I came to this video due to having had the same problem with categorising my own tracks. I have listened to your Voyager track and as soon as I heard it, I thought "Dark Ambient". Its intention may not be to be dark but a person searching for that (or space ambient) would likely discover what they are hoping to find and not immediately switch away from your video - which of course the algorithm wouldn't like. As I couldn't categorise my own music I decided to go with study music, as this is why I originally created it. Besides liking this music anyway, my work requires a lot of concentration and at the time I worked in a noisy distracting environment. I needed music without words and stumbled across the likes of Eno, Interstellar, and Wave Notation. I began creating an album of 5 minute tracks that could all be played on top of one another in any order to create a different sound/vibe. But I stopped because I had no way of knowing where it fit. Here's my first track which was originally listed as ambient/wave notation music. I'm now going down the "study" category just to get more people to hear my music - ruclips.net/video/6La9HoiPBXA/видео.html
Hi - Thank you for the Voyager comment Nice track and KKKs of views 👍 Yes, categorisation can be a problem, especially if your music spans genres or doesn't fit easily into one. Sometimes a little trial and error may be necessary.
@@IanWaugh thanks. The numbers were due to me testing a launch, however, it wasn't a great idea. I think the algorithm knows people's usual search patterns and links a video to that. If they don't normally view ambient music it won't work.
Genres are basically marketing terms that limit us in name of putting our work into convenient boxes for mass consumption. Ambient, in particular, has become an umbrella term for just about any long form music run through more reverb than god. Space music, as you say, is more defined by the iconography and song titles chosen than it is for any qualities of the music. Ultimately, there are two highly subjective categories of music: stuff you like and stuff you don’t. Everything else is just marketing.
Well, yes and no... While you may be right that categorization is a big part of marketing there is obvious utility in putting art into "boxes". According to a quick google search I just made, there's 100k of tunes uploaded every day on the internet. If we don't make some kind of a system how to sort this - which are genres, subgenres, styles etc. - that'd be a pretty big mess to find anything. I see where you coming from with your comment, but I don't see marketing as just bad,, how else should we get our music to people who would love to listen to it? Or how can somebody like me find another space/sci-fi oriented ambient for reading sci-fi books? :) We should't get entangled into names and boxes too much, but until we find a better way to solve this, I think we are stuck with names and boxes.
I came across a very interesting 2019 video from Alfo Media called "An introduction to Ambient Music". It is another philosophical discussion of the nature of ambient music. I like their definition, which was, "It's instrumental music emphasized on creating a mood, a feeling, a certain atmosphere." Also, they quoted Brian Eno: "Ambient music must be able to accommodate many levels of listening attention without enforcing one in particular; it must be as ignorable as it is interesting." This gives me a focus for the type of ambient music I would like to create. My inspiration is the type of classical music I like to listen to when working or studying. Slow tempo, no noticeable beat, and quiet dynamics, yet musically interesting.
Brian Eno invented it so we have to go with his definition 👍 However, it has been incorporated in most music genres these days - ambient techno anyone? 😊 - so although you can home in on your preferred type, it's not so easy to probide an over-riding definition. I have a friend who agrees that Ambient should have no drums
@@IanWaugh Yes. Brian Eno coined the term “Ambient”, but I seem to recall that he himself did not claim to have invented the musical form. He included under that umbrella some works of past composers, including Debussy and Satie. Satie liked the term “furniture music” for some of his stuff. I concur that ambient should have no drums or any strong rhythms, but many others would disagree. I stopped listening to Ólafur Arnalds and Nils Frahm because too many of their pieces devolve into frenetic and urgent tangles of complex sequencer rhythms that invariably derail my train of thought from its mental tracks.
@@IanWaugh Sure. Anyone can take a word, define it any way they want to, and turn it into a nonsense word from Alice in Wonderland. But it all comes down to how many people agree with that definition and therefore how useful the word is, for example in searching for something you’re interested in on RUclips or Spotify. The first video of yours that I watched was titled something like, “How to make Ambient Music“. This led to me watching many more of your videos because your usage of the word “ambient” matches somewhat with the type of music I aspire to make, and you have some very interesting things to say about it and other things, backed up by a lifetime of music experience.
@@NeuroPete Yes, if we agree on a word then it makes searching easier 👍 Also, music genres tend to evolve and cross-pollenate and many have added drone textures borrows from ambient so I guess it seems logical and easy to add the ambient epithet.
Very interesting discussion. Ambient is one label for some pieces of music I really enjoy, as well as many I strongly dislike. I first noticed the term applied to music only a few years ago. It is too big of an umbrella, but I can’t think of a better word for the type of music I would like to produce for myself. I guess I’ll have to coin my own term - “petric ambient” or something - then see if anyone likes the music I create under it.
Yes, it's very much an umbrella term and sort of needs another genre. I couldn't think of a suitable term for one of my pieces and someone suggested Gregorian Dreamscape 😊
Quasimodo - That name rings a bell 🤣 Hey John, yes indeed. I'm afraid I'm not very good at names or faces 😢 I know two students there who went on to work in the music industry so my time wasn't entirely wasted 😀 It was a terrible set-up with poor equipment as I remember so I packed it in after a couple of years although I did enjoy talking to the students. How did you do?
Been trying to find an ambient album I bought in hmv in the early 90,s along with stings album( fields of barley) so 92\93.Album was on cassette.Cover had an island sea scape picture I think and the music was just beautiful,uplifting and say ahead of any slow moody albums around at the time.The bbc used a bit for backing music for a program advert.For years I've scowered the internet but with no success.Any tips for finding this abum.
Hi - it doesn't ring a bell with me but knowing the name of the album or artist would help 😊 Most major labels released on vinyl/CD and also sometimes on cassette but some smaller labels released only on cassette so it might be one of them. Many will have closed but there may be a record of their releases somewhere. You might also see if there are any specialist forums. Best I can think of. Good luck 👍
Just found this video. I can’t tell you what genre this is exactly, it was called just ambient in the 1980s. So space ambient or ambient space?? What I does know (not that there’s a lot 😂) is that it could be off the album Space by The KLF/Orb. I’m so sorry Ian, that I keep comparing you to other similar sounding artists. Think we must both grew up listening the exactly the same type of music 😂😂. I think it’s part of what I want be as a musician, I want to sound like my hero’s. Is this wrong? 🤣🤣🤣🤣
I think the idea behind this was to query the number of sub-genres which still seem to fail to categoriuse some music 😱 Yes, I'm sure we listened to a lot of the same music 😊 I think Space Ambient for the Voyager piece is as close as we can get. I think most composers start out wanting to sound like their heros but if you have a lot in many diverse categories I think you may cross-polinate styles and even come up with something which is yours. It's a never-ending journey 😊
@@IanWaugh hit the nail on the head. Started my keyboard musical journey with just an iPad and usb keyboard end of last year. Found it quite amazing how much can be done nowadays on a tablet. So total newbie here, wanting to be like the music I heard in the 70s-80s as a kid 😂. Thanks for taking the time Ian 👍
@@TheSemtexCow No probs, nice to chat 😊 Yes, music tech has come a long way 😲 You can easily create pro music with just a computer and can probably do much on a tablet, too. Enjoy your music-making and have fun - that's the main thing 👍
I don't know much about the category of Ambient music, so my input regarding the question is pretty limited. I will say, I know it when I hear it. I think just labeling it Ambient music fits for this piece of music and visual art. If you start sub-categorizing it, you run the risk of limiting search and audience, while the term Ambient pretty much is like an umbrella that covers everything.
Thank you, Richard. It's a tricky thing and no mistake 😁 Some sub-genres of music are ridiculously tight - and ridiculous for that - but if there were no categories we'd all be listening to just "music" 🤣
@@IanWaugh You are so right about the just "music". One of my great pleasures of my young adulthood was scouring through the records at the local shop. Of course they had categories, but they were pretty much Pop, Rock, Metal, Jazz, Gospel and Classical. I would start at A and sort through Z, often finding golden gems of unknown artists, usually attracted by the artwork and/or song titles. Today there are so many sub genres it makes my head spin like an old Elvis 45.
@@richardhermans4457 Ha! Ha! Yes, I used to do that, too, Richard. Always swayed by the artwork! Sometimes the music was good, too but not as good as the sleeve whichj proves you can't judge a record by its cover😀 But music was more precious then. It's a background disposable commodity now. Imagine the days before recording when you - shock horror - had to be in the presence of musicians to listen to music! 😀
I came to this video due to having had the same problem with categorising my own tracks. I have listened to your Voyager track and as soon as I heard it, I thought "Dark Ambient". Its intention may not be to be dark but a person searching for that (or space ambient) would likely discover what they are hoping to find and not immediately switch away from your video - which of course the algorithm wouldn't like.
As I couldn't categorise my own music I decided to go with study music, as this is why I originally created it. Besides liking this music anyway, my work requires a lot of concentration and at the time I worked in a noisy distracting environment. I needed music without words and stumbled across the likes of Eno, Interstellar, and Wave Notation. I began creating an album of 5 minute tracks that could all be played on top of one another in any order to create a different sound/vibe. But I stopped because I had no way of knowing where it fit.
Here's my first track which was originally listed as ambient/wave notation music. I'm now going down the "study" category just to get more people to hear my music - ruclips.net/video/6La9HoiPBXA/видео.html
Hi - Thank you for the Voyager comment
Nice track and KKKs of views 👍 Yes, categorisation can be a problem, especially if your music spans genres or doesn't fit easily into one. Sometimes a little trial and error may be necessary.
@@IanWaugh thanks. The numbers were due to me testing a launch, however, it wasn't a great idea. I think the algorithm knows people's usual search patterns and links a video to that. If they don't normally view ambient music it won't work.
@@Dirty_Trippy Yes, I believe that's right for suggested videos but if people search for a genre it should appear there. Somewhere 😊
Genres are basically marketing terms that limit us in name of putting our work into convenient boxes for mass consumption. Ambient, in particular, has become an umbrella term for just about any long form music run through more reverb than god. Space music, as you say, is more defined by the iconography and song titles chosen than it is for any qualities of the music.
Ultimately, there are two highly subjective categories of music: stuff you like and stuff you don’t. Everything else is just marketing.
Ha! Ha! Yes, you're probably right but do you really want to put all those marketing execs out of a job? 😀
Well, yes and no... While you may be right that categorization is a big part of marketing there is obvious utility in putting art into "boxes". According to a quick google search I just made, there's 100k of tunes uploaded every day on the internet. If we don't make some kind of a system how to sort this - which are genres, subgenres, styles etc. - that'd be a pretty big mess to find anything. I see where you coming from with your comment, but I don't see marketing as just bad,, how else should we get our music to people who would love to listen to it? Or how can somebody like me find another space/sci-fi oriented ambient for reading sci-fi books? :)
We should't get entangled into names and boxes too much, but until we find a better way to solve this, I think we are stuck with names and boxes.
Makes me wonder, if there is something such as, ... ambient disco?? 😊
There's Ambient Everything 😄
I came across a very interesting 2019 video from Alfo Media called "An introduction to Ambient Music". It is another philosophical discussion of the nature of ambient music. I like their definition, which was, "It's instrumental music emphasized on creating a mood, a feeling, a certain atmosphere."
Also, they quoted Brian Eno: "Ambient music must be able to accommodate many levels of listening attention without enforcing one in particular; it must be as ignorable as it is interesting."
This gives me a focus for the type of ambient music I would like to create. My inspiration is the type of classical music I like to listen to when working or studying. Slow tempo, no noticeable beat, and quiet dynamics, yet musically interesting.
Brian Eno invented it so we have to go with his definition 👍
However, it has been incorporated in most music genres these days - ambient techno anyone? 😊 -
so although you can home in on your preferred type, it's not so easy to probide an over-riding definition.
I have a friend who agrees that Ambient should have no drums
@@IanWaugh Yes. Brian Eno coined the term “Ambient”, but I seem to recall that he himself did not claim to have invented the musical form. He included under that umbrella some works of past composers, including Debussy and Satie. Satie liked the term “furniture music” for some of his stuff.
I concur that ambient should have no drums or any strong rhythms, but many others would disagree. I stopped listening to Ólafur Arnalds and Nils Frahm because too many of their pieces devolve into frenetic and urgent tangles of complex sequencer rhythms that invariably derail my train of thought from its mental tracks.
@@NeuroPete I think it's a Lewis Carroll word and can mean exactly what you want it to mean 😄
@@IanWaugh Sure. Anyone can take a word, define it any way they want to, and turn it into a nonsense word from Alice in Wonderland. But it all comes down to how many people agree with that definition and therefore how useful the word is, for example in searching for something you’re interested in on RUclips or Spotify. The first video of yours that I watched was titled something like, “How to make Ambient Music“. This led to me watching many more of your videos because your usage of the word “ambient” matches somewhat with the type of music I aspire to make, and you have some very interesting things to say about it and other things, backed up by a lifetime of music experience.
@@NeuroPete Yes, if we agree on a word then it makes searching easier 👍
Also, music genres tend to evolve and cross-pollenate and many have added drone textures borrows from ambient so I guess it seems logical and easy to add the ambient epithet.
Very interesting discussion. Ambient is one label for some pieces of music I really enjoy, as well as many I strongly dislike. I first noticed the term applied to music only a few years ago. It is too big of an umbrella, but I can’t think of a better word for the type of music I would like to produce for myself. I guess I’ll have to coin my own term - “petric ambient” or something - then see if anyone likes the music I create under it.
Yes, it's very much an umbrella term and sort of needs another genre. I couldn't think of a suitable term for one of my pieces and someone suggested Gregorian Dreamscape 😊
Interesting topic. I’ll leave my reply on the next video! 😃
Thank you Matt 😁
Did you teach at Newcastle College between 1989 and 1991 when I was there ?
Ya name rings a bell 😉
Quasimodo - That name rings a bell 🤣 Hey John, yes indeed. I'm afraid I'm not very good at names or faces 😢 I know two students there who went on to work in the music industry so my time wasn't entirely wasted 😀 It was a terrible set-up with poor equipment as I remember so I packed it in after a couple of years although I did enjoy talking to the students. How did you do?
Been trying to find an ambient album I bought in hmv in the early 90,s along with stings album( fields of barley) so 92\93.Album was on cassette.Cover had an island sea scape picture I think and the music was just beautiful,uplifting and say ahead of any slow moody albums around at the time.The bbc used a bit for backing music for a program advert.For years I've scowered the internet but with no success.Any tips for finding this abum.
Hi - it doesn't ring a bell with me but knowing the name of the album or artist would help 😊
Most major labels released on vinyl/CD and also sometimes on cassette but some smaller labels released only on cassette so it might be one of them. Many will have closed but there may be a record of their releases somewhere. You might also see if there are any specialist forums. Best I can think of. Good luck 👍
Just found this video.
I can’t tell you what genre this is exactly, it was called just ambient in the 1980s.
So space ambient or ambient space??
What I does know (not that there’s a lot 😂) is that it could be off the album Space by The KLF/Orb.
I’m so sorry Ian, that I keep comparing you to other similar sounding artists.
Think we must both grew up listening the exactly the same type of music 😂😂.
I think it’s part of what I want be as a musician, I want to sound like my hero’s.
Is this wrong? 🤣🤣🤣🤣
I think the idea behind this was to query the number of sub-genres which still seem to fail to categoriuse some music 😱
Yes, I'm sure we listened to a lot of the same music 😊 I think Space Ambient for the Voyager piece is as close as we can get.
I think most composers start out wanting to sound like their heros but if you have a lot in many diverse categories I think you may cross-polinate styles and even come up with something which is yours. It's a never-ending journey 😊
@@IanWaugh hit the nail on the head. Started my keyboard musical journey with just an iPad and usb keyboard end of last year. Found it quite amazing how much can be done nowadays on a tablet. So total newbie here, wanting to be like the music I heard in the 70s-80s as a kid 😂.
Thanks for taking the time Ian 👍
@@TheSemtexCow No probs, nice to chat 😊 Yes, music tech has come a long way 😲 You can easily create pro music with just a computer and can probably do much on a tablet, too. Enjoy your music-making and have fun - that's the main thing 👍
I don't know much about the category of Ambient music, so my input regarding the question is pretty limited.
I will say, I know it when I hear it.
I think just labeling it Ambient music fits for this piece of music and visual art.
If you start sub-categorizing it, you run the risk of limiting search and audience, while the term Ambient pretty much is like an umbrella that covers everything.
Thank you, Richard. It's a tricky thing and no mistake 😁 Some sub-genres of music are ridiculously tight - and ridiculous for that - but if there were no categories we'd all be listening to just "music" 🤣
@@IanWaugh You are so right about the just "music".
One of my great pleasures of my young adulthood was scouring through the records at the local shop. Of course they had categories, but they were pretty much Pop, Rock, Metal, Jazz, Gospel and Classical.
I would start at A and sort through Z, often finding golden gems of unknown artists, usually attracted by the artwork and/or song titles.
Today there are so many sub genres it makes my head spin like an old Elvis 45.
@@richardhermans4457 Ha! Ha! Yes, I used to do that, too, Richard. Always swayed by the artwork! Sometimes the music was good, too but not as good as the sleeve whichj proves you can't judge a record by its cover😀 But music was more precious then. It's a background disposable commodity now. Imagine the days before recording when you - shock horror - had to be in the presence of musicians to listen to music! 😀