What's your take on E3Ds new High Flow nozzle? Too expensive or exactly what you've been waiting for? Oh, and check out our CNC Kitchen products at cnckitchen.store/ or at our resellers www.cnckitchen.com/reseller
@@EricYanush This! Lets compare these two cars but on the competitors car we are going to put an artificial restriction in the exhaust system! WOW look how fast the new car is!
Yeah this continues to demonstrate why I have no plans to ever "upgrade" to Revo. I can get a hardened steel CHT nozzle today, and I still don't see the benefit of rapid nozzle changes as someone who is MAYBE using his printer 25% of the time, so just having a wear resistant 0.4mm nozzle is really all I need. Especially since so much of what I make is structural parts, where printing fast can be a really bad thing for part strength, I'll happily trade the 50% longer print times for just knowing that my printer will happily handle everything from PLA to carbon filled PC with zero issues...
It would be nice in my opinion, but between the Closed Source Nature, and like you said how an abrasive resistant 0.4mm (or whatever your “standard nozzle size” is) nozzle will work 75% of the time, I don’t see much of a need there.
that's also what I'm interested in, though I've heard larger nozzles actually make stronger parts? like what if you printed 0.8 on PAHT-CF or GF-PC? that's what i want to know 😭
I still don't understand the sales pitch for this system. Nozzle changes are already easy and quick. Nozzle choice is limiting. How often and for what reason is there to change nozzles often enough to warrant locking yourself into this ecosystem? I see it being aimed at people who are new to 3D printing and selling them on the simplicity. Even then, is unscrewing something and screwing something else in that high of a bar?
@@dn275 I guess people have issues with stripping their heater blocks or bending the heat brake when hot tightening? But like, that can be much more easily solved by just using a copper block and adding a couple screws through the block and into the heatsink, Mosquito-style... Or just by not over-tightening the nozzle... There are even PRINTABLE TORQUE WRENCHES that folks have designed for exactly this purpose. I honestly don't understand the Revo hype when I could just get a Mosquito, with better performance, full compatibility with any of my old nozzles, a higher max temperature, and only VERY marginally more difficult nozzle swaps (oh no I'll need to get a socket wrench and be careful not to touch the hot bits). The retraction trick in the end gcode to make Revo fully cold-swappable is just as doable on a standard setup, and you only need the heater block to be hot when you're screwing the new nozzle in, so you can be unscrewing the old nozzle, putting it away, and getting out the new one while stuff heats up...
@@ShadowDrakken : Indeed. But then I also want a HF for Obxidian so I can do high-flow abrasives as well. I strongly suspect that's coming in light of how they got to HF with the Brass nozzles.
I don’t have anything to do with 3D printing at all but the cadence, the content, and the quality of his videos are always super enjoyable. It’s a great day when a new CNC Kitchen video drops.
Just love your scientific, systematic and straight forward approach every time you analyze new components, printing settings or materials. Well done, as always!
I get that pressfitting that core in there makes sense to get the best thermal transfer and makes it completely tight and rock solid. And it's probably easier and cheaper to manufacture than a threaded version. If you could unscrew that center core piece however, it would make cleaning/repairing or even replacing a worn out nozzle tip so much easier and cheaper.
I had the same thought: how the hell would you unclog that thing? You will not be able to push a needle through it, right? Also cold-pulling won't work, I guess ... So, how do you unclog this if some cooked plastic gets stuck in that bottom cavity? Lemme guess, you have to buy another one of those expensive nozzles?
And you could just replace the threaded insert to change the diameter! Wait we just designed a V6 hotend... My point is: by making it a threaded insert you would invalidate the whole design...
@@MisterkeTube the needles ive used have some flex/bend in them, but if you suspect one channel is clogged, its hard to know if your poking the right one (with a cht, anyways, and this and the clones would be the same)
This is all cool and impressive… for people who already have Revos. I personally run my Vorons up to 200-250mm/s and specifically tune my profiles to max out the hotend as best as I can. As someone who looks for performance it’s hard to imagine me ever getting a revo high flow, I think the convenience of changing a nozzle in probably 10 sek less just isn’t worth getting yourself into this ecosystem wich is limiting in many ways. I have to walk over into another room to change my printers nozzle anyways, I don’t care if I change it in 20 or 30 seconds and with the auto z calibration adjusting the z offset is also a non issue
I was waiting for your review of this! I didn't realize the price, that is insane on a wear part. The regular nozzles were bad enough. I would have liked to have seen how it fares against that drop in Chinese part that you used before, but given the issues you had with the CHT, I get why you didn't.
@@thomaskletzl6493 thinking that a new Revo Voron with a standard nozzle is $85... why do I need to pay $45 for a nozzle and another $45 for the heat element??
@@lawlcake8788 : Ding! You'd be buying an Obxidian nozzle in that case for that. Seriously, folks, everyone keeps going on about price there- unless you're doing something stupid or using cheap parts (Heh...hint...hint...) that nozzle isn't as much of a wear part as everyone keeps going on about it as. I mean, y'all aren't driving the tip into your bed all the time, riiiight? You know that glow in the dark, CF and glass, etc. are SUPER abrasive and you needed a steel, ruby or similar hardened nozzle riiiight? What're y'all doing that makes these THAT painful, hm?
Great video and appreciate your work. Please put it on consideration to test 0.6 nozzles with ABS to see what the flow rates are. The heater capacity analysis was also informative. Based on your findings I suspect a 60w is required for 0.6.
I'd say it depends on the material. You'll probably do okay with PLA/PETG/ABS/ASA. PC and Nylon will likely need the 60W to gain maximal advantages of the nozzle design.
I like that they kept the formfactor for easy switching. But on the other hand I would have liked a UHF version with an extended meltzone. Maybe that will come next year.
I suspect so. This is a nice system they've come up with. It's more robust in several ways to stock on most printers- and it's easy to change nozzles out.
You can learn many things about a person by watching their eyes while they speak. For instance, if, as a person is speaking, they close their eyes, this can be interpreted to mean they are inventing what they are saying instead of reciting something they know for a fact. When a person closes their eyes AND looks away (sometimes this is called "falling asleep"), we can interpret that as meaning they are unhappy or even ashamed of themselves because they know that have misspoke (another word for this is lie). I'm writing this here because of something I saw in your pitch for Skill Share. I don't doubt for a moment that many of the people are sincere and very creative / experienced. But then there are the hucksters. Being able to recognize that our eyes reveal our truth, I'll call it, is very helpful when you're putting together a team. Now, back to watching this GREAT VIDEO!
I have no use for a high flow nozzle, but I definitely am loving the quick-swap feature of the Revos. I've got a Revo Micro in my Prusa Mini+ and it's just simply wonderful and, rather surprisingly, reduces stringing somewhat compared to the original setup.
Looking at the cutaway, the new nozzle seems to have a "flat area" before it enters the thin section to be extruded. (As opposed to it smoothly narrowing to a point.) This looks like an issue with how it's manufactured, but could that effect it's flow?
Yeah that could become an issue over time and especially with obxidian variant + filled filaments... When you just look at the insert part standing on the outflow tip (like in the picture on the right side @ 1:45), the 4 bores that converge to the center have flat areas between them and the bore-edges are sharp and not chamferd or rounded, like with bondtech CHT. Theoretically those areas could act like flow dead zones and over time build-up of burned filament and other debris might occur until a natural flow-curve builts itself out. However, i guess E3D tested those long enough that this is not an issue with normal Filaments. Those flat areas coupled with the comparatively big widening of the filament path around the dome is most likely also the reason why Stefan could perform a proper cold pull. The plastic just gets spread to wide in diameter so you can't pull it through the typicall 2mm heatbrake/PTFE tube in a non-molten state.
It will definitely affect flow yet if you read the E3D blogpost you'll see that they played around with various different designs and deemed this to be the best.
Wait, @CNCKitchen: If the four diverted tunnels are 1mm each, then the path goes from 1.75mm to 4mm, to nozzle diameter. This not only explains why cold pulling didn't work (4mm down to 1.75mm), but doesn't that effect the flow rate when it starts and stops? Would it work better if each section was closer to 0.43mm to keep the area the same size?
Can you please make a Video about recycled PLA and annealing? I'm really interested if Filament from Recycling Fabrik has the same benefits of annealing
Maybe instead of cold pulling try using a noclogger and see if that helps. The split might be more difficult for the metal rod but it might also push through instead of having to risk damage to the nozzle.
Fantastic analysis. I think the value proposition might make sense for some very niche applications. I personally never change nozzle sizes, and a cheap knock off Volcano hotend with a CHT nozzle will outperform the Revo HT. At the price they're going for, I'd rather just buy a separate printer if I ever needed to print with a larger nozzle size.
That requires space...and if you're modding for specific things, you'd need to replicate that over multiple printers. Like the others, you felt the need to comment. Thankfully, you're more reasonable than the more mouthy in this discussion thread set.
If the insert could be removed separately you could open it so clean it and you would actually be able to remove the just the nozzle tip wear surface 🤔 E3D has pretty good engineering and they seem close to a really competitive solution
The limiting factor with the power isn't steady state, it's when suddenly you hit a fat bridge area, double the print speed, and max the fan out at the same time. It isn't that you don't have enough power for that situation, it's a question of whether your PID will sort it out before the thermal protection kills your print. This was with a brass volcano block that was just suuuper sensitive to cooling. Really a struggle to PID tune for high-flow and fan on/off, even with a sock, so it's good to have some margin on the power if you are going with high flow rates.
6:55 YES , IT AFFECT THE FLOW OF CHT !!!! try it with just sanding 1mm of the adapter so it will seal it or cut 1-2mm thick spacer from ptfe that you will insert inside to seal it (use filament as a guide before you screw the nozzle in so the spacer wont move around when you squeeze it should work great ...you can even use slice engineering Boron Nitride paste to get some extra few mm3s of flow :) or better ...go with bondtech vulcano and 1-2 m6 nuts (maybe out of copper or bronze .... im curiouse how it will work )
I'm still not enthused by encumbered/not open access designs infiltrating the hobby. FOSS is what got us to where we are now. Same shit has been happening in my other hobbies too.
It's a challenge, because when you spend 6 months at tens of thousands of generic currency units to develop and something, then release all the info on how it's made... you end up with a pile of asian manufacturers coming along and copying it all and undercutting you heavily.
This isn't basic COTS stuff, nowhere close. The v6 ecosystem took us 95% of the way to a perfect print. It takes a lot of time and money to chase the last 5%.
I think you might not have considered different fans for part cooling in your heater wattage comparison. Have you seen what fan comes stock with ratrig machines? (They use 20W server fan for layer cooling) Not to mention VZbot, or hevort where their cooling systems are really impressive. Other than that, this video was amazing! Thank you for the job you do.
yea, on my ratrig with a server fan and with 40w revo, I cannot print temps higher than 255C. Otherwise the hotend just cools down and cannot maintain temps.
Vector3D had different conclusions than you Stefan. He found the high flow Revo is better than their stock, which was lower than a stock V6. The CHT won overall with a better flow rate. He used your test print as well. Wonder if the adapter contributed to worse results?
Adam used different hotends which makes "nozzles" hard to compare. Yet his results go hand in hand with my conclusion. Revo HF is good for it's size but if you want max flow, get another hotend.
@@CNCKitchen thanks for clarifying. You were attempting to make an apples to apples comparison. So if someone took the Revo HF nozzle design and put it on a traditional V6 style hotend… It would beat the CHT head to head? So Revo’s shortcoming is the length of the heat zone/break?
Awesome video! A little off topic but I noticed that the prints off the Voron looked great! I was planning to build one myself but was wondering how the print quality compared to like a Prusa Mk3 (Mk4)?
Great video. Explained a lot. Now I understand my nozzles better. Need a better fan that doesn’t blow into my heater block and instead blows on the print
i wonder if the mass added(thumbscrew)on the end of the revo hf is part of the reason why it got a higher flow than CHT. The only way to find out is to make a chonkey CHT nozzle
I've tried the CHT clone some time ago, but I had problem where dust from filament got stuck inside the nozzle and I was unable to clean it. 1 of the 3 channels is clogged. So you should always use filament sponge filter or smiliar when using these kinds of nozzles.
Even though i am a budget 3d printer enthusiast if i were to get a highflow nozzle i'd probably end up getting one nozzle per plastic type if i was switching filaments and printing at a high volume. Currently i just push some filament through and clear out a diff type that way. I do love these HF designs though.
I have not tried the revo HF yet, and I want to, for sure. I have standard 0.4, 0.6 and 0.8 nozzles. It is true, I never changed nozzles as often as I do now, but I'd say that at least 80% of my prints are done with the 0.6 nozzle and with the speeds of the voron 2.4 I am limited by that flow. I really want to try the new HF nozzles but the fact that it is $45 a piece plus another $45 for the heating element... It really feels like a rip off. It makes me want to change to a rapido HF right now and go back to my ratchet wrench to change nozzles.
I wouldn't call it a rip-off because these things are expensive to manufacture. Yet the design is definitely not made for super cheap maufacturing. Bondtech did a great job in that regard honestly.
@@CNCKitchen maybe not if it's your first e3d hotend, but if you already have an standard one, and now you have to buy a $45 nozzle and a $45 heat element, that's adding $90 to an existing hotend. What am I going to do with my old nozzles and hot end? buy another heat sink and install it on another machine? I understand that are not cheap to manufacture but it doesn't excuse the fact that you are paying $90 for a nozzle.
Wow what a beautiful engineered design! The CHT v6 0.4 is my everyday Nozzle for the Flsun Q5, give me melting gives me security and relieves the extruder printing PCTG and PETG. This 20€ was worth it.
Curious what issues you've heard of with printing TPU with a CHT. I'm a FPV pilot so almost all of my printing these days is TPU for drone parts like GoPro mounts and using a 0.5mm CHT nozzle has allowed me to push speeds up to 50mm/s for printing some parts on my Voron V0 with standard 95A TPU. Cosmetic quality isn't "perfect" at this speed, there's some very minor surface defects, but I'll trade that for being able to print parts in just over 1/3 of the time any day. Always impressed with your vids! The level of care you put into each one is inspiring. I've been trying to devise a guide to TPU printing since I've been less than satisfied with what's out there on the subject but it's daunting.
i think i had trouble with some tpe 83 shore and a cht or cht clone nozzle.... id get very very thin walls, and then it would stop. i switched to a larger normal nozzle, and it behaved much better. im guessing its because the center of the filament is running head first into a obstruction.
Hearing the music at the beginning of the video I was - kind of - expecting smoke to flow through the screen. But... no smoke. And no fan tried to win against "The Cheater" xD
Serious question. If getting enough filament heated fast enough to keep flow up is that hard, why not a nozzle which feeds two or more strands of filament in at once? Just literally double the amount of filament inside, since as you said the heat output of the hotend isn't the bottleneck.
whenever you get the 60w version can you make a tutorial vid on how to install it on the voron? Im not sure how you would change the software when going from the 40w to 60w.
I've been having trouble with PETG prints on my MK3S+ with revo. I found that cutting the overall printer speed to 70% makes a huge difference. Maybe that means I need more cooling rather than the stock profile? So this is interesting, but I rarely print over 100% speed anyway. I might get the hardened revo......but honestly since I have an mk4 kit ordered I'll probably get a hardened nozzle for that once they become available. I'm really hoping for diamond back, but anway.....
~10% difference, give or take, from a CHT nozzle but costing like 800% more than the CHT nozzles on aliexpress? Not sure how many of these REVO intend to sell, but I wouldn't bank on them taking off... 😅
What’s the nozzle camera setup that you have on your Voron that was showing in your mainsail? Most of the commercial options I see are too close to the nozzle, but your setup looks perfect
I bought 5 nozzles for $5. I don't have a print farm and don't need more than 50mm/s. I'm happy with the standard el cheapo brass nozzles. If it gets screwed up, I just change it with a new one and won't cry for losing $50.
Watching this video gave me an idea for superior nozzle, that not only can be high flow, but also would be a single part, not requiring any inserts, or other complex processes. And could be made without purpose-designed machines. Now what I can do with this idea? Any suggestions?
Most likely nothing unless you have a good patent lawyer and can actually decide if you would need to get a licence for the core heat technology. At that point you'd then need to file a patent of your own and produce the nozzle or find a partner to do it for you. I doubt you'd make money with that unfortunately
With all the R&D they seem to put into this, I don't get why they end up with a concept where you force a ram into the coldest part (middle) of the filament. If it was me, I'd make a "flat melt", where you made the melt zone wider and wider and thinner/flatter. And then back to round. You could make that slot as narrow as the nozzle. Even smaller... Same for the Bondtech CHT. I'd think the filament would want to go into on of the 3 holes, rather than spilt..
Wouldn’t it be better for E3d to make a 60w slightly extended heater? How much more would it be to make the heater 2-3mm taller? What kind of effect would that have on cost vs flow?
Great video as always. What's your take on high-flow filament, like BambuLab's? What'd happen if we combined this Revo High flow nozzle and Bambu filament?
Can this parallel switch deal with regenerative breaking. I know there are many of these on the market but they all have the same thing in common, they are used with scooters and ebikes that have manual breaks, and they can't support regenerative setup. Please let me know and thank you for your help!
Hi CNC Kitchen, could you please look into the issue of E3D revo clogging? Plasament PLA is the only one that clogs. Other brands are okay. A lot of people have this problem and I can´t find a fix. I have a Prusa Mini+ with the 2nd gen Revo mount. My friend with a MK3s+ has the same problem too.
I like my Revo and will be upgrading my Ender 3 Max but the socks on the nozzles suck, both of the socks on my 0.4 and 0.6 only lasted about 2 weeks each before breaking off when I went to switch nozzles. Will I get a high flow, maybe someday down the road as my next purchase will be an obxidian nozzle or 2.
The question is, with such easy to swap nozzles, why not take them out (remove the sock, obviously) and heat them to a few hundred degrees with a blow torch? Usually burns off any excess plastic.
Ever since the major suckage with the non-standard nozzles of the CR-10 S Pro (M6 **fine** thread, argh!), a proprietary nozzle system is a no-go for me, not so much due to price (although 40-something bucks is pretty steep), but mainly due to availability of spares.
I really hope we get a standard Obxidian CHT nozzle. I'd gladly drop $50-60 on one of those. Not too into Revo, the costs well outweigh the benefits IMO. Also I see this thing jamming like mad with any kind of filled filament, though it's brass so CF is likely off the table already.
3:33 skillshare does need a sales pitch. Its the reason why half the youtubers in existence are sponsored by them. In all honesty, skillshare is a website far worse than youtube which is free
Its good, but the nozzle is almost as expensive as a complete Volcano hotend with a Bondtech CHT Volcano nozzle. Which probably has even higher flowrate? With regular nozzles theres also the option of hotends with even longer meltzones like rapido. Or abrasion resistant CHT Volcano nozzles (for the same price). Or knockoffs which might not perform as well but are really cheap. Theres just so many more options available as well. I really like the Revo system but at the price / performance point its a pure luxury.
If I ever get around to spinning up my 3d printing business again, things like this are worth it. For a hobbyist that may print a couple smaller things per day, probably not
I'm thinking the opposite. In a business setting you don't want to fiddle with your printers. If you need to print in multiple nozzle sizes, you just have one printer for each size. In my opinion the Revo is mostly useful for hobbyists with limited space, or who really don't want to own more than one printer.
doesn't the PTFE on the adapter limits the heat exchange?? BTW If someone needs ideas for nozzles, just look at the crazy machining of oil heater nozzles with vortex generators etc.
Huh, a TriangleLabs CHC hotend is a less proprietary version of the Revo. And TriangleLabs TUN nozzles are effectively the Revo nozzles without the Hemera threading.
Why not run a water soluable filament through the heated tip to clear it of any residual previous filament, then allow the tip to cool down ,drop the tip into a glass of water, et viola! Cleared tip!.
@CNC Kitchen, is anyone out there preheating the filament before it goes through the nozzle? I can't find a single project that's doing that. Perhaps you know of one?
What's your take on E3Ds new High Flow nozzle? Too expensive or exactly what you've been waiting for?
Oh, and check out our CNC Kitchen products at cnckitchen.store/ or at our resellers www.cnckitchen.com/reseller
It looks nice
Are you not concerned that the Teflon tape insulated the CHT nozzle and prevented it from performing at its full potential?
Considering the price of a revo + hf nozzle comes pretty close to a Goliath I think it's a bit expensive for how little flow it actually offers.
@@twanheijkoop6753 a Goliath Hotend review would be great once those come out!
@@EricYanush This! Lets compare these two cars but on the competitors car we are going to put an artificial restriction in the exhaust system! WOW look how fast the new car is!
Yeah this continues to demonstrate why I have no plans to ever "upgrade" to Revo. I can get a hardened steel CHT nozzle today, and I still don't see the benefit of rapid nozzle changes as someone who is MAYBE using his printer 25% of the time, so just having a wear resistant 0.4mm nozzle is really all I need. Especially since so much of what I make is structural parts, where printing fast can be a really bad thing for part strength, I'll happily trade the 50% longer print times for just knowing that my printer will happily handle everything from PLA to carbon filled PC with zero issues...
It would be nice in my opinion, but between the Closed Source Nature, and like you said how an abrasive resistant 0.4mm (or whatever your “standard nozzle size” is) nozzle will work 75% of the time, I don’t see much of a need there.
that's also what I'm interested in, though I've heard larger nozzles actually make stronger parts? like what if you printed 0.8 on PAHT-CF or GF-PC? that's what i want to know 😭
cool story
I still don't understand the sales pitch for this system. Nozzle changes are already easy and quick. Nozzle choice is limiting. How often and for what reason is there to change nozzles often enough to warrant locking yourself into this ecosystem? I see it being aimed at people who are new to 3D printing and selling them on the simplicity. Even then, is unscrewing something and screwing something else in that high of a bar?
@@dn275 I guess people have issues with stripping their heater blocks or bending the heat brake when hot tightening? But like, that can be much more easily solved by just using a copper block and adding a couple screws through the block and into the heatsink, Mosquito-style... Or just by not over-tightening the nozzle... There are even PRINTABLE TORQUE WRENCHES that folks have designed for exactly this purpose. I honestly don't understand the Revo hype when I could just get a Mosquito, with better performance, full compatibility with any of my old nozzles, a higher max temperature, and only VERY marginally more difficult nozzle swaps (oh no I'll need to get a socket wrench and be careful not to touch the hot bits). The retraction trick in the end gcode to make Revo fully cold-swappable is just as doable on a standard setup, and you only need the heater block to be hot when you're screwing the new nozzle in, so you can be unscrewing the old nozzle, putting it away, and getting out the new one while stuff heats up...
Now we just need Obsidian HF for PETG to prevent the curling caused by PETG's love of sticking to copper. :D
I want a HF Diamondback !
I thought PETG sticking and build-up was solved with nickel plating, as well as improving abrasion resistance.
@@ericlotze7724 I want diamondback in germany without exorbitant shipping/import tax :(
@@BladeWalker91 helped maybe, but I wouldn't say solved.
@@ShadowDrakken : Indeed. But then I also want a HF for Obxidian so I can do high-flow abrasives as well. I strongly suspect that's coming in light of how they got to HF with the Brass nozzles.
I don’t have anything to do with 3D printing at all but the cadence, the content, and the quality of his videos are always super enjoyable. It’s a great day when a new CNC Kitchen video drops.
Fess up, you know you want one...
Just love your scientific, systematic and straight forward approach every time you analyze new components, printing settings or materials. Well done, as always!
I get that pressfitting that core in there makes sense to get the best thermal transfer and makes it completely tight and rock solid. And it's probably easier and cheaper to manufacture than a threaded version. If you could unscrew that center core piece however, it would make cleaning/repairing or even replacing a worn out nozzle tip so much easier and cheaper.
I had the same thought: how the hell would you unclog that thing? You will not be able to push a needle through it, right? Also cold-pulling won't work, I guess ... So, how do you unclog this if some cooked plastic gets stuck in that bottom cavity? Lemme guess, you have to buy another one of those expensive nozzles?
Lining up the holes would be a nightmare with threads.
@@MisterkeTube Probaly burning it out by heating the nozzle with a torch
And you could just replace the threaded insert to change the diameter! Wait we just designed a V6 hotend... My point is: by making it a threaded insert you would invalidate the whole design...
@@MisterkeTube the needles ive used have some flex/bend in them, but if you suspect one channel is clogged, its hard to know if your poking the right one (with a cht, anyways, and this and the clones would be the same)
This is all cool and impressive… for people who already have Revos. I personally run my Vorons up to 200-250mm/s and specifically tune my profiles to max out the hotend as best as I can. As someone who looks for performance it’s hard to imagine me ever getting a revo high flow, I think the convenience of changing a nozzle in probably 10 sek less just isn’t worth getting yourself into this ecosystem wich is limiting in many ways. I have to walk over into another room to change my printers nozzle anyways, I don’t care if I change it in 20 or 30 seconds and with the auto z calibration adjusting the z offset is also a non issue
I was waiting for your review of this! I didn't realize the price, that is insane on a wear part. The regular nozzles were bad enough. I would have liked to have seen how it fares against that drop in Chinese part that you used before, but given the issues you had with the CHT, I get why you didn't.
My jaw literally dropped when I heard the price. That's insane.
i dont really see the problem with that price its not really expensiv i mean how often do you need a new nozzel
@@thomaskletzl6493 if you print non Glowing CF or white filaments then yea i suppose you dont need to replace very often
@@thomaskletzl6493 thinking that a new Revo Voron with a standard nozzle is $85...
why do I need to pay $45 for a nozzle and another $45 for the heat element??
@@lawlcake8788 : Ding! You'd be buying an Obxidian nozzle in that case for that. Seriously, folks, everyone keeps going on about price there- unless you're doing something stupid or using cheap parts (Heh...hint...hint...) that nozzle isn't as much of a wear part as everyone keeps going on about it as.
I mean, y'all aren't driving the tip into your bed all the time, riiiight?
You know that glow in the dark, CF and glass, etc. are SUPER abrasive and you needed a steel, ruby or similar hardened nozzle riiiight?
What're y'all doing that makes these THAT painful, hm?
Great video and appreciate your work. Please put it on consideration to test 0.6 nozzles with ABS to see what the flow rates are. The heater capacity analysis was also informative. Based on your findings I suspect a 60w is required for 0.6.
I'd say it depends on the material. You'll probably do okay with PLA/PETG/ABS/ASA. PC and Nylon will likely need the 60W to gain maximal advantages of the nozzle design.
I like that they kept the formfactor for easy switching. But on the other hand I would have liked a UHF version with an extended meltzone. Maybe that will come next year.
I suspect so. This is a nice system they've come up with. It's more robust in several ways to stock on most printers- and it's easy to change nozzles out.
Awesome video delivering even great values for designing own hotends. Thanks a lot!
0:35 that intro music ..... i instantly think about noctua fan comparison xD
"So make sure to not lose your socks." Well played, sir. Thumbs up!
You can learn many things about a person by watching their eyes while they speak. For instance, if, as a person is speaking, they close their eyes, this can be interpreted to mean they are inventing what they are saying instead of reciting something they know for a fact. When a person closes their eyes AND looks away (sometimes this is called "falling asleep"), we can interpret that as meaning they are unhappy or even ashamed of themselves because they know that have misspoke (another word for this is lie). I'm writing this here because of something I saw in your pitch for Skill Share. I don't doubt for a moment that many of the people are sincere and very creative / experienced. But then there are the hucksters. Being able to recognize that our eyes reveal our truth, I'll call it, is very helpful when you're putting together a team. Now, back to watching this GREAT VIDEO!
I have no use for a high flow nozzle, but I definitely am loving the quick-swap feature of the Revos. I've got a Revo Micro in my Prusa Mini+ and it's just simply wonderful and, rather surprisingly, reduces stringing somewhat compared to the original setup.
It's called the Trianglelabs TUN nozzle lmao.
@@shapshooter7769 Did you reply to the wrong comment or something?
Looking at the cutaway, the new nozzle seems to have a "flat area" before it enters the thin section to be extruded. (As opposed to it smoothly narrowing to a point.)
This looks like an issue with how it's manufactured, but could that effect it's flow?
I wonder if its more efficient than a sharp tip
Looking at the entire nozzle, it looks like it might be stepping down the size to smooth melt path, if I were to guess anwyway, I am no engineer lol
Yeah that could become an issue over time and especially with obxidian variant + filled filaments...
When you just look at the insert part standing on the outflow tip (like in the picture on the right side @ 1:45), the 4 bores that converge to the center have flat areas between them and the bore-edges are sharp and not chamferd or rounded, like with bondtech CHT.
Theoretically those areas could act like flow dead zones and over time build-up of burned filament and other debris might occur until a natural flow-curve builts itself out.
However, i guess E3D tested those long enough that this is not an issue with normal Filaments.
Those flat areas coupled with the comparatively big widening of the filament path around the dome is most likely also the reason why Stefan could perform a proper cold pull.
The plastic just gets spread to wide in diameter so you can't pull it through the typicall 2mm heatbrake/PTFE tube in a non-molten state.
It will definitely affect flow yet if you read the E3D blogpost you'll see that they played around with various different designs and deemed this to be the best.
Wait, @CNCKitchen: If the four diverted tunnels are 1mm each, then the path goes from 1.75mm to 4mm, to nozzle diameter. This not only explains why cold pulling didn't work (4mm down to 1.75mm), but doesn't that effect the flow rate when it starts and stops? Would it work better if each section was closer to 0.43mm to keep the area the same size?
Can you please make a Video about recycled PLA and annealing? I'm really interested if Filament from Recycling Fabrik has the same benefits of annealing
You'll be able to anneal their PLA just like any other with all the warping problems.
@@CNCKitchen My question is if recycled filament is stronger than normal filament
simply amazing and thorough testing as always, sold me!
Great to hear!
Great coverage!
Looking forward to your Matias V6 adapter review.
Maybe instead of cold pulling try using a noclogger and see if that helps. The split might be more difficult for the metal rod but it might also push through instead of having to risk damage to the nozzle.
Fantastic analysis. I think the value proposition might make sense for some very niche applications. I personally never change nozzle sizes, and a cheap knock off Volcano hotend with a CHT nozzle will outperform the Revo HT. At the price they're going for, I'd rather just buy a separate printer if I ever needed to print with a larger nozzle size.
That requires space...and if you're modding for specific things, you'd need to replicate that over multiple printers.
Like the others, you felt the need to comment. Thankfully, you're more reasonable than the more mouthy in this discussion thread set.
Great report. Thanks for providing the additional insights at the end of this video!
it's an insert(the nozzle side is machine separately and press fit inserted into the 'holder', midway of the path split).
Looks neat. Only problem might be that they are harder to unclog when needed.
If the insert could be removed separately you could open it so clean it and you would actually be able to remove the just the nozzle tip wear surface 🤔 E3D has pretty good engineering and they seem close to a really competitive solution
This was my thought the entire video. I guess these high flow nozzles are only good for lab or professional environments using high quality filament.
Become a cold-pull champ and then you might be able to unclog it ;-) Maybe cleaning filament might also help.
@@CNCKitchen That's the thing. the shape in the middle creates an undercut so I don't think you can do cold pulls with one of these.
@@ManWithBeard1990 if you do succeed it would look quite alien like for sure! haha
What about retention? Doesnt the Complex geometry make it harder to pull back? Resulting in stringing with flexible and pet materials?
Haven't seen more stringing on it, so far.
"You know who doesn't need a salespitch?" ...proceeds to give a salespitch. I don't know if that ironic humor was intended.
The limiting factor with the power isn't steady state, it's when suddenly you hit a fat bridge area, double the print speed, and max the fan out at the same time. It isn't that you don't have enough power for that situation, it's a question of whether your PID will sort it out before the thermal protection kills your print. This was with a brass volcano block that was just suuuper sensitive to cooling. Really a struggle to PID tune for high-flow and fan on/off, even with a sock, so it's good to have some margin on the power if you are going with high flow rates.
With this, I'll be buying into the Revo ecosystem. I have installed the micro on my Prusa Mini, and I'm looking at possibly a Revo hemera for my mk3s.
Now's finally a good time to jump on the band wagon.
"You know what doesn't need a sales pitch the thing I'm doing a sales pitch for" had to laugh
6:55
YES , IT AFFECT THE FLOW OF CHT !!!!
try it with just sanding 1mm of the adapter so it will seal it or cut 1-2mm thick spacer from ptfe that you will insert inside to seal it (use filament as a guide before you screw the nozzle in so the spacer wont move around when you squeeze it
should work great ...you can even use slice engineering Boron Nitride paste to get some extra few mm3s of flow :)
or better ...go with bondtech vulcano and 1-2 m6 nuts (maybe out of copper or bronze .... im curiouse how it will work )
have you tested vez3ds goliath hotend yet?, if not this would be increadibly interesting!
I have not. Gotta ask Mello3D to send one over.
@@CNCKitchen would be so awesome to see!!!
Thank you for adding print speed.
The channel that every 3d printing company watches.
🤗
I'm still not enthused by encumbered/not open access designs infiltrating the hobby. FOSS is what got us to where we are now. Same shit has been happening in my other hobbies too.
It's a challenge, because when you spend 6 months at tens of thousands of generic currency units to develop and something, then release all the info on how it's made... you end up with a pile of asian manufacturers coming along and copying it all and undercutting you heavily.
This isn't basic COTS stuff, nowhere close. The v6 ecosystem took us 95% of the way to a perfect print. It takes a lot of time and money to chase the last 5%.
I think you might not have considered different fans for part cooling in your heater wattage comparison.
Have you seen what fan comes stock with ratrig machines? (They use 20W server fan for layer cooling)
Not to mention VZbot, or hevort where their cooling systems are really impressive.
Other than that, this video was amazing! Thank you for the job you do.
yea, on my ratrig with a server fan and with 40w revo, I cannot print temps higher than 255C. Otherwise the hotend just cools down and cannot maintain temps.
Vector3D had different conclusions than you Stefan. He found the high flow Revo is better than their stock, which was lower than a stock V6. The CHT won overall with a better flow rate. He used your test print as well.
Wonder if the adapter contributed to worse results?
Vector3D found its lower than a Pheatus Rapido with a stock V6 nozzle. The Rapido is way longer which is why it performs as well as it does
@@jamesclive-smith3383 Am I wrong about the CHT nozzle having a better flow rate vs the Revo high flow.
The issue was probably the teflon tape, insulating the tip.
Adam used different hotends which makes "nozzles" hard to compare. Yet his results go hand in hand with my conclusion. Revo HF is good for it's size but if you want max flow, get another hotend.
@@CNCKitchen thanks for clarifying. You were attempting to make an apples to apples comparison. So if someone took the Revo HF nozzle design and put it on a traditional V6 style hotend… It would beat the CHT head to head? So Revo’s shortcoming is the length of the heat zone/break?
Awesome video! A little off topic but I noticed that the prints off the Voron looked great! I was planning to build one myself but was wondering how the print quality compared to like a Prusa Mk3 (Mk4)?
Great video. Explained a lot. Now I understand my nozzles better. Need a better fan that doesn’t blow into my heater block and instead blows on the print
theyve started making CHT nozzles in hardened steel, i got em on amazon for like 15 each, for anyone who needs em for carbon and such.
i wonder if the mass added(thumbscrew)on the end of the revo hf is part of the reason why it got a higher flow than CHT. The only way to find out is to make a chonkey CHT nozzle
Fantastic review!!! I’m very curious to know how was the ambient temperature during those heater test… with and withou the silicon sock
Loved this overview. Thanks for sharing!
I've tried the CHT clone some time ago, but I had problem where dust from filament got stuck inside the nozzle and I was unable to clean it. 1 of the 3 channels is clogged. So you should always use filament sponge filter or smiliar when using these kinds of nozzles.
Yay. That formula will be helpful. Great video value as always.
Thanks Stefan, these are quality insights as always.
Even though i am a budget 3d printer enthusiast if i were to get a highflow nozzle i'd probably end up getting one nozzle per plastic type if i was switching filaments and printing at a high volume. Currently i just push some filament through and clear out a diff type that way.
I do love these HF designs though.
I have not tried the revo HF yet, and I want to, for sure. I have standard 0.4, 0.6 and 0.8 nozzles. It is true, I never changed nozzles as often as I do now, but I'd say that at least 80% of my prints are done with the 0.6 nozzle and with the speeds of the voron 2.4 I am limited by that flow.
I really want to try the new HF nozzles but the fact that it is $45 a piece plus another $45 for the heating element... It really feels like a rip off. It makes me want to change to a rapido HF right now and go back to my ratchet wrench to change nozzles.
I wouldn't call it a rip-off because these things are expensive to manufacture. Yet the design is definitely not made for super cheap maufacturing. Bondtech did a great job in that regard honestly.
@@CNCKitchen maybe not if it's your first e3d hotend, but if you already have an standard one, and now you have to buy a $45 nozzle and a $45 heat element, that's adding $90 to an existing hotend. What am I going to do with my old nozzles and hot end? buy another heat sink and install it on another machine?
I understand that are not cheap to manufacture but it doesn't excuse the fact that you are paying $90 for a nozzle.
Wow what a beautiful engineered design! The CHT v6 0.4 is my everyday Nozzle for the Flsun Q5, give me melting gives me security and relieves the extruder printing PCTG and PETG. This 20€ was worth it.
maximum science ahead! Excellent content.
Curious what issues you've heard of with printing TPU with a CHT. I'm a FPV pilot so almost all of my printing these days is TPU for drone parts like GoPro mounts and using a 0.5mm CHT nozzle has allowed me to push speeds up to 50mm/s for printing some parts on my Voron V0 with standard 95A TPU. Cosmetic quality isn't "perfect" at this speed, there's some very minor surface defects, but I'll trade that for being able to print parts in just over 1/3 of the time any day.
Always impressed with your vids! The level of care you put into each one is inspiring. I've been trying to devise a guide to TPU printing since I've been less than satisfied with what's out there on the subject but it's daunting.
i think i had trouble with some tpe 83 shore and a cht or cht clone nozzle.... id get very very thin walls, and then it would stop. i switched to a larger normal nozzle, and it behaved much better. im guessing its because the center of the filament is running head first into a obstruction.
Hearing the music at the beginning of the video I was - kind of - expecting smoke to flow through the screen. But... no smoke. And no fan tried to win against "The Cheater" xD
That's a good show. I thought the wrong video loaded after I clicked on it
me too :D
Serious question. If getting enough filament heated fast enough to keep flow up is that hard, why not a nozzle which feeds two or more strands of filament in at once? Just literally double the amount of filament inside, since as you said the heat output of the hotend isn't the bottleneck.
Every once in a while I like to watch something like this to see what I cannot justify spending money on. You do great videos, though. Excellent job.
whenever you get the 60w version can you make a tutorial vid on how to install it on the voron? Im not sure how you would change the software when going from the 40w to 60w.
Just a PID tune, no other changes needed.
From the cross section it looks like they mill from nozzle end before freezeplugging or pressing a piece in then milling that part to finish.
So the question is will there be an Obsidian HF?
I guess and hope but looking at E3Ds track record I wouldn't count on it getting released this year 😅
For that price it's cheaper to just have multiple hotends to hot swap with the voron's afterburner (which I use on a prusa i3).
I'm holding out for Obsidian High Flow. Once that comes out, they can take my money!!
I've been having trouble with PETG prints on my MK3S+ with revo. I found that cutting the overall printer speed to 70% makes a huge difference. Maybe that means I need more cooling rather than the stock profile? So this is interesting, but I rarely print over 100% speed anyway. I might get the hardened revo......but honestly since I have an mk4 kit ordered I'll probably get a hardened nozzle for that once they become available. I'm really hoping for diamond back, but anway.....
i'm currently running a CHT clone with those coper inserts and honestly, it's worked wonders for my projects, and... 6$ for like 4
What, you don't want to pay $20 for one nozzle?
@@pure6450 No.
~10% difference, give or take, from a CHT nozzle but costing like 800% more than the CHT nozzles on aliexpress? Not sure how many of these REVO intend to sell, but I wouldn't bank on them taking off... 😅
What’s the nozzle camera setup that you have on your Voron that was showing in your mainsail? Most of the commercial options I see are too close to the nozzle, but your setup looks perfect
I bought 5 nozzles for $5. I don't have a print farm and don't need more than 50mm/s.
I'm happy with the standard el cheapo brass nozzles.
If it gets screwed up, I just change it with a new one and won't cry for losing $50.
Could you consider to sandpaper away enough material on the tip to change the sealing point on the adapter and test it again?
Hmm, I've been able to run my Axi 2 with a cht insert type knockoff nozzle and I get 25mm^3 with good extrusion.
As always, this is a great video Stefan.
Watching this video gave me an idea for superior nozzle, that not only can be high flow, but also would be a single part, not requiring any inserts, or other complex processes. And could be made without purpose-designed machines. Now what I can do with this idea? Any suggestions?
Most likely nothing unless you have a good patent lawyer and can actually decide if you would need to get a licence for the core heat technology.
At that point you'd then need to file a patent of your own and produce the nozzle or find a partner to do it for you.
I doubt you'd make money with that unfortunately
You used the same music for your into as @MajorHardware uses for his fan smoke tests, Thats awesome haha!
100% adorable 🤩
With all the R&D they seem to put into this, I don't get why they end up with a concept where you force a ram into the coldest part (middle) of the filament. If it was me, I'd make a "flat melt", where you made the melt zone wider and wider and thinner/flatter. And then back to round. You could make that slot as narrow as the nozzle. Even smaller...
Same for the Bondtech CHT. I'd think the filament would want to go into on of the 3 holes, rather than spilt..
Would tungsten carbide high flow nozzles ever be a thing? Been looking for something like that for ages but cant seem to find anything.
What good it's to split flow as it can't be heated from center anyway?
Wouldn’t it be better for E3d to make a 60w slightly extended heater? How much more would it be to make the heater 2-3mm taller? What kind of effect would that have on cost vs flow?
I really enjoy your test videos!
drink every time Stefan says "yet"
Great video as always. What's your take on high-flow filament, like BambuLab's? What'd happen if we combined this Revo High flow nozzle and Bambu filament?
Can this parallel switch deal with regenerative breaking.
I know there are many of these on the market but they all have the same thing in common, they are used with scooters and ebikes that have manual breaks, and they can't support regenerative setup.
Please let me know and thank you for your help!
Hi CNC Kitchen, could you please look into the issue of E3D revo clogging? Plasament PLA is the only one that clogs. Other brands are okay. A lot of people have this problem and I can´t find a fix. I have a Prusa Mini+ with the 2nd gen Revo mount. My friend with a MK3s+ has the same problem too.
sudden Journey Across Japan vibes with the intro 😄
I wonder if this type of nozzle affects the multi- colour effect of bi-colour and tri-colour filaments?
I like my Revo and will be upgrading my Ender 3 Max but the socks on the nozzles suck, both of the socks on my 0.4 and 0.6 only lasted about 2 weeks each before breaking off when I went to switch nozzles. Will I get a high flow, maybe someday down the road as my next purchase will be an obxidian nozzle or 2.
I’m super curious about print quality improvements from this as I wanted to write software to compensate for the flow variations
The question is, with such easy to swap nozzles, why not take them out (remove the sock, obviously) and heat them to a few hundred degrees with a blow torch? Usually burns off any excess plastic.
Ever since the major suckage with the non-standard nozzles of the CR-10 S Pro (M6 **fine** thread, argh!), a proprietary nozzle system is a no-go for me, not so much due to price (although 40-something bucks is pretty steep), but mainly due to availability of spares.
you had a segment on the CHT that showed them to have 30mm^3 speed...
I really hope we get a standard Obxidian CHT nozzle. I'd gladly drop $50-60 on one of those. Not too into Revo, the costs well outweigh the benefits IMO.
Also I see this thing jamming like mad with any kind of filled filament, though it's brass so CF is likely off the table already.
For a half second during that into I expected smoke to start pouring towards a 3D printed fan.
3:33 skillshare does need a sales pitch. Its the reason why half the youtubers in existence are sponsored by them. In all honesty, skillshare is a website far worse than youtube which is free
things could get very intresting if e3d bring out a heater core 2 times longer and a nozzle that fits with the high flow internals
I'm wondering if a high-flow ruby nozzle will ever become a thing...
Its good, but the nozzle is almost as expensive as a complete Volcano hotend with a Bondtech CHT Volcano nozzle. Which probably has even higher flowrate? With regular nozzles theres also the option of hotends with even longer meltzones like rapido. Or abrasion resistant CHT Volcano nozzles (for the same price). Or knockoffs which might not perform as well but are really cheap. Theres just so many more options available as well.
I really like the Revo system but at the price / performance point its a pure luxury.
Can we get a picture of a Cut in Half Diamondback Nozzle to match these cut in half pictures of nozzles?
(Edit: Added Clarification)
If I ever get around to spinning up my 3d printing business again, things like this are worth it. For a hobbyist that may print a couple smaller things per day, probably not
I'm thinking the opposite. In a business setting you don't want to fiddle with your printers. If you need to print in multiple nozzle sizes, you just have one printer for each size. In my opinion the Revo is mostly useful for hobbyists with limited space, or who really don't want to own more than one printer.
doesn't the PTFE on the adapter limits the heat exchange??
BTW If someone needs ideas for nozzles, just look at the crazy machining of oil heater nozzles with vortex generators etc.
can you maybe show how to install it on the prusa mini?
Huh, a TriangleLabs CHC hotend is a less proprietary version of the Revo.
And TriangleLabs TUN nozzles are effectively the Revo nozzles without the Hemera threading.
Are the specific heats of all polymers around the same as pla?
That looks like a modified stealthburner front cover -at least. Would you be able to share that mod?
Why not run a water soluable filament through the heated tip to clear it of any residual previous filament, then allow the tip to cool down ,drop the tip into a glass of water, et viola! Cleared tip!.
or cleaning filament
@CNC Kitchen, is anyone out there preheating the filament before it goes through the nozzle? I can't find a single project that's doing that. Perhaps you know of one?