I agree waiting 17 minutes was a totally heartless and scummy thing to do but he wasn't her caretaker. Sarah Lynn was in her 30s, she made the choice to do that last bit of heroin
Literally involuntary manslaughter, well I mean kinda voluntary but you know what I mean. If you don't call for help and they die, that's manslaughter.
@@user-pi3hd2bt3f That's a scummy thing to say. She was clean for months until Bojack, her basically father figure, called her to go on a fucking *BENDER.* She was sexually abused by her father, Bojack traumatized and helped her become an addict, and then you're gonna end this with "well she chose to do that last bit of heroine so..." oh, fuck off. She was young, traumatized, and constantly exploited. He *WAS* her caretaker, he made it that way. He had power over her, too much power, and that goes hand in hand with the Zerox of a Zerox episode. He has power over women, and he had power over her since she was 3!!!! Remember that!? 3!!!!! Not only did he meet her when she was 3 and worked on a show with her, when she became an adult they had sex. I don't care what you say, that's gross as fuck and explains a lot in itself.
It’s the waiting to call emergency services the second he saw she was unconscious he should have called, I agree she’s an adult and made her choice, but there’s a solid chance that him waiting those 17min were the difference between her living and dying
@@audreyjones3553paramedics have a “Don’t ask” policy anyway, so he could have easily tell them nothing about how it happened. And even if he did called immediately 911 and she died anyway, at least he would have shown basic moral decency.
Oh man, it hurts when Bojack is talking about Sarah Lynn and says "She wasn't like those other girls" and then it cuts to Princess Carolyn. It really hits the nail in the coffin on the fact he never valued any of the things she did for him.
I still can't believe Bojack was so hurt by Charlotte's rejection, he almost sleeps with HER DAUGHTER. The victim mentality of this man is on some new levels. I fully agree with your #1 spot.
I know you had to cut it down to 17 worst things to fit the motif of "17 minutes Bojack waited before calling for help" and "17 year old girl he nearly slept with"... But NOT putting sleeping with Sarah Lynn on the list anywhere is WILD. They both consistently reaffirm throughout the show that he's like a father figure to her, she was living in his house, and she was on way too many drugs to properly consent. There were so many reasons that it was his responsibility to say no to her, but he doesn't even attempt to rebuff her.
this!!! i thought this was at least top 5-3 i was really gagged that it wasn’t even mentioned because bojack being the father figure and her trusted adult from her early days made it all worse
@@undefinedfuck1301 What I was getting at is Sarah Lynn was both a victim, and abuser at the same time. Which, yes, that makes it worse. (Edit: [Unrelated] this also confirms one other thing… BoJack is a pansexual.
Gonna have to disagree that Princess Carolyn bore any responsibility for BoJack’s pill problem. He should have stuck with the original plan to have a stunt performer but he cancelled it out of hubris. Princess Carolyn was within her rights to take time off and do something for herself for once and she had fulfilled her obligations related to that day of shooting before she left. She is not duty bound to disrupt her own business to bail BoJack out of yet another bad decision.
Why are so many people blaming a child for coming onto him? He was the adult. He was the family friend. He was the chaperone. She could’ve said no? He could have and should have. It’s not like he slipped on a banana peel and his underwear came off. He had the responsibility of saying no as the person in the position of power and he chose not to.
More then likely weirdos who have some “controversial” thoughts they aren’t incline to come in terms with yet. Sure, Penny shouldn’t have kept perusing but at the end of the night…. Who is the grown horse in his 50s?
my biggest thing in this whole situation is..Penny was 100% sober while Bojack was wasted. when charlotte bursts into the boat, bojack isnt even touching penny, while she’s there straddling him trying to undress him
You make a lot of good points but.. I really think you should have at least mentioned Bojack having sex with Sarah Lynn. I don't care if they were both drunk and high. He had known her since she was THREE YEARS OLD.
The Sarah Lynn situation is overall the worst vs Penny when put into context. Yes the waiting 17 minutes is already very bad. But when you also consider BoJack breaking Sarah Lynn’s sobriety, only reconnecting with her at the height of her popularity to promote his failing tv show, instilling the toxic “don’t stop dancing” attitude into her that was imprinted onto him, accidentally getting her drunk on his alcohol as a child and kickstarting her life-long addiction issues, and of course, having sex with his self proclaimed life long daughter figure, it’s undeniable. And through all that, we still want to believe that despite how he’s wronged her, he does love her and wants to do right by her. He says he does. But BoJack waiting those 17 minutes to save his ass, over possibly saving the person he says he loves the most, cements how abhorrent his actions are. What happened with Penny was horrible, but the effect BoJack had on Sarah Lynn lasted her entire life, right until the very end.
Oh my dad at the end asked 'Does this come with a noose so I can hang myself?' And that is because he is a Bojack, but, he hasn't had his season finale of getting better/moving on so the whole show just depressed him. Which is unfortunate because I hoped he'd use it to inspire change. Smh.
@@borochifox I mean why would a show basically representing your father make him want to change at all? All it's gonna do is make him want to kill himself. Get him therapy or some shit.
Bojacks parents truly did create a monster with their toxicity. Yea Bojacks responsible for his own actions, but they were the ones who fed him the idea that being miserable is the only way to live.
Tbh, it’s a miracle BoJack didn’t become a serial killer. Even though his acting career & fame were a double edge sword, it gave him a genuine outlet for his aggression, frustration, and pain. His career may have saved himself, and others from way worse inner demons lurking deep under his surface. Demons he had a hard enough time controlling as is.
Bojacks addiction to pain pills after the stunt gone wrong wasn’t pc’s fault at all. She’s not his mother. He is not her responsibility. She deserves to have her own life and for the first time in YEARS when she finally puts herself first an accident happens. And to have the audacity to then blame HER for it shows a complete lack of understanding in their relationship dynamic
While I agree that it’s not her fault I do find PC pushing him to do a stupid show that she was willing to risk her career on and ask him to join after the fact. Only for her to never show up and focus on a baby after getting a show together was a weird writing choice that annoyed me. But no, the pain pills thing is ridiculous to blame her, he’s a grown ass man and if he doesn’t mind saying penny was an adult then he should act like an adult.
@@joro8693I don't think it was weird at all, it's all part of her story and her desperation at the time. The show was her baby until she had a chance to get an actual baby.
I don’t think they want you to think Radcliffe is a bad guy more that he doesn’t get the whole “hey you’re THAT guy” thing as the dude who played Harry Potter. Him knowing random stage hands but not Bojack exemplifies this to me
Bojack seemed like a cautionary tale to me, like “this is how not to act.” Or something like “this is why you should go to therapy and get help as early as possible so this doesn’t become you.”
yeah, same. i did some bad tings in my late teens, nothing as horrendous as in this show, but still bad. makes me think about who i could have become if i hadnt gone to therapy, and i am going back to therapy just to make absolutely sure i am as healthy as i can be. anyone can become their own worst enemy, but it takes effort to make sure you dont, especially when you dont know any better in the first place and have to teach yourself from scratch. its tough. and you should be proud of yourself, as should anyone who took their life into their own hands and just said, "fuck it." and didnt let themselves become what they were raised by.
What makes #16 worse. In the previous episode, BoJack nonchalantly jokes with Todd about having herpes. Then he goes and has possibly unprotected sex with a woman! This is some Brian Griffin sh*t and the series doesn't even bring it up. But I'm about to bring up my dinner.
I’m sorry but letting Sarah Lynn die is way worse than the Penny thing . Like that reveal BROKE ME . If called 911 to save the girl that he SUPPOSEDLY LOVED MORE THAN ANY ONE ELSE, she could have possibly lived ! Yes she chose to take the drugs, but he chose to let her die just to save his own selfish ass, and that is by far the worst thing that monster has ever done . Bojack the show is one of my all time faves, but Bojack the character I HATE with ever fiber of my soul istg lol
@@aduckofsomesortnothing happen , they didn’t had sex , and in real life a lot of actors are having sex with people of 18 like DiCaprio , so he didn’t do anything ilegal
That’s a pretty weird thing to say. I mean, there’s a show that you love, but you can’t stand the protagonist of said show. It’s your opinion, and I can see why you would hate Bojack the character though, I’m just saying
@@SPAnComCat It just hit me. I don't think Kitty has ever done a Simpsons video essay. I guess Lydia has already done more than enough Simpsons content.
I’m curious how Penny and Charlotte reacted to the episode of Philbert where Diane used Penny’s trauma to spite Bojack. That scene made me loathe Diane’s character and never really liked her after that.
For me? Bojack is a cautionary tale of what NOT to be like. But one thing I think people are too tough on this show for is the "17 minutes" reveal. Its completely in character for bojack to do that as this was before season 4 and 5 where things were debatably getting better. Plus it also would add to why he went to Michigan of all places. A place where he wouldn't be easily recognized and thus could supposedly just disappear. Where he thinks he won't hurt anyone else.
Bojack is supposed to be relatable and also a terrible person. Part of the fact that he is so awful is that we can imagine ourselves in his place, because we can see (in many places) how he got there. If he was just some wild and crazy character that just did bad things, without being relatable, it wouldn't be so awful.
He's a relatable Charlie from Two and a Half Men. In that show, it's crazy and the plot is psychotic. It's fun because you know everyone is a lunatic in their own way, so you can distance yourself from them. They do objectively awful things all the time, but it's funny because they're unrealistic. Bojack is weird and whacky, but relatable. And that last bit, like you said, makes it so when he does something bad, you understand how he got there. It makes it so the comedic bits and the serious ones are separate.
I think the most gut wrenching part of the 17 minutes was that throughout the entire series we watch BoJoack lie and be a terrible person, but, and I say this as someone who has major depression, you can't help but want him to get better. You know he's human, he cares about those around him, loves deeply. But you see the worst parts of yourself in him. And part of what makes him an alluring character is that you so desperately want to believe that even though you're capable of being a shitty terrible no good person, that love and redemption are still options. You know why he is the way he is. It doesn't mean you forgive him or give him a pass, but you can understand him. But then she says "17 minutes" and you realize You Don't Know him. As silly as it sounds, it's a moment of betrayal. How could he keep this from you, the viewer? He is you. The worst parts of you, all the things you know you could be. He loved Sara Lynn, YOU loved Sara Lynn. How could he let her die like that? It was gut wrenching when I first watched it. A loud gasp and then silence. We took a break after the episode. Heartbroken. Dismayed. He was beyond the point of redemption, this was the new rock bottom.
Woah, hard disagree that *almost* sleeping with Penny was worse than *ostensibly* murdering Sarah Lynn. That Bojack would have been down with Sarah Lynn surviving doesn't change he was also down with having denied her life-saving treatment causing her to die. This establishes intentionality, not negligence, and the consequences of being dead is worse than losing one's virginity at seventeen.
I disagree since BoJack’s perspective matters to these situations too. BoJack likely didn’t know Sarah Lynn was alive when he waited and thought she was beyond saving. That’s still incredibly selfish but there’s a difference between waiting to call 9/11 because you think there’s nothing you could do and be held responsible for a death, and waiting to call to avoid getting caught with heroin. He was also incredibly inebriated at the time. That can’t be said with Penny. He was sober and aware of his actions and still nearly slept with her. That’s far worse from his perspective imo even if Sarah Lynn lead to a worse outcome.
@@noahmclaughlin7921 "I disagree since BoJack’s perspective matters to these situations too." You should seriously ask yourself how much this really should matter. "BoJack likely didn’t know Sarah Lynn was alive when he waited and thought she was beyond saving." There is nothing depicted in the show to support this as Bojack had called for an ambulance for Sarah Lynn after waiting seventeen minutes. You don't call an ambulance for dead people. "That’s still incredibly selfish but there’s a difference between waiting to call 9/11 because you think there’s nothing you could do and be held responsible for a death, and waiting to call to avoid getting caught with heroin." Bojack should have called it in immediately and faced repercussions for his actions instead of meticulously covering his ass. "He was also incredibly inebriated at the time." He made multiple phone calls to cover his ass and crafted a narrative to the same effect. He doesn't get a "I was drunk." pass. "That can’t be said with Penny. He was sober and aware of his actions and still nearly slept with her. That’s far worse from his perspective imo even if Sarah Lynn lead to a worse outcome." From his perspective, sleeping with a seventeen-year-old who can, by law, consent and was throwing himself onto him was justifiable because it is the law of the land (an excuse he has used multiple times). Your logic doesn't add up.
@@reality6442 I don’t see how BoJack’s perspective and knowledge of the situation wouldn’t matter here. Throwing a brick that ends up landing on someone is not the same as intentionally throwing a brick to kill someone. That matters when judging a characters morality. You claim there’s nothing to imply this, but 1) In the Xerox interview BoJack literally tries to say he didn’t know she was alive at the time. “Yes but at the time I thought she was”. BoJack for all his issues never lied during the second interview, so that’s proof enough. Even then what would he have done instead if he thought she was dead, call the mourge? 9/11 was the most logical choice if she was dead or alive, that doesn’t prove he knew she was alive. He seemed surprised when he learned she died at the hospital and it makes sense for that to add to his guilt. It also just wouldn’t make sense for him to wait to call for that. He hardly cares about being caught with drugs, but being caught with someone dying is something I can see him being selfish enough to try and avoid. BoJack was literally snorting packets upon packets of heroin before this and experiencing blackouts. That doesn’t just disappear and him being able to make up an okay lie does not change that. He wasn’t completely intoxicated but his judgement was absolutely influenced by the drugs. And I do agree that he still should’ve called immediately even if she was dead and couldn’t be saved. What he did here was still very immoral. But I am confident that if he knew she could’ve been saved he would’ve called, and this wasn’t as bad as him choking Gina or nearly sleeping with Penny. Also Penny offering doesn’t make it any better, she was still a child and didn’t know what was best for her. BoJack himself admits that and is aware of how bad it would be. That defense of the Penny thing is pretty creepy.
@@noahmclaughlin7921 "I don’t see how BoJack’s perspective and knowledge of the situation wouldn’t matter here." I never said it doesn't. Your mistake is that his perspective matters unlimitedly whereas it only matters insofar as it tells us what state of mind he was in when he committed those actions. How Bojack feels about what he has done in the past does not change the fact that he did it or his mental state at that time. "You claim there’s nothing to imply this, but 1) In the Xerox interview BoJack literally tries to say he didn’t know she was alive at the time. “Yes but at the time I thought she was”. BoJack for all his issues never lied during the second interview, so that’s proof enough. Even then what would he have done instead if he thought she was dead, call the mourge? 9/11 was the most logical choice if she was dead or alive, that doesn’t prove he knew she was alive. He seemed surprised when he learned she died at the hospital and it makes sense for that to add to his guilt. It also just wouldn’t make sense for him to wait to call for that. He hardly cares about being caught with drugs, but being caught with someone dying is something I can see him being selfish enough to try and avoid." Earlier I had mistakenly said that Bojack called the hospital; I was mistaken as he did dial 9-1-1. Therefore, let's assume he did not know whether she was alive or dead. There is still no reason for him to *presume* she is dead except for self-interest. Bojack has had a long history of drugs and addiction and would therefore know an overdoes is not an instant death. Instead of calling the hospital immediately to give her the greatest odds of survival, he intentionally called himself using her phone, and then after that waited seventeen minutes before contacting the hospital to make himself look innocent. As I said in the OP, his actions demonstrate he is cool with letting her die to cover his own ass. Also, Bojack did lie when he claimed "[Sharona] obviously has a vendetta against me."; and also he lies by omission by leaving out his cover-up and negligence until firmly pressed on it with hard evidence. He is still trying to bulls*** to save his image. We do not have any guarantee on his word. "BoJack was literally snorting packets upon packets of heroin before this and experiencing blackouts. That doesn’t just disappear and him being able to make up an okay lie does not change that. He wasn’t completely intoxicated but his judgement was absolutely influenced by the drugs." No, Bojack does not get an "I was on drugs!" defense. That Bojack's mental state was altered (by his own doing) does not change any of the conscious mental choices that he made in such an altered state. As he was alert enough to make fake phone calls to pass off a fabricated narrative to her parents and the police in his inebriated state (a set of actions that would have required a great amount of premeditation) then he was also alert enough to not let Sarah Lynn die by calling the hospital immediately. "I am confident that if he knew she could’ve been saved he would’ve called, and this wasn’t as bad as him choking Gina or nearly sleeping with Penny." The show demonstrates that if there was a chance she could still be saved, Bojack would chose to not act with any urgency if it meant his image would suffer and let someone die in the process. "Also Penny offering doesn’t make it any better, she was still a child and didn’t know what was best for her. BoJack himself admits that and is aware of how bad it would be. That defense of the Penny thing is pretty creepy." Saying "[Penny] didn’t know what was best for her" is ironic given your stance on perspective as both can consent under the law and, from their point of view in the moment, would have been just fine. Regardless, if this comes off as creepy to you that is precisely because it *is* a creepy justification which should be rejected but that was Bojack's reasoning at the time. You are being inconsistent by allowing the great lengths to downplay Sarah Lynn's death and simultaneously upplay Penny's would-be inappropriate relationship.
@@noahmclaughlin7921Bojack isn’t some braindead drug user, he knows the difference between blacked out and dead. He purposely chose to wait nearly 20 minutes and allowed the person he cared about the most die, just to save hisself. He instilled the toxic mindset of “never stop preforming, all that matters is your fans” into her, he and the hairdresser left alcohol within her reach and left her alone with it when she was only 10 years old, starting her lifelong abuse of drugs and alcohol. He knew this girl since she was in elementary school, did all of this to her, actually sleeps with her, causes her to break her 9 month sobriety streak. I don’t see how any of this is “better” than him just almost sleeping with someone who he repeatedly told no too and was legally able to consent. It’s morally wrong af, but he didn’t end pennys life with these actions. Penny can and does still live a good and normal life. Sarah Lynn never had that chance from the beginning.
Top 17 sounds about right. Turning on notifs for this premiere! Love Bojack! And its hard to say what his top worst thing may be... possibly waiting those 17 minutes.
Sarah Lynn not dying in Bojack's arms isn't a rec con, it says in one of the Summer home episodes in season 4 she died in the hospital with Bojack there.
Thank you so much for adding the Diane Nguyen therapist story, because I really relate to her anger. Having someone who’s your best friend/enemy, who knows very DEEP secrets about you, going to the same person. And that person who you’ve known for years telling you, “they need me more than you.” I’d be FURIOUS. And Bojack acting all dumb and not respecting this ONE thing you ask of him, then afterwards leaving almost immediately. I’d be so mad.
To be fair, the kelsey situation was also kelseys fault. She was completly on board with it and the only problem we have is that she was the only one fired. The second time was entirely princess carolyns fault and bojack fired her for that. I cant say thats really his fault
Videos calling out Bojack for his depravity are really useful. It is easy to forget the main character can be the villain. Thanks for explaining additional context to make it clear on why he was in the wrong.
Honestly, I kind of relate to Bojack in the sense that I've done bad things but want to improve. Nothing on the level of even half of what he's done, I was a bit of a bully, an internet Troll and a toxic fan but I've since improved and gotten healthier. That's the way I relate to him, putting your past behind you and being a better guy.
I think one thing I feel alot of people overlook is his involvment with Corduroy Jackson Jackson's death. He came to Bojack for help regarding auto erotic asphyxiation and tried to explain to bojack how damaging it is and gave him the kit. but all Bojack thought was how he could use this to get wanda to admit she loves him. Bojack then brushes him off and ask why he needs to use a kit when anything rope like works fine. then he dies later that episode.
And then in another episode later on another character (I think maybe Todd or Diane?) brings up Corduroy’s death, and it takes BoJack a minute to even recognize his name or who he is.
These were certainly some of his worst actions but the order is out of whack. Giving a child alcohol is worse than setting up Todd and killing Sarah Lynn via negligence is worse than not actually sleeping with Penny.
The difference is that Bojack had full intentions to actually sleep with Penny, but Bojack caused Sarah Lynn's death from negligence and not intentional. It's still a personal opinion which you think is worse but I understand the logic.
@@2cat4life Well he didn't actually, when we see him try to be a creep to her at the college party she was already fine. You people are delusional if you think literally killing people without a care in the world is fine compared to sleeping with a teenager.
@@ciaranicole1334 If I start throwing rocks off a highway pass and it kills someone that's about the level of negligence Bojack had with Sarah Lynn. At some point it starts shifting towards unconscious deliberation.
@@anitaremenarova6662 i think the key is penny is still alive. penny can still feel the pain and trauma of that day. sarah lynn can't. yes she was indirectly killed by bojack but she has the option to not suffer anymore.
8:52 Eddie crying and saying " I don't wanna live" kind of reminds me of Beatrice's mother when they both got in the accident and how she was grieving the same way.
I actually saw Bojack Horseman before Breaking Bad, and I love Arron Paul in each show. I think it’s awesome that he had a role in two of the greatest pieces of television history. I also think it’s interesting that Todd’s red shirt and beanie look seems to be an almost exact replica of a season one outfit that Jessie wore. I can’t remember which episode, but there is an episode in the early part of the show where Pinkman has on almost the exact same outfit Chavez wears throughout most of BJ Horseman. Sadly Bryan Cranston did not have any cameo roles on the show.
He didn't have the best intentions with Penny. He had selfish intentions. He wants to get rid of his guilt and didn't care about the cost to anyone as usual
54:40 Unfortunately, this is something that happened to the late Tina Turner. She wrote a whole book and people still ask about her abusive ex-husband.
But sleeping with sarah lynn.. a person you knew since she was basically a baby?? Thats maddd creepy and he ACTUALLY slept with her. Yes she was a consenting adult but there was still a large power dynamic there like the man was the reason she started abusing too
34:03 - 34:39 this was such a sweet story fun fact Mara Wilson and I have the same birthday though granted I was born in 2005 and when one of my cousins was younger she had this uncanny resemblance to Matilda which was a name my grandma called her before she was born
I somewhat related to Penny when Bojack visited her unannounced... I broke off contact with my dad 3 years ago due to his drug use and tried to rebuild my life, then he came knocking on my door, I felt terrified and a lot of feelings just came crashing down.
Worst take since the shadydurags take that ended his career is the PC is solely at fault for, oh what's the word, TRYING TO HAVE A LIFE OUTSIDE OF WORK AND ACHIEVING A GOAL SHES ALWAYS WANTED TO ACHIEVE when in reality it BOJACK WHO INSISTED ON DOING HIS OWN STUNTS WHEN HE WAS UNPREPARED AND INABLE TO DO SO and HES A GROWN ADULT CAPABLE OF SAYING "guys i bit off more than i can chew please find me a new stunt double" bc he UNCERAMONIOUSLY SCREAM-FIRED THE FIRST ONE!!! Boj reaped what he sowed and PC was STILL DOING ALL SHE COULD AT THE EXPENSE OF NOT BEING IN THE RUNNING TO ADOPT SADIES BABY!! we only know now that sadie chose pc in the end, but at the time, we ALL thought it was the end of that. PLUS SHE DID ALL OF THAT WHILE CONFRONTING HER EXTREMELY TRAUMATIC PAST BY HAVING TO MEET SADIE IN HER HOMETOWN. Where she was abused by her mother, impregnated by a guy her age that she WORKED FOR, and then had her FIRST OF MANY miscarriages where her MOTHER BLAMED HER FOR IT AND THEN LIED TO HER ABOUT THE NECKLACE THAT LIKELY CONTRIBUTED TO THOSE OTHER MISCARRIAGES. PC deserved one DAMN DAY to herself, to make a life for herself that WASNT JUST WORKING LIKE IT ALWAYS HAS BEEN. And you BLAME HER FOR DRUGGING UP BOJACK?! EVEN THOUGH THE USA HAS HAD AN ONGOING OPIATE CRISIS FOR YEARS AND IS STILL SUFFERING FROM OVER PRESCRIBING THESE DRUGS ANYWAYS?!?!!!?? Okay, miss gender studies, miss writer (which requires SO MUCH RESEARCHING to do well). Explain to me how the woman doesnt deserve to not be constantly working for a man who treats her like an object and not be her own autonomus person with certain things outside of her control and have her ENTIRE LIFE be revolved around making a full adult man happy and healthy? Explain that to me and ill rethink my take on your take but until then, youre wrong. Edit: also, for your alleged todd issues, just say you dont view autistic asexuals as full people and move on with your life. Todd makes people feel seen and you have to at least admit that or you just come off as contrarian without a point. Okay now im done.
Bojack he was a selfish, arrogant, a terrible friend and a sexual predator.But he works unlike velma, it´s because he was a product of a toxic familiy, so the audience can relate to him, but we can´t forget that he still a jerk.
The thing is: Jerk characters like Velma don't work because they are supposed to be likeable and quirky but fail because she is annoying and a prick for no reason and the show go backwards to try to make her in the right and in comparison we have Cartman that is a prick and a huge jerk however he works because he's not supposed to be in the right and every commentary he makes it's satirical in itself, the key is: Representation, you should represent bad characters in a bad light but it doesn't have to make them in itself boring
I've watched Bojack like 5 times and NEVER noticed the billboard of Gina in Fire Flame. I really hope that your theory is true. I felt so bad for her. It was so heartbreaking that she wanted to cover things up because she was worried she'd be reduced to "Bojack's victim."
Bojack never called about Sarah Lynn. He only cared about the planetarium when it helped him to avoid his own demons. He didn’t even know why she liked the planetarium Edit: I just realized Bojack pushes his addiction problems onto other people like Todd, Sarah Lynn, and Doctor Champ
"Sarah lynn isnt alive, they are still alive and have to deal with what he did" sarah lynn isn't alive because of him?? He waited 17 minutes to get her help, she could have survived...i do think that's worse
I dunno I think the Penny thing is overblown. She was legal age and she came onto him, and he didnt just immediately go with it he gave her multiple outs and even explained it wouldnt be what she wanted. 17 Minutes is way worse than that. Honestly stalking Penny later during the blackouts was worse than that.
That's what I have been saying more or less. The fact of the matter is that leaving Pete to hold the bag with an alcohol poisoned Maddie was so much worse. Plus, the fact of the matter with Penny was that originally Bojack had zero interest in Penny and was only interested in Charlotte, Penny's mother (which is very messed up). The fact that Charlotte and Bojack kissed for a while with Charlotte telling Bojack that she has a happy life and doesn't want to wreck (which is odd thing to say after you just kissed an old friend on the mouth while being married). Then Bojack decided to go to Penny, not because he was interested in her, but because Penny was just a replacement for her mother. In many ways this is a lot worse. Bojack traveled to New Mexico to try to reconnect with Charlotte after he broke up with Wanda, he finds out she's married with kids, decides to say at the Carson's house for two months as an uncle figure, dumps an alcohol poisoned teen girl at the hospital with her boyfriend taking all the responsibility, kisses Penny's mother and tries to soothe his ego by almost sleeping with Penny when Charlotte rejects him... That's a hell of a lot worse. Because if you're someone's old buddy of 20 some odd years, and you come down to visit them, then try to sleep with their seventeen year old offspring because they rejected you after you just kissed... You definitely have bigger issues.
She was a dumb 17 year old, just because it's legal it doesn't mean its morally right. It would be questionable enough if he was just a middle aged male sleeping with a teen but the fact that the reason why he didn't turn her away is because he needed comfort after being rejected by the teen's mother makes it disturbing and disgusting. Bojack is 50 something at the time so in theory he is or should be old and mature enough to make the right decision and stick to it, he turned Penny away the first 2 times but he later metaphorically (and literally) left the door open for her to try again.
Am I the only person who thinks that Bojack wasn't the one (or at the very least not the ONLY one to blame) with getting Kelsey fired? Don't get me wrong, I love Kelsey, but she's an adult and she made the decision to go along with filming the scene. It was her responsibility to consider the consequences doing that might have. The onus is on her if she knew that there was a possibility it might have got her fired, and she knew that her career was struggling and she needed to provide for her daughter.
I feel like picking 20 or even 17 of the worst things Bojack has done is a tall order, but I think that some stuff like sleeping with the president of his fanclub (a consenting adult who is in a voluntary and unofficial position, so it really is the same as every hook-up he's ever done with a fan, which 'back in the 90s' and even today, isn't viewed in the same light as "me too" or as particularly exploitative ) and destroying a house that he legally had the right to build up and destroy shouldn't make the list.
I always thought bojack was meant to be relatable, not by the horrible things he does but by his want for self redemption and self betterment. Everyone has been depressed and wants to be happy and everyone has done something they regret and want to be better for and because of that we relate to the extreme case of bojack
I don't think the Penny situation is all that terrible. The situation is creepy from the beginning, regarding taking her to prom. He did turn her down twice. I personally don't think he would have went through with it. He likes to catastrophise. Watching someone you supposedly care for die and not helping immediate is horrible. That made his character irredeemable.
I think he would have, and not only because he says so himself although that is a huge indicator already. Bojack is the type of person that doesn't think or care about consequences when he is having an emotional crisis and often just does things that will fill the void he feels in that moment. Another example is when he kissed Gina after Diane confronted him about New Mexico. He would've probably regretted sleeping with Penny after it was done but I fully believe he wouldve gone through with it if Charlotte hadn't intervened.
Honestly I don’t mind he did that, I just hated he was all tactless with it when it came to Eddie, when he probably could’ve just sold it and given him half or given it to Eddie to do what he wanted with it
idk I think Bojack choosing to let Sarah Lynn die to cover his ass is worse than trying to sleep with Penny. Yes both are AWFUL things, but at least Penny is still alive and can live her life. Sarah Lynn didn't get a choice.
I don't understand all the people who say "living with trauma is worse than death" here. If that's the case, would you want Penny to commit suicide? Would her encounter with BoJack have been better if she had immediately dropped dead instead? At least with trauma, you have the agency to choose whether to live on or not, with death that agency is taken from you.
That’s because everyone deals with it differently. Lots who live with trama can try to move on, like Penny does. But no matter how much you try to move on and try not to think about it the scar will still be there mentally and it isn’t fun. Quite like how the “scar” came back up when she saw him again on her college campus. That’s not saying it’s better to just go KYS at all, that’s no where what people are meaning but at least when you’re dead…. Do you still have thought, feelings, living through bad experiences? Obviously no. Being dead in the way Sarah Lynn died is horrible and she herself quite obviously went through a lot herself but at least for her, it’s now over. Nothing bad can happen to her that she can experience. Penny still had to live with hers .
For me the worst thing Bojack ever had done is having a drug banger with Sara Lyn (when she was sober for 8 months) and eventually killing her by not calling 911 immediately
I always thought the person who gave a way that Bojack had vodka on the set wasn’t Sharona. It was likely another crew member and maybe this crew member knew or had a suspicion that the vodka wasn’t Sharona’s. Sharona wouldn’t have a motive and she’s never spoken out before so it wouldn’t make sense for her to speak out now. If anyone we know of has motive it would be Angela Diaz though it’s never confirmed if she had this knowledge. Another possibility is that the journalists had found out that Sarah Lynn had got drunk on set and thought it would be a possibility that it was actually Bojack’s alcohol so Braxby pressed him on it.
It’s so surreal hearing u bring up the Maddie being Dr. Champ’s daughter theory cause I thought I was the only one who thought that. I mentioned it once or twice before in passing to people and nobody really said anything about it. So it’s interesting to hear people talk about it.
I wouldn’t have purposely tried to lose but pretend like it was a very difficult question than rub it in his face “Was it this small guy called Daniel Radcliffe?” “Sorry, so I know you????? I gotta go. I just won a game show”
Honestly with #17 I would have done the same thing if I were in Bojacks shoes. PB was being an asshole and so was Daniel Radcliffe. Not to mention this was gonna be on tv FOREVER.
Should do this type of video on Stirling Archer. I don't think you've done a review on that show yet, but I think you would have a hoot doing a terrible things list on the main character.
I view the burning money thing as a bad thing Mr. PB did, too. 1: I'm pretty sure burning money is illegal, but I *could* be wrong? In which case...his whole show would've been taken down, so I guess if it is illegal, that law isn't in the show? 2: Why the *heck* did he give the go ahead for the *possibility* of burning the money on the show in the first place? Just go "oh, well. Guess charity gets nothing", safely store the money away and then donate the money off camera regardless of winning or losing. So, basically...I view that as a bad thing for Bojack, Mr. PB and everyone involved in running the exhausting to say show he hosted. (I'm not mentioning any of the other things, because I'm tired and will probably fall asleep before I finish hearing them, so I at least wanted to get this comment sent out before I pass out. Might edit later to add comments about the other stuff.)
How clever that we have 17 entries, the same number as the minutes that Bojack Horseman had waited to call the paramedics, causing Sarah Lynn to bite the dust. But Sarah Lynn can be considered the lucky one, as she doesn't live to endure the trauma, which the same thing tragically can't be said about Penny.
you say choking Women wrong but i think you mean Choking them without Consent is Wrong my ex was into that like she wanted me to even made me feel weird about it
yes dragon fly have exoskeleton. they, have nearly 360 degree vision. with nearly their whole head dedicated to eyes. and 80% of its brain dedicated to sight. with it being the statistical leader in the animal kingdom for successful hunts. something like 95% hunt success rate. due to it's four wings with independent control and special cells that give information about air flow and wing strain. and some of the coolest examples being helicopter damselfly Megaloprepus caerulatus
You gotta love that number 1 was painted by the writers as a supremely traumatic thing for Penny when she went out of her way to bang Bojack like 3 times. It'd be more realistic if it was shown that her mother CONVINCED her it was traumatic. She was 17, not 11. How do I know this **** wasn't written by a man?
There is no way allowing Sarah Lynn to OD and then waiting 17 minutes before calling 911 isn't number 1.
I agree waiting 17 minutes was a totally heartless and scummy thing to do but he wasn't her caretaker. Sarah Lynn was in her 30s, she made the choice to do that last bit of heroin
Literally involuntary manslaughter, well I mean kinda voluntary but you know what I mean. If you don't call for help and they die, that's manslaughter.
@@user-pi3hd2bt3f That's a scummy thing to say. She was clean for months until Bojack, her basically father figure, called her to go on a fucking *BENDER.*
She was sexually abused by her father, Bojack traumatized and helped her become an addict, and then you're gonna end this with "well she chose to do that last bit of heroine so..." oh, fuck off.
She was young, traumatized, and constantly exploited. He *WAS* her caretaker, he made it that way. He had power over her, too much power, and that goes hand in hand with the Zerox of a Zerox episode. He has power over women, and he had power over her since she was 3!!!! Remember that!? 3!!!!!
Not only did he meet her when she was 3 and worked on a show with her, when she became an adult they had sex. I don't care what you say, that's gross as fuck and explains a lot in itself.
It’s the waiting to call emergency services the second he saw she was unconscious he should have called, I agree she’s an adult and made her choice, but there’s a solid chance that him waiting those 17min were the difference between her living and dying
@@audreyjones3553paramedics have a “Don’t ask” policy anyway, so he could have easily tell them nothing about how it happened.
And even if he did called immediately 911 and she died anyway, at least he would have shown basic moral decency.
Oh man, it hurts when Bojack is talking about Sarah Lynn and says "She wasn't like those other girls" and then it cuts to Princess Carolyn. It really hits the nail in the coffin on the fact he never valued any of the things she did for him.
Yes what a shame. Princess Carolyn is such a precious character. HOW Bojack couldn't appreciate that wonderful woman, it beats me...
I still can't believe Bojack was so hurt by Charlotte's rejection, he almost sleeps with HER DAUGHTER. The victim mentality of this man is on some new levels. I fully agree with your #1 spot.
I know you had to cut it down to 17 worst things to fit the motif of "17 minutes Bojack waited before calling for help" and "17 year old girl he nearly slept with"... But NOT putting sleeping with Sarah Lynn on the list anywhere is WILD. They both consistently reaffirm throughout the show that he's like a father figure to her, she was living in his house, and she was on way too many drugs to properly consent. There were so many reasons that it was his responsibility to say no to her, but he doesn't even attempt to rebuff her.
this!!! i thought this was at least top 5-3 i was really gagged that it wasn’t even mentioned because bojack being the father figure and her trusted adult from her early days made it all worse
Maybe she wanted to change it up since that’s usually (rightfully) #1
To be fair, Bojack & Sarah Lynn both gang SA Todd Chavez when he was just trying to get his blanket back.
@@mridlon1634 wich makes it worse, not better
@@undefinedfuck1301
What I was getting at is Sarah Lynn was both a victim, and abuser at the same time. Which, yes, that makes it worse.
(Edit: [Unrelated] this also confirms one other thing… BoJack is a pansexual.
“17 worst things” like “17 minutes”
Or like “17 years old”
@@chaseashley6775 STOP....
OH MY GOD
Gonna have to disagree that Princess Carolyn bore any responsibility for BoJack’s pill problem. He should have stuck with the original plan to have a stunt performer but he cancelled it out of hubris. Princess Carolyn was within her rights to take time off and do something for herself for once and she had fulfilled her obligations related to that day of shooting before she left. She is not duty bound to disrupt her own business to bail BoJack out of yet another bad decision.
True. It's not her job to babysit him and she's not responsible if he hurts himself.
Why are so many people blaming a child for coming onto him? He was the adult. He was the family friend. He was the chaperone. She could’ve said no? He could have and should have. It’s not like he slipped on a banana peel and his underwear came off. He had the responsibility of saying no as the person in the position of power and he chose not to.
More then likely weirdos who have some “controversial” thoughts they aren’t incline to come in terms with yet.
Sure, Penny shouldn’t have kept perusing but at the end of the night…. Who is the grown horse in his 50s?
The same kind of people who defend characters like Griffith (Berserk) and Ketil (Vinland Saga).
@@truthteller7283i think everyone has those thoughts
@@hernandez4856yeah not everyone. Good job exposing yourself.
my biggest thing in this whole situation is..Penny was 100% sober while Bojack was wasted. when charlotte bursts into the boat, bojack isnt even touching penny, while she’s there straddling him trying to undress him
The biggest ones in my opinion were getting Sara Lynn high and lying to cops about what happened, also nearly sleeping with Charlotte’s daughter penny
Also strangling Gina
GREAT 👌 KITTY MONK 🐱 BOJACK HORSEMAN TOP SEVENTEEN WORST THINGS HAD DONE.
You make a lot of good points but.. I really think you should have at least mentioned Bojack having sex with Sarah Lynn. I don't care if they were both drunk and high. He had known her since she was THREE YEARS OLD.
The Sarah Lynn situation is overall the worst vs Penny when put into context. Yes the waiting 17 minutes is already very bad. But when you also consider BoJack breaking Sarah Lynn’s sobriety, only reconnecting with her at the height of her popularity to promote his failing tv show, instilling the toxic “don’t stop dancing” attitude into her that was imprinted onto him, accidentally getting her drunk on his alcohol as a child and kickstarting her life-long addiction issues, and of course, having sex with his self proclaimed life long daughter figure, it’s undeniable. And through all that, we still want to believe that despite how he’s wronged her, he does love her and wants to do right by her. He says he does. But BoJack waiting those 17 minutes to save his ass, over possibly saving the person he says he loves the most, cements how abhorrent his actions are. What happened with Penny was horrible, but the effect BoJack had on Sarah Lynn lasted her entire life, right until the very end.
“That’s a depressing little romp.”
-My dad, when I, his 14 y/o son, said I had finished the whole series.
Oh my dad at the end asked 'Does this come with a noose so I can hang myself?' And that is because he is a Bojack, but, he hasn't had his season finale of getting better/moving on so the whole show just depressed him. Which is unfortunate because I hoped he'd use it to inspire change. Smh.
@@borochifox I mean why would a show basically representing your father make him want to change at all? All it's gonna do is make him want to kill himself. Get him therapy or some shit.
Bojacks parents truly did create a monster with their toxicity. Yea Bojacks responsible for his own actions, but they were the ones who fed him the idea that being miserable is the only way to live.
Tbh, it’s a miracle BoJack didn’t become a serial killer. Even though his acting career & fame were a double edge sword, it gave him a genuine outlet for his aggression, frustration, and pain. His career may have saved himself, and others from way worse inner demons lurking deep under his surface. Demons he had a hard enough time controlling as is.
Bojacks addiction to pain pills after the stunt gone wrong wasn’t pc’s fault at all. She’s not his mother. He is not her responsibility. She deserves to have her own life and for the first time in YEARS when she finally puts herself first an accident happens. And to have the audacity to then blame HER for it shows a complete lack of understanding in their relationship dynamic
While I agree that it’s not her fault I do find PC pushing him to do a stupid show that she was willing to risk her career on and ask him to join after the fact. Only for her to never show up and focus on a baby after getting a show together was a weird writing choice that annoyed me.
But no, the pain pills thing is ridiculous to blame her, he’s a grown ass man and if he doesn’t mind saying penny was an adult then he should act like an adult.
@@joro8693I don't think it was weird at all, it's all part of her story and her desperation at the time. The show was her baby until she had a chance to get an actual baby.
I don’t think they want you to think Radcliffe is a bad guy more that he doesn’t get the whole “hey you’re THAT guy” thing as the dude who played Harry Potter. Him knowing random stage hands but not Bojack exemplifies this to me
Also the whole thing was just friendly competition, the money would go to charity after all. It's Bojack who took it way too seriously
Bojack seemed like a cautionary tale to me, like “this is how not to act.” Or something like “this is why you should go to therapy and get help as early as possible so this doesn’t become you.”
yeah, same. i did some bad tings in my late teens, nothing as horrendous as in this show, but still bad. makes me think about who i could have become if i hadnt gone to therapy, and i am going back to therapy just to make absolutely sure i am as healthy as i can be. anyone can become their own worst enemy, but it takes effort to make sure you dont, especially when you dont know any better in the first place and have to teach yourself from scratch.
its tough. and you should be proud of yourself, as should anyone who took their life into their own hands and just said, "fuck it." and didnt let themselves become what they were raised by.
Same for me
What makes #16 worse. In the previous episode, BoJack nonchalantly jokes with Todd about having herpes. Then he goes and has possibly unprotected sex with a woman! This is some Brian Griffin sh*t and the series doesn't even bring it up. But I'm about to bring up my dinner.
He did have sex with so many girls so he probably just spread it to many people.
I think about that often . He def passed it to Princess Caroline, Sarah Lynn, and Gina . Had to .
he said he had *a strain* which could be as mild as getting cold sores, so
@@2cat4life Then Todd said he had multiple strains. And that's probably not it for BJ's repertoire of STDs.
@@2cat4lifemultiple strains.
I’m sorry but letting Sarah Lynn die is way worse than the Penny thing . Like that reveal BROKE ME . If called 911 to save the girl that he SUPPOSEDLY LOVED MORE THAN ANY ONE ELSE, she could have possibly lived ! Yes she chose to take the drugs, but he chose to let her die just to save his own selfish ass, and that is by far the worst thing that monster has ever done . Bojack the show is one of my all time faves, but Bojack the character I HATE with ever fiber of my soul istg lol
Penny has to live with what he did to her with the rest of her life and she was a child.
@@aduckofsomesort At least Penny has a life to live
@@aduckofsomesortnothing happen , they didn’t had sex , and in real life a lot of actors are having sex with people of 18 like DiCaprio , so he didn’t do anything ilegal
@@yveltalpoderoso1303 Legality isn't the issue here. The show itself says that
That’s a pretty weird thing to say. I mean, there’s a show that you love, but you can’t stand the protagonist of said show. It’s your opinion, and I can see why you would hate Bojack the character though, I’m just saying
That's awesome that the real Daniel Radcliffe wanted to be on the show!
Right?? I love that he is a fan of the show!
too bad they got Elijah Wood for him instead
@@Yu7Yu7Me7Yume7Elijah Wood?!
I can’t believe Princess Caroline and Kitty Monk are first cousins
BoJack: Choking women is wrong.
Homer Simpson: Choking your son is hilarious!
Very Ironic!
@@SPAnComCat It just hit me. I don't think Kitty has ever done a Simpsons video essay. I guess Lydia has already done more than enough Simpsons content.
@@alexvaughan1013Yeah, I Heard.
i watched bojack during the worst mental health moment of my life so i have no memory of what happened so i appreciate the recap
Watching Bojack in my worst moment it's something I can't avoid
Omg literally same
I’m curious how Penny and Charlotte reacted to the episode of Philbert where Diane used Penny’s trauma to spite Bojack. That scene made me loathe Diane’s character and never really liked her after that.
That was messed up how it's not even talked about again too
That's what I pointed out. People enjoy giving Bojack hell, but Diane has blood on her hands too. And no one calls Diane out on that
For me? Bojack is a cautionary tale of what NOT to be like. But one thing I think people are too tough on this show for is the "17 minutes" reveal. Its completely in character for bojack to do that as this was before season 4 and 5 where things were debatably getting better. Plus it also would add to why he went to Michigan of all places. A place where he wouldn't be easily recognized and thus could supposedly just disappear. Where he thinks he won't hurt anyone else.
Bojack is supposed to be relatable and also a terrible person. Part of the fact that he is so awful is that we can imagine ourselves in his place, because we can see (in many places) how he got there. If he was just some wild and crazy character that just did bad things, without being relatable, it wouldn't be so awful.
He's a relatable Charlie from Two and a Half Men. In that show, it's crazy and the plot is psychotic. It's fun because you know everyone is a lunatic in their own way, so you can distance yourself from them. They do objectively awful things all the time, but it's funny because they're unrealistic.
Bojack is weird and whacky, but relatable. And that last bit, like you said, makes it so when he does something bad, you understand how he got there. It makes it so the comedic bits and the serious ones are separate.
I think the most gut wrenching part of the 17 minutes was that throughout the entire series we watch BoJoack lie and be a terrible person, but, and I say this as someone who has major depression, you can't help but want him to get better. You know he's human, he cares about those around him, loves deeply. But you see the worst parts of yourself in him. And part of what makes him an alluring character is that you so desperately want to believe that even though you're capable of being a shitty terrible no good person, that love and redemption are still options. You know why he is the way he is. It doesn't mean you forgive him or give him a pass, but you can understand him. But then she says "17 minutes" and you realize You Don't Know him. As silly as it sounds, it's a moment of betrayal. How could he keep this from you, the viewer? He is you. The worst parts of you, all the things you know you could be. He loved Sara Lynn, YOU loved Sara Lynn. How could he let her die like that? It was gut wrenching when I first watched it. A loud gasp and then silence. We took a break after the episode. Heartbroken. Dismayed. He was beyond the point of redemption, this was the new rock bottom.
Damn, your comment gave me chills
cringe
Perfect description
Woah, hard disagree that *almost* sleeping with Penny was worse than *ostensibly* murdering Sarah Lynn. That Bojack would have been down with Sarah Lynn surviving doesn't change he was also down with having denied her life-saving treatment causing her to die. This establishes intentionality, not negligence, and the consequences of being dead is worse than losing one's virginity at seventeen.
I disagree since BoJack’s perspective matters to these situations too. BoJack likely didn’t know Sarah Lynn was alive when he waited and thought she was beyond saving. That’s still incredibly selfish but there’s a difference between waiting to call 9/11 because you think there’s nothing you could do and be held responsible for a death, and waiting to call to avoid getting caught with heroin. He was also incredibly inebriated at the time. That can’t be said with Penny. He was sober and aware of his actions and still nearly slept with her. That’s far worse from his perspective imo even if Sarah Lynn lead to a worse outcome.
@@noahmclaughlin7921 "I disagree since BoJack’s perspective matters to these situations too." You should seriously ask yourself how much this really should matter.
"BoJack likely didn’t know Sarah Lynn was alive when he waited and thought she was beyond saving." There is nothing depicted in the show to support this as Bojack had called for an ambulance for Sarah Lynn after waiting seventeen minutes. You don't call an ambulance for dead people.
"That’s still incredibly selfish but there’s a difference between waiting to call 9/11 because you think there’s nothing you could do and be held responsible for a death, and waiting to call to avoid getting caught with heroin." Bojack should have called it in immediately and faced repercussions for his actions instead of meticulously covering his ass.
"He was also incredibly inebriated at the time."
He made multiple phone calls to cover his ass and crafted a narrative to the same effect. He doesn't get a "I was drunk." pass.
"That can’t be said with Penny. He was sober and aware of his actions and still nearly slept with her. That’s far worse from his perspective imo even if Sarah Lynn lead to a worse outcome." From his perspective, sleeping with a seventeen-year-old who can, by law, consent and was throwing himself onto him was justifiable because it is the law of the land (an excuse he has used multiple times). Your logic doesn't add up.
@@reality6442 I don’t see how BoJack’s perspective and knowledge of the situation wouldn’t matter here. Throwing a brick that ends up landing on someone is not the same as intentionally throwing a brick to kill someone. That matters when judging a characters morality.
You claim there’s nothing to imply this, but 1) In the Xerox interview BoJack literally tries to say he didn’t know she was alive at the time. “Yes but at the time I thought she was”. BoJack for all his issues never lied during the second interview, so that’s proof enough. Even then what would he have done instead if he thought she was dead, call the mourge? 9/11 was the most logical choice if she was dead or alive, that doesn’t prove he knew she was alive. He seemed surprised when he learned she died at the hospital and it makes sense for that to add to his guilt. It also just wouldn’t make sense for him to wait to call for that. He hardly cares about being caught with drugs, but being caught with someone dying is something I can see him being selfish enough to try and avoid.
BoJack was literally snorting packets upon packets of heroin before this and experiencing blackouts. That doesn’t just disappear and him being able to make up an okay lie does not change that. He wasn’t completely intoxicated but his judgement was absolutely influenced by the drugs.
And I do agree that he still should’ve called immediately even if she was dead and couldn’t be saved. What he did here was still very immoral. But I am confident that if he knew she could’ve been saved he would’ve called, and this wasn’t as bad as him choking Gina or nearly sleeping with Penny.
Also Penny offering doesn’t make it any better, she was still a child and didn’t know what was best for her. BoJack himself admits that and is aware of how bad it would be. That defense of the Penny thing is pretty creepy.
@@noahmclaughlin7921 "I don’t see how BoJack’s perspective and knowledge of the situation wouldn’t matter here." I never said it doesn't. Your mistake is that his perspective matters unlimitedly whereas it only matters insofar as it tells us what state of mind he was in when he committed those actions. How Bojack feels about what he has done in the past does not change the fact that he did it or his mental state at that time.
"You claim there’s nothing to imply this, but 1) In the Xerox interview BoJack literally tries to say he didn’t know she was alive at the time. “Yes but at the time I thought she was”. BoJack for all his issues never lied during the second interview, so that’s proof enough. Even then what would he have done instead if he thought she was dead, call the mourge? 9/11 was the most logical choice if she was dead or alive, that doesn’t prove he knew she was alive. He seemed surprised when he learned she died at the hospital and it makes sense for that to add to his guilt. It also just wouldn’t make sense for him to wait to call for that. He hardly cares about being caught with drugs, but being caught with someone dying is something I can see him being selfish enough to try and avoid."
Earlier I had mistakenly said that Bojack called the hospital; I was mistaken as he did dial 9-1-1. Therefore, let's assume he did not know whether she was alive or dead. There is still no reason for him to *presume* she is dead except for self-interest. Bojack has had a long history of drugs and addiction and would therefore know an overdoes is not an instant death. Instead of calling the hospital immediately to give her the greatest odds of survival, he intentionally called himself using her phone, and then after that waited seventeen minutes before contacting the hospital to make himself look innocent. As I said in the OP, his actions demonstrate he is cool with letting her die to cover his own ass.
Also, Bojack did lie when he claimed "[Sharona] obviously has a vendetta against me."; and also he lies by omission by leaving out his cover-up and negligence until firmly pressed on it with hard evidence. He is still trying to bulls*** to save his image. We do not have any guarantee on his word.
"BoJack was literally snorting packets upon packets of heroin before this and experiencing blackouts. That doesn’t just disappear and him being able to make up an okay lie does not change that. He wasn’t completely intoxicated but his judgement was absolutely influenced by the drugs." No, Bojack does not get an "I was on drugs!" defense. That Bojack's mental state was altered (by his own doing) does not change any of the conscious mental choices that he made in such an altered state. As he was alert enough to make fake phone calls to pass off a fabricated narrative to her parents and the police in his inebriated state (a set of actions that would have required a great amount of premeditation) then he was also alert enough to not let Sarah Lynn die by calling the hospital immediately.
"I am confident that if he knew she could’ve been saved he would’ve called, and this wasn’t as bad as him choking Gina or nearly sleeping with Penny." The show demonstrates that if there was a chance she could still be saved, Bojack would chose to not act with any urgency if it meant his image would suffer and let someone die in the process.
"Also Penny offering doesn’t make it any better, she was still a child and didn’t know what was best for her. BoJack himself admits that and is aware of how bad it would be. That defense of the Penny thing is pretty creepy." Saying "[Penny] didn’t know what was best for her" is ironic given your stance on perspective as both can consent under the law and, from their point of view in the moment, would have been just fine. Regardless, if this comes off as creepy to you that is precisely because it *is* a creepy justification which should be rejected but that was Bojack's reasoning at the time. You are being inconsistent by allowing the great lengths to downplay Sarah Lynn's death and simultaneously upplay Penny's would-be inappropriate relationship.
@@noahmclaughlin7921Bojack isn’t some braindead drug user, he knows the difference between blacked out and dead. He purposely chose to wait nearly 20 minutes and allowed the person he cared about the most die, just to save hisself. He instilled the toxic mindset of “never stop preforming, all that matters is your fans” into her, he and the hairdresser left alcohol within her reach and left her alone with it when she was only 10 years old, starting her lifelong abuse of drugs and alcohol. He knew this girl since she was in elementary school, did all of this to her, actually sleeps with her, causes her to break her 9 month sobriety streak.
I don’t see how any of this is “better” than him just almost sleeping with someone who he repeatedly told no too and was legally able to consent. It’s morally wrong af, but he didn’t end pennys life with these actions. Penny can and does still live a good and normal life. Sarah Lynn never had that chance from the beginning.
Top 17 sounds about right. Turning on notifs for this premiere! Love Bojack! And its hard to say what his top worst thing may be... possibly waiting those 17 minutes.
Sarah Lynn not dying in Bojack's arms isn't a rec con, it says in one of the Summer home episodes in season 4 she died in the hospital with Bojack there.
Nice. I hope you make a video on the worst things every character has done because there’s tons of terrible actions in the show
Thank you so much for adding the Diane Nguyen therapist story, because I really relate to her anger. Having someone who’s your best friend/enemy, who knows very DEEP secrets about you, going to the same person. And that person who you’ve known for years telling you, “they need me more than you.” I’d be FURIOUS. And Bojack acting all dumb and not respecting this ONE thing you ask of him, then afterwards leaving almost immediately. I’d be so mad.
I read the title wrong and thought it was the top 7 worst things Bojack did. I was so excited to see the top most horrendous things he’s done 😭💀
To be fair, the kelsey situation was also kelseys fault. She was completly on board with it and the only problem we have is that she was the only one fired. The second time was entirely princess carolyns fault and bojack fired her for that. I cant say thats really his fault
Videos calling out Bojack for his depravity are really useful. It is easy to forget the main character can be the villain.
Thanks for explaining additional context to make it clear on why he was in the wrong.
Honestly, I kind of relate to Bojack in the sense that I've done bad things but want to improve. Nothing on the level of even half of what he's done, I was a bit of a bully, an internet Troll and a toxic fan but I've since improved and gotten healthier. That's the way I relate to him, putting your past behind you and being a better guy.
7:53 It's not surprising that the guy who played Eddie is now a Oscar nominated actor
This is gonna be a one hour video. I just know it because it’s about Bojack Horseman.
I think one thing I feel alot of people overlook is his involvment with Corduroy Jackson Jackson's death.
He came to Bojack for help regarding auto erotic asphyxiation and tried to explain to bojack how damaging it is and gave him the kit. but all Bojack thought was how he could use this to get wanda to admit she loves him. Bojack then brushes him off and ask why he needs to use a kit when anything rope like works fine. then he dies later that episode.
And then in another episode later on another character (I think maybe Todd or Diane?) brings up Corduroy’s death, and it takes BoJack a minute to even recognize his name or who he is.
These were certainly some of his worst actions but the order is out of whack. Giving a child alcohol is worse than setting up Todd and killing Sarah Lynn via negligence is worse than not actually sleeping with Penny.
The difference is that Bojack had full intentions to actually sleep with Penny, but Bojack caused Sarah Lynn's death from negligence and not intentional. It's still a personal opinion which you think is worse but I understand the logic.
he traumatized penny for life despite "nothing happening" but sure its toootally not worse /s
@@2cat4life Well he didn't actually, when we see him try to be a creep to her at the college party she was already fine. You people are delusional if you think literally killing people without a care in the world is fine compared to sleeping with a teenager.
@@ciaranicole1334 If I start throwing rocks off a highway pass and it kills someone that's about the level of negligence Bojack had with Sarah Lynn. At some point it starts shifting towards unconscious deliberation.
@@anitaremenarova6662 i think the key is penny is still alive. penny can still feel the pain and trauma of that day. sarah lynn can't. yes she was indirectly killed by bojack but she has the option to not suffer anymore.
8:52 Eddie crying and saying " I don't wanna live" kind of reminds me of Beatrice's mother when they both got in the accident and how she was grieving the same way.
I actually saw Bojack Horseman before Breaking Bad, and I love Arron Paul in each show. I think it’s awesome that he had a role in two of the greatest pieces of television history. I also think it’s interesting that Todd’s red shirt and beanie look seems to be an almost exact replica of a season one outfit that Jessie wore. I can’t remember which episode, but there is an episode in the early part of the show where Pinkman has on almost the exact same outfit Chavez wears throughout most of BJ Horseman. Sadly Bryan Cranston did not have any cameo roles on the show.
Bojack Horseman videos are my life. Thank you so much for making them
I’m not really big on commenting, but I’m new to this channel, and I just wanted to say I love your content. Video essays are my all time favorite
The cherry on top of the sh*t sandwich is one of my favourite quotes from the show too!
He didn't have the best intentions with Penny. He had selfish intentions. He wants to get rid of his guilt and didn't care about the cost to anyone as usual
Bojack Horseman feels like if you played a life simulator and chose literally all of the worst options.
54:40 Unfortunately, this is something that happened to the late Tina Turner. She wrote a whole book and people still ask about her abusive ex-husband.
Watching this I realized bojack reminds me of my father and I’m horrified and confused I did not pick up on this sooner
Mara Wilson also plays Jill Pill in BoJack Horseman lol
But sleeping with sarah lynn.. a person you knew since she was basically a baby?? Thats maddd creepy and he ACTUALLY slept with her. Yes she was a consenting adult but there was still a large power dynamic there like the man was the reason she started abusing too
34:03 - 34:39 this was such a sweet story fun fact Mara Wilson and I have the same birthday though granted I was born in 2005 and when one of my cousins was younger she had this uncanny resemblance to Matilda which was a name my grandma called her before she was born
Me: Why 17....oh ohhhhh god
I somewhat related to Penny when Bojack visited her unannounced...
I broke off contact with my dad 3 years ago due to his drug use and tried to rebuild my life, then he came knocking on my door, I felt terrified and a lot of feelings just came crashing down.
Worst take since the shadydurags take that ended his career is the PC is solely at fault for, oh what's the word, TRYING TO HAVE A LIFE OUTSIDE OF WORK AND ACHIEVING A GOAL SHES ALWAYS WANTED TO ACHIEVE when in reality it BOJACK WHO INSISTED ON DOING HIS OWN STUNTS WHEN HE WAS UNPREPARED AND INABLE TO DO SO and HES A GROWN ADULT CAPABLE OF SAYING "guys i bit off more than i can chew please find me a new stunt double" bc he UNCERAMONIOUSLY SCREAM-FIRED THE FIRST ONE!!! Boj reaped what he sowed and PC was STILL DOING ALL SHE COULD AT THE EXPENSE OF NOT BEING IN THE RUNNING TO ADOPT SADIES BABY!! we only know now that sadie chose pc in the end, but at the time, we ALL thought it was the end of that.
PLUS SHE DID ALL OF THAT WHILE CONFRONTING HER EXTREMELY TRAUMATIC PAST BY HAVING TO MEET SADIE IN HER HOMETOWN. Where she was abused by her mother, impregnated by a guy her age that she WORKED FOR, and then had her FIRST OF MANY miscarriages where her MOTHER BLAMED HER FOR IT AND THEN LIED TO HER ABOUT THE NECKLACE THAT LIKELY CONTRIBUTED TO THOSE OTHER MISCARRIAGES. PC deserved one DAMN DAY to herself, to make a life for herself that WASNT JUST WORKING LIKE IT ALWAYS HAS BEEN. And you BLAME HER FOR DRUGGING UP BOJACK?! EVEN THOUGH THE USA HAS HAD AN ONGOING OPIATE CRISIS FOR YEARS AND IS STILL SUFFERING FROM OVER PRESCRIBING THESE DRUGS ANYWAYS?!?!!!??
Okay, miss gender studies, miss writer (which requires SO MUCH RESEARCHING to do well). Explain to me how the woman doesnt deserve to not be constantly working for a man who treats her like an object and not be her own autonomus person with certain things outside of her control and have her ENTIRE LIFE be revolved around making a full adult man happy and healthy? Explain that to me and ill rethink my take on your take but until then, youre wrong.
Edit: also, for your alleged todd issues, just say you dont view autistic asexuals as full people and move on with your life. Todd makes people feel seen and you have to at least admit that or you just come off as contrarian without a point. Okay now im done.
actually, the worst thing Bojack has ever done was sneezing on Marisa Tomei
Bojack he was a selfish, arrogant, a terrible friend and a sexual predator.But he works unlike velma, it´s because he was a product of a toxic familiy, so the audience can relate to him, but we can´t forget that he still a jerk.
The thing is: Jerk characters like Velma don't work because they are supposed to be likeable and quirky but fail because she is annoying and a prick for no reason and the show go backwards to try to make her in the right and in comparison we have Cartman that is a prick and a huge jerk however he works because he's not supposed to be in the right and every commentary he makes it's satirical in itself, the key is: Representation, you should represent bad characters in a bad light but it doesn't have to make them in itself boring
crazy how i literally just finished rewatching Bojack like 3 days ago. Goated show
I've watched Bojack like 5 times and NEVER noticed the billboard of Gina in Fire Flame. I really hope that your theory is true. I felt so bad for her. It was so heartbreaking that she wanted to cover things up because she was worried she'd be reduced to "Bojack's victim."
Bojack never called about Sarah Lynn. He only cared about the planetarium when it helped him to avoid his own demons. He didn’t even know why she liked the planetarium
Edit: I just realized Bojack pushes his addiction problems onto other people like Todd, Sarah Lynn, and Doctor Champ
"Sarah lynn isnt alive, they are still alive and have to deal with what he did" sarah lynn isn't alive because of him?? He waited 17 minutes to get her help, she could have survived...i do think that's worse
11:46 I hated how Bojack just threw her under the bus. It hurts to watch him destroy all the good will he made.
I love how there are no honorable mentions in this video.
I feel like this is gonna be one of kitty's biggest videos when the next round of bojack watch and re-watchers hits tiktok
I'm expecting what happened with Sarah Lynn to be #1! 💔
I dunno I think the Penny thing is overblown. She was legal age and she came onto him, and he didnt just immediately go with it he gave her multiple outs and even explained it wouldnt be what she wanted.
17 Minutes is way worse than that. Honestly stalking Penny later during the blackouts was worse than that.
That's what I have been saying more or less. The fact of the matter is that leaving Pete to hold the bag with an alcohol poisoned Maddie was so much worse.
Plus, the fact of the matter with Penny was that originally Bojack had zero interest in Penny and was only interested in Charlotte, Penny's mother (which is very messed up).
The fact that Charlotte and Bojack kissed for a while with Charlotte telling Bojack that she has a happy life and doesn't want to wreck (which is odd thing to say after you just kissed an old friend on the mouth while being married).
Then Bojack decided to go to Penny, not because he was interested in her, but because Penny was just a replacement for her mother.
In many ways this is a lot worse. Bojack traveled to New Mexico to try to reconnect with Charlotte after he broke up with Wanda, he finds out she's married with kids, decides to say at the Carson's house for two months as an uncle figure, dumps an alcohol poisoned teen girl at the hospital with her boyfriend taking all the responsibility, kisses Penny's mother and tries to soothe his ego by almost sleeping with Penny when Charlotte rejects him... That's a hell of a lot worse.
Because if you're someone's old buddy of 20 some odd years, and you come down to visit them, then try to sleep with their seventeen year old offspring because they rejected you after you just kissed... You definitely have bigger issues.
Def agree lol
As the adult in the situation it’s up to him to say no and he didn’t. You can’t put that onus on a literal child.
She was a dumb 17 year old, just because it's legal it doesn't mean its morally right. It would be questionable enough if he was just a middle aged male sleeping with a teen but the fact that the reason why he didn't turn her away is because he needed comfort after being rejected by the teen's mother makes it disturbing and disgusting. Bojack is 50 something at the time so in theory he is or should be old and mature enough to make the right decision and stick to it, he turned Penny away the first 2 times but he later metaphorically (and literally) left the door open for her to try again.
Am I the only person who thinks that Bojack wasn't the one (or at the very least not the ONLY one to blame) with getting Kelsey fired? Don't get me wrong, I love Kelsey, but she's an adult and she made the decision to go along with filming the scene. It was her responsibility to consider the consequences doing that might have. The onus is on her if she knew that there was a possibility it might have got her fired, and she knew that her career was struggling and she needed to provide for her daughter.
I feel like picking 20 or even 17 of the worst things Bojack has done is a tall order, but I think that some stuff like sleeping with the president of his fanclub (a consenting adult who is in a voluntary and unofficial position, so it really is the same as every hook-up he's ever done with a fan, which 'back in the 90s' and even today, isn't viewed in the same light as "me too" or as particularly exploitative ) and destroying a house that he legally had the right to build up and destroy shouldn't make the list.
I agree with the fan club, but destroying the house was awful because it wasted so much of the dragonfly’s hard work and time
Honestly the one and two are definitely interchangeable
Your Bojack Horseman videos are my favorites 😅 hoping there’s more in the future
when it comes BoJack Horse he has done the WORST Things all through out the show
I always thought bojack was meant to be relatable, not by the horrible things he does but by his want for self redemption and self betterment. Everyone has been depressed and wants to be happy and everyone has done something they regret and want to be better for and because of that we relate to the extreme case of bojack
I don't think the Penny situation is all that terrible. The situation is creepy from the beginning, regarding taking her to prom. He did turn her down twice. I personally don't think he would have went through with it. He likes to catastrophise. Watching someone you supposedly care for die and not helping immediate is horrible. That made his character irredeemable.
I think he would have, and not only because he says so himself although that is a huge indicator already. Bojack is the type of person that doesn't think or care about consequences when he is having an emotional crisis and often just does things that will fill the void he feels in that moment. Another example is when he kissed Gina after Diane confronted him about New Mexico. He would've probably regretted sleeping with Penny after it was done but I fully believe he wouldve gone through with it if Charlotte hadn't intervened.
Actually, I feel like tearing down the Old Sugerman place was for the best. The ghosts of past trauma were trapped in that house, he set them free.
Honestly I don’t mind he did that, I just hated he was all tactless with it when it came to Eddie, when he probably could’ve just sold it and given him half or given it to Eddie to do what he wanted with it
@@KittyMonk I think Katsuki Bakugo (who doesn't have a filter) would have been more tactful.
idk I think Bojack choosing to let Sarah Lynn die to cover his ass is worse than trying to sleep with Penny. Yes both are AWFUL things, but at least Penny is still alive and can live her life. Sarah Lynn didn't get a choice.
The way number 17, being the LEAST bad thing on this list, is burning charity money
I don't understand all the people who say "living with trauma is worse than death" here. If that's the case, would you want Penny to commit suicide? Would her encounter with BoJack have been better if she had immediately dropped dead instead? At least with trauma, you have the agency to choose whether to live on or not, with death that agency is taken from you.
That’s because everyone deals with it differently. Lots who live with trama can try to move on, like Penny does. But no matter how much you try to move on and try not to think about it the scar will still be there mentally and it isn’t fun. Quite like how the “scar” came back up when she saw him again on her college campus.
That’s not saying it’s better to just go KYS at all, that’s no where what people are meaning but at least when you’re dead…. Do you still have thought, feelings, living through bad experiences? Obviously no. Being dead in the way Sarah Lynn died is horrible and she herself quite obviously went through a lot herself but at least for her, it’s now over. Nothing bad can happen to her that she can experience. Penny still had to live with hers .
Penny is alive. Sarah Lynn isn't. That 17 minutes is DEF worse.
For me the worst thing Bojack ever had done is having a drug banger with Sara Lyn (when she was sober for 8 months) and eventually killing her by not calling 911 immediately
7:15 I thought they were athletes running everyday I didn't know feral who wear clothes existed in Bojack!
I always thought the person who gave a way that Bojack had vodka on the set wasn’t Sharona. It was likely another crew member and maybe this crew member knew or had a suspicion that the vodka wasn’t Sharona’s. Sharona wouldn’t have a motive and she’s never spoken out before so it wouldn’t make sense for her to speak out now. If anyone we know of has motive it would be Angela Diaz though it’s never confirmed if she had this knowledge. Another possibility is that the journalists had found out that Sarah Lynn had got drunk on set and thought it would be a possibility that it was actually Bojack’s alcohol so Braxby pressed him on it.
It’s so surreal hearing u bring up the Maddie being Dr. Champ’s daughter theory cause I thought I was the only one who thought that. I mentioned it once or twice before in passing to people and nobody really said anything about it. So it’s interesting to hear people talk about it.
God im not going to fucking hate myself after this
Definitely the Sarah Lynn thing and the Penny thing.
I wouldn’t have purposely tried to lose but pretend like it was a very difficult question than rub it in his face
“Was it this small guy called Daniel Radcliffe?”
“Sorry, so I know you????? I gotta go. I just won a game show”
Honestly with #17 I would have done the same thing if I were in Bojacks shoes. PB was being an asshole and so was Daniel Radcliffe. Not to mention this was gonna be on tv FOREVER.
Ahhhh! Kitty posted Bojack content!
With that logic isnt there only 9 people left to run 4 other locations because dont 6 people work at the arlin’s strickland?
Should do this type of video on Stirling Archer. I don't think you've done a review on that show yet, but I think you would have a hoot doing a terrible things list on the main character.
I'm surprised you haven't done any videos about princess Carolyn yet.
I love the way you say achohol. Hits the ear great
I greatly respect Ratcliffe's admiration to animation
I view the burning money thing as a bad thing Mr. PB did, too.
1: I'm pretty sure burning money is illegal, but I *could* be wrong? In which case...his whole show would've been taken down, so I guess if it is illegal, that law isn't in the show?
2: Why the *heck* did he give the go ahead for the *possibility* of burning the money on the show in the first place?
Just go "oh, well. Guess charity gets nothing", safely store the money away and then donate the money off camera regardless of winning or losing.
So, basically...I view that as a bad thing for Bojack, Mr. PB and everyone involved in running the exhausting to say show he hosted.
(I'm not mentioning any of the other things, because I'm tired and will probably fall asleep before I finish hearing them, so I at least wanted to get this comment sent out before I pass out. Might edit later to add comments about the other stuff.)
How clever that we have 17 entries, the same number as the minutes that Bojack Horseman had waited to call the paramedics, causing Sarah Lynn to bite the dust. But Sarah Lynn can be considered the lucky one, as she doesn't live to endure the trauma, which the same thing tragically can't be said about Penny.
"17 worst things" or more like "The 17 year old he groomed" or like "the 17 minutes he waited before calling 911"
indirectly killing sarah lynee shouldve been number one.
I don't know where kitty monk lives but in California narcan is over the counter no questions asked
It’s over the counter everywhere in the us
17:27 fun fact there was one movie that Stanley Kubrick made that he didn’t produce
And the worst part he demolished not a house but a home of his mother that she loved so dearly and the photos
you say choking Women wrong but i think you mean Choking them without Consent is Wrong
my ex was into that
like she wanted me to
even made me feel weird about it
Exactly, consent is always key
yes dragon fly have exoskeleton.
they, have nearly 360 degree vision. with nearly their whole head dedicated to eyes. and 80% of its brain dedicated to sight.
with it being the statistical leader in the animal kingdom for successful hunts. something like 95% hunt success rate. due to it's four wings with independent control and special cells that give information about air flow and wing strain. and some of the coolest examples being helicopter damselfly Megaloprepus caerulatus
You gotta love that number 1 was painted by the writers as a supremely traumatic thing for Penny when she went out of her way to bang Bojack like 3 times. It'd be more realistic if it was shown that her mother CONVINCED her it was traumatic. She was 17, not 11. How do I know this **** wasn't written by a man?