Sad. Really sad. I am 57 years old and have been a mechanic/technician for over 35 years. I got more and more disenchanted with my job as cars became more and more complicated, with parts a car does not need. And now this lack of serviceability thing. It will get worse. We are headed toward totally disposable cars, and cars that are "connected" and can be tracked and controlled remotely. I became more and more frustrated with the way things were going that I bailed out of the business, and started my own business, specializing in vintage cars only. I am a total believer in repairing not replacing. Yes you may need to replace some parts, but not usually complete assemblies. Old cars can be rebuilt over and over again. And they are simple, a pleasure to work on, and a pleasure to drive for a true car enthusiast. Parts availability varies with the make and model. Some vintage cars, like a '65 Mustang, can practically be built completely from parts catalogs.Some vintage cars can be hard to get parts for, and I have had to improvise. Any good mechanic should know how to improvise. Most of today's "technicians" are taught to go by the book" Many of them don't have a really good understanding of what they are working on. Very few could rebuild and engine or transmission. Even fewer could build a car designed for racing. I have been a drag racer since before I got a drivers license. I have built several drag race cars from the ground up. And they worked as intended. I built them more for durability than absolute speed. Anyway, I am completely disgusted by what cars have become. I will stick with vintage cars for the rest of my life.
What I want from newer cars is only more safety and less fuel consumption. What I've seen in my very short career of hobbyist tinkering with cars is that everywhere is some plastic cover that is totally useless. ie. a plastic cosmetic engine logo cover on top of valve cover. Useless. Another huge thing is the automatic transmission like discussed in the video. As a consumer I have no possibility to fix it. This is not going to a good direction.
What I want in cars is more mechanical things and less electronics. Watch Eric's video comparison between mechanics and technicians. I am a mechanic. I worked as a technician for a long time, but finally just couldn't deal with it anymore. I'm kind of a purest when it comes to cars, and I just don't think computers and cars go together. As for hybrids, well, I'd just rather not go there.
vulcan1753 I don't think that electrical components should be closed away from cars because I think that precision is good for internal combustion engines and less fuel consumption can be obtained with them and also makes the car more secure. What I hate with electronics is that software side is sometimes too time consuming and there should be some kind of standards to be set with software and components. What I've noticed is that mechanical stuff is the exact same in almost all cars meaning ie. doing the valve timing or changing shocks or coilovers but the electrical side varies SO MUCH between vehicles that it is actually the main reason that takes so much time ie. is the MAF sensor really broken? is the wires that are cut? is the connector corroded or is just loose etc. and there you are going and diagnosing the whole circuit.
The main reason I gave up working on newer cars is because of the electronics. I don't have a problem with electronic ignition, because it doesn't have a computer. But I am a carb guy through and through. And I can't stand those check engine lights. I grew up working on '60s cars and love them.
+PhunkBustA I did that with my BMW keys (2002 325i). The battery eventually wore out and needed to be replaced. The key was injection molded, so I had to cut it open to get to the battery, but a replacement battery was only a couple of bucks and you need to look really closely under good light to see where I solvent-welded it back together.
What are you talking about? Sealed usually means welded or rivited closed it's a simple fix with a drill and a tap. Heck Erick The Car Guy has serviced sealed for life components such as the rear window motor on the van.
And this is why I drive a 1990 Camry. I can service anything on it in my driveway. It is THE reliable car. The biggest repair I've had to do on it was replacing a control arm, and that was just to get a smoother ride.
Those Japanese Camrys were bulletproof! Can't say the same about the 1992+ ones! Haha. But I can say that even those 92+ camrys were very easy to repair, and that when the engineers were designing the car, the engineers' primary goal was to not at least fuck the 2nd owner over. In my opinion this started all going downhill in the late 90s.
I have a much simpler dollars and cents theory of non-serviceable heavy components. Its about shifting labor costs from expensive markets to inexpensive markets. Let the $100/hr US technician labor swap the part with a book value of 1 hour. Then let the near-3rd world manufacturer/supplier rebuild the core for 7 hours at $1.29/day salary with no benefits, little safety, and no security. Or shift the labor cost of rebuilding the component in the US to the vehicle consumer who is forced to pay an astronomical price for the dealer-only non-servicable part for a newly manufactured unit. (see how they profit in both directions on that last one - save a ton on warranty service labor, and make top dollar selling limited supply parts). There is another popular auto-repair channel on youtube that showed a "non-servicable" $1500 viscous coupler (Kia Sportage) being removed and easily repaired for around $65 in parts (It was literally as serviceable as anything else on the car...it simply required to be unbolted, taken off the vehicle, taken apart and replace a bearing and seal).
You're spot on with the remote diagnostics. The aviation industry has been doing this for years. On a modern passenger jet, the engines are monitored and report a wealth of performance data back to the manufacturer on a continuous basis. They can actually diagnose many problems and have the parts delivered to the destination airport by the time that the aircraft lands. Aviation did it first because the costs are easy to justify for multi-million dollar jet engines on aircraft that cost thousands of dollars per hour when they isn't flying. Once a technology is developed it quickly moves to less cost sensitive applications.
hahaha just like when your parents told you, you would go blind if you played with it to much, just made you want to find out for sure! I know my eyesight is still 20/20
Using the auto transmission as an example, I would rather pay $100-$150 to have oil and filter changed four of five times over the life of the car instead of paying $2000 or more for a transmission.
I'm reminded of the BMW 328i that Motor Trend long-term tested a year or so ago. One morning, with no warning, the computers displayed a fault code for the power steering, and there was no power steering (electric rack). The entire steering rack had to be replaced.
computiNATEor To be fair, one day with no warning the power steering hose asploded on my 1960 dodge and I had to run around and find a shop to make me a new one.
Martin Espinoza Sure. My 2003 BMW has two such items: sealed headlight assemblies. There are two motors designed to drive an auto-leveling mechanism through two arms that are less than $10 per assembly. An entire new assembly costs upwards of $700, for a total of $1400. -_-
I hate modern cars. What Eric said here is pretty much exactly my stance on it and has been for years. Thing is, I also believe modern vehicles purposefully make the lives of DIY'ers harder to force them back to the dealership and give them more money. The future, to me, is a place where the average mechanic is no longer needed, and the manufacturer directly repairs vehicles at an extortionate price, because every vehicle will have a unique arsenal of tools to do any job. There's an extremely thin line between customer satisfaction and profits on many companies priority list, and sometimes, they just put the wrong thing first on one too many occasions. I kinda feel this is whats happening now. Also, screw having any complex onboard computers. Not only do i deem this a massive security risk (As software is almost always crackable) but I also favor mechanical linkages over electrical any day just simply from a reliability and fixability standpoint.
One of ETCG's points in another video was that average diy and average mechanic are worlds apart. Part of that same video was how he liked to work on Hondas because they didn't require an Armada of tool-trucks to be able to work on, UNLIKE other contemporary vehicles, which DO. A former dealership mechanic turned down working on a 2001 Honda transmission because he "didn't have the tools". As for "crackable" electronics, any reprogrammable ECU is technically that, and if something like a built-in GPS or Bluetooth link to your smartphone breaks, it's usually so expensive to replace that warranties word their contacts around them, even the "extended"ones you pay extra for at the dealership, that it's often cheaper to buy a discrete device to replace the functionality: and like a tool box, take it (or them, lol) with you when you sell.
I can imagine the manufacturing and dealership ceo's discussing this sort of profit loss from having other mechanics do serviceable work. The American economy has become a service economy and less of manufacturing. They may want to take the foreseeable profits of the mechanic/ technician industry while they can.
isaac vegas Rýán Túçk Thingamajigs One thing I haven't seen you guys talk about is how much safer cars are now. And how much smarter. Yea things are more expensive and Yeah, they become less serviceable to the avg person, but the avg person wont EVER do service on their car. Granted, people like us who enjoy working on our cars, get the short end of the stick on this but there are still ways to improve your car.
I have a '72 Dodge Polara and I feel the same way. No special equipment needed, I can (and have) repaired everything on that car so far. The only thing I haven't touched is the carburetor. No one has ever showed me, everyone just says to get a book on it, but what happens when I have a question? Its not like i'm sitting in class and can just raise my hand. Thats the only thing I might replace with a TBI or one of the other EFI systems you can just bolt on. One time I replaced a quadrajet whose secondaries weren't opening up with a remanufactured one. Put a vac gauge on it, tuned it, idled fine but backfired all to heck in gear. Wondering whats the best way I can learn about them.
"The future, to me, is a place where the average mechanic is no longer needed, and the manufacturer directly repairs vehicles at an extortionate price, because every vehicle will have a unique arsenal of tools to do any job." that is funny becuse really old cars like 1920 came with a set of tools to work on them because there was no real stranded for that stuff.
It's kinda scary thinking about this. What's going to happen to us "common mechanics"? Another reason why all cars I buy are made in the early 90's... I can work on them.
Joseph Inman You're like me, man. I have money for a new car, but I only buy cars from the late 70s to the early 90s. New cars just aren't worth the money. The cars I like from the 70s and 80s are getting harder and harder to find though.
when i first started, as a 16 year old apprentice, one of my jobs was to remove the old, worn linings on brake shoes and fit new linings. The actual shoe itself was for the life of the car and the linings were the consumable...how things have changed. But, yes, the engineers even know exactly how many revolutions that engine will turn Now, the whole car is a consumable, or more so than a car was 40 years ago ( my dad still has the car i remember going to buy from the dealership, it was a day out for the whole family and we spent the rest of the day just driving. And he may be 80 years old now, and the car hasn't moved for the last 12 years but will he let me BUY it from him and put it back on the road? will he hell!! crotchety old bastard he is )
I have been told one of the reasons for sealed transmissions is to prevent customers or independent shops from dumping incorrect fluid or un-approved additives into the unit. I have personally known people that dump Lucas into brand new transmissions leading to a warranty replacement.
Reminds me of the time I went to an auto electrician, and seeing a big pile of old alternators. I think most of them were old and serviceable, yet still replaced by non serviceable ones, simply because it's cheaper and easier.
you are perfectly right Eric. I've read articles and talked to people, (even to some friend engineer that works in auto manufacturer industry in Germany) about big manufacturers investing several times more money in controled wearing out of materials used. Plus that they do more and more changeable parts, clutches for example. 15 y's ago we had a massive flywheel, and all we had to change was a press plate, disk, and a bearing (for a VW Golf that was between 250-300$). And then manufacturer came with the great ideea that customer should change flywheel to meanwhile the repair so they came up with the double mass flywheel with shock absorbers, and they made them so they DO fail within milage of other moving clutch componets. And sometimes even faster. I've changed clutches on some Hyundai Santa Fe's (bout 3 by now), just because the f-wheels were bad and noisy while disk, plate and bearing were like almost new condition. Not to mention that the flywheels price for that Golf mentioned earlier exceeds 600$. In earlier models i've succesfully tried to weld together the 2 part flywheel, and trust me (shock absorber or not), you can't feel shit while shifting, and the car is driving for 4 y over now. Engineers worked that out, cause on later models they made flywheels so that there is absolutely NO position on them to weld together. Sorry i just talked about clutches, they do that with every part, they have the resources to invest in things like this, make them fail at a certain time, or milage. I feel like i am at war with manufacturers with every part i try to fix, or make it better and more durable than they did, cause I KNOW THEY WANT IT TO FAIL. They make money out of this so they can invest more in controled wearing. But when it comes to environment...they just throw in some cheap software to the vehicle to fool emission testing, so they sell more cars.....more cars= more parts......get me?
That is a great concept. That last bit about cars getting IP addresses and sending automatic emails to dealerships. Crazy. Soon enough we will only be servicing Tesla batteries and sensors and no combustion engines but probably not for a while
The sad thing is that these issues have done an effective job at closing the market to all but those working at the dealership. Outwardly it is illegal to force competitors out, but when they design the system to require specialized repair software and training, most generic competitors bow out because of the practicality. We all know what that means. My brother in law recently was told that his hybrid Ford needs a new CVT. $15,000 quote to replace a transmission, barely out of warranty.
I'll bet the dealership told him that they'd make a deal with him so that to trade it in and make a down payment on a new Ford would be much cheaper, eh? Boom, they just sold a new vehicle. Imagine how often that happens in dealerships across the country.
Absolutely. And since they can write off the expense of the repair, the fix is done wholesale and the car is sold back into the market, retail. No wonder dealers' kids live in the biggest house on the block. The only pushback we as consumers can offer is to pay attention to resale values. I'd like to see more CVT repairs here on youtube, but dealers almost never post videos here. And, extended warranties make it difficult for independent technicians to gain experience.
Well, there's another reason transmissions are sealed. Diy "mechanics" are likely to buy DW-1 and try it in their CVT just because there wasn't anybody at Walmart that knew anything except how to read "For Honda and imports" on the oil bottle.
Vance Cole Interesting and insightful. I never thought of that. I believe my neighbor fell for that. She traded her perfectly fine Impala in for a new Sonic. It simply needed brakes and tires. Some people can't seem to stomach paying a thousand dollars for a one time repair. Yet, they have no problem signing a loan that becomes a financial anchor for 5 years. It is all about what they can afford each month. Also, a car is much easier to finance than an auto repair. The dealers make out like bandits off the poor financial condition of their customers.
I have seen this my own life, I remember when if you saw a water pump with a leaking seal or worn bushing or bearing you could get a rebuild kit with new seals bearing and in some cases impeller and rebuild the pump. Use a Puller to pull off the impeller, press out the shaft. Knock out the old seals and bearing or bushing, reverse the order to install the new parts. I haven't seen a car with a water pump you could rebuild since the mid Sixties.
Nice video, Eric. I tend to agree that modular components are the future. The sad part of that is that mechanics will become a thing of the past and those who do choose to go into auto repair will be little more than fitters and will not have any diagnostic skill whatsoever. As a DIY'er and a car guru that really saddens me. The ability to own and to service your own car is in my opinion one the greatest automotive traditions. Making them to where they cannot be serviced will take cars from the art form that they are and make them nothing more than transportation.
As someone with experience on the OEM side of things, I'd say you're partially right. But you have to consider the broader scope of the cost of making a particular component serviceable. As the complexity and electrification of all systems increases, so does the complexity of the repair. That drives the need for more expensive and complex special tools, and more technician training (which costs the shop, the tech, and the company). The supplier network must be put in place to support parts into the future, and service information has to be developed for the shop manual. For some parts then, the cumulative costs of the support network outweigh the cost of replacement.
I stumbled on this video and realized how much I miss the old ETCG1 intro! That's a classic dude. You should bring it back once in a while. Still enjoy your videos. Thanks for doing what you do.
I used to have a 95 acura legend and I always wondered why it shifted so hard, I thought it was a problem then just learned it's just how those old Hondas are. I loved that car, never had one problem with it
a few of our customers have Volvo tractors with Volvo drive trains and they don't make the iDrive transmissions serviceable. you have to replace the entire transmission. I can somewhat see that on a car or light truck, but that's absurd being on a heavy truck, that's why i love Allisons, easy to work on and great service manuals.
this is my favourite ETCG1 video. I live in a pretty modular lifestyle, and I see how effective and efficient it is, and I like the idea of making cars more efficient, affordable, and cheaper. But there are scary things associated with where that's going - cars that won't be worked on by the human hand. I think working on cars is crucial to the appreciation of what cars do and why they respond to inputs and conditions. I think that's why everyone should have some basic understanding the same way we should know how to cook food - because it's a vital element in our life. The greatest lesson I've learned from you, Eric as well as just being under cars - is that you can see the evolution of a car's technology the same way you would watch the progression of ingenuity itself or even biologically - things fit into place to be as efficient and effective as they can in order to make a collection of moving parts get us from a to b. I hope I don't end up handcuffed to an apple computer of a car - a lightbulb like everybody else's. As change becomes inevitable, I want my car to have character, quirks, and at least some ability for me to customize it and care for it. Other than that, I'm a huge fan of the latest tech making our lives better. One thing I've been very interested in is converting a hydrocarbon car into an electric one. Might Car Mods did a set of episodes and they found a following of cool, techy, but also nerdy dudes that have a passion for these conversions and I think it's cool. I think it'd be even cooler if they could make them energy self sufficient, with solar or whatever. But maybe that's far far into the future.
the other side of non serviceable parts is that they cant be as easily modified,or messed with. by customers. like putting the wrong type trans fluid in and ruining a perfectly good trans. or using substandard grease in balljoints or over filling and causing seals to blow out. I've seen strange thing done by well intentioned owners who didn't know what they were doing.
hey eric, the one major point I think you missed in the manufacturing standpoint is leasing. the trend of leasing verses buying that came the market in my opinion is the driving force behind non-serviceable components. after a 3 year lease most vehicles have the highest turn over value. dealers buy these cars lease them out for 3 years then dump them at the auction. they want that customer back to lease another one. minimizing the down time of that vehicle is crucial so simplifying the repair process is key. on top of the fact that the contracted vendor of the failed part is being held liable. another thought about it is, when an airbag light came on, say for a driver airbag module, you were not allowed to pin test any connectors. basically you put an airbag in. that didn't fix it you replaced the control unit. that didn't fix it you put a harness in and that completes the entire system. maybe manufactures used the data of fixed right first time and overall experience of the repair from the customer standpoint and are trying to incorporate that into other systems? what do you think?
I totally agree. I saw it happen in the manufacturing plant i worked at....gone were the days of in house building of the machines that make the parts...Companies started making platforms that could have any number of things attached to do what ever you wanted to do in the plant. Most of the machines evolved to the point you no longer had to troubleshoot (diagnose) problems. The machine would tell you what was wrong and one of the machines i worked on had a network connection so you plug your laptop into it and it would show you where the fault was, how to remove it/adjust it.
Just found this alternate channel that you have Eric. I like that you discuss "everything else" automotive besides repair. Great channel. I'm enjoying all the vids. Thanks for sharing!
Yep. It think you're spot on Eric. I'm not looking forward to the days when it's hard to find a used car that I'm actually able to service myself. But, that's about 40yrs out, I hope.
great discussion as usual. there are a lot of pros and cons to non serviceable components. I guess a big con is cost, but a big pro for some stuff is safety and ease of replacement. a couple of example of good non serviceable parts are quick struts and hub/bearing assemblies. no messing with spring compressors that suck and are dangerous, and not using a press that sucks and is dangerous to change bearings. of course they cost a bit more, but I support these, I don't support the no dipstick, sealed trans, etc.
I agree. Electronics and appliances are like this and have been for some time now, with IC chips, surfaced mounted components and smartboards. When they break you either throw them away or change out the whole part.
Great video. I agree. I saw this when working at Advance. Older cars were easier to work on. But on the newer cars, things like batteries and light bulbs were increasingly impossible. Checking and adding fluids wasnt always straightforward. I have no desire to own many of the new cars out today.
Speaking of going toward modular, in the near future we'll just swap the whole car for another when a component breaks. The cars will be so electronic and cheap that we'll just treat them like shopping carts.
ETCG1 I will still be driving my 2003 Honda Accord V6 - it might have a million miles on it but it will still be running - she barely has 105k on it - just over actually - dam the timing belt/water pump repair went up from my 97 Accord from 600 to a Grand - Eeek!
Very interesting subject Eric, I believe you are right about the future of servicing vehicles. I hope that these changes in the automotive business don't screw us as the customer! Take care and thanks again for another great video.
Thanks Eric for another awesome video. I am a fan from half way around the world! Having owned an early 90s Honda I am in awe of how well designed, engineered and manufactured they were. Those cars must have cost Honda a lot of money to make. You raise a good point about modular design, like it or hate it, that's the way of the future. Call me old fashioned, but I'm grateful my (current) car doesn't have hackable IP based technology. I mean what could possibly go wrong?
I recently retired as an industrial auto machine mechanic, much of this equipment was very specialized, held quite a bit of liability and you almost had to be certified in order to work on them, that meant many trips to manufacturers for in plant school for almost every different kind of machine worked on. We were true repair mechanics in every shape of the word. By the time I got out the new guys were really no longer repair mechanics but glorified parts changers. You would connect a controller pad to the processor, it would tell what was wrong, you would remove what ever module contained the bad parts, pop a new module in and then the controller would reprogram everything to the original settings, with only minor tinkering with parameters. Modules were sent back, rebuilt in factory or sub-contractor and put back on the parts out shelf, for a much higher factory profit, they were selling you all the parts in the module, and for those "special" customers (almost anyone who asked) usually with a 20 to 30% discount (still a 70% profit on many parts), most of which could be re-used when rebuilt.
I love how my 98 honda accord bangs into gear. it's just a lot more satisfying that a smooth gear change. the gear changes plus the sound of the 3 liter v6 makes it so enjoyable to drive, but not as good as if it was a manual.
.000000000000000000001% of consumers buy their cars filtering their decision through serviceability. Is it any surprise at all that manufacturers have responded to this apathy?
Interesting ideas about the future. Some brands have really embraced these things. I work for Volvo. And as far as the modular platform goes; Volvo is launching a whole new line of cars starting last year (this MY). The new platform is called the SPA platform. Or scaleable product architecture. So basically all of the cars will be a modular design, they just simply make a few tweaks here and there and change the size. As far as diagnostics go, for years Volvo has used bluetooth to connect cars to computers, albeit through a little box we plug in to the car. With the new plarform, however, the cars all do have an IP address and once the system is up and running, we will be able to connect with the car via Wi Fi as soon as it's within range. The future will be very interesting.
AC clutch. you can get the magnet, but not the front plate,springs, and rivets. $20 parts kit would save you from spending $600 on a complete compressor.
The whole thing with the vehicle emailing you when there is a problem and telling the dealership is actually out there, like when you need an oil change you'll get and email saying when would you like to schedule an appointment with the dealership, pretty crazy stuff
good discussion. just to add the car will email you and the dealer, in case of an emergency lock the doors reroute itself straight to the dealer for the repair with or without your consent.
This trend can be seen in other industries as well. for example, lets consider lawn mowers. If you buy a cheaper lawn mower, the manufacturer saves by making a non-adjustable carb. I read alot of these comments, and alot of people seem to think its a big scheme to suck your money away and close out other markets and kill the aftermarket and whatnot. But really, it all comes down to money. I can say this as I've worked as a design engineer in the auto industry. make the part cheaper to make, make the car cheaper to sell, increase volume. and yeah, saving 10c on a part which goes on maybe 2 million cars a year is 200k/year savings. thats easily 2 salaries. Theres alot of politics involved, but you have to consider the average consumers desires. trust me the companies aren't out to get you. we just don't represent the average.
9: 30 in other words we are talking about planned obsolescence. I hate planned obsolescence because it's a waste of money, the parts in question end up in in a landfill, thereby increasing our carbon footprint. If we can land spacecrafts on mars without a hitch and make them last far more than they were intended, we can do the same with cars. But the car makers would have none this. The bottom line for them is to maximize profits. What matters worse is the insatiable materialistic and never ending thirst from the consumer that wants something new every year and the car makers churn them out with little regard for safety and ways to make them easily reparable. The problem with cars are not cars, it's our lust for them akin to a fetish which makes our relationship with cars a dysfunctional one. Rest assured if we really cared for our environment, if we did not see our cars as extensions of ourselves but merely as a device that gets us from point A to point B, this world would be a better place. There is a big difference between what we want and what we need and what we need is to make planned obsolescences obsolescent.
If it connects to the dealership it'll be like the insurance modules that detect "hard braking" and "hard acceleration", they'll tell you you've voided your warranty by driving your car too harshly or something therefore making warranties very convoluted.
The new Accord is VERY serviceable Eric. The engineers at Honda really thought of their service technicians when designing all of the normal service points in the car. I just wish manufacturers would go back to greaseable suspension components!
I've been working on Hondas for more than 15 years. I know for a fact they're not as serviceable as they used to be. That said, we'll see what the future holds.
ETCG1 I know you've been working on Hondas for 15 years, but hear me out. Just as an example Eric, a lot of the items on the 05 Civic I had are much easier to get at on this new Accord. Oil filter is right next to the oil pan, vs on the back end of the block next to the firewall, an auto tensioner on the serpentine belt vs. 2 belts and manual adjusters that were knuckle scrapers, pcv valve is on the valve cover vs. hidden under the intake manifold next to the firewall, no timing belt, no power steering pump, water pump is out in the open and driven by the serpentine belt, clips instead of bolts holding the air filter box down, 1 cabin filter vs 2. Those are just a few of the easier serviceable items I noticed, plus there's a shit ton of room under the hood to get to these things.
A lot of manufacturers will have just a few platforms, say a RWD platform, and then a FWD or AWD platform. They can usually be stretched or widened slightly, but are otherwise similar enough to be made on one manufacturing line.
yup. I see wheel bearings where the replacement is done by replacing the entire hub. Convenient, but five times more expensive. Another example are brake calipers, although it's the reman industry rather than the engineering. You can't buy slide pins or brackets anymore, but you have to buy entire calipers.
The other side of it, is that when you have a stateside mechanic rebuild your brake caliper for you, you're paying $80/hr labor rates. If you have him "remove old/bolt in re built unit," some dude in Bangledesh or Juarez does the rebuild for...$4/hr. It's certainly more cost-effective to exploit the cheap labor...the question is, is the quality of work comparable?
Subaru has been using a similar "modular" body concept since the 90s. While the chassis IS a unibody, the subframes, suspension parts etc interchange with a few minor changes. This platform has evolved a couple times, mainly in the multi-link rear suspension. the front strut assemblys from a 1990 legacy bolt directly onto a 2014 impreza. I think it's impressive!
I agree, look at front wheel bearings, you used to have inners, outters, races and seals, now you have a hub bearing that gets replaced as a unit. As for a common chassis, Ford did that years ago with the "fox" body, it was the platform for the Mustang, Fairmont and Futura, as you mentioned the parts can be interchanged. So if you want a fast ratio steering rack from a Mustang in your Fairmont it simply bolts in. My 09 Taco doesn't have a transmission dipstick, so any service will not be done in my driveway. I also think the manufacturers have built this sort of thing into the newer vehicles so you can't work on it at home. Nothing like putting a gun to someones head to make them bring the vehicle back to the dealer for service.
Eric, they are engineering in obsolescence. A sealed trans will have fluid that is there for the life of the box but it will break down eventaully, when it does the trans will develop faults and require repair. Modular trans components are not available so a complete box required usually making it not a cost effective repair and the vehicle is now scrap.
As a 2nd year engineering student, I can tell you the first thing I was taught this year is that cost is the most important factor in deciding which material you're going to use to build a part. It's kind of sad, because it seems that life has come to a point where cost is more important than quality and only the big bosses' pockets get filled and we are stuck with shitty cars.
you should take a business class too. No one wants to pay 70,000 for a car. If you want to get into how much machining costs and the materials, it adds up really quickly.
As a consumer cost is a significant reason for purchasing one item over another. As some one who was going in to engineering don't you fell as if they are teaching you to work inside of a box and your being trained to be somebody lackey so to speak? At least for the first half of your career.
There is the mkb-platform for VW, Audi, Seat and Skoda, it's in production since 2003. Volvo S40, Mazda 3 and Ford Focus is made on the same platform. Ford Mondeo and Mazda 6 also same platform.
Well, how you drive the car has a very great effect on how long the component last. I know a guy who has blown the head gasket in every vehicle he has owned. I have gotten 60000 km on the original brake pads on the last car I owned driving only in the city. On the front pads I had 80% left on the outside pads and the insides were gone. the rear pads had 50% left. I follow the speed limit. when the light turns red I take my foot off the gas pedal or kick off the cruise. Why charge 60km/h to slam on the brakes at a red light? When I do this often I pass the cars stopped at the red light who just zoomed by me at 70km/h. It also has a great effect on your fuel economy. When I first started driving I followed the speed limit. When I drove my father's 1983 Pontiac Parisienne it got 20mpg. He used to drive 70km/h and got 10mpg out of the same car. I used to have a co-worker who complained about the gas mileage of his car. I used to see drive 80km/h in town, getting 150-200 km per tank in the city. I told him what happened with the Parisienne he was skeptical but a week later he said he thought I might be on to something.
You are spot on and this is exactly what Chrysler did in the 1980's with the K platform. The K car was obviously the Aries K and the Reliant K, but it was also the platform for the first Dodge Caravan minivan, Dodge Dynasty, and even the successor to the nameplate, the Dodge Spirit. Many, many vehicles were built on the K platform. Take the same platform that is proven and then extend it to make a different vehicle. Same underpinnings, same interior components, same engine and transmission, etc. It just makes sense from a business perspective and that's what we see automakers doing these days, just like Chrysler did in the 1980's.
Thinking the same thing. The K platform is pretty much still the same item under current mini-vans. On the sealed transmission. I don't see an issue really. If anything it will keep the oil chains from dumping in whatever fluid they have on hand and screwing up the trans.From a shops point of view it is also a much faster turn around to pull a trans, stuff a new/rebuilt one in and ship the failed unit out for overhaul. No different really than a crate engine.
Hi Eric, just started watching some videos and this title struck me. as I started to watch and you got into the segment about a GM in modular vehicles I remember back to Alan Alda have a special on PBS about driver cars this was a long time ago probably in about 15 years ago and they talked about that where the suspension in the situation of the name was all one and you just change the body design if you can refer back to it it's a really great episode on a lot of detail in where we were in where we are today
You are right on track with your analysis of what manufactures are doing for the future. At GM one platform fits many models. When GM made the Chevy engine their base engine in the Olds, Pontiac, and Buick that was the beginning of the thought process to maximize production and cut cost. GM used the KISS theory to build their products. Slush boxes are not for every mechanic's dream compared to engine repair. Now the automatics are at 6,7, and 8 speeds the difficulty in repair has increased. And if you are not a mechanic who repairs these boxes on a daily basis it could tax your patience. So modular units will become FRUs (field replaceable units).
I think part of the modular design has to do with the flat rate system. Its hard for manufactures to pay for repairs where no parts were purchased but something was just taken apart and cleaned or tweaked. With repairable components the manufacturer is more open to bogus warranty claims and substandard repairs. When I was an apprentice the old mechanic I worked with discussed every job in the shop with me and we very rarely bought a starter, alternator, carburetor, transmission, engine etc. We fixed the stuff inexpensively and professionally. Nowadays I don't see to many mechanics that even know how to fix components and if they do they still don't have time to teach an apprentice because they are just trying to make a living on flat rate. Hey Eric how about getting an apprentice?
I hope the industry is not going this way, my neighbor an old guy complained for 45 minutes to me about his transmission that was not serviceable. He was having a problem with the 6 month old car. He lived over a hundred miles from the nearest dealership and did not have faith the car would make it tot he dealer to get the car fixed so he would have to chance breaking down on the road. If the industry does go this way I think there will be a market for people who build aftermarket transmissions with dip sticks. Just like there is still a market for people who like stick shift transmissions.
Sorry Phillip. It's a joke. there not putting grease fittiings on stuff because of cost. This way they sell you a part. don't want you greasing parts and making them last longer.
+phillip lancaster i honestly dont think its necessary. id rather all wheel bearings be a hub assembly, rather than having to press them out. i just changed a rear wheel bearing on my wife's altima. all i had to do was remove the brake hardware, 4 bolts and the hub assembly comes out. put the new assembly in, done. 220k on the original bearing assembly is a pretty damn good service life IMO. need to do the other side as well but its not nearly as bad as the other was. the part was 25 bucks, and the half hour i spent changing it was a lot easier than taking it to a shop and paying a couple hundred to have it replaced, or taking the assembly to have it pressed out (which if you know someone is nothing, but for others probably the same price as the part i changed). sure you can use a manual press, but without an impact those are tough to use! give me a replaceable assembly any day.
One disagreement. I don't think they "want" a part to last as long as it can. I think the designers, engineers ect. poor billions into designing parts that fail right after the warranty/good will warranty or any liability the manufacturer would have. As soon as they don't have to pay for it, they want it costing you as much as possible WHILE still bring you back as a customer, it's a very delicate balancing act, and IMO why some people say "Chevy's are bad" or "Fords are bad" it's just the timing of the parts designed to break anyway are wrong on some vehicles, and manufacturers are always tweaking it. This is all my opinion nothing more.
Light bUlbs are designed to only last 2000hours. Cheap printers are designed to fail after x amount of papers is printed. It is like this with almost everything. You are not supposed to repair anything anymore. If something is broken you get a new product. In the 20th century mass production led to an economic crisis. The supply of goods was bigger than the consumer demand. So manufacturers turned to planned obsolescence
The one that really ticked me off was the O-rings in Vauxhall CDTi high pressure fuel pumps. They have a little nylon washer on each side of the O-ring, and if that washer splits, so does the O-ring, causing the pump to spray your engine compartment in diesel. As well as rotting out every rubber part around the engine, there is no service kit for the pump - you can only buy it as a complete unit from Vauxhall for something like £300 (yes, you can get them cheap nowadays, but this was not too long after launch). Total cost of the repair for me? £4 for a set of O-rings, of which I needed one, and a home-made nylon washer... Really, really annoys me, things like that...
I had a 2006 Uplander with the AWD and the dealer replaced the rear diff four times and as they told me it was a non-serviceable component. Thank heaven I had an extended warranty as it was over $1500 cost each time.
your thoughts about how the future of cars is going to be is not impossible. it's kind of scary, and really sad, but i think you're right. big V8s, Glasspacks, and carburetors have almost disappeared, and even some of the 4 cylinder cars with "fart cans" (actually a fatter version of a glasspack) are starting to fizzle out because of how thin the metal they were built with was...
Spot On ! Every mechanical part on a car or truck, the manufacturer knows, within 10k miles, exactly how long that component will last. We have become component re-placers. Old days, we rebuilt components, even more simple things as a starter. Today, they teach new mechanics, how to replace components and half of those mechanics, don't even know what that competent actually does.
Great Video Eric, I wonder when the car manufactures will go to a "waterless" coolant system, I have seen Evans coolant, where you never have to change your coolant I think its unit cost issues for that.
I have a 2009 NAG1 trans behind a 5.7 hemi with only 8,000 miles. Some performance forums recommend installing Mercedes Benz AMG shift solenoids to firm up the shifts. In the past I had shift kits installed in a few old cars, and I prefer a hard shifting car. What do you think Eric?
Exactly the same model and colour as my fathers Vigor, except it's badged as a Honda, and the steering wheel is on the 'right' side over here in New Zealand.
My favorite BS term is "for the life of the vehicle." As in "It's designed to last for the life of the vehicle. Ha ha ha. Not my vehicles. Unless it's designed to last 300K plus.
Funny thing. A few days ago, I was wondering the exact same thing about why Honda transmissions from the mid 90s shifted very roughly compared to Toyotas and asked this very question on Quora. The guy who answered my question said the same thing as Eric--- that the clutch bands engage fast so that they last a long time on Hondas, but Eric further explained that when they switched to smoother transmissions in the late 90's, their reliability plummeted. It just increased my level of respect for early 90's Honda ten fold. They knew that Toyota was bringing these silky smooth transmissions to the market, but instead of going with the flow and just putting out slower shifting transmissions, they stuck with something that was reliable. (at least until they started going downhill in 2000s')
Two other relevant thoughts I would like to throw in about this: manufacturing capabilities and materials have evolved drastically over the last 20 years or so, which influences the 'design to manufacture' constraints (and possibilities). So something that appears to be engineered to be cheap, could actually have been engineered to be lighter, simpler, efficiently produced, assembled and reused in other models. All costs that come downstream of production and warranty time period are simply passed to the customer. For manufacturers this is a win-win situation. What happens to 'common' mechanics and technicians? Well, as in many other service areas, in general they have to evolve, whether this happens through the generations or by getting additional training to keep up with the technology. Same thing with computers for example - what happened to COBOL programmers? what happened to mainframe gurus? for the most part they had to move on, unfortunately, or fortunately I'm not sure anymore.
Was one of the first in my area to rebuild a Ford Torqshift 6 found on 2011+ Superduty's. Found it had clutch failure, i think it was the coast clutch, ordered parts and took it apart, found the failed parts and the seal and pistons was UNSERVICEABLE. Even though every part was available, the piston was impossible to come out. Had the service engineer came out, and eventually had another trans sent.
Guy in my shop said "Engineers can't always do what they want" meaning the engineers have people telling them to redesign in order to cut manufacturing costs. As non-serviceable parts get to be more common its more frustrating for DIYers, but in the long run if you're going to keep your car its a matter of a financial investment to keep and maintain it (so you don't have to buy another, or make payments on a newer)
Reliability is the key issue. On Automatic Transmissions contaminants are the biggest reason for failures. Removing the dip stick removes a way for dirt and grit to find a way in. I fully expecy to see engines have filter / oil tank modules that you will change helping keep the engine interior pristine and thus extend the life.
im fixing up a old 51 chevy truck and it actually has grease fittings on the leaf spring bushings and shackles! also my 1990 which is my daily driver has the original ball joints and wheel bearings (maybe tie rods too hard to tell) all because they have grease fittings. after working on newer cars these past 8 years, yeah ill never own one unless i come into a ton of money and keep it til warranty is up..... but even then ill probably need to have a old vehicle to use while its getting 1 of the 38 recalls fixed that its bound to have
Mercedes c300 door handle breaks. It is integrated in the door panel. Requires a brand new door panel. It can be fixed for $20 bucks (including the price of the tools to remove the door panel). The dealer will never tell you about it though.
I get your point on saving money by eliminating some parts and specifically speaking to the statement of eliminating the transmission dipstick. If all they were doing was eliminating the dipstick, that would be fine. The issue is that they are exactly eliminating the DIY ability. Case - 2008 Ford Explorer closed system transmission. You cannot check, change or fill the transmission. In fact if you have a failure as i had with the radiator. It must go mack to Ford for a fill and to be connected to the "computer" or it will not work. It had to go. I intend to keep older vehicles for that reason. I like having the option of taking a vehicle to the dealer and respect the knowledge and experience there but I hate it when I am forced to the dealer by design. Maybe I am just old.
The last car I looked under the hood and saw a pretty familiar pattern in the hood to most late 90's cars was my 2004 Toyota Corolla. It really had nothing too funky it was newer but it had for example a normal throttle body the right place and configuration that looks pretty normal. I look under my 07 Honda civic it looks like a real pain in the ass to work on. Not as bad as some cars I've seen in even more recent years but I also haven't done any major work on my Honda yet but from what I can see it looks super compact and super tight and I wonder how in the hell would I get my hand in some places to reach in there to fix things? However my 04 corolla had a bigger hood and lots of room to work in there as good as a compact car could be for as far as hood room. What all do you think?
I think your conclusions are interesting and make sense. The first cars widely made, model T's were supposedly very durable. We haven't seen progression in durability.I've wondered about why transmissions are sealed. I think the your supposition that manufacturers want to say maintenance costs are low makes the most sense. Also if the only fix is a replacement of the whole component, then manufacturers can make money selling the components. Another reason is the weakest system determines the life of the vehicle. I think they want to make it just good enough that new vehicles will need to be purchased.
I have a 1987 Volvo 760. I have been flushing an automatic transmission every 30K miles. My goal is to achieve 225,000+ mile life. I don't like the concept of a non-serviceable transmission; if something small breaks, I can't fix it at a small cost.
Sad. Really sad. I am 57 years old and have been a mechanic/technician for over 35 years. I got more and more disenchanted with my job as cars became more and more complicated, with parts a car does not need. And now this lack of serviceability thing. It will get worse. We are headed toward totally disposable cars, and cars that are "connected" and can be tracked and controlled remotely. I became more and more frustrated with the way things were going that I bailed out of the business, and started my own business, specializing in vintage cars only. I am a total believer in repairing not replacing. Yes you may need to replace some parts, but not usually complete assemblies. Old cars can be rebuilt over and over again. And they are simple, a pleasure to work on, and a pleasure to drive for a true car enthusiast. Parts availability varies with the make and model. Some vintage cars, like a '65 Mustang, can practically be built completely from parts catalogs.Some vintage cars can be hard to get parts for, and I have had to improvise. Any good mechanic should know how to improvise. Most of today's "technicians" are taught to go by the book" Many of them don't have a really good understanding of what they are working on. Very few could rebuild and engine or transmission. Even fewer could build a car designed for racing. I have been a drag racer since before I got a drivers license. I have built several drag race cars from the ground up. And they worked as intended. I built them more for durability than absolute speed. Anyway, I am completely disgusted by what cars have become. I will stick with vintage cars for the rest of my life.
I can relate. Thanks for your input. I really appreciate it. Good luck with your vintage shop.
What I want from newer cars is only more safety and less fuel consumption. What I've seen in my very short career of hobbyist tinkering with cars is that everywhere is some plastic cover that is totally useless. ie. a plastic cosmetic engine logo cover on top of valve cover. Useless. Another huge thing is the automatic transmission like discussed in the video. As a consumer I have no possibility to fix it. This is not going to a good direction.
What I want in cars is more mechanical things and less electronics. Watch Eric's video comparison between mechanics and technicians. I am a mechanic. I worked as a technician for a long time, but finally just couldn't deal with it anymore. I'm kind of a purest when it comes to cars, and I just don't think computers and cars go together. As for hybrids, well, I'd just rather not go there.
vulcan1753
I don't think that electrical components should be closed away from cars because I think that precision is good for internal combustion engines and less fuel consumption can be obtained with them and also makes the car more secure. What I hate with electronics is that software side is sometimes too time consuming and there should be some kind of standards to be set with software and components. What I've noticed is that mechanical stuff is the exact same in almost all cars meaning ie. doing the valve timing or changing shocks or coilovers but the electrical side varies SO MUCH between vehicles that it is actually the main reason that takes so much time ie. is the MAF sensor really broken? is the wires that are cut? is the connector corroded or is just loose etc. and there you are going and diagnosing the whole circuit.
The main reason I gave up working on newer cars is because of the electronics. I don't have a problem with electronic ignition, because it doesn't have a computer. But I am a carb guy through and through. And I can't stand those check engine lights. I grew up working on '60s cars and love them.
"Non-serviceable component" just sounds like a challenge to me...
right on man
I Completely agree
my reasoning is, if it was put together, it can be taken apart and then put back together
+PhunkBustA I did that with my BMW keys (2002 325i). The battery eventually wore out and needed to be replaced. The key was injection molded, so I had to cut it open to get to the battery, but a replacement battery was only a couple of bucks and you need to look really closely under good light to see where I solvent-welded it back together.
What are you talking about? Sealed usually means welded or rivited closed it's a simple fix with a drill and a tap. Heck Erick The Car Guy has serviced sealed for life components such as the rear window motor on the van.
And this is why I drive a 1990 Camry. I can service anything on it in my driveway. It is THE reliable car. The biggest repair I've had to do on it was replacing a control arm, and that was just to get a smoother ride.
Those Japanese Camrys were bulletproof! Can't say the same about the 1992+ ones! Haha. But I can say that even those 92+ camrys were very easy to repair, and that when the engineers were designing the car, the engineers' primary goal was to not at least fuck the 2nd owner over. In my opinion this started all going downhill in the late 90s.
I have a much simpler dollars and cents theory of non-serviceable heavy components. Its about shifting labor costs from expensive markets to inexpensive markets. Let the $100/hr US technician labor swap the part with a book value of 1 hour. Then let the near-3rd world manufacturer/supplier rebuild the core for 7 hours at $1.29/day salary with no benefits, little safety, and no security. Or shift the labor cost of rebuilding the component in the US to the vehicle consumer who is forced to pay an astronomical price for the dealer-only non-servicable part for a newly manufactured unit. (see how they profit in both directions on that last one - save a ton on warranty service labor, and make top dollar selling limited supply parts).
There is another popular auto-repair channel on youtube that showed a "non-servicable" $1500 viscous coupler (Kia Sportage) being removed and easily repaired for around $65 in parts (It was literally as serviceable as anything else on the car...it simply required to be unbolted, taken off the vehicle, taken apart and replace a bearing and seal).
+Jordan Moore That's a very important financial point you make about non-servicable parts-global economy.
South Main Auto
You're spot on with the remote diagnostics. The aviation industry has been doing this for years. On a modern passenger jet, the engines are monitored and report a wealth of performance data back to the manufacturer on a continuous basis. They can actually diagnose many problems and have the parts delivered to the destination airport by the time that the aircraft lands. Aviation did it first because the costs are easy to justify for multi-million dollar jet engines on aircraft that cost thousands of dollars per hour when they isn't flying. Once a technology is developed it quickly moves to less cost sensitive applications.
"Warranty void if removed" * cracks knuckles*
Yea that just begs me to bust inside a component.
+MrTheHillfolk kinda like when they said " don't look at porn " 😂😂😂
hahaha just like when your parents told you, you would go blind if you played with it to much, just made you want to find out for sure! I know my eyesight is still 20/20
Using the auto transmission as an example, I would rather pay $100-$150 to have oil and filter changed four of five times over the life of the car instead of paying $2000 or more for a transmission.
Agreed!
Same with all fluids
I'm reminded of the BMW 328i that Motor Trend long-term tested a year or so ago. One morning, with no warning, the computers displayed a fault code for the power steering, and there was no power steering (electric rack). The entire steering rack had to be replaced.
Yep, I think we're going to see more of that. My hope is that it gets cheaper along the way.
computiNATEor To be fair, one day with no warning the power steering hose asploded on my 1960 dodge and I had to run around and find a shop to make me a new one.
Yes, but you replaced a hose. This required the replacement of the entire rack.
There's probably some slick trick fix that involves some fifty cent component, though.
Martin Espinoza Sure. My 2003 BMW has two such items: sealed headlight assemblies. There are two motors designed to drive an auto-leveling mechanism through two arms that are less than $10 per assembly. An entire new assembly costs upwards of $700, for a total of $1400. -_-
I hate modern cars.
What Eric said here is pretty much exactly my stance on it and has been for years. Thing is, I also believe modern vehicles purposefully make the lives of DIY'ers harder to force them back to the dealership and give them more money.
The future, to me, is a place where the average mechanic is no longer needed, and the manufacturer directly repairs vehicles at an extortionate price, because every vehicle will have a unique arsenal of tools to do any job.
There's an extremely thin line between customer satisfaction and profits on many companies priority list, and sometimes, they just put the wrong thing first on one too many occasions. I kinda feel this is whats happening now.
Also, screw having any complex onboard computers. Not only do i deem this a massive security risk (As software is almost always crackable) but I also favor mechanical linkages over electrical any day just simply from a reliability and fixability standpoint.
One of ETCG's points in another video was that average diy and average mechanic are worlds apart. Part of that same video was how he liked to work on Hondas because they didn't require an Armada of tool-trucks to be able to work on, UNLIKE other contemporary vehicles, which DO. A former dealership mechanic turned down working on a 2001 Honda transmission because he "didn't have the tools". As for "crackable" electronics, any reprogrammable ECU is technically that, and if something like a built-in GPS or Bluetooth link to your smartphone breaks, it's usually so expensive to replace that warranties word their contacts around them, even the "extended"ones you pay extra for at the dealership, that it's often cheaper to buy a discrete device to replace the functionality: and like a tool box, take it (or them, lol) with you when you sell.
I can imagine the manufacturing and dealership ceo's discussing this sort of profit loss from having other mechanics do serviceable work. The American economy has become a service economy and less of manufacturing. They may want to take the foreseeable profits of the mechanic/ technician industry while they can.
isaac vegas Rýán Túçk Thingamajigs One thing I haven't seen you guys talk about is how much safer cars are now. And how much smarter. Yea things are more expensive and Yeah, they become less serviceable to the avg person, but the avg person wont EVER do service on their car. Granted, people like us who enjoy working on our cars, get the short end of the stick on this but there are still ways to improve your car.
I have a '72 Dodge Polara and I feel the same way. No special equipment needed, I can (and have) repaired everything on that car so far. The only thing I haven't touched is the carburetor. No one has ever showed me, everyone just says to get a book on it, but what happens when I have a question? Its not like i'm sitting in class and can just raise my hand. Thats the only thing I might replace with a TBI or one of the other EFI systems you can just bolt on. One time I replaced a quadrajet whose secondaries weren't opening up with a remanufactured one. Put a vac gauge on it, tuned it, idled fine but backfired all to heck in gear. Wondering whats the best way I can learn about them.
"The future, to me, is a place where the average mechanic is no longer needed, and the manufacturer directly repairs vehicles at an extortionate price, because every vehicle will have a unique arsenal of tools to do any job."
that is funny becuse really old cars like 1920 came with a set of tools to work on them because there was no real stranded for that stuff.
It's kinda scary thinking about this. What's going to happen to us "common mechanics"? Another reason why all cars I buy are made in the early 90's... I can work on them.
We'll become parts changers. We aren't that far off as it is now.
ETCG1 Sound chasers, parts replacers...
Joseph Inman You're like me, man. I have money for a new car, but I only buy cars from the late 70s to the early 90s. New cars just aren't worth the money. The cars I like from the 70s and 80s are getting harder and harder to find though.
when i first started, as a 16 year old apprentice, one of my jobs was to remove the old, worn linings on brake shoes and fit new linings. The actual shoe itself was for the life of the car and the linings were the consumable...how things have changed. But, yes, the engineers even know exactly how many revolutions that engine will turn
Now, the whole car is a consumable, or more so than a car was 40 years ago ( my dad still has the car i remember going to buy from the dealership, it was a day out for the whole family and we spent the rest of the day just driving. And he may be 80 years old now, and the car hasn't moved for the last 12 years but will he let me BUY it from him and put it back on the road? will he hell!! crotchety old bastard he is )
😄😄😄😄😄😄
I have been told one of the reasons for sealed transmissions is to prevent customers or independent shops from dumping incorrect fluid or un-approved additives into the unit. I have personally known people that dump Lucas into brand new transmissions leading to a warranty replacement.
Reminds me of the time I went to an auto electrician, and seeing a big pile of old alternators. I think most of them were old and serviceable, yet still replaced by non serviceable ones, simply because it's cheaper and easier.
you are perfectly right Eric. I've read articles and talked to people, (even to some friend engineer that works in auto manufacturer industry in Germany) about big manufacturers investing several times more money in controled wearing out of materials used. Plus that they do more and more changeable parts, clutches for example. 15 y's ago we had a massive flywheel, and all we had to change was a press plate, disk, and a bearing (for a VW Golf that was between 250-300$). And then manufacturer came with the great ideea that customer should change flywheel to meanwhile the repair so they came up with the double mass flywheel with shock absorbers, and they made them so they DO fail within milage of other moving clutch componets. And sometimes even faster. I've changed clutches on some Hyundai Santa Fe's (bout 3 by now), just because the f-wheels were bad and noisy while disk, plate and bearing were like almost new condition. Not to mention that the flywheels price for that Golf mentioned earlier exceeds 600$. In earlier models i've succesfully tried to weld together the 2 part flywheel, and trust me (shock absorber or not), you can't feel shit while shifting, and the car is driving for 4 y over now. Engineers worked that out, cause on later models they made flywheels so that there is absolutely NO position on them to weld together.
Sorry i just talked about clutches, they do that with every part, they have the resources to invest in things like this, make them fail at a certain time, or milage. I feel like i am at war with manufacturers with every part i try to fix, or make it better and more durable than they did, cause I KNOW THEY WANT IT TO FAIL. They make money out of this so they can invest more in controled wearing. But when it comes to environment...they just throw in some cheap software to the vehicle to fool emission testing, so they sell more cars.....more cars= more parts......get me?
That is a great concept. That last bit about cars getting IP addresses and sending automatic emails to dealerships. Crazy. Soon enough we will only be servicing Tesla batteries and sensors and no combustion engines but probably not for a while
The sad thing is that these issues have done an effective job at closing the market to all but those working at the dealership. Outwardly it is illegal to force competitors out, but when they design the system to require specialized repair software and training, most generic competitors bow out because of the practicality. We all know what that means. My brother in law recently was told that his hybrid Ford needs a new CVT. $15,000 quote to replace a transmission, barely out of warranty.
I'll bet the dealership told him that they'd make a deal with him so that to trade it in and make a down payment on a new Ford would be much cheaper, eh?
Boom, they just sold a new vehicle.
Imagine how often that happens in dealerships across the country.
Absolutely. And since they can write off the expense of the repair, the fix is done wholesale and the car is sold back into the market, retail. No wonder dealers' kids live in the biggest house on the block. The only pushback we as consumers can offer is to pay attention to resale values. I'd like to see more CVT repairs here on youtube, but dealers almost never post videos here. And, extended warranties make it difficult for independent technicians to gain experience.
Well, there's another reason transmissions are sealed. Diy "mechanics" are likely to buy DW-1 and try it in their CVT just because there wasn't anybody at Walmart that knew anything except how to read "For Honda and imports" on the oil bottle.
Vance Cole
Interesting and insightful. I never thought of that. I believe my neighbor fell for that. She traded her perfectly fine Impala in for a new Sonic. It simply needed brakes and tires. Some people can't seem to stomach paying a thousand dollars for a one time repair. Yet, they have no problem signing a loan that becomes a financial anchor for 5 years. It is all about what they can afford each month. Also, a car is much easier to finance than an auto repair. The dealers make out like bandits off the poor financial condition of their customers.
That’s where you get a second opinion
I have seen this my own life, I remember when if you saw a water pump with a leaking seal or worn bushing or bearing you could get a rebuild kit with new seals bearing and in some cases impeller and rebuild the pump. Use a Puller to pull off the impeller, press out the shaft. Knock out the old seals and bearing or bushing, reverse the order to install the new parts. I haven't seen a car with a water pump you could rebuild since the mid Sixties.
Nice video, Eric. I tend to agree that modular components are the future. The sad part of that is that mechanics will become a thing of the past and those who do choose to go into auto repair will be little more than fitters and will not have any diagnostic skill whatsoever. As a DIY'er and a car guru that really saddens me. The ability to own and to service your own car is in my opinion one the greatest automotive traditions. Making them to where they cannot be serviced will take cars from the art form that they are and make them nothing more than transportation.
Well said. Excellent points.
As someone with experience on the OEM side of things, I'd say you're partially right. But you have to consider the broader scope of the cost of making a particular component serviceable. As the complexity and electrification of all systems increases, so does the complexity of the repair. That drives the need for more expensive and complex special tools, and more technician training (which costs the shop, the tech, and the company). The supplier network must be put in place to support parts into the future, and service information has to be developed for the shop manual. For some parts then, the cumulative costs of the support network outweigh the cost of replacement.
I stumbled on this video and realized how much I miss the old ETCG1 intro! That's a classic dude. You should bring it back once in a while. Still enjoy your videos. Thanks for doing what you do.
I used to have a 95 acura legend and I always wondered why it shifted so hard, I thought it was a problem then just learned it's just how those old Hondas are. I loved that car, never had one problem with it
a few of our customers have Volvo tractors with Volvo drive trains and they don't make the iDrive transmissions serviceable. you have to replace the entire transmission. I can somewhat see that on a car or light truck, but that's absurd being on a heavy truck, that's why i love Allisons, easy to work on and great service manuals.
this is my favourite ETCG1 video. I live in a pretty modular lifestyle, and I see how effective and efficient it is, and I like the idea of making cars more efficient, affordable, and cheaper. But there are scary things associated with where that's going - cars that won't be worked on by the human hand. I think working on cars is crucial to the appreciation of what cars do and why they respond to inputs and conditions. I think that's why everyone should have some basic understanding the same way we should know how to cook food - because it's a vital element in our life. The greatest lesson I've learned from you, Eric as well as just being under cars - is that you can see the evolution of a car's technology the same way you would watch the progression of ingenuity itself or even biologically - things fit into place to be as efficient and effective as they can in order to make a collection of moving parts get us from a to b.
I hope I don't end up handcuffed to an apple computer of a car - a lightbulb like everybody else's. As change becomes inevitable, I want my car to have character, quirks, and at least some ability for me to customize it and care for it. Other than that, I'm a huge fan of the latest tech making our lives better.
One thing I've been very interested in is converting a hydrocarbon car into an electric one. Might Car Mods did a set of episodes and they found a following of cool, techy, but also nerdy dudes that have a passion for these conversions and I think it's cool. I think it'd be even cooler if they could make them energy self sufficient, with solar or whatever. But maybe that's far far into the future.
the other side of non serviceable parts is that they cant be as easily modified,or messed with. by customers. like putting the wrong type trans fluid in and ruining a perfectly good trans. or using substandard grease in balljoints or over filling and causing seals to blow out. I've seen strange thing done by well intentioned owners who didn't know what they were doing.
hey eric, the one major point I think you missed in the manufacturing standpoint is leasing. the trend of leasing verses buying that came the market in my opinion is the driving force behind non-serviceable components. after a 3 year lease most vehicles have the highest turn over value. dealers buy these cars lease them out for 3 years then dump them at the auction. they want that customer back to lease another one. minimizing the down time of that vehicle is crucial so simplifying the repair process is key. on top of the fact that the contracted vendor of the failed part is being held liable. another thought about it is, when an airbag light came on, say for a driver airbag module, you were not allowed to pin test any connectors. basically you put an airbag in. that didn't fix it you replaced the control unit. that didn't fix it you put a harness in and that completes the entire system. maybe manufactures used the data of fixed right first time and overall experience of the repair from the customer standpoint and are trying to incorporate that into other systems? what do you think?
Frost White 5 speed Vigor. was my first car. I loved it, miss it.
I totally agree. I saw it happen in the manufacturing plant i worked at....gone were the days of in house building of the machines that make the parts...Companies started making platforms that could have any number of things attached to do what ever you wanted to do in the plant. Most of the machines evolved to the point you no longer had to troubleshoot (diagnose) problems. The machine would tell you what was wrong and one of the machines i worked on had a network connection so you plug your laptop into it and it would show you where the fault was, how to remove it/adjust it.
Just found this alternate channel that you have Eric. I like that you discuss "everything else" automotive besides repair. Great channel. I'm enjoying all the vids. Thanks for sharing!
Yep. It think you're spot on Eric. I'm not looking forward to the days when it's hard to find a used car that I'm actually able to service myself. But, that's about 40yrs out, I hope.
great discussion as usual. there are a lot of pros and cons to non serviceable components. I guess a big con is cost, but a big pro for some stuff is safety and ease of replacement. a couple of example of good non serviceable parts are quick struts and hub/bearing assemblies. no messing with spring compressors that suck and are dangerous, and not using a press that sucks and is dangerous to change bearings. of course they cost a bit more, but I support these, I don't support the no dipstick, sealed trans, etc.
I agree. Electronics and appliances are like this and have been for some time now, with IC chips, surfaced mounted components and smartboards. When they break you either throw them away or change out the whole part.
Great video. I agree. I saw this when working at Advance. Older cars were easier to work on. But on the newer cars, things like
batteries and light bulbs were increasingly impossible. Checking and adding fluids wasnt always straightforward. I have no desire to own many of the new cars out today.
Speaking of going toward modular, in the near future we'll just swap the whole car for another when a component breaks. The cars will be so electronic and cheap that we'll just treat them like shopping carts.
Yep, that was kinda my point.
ETCG1
I will still be driving my 2003 Honda Accord V6 - it might have a million miles on it but it will still be running - she barely has 105k on it - just over actually - dam the timing belt/water pump repair went up from my 97 Accord from 600 to a Grand - Eeek!
Sachi WI Watch out for those Honda V6 transmission issues though!! D8
Vance Cole
that recall had been taken care of prior to purchase - it's been fine
Sachi WI Aha, good ^^
Enjoy dat Honda, dude/ma'am!
Very interesting subject Eric, I believe you are right about the future of servicing vehicles. I hope that these changes in the automotive business don't screw us as the customer! Take care and thanks again for another great video.
Actually I think it will make things cheaper than ever. There is an upside to this I believe.
Thanks Eric for another awesome video. I am a fan from half way around the world!
Having owned an early 90s Honda I am in awe of how well designed, engineered and manufactured they were. Those cars must have cost Honda a lot of money to make.
You raise a good point about modular design, like it or hate it, that's the way of the future.
Call me old fashioned, but I'm grateful my (current) car doesn't have hackable IP based technology. I mean what could possibly go wrong?
I recently retired as an industrial auto machine mechanic, much of this equipment was very specialized, held quite a bit of liability and you almost had to be certified in order to work on them, that meant many trips to manufacturers for in plant school for almost every different kind of machine worked on. We were true repair mechanics in every shape of the word. By the time I got out the new guys were really no longer repair mechanics but glorified parts changers. You would connect a controller pad to the processor, it would tell what was wrong, you would remove what ever module contained the bad parts, pop a new module in and then the controller would reprogram everything to the original settings, with only minor tinkering with parameters. Modules were sent back, rebuilt in factory or sub-contractor and put back on the parts out shelf, for a much higher factory profit, they were selling you all the parts in the module, and for those "special" customers (almost anyone who asked) usually with a 20 to 30% discount (still a 70% profit on many parts), most of which could be re-used when rebuilt.
I love how my 98 honda accord bangs into gear. it's just a lot more satisfying that a smooth gear change. the gear changes plus the sound of the 3 liter v6 makes it so enjoyable to drive, but not as good as if it was a manual.
.000000000000000000001% of consumers buy their cars filtering their decision through serviceability. Is it any surprise at all that manufacturers have responded to this apathy?
If it meant 99.9999999999999999999999% durability instead i wouldn't mind at all :)
Interesting ideas about the future. Some brands have really embraced these things. I work for Volvo. And as far as the modular platform goes; Volvo is launching a whole new line of cars starting last year (this MY). The new platform is called the SPA platform. Or scaleable product architecture. So basically all of the cars will be a modular design, they just simply make a few tweaks here and there and change the size. As far as diagnostics go, for years Volvo has used bluetooth to connect cars to computers, albeit through a little box we plug in to the car. With the new plarform, however, the cars all do have an IP address and once the system is up and running, we will be able to connect with the car via Wi Fi as soon as it's within range. The future will be very interesting.
+Joe Rosebush Interesting indeed. Thanks for the info.
AC clutch. you can get the magnet, but not the front plate,springs, and rivets. $20 parts kit would save you from spending $600 on a complete compressor.
Never had considered this angle, well made point. Thanks Eric.
The whole thing with the vehicle emailing you when there is a problem and telling the dealership is actually out there, like when you need an oil change you'll get and email saying when would you like to schedule an appointment with the dealership, pretty crazy stuff
good discussion. just to add the car will email you and the dealer, in case of an emergency lock the doors reroute itself straight to the dealer for the repair with or without your consent.
planned obsolescence
I didn't read down the comments but I stated that also quote by Scotty Kilmer
This trend can be seen in other industries as well. for example, lets consider lawn mowers. If you buy a cheaper lawn mower, the manufacturer saves by making a non-adjustable carb. I read alot of these comments, and alot of people seem to think its a big scheme to suck your money away and close out other markets and kill the aftermarket and whatnot. But really, it all comes down to money. I can say this as I've worked as a design engineer in the auto industry. make the part cheaper to make, make the car cheaper to sell, increase volume. and yeah, saving 10c on a part which goes on maybe 2 million cars a year is 200k/year savings. thats easily 2 salaries. Theres alot of politics involved, but you have to consider the average consumers desires. trust me the companies aren't out to get you. we just don't represent the average.
yep! 100%, I agree with you.
9: 30 in other words we are talking about planned obsolescence. I hate planned obsolescence because it's a waste of money, the parts in question end up in in a landfill, thereby increasing our carbon footprint. If we can land spacecrafts on mars without a hitch and make them last far more than they were intended, we can do the same with cars. But the car makers would have none this. The bottom line for them is to maximize profits. What matters worse is the insatiable materialistic and never ending thirst from the consumer that wants something new every year and the car makers churn them out with little regard for safety and ways to make them easily reparable. The problem with cars are not cars, it's our lust for them akin to a fetish which makes our relationship with cars a dysfunctional one. Rest assured if we really cared for our environment, if we did not see our cars as extensions of ourselves but merely as a device that gets us from point A to point B, this world would be a better place. There is a big difference between what we want and what we need and what we need is to make planned obsolescences obsolescent.
If it connects to the dealership it'll be like the insurance modules that detect "hard braking" and "hard acceleration", they'll tell you you've voided your warranty by driving your car too harshly or something therefore making warranties very convoluted.
The new Accord is VERY serviceable Eric. The engineers at Honda really thought of their service technicians when designing all of the normal service points in the car. I just wish manufacturers would go back to greaseable suspension components!
I've been working on Hondas for more than 15 years. I know for a fact they're not as serviceable as they used to be. That said, we'll see what the future holds.
ETCG1 I know you've been working on Hondas for 15 years, but hear me out. Just as an example Eric, a lot of the items on the 05 Civic I had are much easier to get at on this new Accord. Oil filter is right next to the oil pan, vs on the back end of the block next to the firewall, an auto tensioner on the serpentine belt vs. 2 belts and manual adjusters that were knuckle scrapers, pcv valve is on the valve cover vs. hidden under the intake manifold next to the firewall, no timing belt, no power steering pump, water pump is out in the open and driven by the serpentine belt, clips instead of bolts holding the air filter box down, 1 cabin filter vs 2. Those are just a few of the easier serviceable items I noticed, plus there's a shit ton of room under the hood to get to these things.
A lot of manufacturers will have just a few platforms, say a RWD platform, and then a FWD or AWD platform. They can usually be stretched or widened slightly, but are otherwise similar enough to be made on one manufacturing line.
yup. I see wheel bearings where the replacement is done by replacing the entire hub. Convenient, but five times more expensive.
Another example are brake calipers, although it's the reman industry rather than the engineering. You can't buy slide pins or brackets anymore, but you have to buy entire calipers.
The other side of it, is that when you have a stateside mechanic rebuild your brake caliper for you, you're paying $80/hr labor rates. If you have him "remove old/bolt in re built unit," some dude in Bangledesh or Juarez does the rebuild for...$4/hr.
It's certainly more cost-effective to exploit the cheap labor...the question is, is the quality of work comparable?
Subaru has been using a similar "modular" body concept since the 90s. While the chassis IS a unibody, the subframes, suspension parts etc interchange with a few minor changes. This platform has evolved a couple times, mainly in the multi-link rear suspension. the front strut assemblys from a 1990 legacy bolt directly onto a 2014 impreza. I think it's impressive!
I agree, look at front wheel bearings, you used to have inners, outters, races and seals, now you have a hub bearing that gets replaced as a unit. As for a common chassis, Ford did that years ago with the "fox" body, it was the platform for the Mustang, Fairmont and Futura, as you mentioned the parts can be interchanged. So if you want a fast ratio steering rack from a Mustang in your Fairmont it simply bolts in. My 09 Taco doesn't have a transmission dipstick, so any service will not be done in my driveway. I also think the manufacturers have built this sort of thing into the newer vehicles so you can't work on it at home. Nothing like putting a gun to someones head to make them bring the vehicle back to the dealer for service.
Eric, they are engineering in obsolescence. A sealed trans will have fluid that is there for the life of the box but it will break down eventaully, when it does the trans will develop faults and require repair. Modular trans components are not available so a complete box required usually making it not a cost effective repair and the vehicle is now scrap.
As a 2nd year engineering student, I can tell you the first thing I was taught this year is that cost is the most important factor in deciding which material you're going to use to build a part. It's kind of sad, because it seems that life has come to a point where cost is more important than quality and only the big bosses' pockets get filled and we are stuck with shitty cars.
you should take a business class too. No one wants to pay 70,000 for a car. If you want to get into how much machining costs and the materials, it adds up really quickly.
As a consumer cost is a significant reason for purchasing one item over another. As some one who was going in to engineering don't you fell as if they are teaching you to work inside of a box and your being trained to be somebody lackey so to speak? At least for the first half of your career.
There is the mkb-platform for VW, Audi, Seat and Skoda, it's in production since 2003. Volvo S40, Mazda 3 and Ford Focus is made on the same platform. Ford Mondeo and Mazda 6 also same platform.
Well, how you drive the car has a very great effect on how long the component last. I know a guy who has blown the head gasket in every vehicle he has owned. I have gotten 60000 km on the original brake pads on the last car I owned driving only in the city. On the front pads I had 80% left on the outside pads and the insides were gone. the rear pads had 50% left. I follow the speed limit. when the light turns red I take my foot off the gas pedal or kick off the cruise. Why charge 60km/h to slam on the brakes at a red light? When I do this often I pass the cars stopped at the red light who just zoomed by me at 70km/h. It also has a great effect on your fuel economy. When I first started driving I followed the speed limit. When I drove my father's 1983 Pontiac Parisienne it got 20mpg. He used to drive 70km/h and got 10mpg out of the same car. I used to have a co-worker who complained about the gas mileage of his car. I used to see drive 80km/h in town, getting 150-200 km per tank in the city. I told him what happened with the Parisienne he was skeptical but a week later he said he thought I might be on to something.
thanks for the benefits of your experience- very insightful!
You are spot on and this is exactly what Chrysler did in the 1980's with the K platform. The K car was obviously the Aries K and the Reliant K, but it was also the platform for the first Dodge Caravan minivan, Dodge Dynasty, and even the successor to the nameplate, the Dodge Spirit. Many, many vehicles were built on the K platform. Take the same platform that is proven and then extend it to make a different vehicle. Same underpinnings, same interior components, same engine and transmission, etc. It just makes sense from a business perspective and that's what we see automakers doing these days, just like Chrysler did in the 1980's.
Thinking the same thing. The K platform is pretty much still the same item under current mini-vans.
On the sealed transmission. I don't see an issue really. If anything it will keep the oil chains from dumping in whatever fluid they have on hand and screwing up the trans.From a shops point of view it is also a much faster turn around to pull a trans, stuff a new/rebuilt one in and ship the failed unit out for overhaul. No different really than a crate engine.
Hi Eric, just started watching some videos and this title struck me. as I started to watch and you got into the segment about a GM in modular vehicles I remember back to Alan Alda have a special on PBS about driver cars this was a long time ago probably in about 15 years ago and they talked about that where the suspension in the situation of the name was all one and you just change the body design if you can refer back to it it's a really great episode on a lot of detail in where we were in where we are today
You are right on track with your analysis of what manufactures are doing for the future. At GM one platform fits many models. When GM made the Chevy engine their base engine in the Olds, Pontiac, and Buick that was the beginning of the thought process to maximize production and cut cost. GM used the KISS theory to build their products. Slush boxes are not for every mechanic's dream compared to engine repair. Now the automatics are at 6,7, and 8 speeds the difficulty in repair has increased. And if you are not a mechanic who repairs these boxes on a daily basis it could tax your patience. So modular units will become FRUs (field replaceable units).
I think part of the modular design has to do with the flat rate system. Its hard for manufactures to pay for repairs where no parts were purchased but something was just taken apart and cleaned or tweaked. With repairable components the manufacturer is more open to bogus warranty claims and substandard repairs. When I was an apprentice the old mechanic I worked with discussed every job in the shop with me and we very rarely bought a starter, alternator, carburetor, transmission, engine etc. We fixed the stuff inexpensively and professionally. Nowadays I don't see to many mechanics that even know how to fix components and if they do they still don't have time to teach an apprentice because they are just trying to make a living on flat rate. Hey Eric how about getting an apprentice?
I hope the industry is not going this way, my neighbor an old guy complained for 45 minutes to me about his transmission that was not serviceable. He was having a problem with the 6 month old car. He lived over a hundred miles from the nearest dealership and did not have faith the car would make it tot he dealer to get the car fixed so he would have to chance breaking down on the road. If the industry does go this way I think there will be a market for people who build aftermarket transmissions with dip sticks. Just like there is still a market for people who like stick shift transmissions.
Well sounds like a goddamn nightmare to me. The end users having to pony up the cash for those assemblies. $500 brake assembly, no thank you lol.
Actually a feature; not a problem.
It would be nice if wheel bearings had grease fittings.
+phillip lancaster You know how much a grease fitting cost......lol
+William Shoemaker III I'm sorry i don't know what you mean.
Sorry Phillip. It's a joke. there not putting grease fittiings on stuff because of cost. This way they sell you a part. don't want you greasing parts and making them last longer.
+William Shoemaker III oh lol I gotcha, that's what i thought you meant, and exactly it's just a way for vehicle companies to make more money.
+phillip lancaster i honestly dont think its necessary. id rather all wheel bearings be a hub assembly, rather than having to press them out. i just changed a rear wheel bearing on my wife's altima. all i had to do was remove the brake hardware, 4 bolts and the hub assembly comes out. put the new assembly in, done. 220k on the original bearing assembly is a pretty damn good service life IMO. need to do the other side as well but its not nearly as bad as the other was. the part was 25 bucks, and the half hour i spent changing it was a lot easier than taking it to a shop and paying a couple hundred to have it replaced, or taking the assembly to have it pressed out (which if you know someone is nothing, but for others probably the same price as the part i changed). sure you can use a manual press, but without an impact those are tough to use! give me a replaceable assembly any day.
One disagreement. I don't think they "want" a part to last as long as it can. I think the designers, engineers ect. poor billions into designing parts that fail right after the warranty/good will warranty or any liability the manufacturer would have. As soon as they don't have to pay for it, they want it costing you as much as possible WHILE still bring you back as a customer, it's a very delicate balancing act, and IMO why some people say "Chevy's are bad" or "Fords are bad" it's just the timing of the parts designed to break anyway are wrong on some vehicles, and manufacturers are always tweaking it. This is all my opinion nothing more.
James Karl
Couldn t agree more , James .........
Light bUlbs are designed to only last 2000hours.
Cheap printers are designed to fail after x amount of papers is printed.
It is like this with almost everything.
You are not supposed to repair anything anymore. If something is broken you get a new product.
In the 20th century mass production led to an economic crisis.
The supply of goods was bigger than the consumer demand.
So manufacturers turned to planned obsolescence
The one that really ticked me off was the O-rings in Vauxhall CDTi high pressure fuel pumps. They have a little nylon washer on each side of the O-ring, and if that washer splits, so does the O-ring, causing the pump to spray your engine compartment in diesel. As well as rotting out every rubber part around the engine, there is no service kit for the pump - you can only buy it as a complete unit from Vauxhall for something like £300 (yes, you can get them cheap nowadays, but this was not too long after launch). Total cost of the repair for me? £4 for a set of O-rings, of which I needed one, and a home-made nylon washer... Really, really annoys me, things like that...
go to hydraulics for o rings and back-up rings
I had a 2006 Uplander with the AWD and the dealer replaced the rear diff four times and as they told me it was a non-serviceable component. Thank heaven I had an extended warranty as it was over $1500 cost each time.
your thoughts about how the future of cars is going to be is not impossible. it's kind of scary, and really sad, but i think you're right. big V8s, Glasspacks, and carburetors have almost disappeared, and even some of the 4 cylinder cars with "fart cans" (actually a fatter version of a glasspack) are starting to fizzle out because of how thin the metal they were built with was...
Spot On ! Every mechanical part on a car or truck, the manufacturer knows, within 10k miles, exactly how long that component will last. We have become component re-placers. Old days, we rebuilt components, even more simple things as a starter. Today, they teach new mechanics, how to replace components and half of those mechanics, don't even know what that competent actually does.
Great Video Eric, I wonder when the car manufactures will go to a "waterless" coolant system, I have seen Evans coolant, where you never have to change your coolant I think its unit cost issues for that.
You predicted the future eric!! About the Bluetooth and internet in cars. I saw a jeep that could be hacked into and driven differently.
I have a 2009 NAG1 trans behind a 5.7 hemi with only 8,000 miles. Some performance forums recommend installing Mercedes Benz AMG shift solenoids to firm up the shifts. In the past I had shift kits installed in a few old cars, and I prefer a hard shifting car. What do you think Eric?
Eric the under dashboard talked sounded very cool and futuristic.
Exactly the same model and colour as my fathers Vigor, except it's badged as a Honda, and the steering wheel is on the 'right' side over here in New Zealand.
Eric! Please Please Please consider doing a podcast! Would love to take your talks on my long drives up and down the east coast!
My favorite BS term is "for the life of the vehicle." As in "It's designed to last for the life of the vehicle. Ha ha ha. Not my vehicles. Unless it's designed to last 300K plus.
Life of the vehicle is life of warrantee.
Funny thing. A few days ago, I was wondering the exact same thing about why Honda transmissions from the mid 90s shifted very roughly compared to Toyotas and asked this very question on Quora. The guy who answered my question said the same thing as Eric--- that the clutch bands engage fast so that they last a long time on Hondas, but Eric further explained that when they switched to smoother transmissions in the late 90's, their reliability plummeted.
It just increased my level of respect for early 90's Honda ten fold. They knew that Toyota was bringing these silky smooth transmissions to the market, but instead of going with the flow and just putting out slower shifting transmissions, they stuck with something that was reliable. (at least until they started going downhill in 2000s')
Two other relevant thoughts I would like to throw in about this: manufacturing capabilities and materials have evolved drastically over the last 20 years or so, which influences the 'design to manufacture' constraints (and possibilities). So something that appears to be engineered to be cheap, could actually have been engineered to be lighter, simpler, efficiently produced, assembled and reused in other models. All costs that come downstream of production and warranty time period are simply passed to the customer. For manufacturers this is a win-win situation.
What happens to 'common' mechanics and technicians? Well, as in many other service areas, in general they have to evolve, whether this happens through the generations or by getting additional training to keep up with the technology. Same thing with computers for example - what happened to COBOL programmers? what happened to mainframe gurus? for the most part they had to move on, unfortunately, or fortunately I'm not sure anymore.
This is a very interesting topic. Hopefully, this makes electronic malfunctions easier to diagnose and repair.
I'd like to see a follow up video of this.
Was one of the first in my area to rebuild a Ford Torqshift 6 found on 2011+ Superduty's. Found it had clutch failure, i think it was the coast clutch, ordered parts and took it apart, found the failed parts and the seal and pistons was UNSERVICEABLE. Even though every part was available, the piston was impossible to come out. Had the service engineer came out, and eventually had another trans sent.
Guy in my shop said "Engineers can't always do what they want" meaning the engineers have people telling them to redesign in order to cut manufacturing costs. As non-serviceable parts get to be more common its more frustrating for DIYers, but in the long run if you're going to keep your car its a matter of a financial investment to keep and maintain it (so you don't have to buy another, or make payments on a newer)
Reliability is the key issue. On Automatic Transmissions contaminants are the biggest reason for failures. Removing the dip stick removes a way for dirt and grit to find a way in. I fully expecy to see engines have filter / oil tank modules that you will change helping keep the engine interior pristine and thus extend the life.
im fixing up a old 51 chevy truck and it actually has grease fittings on the leaf spring bushings and shackles! also my 1990 which is my daily driver has the original ball joints and wheel bearings (maybe tie rods too hard to tell) all because they have grease fittings. after working on newer cars these past 8 years, yeah ill never own one unless i come into a ton of money and keep it til warranty is up..... but even then ill probably need to have a old vehicle to use while its getting 1 of the 38 recalls fixed that its bound to have
Mercedes c300 door handle breaks. It is integrated in the door panel. Requires a brand new door panel. It can be fixed for $20 bucks (including the price of the tools to remove the door panel). The dealer will never tell you about it though.
I get your point on saving money by eliminating some parts and specifically speaking to the statement of eliminating the transmission dipstick. If all they were doing was eliminating the dipstick, that would be fine. The issue is that they are exactly eliminating the DIY ability. Case - 2008 Ford Explorer closed system transmission. You cannot check, change or fill the transmission. In fact if you have a failure as i had with the radiator. It must go mack to Ford for a fill and to be connected to the "computer" or it will not work. It had to go. I intend to keep older vehicles for that reason. I like having the option of taking a vehicle to the dealer and respect the knowledge and experience there but I hate it when I am forced to the dealer by design. Maybe I am just old.
The last car I looked under the hood and saw a pretty familiar pattern in the hood to most late 90's cars was my 2004 Toyota Corolla. It really had nothing too funky it was newer but it had for example a normal throttle body the right place and configuration that looks pretty normal. I look under my 07 Honda civic it looks like a real pain in the ass to work on. Not as bad as some cars I've seen in even more recent years but I also haven't done any major work on my Honda yet but from what I can see it looks super compact and super tight and I wonder how in the hell would I get my hand in some places to reach in there to fix things? However my 04 corolla had a bigger hood and lots of room to work in there as good as a compact car could be for as far as hood room. What all do you think?
I gotta say...u brought up some VERY valid points that I have never thought of. Great video!!! Stay dirty and safe man
This intro reminds me of one of those outdated videos we watched in school. Eric the troll ETT1 I like it.
it will be interesting to see where the hacker aspect goes in the future.
Very insightful, you made me think about the future possibilities.Good video!
I own a 79 RX-7.. it's easier to work on than my 2010 Nissan sentra. That speaks volumesss
I freaked out when I found out my Toyota had no transmission dip stick and it was "sealed"... we will see how long it lasts.
That Acura sounds like a Ford Escort. Man you feel those shifts!
Mark just mentioned train horns last night at dinner. Great choice floogle. Candycane...
I think your conclusions are interesting and make sense. The first cars widely made, model T's were supposedly very durable. We haven't seen progression in durability.I've wondered about why transmissions are sealed. I think the your supposition that manufacturers want to say maintenance costs are low makes the most sense. Also if the only fix is a replacement of the whole component, then manufacturers can make money selling the components. Another reason is the weakest system determines the life of the vehicle. I think they want to make it just good enough that new vehicles will need to be purchased.
I have a 1987 Volvo 760. I have been flushing an automatic transmission every 30K miles. My goal is to achieve 225,000+ mile life. I don't like the concept of a non-serviceable transmission; if something small breaks, I can't fix it at a small cost.
I think that is insightful.
I hope I never have to drive a vehicle that emails the dealer during my life time.