Yes, dont like red for AC hot wires, should be black. Which is why yellow is used for DC negative now. My 1970 boat, the AC uses a Square D QO distribution panel, totally seperate far away from the DC area. I kept the AC panel and replaced all branch breakers (except for 2) with GFCI-AFCI combo breakers several years ago. My AC system is very tight, no leaks, I can plug entire boat into a GFCI extension and it will not trip the power. I run the cruisair heat pump on GFCI-AFCI. Only thing I left on standard breaker was the fridge, never want it nuisance tripping off. I feed my boat with twin 30 amp shore power, running to twin 30 amp 2 pole GE breakers, then on to the square D panel. It gets more complex, as I have an Onan genset, so I also created my own automatic controlled gen-shore-inverter power selector box, using 2 four pole 35 amp relays, since you have to switch both hot and neutral at same time. I can turn things off and on regarding shore power by a couple of small toggle switches at the helm. They had to be 4 pole relays since I have to switch twin 30 amp power sources. Using 2 four pole relays, you can have 3 sources of power, twin 30 shore cords, one gen set, one inverter, and switch the boat AC system to whatever one you want. Control the relays with a standard toggle switch. One relay cascades into the next. If you only used 1 relay, you could only switch 2 power sources, each additional relay cascading into the next allows for another power source to be used. Since you only need 3 sources of power, all you need is two relays.
Thanks for the video, great info. But I don’t understand how you terminate the DC wires on a terminal strip and then have have a seperate breaker panel…. Can you provide a drawing or show an example of a correct 12v panel. Thanks 😊
Hi John, imagine the terminal strip as a replacement for a butt connector. For instance, if the wiring to your circuit breaker was too short from the load, you might be tempted to extend the wire with a butt connector. Instead of extending the wire using a butt connector, you might also join the two wires with a terminal strip.
This video was super informative. Thank you. 1.) What would you recommend for a protective cover to retro install to the backside of the AC breakers for protection on a panel like this? 2.) You mentioned a rule of thumb for nuisance sizing breakers but what’s the rule of thumb for sizing wire vs max device load?
I've seen most with standoffs and plexiglass. Always size the breaker to protect the wire so it does not burn when overloaded. The end device should have its own protection as needed e.g. a local fuse of an appropriate size. This is to keep the device from burning up or overheating. Obviously not everything justifies local protection (light bulb) and electronics will often have a fuse built in if needed. Larger motors will sometimes have their own overload protection and some kind of reset button but these are not common on a boat.
Well what about 3 phase AC circuits on boats? Red Black and Blue have always been the standard colors of the hot phases both on boats and on land? Even singe phase 240 circuits typically run a black and a red as the hot legs both on boats and land. I’ve never had any problems with running normal red black blue and white wiring or cable when it comes to CG inspections on inspected vessels?
Even split phase (240v) will have a red wire in the bundle with black/red/white/green. In general though you should only see those at the breaker and then again at the outlet. The rest should be sheathed. Maybe marine wire for that purpose comes in a different color set. My boat was wired using romex for euro-spec several owners back in addition to the standard 120v that it originally came with. Its last proper refit was in the 80's (old boat) so no idea on the original panel. I am curios though - have you seen 3-phase on a boat? I have it in my shop but I've not seen it dockside. Maybe on large/military vessels?
Almost every boat I work on has 3 phase power. This includes passenger boats, tug boats, supply boats, crew boats, and even larger pleasure boats. If you don’t have 3 phase power then you won’t be able to run motors. Considering that 3 phase electric motors are needed to run everything from your steering pumps, to your air compressors a boat couldn’t function without it. Pretty much anything commercial over about 40-50 feet is going to have a three phase electrical system. As far as recreational boats go, it’s generally over about 100-120 feet.
Hi Jeff. I think this might be a common problem/choice to make by owners: The original cable from engine harness that comes to the gauges console was modified to replace its original 16 pins conector to a spade conector for each wire and from them to their respective gauges. I am tempted to use a strip connector to make that conection but i see nowhere to attach that strip connector because original harness is not that long and leave it in mid air it does not look wise. I have been considering to make wires longer by soldering a pigtail or other mean acceptable. Please share your thoughts in a situation like mine. Thanks!!!
Hi Luis, had a similar challenge on my boat, in the end decided to cut and terminate the engine harness cable near the engine and since the engine harness cabling wasn't long enough, instead of extending the wires, decided to run new wires from terminal strip to engine.
how do you decide what type wire to run. Meaning single conductors red and yellow as to running a conductor in a white covering? Is it required to put the single conductors in the flex tube?
Assuming you have the space to run a duplex cable with red and yellow DC conductors, I’d run a duplex. Often, space is at a premium or the negative and positive aren’t going back to the same place at the panel, therefore a single red or yellow is used. Always take all measures to prevent chafe on a boat.
Never assume cable colours, especially on boats. boats are made all over the world and different countries have different cable designations, I balked when you said yellow for ground.
Hi James, your right about color codes varying. Notwithstanding, you should always follow the wire color code of your jurisdiction when doing electrical wiring.
![Gunna - HIM ALL ALONG [Official Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/w7Wf0h1Q8a4/mqdefault.jpg)
I learn at least one or two things from each of your videos. Thanks for taking the time to put these out!!
Thank you for your feedback Benjamin!
coming from the airline industry as an avionics tech... when you dropped the panel, omfg what a rats nest of crapola, scary. great video
Yes, dont like red for AC hot wires, should be black. Which is why yellow is used for DC negative now. My 1970 boat, the AC uses a Square D QO distribution panel, totally seperate far away from the DC area. I kept the AC panel and replaced all branch breakers (except for 2) with GFCI-AFCI combo breakers several years ago. My AC system is very tight, no leaks, I can plug entire boat into a GFCI extension and it will not trip the power. I run the cruisair heat pump on GFCI-AFCI. Only thing I left on standard breaker was the fridge, never want it nuisance tripping off. I feed my boat with twin 30 amp shore power, running to twin 30 amp 2 pole GE breakers, then on to the square D panel. It gets more complex, as I have an Onan genset, so I also created my own automatic controlled gen-shore-inverter power selector box, using 2 four pole 35 amp relays, since you have to switch both hot and neutral at same time. I can turn things off and on regarding shore power by a couple of small toggle switches at the helm. They had to be 4 pole relays since I have to switch twin 30 amp power sources.
Using 2 four pole relays, you can have 3 sources of power, twin 30 shore cords, one gen set, one inverter, and switch the boat AC system to whatever one you want. Control the relays with a standard toggle switch. One relay cascades into the next. If you only used 1 relay, you could only switch 2 power sources, each additional relay cascading into the next allows for another power source to be used. Since you only need 3 sources of power, all you need is two relays.
Thanks for sharing Scott,.
Thanks for the video, great info. But I don’t understand how you terminate the DC wires on a terminal strip and then have have a seperate breaker panel…. Can you provide a drawing or show an example of a correct 12v panel.
Thanks 😊
Hi John, imagine the terminal strip as a replacement for a butt connector. For instance, if the wiring to your circuit breaker was too short from the load, you might be tempted to extend the wire with a butt connector. Instead of extending the wire using a butt connector, you might also join the two wires with a terminal strip.
Jeff do you use terminal blocks for the AC side, do they come with protective covers.
Yep, you should definitely get protective covers for any AC connections on a terminal block.
This video was super informative. Thank you. 1.) What would you recommend for a protective cover to retro install to the backside of the AC breakers for protection on a panel like this? 2.) You mentioned a rule of thumb for nuisance sizing breakers but what’s the rule of thumb for sizing wire vs max device load?
I've seen most with standoffs and plexiglass. Always size the breaker to protect the wire so it does not burn when overloaded. The end device should have its own protection as needed e.g. a local fuse of an appropriate size. This is to keep the device from burning up or overheating. Obviously not everything justifies local protection (light bulb) and electronics will often have a fuse built in if needed. Larger motors will sometimes have their own overload protection and some kind of reset button but these are not common on a boat.
Hi Great video do you have the link to the work you did on this Panel , know i have seen it before but cant find it , thanks in advance Jeff
Your videos are fantastic! Is there any chance I could get a copy of that audit sheet to check my boat and see how bad it is?
Well what about 3 phase AC circuits on boats? Red Black and Blue have always been the standard colors of the hot phases both on boats and on land? Even singe phase 240 circuits typically run a black and a red as the hot legs both on boats and land. I’ve never had any problems with running normal red black blue and white wiring or cable when it comes to CG inspections on inspected vessels?
Even split phase (240v) will have a red wire in the bundle with black/red/white/green. In general though you should only see those at the breaker and then again at the outlet. The rest should be sheathed. Maybe marine wire for that purpose comes in a different color set. My boat was wired using romex for euro-spec several owners back in addition to the standard 120v that it originally came with. Its last proper refit was in the 80's (old boat) so no idea on the original panel. I am curios though - have you seen 3-phase on a boat? I have it in my shop but I've not seen it dockside. Maybe on large/military vessels?
Almost every boat I work on has 3 phase power. This includes passenger boats, tug boats, supply boats, crew boats, and even larger pleasure boats. If you don’t have 3 phase power then you won’t be able to run motors. Considering that 3 phase electric motors are needed to run everything from your steering pumps, to your air compressors a boat couldn’t function without it. Pretty much anything commercial over about 40-50 feet is going to have a three phase electrical system. As far as recreational boats go, it’s generally over about 100-120 feet.
@@Trump985 Interesting. I know some people doing commercial work on boats but never asked.
Hi Jeff. I think this might be a common problem/choice to make by owners: The original cable from engine harness that comes to the gauges console was modified to replace its original 16 pins conector to a spade conector for each wire and from them to their respective gauges. I am tempted to use a strip connector to make that conection but i see nowhere to attach that strip connector because original harness is not that long and leave it in mid air it does not look wise. I have been considering to make wires longer by soldering a pigtail or other mean acceptable. Please share your thoughts in a situation like mine. Thanks!!!
Hi Luis, had a similar challenge on my boat, in the end decided to cut and terminate the engine harness cable near the engine and since the engine harness cabling wasn't long enough, instead of extending the wires, decided to run new wires from terminal strip to engine.
@@PacificYachtSystems So basically your new wires became a new harness?
how do you decide what type wire to run. Meaning single conductors red and yellow as to running a conductor in a white covering? Is it required to put the single conductors in the flex tube?
Assuming you have the space to run a duplex cable with red and yellow DC conductors, I’d run a duplex. Often, space is at a premium or the negative and positive aren’t going back to the same place at the panel, therefore a single red or yellow is used. Always take all measures to prevent chafe on a boat.
Never assume cable colours, especially on boats. boats are made all over the world and different countries have different cable designations, I balked when you said yellow for ground.
Hi James, your right about color codes varying. Notwithstanding, you should always follow the wire color code of your jurisdiction when doing electrical wiring.
caught in old patterns and ideas. Time closes the old thoughts, you have to be open to the new technology.
It's a journey isn't.
Informative video, but if your wiring looks like a banyan tree you have no worries? I would not be comfortable with those exposed AC wires
Hi Jeff I want to send you a piece of my work I'm self educated my English are very bad but they are very special
You can contact me via the www.pysystems.ca website