Wow, I made a huge mistake in this video. I just can make a third to correct it. That booklet, it turns out has a mix of series in it. A viewer sent me a description that made it clear that there are two different designs for the 10pf Quatrefoil watermarks, neither of which has an imprint. One is blue and the other is blue-green. I was so confused by that odd color, but now the blue-green makes sense. I had also misfiled my single 10pf quatrefoil stamp, which made me more comfortable (erroneously) that the 10pf I was seeing was the right color. But, ugh, huge double mistake. I’ve moved that 10pf from 331 to 477, the correct slot and confirmed that was the stamp in the booklet. With that information, I could now see that the booklet had stamps from a mix of series in it. The first pane is still correct: 6 copies of 330. The second pane is 6 copies of 447a (a perf variety). The third pane has 5 copies of 333, like I had shown, but one copy of 477 (not the a version). With this new information, the Scott catalog actually listed all three booklet panes. My apologies for doubting the Scott catalog.
That table is very useful! What a fun area to collect since there are so many varieties and a large pile of these is likely to yield examples of the various types. Thanks for sharing your approach to these!
What a journey! I enjoy every minute of your deep dives, Ken. It really can become complicated, especially if your decisions like type of watermark can not be sure and exact. I am still not getting any handle on these Germany stamps, like what sets you are working on. I guess I would get to know them if I started to work with them. You also changed my mind about CTOs, and particularly those with postally used versions as well. Thanks for the video!!!!!
One thing is for sure: during my childhood in the 1960s the DDR 5 Year Plan sets in cto. condition were typical stamp package fillers and extremely common, whereas postally used stamps were comparitively rare in Western Germany. After the German reunion, things totally changed. Anyways, it´s also interesting to collect covers from that series. Greets from GER, U.
Another very good video as always. I’ve stayed away from collecting countries that printed a lot of CTO’s until recently. I started an Austria collection a couple months ago.
Me too - Here's my rubric: If I want to collect the non-CTO version, and the stamp also comes in a CTO version, I'll collect both. If the stamp only comes in a CTO version (that is, it was never a real stamp to begin with) then I'll pass, and likely pass. I consider those abusive stamps. But, you know, people who like the pictures, like the pictures. Collect what you like, I say.
@@KensStampCollection very good suggestion. Is there a way you tell if the stamp only came as a CTO? Like it won’t be in the catalog if it only was produced as a CTO? Or does the catalog list CTO stamps as well?
@@christophersmeltser6564 It's a mixture. There are some series from the eastern block countries that are really only available as CTO. Postally used is very rare. Scott may list those because indeed they were postally available. But, if the stamp comes off the press with the CTO printed on, wouldn't you consider that a different design. I don't know. Then there are countries that put out stamps only for collectors. Ajman, Umm Al Qawain, etc.Sometimes the catalog lists them and sometimes not, or even puts a note about why they aren't listed. Then there are a ton of stamps produced post 1980-ish in island and African countries which while perhaps valid, were probably never used. These usually have designs that have nothing to do with the country. Finally, there are illegal stamps like from Somalia or Afghanistan during the wars. Printers put out stamps for these countries knowing that the country couldn't complain. Scott usually doesn't list these, but there are lots of them.
@@KensStampCollection thanks for the reply. I honestly did know that much about CTO?s. I really appreciate the information. And yes, if that stamp come off the press with the cancel already on it, it truly is a different design I guess.
Great video Ken! I recently have been working on developing a Germany Collection and have run into similar issues with identification. Your videos are so helpful. Any chance you can publish YOUR identification table for the 5 Year Plan? The one that Jay Carrigan provided is not easily transferable to a spreadsheet. You have already done the heavy lifting!! Keep up the good work.
Well, I usually put those things on blogger, but I haven't done that one. No matter though since blogger only takes those as pictures. Drop me an email and I'll send you the document you can crib from.
I suggest you get yourself a Michel Deutschland Spezial-Katalog. You may find everything Germany there. If you primarily collect classical issues, a second-hand copy should do the job just fine. I have never used Scott, but for Germany I am absolutely sure that Michel is superior.
WRT the stamps that you questioned whether they might be CTOs, AFAIK, the CTOs are always a near-perfect quarter circle on the corner. If it's got other design elements (like the wavy lines) or shows more of the cancel than a quarter of it, it's likely a genuine postal use.
Yeah, my thoughts exactly. And yet, the wavy line stamp has full--I mean 100%--perfect gum on the back, and the impression looks printed rather than stamped on; with that same faked fuzziness of the edges of the other CTO impressions. I can't explain it without calling it a CTO, but I'll do more research for sure. I gotta look in Michel.
Regarding the E overT, yes this is the first (and postally used only, printing) All subsequent printings (with E over A) have been issued both for postally use, but also for stamp collector use as CTO,s. Regarding the stamp booklet, if you look at the bottom of the inside of the frontpage you'll probably find this number: "LP2441 61" This specific booklet came in 2 issues, this number (with the add "denk an Jolanthe" and the number "LP 12863 59" (with the add BGW .." The latter is hard to find. Both issues comes with perforation that goes to the top of booklet, and perforation that doesn't. I also collect DDR and find their stamps quite interesting 😀. So thanks for your thoughts around this topic, not many dive into DDR. Btw I use Michel Deutschland spezial catalogue #2, it's on German, but very solid, couldn't collect DDR without it. 👍 Regards from 🇩🇰, Claus
I appreciate the way you say "I've convinced myself that this is an 'x' stamp or a 'y' watermark." It's often the best we can do. 🙂 I struggle with the CTO identification on the 20pf stamp, only because the wavy lines obscure the design. It's the same sharp, fine lines of a CTO stamp though. I guess if you find more with a similar pattern it would prove it. I'll have to take a look at my DDR holdings and see if I can find any. PS - What do you think of the actual stamp designs on this set? I really like them - very aspirational. I bet a Michel catalogue would make quick work of the booklet identification. But then you'd want all the booklets and to go two layers deeper in your specializations, and we'd never see another video from you. So I think you're fine as is. 😂
Yeah, I still have the question mark on it. And, I've poured over the world looking for other examples, either CTO or postally used. Nothing yet. I think I'm going to have to get a Michel catalog. It's been nice making video's for you all. As for the designs, I like them quite a bit, although, I have to acknowledge that they are pure propaganda. Let me know if you find any helpful examples in your collection.
@@KensStampCollection regarding propaganda. Yes! Exactly. Puts the series exactly in a place and a time. I've been thinking a lot lately about how one country's propaganda is another's 'patriotism'. The only difference is who controls the printing plates.
Hi Ken, I highly recomend you or other collector Morley Brigth water mark detector, the main point is friendly use, simple design and not expensive, ( your method the water mark fluid I don't know it is safe for stamp print or the postmark, back gum and when the wet stamp to me they are very fragile 🙄) I used it since mid 90's but today the blue liquid try 😵💫, I am looking for the refiller hope you can find or I DIY myself the blue liquid😚 Trust me🤪
Great tip. Apparently these things were popular a while back but they aren’t made anymore. I guess they have a gel pack that leaks and needs replacing but you can’t get them any more. Some forums have tried to make homemade replacements
![I.N "HALLUCINATION" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/n5B5q1Hwt_U/mqdefault.jpg)
Wow, I made a huge mistake in this video. I just can make a third to correct it.
That booklet, it turns out has a mix of series in it. A viewer sent me a description that made it clear that there are two different designs for the 10pf Quatrefoil watermarks, neither of which has an imprint. One is blue and the other is blue-green. I was so confused by that odd color, but now the blue-green makes sense. I had also misfiled my single 10pf quatrefoil stamp, which made me more comfortable (erroneously) that the 10pf I was seeing was the right color. But, ugh, huge double mistake.
I’ve moved that 10pf from 331 to 477, the correct slot and confirmed that was the stamp in the booklet. With that information, I could now see that the booklet had stamps from a mix of series in it. The first pane is still correct: 6 copies of 330. The second pane is 6 copies of 447a (a perf variety). The third pane has 5 copies of 333, like I had shown, but one copy of 477 (not the a version). With this new information, the Scott catalog actually listed all three booklet panes. My apologies for doubting the Scott catalog.
Thank you for your detailed description as usual. I have to return to my collections and re-identify all my German stamps:)
Those stamps are a challenge to get right. The seem so simple, too.
That table is very useful! What a fun area to collect since there are so many varieties and a large pile of these is likely to yield examples of the various types. Thanks for sharing your approach to these!
Glad you found it useful!
I really enjoyed this video about one of my favorite group of stamps to work with - subbed.
Welcome to the channel!
What a journey! I enjoy every minute of your deep dives, Ken. It really can become complicated, especially if your decisions like type of watermark can not be sure and exact. I am still not getting any handle on these Germany stamps, like what sets you are working on. I guess I would get to know them if I started to work with them. You also changed my mind about CTOs, and particularly those with postally used versions as well. Thanks for the video!!!!!
Always fun to do. Start simple. The details can wait.
I LOVE details, and I always want to be as complete and as perfect as possible. I guess I am going to have a hard time! 😟@@KensStampCollection
@@GreatStampAdventure literal LOL
@@KensStampCollection 😆 Probably the best solution: laugh at myself and the hardship, because perfect it will not be. 😆🙂
One thing is for sure: during my childhood in the 1960s the DDR 5 Year Plan sets in cto. condition were typical stamp package fillers and extremely common, whereas postally used stamps were comparitively rare in Western Germany. After the German reunion, things totally changed. Anyways, it´s also interesting to collect covers from that series. Greets from GER, U.
Great to get a firsthand account
Another very good video as always. I’ve stayed away from collecting countries that printed a lot of CTO’s until recently. I started an Austria collection a couple months ago.
Me too - Here's my rubric: If I want to collect the non-CTO version, and the stamp also comes in a CTO version, I'll collect both. If the stamp only comes in a CTO version (that is, it was never a real stamp to begin with) then I'll pass, and likely pass. I consider those abusive stamps. But, you know, people who like the pictures, like the pictures. Collect what you like, I say.
@@KensStampCollection very good suggestion. Is there a way you tell if the stamp only came as a CTO? Like it won’t be in the catalog if it only was produced as a CTO? Or does the catalog list CTO stamps as well?
@@christophersmeltser6564 It's a mixture. There are some series from the eastern block countries that are really only available as CTO. Postally used is very rare. Scott may list those because indeed they were postally available. But, if the stamp comes off the press with the CTO printed on, wouldn't you consider that a different design. I don't know. Then there are countries that put out stamps only for collectors. Ajman, Umm Al Qawain, etc.Sometimes the catalog lists them and sometimes not, or even puts a note about why they aren't listed. Then there are a ton of stamps produced post 1980-ish in island and African countries which while perhaps valid, were probably never used. These usually have designs that have nothing to do with the country. Finally, there are illegal stamps like from Somalia or Afghanistan during the wars. Printers put out stamps for these countries knowing that the country couldn't complain. Scott usually doesn't list these, but there are lots of them.
@@KensStampCollection thanks for the reply. I honestly did know that much about CTO?s. I really appreciate the information. And yes, if that stamp come off the press with the cancel already on it, it truly is a different design I guess.
Great video Ken! I recently have been working on developing a Germany Collection and have run into similar issues with identification. Your videos are so helpful. Any chance you can publish YOUR identification table for the 5 Year Plan? The one that Jay Carrigan provided is not easily transferable to a spreadsheet. You have already done the heavy lifting!! Keep up the good work.
Well, I usually put those things on blogger, but I haven't done that one. No matter though since blogger only takes those as pictures. Drop me an email and I'll send you the document you can crib from.
Another great video and another pain in the a** set of stamps to figer out.
It’s what I love about collecting
I suggest you get yourself a Michel Deutschland Spezial-Katalog. You may find everything Germany there. If you primarily collect classical issues, a second-hand copy should do the job just fine. I have never used Scott, but for Germany I am absolutely sure that Michel is superior.
A wise suggestion
WRT the stamps that you questioned whether they might be CTOs, AFAIK, the CTOs are always a near-perfect quarter circle on the corner. If it's got other design elements (like the wavy lines) or shows more of the cancel than a quarter of it, it's likely a genuine postal use.
Yeah, my thoughts exactly. And yet, the wavy line stamp has full--I mean 100%--perfect gum on the back, and the impression looks printed rather than stamped on; with that same faked fuzziness of the edges of the other CTO impressions. I can't explain it without calling it a CTO, but I'll do more research for sure. I gotta look in Michel.
Regarding the E overT, yes this is the first (and postally used only, printing) All subsequent printings (with E over A) have been issued both for postally use, but also for stamp collector use as CTO,s. Regarding the stamp booklet, if you look at the bottom of the inside of the frontpage you'll probably find this number:
"LP2441 61" This specific booklet came in 2 issues, this number (with the add "denk an Jolanthe" and the number "LP 12863 59" (with the add BGW .." The latter is hard to find.
Both issues comes with perforation that goes to the top of booklet, and perforation that doesn't.
I also collect DDR and find their stamps quite interesting 😀. So thanks for your thoughts around this topic, not many dive into DDR. Btw I use Michel Deutschland spezial catalogue #2, it's on German, but very solid, couldn't collect DDR without it. 👍 Regards from 🇩🇰, Claus
@@androliving5671 Thanks for the encouragement and the details on that little booklet. I'll have a look.
I appreciate the way you say "I've convinced myself that this is an 'x' stamp or a 'y' watermark." It's often the best we can do. 🙂
I struggle with the CTO identification on the 20pf stamp, only because the wavy lines obscure the design. It's the same sharp, fine lines of a CTO stamp though. I guess if you find more with a similar pattern it would prove it. I'll have to take a look at my DDR holdings and see if I can find any. PS - What do you think of the actual stamp designs on this set? I really like them - very aspirational.
I bet a Michel catalogue would make quick work of the booklet identification. But then you'd want all the booklets and to go two layers deeper in your specializations, and we'd never see another video from you. So I think you're fine as is. 😂
Yeah, I still have the question mark on it. And, I've poured over the world looking for other examples, either CTO or postally used. Nothing yet. I think I'm going to have to get a Michel catalog. It's been nice making video's for you all.
As for the designs, I like them quite a bit, although, I have to acknowledge that they are pure propaganda.
Let me know if you find any helpful examples in your collection.
@@KensStampCollection regarding propaganda. Yes! Exactly. Puts the series exactly in a place and a time. I've been thinking a lot lately about how one country's propaganda is another's 'patriotism'. The only difference is who controls the printing plates.
Great vid
Thank you
Hi Ken, I highly recomend you or other collector Morley Brigth water mark detector, the main point is friendly use, simple design and not expensive, ( your method the water mark fluid I don't know it is safe for stamp print or the postmark, back gum and when the wet stamp to me they are very fragile 🙄) I used it since mid 90's but today the blue liquid try 😵💫, I am looking for the refiller hope you can find or I DIY myself the blue liquid😚 Trust me🤪
Great tip. Apparently these things were popular a while back but they aren’t made anymore. I guess they have a gel pack that leaks and needs replacing but you can’t get them any more. Some forums have tried to make homemade replacements
@@KensStampCollection Thanks your reply Ken 😝