It’s interesting that the rise in Trans, Non-Binary, Gender Fluid etc etc has happened at the same time as the rise of social media. It certainly is a social contagion.
I felt some 'trans-ness' as a child, I meditated on it and eliminated it.. While.. with some help by getting the right balance of masculine and feminine energies in my life.
The Tickle versus Giggle legal case will test gender identity in Australia's constitution. This could reverse sex self ID legislation which allows men to alter their birth certificate and be legally recognised as women. A human rights claim has been brought by Roxy Tickle (a man who identifies as a woman) against Giggle (owned by Sall Grover) for refusing to let him use her female-only networking app called Giggle. Sal Grover defends she can reserve her media for biological women only. This is a case for women’s sex-based rights and protections in Australia. It may test the sex-based rights of women versus the rights of those claiming a gender identity inconsistent with their sex. It has import for all female spaces. Do women and girls across Australia have a right to female-only services, dedicated facilities and activities? Must women share these with men and boys who say they’re female? Katherine Deves is part of the legal team aiding Sal Gover. The case may go as far as the High court.
The sadness in her voice. Honestly, I love this woman so much. She speaks my opinion in a calm, articulate way. She is incredibly brave to stand up to this because I am sure not.
Why don't you just take your senistivity and pop it up your sensitive? Because what is needed is harsh and determined critical awareness and bold uncompromising criticism.
As a teacher - i have certainly witnessed the ups and downs and faddieness of gender identity in the classroom over the past few years… most of the dysphoria i have encountered has been girls (most of them on the spectrum) who are struggling with puberty, and hey, someone has come along and told them they can be a boy to avoid the change they are going through… then they realise that nature is out of their control and deal with it they way we have for millennia
@@Pants69 look I don't want to sound patronizing but what you've committed here is either a logical fallacy or setting up of a straw man argument, inclined towards the latter. Nowhere in my statement are exclusionary conditions for self-identifying race (unlike your construction). If had an interest or inclination in engaging on such a topic, I don't, I would have explicitly stated such.
Kathleen js absolutely right about this issue. My nephew in law's wife is a fellow at the Uni Kathleen was hounded out of. She is woke, & expects everyone to agree with her views, even berating a family member at his brother's funeral on the subject. These people are nuts
His daughter is 14. That is the age when boys and girls are most susceptible to comparing yourself to others, social hierarchy gets established, and puberty makes you - for a lack of a better word, mental. No wonder her friends are talking about this stuff.
Life seemed so simple when I was a boy, and now at 54, it feels like a minefield out there - you cannot say this or that, for not wanting to offend. Well, offence is taken, not given, and I find many people, especially younger people, seem unnecessarily super-sensitive about things in general. So it's refreshing to see a mature conversation about this topic. For me, there are more important things going on in the world 🌎 to concern ourselves with, like Ukraine 🇺🇦 They are defending their freedom, as well as ours... IF, in the future, there is no freedom, then you shall have no choice, let alone being allowed to even think about it...
Literally every generation in the past has said the same thing. Every single one. „Man, when I was young, this stuff seemed to be so simply, nobody questioned if the woman belonged into the kitchen… and today, you gotta be so careful, because people will get offended if you suggest that that‘s where ladies belong…“ „Yes, grandpa, we know. Modern days are scary…“ No offense, but do you really think whenever people your age complained about this stuff it was just them aging… but in YOUR case, it‘s actually true and there is a problem with the next generation? Couldn‘t it just be that, well… maybe you‘re just getting old, and that‘s how old people ALWAYS end up seeing the next generation?
@@c.m.9369 I don't think there has been people who want sterilize thenselves before. I feel like media usually skips that people who mess with their genitalia will be sterilized for rest of their life.
@@c.m.9369 You're arguing that previously women were expected to be in the kitchen. Now the current trend is to suggest that anyone who likes being in the kitchen is a woman. Same sexism, different decade.
Some how we stopped talking about personalities and replaced it with "gender" .....we have innumerably personalities including a range of masculine and famine traits, both absolutely essential for the survival of the species....some seem to forget the relatively safe life we have in the west is a very recent development.....
The concept of gender being different to sex is flawed. Man & woman aren't social constructs that you can choose. The social constructs that you choose are the individual stereotypes associated with man or woman. For example, Dresses, makeup, caring attitude. The only thing that a person chooses is their own mix of male & female stereotypes. They don't choose "man", "woman" or "two spirit penguin". The only thing that is fluid are the individual stereotypes that a person chooses. No matter which stereotypes that you choose, it doesn't change whether you are a man or woman.
except Goths didn't insist that the entire world validated their lifestyle choices, nor did they insist children must be compelled to have tattoos if they liked a Cure song.
I know this is off topic but…We need to have a big science debate… where the public get to hear scientists debating gender /trans issues. Most people do not know much about science ( most people know little more than IGCSE or A level) so instead of inviting non medical/non scientific people and activists onto shows like this to talk about it, we need to have a line up of world class, highly respected scientists to read through the opposing teams research and then challenge each others research and data. Kids are being told online there are scientific studies proving all this trans stuff is correct… well let the scientists who believe that present their evidence to the scientists that don’t and then debate it. A civilised rigorous debate, based entirely on proven scientific facts would inform the public much more than these moral outrage reactions we see keep seeing on shows like this. We need to start getting technical! We need scientists to step forward and disprove and debunk the false information that is circulating - to as wide an audience as possible. MPs should come to listen in the audience but not take part. it will only work if the scientists are top drawer experts… with a proven track record of expertise and competence that is relevant. So not famous engineers or astronomers who have an opinion! We need debates on the science, free from emotion, free from politics, free from activists and their issues about rights! Just science! Is there any truth to these claims that is actually backed up by science… if so prove it! How conclusive is the evidence? The public has a right to see the evidence not just trust politicians who pass legislation ( and most politicians have no background in science either). Perhaps a hundred or more scientists and doctors could watch the debate and vote before and after they hear the evidence to show the public what the scientific community thinks about it all. I think if it were done properly it would get huge viewing figures and would protect many children from exploitation and manipulation.
@@Now4wheels I would definitely like scientists to discuss the medical facts and data about people who are intersex. There is so much disagreement about classification, and the numbers of people who are genuinely intersex etc. I think it would be very helpful to have a rigorous scientific examination of the facts, but as I say leaving aside personal testimonies and feelings, as well as social politics (which is all highly subjective and would reduce the debate to a mere clash of unsubstantiated beliefs).
Seems obvious to talk with this about doctors, psychiatrist, psychologists and sociologists (not sure when philosophy comes into it), but also talking to actual trans people and being involved in the community as a process towards closing the loop?! And by that I mean adults who have or are in the process of transitioning. Not children who you want to yell at
I am currently transistoring into a flying saucer however all that spinning around makes me quite dizzy.(Hymn,usually in the key of Dminor but sometimes C major if it turns sunny:-)
This fixation on gender is based entirely on stereotypes. If a boy likes pink he must be really be a girl! Well how about he might just be gender nonconforming, or he might grow up to be gay. People who are opposed to gender ideology are opposed to stereotyping; its supporters are obsessed with stereotyping.
Also, the unnecessary lock down that isolated young people from school and each other forced them onto social media even more. Yes, l know this gender id has been going on a lot longer than c19 but its been incremental
Come on, be honest. Are these Qs really beyond you? Do you think human beings can change their biological sex? Do you think rapists should be housed in women's prisons? Do you think men should be able to compete in women's sports? Do you think disturbed, unhappy children should be allowed to consent to irreversible medical procedures? If people are afraid to answer 'no' to those Qs - which aren't difficult philosophical Qs - then it's not because they aren't equipped with philosophy degrees, it's because they are either idealogues/cultists or they are cowards.
I think that the problem isn't gender fluidity, it's that gender still matter so much. People still identify themselves completely by their gender, what the real truth that people need to realise is that it doesn't matter what gender you are, it matters the kind of person you are. Life would be much much simpler if we could just treat each other as people rather than as genders with all the societal baggage that comes with them. Gender only matters when it comes down to practical considerations. If you want to bear a child, it matters, if you're deciding which prison to send someone it matters, but for the vast majority of things we give far far too much weight to gender.
@@carltaylor6452 nah, gender exists on multiple levels. physical, social and spiritual. physical being what organs you have, social being all the junk we're taught to associate with certain genders (knitting and gossip being feminine, violence and football being masculine), and spiritual, which is where on the feminine masculine scale you feel you are on the inside. I would consider sex to just be the physical level. unless you mean sex as an activity, in which case it's another scenario where gender actually matters for most people.
@@jamesdawson2510 but in your original post you're clearly referring to sex and not gender. People don't 'identify themselves completely by their gender'. Most people don't have a gender identity. I don't. There's no evidence such a thing even exists. I'm a male. I don't know what it feels like to be a male except in a social context, and then only sometimes. Otherwise I agree with you.
@@carltaylor6452 Mmm, gender's personal, and I can only talk about my own experience. In general I feel more feminine than masculine, and I don't know how to define that using social norms, I do think that feminine/masculine are a duality that goes deeper than whatever activities we tag onto the extremes of that scale. Alone I feel that, in groups... I tend to feel genderless, I regard myself as a person first and that's how I tend to approach social situations. A lot of people though seem to define their personality and identity by the gender they associate with. You'll have seen the men who feel the need to assert their "masculinity" by being aggressive, loud and very into what our society attaches to "male", sex, sports and cars. Or the very "feminine" women who only seem to care about relationships and appearance. That's what I mean by identifying completely with a gender. The examples I gave are extreme, but you'll find most people do it to some degree. It's only recently that it was seen as acceptable if quirky for men to knit, or women to like cars.
What we choose as our expressions of ourselves in life are based on our sex. This is why a group of girls sit around and gossip and a group of boys outside of school play cricket football and make up games
Swedish study, it's one reason the swedes, England, Finland, some US states have halted transitioning of children in favour of psychoanalysis care until they are 18. Any responsible adult would vere on the side of caution rather than debilitating a child with irreversible surgery and sterilisation.
How? And why does it matter? What’s the body count? Why is it anyone’s business? And is it possible, just maybe, that we have another political opportunist grandstanding on an issue to win easy points with the outrage brigade?
you could say the same thing for left handed people. The amount of people using their left hands exploded after we stopped "correcting" it and is now stable
apples and oranges do not make a good argument. no compelling as is "Oh I see now! it's exactly the same!!" you still haven't made a good argument that sexual fetish and delusions are "born this way" in spite of junk "scientific" studies produced by your lackeys
I don't remember left handed people ever trying to erase sex-based rights, or trying to sterilise people who didn't conform to stereotypes for their sex.
Left handedness is an empirically observable and measurable phenomenon that exists in a consistent, stable minority through history and across cultures. Like homosexuality. Proportions level off once the group is no longer oppressed. The belief among those suffering from mental illness or trauma (often same sexual attracted) that one is mentally the opposite sex or neither sex contrary to all observable evidence of the body and that they must be “fixed” by chemically and surgically altering one’s sexed features rendering them sterile and castrated is a modern phenomenon with no easy comparison. It would be like if a person born left handed was fed the belief that that’s not ok to be a variation from the norm and instead that there’s something wrong with them, and that they need to be “transitioned” to become “trans-handed” aka have their left hand cut off and sewed back on backwards so they can have a damaged, minimally-functional dominant “right hand” rather than just be a leftie. 99% of those with early-onset (prepubertal) gender dysphoria are homosexual. 40% of those with any gender dysphoria at all presenting at gender clinics have moderate to severe (not even including mild aka high functioning) autism. Over 90% of trans people have an anxiety disorder, depression or both. 80% of trans-identifying people have a personality disorder. You either think it’s ok to castrate and sterilize these people or you don’t. If I were a doctor or therapist, I would point-blank refuse to facilitate a patient’s gender transition if they were untreated or symptomatic for even one of these issues. I don’t doubt there have been a consistent minority of people who experience distress over their sex and a desire to be the opposite sex…how we interpret that and help those people is entirely cultural though.
It's an individual's choice in a free country. If it;s a phase, they will get over it. If it's not a phase then so be it. Regardless of which it is, they should be allowed to live their lives as they choose. It's up to the individual to choose. BTW, I'm a cis male that's almost 80 years old.
You're not a "cis male", you're just male. Nobody can casually live their life as they choose, laws have to be followed. You may choose to enter a female changing room or sports competition, but that wouldn't be legal, or decent, or fair.
I don't think anyone has an issue with you calling yourself or dressing yourself and presenting yourself however feels right for you - to demand others change their own perception, compel speech and change laws, services and institutions accommodate that to the detriment of others - usually women and children- is wrong imo
@@apebass2215 If I choose to call myself CIS, that is my right as stated in the US Constitution in the 1st amendment. You have NOTHING to say about it. There is no law preventing me just ignorant people like you that are trying to rule over me. Keep you fascism to yourself.
@@helench6097 The people that are changing the laws are the Evangelical Christian radicals. There have been trans people for a long, long time. Now the right-wing freaks are getting upsset.
You know who you could've asked the question directly to? Actual transgender or non binary individuals. The whole "I don't understand it therefore it's probably not real therefore I don't believe them" argument only breeds more bigotry. Poorly done Times.
I do believe we've heard quite enough from your contingent..and now it's time for OUR viewpoints. I think I understand pretty well. maybe YOU could shut up and listen for once? just a thought.
@@powpowdingdong the whole point is that different views are allowed. Transpeople are all individuals, not just defined by their trans identity. Trans-space in not a single hivemind.
Why are they going on about it on youtube if its none of our business 😂 tell that to them lol i dont care what they identify as i dont believe them. trans women are men... obviously.
It's my business if my speech is compelled, if my mother is not allowed to ask for a same-sex carer, if children in our society are being mutilated and sterilised, if rapists are being housed in women's prisons and committing sexual assaults. This has nothing to do with people 'just' defining themselves.
Gender fluidity is not a bad thing. It's part of the widening of acceptance in society. Plus a blurring of gender lines can only be a good thing given the much larger issue of toxic masculinity.
There is also the decent, kind, considerate and chivalrous type of men - they being the majority and behaving as men! Gender fluidity is a social and legal fiction which has caused much harm.
Masculinity is not a bad thing. Toxic masculinity is a problem. Gender fluidity is not a bad thing. Toxic gender fluidity is a problem. Both should be freely discussed and resolved.
@@apebass2215 not sure I understand the premise of your question. Are you claiming that gender dysphoria is the same as taste in fashion? If so I don't think anyone is making this argument (in good faith).
if "i don't believe in this" is her strongest argument then why on earth is she talking about it? this is some nonsensical culture war stuff instead of rational and science based discussion isnt it? I feel rather disappointed after listening trough this. I had hoped to hear some actual science and thoughts backed by other things than "i dont believe in this"
@@dragonfox2.058 Biology understanding has advanced considerably the last 2000 years or heck even the last 20 years and that is the whole point here. I came here to look for someone with authority in the field but instead i saw this clip with some random nobody with opinions. So yeah i did actually complain that i didnt learn something useful from this.
@@veriahl If you think Kathleen Stock is a random nobody you need to get out more! Biology hasn't 'advanced' beyond the knowledge that humans are mammals, mammals have two sexes, mammals can't change sex. If you think it has I'd love to see your evidence. 😅
Such obvious scapegoating, looking for someone to attack in order to hide the massive kleptocracy going on out of sight Well done guys, keep up the good work !
There's nothing progressive about policies that are homophobic and remove rights and security from women and girls. People are waking up to the gaslighting. Terms like 'transphobic' and 'scapegoating' will no longer be able to prevent this discussion happening.
No, trans, or Gender Fluidity is not a social contagion! Social platforms and smart phones have added language we older didn't have. Being shocked and stigmatizing the social lives of kids is disingenuous, gaslighting and bullying!
@@paulinskipukprogressive4903 You cant have my privacy, sports or changing rooms and you MUST stay out of my prisons. YOU don't fool me. You're all just entitled men
I respect Kathleen's right to have her own opinion and she should be given the freedom to speak it. What I dislike is her thinly veiled tone of disdain, dismissing the sincere beliefs of others as 'fantasy'. I compare gender to sport. For example, it baffles me why anyone would want to watch players kick a football about for hours every week, but I know they passionately want to and I am happy for them to go on doing that. If I was to wade in with my uninformed opinions about how the game should be played, fans would understandably be irritated. What I'm saying is that I wish people who have no experience of or interest in being transgender would stop stipulating their opinions about it as fact. Yes, I know there will always be young people who will jump on a bandwagon to stand out. When I was at college, people would flirt with the idea of being gay to attract attention. These poseurs will soon move on but there are some of us who have known since our childhood that we do not conform to traditional gender roles and for us, this is our life, not a fad or a fantasy.
@@howigotover798 At around 5:52 in the video she says that she 'punctures their fantasy version of events/fantasy version of the world.' That strikes me as arrogant and dismissive. She also acknowledges that the term 'contagion' has a negative context, yet doesn't choose a different description - and she infers that trans people are mistaken in their beliefs and/or want 'special' treatment. Most just want to free to express their opinion too and be safe. How is all this being forced on everyone? People are requesting help to physically change themselves to match their chosen gender - perhaps naively or too soon in some cases, but no one is being ordered to become transexual, or made to refer to others by their chosen pronoun. I personally think the disagreements about gender are being exaggerated in the media to create controversy and draw attention away from other more serious issues like the cost of living crisis.
"Yes, I know there will always be young people who will jump on a bandwagon to stand out." - It's not just getting a wacky haircut or dressing like a goth though it's causing irreversible damage. Some people were sterilized and had irreversible surgery because they got caught up in the social contagion. There are lots of detransitioners and the idea that if a child just tells you they're trans you don't question it and just affirm is crazy. Especially when studies have shown that the majority of children stop feeling dysphoric as they grow up maybe you're not one of them. And you say since childhood you felt you didn't conform but again there are lots of children who were fine and showed no signs of distress throughout childhood and then suddenly latch onto the idea as a fix for their issues, which it later turns out not to be.
Even though I knew from when I was a very young boy that I had the wrong gender, I do actually agree with you. I'm aware that 80% of the children who want to transition will eventually change their mind or realise that they are gay. As such, I believe that the choice to surgically transition should only be made by a wrongly gendered person when they are an adult. I also think that if people were given the freedom to be more gender fluid then there would be less desire for medical intervention - society generally tends to be more accepting of women embracing masculinity (wearing trousers, doing jobs traditionally male jobs, etc) but men are still likely to be targets of derision and violence if they even explore their femininity. I return to my original point though - transgender people should not be branded as 'delusional' or 'fantasists' or we may return to situation where gender surgery is not available and some people would be condemned to spend their lives imprisoned in the wrong body - because that is what it can feel like. I'm glad the gender debate exists though - I understand myself a lot better because of it. However, what really gets on my nerves is that the most vocal critics in the media of transgender people are usually also outspokenly religious! If I were an atheist, rather than agnostic, I could quite reasonably say that they are the 'delusional' ones...but they are lucky because their 'fantasy' is more widely tolerated.
ALMOST irrationally? ALMOST? She's kidding, right.? I mean, the way she said that, it can only mean she thinks they are actually rational, or at least a leetle teeny bit rational. When in fact the balance of their minds is disturbned and they are sick in their spirit to the extent they deny their bodies. That is a deep and serious pathology.
![Felix "Unfair" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Oswujxm2Ag0/mqdefault.jpg)
It’s interesting that the rise in Trans, Non-Binary, Gender Fluid etc etc has happened at the same time as the rise of social media. It certainly is a social contagion.
I felt some 'trans-ness' as a child, I meditated on it and eliminated it.. While.. with some help by getting the right balance of masculine and feminine energies in my life.
The Tickle versus Giggle legal case will test gender identity in Australia's constitution. This could reverse sex self ID legislation which allows men to alter their birth certificate and be legally recognised as women. A human rights claim has been brought by Roxy Tickle (a man who identifies as a woman) against Giggle (owned by Sall Grover) for refusing to let him use her female-only networking app called Giggle. Sal Grover defends she can reserve her media for biological women only. This is a case for women’s sex-based rights and protections in Australia. It may test the sex-based rights of women versus the rights of those claiming a gender identity inconsistent with their sex. It has import for all female spaces. Do women and girls across Australia have a right to female-only services, dedicated facilities and activities? Must women share these with men and boys who say they’re female?
Katherine Deves is part of the legal team aiding Sal Gover. The case may go as far as the High court.
Rightly said. Declaring one's self to be "non-binary" "gender fluid" etc. seems to be a badge of honor, a cool status symbol, especially for teens.
L for the adults who are genuinely gender non conforming
The sadness in her voice. Honestly, I love this woman so much. She speaks my opinion in a calm, articulate way. She is incredibly brave to stand up to this because I am sure not.
Thank god that we are now seeing sensitive and sensible discussions on this at last.
Why don't you just take your senistivity and pop it up your sensitive? Because what is needed is harsh and determined critical awareness and bold uncompromising criticism.
@@jackrainbow560 you just proved the point. Thanks👍
@@upnorth2421 Oh good.
Normies have been pushed to breaking point
These discussions have been going for a loooong time. The problem is the trend is so strong people prefer to follow than listen to reason.
As a teacher - i have certainly witnessed the ups and downs and faddieness of gender identity in the classroom over the past few years… most of the dysphoria i have encountered has been girls (most of them on the spectrum) who are struggling with puberty, and hey, someone has come along and told them they can be a boy to avoid the change they are going through… then they realise that nature is out of their control and deal with it they way we have for millennia
I’m race fluid, today I’m white, tomorrow I feel more black and on the weekend I might feel more Asian.
Good for you. If you're from a mixed-race parentage that's an entirely natural feeling.
@@Pants69 you're statement makes absolutely no sense. Perhaps you should read the original comment this is in response to???
@@Pants69 look I don't want to sound patronizing but what you've committed here is either a logical fallacy or setting up of a straw man argument, inclined towards the latter. Nowhere in my statement are exclusionary conditions for self-identifying race (unlike your construction). If had an interest or inclination in engaging on such a topic, I don't, I would have explicitly stated such.
@@Pants69 Thanks for understanding me pigdog, life as a race fluid is already hard enough without racist comments as RH makes!
Look at us! making up ideology in a comment section on YT! race is now "assigned at birth"
Kathleen js absolutely right about this issue. My nephew in law's wife is a fellow at the Uni Kathleen was hounded out of. She is woke, & expects everyone to agree with her views, even berating a family member at his brother's funeral on the subject. These people are nuts
They need to go to a mental institution.
His daughter is 14. That is the age when boys and girls are most susceptible to comparing yourself to others, social hierarchy gets established, and puberty makes you - for a lack of a better word, mental. No wonder her friends are talking about this stuff.
Life seemed so simple when I was a boy, and now at 54, it feels like a minefield out there - you cannot say this or that, for not wanting to offend.
Well, offence is taken, not given, and I find many people, especially younger people, seem unnecessarily super-sensitive about things in general.
So it's refreshing to see a mature conversation about this topic.
For me, there are more important things going on in the world 🌎 to concern ourselves with, like Ukraine 🇺🇦
They are defending their freedom, as well as ours...
IF, in the future, there is no freedom, then you shall have no choice, let alone being allowed to even think about it...
Literally every generation in the past has said the same thing. Every single one.
„Man, when I was young, this stuff seemed to be so simply, nobody questioned if the woman belonged into the kitchen… and today, you gotta be so careful, because people will get offended if you suggest that that‘s where ladies belong…“
„Yes, grandpa, we know. Modern days are scary…“
No offense, but do you really think whenever people your age complained about this stuff it was just them aging… but in YOUR case, it‘s actually true and there is a problem with the next generation? Couldn‘t it just be that, well… maybe you‘re just getting old, and that‘s how old people ALWAYS end up seeing the next generation?
@@c.m.9369 I rest my case 😁
@@c.m.9369 I don't think there has been people who want sterilize thenselves before. I feel like media usually skips that people who mess with their genitalia will be sterilized for rest of their life.
Life seems simple back then but we don't know in the background as we judge it from our present
@@c.m.9369 You're arguing that previously women were expected to be in the kitchen. Now the current trend is to suggest that anyone who likes being in the kitchen is a woman.
Same sexism, different decade.
She’s absolute right. End the cancer of Wokeness
This will die down, remember hipsters, emos.. this will calm down in time
So many problems from gender pronouns. Never been happier that my native language doesn't have them.
Same!
Some how we stopped talking about personalities and replaced it with "gender" .....we have innumerably personalities including a range of masculine and famine traits, both absolutely essential for the survival of the species....some seem to forget the relatively safe life we have in the west is a very recent development.....
The concept of gender being different to sex is flawed. Man & woman aren't social constructs that you can choose. The social constructs that you choose are the individual stereotypes associated with man or woman. For example, Dresses, makeup, caring attitude. The only thing that a person chooses is their own mix of male & female stereotypes. They don't choose "man", "woman" or "two spirit penguin". The only thing that is fluid are the individual stereotypes that a person chooses. No matter which stereotypes that you choose, it doesn't change whether you are a man or woman.
Proof that choice is not always a good thing
"A deep wickedness" perfectly put.
And parents are allowing this
Kathleen ❤
So, it's the new Goth-phase?
except Goths didn't insist that the entire world validated their lifestyle choices, nor did they insist children must be compelled to have tattoos if they liked a Cure song.
I know this is off topic but…We need to have a big science debate… where the public get to hear scientists debating gender /trans issues. Most people do not know much about science ( most people know little more than IGCSE or A level) so instead of inviting non medical/non scientific people and activists onto shows like this to talk about it, we need to have a line up of world class, highly respected scientists to read through the opposing teams research and then challenge each others research and data. Kids are being told online there are scientific studies proving all this trans stuff is correct… well let the scientists who believe that present their evidence to the scientists that don’t and then debate it. A civilised rigorous debate, based entirely on proven scientific facts would inform the public much more than these moral outrage reactions we see keep seeing on shows like this. We need to start getting technical! We need scientists to step forward and disprove and debunk the false information that is circulating - to as wide an audience as possible. MPs should come to listen in the audience but not take part. it will only work if the scientists are top drawer experts… with a proven track record of expertise and competence that is relevant. So not famous engineers or astronomers who have an opinion! We need debates on the science, free from emotion, free from politics, free from activists and their issues about rights! Just science! Is there any truth to these claims that is actually backed up by science… if so prove it! How conclusive is the evidence? The public has a right to see the evidence not just trust politicians who pass legislation ( and most politicians have no background in science either). Perhaps a hundred or more scientists and doctors could watch the debate and vote before and after they hear the evidence to show the public what the scientific community thinks about it all. I think if it were done properly it would get huge viewing figures and would protect many children from exploitation and manipulation.
Your common sense is at present unworkable because of censorship and the capture of this ideology in the workplace.
@@Now4wheels I would definitely like scientists to discuss the medical facts and data about people who are intersex. There is so much disagreement about classification, and the numbers of people who are genuinely intersex etc. I think it would be very helpful to have a rigorous scientific examination of the facts, but as I say leaving aside personal testimonies and feelings, as well as social politics (which is all highly subjective and would reduce the debate to a mere clash of unsubstantiated beliefs).
Seems obvious to talk with this about doctors, psychiatrist, psychologists and sociologists (not sure when philosophy comes into it), but also talking to actual trans people and being involved in the community as a process towards closing the loop?! And by that I mean adults who have or are in the process of transitioning. Not children who you want to yell at
Science lies and agrees with this nonsense now.
I am currently transistoring into a flying saucer however all that spinning around makes me quite dizzy.(Hymn,usually in the key of Dminor but sometimes C major if it turns sunny:-)
Stereotypes snapping back in place is not gonna help us at all
This fixation on gender is based entirely on stereotypes. If a boy likes pink he must be really be a girl! Well how about he might just be gender nonconforming, or he might grow up to be gay. People who are opposed to gender ideology are opposed to stereotyping; its supporters are obsessed with stereotyping.
I want to be called Loretta!
But Stan where's the fetus going to gestate in a box ?
Hello Loretta
Also, the unnecessary lock down that isolated young people from school and each other forced them onto social media even more. Yes, l know this gender id has been going on a lot longer than c19 but its been incremental
True
It's been going on *long* before that.
It's a restructuring of a social construct . So, it's just another social construct.
I think people are afraid to discuss or even mention this issue. It is a philosophy issue, and beyond the expertise of most people, including me.
Stock has Philosophy degrees from Oxford, St Andrews and Leeds so she has good grounding
you think poisoning and cutting up kids/people is a PHILOSOPHICAL issue???...👀
Knowing what men and women are isn't a difficult, "philosophical" concept.
Come on, be honest. Are these Qs really beyond you? Do you think human beings can change their biological sex? Do you think rapists should be housed in women's prisons? Do you think men should be able to compete in women's sports? Do you think disturbed, unhappy children should be allowed to consent to irreversible medical procedures? If people are afraid to answer 'no' to those Qs - which aren't difficult philosophical Qs - then it's not because they aren't equipped with philosophy degrees, it's because they are either idealogues/cultists or they are cowards.
Gender can be philosophical but sex is biology.
I think that the problem isn't gender fluidity, it's that gender still matter so much. People still identify themselves completely by their gender, what the real truth that people need to realise is that it doesn't matter what gender you are, it matters the kind of person you are. Life would be much much simpler if we could just treat each other as people rather than as genders with all the societal baggage that comes with them. Gender only matters when it comes down to practical considerations. If you want to bear a child, it matters, if you're deciding which prison to send someone it matters, but for the vast majority of things we give far far too much weight to gender.
I think you mean 'sex', don't you?
@@carltaylor6452 nah, gender exists on multiple levels. physical, social and spiritual. physical being what organs you have, social being all the junk we're taught to associate with certain genders (knitting and gossip being feminine, violence and football being masculine), and spiritual, which is where on the feminine masculine scale you feel you are on the inside. I would consider sex to just be the physical level. unless you mean sex as an activity, in which case it's another scenario where gender actually matters for most people.
@@jamesdawson2510 but in your original post you're clearly referring to sex and not gender. People don't 'identify themselves completely by their gender'. Most people don't have a gender identity. I don't. There's no evidence such a thing even exists. I'm a male. I don't know what it feels like to be a male except in a social context, and then only sometimes. Otherwise I agree with you.
@@carltaylor6452 Mmm, gender's personal, and I can only talk about my own experience. In general I feel more feminine than masculine, and I don't know how to define that using social norms, I do think that feminine/masculine are a duality that goes deeper than whatever activities we tag onto the extremes of that scale. Alone I feel that, in groups... I tend to feel genderless, I regard myself as a person first and that's how I tend to approach social situations. A lot of people though seem to define their personality and identity by the gender they associate with. You'll have seen the men who feel the need to assert their "masculinity" by being aggressive, loud and very into what our society attaches to "male", sex, sports and cars. Or the very "feminine" women who only seem to care about relationships and appearance. That's what I mean by identifying completely with a gender. The examples I gave are extreme, but you'll find most people do it to some degree. It's only recently that it was seen as acceptable if quirky for men to knit, or women to like cars.
What we choose as our expressions of ourselves in life are based on our sex. This is why a group of girls sit around and gossip and a group of boys outside of school play cricket football and make up games
The study was not cited, what study was that?
Swedish study, it's one reason the swedes, England, Finland, some US states have halted transitioning of children in favour of psychoanalysis care until they are 18. Any responsible adult would vere on the side of caution rather than debilitating a child with irreversible surgery and sterilisation.
Says more about the culture. Young people lost. What future do they have.
Wow, A.N. Wilson! How'd he get on this program? I am a massive fan of his writing.
Of course it is. It's absolutely blindly obvious.
How? And why does it matter? What’s the body count? Why is it anyone’s business? And is it possible, just maybe, that we have another political opportunist grandstanding on an issue to win easy points with the outrage brigade?
Fluid isnt solid. So gender fluidity suggest to me its not a solid so it's unpredictable
you could say the same thing for left handed people. The amount of people using their left hands exploded after we stopped "correcting" it and is now stable
apples and oranges do not make a good argument. no compelling as is "Oh I see now! it's exactly the same!!" you still haven't made a good argument that sexual fetish and delusions are "born this way" in spite of junk "scientific" studies produced by your lackeys
I don't remember left handed people ever trying to erase sex-based rights, or trying to sterilise people who didn't conform to stereotypes for their sex.
I identify as Right Handed, but i support the rights of Left-identifying folks.
@@noroomforsquares4483 what to used their left hands? silliest argument I've seen in awhile
Left handedness is an empirically observable and measurable phenomenon that exists in a consistent, stable minority through history and across cultures. Like homosexuality. Proportions level off once the group is no longer oppressed. The belief among those suffering from mental illness or trauma (often same sexual attracted) that one is mentally the opposite sex or neither sex contrary to all observable evidence of the body and that they must be “fixed” by chemically and surgically altering one’s sexed features rendering them sterile and castrated is a modern phenomenon with no easy comparison. It would be like if a person born left handed was fed the belief that that’s not ok to be a variation from the norm and instead that there’s something wrong with them, and that they need to be “transitioned” to become “trans-handed” aka have their left hand cut off and sewed back on backwards so they can have a damaged, minimally-functional dominant “right hand” rather than just be a leftie. 99% of those with early-onset (prepubertal) gender dysphoria are homosexual. 40% of those with any gender dysphoria at all presenting at gender clinics have moderate to severe (not even including mild aka high functioning) autism. Over 90% of trans people have an anxiety disorder, depression or both. 80% of trans-identifying people have a personality disorder. You either think it’s ok to castrate and sterilize these people or you don’t. If I were a doctor or therapist, I would point-blank refuse to facilitate a patient’s gender transition if they were untreated or symptomatic for even one of these issues. I don’t doubt there have been a consistent minority of people who experience distress over their sex and a desire to be the opposite sex…how we interpret that and help those people is entirely cultural though.
💯
Culture Wars!
It's an individual's choice in a free country. If it;s a phase, they will get over it. If it's not a phase then so be it. Regardless of which it is, they should be allowed to live their lives as they choose. It's up to the individual to choose. BTW, I'm a cis male that's almost 80 years old.
You're not a "cis male", you're just male. Nobody can casually live their life as they choose, laws have to be followed. You may choose to enter a female changing room or sports competition, but that wouldn't be legal, or decent, or fair.
I don't think anyone has an issue with you calling yourself or dressing yourself and presenting yourself however feels right for you - to demand others change their own perception, compel speech and change laws, services and institutions accommodate that to the detriment of others - usually women and children- is wrong imo
@@apebass2215 If I choose to call myself CIS, that is my right as stated in the US Constitution in the 1st amendment. You have NOTHING to say about it. There is no law preventing me just ignorant people like you that are trying to rule over me. Keep you fascism to yourself.
@@helench6097 The people that are changing the laws are the Evangelical Christian radicals. There have been trans people for a long, long time. Now the right-wing freaks are getting upsset.
If a young person has been sterilized and had irreversible surgery it's not so easy to get over that I imagine. Children can't consent to this.
This didn't seem like a well informed or open discussion tbh
Its cool to be trans? That would be amazing actually. It would mean people who want to punch down are losing.
He concludes with "this new thing" which needs to be challenged. That's not very precise, is it? Vague, BTW, is a synonym for lazy in Latin languages.
'morale'
You know who you could've asked the question directly to? Actual transgender or non binary individuals.
The whole "I don't understand it therefore it's probably not real therefore I don't believe them" argument only breeds more bigotry. Poorly done Times.
Put it this way, the man who believes he is Napoleon, isn't Napoleon, he is confused and needs help.
I do believe we've heard quite enough from your contingent..and now it's time for OUR viewpoints. I think I understand pretty well. maybe YOU could shut up and listen for once? just a thought.
Lol as if there’s any talking to them!
How do you define "actual transgender or non-binary individuals"?
@@apebass2215 they define it as anyone who says they are which, makes it anybody and nobody.
I tend to trust the assesment of people like Abigail Thorn and Laura Kate Dale than Kathleen on these issues.
Why would you trust the assessment of two men who haven't realised the difference between fantasy and reality?
I trust Buck Angel. He has been around for decades.
@@apebass2215 but they achieved their reality by becoming themselves.
@@powpowdingdong no, they're avoiding reality by pretending they're not men.
@@powpowdingdong the whole point is that different views are allowed. Transpeople are all individuals, not just defined by their trans identity. Trans-space in not a single hivemind.
Up to the individual to define who they are - mind your own bloody business.
Why are they going on about it on youtube if its none of our business 😂 tell that to them lol i dont care what they identify as i dont believe them. trans women are men... obviously.
We’ll mind our own business when this ideology stops hurting women and children and the LGB community.
It's my business if my speech is compelled, if my mother is not allowed to ask for a same-sex carer, if children in our society are being mutilated and sterilised, if rapists are being housed in women's prisons and committing sexual assaults. This has nothing to do with people 'just' defining themselves.
@@carltaylor6452 Yes! I won't even use their preferred pronoun to be polite until human rights are restored.
@@carltaylor6452 👏 exactly!
Gender fluidity is not a bad thing. It's part of the widening of acceptance in society. Plus a blurring of gender lines can only be a good thing given the much larger issue of toxic masculinity.
There is also the decent, kind, considerate and chivalrous type of men - they being the majority and behaving as men! Gender fluidity is a social and legal fiction which has caused much harm.
Masculinity is not a bad thing. Toxic masculinity is a problem. Gender fluidity is not a bad thing. Toxic gender fluidity is a problem. Both should be freely discussed and resolved.
You don't think it's "toxic" to claim men and women are merely costumes for the opposite sex to wear then?
@@apebass2215 not sure I understand the premise of your question. Are you claiming that gender dysphoria is the same as taste in fashion? If so I don't think anyone is making this argument (in good faith).
@@rhysholdaway why do you assume a diagnosis of gender dysphoria is required to identify as "trans"?
if "i don't believe in this" is her strongest argument then why on earth is she talking about it? this is some nonsensical culture war stuff instead of rational and science based discussion isnt it? I feel rather disappointed after listening trough this. I had hoped to hear some actual science and thoughts backed by other things than "i dont believe in this"
maybe you could check out BIOLOGY for the last several thousand years..might learn something relevant there
@@dragonfox2.058 Biology understanding has advanced considerably the last 2000 years or heck even the last 20 years and that is the whole point here. I came here to look for someone with authority in the field but instead i saw this clip with some random nobody with opinions. So yeah i did actually complain that i didnt learn something useful from this.
@@veriahl do you need someone in authority to explain what men and women are?
@@veriahl If you think Kathleen Stock is a random nobody you need to get out more! Biology hasn't 'advanced' beyond the knowledge that humans are mammals, mammals have two sexes, mammals can't change sex. If you think it has I'd love to see your evidence. 😅
Such obvious scapegoating, looking for someone to attack in order to hide the massive kleptocracy going on out of sight
Well done guys, keep up the good work !
which you are part of Paul
So women losing their rights to me in frocks is scapegoating? If this is progressive, God help us all.
There's nothing progressive about policies that are homophobic and remove rights and security from women and girls. People are waking up to the gaslighting. Terms like 'transphobic' and 'scapegoating' will no longer be able to prevent this discussion happening.
@@dragonfox2.058 Get back to your Nintendo
And so is feminism
Are you serious? You have no idea what gender is! 😂
Do you have any idea what men and women are?
How do you know whether you are a man or a woman?
Gender is a social construct, Sex is a Fact.
No, trans, or Gender Fluidity is not a social contagion! Social platforms and smart phones have added language we older didn't have. Being shocked and stigmatizing the social lives of kids is disingenuous, gaslighting and bullying!
Gender stereotypes fit everyone and everyone should be happy that way because that is freedom.😂
Zero firsthand knowledge or expertise
Literally, zero information in this video
Just an encouragement to hate and repress someone
you can't have the rights I fought for Paul
@@dragonfox2.058 I honestly would like to know which rights you are talking about?
I also believe in democracy, so tell me what you are thinking
@@paulinskipukprogressive4903 You cant have my privacy, sports or changing rooms and you MUST stay out of my prisons. YOU don't fool me. You're all just entitled men
@@paulinskipukprogressive4903 fascists don't believe in democracy or free speech. I think trance is fascistic
For one, the rights of the LGB community that transgenderism is mocking and destroying.
I respect Kathleen's right to have her own opinion and she should be given the freedom to speak it. What I dislike is her thinly veiled tone of disdain, dismissing the sincere beliefs of others as 'fantasy'. I compare gender to sport. For example, it baffles me why anyone would want to watch players kick a football about for hours every week, but I know they passionately want to and I am happy for them to go on doing that. If I was to wade in with my uninformed opinions about how the game should be played, fans would understandably be irritated. What I'm saying is that I wish people who have no experience of or interest in being transgender would stop stipulating their opinions about it as fact. Yes, I know there will always be young people who will jump on a bandwagon to stand out. When I was at college, people would flirt with the idea of being gay to attract attention. These poseurs will soon move on but there are some of us who have known since our childhood that we do not conform to traditional gender roles and for us, this is our life, not a fad or a fantasy.
That is not even what she said AND it's being forced on everyone! Pay attention !
@@howigotover798 At around 5:52 in the video she says that she 'punctures their fantasy version of events/fantasy version of the world.' That strikes me as arrogant and dismissive. She also acknowledges that the term 'contagion' has a negative context, yet doesn't choose a different description - and she infers that trans people are mistaken in their beliefs and/or want 'special' treatment. Most just want to free to express their opinion too and be safe. How is all this being forced on everyone? People are requesting help to physically change themselves to match their chosen gender - perhaps naively or too soon in some cases, but no one is being ordered to become transexual, or made to refer to others by their chosen pronoun. I personally think the disagreements about gender are being exaggerated in the media to create controversy and draw attention away from other more serious issues like the cost of living crisis.
"Yes, I know there will always be young people who will jump on a bandwagon to stand out." - It's not just getting a wacky haircut or dressing like a goth though it's causing irreversible damage. Some people were sterilized and had irreversible surgery because they got caught up in the social contagion. There are lots of detransitioners and the idea that if a child just tells you they're trans you don't question it and just affirm is crazy. Especially when studies have shown that the majority of children stop feeling dysphoric as they grow up maybe you're not one of them. And you say since childhood you felt you didn't conform but again there are lots of children who were fine and showed no signs of distress throughout childhood and then suddenly latch onto the idea as a fix for their issues, which it later turns out not to be.
Even though I knew from when I was a very young boy that I had the wrong gender, I do actually agree with you. I'm aware that 80% of the children who want to transition will eventually change their mind or realise that they are gay. As such, I believe that the choice to surgically transition should only be made by a wrongly gendered person when they are an adult. I also think that if people were given the freedom to be more gender fluid then there would be less desire for medical intervention - society generally tends to be more accepting of women embracing masculinity (wearing trousers, doing jobs traditionally male jobs, etc) but men are still likely to be targets of derision and violence if they even explore their femininity. I return to my original point though - transgender people should not be branded as 'delusional' or 'fantasists' or we may return to situation where gender surgery is not available and some people would be condemned to spend their lives imprisoned in the wrong body - because that is what it can feel like. I'm glad the gender debate exists though - I understand myself a lot better because of it. However, what really gets on my nerves is that the most vocal critics in the media of transgender people are usually also outspokenly religious! If I were an atheist, rather than agnostic, I could quite reasonably say that they are the 'delusional' ones...but they are lucky because their 'fantasy' is more widely tolerated.
It would be terrible if children expressed their anxiety, thats not healthy according to this deep thinking philosopher.
That wasn't what she said at all.
Wow does she work directly for Putler!??!!
who's Putler? something else y'all have made up?
ALMOST irrationally? ALMOST? She's kidding, right.? I mean, the way she said that, it can only mean she thinks they are actually rational, or at least a leetle teeny bit rational. When in fact the balance of their minds is disturbned and they are sick in their spirit to the extent they deny their bodies. That is a deep and serious pathology.