Over here in the UK we have 30 locos on order for ROG that are tri-mode. Each loco has battery, diesel AND OHLE electric capability! Seems like the perfect future-proof design for a Metra-style commuter network combined with a gradual OHLE roll out.
I think METRA did the smart thing by stabilizing their support transition costs by staying with the platform they are standardized on during the experiment. That translates to lower fares and potentially the same number of, or an increase in riders.
Thank you for this interesting news. It is fascinating that Metra cling to EMD diesels, and in many ways one cannot blame them, for their longevity and reliability is surely unmatched. Even in Europe, the EMD engines are very highly regarded for those reasons. Surely Metra’s real problem is cash. Anywhere else, such a large and prosperous City as Chicago would find the money to electrify all their main commuter routes. The idea of converting a wonderful for its day F40, to battery power is almost laughable. Interesting times ahead, and I guess Progress Rail, the owners of the EMD engines, will come up with a diesel solution before long !
Batteries need to be replaced every so often (every couple years?) of regular repeated use. It would probably be more cost effective in the long run to just do regular well established electrification rather than constantly replacing the main power source in old worn out locomotives.
@@someguy8427 11 years would be great, but man, those F40s will be old by then. A European solution, where electrification is added where possible and batteries take care of the rest, seems like the most sustainable solution to me.
@@Thom-TRA the F40s *are* old already lmao, the thing is that Metra can and should go for "True Electrification" but the main thing that is holding back True Electrification from happening is that the Metra Board itself is keeping that from happening. Literally the S.T.A.R line project under Metras report came to the conclusion that because of higher capital costs that EMUs would be inferior to DMUs and Loco hauled coaches. The board needs to go or nothing progressive will happen.
Or the convert the entire diesel fleet to dual mode incase of power shortages and/or power outages and a put Pantagraphs on the Battery Electric F40PHs
The Long Island Rail Road was interested in buying a battery powered train, but declined after problems with it. They converted two cars and run it on the Oyster Bay Branch.
What excites me about this is the prospect of hybrid operations like a huge Toyota Prius. If done right you can run the diesel at the average power draw and minimize throttling. Also, instead of dumping your dynamic brake electricity into a heat dump coil, you dump it into the battery and reuse that stored brake energy for re-acceleration. That's huge energy savings. What's also exciting about this is the prospect of a modular and easy way to make old locomotive architecture easily upgradeable to much more fuel efficient standards. I think this is going to be awesome.
I’m excited to have a never-been-done-before project like this here in Chicago! You sound like you know a lot more about the physics than I do, I appreciate the perspective!
As always another interesting video Thom. I don't understand why METRA doesn't 'bite the bullet' & electrify the tracks it owns and use Battery Powered locos for the ones it doesn't. I understand Amtrak is purchasing Battery Charges for some of its East Coast long-distance trains.
I wholeheartedly agree with you, it seems that that would be a much better investment to electrify some of the lines that they own or run very frequent service on. I’m excited for the new battery chargers Amtrak has ordered, they will have their battery pack / pantograph in the front most passenger cars! Wondering when the first artists renderings will appear.
@@Thom-TRA I understand that once Siemans has supplied Amtrak's MidWest locos & passenger cars (by 2023) it will be providing new locos (electric & battery powered) as well as coach/business cars for the North East Region & the Cascades (West Coast). I also understand that for the Hiawatha service they will be getting a push-pull cab at either end(?). Good to see Amtrak are modernising the entire railway fleet.
@@Thom-TRA And/or the convert the entire diesel fleet to dual mode incase of power shortages and/or power outages and a put Pantagraphs on the Battery Electric F40PHs
Given that they are going to the expense of developing this experiment and installing the infrastructure to support it, might it not make more sense to electrify the rest of their lines? given the reason for maintaining their EMD fleet is due to ease of maintenance and experience surely electrification is makes more sense when they already operate EMUs on an electrified line, plus unlike battery locos its tried and tested.
I 100% agree. I would see battery operation more as a last resort for sections that for some reason just can’t be electrified. But sadly I’m not the one making decisions.
@@Thom-TRA Or the convert the entire diesel fleet to dual mode incase of power shortages and/or power outages and a put Pantagraphs on the Battery Electric F40PHs
I don't get why Progress Rail doesn't come up with unit for Metra that they can sell to other lines that are Teir-4. When EMD was still under GM, they were innovators.
@@packr72 Fun Fact it flopped so hard that metrolink had temporarily bring back their F59s to while they were fixing the issues. It's a bit of a deja vu moment since metra had a similar situation in the 2000s with their MP36PH-3Ss which they had to bring back F40Cs 611 and 614 to service and the F40Cs also ran when Metra's F40PH-2s 100-149 were being Rebuilt from 2008 to 2012 then those F40Cs stayed in the Western Avenue yard for the rest of the 2010s also why did Metra retire their Highliner 1s they gotten some Ex-Amtrak AEM-7s and pair them up with the Highliner 1s EMUs
Personally, I think that Battery Electric F40PH's are a great idea. However, they shouldn't just operate out of LaSalle Street Station. Once they're able to convert more, the rest should run out of Union Station, because it's an underground station that has had pollution issues. Also, EMD/Progress Rail already has a Tier IV passenger locomotive currently for sale: the F125 "Spirit." Metra should consider that locomotive for a future purchase (once they have enough money) if they want to go Tier IV but want to stick with EMD's. Additionally, Metrolink in Los Angeles has been the only railroad to purchase them, and I think the "Spirits" deserve another customer. Lastly, Metra should consider using a cleaner burning fuel for their locomotives if they're unable to convert all of their F40's to battery electricity.
Ah, it never clicked in my head that those Spirits are built by the same manufacturer. Thanks for explaining! I wouldn’t mind them here in Chicago, but I would hope for a different cab design, I think the current one is kind of ugly…
@@Thom-TRA you're welcome! Even though they're built by EMD/Progress Rail, they don't use a 2-stroke engine unlike Metra's current loco's. Rather, they are powered by a 4-stroke, 20 cylinder Caterpillar C175 diesel engine. They also have AC traction motors and a high speed gearing of 100-125 mph. Since they're low-emissions locomotives with a 4,700 horsepower rating, they'd be the right diesel replacement for the legendary F40's. And yeah, I understand about the Cab design, but at least it's streamlined, allowing for the decrease in fuel consumption at track speed.
@@g-manonthego6678 Or the convert the entire diesel fleet to dual mode incase of power shortages and/or power outages and a put Pantagraphs on the Battery Electric F40PHs
Yes, you could. Diesel locomotives are actually diesel electric. That is, the diesel engine produces electricity which serves the electric motors connected to the wheels which move the train. You could easily replace the diesel engine with a pantograph, the current collector which draws power from an overhead wire. You'd have a lot of available space inside the locomotive body, too. Baggage service, anyone? As you can no doubt guess, the real expense and time is erecting those miles of overhead wire, all the way from Chicago to the end of each line over each track. Caltrain in the San Francisco area is doing that now. It's going fine, but it's a big job.
Because trains are only built to last a few decades. If you needed a new, reliable car to drive a ton of miles every day, would you convert an old 1980s car, or would you buy a new car? The F40s are going to have reliability issues in the near future. They’re just too old. So what’s gonna happen is this battery train is going to be unreliable, and people are going to reject the idea of using battery trains. It just seems like really terrible vision to convert three trains that will have to retire soon anyways instead of making bigger investments that will benefit more trains over a much longer time.
@@Thom-TRA " If you needed a new, reliable car to drive a ton of miles every day, would you convert an old 1980s car, or would you buy a new car?" It depends on my budget. If I only have $1000, and it buys me a 1980s rebuilt car instead of nothing, I would buy it.
@@onetwothreeabc and see what happens? In a few years your old car will break down and you will need to spend money again, meaning you will be spending more money in the long run buying cheaper, older things. The same is true with the F40s. They’re just not gonna last much longer. It’s irresponsible to run these in regular passenger service for decades to come. It’s an investment they’re going to have to make again soon. On a financial note, right now they’re paying a company with no experience converting diesel to battery to do something that no other company has ever done before. That’s going to be so much more expensive than ordering mass-produced equipment. Financially, this is long-term the dumbest option Metra had to make their fleet more environmentally-friendly.
@@Thom-TRA It really boils down to how much budget do they have and those long-term financial calculations. Maybe they don't have a long-term plan? Maybe they will use the battery train just for a couple of years before electrifying all of their lines (and make the battery trains obsolete)? I do agree with you the reason "we only want one type of engine" is not a particularly good one to make purchase decisions...
Or the convert the entire diesel fleet to dual mode incase of power shortages and/or power outages and a put Pantagraphs on the Battery Electric F40PHs
I don’t know if they are ready for Battery.. let’s push for a HyBrid locomotive first. I’m no expert.. but I would yank out the main engine and replace it with battery packs etc.. keep a upgraded Cat diesel for hotel power for train cars.. and the ability for it to charge the trains battery.
Or the convert the entire diesel fleet to dual mode incase of power shortages and/or power outages and a put Pantagraphs on the Battery Electric F40PHs and They could upgrade their F59s to Tier 3 and Convert their MP36PH-3Cs into MP40PH-3Cs to reach Tier 3 emissions.
This is why I hope to go vist Chicago after I try moveing out of Flint this year or next year. Anyway I don't think I haers old END terning electric why not the red Metra with flat noes or ExAntrak with paint noes
Metra is better off electrifying on the diesel territory or getting hydrogen trains. The LIRR & Alstom had 2 test on battery powered trains. LIRR tested a streetcar in 1900's or 1910's and the second was the Bombardier(Alstom) build M7 in both times battery powered trains wasn't same level as their diesel and electric counterparts.
Metra should just retire all their F40s (including the F40PHM units) and their hand-me down F59s, replace them all with new locomotives because all of them are over 30 years old now, the oldest being 45 years old (well surpassed their normal service life). The MP54AC would be the best candidate. These are newer Tier 4 locos, since they are the next model after the MP36PH units which were built by MPI, not EMD. If they kept their MP36 units and replaced all the F40s/F59s, Metra would be an all-MPI diesel fleet. Metra and MPI could also work together to design a new battery powered MPXpress locomotive, then Metra could order brand new battery-powered locomotives from MPI as well as rebuilt all their existing MP36s to battery powered locomotives as well. Streamlined nose cabs are better and more modern for American passenger trains in my opinion.
@@Thom-TRA I admit Im a bit over the top, but incompetence isn’t taken seriously enough. To be clear I’d also put most of the NY MTA’s past management with them.
Battery-powered commuter trains, really? What Metra needs to do is plainly electrify, period! Line by line by line. (Starting with 'mine', the BNSF, of course.) Preferably with third rail, it is more durable. Chicago Aurora & Elgin had third rail, and it worked fine for them. The big problem is, of course, money/cost. And the track layout might pose a problem for squeezing in third rail, so they might have to default to overhead cantenary. But it would still be electrification. Another problem was that the BNSF and other lines were built with only three tracks instead of four. Big mistake. Four would have allowed for greater traffic volume, with more expeditious and less-congested movement of it. Until Metra does something to electrify, it will remain the country's premier putt-putt-diesel version of the proverbial Toonerville Trolley.
I’d at least start with the Rock Island, Milwaukee West, Milwaukee North, and Southwest Service, since Metra owns or leases the tracks of those. I agree that this battery thing is a bandaid solution, and a bad one at that.
I weirdly imagine a Metra train with an Electric F40 (basically its 645 engine gutted from it) that runs from overhead power, with speeds as fast as the French TGVs. Then they take their Gallery cars and redesign their interiors (the shell stays the same), to no longer have that dropdown and to be MUCH more modern, along with better bogies for 198 mph operations. If Metra does do this, they could also extend the lines to reach much farther out and express trains would fly by. It all sounds silly, but can be done if the state and government fund it all.
There is no way they will run a battery powered locomotive by itself... How will they generate 480v to the coaches? This battery powered locomotive will never leave the yard... it will live out its career as a switch engine.
Yes, but the MP36 has an engine built by EMD, and that’s what the issue is about. The maintenance crews will only work on EMD engines (which includes the MP36 even if the locomotives themselves are built by a different company).
Idk, I can’t really support battery trains, there’s just no comparison to electrified catenary (or 3rd rail), it’s just by far the best system to power a train
Yeah I’m not thrilled either. If politics invested a fraction of highway money into railways then we could have better electrification. But instead we waste money on novelties like these.
Not any time this decade I’m afraid. Whoever said nothing can stand in the way of progress clearly hasn’t met the folks at Metra yet. There are people talking about building a Crossrail Chicago. I’m planning a video on that subject in the fall!
Europe and Asia have always been "forward thinking" with respect to electrification of both intracity and intercity operations. The US rail network (including most commuter railways) has been backward in it's thinking for decades. Therefore, as this video clearly demonstrates, they will always lag faaaarrrrrr behind because when it comes to efficient rail travel because they are content to remain in the "dark ages". Even railways in India could give a lot of American rail operations a run for their money.
@@chicago-l9125 yet India doesn't have indoor plumbing and their railway infrastructure is in a worse shape than the USA and their government has been run by Nazis
@@Thom-TRA Actually the Battery Locomotive deal with Progress Rail fell out so Metra cancelled the Battery Locomotive thing and Instead went for the BEMUs built either by Alstom or Stadler
All this talk about converting diesel locomotives to electric reminds me of the tongue-in-cheek suggestion for a San Francisco Electric Vehicle--an electric automobile with trolley bus poles on the roof. Do you think the Muni would mind if we borrowed a little of their electricity? 😉
I personally believe that Metra should consider battery mode for their next refurbishment of the F40 locomotive series. I’ve seen a lot of criticism saying that Metra should electrify their railroads instead, or buy Siemens Chargers/MP54ACs, however that wouldn’t be possible since most of the lines they rely on host freight railroads. It would make sense to eliminate the use of fossil fuels with the use of battery electric power. And even though its short ranged, its actually good for commuter rail IMO. The only question is however, would it be feasible in the long run for commuter railroads like Metra.
While I agree that anything is better than the current solution, I should remind you that Metra owns many of its lines (they own Rock Island, the two Milwaukee lines, and they lease the Southwest Service tracks). Freight trains can run under catenary, they do so in other parts of the US. Taking an old locomotive that is at the end of its useful life and adding batteries is better than the current pollution, but really, it's still a terrible idea, even if they don't own all their own tracks. It just seems lazy to me.
@@Thom-TRA thanks for reminding me on what lines Metra owns. And indeed freight can run under catenary, though one thing they cannot do if that was the case is the terribly high clearance of intermodal trains. And back to the topic at hand, I just wonder how it will play out.
@@commodoresbank I wonder too. I hope it’s successful, the last thing we want is for Metra to get scared and cancel any sort of hope for battery use in the future!
I wonder if they will just have a plug or if they will add a pantograph? Idk how long it will take to charge, my guess is it will be an overnight kind of deal. But yeah, overhead electrification seems like a better way to go for me.
Yes, except for one small detail: the engines inside the locomotive were built by EMD. And it’s the engines the crews work on and it’s the engines that don’t meet Tier 4 requirements. So in terms of prime movers (the actual diesel part of a locomotive), Metra only operates EMDs.
It is time to understand that diesel units in a commuter service is a insane service. The idea of battery commuter trains like those for Metra is a short-sighted idea. No european city has a diesel commuter service, all are electric, for us diesel is just a silly poluttant scenery. Even the Railroad Crossing inside a big city like Chicago, looks obsolete for us. Everyone knows that the ideal solution would be a powerfull electric overhead line, actually not less than 25 Kilovolts. Not the sheepish and slack idea of METRA.
Over here in the UK we have 30 locos on order for ROG that are tri-mode. Each loco has battery, diesel AND OHLE electric capability! Seems like the perfect future-proof design for a Metra-style commuter network combined with a gradual OHLE roll out.
I think METRA did the smart thing by stabilizing their support transition costs by staying with the platform they are standardized on during the experiment. That translates to lower fares and potentially the same number of, or an increase in riders.
Thank you for this interesting news. It is fascinating that Metra cling to EMD diesels, and in many ways one cannot blame them, for their longevity and reliability is surely unmatched. Even in Europe, the EMD engines are very highly regarded for those reasons. Surely Metra’s real problem is cash. Anywhere else, such a large and prosperous City as Chicago would find the money to electrify all their main commuter routes. The idea of converting a wonderful for its day F40, to battery power is almost laughable. Interesting times ahead, and I guess Progress Rail, the owners of the EMD engines, will come up with a diesel solution before long !
What about the EMD 1010 Prime mover which reaches Tier 4 emissions
That sounds very good to me !
@@maas1208 no
Batteries need to be replaced every so often (every couple years?) of regular repeated use. It would probably be more cost effective in the long run to just do regular well established electrification rather than constantly replacing the main power source in old worn out locomotives.
I wholeheartedly agree. Metra also owns a lot of their own tracks so it really shouldn’t be a problem to electrify.
Progress Rail estimates through a simulation that the batteries have a life span of 11 years. That is to be seen.
@@someguy8427 11 years would be great, but man, those F40s will be old by then. A European solution, where electrification is added where possible and batteries take care of the rest, seems like the most sustainable solution to me.
@@Thom-TRA the F40s *are* old already lmao, the thing is that Metra can and should go for "True Electrification" but the main thing that is holding back True Electrification from happening is that the Metra Board itself is keeping that from happening. Literally the S.T.A.R line project under Metras report came to the conclusion that because of higher capital costs that EMUs would be inferior to DMUs and Loco hauled coaches. The board needs to go or nothing progressive will happen.
@@someguy8427 yes they seem to be sitting on a bunch of progress. It has such a potential to be a great regional rail system…
That would be better if the pantographs would also be included for the converted diesel locomotives for Metra.
Or the convert the entire diesel fleet to dual mode incase of power shortages and/or power outages and a put Pantagraphs on the Battery Electric F40PHs
I love the look of those new battery electric trains! Green paint, not surprised.
The Long Island Rail Road was interested in buying a battery powered train, but declined after problems with it. They converted two cars and run it on the Oyster Bay Branch.
What excites me about this is the prospect of hybrid operations like a huge Toyota Prius. If done right you can run the diesel at the average power draw and minimize throttling. Also, instead of dumping your dynamic brake electricity into a heat dump coil, you dump it into the battery and reuse that stored brake energy for re-acceleration. That's huge energy savings. What's also exciting about this is the prospect of a modular and easy way to make old locomotive architecture easily upgradeable to much more fuel efficient standards. I think this is going to be awesome.
I’m excited to have a never-been-done-before project like this here in Chicago! You sound like you know a lot more about the physics than I do, I appreciate the perspective!
As always another interesting video Thom. I don't understand why METRA doesn't 'bite the bullet' & electrify the tracks it owns and use Battery Powered locos for the ones it doesn't. I understand Amtrak is purchasing Battery Charges for some of its East Coast long-distance trains.
I wholeheartedly agree with you, it seems that that would be a much better investment to electrify some of the lines that they own or run very frequent service on.
I’m excited for the new battery chargers Amtrak has ordered, they will have their battery pack / pantograph in the front most passenger cars! Wondering when the first artists renderings will appear.
@@Thom-TRA I understand that once Siemans has supplied Amtrak's MidWest locos & passenger cars (by 2023) it will be providing new locos (electric & battery powered) as well as coach/business cars for the North East Region & the Cascades (West Coast). I also understand that for the Hiawatha service they will be getting a push-pull cab at either end(?). Good to see Amtrak are modernising the entire railway fleet.
How about slapping a Pantagraph on every Diesel built Post 1975 and on every Hydrogen and Battery Electric Locomotives/MUs and call it a day
@@maas1208 I second that motion
@@Thom-TRA And/or the convert the entire diesel fleet to dual mode incase of power shortages and/or power outages and a put Pantagraphs on the Battery Electric F40PHs
Given that they are going to the expense of developing this experiment and installing the infrastructure to support it, might it not make more sense to electrify the rest of their lines? given the reason for maintaining their EMD fleet is due to ease of maintenance and experience surely electrification is makes more sense when they already operate EMUs on an electrified line, plus unlike battery locos its tried and tested.
I 100% agree. I would see battery operation more as a last resort for sections that for some reason just can’t be electrified. But sadly I’m not the one making decisions.
@@Thom-TRA Or the convert the entire diesel fleet to dual mode incase of power shortages and/or power outages and a put Pantagraphs on the Battery Electric F40PHs
I don't get why Progress Rail doesn't come up with unit for Metra that they can sell to other lines that are Teir-4. When EMD was still under GM, they were innovators.
It’s called the F125 and it flopped hard.
@@packr72 Fun Fact it flopped so hard that metrolink had temporarily bring back their F59s to while they were fixing the issues. It's a bit of a deja vu moment since metra had a similar situation in the 2000s with their MP36PH-3Ss which they had to bring back F40Cs 611 and 614 to service and the F40Cs also ran when Metra's F40PH-2s 100-149 were being Rebuilt from 2008 to 2012 then those F40Cs stayed in the Western Avenue yard for the rest of the 2010s also why did Metra retire their Highliner 1s they gotten some Ex-Amtrak AEM-7s and pair them up with the Highliner 1s EMUs
Personally, I think that Battery Electric F40PH's are a great idea. However, they shouldn't just operate out of LaSalle Street Station. Once they're able to convert more, the rest should run out of Union Station, because it's an underground station that has had pollution issues. Also, EMD/Progress Rail already has a Tier IV passenger locomotive currently for sale: the F125 "Spirit." Metra should consider that locomotive for a future purchase (once they have enough money) if they want to go Tier IV but want to stick with EMD's. Additionally, Metrolink in Los Angeles has been the only railroad to purchase them, and I think the "Spirits" deserve another customer. Lastly, Metra should consider using a cleaner burning fuel for their locomotives if they're unable to convert all of their F40's to battery electricity.
Ah, it never clicked in my head that those Spirits are built by the same manufacturer. Thanks for explaining! I wouldn’t mind them here in Chicago, but I would hope for a different cab design, I think the current one is kind of ugly…
@@Thom-TRA you're welcome! Even though they're built by EMD/Progress Rail, they don't use a 2-stroke engine unlike Metra's current loco's. Rather, they are powered by a 4-stroke, 20 cylinder Caterpillar C175 diesel engine. They also have AC traction motors and a high speed gearing of 100-125 mph. Since they're low-emissions locomotives with a 4,700 horsepower rating, they'd be the right diesel replacement for the legendary F40's. And yeah, I understand about the Cab design, but at least it's streamlined, allowing for the decrease in fuel consumption at track speed.
@@g-manonthego6678 Or the convert the entire diesel fleet to dual mode incase of power shortages and/or power outages and a put Pantagraphs on the Battery Electric F40PHs
@@maas1208 sounds great, but why would they convert their diesel locomotives to dual mode when the ALP45DP is currently for sale?
@@g-manonthego6678 probably because they can still use EMD components
That is going to be a good thing
I wonder if you could convert old diesel locomotives into full Electric locomotives
Yes, you could. Diesel locomotives are actually diesel electric. That is, the diesel engine produces electricity which serves the electric motors connected to the wheels which move the train. You could easily replace the diesel engine with a pantograph, the current collector which draws power from an overhead wire. You'd have a lot of available space inside the locomotive body, too. Baggage service, anyone?
As you can no doubt guess, the real expense and time is erecting those miles of overhead wire, all the way from Chicago to the end of each line over each track. Caltrain in the San Francisco area is doing that now. It's going fine, but it's a big job.
Why are you preferring buying something new versus converting something old?
Because trains are only built to last a few decades. If you needed a new, reliable car to drive a ton of miles every day, would you convert an old 1980s car, or would you buy a new car?
The F40s are going to have reliability issues in the near future. They’re just too old. So what’s gonna happen is this battery train is going to be unreliable, and people are going to reject the idea of using battery trains.
It just seems like really terrible vision to convert three trains that will have to retire soon anyways instead of making bigger investments that will benefit more trains over a much longer time.
@@Thom-TRA " If you needed a new, reliable car to drive a ton of miles every day, would you convert an old 1980s car, or would you buy a new car?"
It depends on my budget. If I only have $1000, and it buys me a 1980s rebuilt car instead of nothing, I would buy it.
@@onetwothreeabc and see what happens? In a few years your old car will break down and you will need to spend money again, meaning you will be spending more money in the long run buying cheaper, older things.
The same is true with the F40s. They’re just not gonna last much longer. It’s irresponsible to run these in regular passenger service for decades to come. It’s an investment they’re going to have to make again soon.
On a financial note, right now they’re paying a company with no experience converting diesel to battery to do something that no other company has ever done before. That’s going to be so much more expensive than ordering mass-produced equipment.
Financially, this is long-term the dumbest option Metra had to make their fleet more environmentally-friendly.
@@Thom-TRA It really boils down to how much budget do they have and those long-term financial calculations.
Maybe they don't have a long-term plan? Maybe they will use the battery train just for a couple of years before electrifying all of their lines (and make the battery trains obsolete)?
I do agree with you the reason "we only want one type of engine" is not a particularly good one to make purchase decisions...
Metra just announced that they are buying Stadler FLIRT BEMUs
Yep it’s exciting
Yeah
Yeah
Yeah
Just put up the wires!
This right here
Or the convert the entire diesel fleet to dual mode incase of power shortages and/or power outages and a put Pantagraphs on the Battery Electric F40PHs
I don’t know if they are ready for Battery.. let’s push for a HyBrid locomotive first. I’m no expert.. but I would yank out the main engine and replace it with battery packs etc.. keep a upgraded Cat diesel for hotel power for train cars.. and the ability for it to charge the trains battery.
Cute dog on your pfp!
@@Thom-TRA TY
Or the convert the entire diesel fleet to dual mode incase of power shortages and/or power outages and a put Pantagraphs on the Battery Electric F40PHs and They could upgrade their F59s to Tier 3 and Convert their MP36PH-3Cs into MP40PH-3Cs to reach Tier 3 emissions.
This is why I hope to go vist Chicago after I try moveing out of Flint this year or next year. Anyway I don't think I haers old END terning electric why not the red Metra with flat noes or ExAntrak with paint noes
The Badrey progect will not go fore and will be a epic fall
If only they would electrify the lines 😩
Amen to that
Metra is better off electrifying on the diesel territory or getting hydrogen trains. The LIRR & Alstom had 2 test on battery powered trains. LIRR tested a streetcar in 1900's or 1910's and the second was the Bombardier(Alstom) build M7 in both times battery powered trains wasn't same level as their diesel and electric counterparts.
Why don't they just convert to all electric with s catenary power supply ? The IC line and the South Shore line have been using this for generations.
My thoughts exactly. Metra even owns so many of their own lines!
OHLE electrification please
I agree
Metra should just retire all their F40s (including the F40PHM units) and their hand-me down F59s, replace them all with new locomotives because all of them are over 30 years old now, the oldest being 45 years old (well surpassed their normal service life). The MP54AC would be the best candidate. These are newer Tier 4 locos, since they are the next model after the MP36PH units which were built by MPI, not EMD. If they kept their MP36 units and replaced all the F40s/F59s, Metra would be an all-MPI diesel fleet. Metra and MPI could also work together to design a new battery powered MPXpress locomotive, then Metra could order brand new battery-powered locomotives from MPI as well as rebuilt all their existing MP36s to battery powered locomotives as well. Streamlined nose cabs are better and more modern for American passenger trains in my opinion.
The Workers would have to painfully relearn using non EMD Prime movers which cost a lot of time and money
Or convert their entire diesel fleet into dual mode locomotives
@@maas1208 they can’t keep using these locomotives forever. They will have to retire eventually
@@coleallen3895 They could upgrade their F59s to Tier 3 and Convert their MP36PH-3Cs into MP40PH-3Cs to reach Tier 3 emissions.
@@maas1208 they could rebuild the MP36PHs to MP54ACs in order to meet Tier 4 standards, which would be even better
Metra’s management should be charged for treason for gross incompetents.
Treason may be a charge that loses in court but I’m all for overhauling management and putting some fresh faces in there
@@Thom-TRA I admit Im a bit over the top, but incompetence isn’t taken seriously enough.
To be clear I’d also put most of the NY MTA’s past management with them.
Battery-powered commuter trains, really? What Metra needs to do is plainly electrify, period! Line by line by line. (Starting with 'mine', the BNSF, of course.) Preferably with third rail, it is more durable. Chicago Aurora & Elgin had third rail, and it worked fine for them. The big problem is, of course, money/cost. And the track layout might pose a problem for squeezing in third rail, so they might have to default to overhead cantenary. But it would still be electrification. Another problem was that the BNSF and other lines were built with only three tracks instead of four. Big mistake. Four would have allowed for greater traffic volume, with more expeditious and less-congested movement of it. Until Metra does something to electrify, it will remain the country's premier putt-putt-diesel version of the proverbial Toonerville Trolley.
I’d at least start with the Rock Island, Milwaukee West, Milwaukee North, and Southwest Service, since Metra owns or leases the tracks of those. I agree that this battery thing is a bandaid solution, and a bad one at that.
Hey Thom I heard that Metra awarded the BEMU contract to Stadler, I wonder how you feel about that?
You’ll find out on Saturday!
I weirdly imagine a Metra train with an Electric F40 (basically its 645 engine gutted from it) that runs from overhead power, with speeds as fast as the French TGVs. Then they take their Gallery cars and redesign their interiors (the shell stays the same), to no longer have that dropdown and to be MUCH more modern, along with better bogies for 198 mph operations.
If Metra does do this, they could also extend the lines to reach much farther out and express trains would fly by. It all sounds silly, but can be done if the state and government fund it all.
Search up the EMD GF-6C
Thank me later
@@MunSka Yeah someone already showed me this, dear God it looks good. I was thinking it would use the EXACT 1:1 body of an F40 though
Rebuilding EMDs to Tier 4 should be possible at 47th St or contractor.
There is no way they will run a battery powered locomotive by itself... How will they generate 480v to the coaches?
This battery powered locomotive will never leave the yard... it will live out its career as a switch engine.
The Metra MP36 was built by MPI, not EMD
Yes, but the MP36 has an engine built by EMD, and that’s what the issue is about. The maintenance crews will only work on EMD engines (which includes the MP36 even if the locomotives themselves are built by a different company).
@@Thom-TRA oh
@@Thom-TRA They could upgrade their F59s to Tier 3 and Convert their MP36PH-3Cs into MP40PH-3Cs to reach Tier 3 emissions.
Idk, I can’t really support battery trains, there’s just no comparison to electrified catenary (or 3rd rail), it’s just by far the best system to power a train
Yeah I’m not thrilled either. If politics invested a fraction of highway money into railways then we could have better electrification. But instead we waste money on novelties like these.
Fascinating Thom! Any chance of the rest of the lines being electrified?
Not any time this decade I’m afraid. Whoever said nothing can stand in the way of progress clearly hasn’t met the folks at Metra yet.
There are people talking about building a Crossrail Chicago. I’m planning a video on that subject in the fall!
@@Thom-TRA look forward to it 😀
Europe and Asia have always been "forward thinking" with respect to electrification of both intracity and intercity operations. The US rail network (including most commuter railways) has been backward in it's thinking for decades. Therefore, as this video clearly demonstrates, they will always lag faaaarrrrrr behind because when it comes to efficient rail travel because they are content to remain in the "dark ages". Even railways in India could give a lot of American rail operations a run for their money.
@@chicago-l9125 yet India doesn't have indoor plumbing and their railway infrastructure is in a worse shape than the USA and their government has been run by Nazis
Metra actually cancelled the Battery F40PH plan and instead ordered Battery Electric Multiple Units built by Alstom
They are doing both, they didn’t cancel the battery locomotives
@@Thom-TRA Actually the Battery Locomotive deal with Progress Rail fell out so Metra cancelled the Battery Locomotive thing and Instead went for the BEMUs built either by Alstom or Stadler
All this talk about converting diesel locomotives to electric reminds me of the tongue-in-cheek suggestion for a San Francisco Electric Vehicle--an electric automobile with trolley bus poles on the roof. Do you think the Muni would mind if we borrowed a little of their electricity? 😉
Actually, they’ve since scrapped this plan for battery electric multiple units!
@@Thom-TRA I think they're either being built by Alstom or Stadler
Can't wait to read your review of the new battery electric multiple units!🤗
congratulations for USA !
I personally believe that Metra should consider battery mode for their next refurbishment of the F40 locomotive series. I’ve seen a lot of criticism saying that Metra should electrify their railroads instead, or buy Siemens Chargers/MP54ACs, however that wouldn’t be possible since most of the lines they rely on host freight railroads. It would make sense to eliminate the use of fossil fuels with the use of battery electric power. And even though its short ranged, its actually good for commuter rail IMO. The only question is however, would it be feasible in the long run for commuter railroads like Metra.
While I agree that anything is better than the current solution, I should remind you that Metra owns many of its lines (they own Rock Island, the two Milwaukee lines, and they lease the Southwest Service tracks). Freight trains can run under catenary, they do so in other parts of the US.
Taking an old locomotive that is at the end of its useful life and adding batteries is better than the current pollution, but really, it's still a terrible idea, even if they don't own all their own tracks. It just seems lazy to me.
@@Thom-TRA thanks for reminding me on what lines Metra owns. And indeed freight can run under catenary, though one thing they cannot do if that was the case is the terribly high clearance of intermodal trains. And back to the topic at hand, I just wonder how it will play out.
@@commodoresbank I wonder too. I hope it’s successful, the last thing we want is for Metra to get scared and cancel any sort of hope for battery use in the future!
They could upgrade their F59s to Tier 3 and Convert their MP36PH-3Cs into MP40PH-3Cs to reach Tier 3 emissions.
@@Thom-TRAWhat about turning the old diesel locomotives into a full on Electric locomotives.
how long will it take to charge a battery that large ? another thing have you ever seen a lithium battery fire 😱
I wonder if they will just have a plug or if they will add a pantograph? Idk how long it will take to charge, my guess is it will be an overnight kind of deal. But yeah, overhead electrification seems like a better way to go for me.
@@Thom-TRA they should put a Pantagraph on those battery electric f40s
Metra locomotives 400-426 were NOT built by EMD.
Yes, except for one small detail: the engines inside the locomotive were built by EMD. And it’s the engines the crews work on and it’s the engines that don’t meet Tier 4 requirements. So in terms of prime movers (the actual diesel part of a locomotive), Metra only operates EMDs.
@@Thom-TRA They could upgrade their F59s to Tier 3 and Convert their MP36PH-3Cs into MP40PH-3Cs to reach Tier 3 emissions.
They should just go full electric, using pans and over head wire.
I wholeheartedly agree
Metra needs Siemens Chargers. End of story.
I might add a little epilogue to the end of your story and suggest proper electrification. It’s the 4th-busiest commuter rail in America!
*MP54ACs
MP54ACs and Siemens Charger SC-44s are the locomotives that Capitol Corridor will order to replace F59phis 2001-2015.
Metra does need Siemens Chargers.
@@marioscardina860 on their diesel routes, yes. I just wish they would electrify more lines.
It is time to understand that diesel units in a commuter service is a insane service. The idea of battery commuter trains like those for Metra is a short-sighted idea. No european city has a diesel commuter service, all are electric, for us diesel is just a silly poluttant scenery. Even the Railroad Crossing inside a big city like Chicago, looks obsolete for us. Everyone knows that the ideal solution would be a powerfull electric overhead line, actually not less than 25 Kilovolts. Not the sheepish and slack idea of METRA.
Or the convert the entire diesel fleet to dual mode incase of power shortages and/or power outages