to ship out here on the big ships its like a dream now .. wish I could meet all my shipmates again from the"( pool) in Salford.. I miss those days God bless us all ...
now live Australia .. but my heart is in Salford and were' sailing today lol (my dream) mike (Cairns) ..
Fantastic vid.....I used to go around the docks on my bike when I was a kid taking photos..I was fascinated by it and still am...
Clock one of the Guinness boats at 32 seconds in! Note the Harp, and the hull colours, reminiscent of a pint of Guiness. How utterly civilised. IIRC they switched to road until UK stuff was brewed at Park Royal, London. We saw road vehicles from Liverpool bringing the stuff from Dublin down the East Lancs road every Sunday when out for a jolly with the old folks.
A useful asset squandered at the first twitch of a recession, upon the altar of Urban Chic Living. A foretaste as it turned out. Manchester. Bah. Vandals.
Great it of spotting I had not noticed the Guinness ship
Yes, great spot!
My mother lived by the docks on Cromwell St. lived many a time
Gonna look up Cromwell St on my old map. My mum born and bred at Carlton St. Dad at Lord Duncan St.
@@redtobertshateshandles I wish I had more pictures. Too if street was a dance hall and we caught the bus to Blackpool there
Got to love Victorian engineering. Incredible stuff, and it's still in working order. I wonder if it'll still be working 100 years from now?
really interesting stuff. i remember the docks being like that when i was a kid.
Yep, I remember all that,Salford
Far far better now than it was in the Docks days,still get the same buzz and lovely to walk around in the summer.
Classic ..thanks for sharing
Ahh. The good old days. The swing bridge at 7.00 min. There used to be one like that in Footscray over THe marybyrnong at Footscray Rd.
When you look at it now, what do we have? SHOPPING! ZZZZZZzzzzZZZZZzzzzz
Hi Nigel, I'm producing a v. short film about MediaCity and would like to use some of this as archive. Do you know its origins and ownership?
Sorry I can't remember it was a old VHS that I was asked to copy as the owner was moving over to DVD
Nigel
@@scoutholmeif you have the whole thing I’d love to see it
Modern ships are wider with flat keels and draw less draught than before. If the locks on the canal were widened and traffic was only one way in convoy like the Suez Canal, Manchester could have some very large ships right to its docks. 80 to 100,000 tonners. But why? Containers can be taken off at Liverpool quickly and railroaded to anywhere. I could only see Manchester Docks being viable when updated to accommodate bulk carriers to supply industry. The raw materials for manufacturing. But Manchester does not do that any more.
Now the BBC and a load of yuppy flats?
communism the only real deadly virus that kills people .
The canal was predicted to be a white elephant and that did happen after about 80 years. 20 years after this film was made the docks were empty and redundant. At the time of the canal proposal in the 19th Century, it was proposed that Manchester has three of four docks at Eastham on the Mersey estuary with their own railway to many terminals around Manchester. If that was the case it still would be operative today as the Eastham docks would have been updated to accommodate larger ships. It also would have been cheaper to build. Passengers could also use the rail lines.
Hamburg is 60 miles from the sea via a dredged river, Manchester is 46. Hamburg is fully operative as it supply's many parts of north Germany. Hamburg is a large important commercial port city, whereas Manchester is not. If Manchester was that important, like Hamburg is, Manchester Docks and the canal would be operative today. Manchester has large hills to one side restricting access to the city, unlike Hamburg. Manchester attempting to complete with a large deep water port at Liverpool was madness and in the long term Manchester Docks were bound to fail.
Saying that the canal today is seriously underused. Companies could locate to its banks and laybys for ships cut into the canal. Fiddler's Ferry power station could have a tunnel under the Mersey and ship canal with conveyor belts to take coal from a ships coal or wood pellet berth to the power station opposite, instead of using rail wagons to get coal to the station. Why isn't the canal promoted?
The film is wrong. Liverpool's port fees were not a problem, it was the inflated transport charges of the railways that forced the issue to build a canal. Massive Liverpool always had surplus capacity which was negotiable.
***** I know it is a simplification, but containerization wiped out many ports around the world.. I think there was a lot of decline going on in the UK in the 1960s-70s anyway, and that must have combined with it. Always been interesting to me as to why Germany's industries (cars etc.) prevailed, yet the UK's declined. Perhaps, they wanted the port closer to Manchester initially because they could control it better (ports are corrupt?) and employ the locals? or perhaps the process was corrupt itself?
mebeasensei
Containerisation wiped out a lot warehousing for sure. The stuffing and stripping was moved to inland terminals for political reasons. NYC never moved operations inland. The new Thames container port does all at the port to reduce rail costs to inland terminals. There are signs that these operations are moving back to Liverpool. Not all cargo is containers. Liverpool can handle any cargo, unlike dedicated container ports.
Ports are corrupt? I can't see where.
Manchester was a manufacturing city (the world's first) wanting to be a commercial city like Liverpool. Ports were very important cities and natural commercial cities, and still are. Liverpool was richer than London at one point. So Manchester made its own port to be more commercial.
Well, Liverpool shipping lines assisted with the finance of the canal. The port initially was underused and only Liverpool lines saved it by using it with some guaranteeing use.
Thatcher started the offshoring of British industry. Germany valued its manufacturing. Modern UK car plants that had investment prevailed (Ford and Vauxhall - all foreign owned). Where Thatcher had control she closed down. She could have used North Sea oil revenues to invest in industry, but squandered it for redundancy payments and the dole. And used it, and North Sea gas for power stations to eliminate the coal industry.