I personally like Secret Hitler more. I love games where you have to lie in order to win and not logically because it adds another dynamic to the game and having abilities as the fascist policies get enacted, which could go either way since you can kill Hitler or all the fascists.
As someone who has played 100+ games of Avalon-I promise you would lose to my team every time. There is no way of logically deducing players in Avalon; the same as in Secret Hitler. But in my opinion, the randomness of Policy draws in SH make it too random to determine anything. In Avalon, if there is a fail card, then you _know_ someone is lying. It’s then a matter of trying to detect the liar among 3-5 players. In SH if there’s a fascist policy played, you have 0% knowledge of whether it was an intentional play or not. Because it could have been random draw-you literally know nothing. The other problem is that 7+ player Secret Hitler games often have half the table sitting and watching the other players debate. Because only two people ever play at a time, the best strategy is to keep passing the chancellor seat around the same 3-4 players in order to keep the liberal policies going. Most of the time we’ve played SH people get up and get drinks, grab more food, or some even pull out there phones and answer texts real quick; that’s a sign people aren’t really involved in the game. You never have that with Avalon, because in every game of Avalon there is a choke point where the Arthurians will need to have all, or all but one, of their team go on a quest to succeed. So every single player is needed. Every round at least half the table is going on a quest, as opposed to only two people in Secret Hitler.
I think Secret Hitler is the best social deduction game, and the best party board game. Avalon is also a great game, bit it feels too short to me. Secret Hitler is longer and more complex version of avalon, while being equally easy to learn. I play both games however, depending on number of people that want to play. Secret Hitler needs 9-10 players for full experience (wouldn't play below 8), while avalon works just fine with 6+ players.
I agree with your conclusions for a slightly different reason. My biggest gripe with Secret Hitler (other than the theme, which I think is a lot less likely to engender the type of sober political statement you imply and a lot more likely to lead to groan-inducing Cards Against Humanity-style troll humor), is that the game is constructed in such a way that, with a larger number of players, it isn't just common, but optimal to ignore some players at the table. President and Chancellor will often be traded off between only a fraction of the players at the table. Whereas, with Avalon - unless you have a relatively quick win by one side or the other - as a vanilla good guy you will have to figure out who pretty much every other good guy is in order to win. Teams are larger and it's a more inclusive game as a result. Also, Secret Hitler has player elimination and not having player elimination is - in my opinion - probably the single best improvement One Night/Resistance/Avalon made over traditional Mafia/Werewolf.
Thanks for the detailed thoughts! Really interesting. I hadn't thought of your point about the player involvement. I don't mind the player elimination though, but only because it happens late in the game so there's not long to sit out if you do get shot, unlike Mafia/Werewolf where you can be out for the entire game.
I have not been a fan of the Resistance : a bit easy to solve, no element of gameplay and the fact that if you play with the assassin the whole game is pointless because the final outcome is totally dictated by his choice. I will have to try Secret Hitler.
You have to read people no matter what...no secret identity game will ever give you "perfect information." At the end of the day you have to use psychology, body language, etc. to figure it out.
These type of games aren't my favourite, but I have played The Resistance and quite enjoyed it. It was better than Coup. But I quite like Masquerade as a secret identity game and Sheriff of Nottingham as a bluffing type game is really good.
I have played well we over 100 games of Avalon and about 30 games of Secret Hitler. As someone who hosts large board game cookouts, I have to say Avalon is the superior game for larger groups. The problem with Secret Hitler in big groups is that half the table have to sit and watch the other half of the table play. When the game is close, which most are, it makes no strategic sense to start electing the other half of the table that hasn’t played yet. If you’re a liberal, your best bet is to veto any government that doesn’t include the first half that have already played. Not to mention one player is literally eliminated at the 75%-80% mark; so for at least 15 minutes, one player isn’t allowed to speak or participate in the game. Thats the poor design of Secret Hitler; it’s a 5-10 player game-but only 2 people are ever playing at a time. With Avalon, most quests have 3-5 players on them, so every round at least half of the table is actively playing. And because all, or all but one, of the good guys have to go on a quest at the choke point-that means that every single player at the table is involved in every single game. The other thing that’s wonderful about Avalon, is that it’s a flexible game. Let’s say the group you’re playing with struggles to get the Arthurian’s to win. You can add Percival, you can remove Morgana, you can play with the Lady of the Lake card (which allows Knights to gain information) etc. And vice versa; if bad guys are having a hard time winning, you can add Mordred, remove Percival, etc. As far as game design goes, I also think Avalon is superior because it has less randomness. The chances of a good guy in Secret Hitler drawing 3 Fascist Policies are high. To some, that seems fun because it means games are diverse. But to me, it takes away the point in hidden-identity games: using psychology to detect your friends lying. In Avalon, if there is a fail card, you _know_ someone is lying. So it’s a matter of determining which of the 3-5 people are lying-and that’s the fun! In Secret Hitler, if there’s a fascist policy played-you really have no idea if _anyone_ is actually lying. And because there are twice the number of fascist policies as there are liberal-you really have no confidence in any fascist policy played.
I love The Resistance! I've probably played it over 100 times. I really want to try Secret Hitler. One of these days I'll have played both games you compare...
Hey guys! OMG! You guys got me worried when you deleted your original video. Got me thinking that me pointing the fake out is going to make you guys reshoot the whole thing all over again (and delay the releases of your subsequent videos). Glad you figured out a workaround it! Don't worry tho, going by Reddit and the BBG group in Facebook, it seem like a common occurrence for people to get the fake and thinking it's an original compounded by the fact that the original is pretty hard to get a hand on. Can't wait for the next video! A worker placement battle next perhaps?
Personally I prefer the 'logical deduction' of Avalon, but maybe that's because I'm terrible at reading people's faces. I also have to say that Robin looks, if anything, younger than he did ten years ago. I can only assume this involved some sort of pagan ASNAC ritual.
He didn't enact any. But he has been subjected to persecution in the courts, assignation attempts, and efforts to remove him from the ballot. All indicators of fascism.
I personally like Secret Hitler more. I love games where you have to lie in order to win and not logically because it adds another dynamic to the game and having abilities as the fascist policies get enacted, which could go either way since you can kill Hitler or all the fascists.
I prefer Secret Hitler because of the randomness created by drawing the policy cards. I find Resistance to easy to solve.
As someone who has played 100+ games of Avalon-I promise you would lose to my team every time. There is no way of logically deducing players in Avalon; the same as in Secret Hitler.
But in my opinion, the randomness of Policy draws in SH make it too random to determine anything.
In Avalon, if there is a fail card, then you _know_ someone is lying. It’s then a matter of trying to detect the liar among 3-5 players.
In SH if there’s a fascist policy played, you have 0% knowledge of whether it was an intentional play or not. Because it could have been random draw-you literally know nothing.
The other problem is that 7+ player Secret Hitler games often have half the table sitting and watching the other players debate. Because only two people ever play at a time, the best strategy is to keep passing the chancellor seat around the same 3-4 players in order to keep the liberal policies going.
Most of the time we’ve played SH people get up and get drinks, grab more food, or some even pull out there phones and answer texts real quick; that’s a sign people aren’t really involved in the game.
You never have that with Avalon, because in every game of Avalon there is a choke point where the Arthurians will need to have all, or all but one, of their team go on a quest to succeed. So every single player is needed. Every round at least half the table is going on a quest, as opposed to only two people in Secret Hitler.
I prefer one night ultimate warewolf
I think Secret Hitler is the best social deduction game, and the best party board game. Avalon is also a great game, bit it feels too short to me. Secret Hitler is longer and more complex version of avalon, while being equally easy to learn. I play both games however, depending on number of people that want to play. Secret Hitler needs 9-10 players for full experience (wouldn't play below 8), while avalon works just fine with 6+ players.
I agree with your conclusions for a slightly different reason.
My biggest gripe with Secret Hitler (other than the theme, which I think is a lot less likely to engender the type of sober political statement you imply and a lot more likely to lead to groan-inducing Cards Against Humanity-style troll humor), is that the game is constructed in such a way that, with a larger number of players, it isn't just common, but optimal to ignore some players at the table. President and Chancellor will often be traded off between only a fraction of the players at the table.
Whereas, with Avalon - unless you have a relatively quick win by one side or the other - as a vanilla good guy you will have to figure out who pretty much every other good guy is in order to win. Teams are larger and it's a more inclusive game as a result. Also, Secret Hitler has player elimination and not having player elimination is - in my opinion - probably the single best improvement One Night/Resistance/Avalon made over traditional Mafia/Werewolf.
Thanks for the detailed thoughts! Really interesting. I hadn't thought of your point about the player involvement. I don't mind the player elimination though, but only because it happens late in the game so there's not long to sit out if you do get shot, unlike Mafia/Werewolf where you can be out for the entire game.
They had no idea what was going to happen 6 years later
I have not been a fan of the Resistance : a bit easy to solve, no element of gameplay and the fact that if you play with the assassin the whole game is pointless because the final outcome is totally dictated by his choice.
I will have to try Secret Hitler.
My problem with the Resistance is that it's way too short. Only 5 quests is not nearly enough to deduct who's who...
You have to read people no matter what...no secret identity game will ever give you "perfect information." At the end of the day you have to use psychology, body language, etc. to figure it out.
These type of games aren't my favourite, but I have played The Resistance and quite enjoyed it. It was better than Coup. But I quite like Masquerade as a secret identity game and Sheriff of Nottingham as a bluffing type game is really good.
Glad I found your channel. Thanks for the great content.
Welcome! Very glad you're enjoying it!
I have played well we over 100 games of Avalon and about 30 games of Secret Hitler. As someone who hosts large board game cookouts, I have to say Avalon is the superior game for larger groups.
The problem with Secret Hitler in big groups is that half the table have to sit and watch the other half of the table play. When the game is close, which most are, it makes no strategic sense to start electing the other half of the table that hasn’t played yet. If you’re a liberal, your best bet is to veto any government that doesn’t include the first half that have already played. Not to mention one player is literally eliminated at the 75%-80% mark; so for at least 15 minutes, one player isn’t allowed to speak or participate in the game. Thats the poor design of Secret Hitler; it’s a 5-10 player game-but only 2 people are ever playing at a time.
With Avalon, most quests have 3-5 players on them, so every round at least half of the table is actively playing. And because all, or all but one, of the good guys have to go on a quest at the choke point-that means that every single player at the table is involved in every single game.
The other thing that’s wonderful about Avalon, is that it’s a flexible game. Let’s say the group you’re playing with struggles to get the Arthurian’s to win. You can add Percival, you can remove Morgana, you can play with the Lady of the Lake card (which allows Knights to gain information) etc.
And vice versa; if bad guys are having a hard time winning, you can add Mordred, remove Percival, etc.
As far as game design goes, I also think Avalon is superior because it has less randomness. The chances of a good guy in Secret Hitler drawing 3 Fascist Policies are high.
To some, that seems fun because it means games are diverse. But to me, it takes away the point in hidden-identity games: using psychology to detect your friends lying.
In Avalon, if there is a fail card, you _know_ someone is lying. So it’s a matter of determining which of the 3-5 people are lying-and that’s the fun!
In Secret Hitler, if there’s a fascist policy played-you really have no idea if _anyone_ is actually lying. And because there are twice the number of fascist policies as there are liberal-you really have no confidence in any fascist policy played.
OrangeManBad at the end felt like it always does
I love The Resistance! I've probably played it over 100 times. I really want to try Secret Hitler. One of these days I'll have played both games you compare...
Behind the Box you can play online for free at secrethitler.io
micah james oh cool. I've also been considering doing a pnp for secret voldemort
Hey guys!
OMG! You guys got me worried when you deleted your original video. Got me thinking that me pointing the fake out is going to make you guys reshoot the whole thing all over again (and delay the releases of your subsequent videos). Glad you figured out a workaround it!
Don't worry tho, going by Reddit and the BBG group in Facebook, it seem like a common occurrence for people to get the fake and thinking it's an original compounded by the fact that the original is pretty hard to get a hand on.
Can't wait for the next video! A worker placement battle next perhaps?
Thanks Wan! The worker placement battle is saved for Episode 6 :p
Creaking Shelves looking forward to all of your videos. Great work guys! 👍🏼
Wow. Another video already. :)
We're posting weekly until the end of the first season :p
Great video
The BoardGame Renegade thanks! :D
I thought Hitler know about the 2nd facist in a 5-6 players game
This Is true, little mistake of them
Personally I prefer the 'logical deduction' of Avalon, but maybe that's because I'm terrible at reading people's faces.
I also have to say that Robin looks, if anything, younger than he did ten years ago. I can only assume this involved some sort of pagan ASNAC ritual.
I was wondering if either of you could list the facist policies that Trump has enacted as president?
He didn't enact any. But he has been subjected to persecution in the courts, assignation attempts, and efforts to remove him from the ballot. All indicators of fascism.
Well done boys, you compared Trump to Hitler. Give yourselves a pat on the back for stunningness and bravery.