Indiana Jones has a high level of mystique and fantasy. Its based on a fan favorite franchise that features a much more “fictional” setting. This gives the impression that there are strange paranormal forces at hand along with an odd sense of unpredictable surprise as you visually witness the various practical effects and experience the dozens of lines of dialogue spoken by Mara and Indy. then the actual setting itself exposes the rider to a cornucopia of different themes as they travel through the temple and are charmed by Indiana Jones many appearances, including reference to one of the most famous scenes in all of movie-dom (the falling rock scene). Dinosaur features time travel, however aside from that, it’s much less fantastically themed (in that it’s based on real life and actual science. Unlike Indiana jones which is based in fiction and mystique) , we all know dinosaurs existed and we’ve seen them at other attractions like universals Jurassic park, and even your own standard run of the mill museums, which will sometimes feature life sized Dino’s and skeletons/somewhat immersive experiences like imax. The comparison isn’t really fair because Indiana Jones is such a compelling setting to set a ride/attraction in, ESPECIALLY for a dark ride that takes its time vs something like a rollercoaster. Dinosaurs aren’t particularly special, and although the DINOSAUR ride is one of my all time favorites, it’s reliance on aging dinosaur animatronics is certainly notable to anyone older than 12. Meanwhile Indiana Jones is much more of a timeless experience because of its varied setting/theming, reliance on visual AND physical effects (like the gusts of wind and hot fire), and it’s distinct lack of animatronics save for the excellent and briefly featured snake room and the charming exposures to Indiana Jones. I’m more willing to forgive his animatronic shortcomings because they come with dialogue and signature momentum (closing the door and scolding us, barely escaping the boulder, witty remark as we barely survived) Definitely a bold stance for this video and I commend the points you made/laughed at your dejection of anecdotal “my kid thought it was too scary” criticisms. Again I find myself not completely agreeing with you and yet I enjoyed the video and found it to be thought provoking! (Written on my phone please forgive the grammar mistakes)
You have a good argument with all solid points here. I slightly disagree that previous exposure to dinosaurs detracts from their impact in the ride, but I at least see how someone could view it that way. I felt that your argument was compelling enough, that I'm going to pin it in the comments for a bit.
@@PoseidonEntertainment thanks for taking the time to read this! Always nice to see a RUclipsr who reads the comments, especially one with as many subs as you!
You know what's fun about the Indy boulder scene? It's actually taken from Scrooge McDuck comics, the 1954 story "The Seven Cities of Cibola" to be precise. Look it up.
To me, your criticism seems to be based largely on personal preference -- essentially boiling down to "I like Indy more than I like dinos." I, personally, see the attractions as pretty much equal; each with its own strengths and weaknesses, but prefer dinosaur simply bc I grew up with it and the Indiana Jones IP doesn't have much sentimental value to me. With that in mind, I do agree with much of what you said. However, while its been a good 5ish years since I've been to Animal Kingdom, I feel that the dino animatronics have been aging pretty gracefully; thanks in part to the setting of the ride. These indoor dinos shrouded in darkness and fog have certainly faired much better than their broad-daylight counterparts in the river adventure at IoA.
Do you not like animatronics? Frankly, I don’t like many rides that don’t have them. I couldn’t care less if they don’t look realistic, they are so different to anything else you see in real life, the ones on Dinosaur are wondrous. I also don’t see what’s so different about the settings. Time travel and dinosaurs ARE fantasy for people in 2023, more so than Indiana Jones, who is a human.
I always hoped disney would knock down the rest of this land and keep dinosaur as a launch point to “the past”, and take guests to the age of the dinosaurs in an extremely immersive land. By making the worlds best dinosaur themed land , animal kingdom will really be cemented as one of the worlds best parks
The only reason that will never happen is because of Jurassic Park over at IOA which is less the an hour away. They had to keep their dinosaur area very different from Universals dinosaur area.
@@Fataliese They would have to change the preshow and some of the dialogue but that's it. Just change the story to you going back as a tourist but don't go far enough and at the end they save you and you are in the land. It won't be super cheap but it won't be a lot either and that preshow looks very outdated anyways.
for me, the darkness is exactly what makes dinosaur stand out more and more immersive. with indy you can clearly see the flat surface your vehicle is riding on for the entire duration of the ride
People can feel when corners have been cut, even if they can't explain it. The theming of Dino Land wasn't a result of the storytelling, but a result of cost cutting and having to fit a story to it. Joe rohde didn't think to himself "hey let's make a roadside Attraction that was set up because of the institute." He was forced to try to come up with a story based around a cheaply themed land, due to cost cutting. The same goes for dinosaur. The darkness was a way to cut cost, making them have to fit a story to it. Luckily, Joe rohde can tell a cohesive story with sticks and a rock if he had to.
I agree that the cuts are apparent, though I still feel the theming of the land is excellent, if not full of untapped potential. I really like your last sentence though.
I really do not understand the take about the darkness on the ride itself. Its a DARK ride and like he said in the video, it adds a lot to the attraction. The jurassic river aventure shows that dino animatronics + full lighting is a bad combo
Also worth mentioning I believe is the fact that dinosaur kind of changed its intensity. People kept complaining about the scariness of the ride and thus I noticed between my trips in 2009 and 2012 that the volume was brought down on the carnotaurus and that in a couple of scenes the carnotaurus was pulled back physically from how close it would get to the ride vehicle. Dinosaur represents one of the best thrill rides not just in animal Kingdom but in the entire theme park and it's kind of sad that they pulled it back to a point where for those who have written at both times, it actually feels a bit boring now.
oh god i rode it as a teen and was terrified. This was coming from a horror movie fanatic but something about the carnotaurus just sprinting after you never knowing how close hed get next time in pitch black felt like you were right in the middle of a horror thriller. Had to do breathing exercises when i got off and the ~12 year old behind me broke down crying. Also the photo op with the pterodactyl was blinding oh my god. still feel like my eyes are recovering from that a decade later.
@@denisemcg9029 Alien Encounter was intense! Being locked down like that. The only thing I would have taken out of that (and stiches escape) was the bad breath intensity. Fear and the endorphin rush of relief is one thing, disgust is another. Instead of closing it down, I think it would have fit well in the old Hollywood studios as an actual "Alien" xenomorph. But oh well. But back to Dinosaur, when I rode it in 2012, it still was intense for my wife (though slightly less) it seemed to just not make sense to me. Especially at the climax Carnotaurus encounter. It wasn't designed to be that far back and it was harder a to see it as well. The detail in feeling that warm humid dino breath is not as well appreciated and it deserves to be.
The attraction was definitely toned down in intensity, as I distinctly remember the one Cearadactylus would swoop down on the vehicle. However, the ride did get a significant upgrade in 2017 (I believe?) where a lot of the effects were restored and better lighting made it more exciting with little meteors falling everywhere.
@@PoseidonEntertainment my favorite scene was significantly toned down. The carnotaurus used to come out of nowhere and run along side the vehicle for a little bit. But now it seems like it runs for far less and lightning flashes/strobe effects nullify the impact of how good that effect actually was.
@@PoseidonEntertainment i heard they turned the terodactyl effect off because it was a safety hazard... i'm not a big fan of enhancing dark rides with screens but i dont mind it at all on dinosaur, the meteor effects really add to the urgency that you need to find the iguanadon in time, and the baby dinosaurs on the screens dont look nearly as bad as some of the effects in navi river journey
I love Dinosaur, first rode it as a kid shortly after they switched from the Countdown to Extinction theming (I remember at the time you could still buy CTX merchandise at the gift store) and I've never understood why it isn't a more highly regarded attraction. Then again, Disney doesn't do it many favors letting so many effects fall apart
I always preferred Dinosaur bc of the whole sci-fi/race against time aspect of the story so it just comes across as more exciting. I like how Dinosaur uses complete darkness more to its advantage specifically during the chase scene where a lot is left to your imagination and how the ride becomes darker and more intense as it progresses. It's also one of the rare Disney attractions along with Alien Encounter that is complete nightmare fuel and intentionally scary.
It's a weird hold-over from the Eisner era, and I think that's a large part of why I appreciate it. Today's Disney is too focused on the Kindergarten demographic, to their own detriment I think.
Both are good in my opinion. They both are rides that I wish Disney would work to build instead of screen based rides. They both have so many practical sets, my only grip being the skeleton blow dart scene in Indy is kinda lack luster. Reminds me of small time carnivals or amusement parks. Otherwise both shine as some of the best rides at the parks.
Having grown up on Temple and finally gotten out to Disneyworld to try Dino, I was extremely disappointed in how lacking I found the attraction. I think this video does a great job at showing Dino's strengths, but I also think it overplays their significance in the overall experience of the ride. I'd like to break down the rides into a few categories and compare them. Queue / outside theming Indy has one of the best queues and themes in the Disneyland park, and it is extended into Adventureland in a general way - the entire land is themed to the same era, the jungle cruise boats and queue building have the same weathered look, etc. Dino takes it a step further, as noted in the video, by being a key part of the overall land's story. While ambitious, this effort fails to achieve its goals. The average guest, unfamiliar with the land's story and theme, fails to pick up on it. Thus the queue for Dino, while fitting well into the overall land, does not show and tell enough of the land's story to carry the day. Also, the immersiveness of Indy's queue far surpasses the immersiveness of Dino - when I walk into the temple, I feel like I'm in a temple, not a 3/4 mile walk to the edge of the park where the ride building is. Dino does makes me feel like I'm in a museum, so it's arguably equally successful there, but that is a lot less special of an experience. Storytelling The story of Indy is told through a fun pre-show video. Dino's pre-show was not as engaging for me; the characters were more flat and there was no aura of mystery that dealing with a magical deity granting gifts naturally generates. Right from the pre-show, Indy makes you wonder what gift you will get and if you will look into the eye or not. Dino just tells you you're going to be going to get a dinosaur and doesn't set up much mystery or anticipation there, aside from going along with breaking some rules. Once you get on the ride, Indy's story is rather easy to follow - you looked into the eye, you are doomed, Indy saves you, and you have to escape the temple. It's not the most involved story, but it's easy to follow in a fast-paced and generally overwhelming ride. Dino sets you out to find a specific dinosaur with very little information given on how you are going to capture it or even locate it. You drive around for a bit and see some dinosaurs, get into some danger, suddenly find what you're looking for and the ride is over. In terms of plot points, Indy gives us premise, anticipation, twist, new objective, climax, and return to a station where an oblivious Sala "celebrates our arrival". Dino gives us a premise, a twist, some threat, and very quickly the resolution and ending. The plot pacing is front-loaded for Indy, but rear-loaded for Dino, which doesn't give the guests time to process what's going on during the ride. Ride theming Indy makes you feel like you're in an old temple. Dino makes you feel like you're in a prehistoric forest. Both themes are executed as well as they can be, but Indy is the more compelling theme. I've been in a forest a lot, but I've been in a temple ruins never. I agree with the video's point about the darkness being a tool used in the ride, but I think they could have added more light - even just headlights for the ride vehicle - to really help sell the forest a bit better. Both rides hit the theme they aim for, but I find Indy's theme more interesting. Effects Indy just has better effects. Projection effects on the doors and Mara statue, as well as the chamber of destiny changing for each of Mara's gifts. In the bridge room, Mara's laser eye hits various pieces of the temple and sets off small explosions. And last, the very best effect in any of the American parks, the boulder scene that is still 100% convincing even though I know everything about it. Dino competes with some animatronic dinosaurs and not much else. Dino had no moment where I was awed by what I was seeing - nothing made me wonder how they did an effect. I can see Dino getting a major refurb that really plusses the attraction - which is what Indy has gotten over the years - but as it currently is, there's just no competition. The unique use of the ride vehicles should probably also go in this section. While the programming for the vehicles across both rides is basically the same, I argue that Indy uses the capabilities of the vehicles to a greater degree. Specifically, the section where you turn into the bridge room after being saved by Indy, the sudden reveal and pitch forward allows all passengers to have a few seconds to take in the room, and then the vehicle simulates bumping down some stairs (which Indy had previously warned about). And the boulder scene is aided by the vehicle tilting back and shaking as the boulder rolls forward, heightening the feeling of trying to reverse away. Dino's vehicle doesn't have either of these movements, and only simulates the general offroad and overbank turning, as far as I could tell. Sound Indy has a ride score that is based on the film scores. You hear classic refrains and the music is dynamic and builds tension, and is also specific to various parts of the ride. I don't specifically remember the music on Dino, but I assume there was some. I'm sure it did help set the mood and amplify parts of the ride, but I don't think it can compare to a score that draws from 3 action-adventure movies composed by John Williams. So when you put that all together, from my view at least, there isn't a single thing that Dino does better than Indy aside from generally fitting into the land's theme better, and since the land's story is not well displayed, that can be hard to pick up on. I don't think Dino is a bad ride, but I also don't think it's anywhere near the same tier as Indy, a ride that is still holding its own against newer attractions like Rise of the Resistance.
Really good and thought out points here! I appreciate the time you took to articulate them. A quick note, but the only music on Dinosaur is at the very end. Otherwise it's just all audio related directly to the environment, dinosaurs and Seeker.
…I have been insisting for more than a decade that Dinosaur is one of the best rides in the world and people think I’m fucking insane as a result. You are my new hero ✌️
Dinosaur is always a must do for me. The darkness enhances the experience and without having one big showroom, it helps keep the surprises in store, whereas when you see the riders in front of you in Indy, it makes your experience feel less special since in Dinosaur, the narrative implies the people in front of you are doing the standard tour in the Early Cretaceous and YOU and YOUR GROUP are going on this secret mission whereas in Indy, everyone is going through the exact same adventure you are. It’s the Verisimilitude of the attractions that Dinosaur keeps intact MOSTLY depending on the spacing of the vehicles, whereas Indy compromises right out of the gate. Dinosaur is narrative driven, I agree. But it works in the same way Jaws works. You don’t see the shark 90% of the time but when it shows up, it’s surprising. Same with Dinosaur, you don’t see a lot but that adds to the atmosphere where you don’t know what’s gonna happen next, at any moment a dinosaur can show up from the darkness, you can take a turn you didn’t expect to take, or the ultimate horror when the bumpiness knocks your phone out of your pocket in the middle of the ride and the Dino Institute amounts a mission to retrieve it due to not being able to contact family who could be anywhere in the whole resort without it. (Kudos to those cast members btw). Indy is still a great ride but it works in completely different ways than Dinosaur does.
Even though Dinosaur tells a much better story, and the end of the day, Indy is more fun for a lot of people. I think that’s why they can’t explain it, because you’re 100% right with this video essay. Indy’s theme, I think, is more chaotic danger. There’s no depth to it. Dinosaur has character development with Dr. Seeker, and uses darkness to tell a linear story. But Indy is more fun lolol (to me, at least)
I went to animal kingdom for the first time earlier this year and loved Dinosaur. It felt much more thrilling than indiana Jones and was actually kind of scary.
For me, Dinosaur is one of the top 15 attractions at WDW. I have no idea why it gets overlooked. I prefer it over Space Mountain, Soarin, Mission:Space, Test Track, and Toy Story Mania, to name a few. I’m not sure if I like it better than Indy but good video.
The comment by So Good sums up a lot of my feelings on the two that I can't put into words well but to add some of my personal opinions, I will admit that I'm biased towards Indy. As an autistic kid, my special interest for YEARS was Indiana Jones, I wore his hat all the time and would dress up like him as much as I could. The ride holds a very very special place in my heart because of this. Aside from that though, I think the musical score for the ride emphasizes all of the narrative beats, the cue when you see the bridge still gives me shivers. Dinosaur is great and I agree with your points tbh but the reliance on strobe lighting makes for a poor sensory experience as someone who is sensitive to those things. My reasoning for why I like Indy over Dinosaur are biased but I acknowledge both of their successes and failures openly
Dinosaur is an amazing ride. Definitely one of my favorites. I love Dinoland USA, but I do think it needs a revamp. As a geologist, I must say that the land should be replaced as an entire paleontology land. Paleontology isn’t just dinosaurs. We have Millions upon millions of years of complex life they could cover. Lots of animals that could receive the spotlight!
I’ll never forget the time I thought I was going into a living with the land type ride and wound up in dinosaur. I was underwhelmed. The building looked like an escape from the heat and I kind of just laughed off the name. I didn’t think I’d be on an intense thrill ride. It took me 3 uncomfortable rides to understand the story. Unlike Indiana Jones where I’m immersed from the moment I enter the queue. To me, there’s no comparison between Indiana Jones and dinosaur. Dinosaur feels too intense and outdated as Indiana Jones stands the rest of time and remains a ride I want to go on again. Dinosaur land leans hard on a nerve of mine and I’m not sure if it’s because of how lazy the theming is in comparison to pandora.
@Frederick Shull i agree with loving the Indiana Jones stunt show the most out of everything. I would like to see an update for dinosaur. I personally don’t like to compare the two rides but I would enjoy the ride better if the queue was more immersive like Indiana Jones, the ride itself less bumpy (I don’t mind intense but I don’t want to feel jostled around like I do), and possibly more theming within the ride. I know that universal’s Jurassic park ride went through multiple refurbishments before we got the amazing ride of our time and it was still a good ride of its time before the refurbs. I don’t want to see dinosaur go but I also don’t like it in this state. I would like to see dinosaur land go or at least get the theming it deserves.
@@patsysolatzzo2962 I would say Jurassic Park is extremely lazy. I’ve said this before in other posts, but I think that land is a huge missed opportunity. It should be great, but it’s not. I would like to see Disney build a much larger scale dinosaur area with other good attractions. Disney has a long history with dinosaurs and I’m sorry the universe of energy no longer exists with all of its amazing animatronic dinosaurs
The dinosaur movie sucks as well so I don't understand saying it's a better story than Indiana Jones... Those people should watch Indiana Jones, they're great films
@Frederick Shull never met someone who liked that movie lol. I agree the computer animation was special but toy story came out far before, and I never thought the story of dinosaur was good lol Raiders of the lost ark however is a MASTERPIECE of a film
@@Courier_333 you are missing the point. It’s about the stories behind the rides. They are both loosely based on the films. Why are you, the rider, a part of the story now? That’s what it is about
I honestly can't agree with the conclusion; I grew up an absolute dinosaur nut *and* an Indiana Jones fan, but I can only speak to how I felt exiting each ride, and for me I felt pure exhilaration after experiencing Indy for the first time in 2017, while Dinosaur kind of leaves me feeling like it's fun, but not breathtaking. I appreciate its cohesion with Dinoland USA as a whole, but Indy was one of the last times I got to experience a Disney attraction for the first time and walk off feeling blown away, a feeling I didn't even get from Flight of Passage after going on it in 2019.
I swear there used to be another lighted scene that has been dark for years. Maybe I'm wrong, but I swear the ride is much darker than in the beginning.
I prefer Indy because it has much more impressive special effects from flamethrowers to moving walls to consistently fluid and impressive animatronics, making the ride feel more immersive and impressive than the alternative. Plus the musical score that plays throughout the entire ride synced up to whatever room or set piece you’re going through makes for a more exhilarating attraction compared to having sounds of roars, talking, and jeep noises playing throughout the ride.
I definitely think the dark part of the Indie ride should be renewed to something better, and change the dart skeletons into physical objects, or at least screens
Theming. While you are right to point out that tying the theming to a land is very important, there is a problem. The 2 main metrics I use for judging theming are: 1) Does the themeing feel believable for the sort of location we are? 2) How far from present day reality is that theming? Yes, the theming is well done, consistent, and carries across the land. But what is that theming? Institutes that studied Dinosaurs, and the road side attraction that popped up with it. That's a poor score for Metric number 2. Sure it's easy to be consistent when all the props look like actual equipment people use. Indy's theming is that pulp science-y 1930's grungy adventure camp. Transporting us nearly 100 years into the past, we have rusty generators that can barely power all the lights, The Slide Show and Dateline News Broadcast feel appropriate to the theme. the traps in the queue remind us that likely weeks ago, this dungeon was really dangerous, and people may have gotten hurt. Choosing to continue into the depths of the Temple takes more courage. While the themeing for the time travel institute is much more sterile, and muesum-esque. If their attraction of the time travel cars just wasn't working today, there wouldn't have been any mortal danger. The Queue itself presents whiplash, because unlike say Extra-TERROR-estrial Encounter, the preshow didn't do a solid enough job of really communicating to us, "There will be danger, people already have not come back alive. I wouldn't feel bad if you turned back now." And really, as a whole DinoLand doesn't really fit in with Animal Kingdom. The Other lands Asia and Africa certainly are much more about immersion into these areas. But what we have there now? It's pathetic. It feels cheaply made to justify having Dinosaurs here. If they really wanted to theme the land, They would have made the entrance the super science-y area where they opened a portal into the past, and concentrated their food and souvenirs by the entrance as a sort of "Base Camp" And then the rest of the land was largely over grown wild plants, and rough Signage and railings to determine where to go. Parts of the Sidewalks should have large areas with large rocks and fallen trees, making even walking around the land appear to feel wild and hostile. Cast Members should be kitted out for survival, with large rucksacks, flare guns, walkie talkies etc. The Attraction then could have been similar then, an expedition searching for this dinosaur to capture and catalog, and this fueling depot outpost is the last human device you will see, after that it's all wild. If Indy's theming was the 1930's, Dinosaur's theming should have been the ancient past. and it was, but only when you were on the attraction. The Darkness. This is a huge bit for me though. One of the Highlights in my opinion with Indy is that large room where you see all the danger around you. There is enough light to see there are other people out there, and everywhere you look something dangerous wants to kill you. We only entered this area for our own selfish reasons, now we may well receive our eternal reward for our greed. While the story of Dinosaur is similarly life threatening, we weren't exactly promised that before hand, the danger and thrill comes later, as a happenstance. In an alternate universe, all these random animals weren't there, and we performed an extraction of the Iquanadon without any fuss. If only we'd brought guns with us, we might not be in such peril. But the Temple in Indy isn't something we can just shoot our way out of the problem. At best that would save us from the giant cobra, but the lasers, lava, rumbling bridge, insects, mice , dart trap boulder trap and whatever was behind that door Indy sealed can't be survived by shooting at them. But Dinosaur the way they chose to go couldn't do the same thing. Because they wanted to tie most of the peril to the Carnisaurus, It had to appear and have places it could leap out and surprise you with. Thus they added the Darkness to the attraction. Yes it served it's role in making a tighter story that felt more individual, but it didn't really suit the building or layout the way it did for Indy, with the wide open space to see your peril. If Dinosaur wanted to be a more individual attraction, the layout and construction of the areas could have been developed to allow those to happen. But they tried to retrofit that type of experience into the incorrectly proportioned Indy Ride. In My Blue sky version of the attraction, since there isn't this ticking clock element of the meteor, I would design the attraction lighting to follow what's happening Astronomically outside. If it's day time, the attraction is brightly lit like the day, if it's sunset, the colors shift to warm hues. and at night it's all dark purples and blues, with starlight. That would literally theme it to the land outside, and offer some different feelings when riding the attraction at different times. You could still build the final showdown with the carnicourous in a Cave, so it's still dark to perform all the complicated movements the room needs.
14:57 the ride still pulls around 60 minutes. When it opened it was around 90 min. The difference is that the ride queue changed to stack those in line outside the temple and to clear people to go in when the queue starts up again in the central area by the well and projector room. I think this was because guests kept complaining about claustrophobia and some people got panic attacks. I remember people got really uneasy in line when the ride first opened and it was sponsored by AT&T and they gave out the translator cards.
I absolutely get what you're saying about the idea of using darkness to give feelings of chaos, but I also feel you may be giving the original design a little too much credit. I think much of the darkness was more a result of tight budgets to get the project to completion. In addition, I think the Dinosaur story has degraded a bit over the years due to elements being permanently shut off. While efforts have certainly been made to upgrade or replace those broken elements, there are still just awkward moments of narrative pause. Now, Indy has those too, especially the rat scene. There are a lot of very subtle hidden details in Dinosaur that honestly make it a great story, but like Indy nowadays, Guests have even less time to pick up on them to put together the narrative story. I think overall Dinosaur is great, it's fun, its exhilarating, but as a narrative it just feels a bit disjointed and the excess of dark moments with nothing to see are just a tad bit unnecessary. It's clear that in the world we travel to in Dinosaur there is light, you can see it in the vistas near the beginning of the ride, yet near the end there's just pure darkness, which isn't realistic at all, there should be at least something visible to give the eye something to reference. A few pieces of foliage here and there would do wonders. I've had the opportunity to walk the Dinosaur track with lights on, there's just nothing there in so much of the building. Indy always has something to see, and in the moments it doesn't, it makes sense. It also combines elements of a cherished movie franchise which instantly will rate it higher for riders purely out of nostalgia. Everyone wants to be a part of an Indiana Jones adventure, not everyone could picture themselves time traveling to the end of the Dinosaurs for...reasons? That subconscious by-in surely plays a role as well. Overall, I think Indy has a stronger narrative, even if it's hard to pick up on it with the lack of queue time, it also has a stronger visual presence, and for me (not necessarily everyone will think this way) it looks more complete. Dinosaur is fun, but to me it looks like the victim of slashed budgets, not necessarily a psychological mind trip.
I know that Dinoland made the cut in opposition to Beastly Kingdom, but I never thought of the darkness in terms of budget cuts. That very well may be true, but the dark portions always seemed to be taking maximum advantage of the motion capabitilies of the EMVs, and so it still seems like a very intentional design choice to me. Do you know if the budget cuts are documented, or is it just a community assumption?
@@PoseidonEntertainment I definitely don't have documentation as there's definitely no way aside from Imagineers' reminiscing that it would come out from Disney, but I base it on a few elements I've seen and heard that have been cut as well as extrapolation from the attraction as a whole. It's pretty well established there was supposed to be an effect at the end of the attraction showing the Iguanodon on your rover that had to be cut, and the odd mix of scenes that are well lit vs complete darkness just have a thematic clash. Now, I don't think there's a single Disney attraction out there that didn't have to make budget cuts from the blue-sky phase. That's just reality. Even Indy has some pretty solid signs of shortcuts taken to save money that were remedied with Tokyo's budgets in the latter iteration. With Dinosaur I think it just becomes so much more apparent as there are just extended times where there's just literally nothing to see. There's a dinosaur with a head and no body, covered by what looks to be Christmas lights hanging from curtains. Supposedly you're driving over it's tail, but there's no tail to see. Even a painted body would be an improvement over the magical floating head. At times too you see the other rovers in the building, namely directly before you're attacked by a now-stationary pterodactyl. This kinda kills the narrative that you're the only rover going on Seeker's mission. But that kills the narrative a bit on Indy too. I agree that darkness and sound can create foreboding, and Dinosaur does it well, but even just some landscaping or hints at the thickness of a jungle would do wonders to reinforce the narrative. It's so close to being what you don't see makes the story stronger, but having ridden this thing more times than I can count, to me it comes across as more "we couldn't afford to show you more, so focus on these select things". I feel this runs in direct conflict to Disney's typical and timeless storytelling. Even when there's nothing to see, there's still something to see. The magic is in the details, and for Dinosaur, there's just a lot of dead space. Again though, I have to reiterate, it is an extremely fun attraction, but if I don't make it on, I don't feel disappointed in the same way I would if I missed Indy. Call it nostalgia, I think that would be fair, but overall I think Indy does more to take me out of the park and into a "authentic" experience.
Good points! I've only ridden Dinosaur once, but I think you might be right to say it is a better thematic dark ride/narrative attraction than Indy for the reasons you covered in your video. I would argue that Indy is a better ride for the "wow-factor", because it seems like it has more successful (EDIT: and creative) practical effects in the boulder scene and the chamber opening scene that just make you wonder "how did they do that?!" Those two alone, especially after the projection mapping update, are standouts that I believe elevate it ever so slightly above Dinosaur for most folks. I have only ridden it once, but I can't really recall any real effects that weren't clever positioning/delayed reveals of animatronics which don't have the same "woah" factor as say the boulder tunnel from Indy. Great video! Really enjoying your efforts and video essays! EDIT: Oh, and I forgot the "big giant temple room reveal" as another "wow-factor" moment; you really feel like you're in a mysterious temple from the movies. I don't recall Dinosaur having anything like that huge room reveal, so it feels much closer to one of the classic Fantasyland dark rides but with the EMV's dynamic movements to move your between set pieces, which may be why I don't feel as "impressed" by Dinosaur after riding it.
I think you have a solid argument here. I didn't really take that "wow factor" into consideration, but I've also become desensitized to things like that. Now that you say it though, I definitely take your point.
Well, I wouldn't claim objectivity. I just feel that the more linear narrative of Dinosaur gives it a stronger edge, though I can see where people would disagree and they wouldn't be wrong.
Honestly, my favorite thing about Dinosaur - and I know it's based on a movie (that I know nothing about) so that's probably why - is that they didn't pick obvious super-cliche dinosaurs for the plot, like "oh, we need to save a triceratops and there's a T. rex coming after us" or something like that. It looks like they did real research Mega underrated ride. It's a shame that it's in likely the most obscure corner of the park
I never knew people disliked Dinosaur; I've always considered it one of my favorite Disney rides. It wasn't too intense for me when I was 9, but I guess all kids are different. Narrative cohesion between scenes and the use of darkness to trick your senses and prompt your imagination are utilized well, and you can't claim the ride is short on animatronics despite those bouts in the darkness, so I've always considered it a well-executed experience. I've never been on Indiana Jones though, so it's hard for me to compare the two.
Dinosaur is my son's favorite ride. Last time we went he had us go on 4 times in a row. I really got an opportunity to notice small details and appreciate the imagineering that went into it's creation. Thanks for the great analysis on your video!
One note about Indy's wall glyphs: I think they contribute to the theming about as well now as they did when people could easily decode them, albeit in a different way. I went on Indy as a kid when the cards were still being given out, and I remember enjoying the decoding process with my friends as I stood in (to me) the world's longest line. It got to the point where we'd read the card so many times that we could read the last few inscriptions more or less unaided, which made us feel like we were in the story. However, I've also ridden Indy as an adult with no glyph card, and when I took a younger relative on the ride, I noticed something in her reaction to the queue: the glyphs were now something to stare at and puzzle over even when the line was short. Seen through her eyes, the glyphs became a mystery to be solved. The idea of lost civilizations and forgotten languages is part of the Indy vibe, too, and now there's a forgotten language right in front of you. She asked me if I knew what the inscriptions said, and I admitted I only knew a few letters, so I could pick out words like "Mara" but not read the whole thing anymore. I honestly think that made the experience more exciting for both of us, especially since most of the messages I remembered were things like "do not look into the eyes of Mara", which the pre-show covered anyway. I miss the days when the ceiling moved, though. That was brilliant and a great way to amuse kids in line. (I've never ridden Dinosaur and have no opinion on its relative quality.)
I get what you’re saying about the darkness of dinasaur. The issue there though is that the ride is TOO dark, and the lighting dosen’t compensate for that darkness as well as it should. The time travel tunnels are clearly designed to adjust the eyes to the darkness from the well lit institute, but fail in this regard due to the extreme lack of light in the main attraction. As such, the shift is jarring and by the time your eyes have properly adjusted, the ride’s almost over. The ride sadly wasn’t designed with human eye adjustment in mind and suffers for it, while Indy has decent enough lighting and design to remain coherent.
@@PoseidonEntertainment On my last visit it felt toooo dark. Beyond narrative. My guess is they aren't investing in it because it's days are numbered.
There's 3 main reasons why I like Indy more than Dinosaur. Reason 1 is that I don't like the darkness on the ride. I have to agree with the people that say it feels like a crutch. Even though I understand the purpose of it, it breaks the immersion for me a lot and just feels rushed. Reason 2 is that at least when I rode it Dinosaur was unnecessarily loud. Like ear splittingly, painfully loud when it really had no reason to be. That might have just been the one time I rode it back in 2012, but it hindered the experience to have me covering my ears the whole ride. And before anyone says anything, every other ride I did was fine volume wise. Rock n Roller Coaster, Tower of Terror, Everest, etc. But Dinosaur was just too darn loud. And reason 3. The hand holding. The entire ride you have Dr. Seeker yammering away and telling you what's happening. Not only is it extremely obnoxious but goes in the way of the show don't tell experience that the queue has. Whereas on Indiana Jones, sure Indy pops up to steer you in the right direction or help you get past certain obstacles but the rest of the ride, you're on your own. It feels more like your own adventure where Dinosaur feels like it holds your hand through and makes sure to explain everything that's happening. Another point for Indy also is the music. Which is why I like the temple of the forbidden eye more than even the Tokyo counterpart. It makes it all feel like a movie that's happening around you. At times it can make things more tense and at times it feels like it's cheering you on as you venture through the temple. But on Dinosaur there really is no music, and while that's more realistic sure it makes the ride feel empty in an unintended way.
@@libertarian1178 to me the music isn't a deal breaker but a cherry on top. If you watch the Tokyo Version of Indiana Jones, from the bridge all the way up until you leave that big room there's no music. Just eery sounds and engine noises. To me that subtracts greatly from the experience and makes me prefer the California version despite all of it's flaws.
@@PoseidonEntertainment well, Indiana Jones is my favorite ride of all time that isn't a roller coaster. So I've thought long and hard about why I love it so much
Ok UPDATE: I have now ridden it again and the recent refurb they did fixed a lot of my issues with the ride. I don't think it's better than indiana jones, but on my recent trip I really got to like it for what it is. I think my loudness issue was because of my height? Like I was just tall enough to have the speaker blaring right in my face. The darkness issue has been fixed but oddly enough it created a different issue which is seeing the mechanisms running the dinosaurs just as much AS the dinosaurs. Dr. Seeker still needs to STFU, and a soundtrack would be nice as well. The only other issue I have with it is really minor, but what are those pterodactyls? They look like 70s Halloween decorations and REALLY stick out in a bad way with how all the other dinosaurs look great
Darkness is one thing, but when the ride is *so dark* that you can't even see anything but a handful of theming elements, it really results in a lackluster experience. The low-light POV used here shows waaaaaaaaay more detail than I've ever actually seen when riding the attraction. Overall, when you compare Dinosaur to Indy, there's really no comparison at all. Dinosaur: Lots of darkness Seeker says some stuff Computer calls out a random dinosaur species You see that dino animatronic as the one lit thing amidst a sea of darkness Repeat until the ride ends Indy: Lots of highly-varied, well-lit scenes Multi-faceted effects, including actual fire effects, lasers, use of vehicle lights/projection effects, air puffs, etc. Great musical score Narration that's actually interesting Well-implemented connection to beloved film franchise And just everything about the theming is just so much better, from the queue to the temple facade and how it works in the park, to the preshow, etc. Maybe Dinosaur was actually good at some point when it was better lit and they had more of the effects working. But it's just so dated now, in a very neglected corner of an underwhelming park. Indy is timeless and has aged really well. It's a must-do on any Disneyland visit. But Dinosaur is entirely skippable. I simply can't agree with your stance on the matter. (But A+ at driving engagement by throwing out controversial hot takes.)
Darkness as themeing is kind of like the parking lot Dino land theme. They got the theme down but it's not a compelling theme. What Indiana Jones does well is taking us through iconic Indiana Jones themes like the rolling rock, darts being shot , snakes and the lure of supernatural treasures. With Dinosaur the story wasn't as compelling and I came off the ride being annoyed by the strobe lights and how loud it was.
I’ve always thought this. At the same time, I hate that so many people argue that one should replace the other on either coast. The world is better with both attractions. That being said, Dinosaur might be my favorite attraction at Walt Disney World. Indy might be in the top 10 at Disneyland.
People tend to prefer whichever ride they did first. The plots are super similar: find dino/indy then escape to safety. Arguing that dino has a better plot is baffling. I prefer Indy because the big giant room is awesome. And I feel that there are distinct sections: Eye of mara -> big room and surrounding chambers -> cramped spaces and boulder -> safety! Dino is just "drive around in dark, see dinos" with no difference in the type of room or type of thrill.
I can't find any discernible point in Indy's narrative where the guests must find Indy? It appears that he just happens to be there to the best of my knowledge.
@@PoseidonEntertainment I believe there is a journal or something in Indy's office that explains that Sallah has begrudgingly taken over handling "the tourists" while Indy explores the temple, and he's been gone longer than expected, but our jeep tour was not actually intended to be a rescue mission.
I prefer Indiana Jones. I think the story and setting is more engaging, feels like I just stepped into an Indiana Jones adventure whereas Dinosaur kinda feels like it didn't have Disney's full attention
Another opinion I fully stand by! I absolutely LOVE Dinosaur, and it definitely doesn’t get as much credit as it should sadly, but I’m glad your shining a light on it with your vid :) Btw, will we be expecting a Galactic Starcruiser video essay soon? Or closer to when it opens?
I wasn't really planning on it because I wanted to wait until media got full access. However, I had a midnight idea yesterday and started rolling it into a different script, focusing on the failure of Disney's marketing and PR recently. Probably not the best vid, but people really want to see my talk about it, so why not?
I think one big negative of Indiana Jones that you forgot is that how much of the ride today is broken down and how many of the original affects aren't on anymore. Such as the laser eye beam being lackluster, the timing of the darts and their accompanying airbursts being off, the giant cobra no longer moving, and the original ice/fog machines breaking down due to lack of maintenance. The Indiana Jones ride we have today is worse than it was on opening day. I haven't been to Animal Kingdom in quite some time but it seems as if Dinosaur has been maintained better than Indy. Still love both rides though!
Referring back to the point about onboard character audio versus audio coming from the set, there is definitely no competition as to which audio is easier to hear and interpret. However, the impression I got when riding Dinosaur was that the audio was too clean and polished, and sounded more scripted than audio coming from a scene, losing some sense of immersion. On the contrary, the audio coming from the set is harder to interpret but sounds as if the dialogue was made up on the fly by the character standing there, not prerecorded in a studio. In addition, your ears can pinpoint exactly where the audio is coming from, providing further reason that there is an actual person standing there experiencing the story alongside your vehicle, rather than an audio clip from within your vehicle.
I really wish Universal could have used this ride system for Kong: Skull Island for either a Jurassic Park Ride (like Dinosaur) or Kong ride. The Kong queue is already amazing and quite similar to Indiana Jones. It's a shame it was wasted on a copy/paste of the Backlot Tour with an impressive animatronic.
I thought the spiked ceiling in the queue is just another effect that took too much maintenance and was left unworking, not turned off because it was too scary.
Not only has the intensity of the ride been toned down, but the effects and animatronics have aged horribly or have been turned off entirely. For Indy, the amazing set design tends to help make up for aging elements, but Dino is really all about those effects and animatronics. They've been neglected and left to rot, so the entire ride experience suffers greatly as a result.
I’d wager that the main reason why so many people dislike Dinosaur is bc they might have gone to Disney World for a while not realizing the story behind Dinoland USA & why it’s intentionally kitschy & campy. Now that I know the story, I’ve come to appreciate it a lot more now for what it is even tho my first time visiting the parks was in the late 90s.
I definitely agree. Most people don't pick up on the stories that the lands around Animal Kingdom are telling and miss some fundamental aspects of what makes the park so great.
It's a shame Disney hasn't done anything significant with this ride/area for so long. They could re-theme area with surviving Mesozoic plant, update the ride and make it nice'n scary again, and maybe add a new slow ride; a ride that takes you through evolutionary history with all the creatures and environments based on the latest data and brought to life by animatronics, CGI screens, projection mapping to good 'ol static props and amazing murals. That would really distinguish everything for Universal's JP, too.
For some reason you list the darkness in Dinosaur as a positive. That you think it's deliberately done, but it's way too much. Indiana Jones is gorgeous and they want you to see everything. Dinosaur is all about taking short cuts and hiding. It feels like you are in a cave, which makes no sense. Indiana Jones, which is in a cave, still let's you see everything.
I like Indiana Jones more because I like the grand room with Mara’s ruined face, and how you weave in and out of that room. I look in awe over the spectacle of scope of it all, and how it feels chaotic. Dinosaur, especially due in part to its parts with darkness, make it feel more cramped and less going on other than “that’s not our Dino”, “that’s not our Dino”, “that’s DEFINITELY not our Dino”, the end. Also, this might seem like poor criticism, but the countdown to extinction in Dinosaur reminds me that the ride is ending. With all of that being said, the points brought up in the video are valid.
As someone who rode Indiana Jones, I always expected that the ending of this ride would be a giant "meteor" hurling directly at you which you avoided using the same trick mechanism that you see with the boulder at the end of Indiana Jones. I think ending it with a dinosaur head ala "Jurassic Park the Ride" was a mistake. The ride would be a lot more impactful with a big, bright meteor set piece at the end. Think about it! Instead of all that darkness you could have the brilliant light of a meteor.
The original climax to Count Down To Extinction WAS a meteor hurling towards you before everything blacks out immediately followed by an explosion back to the Time Travel Lab.
As you said, each of these two rides are fantastic, and Dinosaur does get hate it doesn’t deserve. However, I enjoy Indie more because of the spectacle. When I go to a Disney park, I want to see something ambitious and something I can’t see anywhere else. While Dinosaur has a fantastic story, the spectacle of it isn’t anywhere near Indie’s in my opinion. A fully themed temple with tons of different intricate effects is much more impressive than some animatronic Dinos in the grass. The story brings Dinosaur up a little, but when I think about Dinosaur, I just think about the ending. When I think about Indie, I can name pretty much every scene in it because each has a spectacular effect. And that’s with me having gone to World more times than Land. So for me, the spectacle and theming make Indie better than Dinosaur, however from a storytelling perspective, I accept that Dinosaur is better.
One of my favorite scenes in any attraction is the moment in Indy when you pull into the temple room with the lasers and pyrotechnics. It takes my breath away every time. Indy is beautiful spectacle all the way.
Although I do love Dinoland .U.S.A, I prefer Indy because of it's more cohesive storyline and world building. And Dinosaur has some plot holes, for example we never find out how we time travel back in time. We're just put through a "time travel machine tunnel"
You make a well rounded argument. That being said, I think Dinosaurs lack of maintenance/disrepair takes away from the experience. The last time we rode it it really was “Dark - The Attraction” because hardly anything was working.
I think the main problem is that Dinosaur kind of fails to fully immerse people with it's theming. Sure, it's really well done with the the points you've made, but honestly, most guests don't care about this sort of stuff sadly, nor won't get it. They just want to have simple and fast, exhilarating fun on indy, not be overwhelmed, confused, and possbily freightened on Dinosaur. From the start of indy's queue, you can believe all of this stuff is real, because, well, it is! Though, of course, that's not even a remotely fair comparison though, considering the budget cuts they needed to take for dinoland USA. Lastly, I think this is a minor, but relatively important nitpick, but Dinosaur seems pretty outdated. I kind of don't need to explain myself when it comes to the preshow, as much as I like it, is pretty old, not to mention the disco pteranadons not even moving an inch. Like someone mentioned here in the comments, Indy is a fun, chaotic madness, while Dinosaur is an insane, messy madness. And we already know how much of a mess disney is in the parks (in the figurative sense, ofc), especially as of late. I'm gonna end it here, as this is far too long.
Don't most guests notice the details? If they didn't, why go to Disney and not Six Flags? The importance and subtly of theming is what has allowed Disney to achieve the status it has. Also, disco Pteranodons? What?
@@PoseidonEntertainment Sorry for the late reply. I'm certain 90% of people won't get the design philosphy from the short amount of time they spend on the ride, let alone the park. I get that everyone has different views and experiences, but I can safely say most people just won't care about design philosphy when they came to disney parks for the rides and other things that most if not all guests do. Unless they get a lot of proper time or care to look and learn about smaller details and aspects which don't matter too much when it comes to just enjoying a ride since it's, well, a ride, they won't notice nor care. Also I called them disco pteranodons because they're stationary like the yeti over in everest- stationary for probably the rest of their lives unless disney and chapek don't start care about cutting corners and costs.
When my wife and I went to wdw for the first time (we are regulars at DL) our feelings - having no idea what to expect - could be summed up as: the pre-show for dinosaur was so good and it really excited us. We were like "this is going to be a really good ride" and the the experience itself was underwhelming. No specific themeing complaints. The countdown was too drawn out. The story was a bit cheesy. The ride's age was really showing in the animatronics. We concluded it must have been an excellent and thrilling ride when it came out, but that it needed a very large face-lift to live up to its exciting plot for this generation of Disney fans.
Hadnt ridden this for about 9 years, but just got back. Still my favorite ride at WDW. I do wonder if anyone has video of the old effect of the "Compsognathus" (These are the projected small dinosaurs on the ride that are supposed to be jumping over you) in my memory as a kid these were static figures jumping over you with flashing or strobing effects, that really hammered home the chaos the meteorites/meteor were inflicting on the world in those final seconds of the ride. The projected effect evokes less than nothing for me and i wonder if theres any evidence or remnants of the older effect. Amazing video, very happy to revisit it after riding again. Keep it up!
It appears that people who like Indiana Jones better than Dinosaur have extremely fond memories of that film franchise. It transports them back to a happy time when they first experienced the IP, the same way Star Wars works for older Star Wars fans. Dinosaur, however, is a more niche IP... so niche in fact that many riders are not even aware that the 2000 movie exists. And for people who "need" familiar IP to connect with a ride, that makes connection/enjoyment harder. My 22yo kid, for example, is bonkers crazygonuts in love with Dinosaur (the film) and thinks Dinosaur (the ride) is the best thing ever made at a Disney theme park. Just a theory, an observation, an opinion. Love these video essays! Thank you for this one.
As someone who cares little about IP implementation, I've realized it's difficult to relate to people who seek that out. I've always preferred original attractions and even consider Dinosaur to be one because despite the shoe-horned Aladar, it still seems to stand on its own. That's an interesting anecdote though.
I totally agree that Dinosaur is the better ride! It’s much more thrilling and feels more perilous. I go to WDW every few of years since I live in CA and just got to Disneyland but when I do go to WDW, every time I go on that ride for the first time in a while, the ending always gets me! I’ll never forget this ride photo we got when I looked genuinely terrified. It also helps that I was just one of those kids that loved dinosaurs
Haven't gone on Indiana Jones since I haven't been to the west coast but I will say Dinosaur is favorite indoor ride at Disney, even though it's consistently over-looked. I don't really know why, but it also stokes a little bit of anxiety in me because when you get into the dark zones, it's legit DARK. In a way, Dinosaur feels the most like a 'Universal' ride at Disney, even if it's still a bit kiddy. It's always a delight to go on
Dinosaur was one of those rides I always heard about from the travel channel and my friends when I couldn't go to Disney growing up. I remember being really jealous of a ride photo my friend had. I finally got to ride it this year and it was amazing! I went on Indie a few years ago and I think another advantage for me is that Dinosaur is a completely original ride concept and not IP. Probably that just makes me biased but I always love to see an original ride idea instead of something from a movie. It just reminds me of what I got so excited for hearing about Disney growing up. Also, I love your channel and look forward to seeing it blow up! I feel like you're fast on the track to at least 100k. This is such a refreshing theme park channel.
Honestly, from an objective perspective, the story on Dinosaur is better. However, I also prefer the "story" of Indy. I like that Indy doesn't have a voice-over through most of the ride--the sets are beautiful and immense, the special effects take my breath away, and I like to focus on them. For me, it makes the experience more real. Instead of being told a story, I'm experiencing the dangers of the Temple of Mara in real time. Dinosaur tells you what's going on, whereas Indy shows you and trusts the guests to put the pieces together. Those are the feelings I get from both experiences.
Two subtle neat parallels I've only realized watching this - in Indy you approach the face of Mara up a long corridor, then after the lightning tunnel and door, you approach the actual face of Mara through a long corridor in the same manner and by forced perspective each corridor looks similar even though the scale is different. Also in Dinosaur, it never clicked for me that the exit time portal is duplicated and likely is supposed to be the same one. When the vehicle leaves load you make a right and climb a incline (simulating acceleration). At the end you descend an incline (simulating deceleration) and make a left back to the loading platform. Two rooms at different ends of the track, but they are duplicated so it seems you've returned to the same place but going the other way a bit like how Mystic Manor's first and last scene are in the "same" (but different duplicate) room.
Indiana Jones is the better designed ride with more attention to detail and a wider variety of special effects that Imagineering is famous for. Classic attractions like Haunted Mansion and Pirates of the Caribbean come to mind in terms of design quality and special effects. Indiana Jones is also more widely accessible to the audience Walt intended when designing Disneyland and seems more consistent with his vision. Your video made me appreciate Dinosaur more and I would agree that it has the better storyline. It's also more cohesively themed to the land it's in. The scare element is also unique and makes it stand out from other Disney attractions, but is also what makes it vastly underappreciated. I think most of us can acknowledge the sad fact that both rides are more ambitious and creative than any dark ride Disney has since built for their domestic parks (excluding Rise of the Resistance).
I love both rides so much - both are at the top of my lists at each park! But I especially love the darkness of DINOSAUR because you can't see the track. It feels more like you're actually off-roading in a jungle, as opposed to Indy, where, if you're in the front of the car, you can literally see the flat path ahead of you. It kills some of the illusion, even as you bump around with hydraulics.
I prefer Indy because the two both achieve a thrilling experience in different way. The standout reason why I chose dinosaur is that it does not have that awesome themed quene. For instance I love exiting Indy at night walking through a temple, cave, and rainforest that is next to the jungle cruise
I might be misremembering, but Dinosaur is about the only pleasant memory I have from an early childhood visit to Disney parks as someone who is still scared to this day of dark rides of all types. I remember a much more relaxed experience, but maybe that's something else.
This attraction is a classic. I use to be scared of this attraction till I gotten older. The whole concept and even the land itself is wonderfully well themed and tells a great story of the land itself. The little details you see around the land or in the attraction itself.
WDW in my mind is a better fit for older kids. It is far more spread out, involves more walking, and a lot of the themes, particularly in Epcot, don’t appeal to younger kids. So having a scarier version of the keep ride might fit with the overall more adultness of WDW in my mind. That being said, the whole premise of Disneyland was a theme park that was not gross and junky and one that families could enjoy together. Walt didn’t intend to make just another Disneyland in Florida, but after he died, that is what it became. But part of what appeals about Dinoland is that it subverts some of your typical Disney theme park expectations. It is kind of faux-ghetto with it’s asphalt everywhere and intentional tackiness. But I think if you like what Disneyland is, Dinoland kind of throws you off. If you kind of hate what Disneyland is about, it might appeal more because it’s a subversion of that in a way.
Very inteligent discussion. Always thought dark rides were the ultimate atractions for story telling and immersion, and you perfectly illistrate that with both.
Great video. I really like both of these attractions, but have a preference for Indiana. My reason is that it feels more immersive and more of an adventure. Taking nothing away from Dinosaur of course, but Indiana feels more realistic in that it is something I could realistically do at some point. It's a way of having fantasy but could actually happen in some regard. There is a sense of realism to it that is actually very rare in theme park attractions. Of course the story itself is fantasy, but could I actually go to some of these lands that Indiana has travelled to and actually follow in some of these footsteps? Sure could. And that aspect makes it a bit more terrifying as it feels more "real" versus just a fantasy story. Now looking at Dinosaur - there is no way I could travel back in time so it is pure fantasy without any sense of being able to actually happen (at least not in my lifetime!). I fully agree with you on the story telling aspect of this attraction though. For sure it tells the story better and fits in well. I personally prefer the original name Countdown to Extinction. I think it was more fitting for the attraction and just fit in better with the overall Disney brand. The name Dinosaur just feels cheap and generic to me. I appreciate the sense of adventure and realism that Indiana provides and that is the biggest reason that I rank it higher.
I would say at their primes(Indy is in bad need of a deep refurb) Indy is the superior ride because of its use of different effects as an experience. Prior to its malfunction, the chamber of destiny’s effect of rotating its doors was a masterful technical effect that would make you believe there were 3 separate paths. Adding onto it now, the projection mapping of your gift is a great modern addition to the ride. Along with the boulder scene and the tricks used to make it really feel like it’s a near miss.Now there are places where things could be improved or added(the scene in the crystal skull version of the ride would be amazing, as there is one section of just darkness that’s wasted) but Those two scenes are the main reason at its peak why I’d say Indy is better. Although dinosaurs jungle is very well themed, and they do have great animatronic figures, there big technical effects(the chase scene) don’t compare to what Indy brought in its prime. But overall you made a compelling argument that made me really rethink and close the gap between the two rides!
Not gonna lie, the title of your vid triggered me lol. I still say Indiana Jones and the Temple of the Forbidden Eye is my preferred attraction, however I always rode Dinosaur several times each WDW visit because I always find it entertaining and not once have I ever thought it was poorly themed or lazy. I think I have a more nostalgic love for Indy than the film Dinosaur, which might be why I prefer Indy's ride, but I also think Dinosaur is a solid attraction!
Great video as always; I have nothing extra to offer to this conversation most of the points have been covered quite well by others in the comment section. Other than just to say for me when I rode both the Dinosaur at Disney's Animal Kingdom and The Indiana Jones Adventure at Disneyland there was no comparison (I had a great time) both of these rides are themed well to what your suppose to feel; they both make great use of the Enhanced Motion Vehicle system to tell their story. Now if they could just combine the speed of simulated slot car type dark ride attraction system used in Test Track and Radiator Springs Racers to the Disney's motion simulator mobility system use in Indiana Jones and Dinosaur Disney would have an amazing ride.
I definitely like your take on this video. I agree with so good and I also agree with you but here’s my take on it as well although not as long. Same ride vehicle, same track layout yes but the parameters given to work with are apples and oranges. Both are amazing rides and I love both. For Indy, imagineers are given a much smaller box of parameters to work with for Indiana jones IP and concepts. When they made the ride, they had to more or less stick with the script of what Indy is/was. For countdown to extinction I felt that they’re given way more creative freedom in every aspect since they are building from complete scratch from the ride itself to the whole park to integrate. Again both are great and I’ve always loved both. I agree with your opinion on use of darkness to heighten the use of the other senses. It’s great.
I have ridden in both attractions and I I much prefer Indiana Jones over dinosaur. What are things that really bothered me about dinosaur is that dinosaur just feels like an offbrand Jurassic Park. Which the film was trying to emulate back in the day. I know there are many differences between Jurassic Park and dinosaur. Still when I wrote the attraction I just got really too many Jurassic Park vibes. So much so that why would I want to write this attraction rather than something at universal. Another thing I hate universal. So in a Disney traction making me want to ride or a universal traction is blasphemous. The attention is straight out of a 90s TV show. I do have to admit the Q does a good job of explaining how old dinosaurs came to be was a little impressive but it was kind of ruined when I heard Bill Nye the science guy doing the narration. The preshow just feels corny, The actors make it feel like I’m on a school field trip to a fossil museum. Really what my issue is the preshow doesn’t take it seriously. So when the attraction starts it feels like we’re heading into a magic school bus a ride. Despite that the dark ride and how much it done is like you said dark. If they found someone a little more serious to do the narration and convey a much more serious tone. I think I would’ve liked this attraction. personally I think an update for this attraction would work wonders. Changing the motivations like instead of getting a whole dinosaur egg and just getting a sample instead would sound much more realistic and reasonable. Another thing updating the preshow with new actors with a note serious tone with Work to. There’s a directions not half bad, it just needs a more serious tone.
Agree. I like Dinosaur better. Just went this week. The darkness really left me feeling lost and was an opportunity to be shocked when a new dinosaur showed. It was a rougher ride which I'd expect in the dinosaur time. Appreciate the video
A year late, lol. But I think a major factor on which ride someone likes more is what they ride theme park rides for. We all do it for immersion, but some are more interested in the ride and its effects, and others prioritize story. As someone who enjoys video games I’ve seen this kind of phenomenon there as well. Some people play games for the gameplay and will skip all the dialogue cuz they don’t care, and then there are people like me who don’t enjoy a game pretty much at all if the story and characters aren’t interesting. I’ve never ridden Indy’s ride before (never been to Disneyland), so I can’t say which one I’d end up enjoying more, but I think Dinosaur is awesome! The story is unique, whereas Indy’s ride is your classic “ancient ruin cursed by a god/king and stuff happens.” Story seems pretty much exactly like the mummy ride from Universal Orlando. Also Dinosaur quite intense for a Disney ride, I didn’t know anything about it when I first rode it and as a result I ended up a little freaked out, lol. And the darkness is honestly quite necessary for the scary atmosphere, it’s a lot more anxiety-inducing when you know the Carnotaurus is coming but you don’t know when or where.
ive never been to disneyland so i cant really give my opinion on indy since i havent seen it in person but from videos it does look awesome... but i just have such a soft spot for dinosaur, it's one of my favorite disney rides [my favorite ride at animal kingdom... yes i like it A LOT more than flight of passage] i just love the thrill factor which i definitely agree the darkness adds to, the animatronics are amazing, and i LOVE that there's so much hidden lore to it that the average disney tourist wouldnt realize, i just love dinosaur so much
Indiana Jones is definitely in my top 5 best Theme park rides. However Disney really lessened the experience when they introduced fast pass. Holding the standby line outside the temple forces people to rush through the temple, missing the intricate themeing you originally slowly moved through and had plenty of time to take in. That also built the expectation of the ride which doesn't disappoint.
There was a time when people waited in line in the temple. But that won't happen again because of the fire code unfortunately...I asked a cast member about that. Too bad because alot is missed in the queue.
You make great points and overall I’ve always viewed the two as being fairly on or with each other, but I do give the edge to Indy. The queue is great and the detailed theming in the ride make it feel more epic and awe inspiring. The points you make for dinosaur like it’s story are where it excels over Indy and I do find Dinosaur to be more thrilling overall. But while the darkness does at tension with not seeing where you’re going it does make it feel less impressive too. Does feel like the ride had budget cuts like others mentioned. But it still excels at what it does as you said. Indy is helped by the the ring but I feel it gets hurt by it to in the areas that aren’t as strong. The blow dart room to me especially just feels so cheap to the rest of the ride with a black light painted wall instead of a fully realized set like the rest. Would love to see Dinosaur get some love and enhanced with a good refurb.
I think the only thing Indy has over Dino is that big room. It creates scale and excitement as you mentioned, but it also introduces an element of interaction as you see other ride vehicles and briefly "interact" with one across the bridge. Otherwise, I agree wholeheartedly. I love the Dino area of the park (even the roadside attraction section). The story starts long before you enter the queue.
Indiana Jones has a high level of mystique and fantasy. Its based on a fan favorite franchise that features a much more “fictional” setting. This gives the impression that there are strange paranormal forces at hand along with an odd sense of unpredictable surprise as you visually witness the various practical effects and experience the dozens of lines of dialogue spoken by Mara and Indy. then the actual setting itself exposes the rider to a cornucopia of different themes as they travel through the temple and are charmed by Indiana Jones many appearances, including reference to one of the most famous scenes in all of movie-dom (the falling rock scene).
Dinosaur features time travel, however aside from that, it’s much less fantastically themed (in that it’s based on real life and actual science. Unlike Indiana jones which is based in fiction and mystique) , we all know dinosaurs existed and we’ve seen them at other attractions like universals Jurassic park, and even your own standard run of the mill museums, which will sometimes feature life sized Dino’s and skeletons/somewhat immersive experiences like imax.
The comparison isn’t really fair because Indiana Jones is such a compelling setting to set a ride/attraction in, ESPECIALLY for a dark ride that takes its time vs something like a rollercoaster.
Dinosaurs aren’t particularly special, and although the DINOSAUR ride is one of my all time favorites, it’s reliance on aging dinosaur animatronics is certainly notable to anyone older than 12. Meanwhile Indiana Jones is much more of a timeless experience because of its varied setting/theming, reliance on visual AND physical effects (like the gusts of wind and hot fire), and it’s distinct lack of animatronics save for the excellent and briefly featured snake room and the charming exposures to Indiana Jones. I’m more willing to forgive his animatronic shortcomings because they come with dialogue and signature momentum (closing the door and scolding us, barely escaping the boulder, witty remark as we barely survived)
Definitely a bold stance for this video and I commend the points you made/laughed at your dejection of anecdotal “my kid thought it was too scary” criticisms. Again I find myself not completely agreeing with you and yet I enjoyed the video and found it to be thought provoking!
(Written on my phone please forgive the grammar mistakes)
You have a good argument with all solid points here. I slightly disagree that previous exposure to dinosaurs detracts from their impact in the ride, but I at least see how someone could view it that way. I felt that your argument was compelling enough, that I'm going to pin it in the comments for a bit.
@@PoseidonEntertainment thanks for taking the time to read this! Always nice to see a RUclipsr who reads the comments, especially one with as many subs as you!
You know what's fun about the Indy boulder scene? It's actually taken from Scrooge McDuck comics, the 1954 story "The Seven Cities of Cibola" to be precise. Look it up.
To me, your criticism seems to be based largely on personal preference -- essentially boiling down to "I like Indy more than I like dinos."
I, personally, see the attractions as pretty much equal; each with its own strengths and weaknesses, but prefer dinosaur simply bc I grew up with it and the Indiana Jones IP doesn't have much sentimental value to me.
With that in mind, I do agree with much of what you said. However, while its been a good 5ish years since I've been to Animal Kingdom, I feel that the dino animatronics have been aging pretty gracefully; thanks in part to the setting of the ride. These indoor dinos shrouded in darkness and fog have certainly faired much better than their broad-daylight counterparts in the river adventure at IoA.
Do you not like animatronics?
Frankly, I don’t like many rides that don’t have them. I couldn’t care less if they don’t look realistic, they are so different to anything else you see in real life, the ones on Dinosaur are wondrous.
I also don’t see what’s so different about the settings. Time travel and dinosaurs ARE fantasy for people in 2023, more so than Indiana Jones, who is a human.
I always hoped disney would knock down the rest of this land and keep dinosaur as a launch point to “the past”, and take guests to the age of the dinosaurs in an extremely immersive land. By making the worlds best dinosaur themed land , animal kingdom will really be cemented as one of the worlds best parks
The only reason that will never happen is because of Jurassic Park over at IOA which is less the an hour away. They had to keep their dinosaur area very different from Universals dinosaur area.
Except the ride takes you back to the present at the end...
@@CharlesReinmuth wouldn't be that hard to change
@@Fataliese They would have to change the preshow and some of the dialogue but that's it. Just change the story to you going back as a tourist but don't go far enough and at the end they save you and you are in the land.
It won't be super cheap but it won't be a lot either and that preshow looks very outdated anyways.
Yes, we need a pair of 50 ft tall life sized animatronic brachiosaurus eating leaves in this park!
My favorite part of this video
Karen: My kid was scared
Narrator: shut up, don't ride it then.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Same!!
god thats all you people care about. We know its your favorite part Frank, we can see your protruding brow ridge
for me, the darkness is exactly what makes dinosaur stand out more and more immersive. with indy you can clearly see the flat surface your vehicle is riding on for the entire duration of the ride
THIS. I just cannot wrap my head around being mad that the dark ride is actually dark
i’m actually surprised people like this more than indiana jones in California
People can feel when corners have been cut, even if they can't explain it. The theming of Dino Land wasn't a result of the storytelling, but a result of cost cutting and having to fit a story to it. Joe rohde didn't think to himself "hey let's make a roadside Attraction that was set up because of the institute." He was forced to try to come up with a story based around a cheaply themed land, due to cost cutting. The same goes for dinosaur. The darkness was a way to cut cost, making them have to fit a story to it. Luckily, Joe rohde can tell a cohesive story with sticks and a rock if he had to.
I agree that the cuts are apparent, though I still feel the theming of the land is excellent, if not full of untapped potential. I really like your last sentence though.
Yeah I suspect that the darkness was for budget reasons but they were smart enough to make it work.
I really do not understand the take about the darkness on the ride itself. Its a DARK ride and like he said in the video, it adds a lot to the attraction. The jurassic river aventure shows that dino animatronics + full lighting is a bad combo
To be fair Dinosaur probably has the best pre-show of any Disney ride
Also worth mentioning I believe is the fact that dinosaur kind of changed its intensity. People kept complaining about the scariness of the ride and thus I noticed between my trips in 2009 and 2012 that the volume was brought down on the carnotaurus and that in a couple of scenes the carnotaurus was pulled back physically from how close it would get to the ride vehicle. Dinosaur represents one of the best thrill rides not just in animal Kingdom but in the entire theme park and it's kind of sad that they pulled it back to a point where for those who have written at both times, it actually feels a bit boring now.
oh god i rode it as a teen and was terrified. This was coming from a horror movie fanatic but something about the carnotaurus just sprinting after you never knowing how close hed get next time in pitch black felt like you were right in the middle of a horror thriller. Had to do breathing exercises when i got off and the ~12 year old behind me broke down crying. Also the photo op with the pterodactyl was blinding oh my god. still feel like my eyes are recovering from that a decade later.
@@denisemcg9029 Alien Encounter was intense! Being locked down like that. The only thing I would have taken out of that (and stiches escape) was the bad breath intensity. Fear and the endorphin rush of relief is one thing, disgust is another. Instead of closing it down, I think it would have fit well in the old Hollywood studios as an actual "Alien" xenomorph. But oh well.
But back to Dinosaur, when I rode it in 2012, it still was intense for my wife (though slightly less) it seemed to just not make sense to me. Especially at the climax Carnotaurus encounter. It wasn't designed to be that far back and it was harder a to see it as well. The detail in feeling that warm humid dino breath is not as well appreciated and it deserves to be.
The attraction was definitely toned down in intensity, as I distinctly remember the one Cearadactylus would swoop down on the vehicle. However, the ride did get a significant upgrade in 2017 (I believe?) where a lot of the effects were restored and better lighting made it more exciting with little meteors falling everywhere.
@@PoseidonEntertainment my favorite scene was significantly toned down. The carnotaurus used to come out of nowhere and run along side the vehicle for a little bit. But now it seems like it runs for far less and lightning flashes/strobe effects nullify the impact of how good that effect actually was.
@@PoseidonEntertainment i heard they turned the terodactyl effect off because it was a safety hazard... i'm not a big fan of enhancing dark rides with screens but i dont mind it at all on dinosaur, the meteor effects really add to the urgency that you need to find the iguanadon in time, and the baby dinosaurs on the screens dont look nearly as bad as some of the effects in navi river journey
I love Dinosaur, first rode it as a kid shortly after they switched from the Countdown to Extinction theming (I remember at the time you could still buy CTX merchandise at the gift store) and I've never understood why it isn't a more highly regarded attraction. Then again, Disney doesn't do it many favors letting so many effects fall apart
I always preferred Dinosaur bc of the whole sci-fi/race against time aspect of the story so it just comes across as more exciting. I like how Dinosaur uses complete darkness more to its advantage specifically during the chase scene where a lot is left to your imagination and how the ride becomes darker and more intense as it progresses. It's also one of the rare Disney attractions along with Alien Encounter that is complete nightmare fuel and intentionally scary.
It's a weird hold-over from the Eisner era, and I think that's a large part of why I appreciate it. Today's Disney is too focused on the Kindergarten demographic, to their own detriment I think.
Both are good in my opinion. They both are rides that I wish Disney would work to build instead of screen based rides. They both have so many practical sets, my only grip being the skeleton blow dart scene in Indy is kinda lack luster. Reminds me of small time carnivals or amusement parks. Otherwise both shine as some of the best rides at the parks.
"who cares... shut up" had me rolling lmao
Having grown up on Temple and finally gotten out to Disneyworld to try Dino, I was extremely disappointed in how lacking I found the attraction. I think this video does a great job at showing Dino's strengths, but I also think it overplays their significance in the overall experience of the ride.
I'd like to break down the rides into a few categories and compare them.
Queue / outside theming
Indy has one of the best queues and themes in the Disneyland park, and it is extended into Adventureland in a general way - the entire land is themed to the same era, the jungle cruise boats and queue building have the same weathered look, etc. Dino takes it a step further, as noted in the video, by being a key part of the overall land's story. While ambitious, this effort fails to achieve its goals. The average guest, unfamiliar with the land's story and theme, fails to pick up on it. Thus the queue for Dino, while fitting well into the overall land, does not show and tell enough of the land's story to carry the day. Also, the immersiveness of Indy's queue far surpasses the immersiveness of Dino - when I walk into the temple, I feel like I'm in a temple, not a 3/4 mile walk to the edge of the park where the ride building is. Dino does makes me feel like I'm in a museum, so it's arguably equally successful there, but that is a lot less special of an experience.
Storytelling
The story of Indy is told through a fun pre-show video. Dino's pre-show was not as engaging for me; the characters were more flat and there was no aura of mystery that dealing with a magical deity granting gifts naturally generates. Right from the pre-show, Indy makes you wonder what gift you will get and if you will look into the eye or not. Dino just tells you you're going to be going to get a dinosaur and doesn't set up much mystery or anticipation there, aside from going along with breaking some rules.
Once you get on the ride, Indy's story is rather easy to follow - you looked into the eye, you are doomed, Indy saves you, and you have to escape the temple. It's not the most involved story, but it's easy to follow in a fast-paced and generally overwhelming ride. Dino sets you out to find a specific dinosaur with very little information given on how you are going to capture it or even locate it. You drive around for a bit and see some dinosaurs, get into some danger, suddenly find what you're looking for and the ride is over. In terms of plot points, Indy gives us premise, anticipation, twist, new objective, climax, and return to a station where an oblivious Sala "celebrates our arrival". Dino gives us a premise, a twist, some threat, and very quickly the resolution and ending. The plot pacing is front-loaded for Indy, but rear-loaded for Dino, which doesn't give the guests time to process what's going on during the ride.
Ride theming
Indy makes you feel like you're in an old temple. Dino makes you feel like you're in a prehistoric forest. Both themes are executed as well as they can be, but Indy is the more compelling theme. I've been in a forest a lot, but I've been in a temple ruins never. I agree with the video's point about the darkness being a tool used in the ride, but I think they could have added more light - even just headlights for the ride vehicle - to really help sell the forest a bit better. Both rides hit the theme they aim for, but I find Indy's theme more interesting.
Effects
Indy just has better effects. Projection effects on the doors and Mara statue, as well as the chamber of destiny changing for each of Mara's gifts. In the bridge room, Mara's laser eye hits various pieces of the temple and sets off small explosions. And last, the very best effect in any of the American parks, the boulder scene that is still 100% convincing even though I know everything about it. Dino competes with some animatronic dinosaurs and not much else. Dino had no moment where I was awed by what I was seeing - nothing made me wonder how they did an effect. I can see Dino getting a major refurb that really plusses the attraction - which is what Indy has gotten over the years - but as it currently is, there's just no competition.
The unique use of the ride vehicles should probably also go in this section. While the programming for the vehicles across both rides is basically the same, I argue that Indy uses the capabilities of the vehicles to a greater degree. Specifically, the section where you turn into the bridge room after being saved by Indy, the sudden reveal and pitch forward allows all passengers to have a few seconds to take in the room, and then the vehicle simulates bumping down some stairs (which Indy had previously warned about). And the boulder scene is aided by the vehicle tilting back and shaking as the boulder rolls forward, heightening the feeling of trying to reverse away. Dino's vehicle doesn't have either of these movements, and only simulates the general offroad and overbank turning, as far as I could tell.
Sound
Indy has a ride score that is based on the film scores. You hear classic refrains and the music is dynamic and builds tension, and is also specific to various parts of the ride. I don't specifically remember the music on Dino, but I assume there was some. I'm sure it did help set the mood and amplify parts of the ride, but I don't think it can compare to a score that draws from 3 action-adventure movies composed by John Williams.
So when you put that all together, from my view at least, there isn't a single thing that Dino does better than Indy aside from generally fitting into the land's theme better, and since the land's story is not well displayed, that can be hard to pick up on. I don't think Dino is a bad ride, but I also don't think it's anywhere near the same tier as Indy, a ride that is still holding its own against newer attractions like Rise of the Resistance.
Really good and thought out points here! I appreciate the time you took to articulate them. A quick note, but the only music on Dinosaur is at the very end. Otherwise it's just all audio related directly to the environment, dinosaurs and Seeker.
I think it is to simulate being in a Indiana jones movie, not just being in a temple.
…I have been insisting for more than a decade that Dinosaur is one of the best rides in the world and people think I’m fucking insane as a result. You are my new hero ✌️
Dinosaur is always a must do for me. The darkness enhances the experience and without having one big showroom, it helps keep the surprises in store, whereas when you see the riders in front of you in Indy, it makes your experience feel less special since in Dinosaur, the narrative implies the people in front of you are doing the standard tour in the Early Cretaceous and YOU and YOUR GROUP are going on this secret mission whereas in Indy, everyone is going through the exact same adventure you are. It’s the Verisimilitude of the attractions that Dinosaur keeps intact MOSTLY depending on the spacing of the vehicles, whereas Indy compromises right out of the gate.
Dinosaur is narrative driven, I agree. But it works in the same way Jaws works. You don’t see the shark 90% of the time but when it shows up, it’s surprising. Same with Dinosaur, you don’t see a lot but that adds to the atmosphere where you don’t know what’s gonna happen next, at any moment a dinosaur can show up from the darkness, you can take a turn you didn’t expect to take, or the ultimate horror when the bumpiness knocks your phone out of your pocket in the middle of the ride and the Dino Institute amounts a mission to retrieve it due to not being able to contact family who could be anywhere in the whole resort without it. (Kudos to those cast members btw).
Indy is still a great ride but it works in completely different ways than Dinosaur does.
The Jaws comparison is really solid. I wish I had thought of that.
Thank you for theming your loss of phone with the rest of your comment. It brings me joy
Even though Dinosaur tells a much better story, and the end of the day, Indy is more fun for a lot of people. I think that’s why they can’t explain it, because you’re 100% right with this video essay.
Indy’s theme, I think, is more chaotic danger. There’s no depth to it. Dinosaur has character development with Dr. Seeker, and uses darkness to tell a linear story.
But Indy is more fun lolol (to me, at least)
Fair enough. I've never considered Dinosaur "not fun" but I can see why a lot of other people might.
I went to animal kingdom for the first time earlier this year and loved Dinosaur. It felt much more thrilling than indiana Jones and was actually kind of scary.
I like to compare it to a HHN house on wheels. Perhaps not as intense, but still relatively close.
That is a good comparison, I can definitely see it as a haunted house type ride
For me, Dinosaur is one of the top 15 attractions at WDW. I have no idea why it gets overlooked. I prefer it over Space Mountain, Soarin, Mission:Space, Test Track, and Toy Story Mania, to name a few. I’m not sure if I like it better than Indy but good video.
DinoLand is the only reason I like going to Walt Disney World in the first place. That and T-rex Cafe.
Thanks, I appreciate the support!
The comment by So Good sums up a lot of my feelings on the two that I can't put into words well but to add some of my personal opinions, I will admit that I'm biased towards Indy. As an autistic kid, my special interest for YEARS was Indiana Jones, I wore his hat all the time and would dress up like him as much as I could. The ride holds a very very special place in my heart because of this. Aside from that though, I think the musical score for the ride emphasizes all of the narrative beats, the cue when you see the bridge still gives me shivers. Dinosaur is great and I agree with your points tbh but the reliance on strobe lighting makes for a poor sensory experience as someone who is sensitive to those things.
My reasoning for why I like Indy over Dinosaur are biased but I acknowledge both of their successes and failures openly
Dinosaur is an amazing ride. Definitely one of my favorites. I love Dinoland USA, but I do think it needs a revamp. As a geologist, I must say that the land should be replaced as an entire paleontology land. Paleontology isn’t just dinosaurs. We have Millions upon millions of years of complex life they could cover. Lots of animals that could receive the spotlight!
That's an amazing idea, but I think such a concept should be for an entire new park. If it's in one land, it may feel too cramped.
@@CaptainCretaceous91 that’s true. Could be awesome. I would love it if Disney opened up a Paleo park. Completely focused on earth’s past and geology!
@@athertonmilford3138 Sounds awesome. I wouldn't say no to something like a land where certain prehistoric creatures survived extinction either.
@@CaptainCretaceous91 oh my goodness I’m having so many ideas. each Part of the park could cover a mass extinction event. The last one being… US!
I’ll never forget the time I thought I was going into a living with the land type ride and wound up in dinosaur. I was underwhelmed. The building looked like an escape from the heat and I kind of just laughed off the name. I didn’t think I’d be on an intense thrill ride. It took me 3 uncomfortable rides to understand the story. Unlike Indiana Jones where I’m immersed from the moment I enter the queue. To me, there’s no comparison between Indiana Jones and dinosaur. Dinosaur feels too intense and outdated as Indiana Jones stands the rest of time and remains a ride I want to go on again. Dinosaur land leans hard on a nerve of mine and I’m not sure if it’s because of how lazy the theming is in comparison to pandora.
@Frederick Shull i agree with loving the Indiana Jones stunt show the most out of everything. I would like to see an update for dinosaur. I personally don’t like to compare the two rides but I would enjoy the ride better if the queue was more immersive like Indiana Jones, the ride itself less bumpy (I don’t mind intense but I don’t want to feel jostled around like I do), and possibly more theming within the ride. I know that universal’s Jurassic park ride went through multiple refurbishments before we got the amazing ride of our time and it was still a good ride of its time before the refurbs. I don’t want to see dinosaur go but I also don’t like it in this state. I would like to see dinosaur land go or at least get the theming it deserves.
@@patsysolatzzo2962 I would say Jurassic Park is extremely lazy. I’ve said this before in other posts, but I think that land is a huge missed opportunity. It should be great, but it’s not.
I would like to see Disney build a much larger scale dinosaur area with other good attractions. Disney has a long history with dinosaurs and I’m sorry the universe of energy no longer exists with all of its amazing animatronic dinosaurs
The dinosaur movie sucks as well so I don't understand saying it's a better story than Indiana Jones...
Those people should watch Indiana Jones, they're great films
@Frederick Shull never met someone who liked that movie lol.
I agree the computer animation was special but toy story came out far before, and I never thought the story of dinosaur was good lol
Raiders of the lost ark however is a MASTERPIECE of a film
@@Courier_333 you are missing the point. It’s about the stories behind the rides. They are both loosely based on the films. Why are you, the rider, a part of the story now? That’s what it is about
I honestly can't agree with the conclusion; I grew up an absolute dinosaur nut *and* an Indiana Jones fan, but I can only speak to how I felt exiting each ride, and for me I felt pure exhilaration after experiencing Indy for the first time in 2017, while Dinosaur kind of leaves me feeling like it's fun, but not breathtaking. I appreciate its cohesion with Dinoland USA as a whole, but Indy was one of the last times I got to experience a Disney attraction for the first time and walk off feeling blown away, a feeling I didn't even get from Flight of Passage after going on it in 2019.
3:37 the poll ceiling interactive element has been repaired and re activated for guest recently :)
I thought it seemed like it was working from the video... I just wasn't familiar enough with it to know if that's what it was supposed to do.
I swear there used to be another lighted scene that has been dark for years. Maybe I'm wrong, but I swear the ride is much darker than in the beginning.
The Indians Jones Ride cast members still give out the cards with the encryption keys on them.
Interesting, I kept seeing articles saying that they had stopped. That's good a suppose.
I prefer Indy because it has much more impressive special effects from flamethrowers to moving walls to consistently fluid and impressive animatronics, making the ride feel more immersive and impressive than the alternative. Plus the musical score that plays throughout the entire ride synced up to whatever room or set piece you’re going through makes for a more exhilarating attraction compared to having sounds of roars, talking, and jeep noises playing throughout the ride.
I definitely think the dark part of the Indie ride should be renewed to something better, and change the dart skeletons into physical objects, or at least screens
Theming.
While you are right to point out that tying the theming to a land is very important, there is a problem. The 2 main metrics I use for judging theming are:
1) Does the themeing feel believable for the sort of location we are?
2) How far from present day reality is that theming?
Yes, the theming is well done, consistent, and carries across the land. But what is that theming? Institutes that studied Dinosaurs, and the road side attraction that popped up with it. That's a poor score for Metric number 2. Sure it's easy to be consistent when all the props look like actual equipment people use.
Indy's theming is that pulp science-y 1930's grungy adventure camp. Transporting us nearly 100 years into the past, we have rusty generators that can barely power all the lights, The Slide Show and Dateline News Broadcast feel appropriate to the theme. the traps in the queue remind us that likely weeks ago, this dungeon was really dangerous, and people may have gotten hurt. Choosing to continue into the depths of the Temple takes more courage.
While the themeing for the time travel institute is much more sterile, and muesum-esque. If their attraction of the time travel cars just wasn't working today, there wouldn't have been any mortal danger. The Queue itself presents whiplash, because unlike say Extra-TERROR-estrial Encounter, the preshow didn't do a solid enough job of really communicating to us, "There will be danger, people already have not come back alive. I wouldn't feel bad if you turned back now."
And really, as a whole DinoLand doesn't really fit in with Animal Kingdom. The Other lands Asia and Africa certainly are much more about immersion into these areas. But what we have there now? It's pathetic. It feels cheaply made to justify having Dinosaurs here.
If they really wanted to theme the land, They would have made the entrance the super science-y area where they opened a portal into the past, and concentrated their food and souvenirs by the entrance as a sort of "Base Camp" And then the rest of the land was largely over grown wild plants, and rough Signage and railings to determine where to go. Parts of the Sidewalks should have large areas with large rocks and fallen trees, making even walking around the land appear to feel wild and hostile. Cast Members should be kitted out for survival, with large rucksacks, flare guns, walkie talkies etc.
The Attraction then could have been similar then, an expedition searching for this dinosaur to capture and catalog, and this fueling depot outpost is the last human device you will see, after that it's all wild.
If Indy's theming was the 1930's, Dinosaur's theming should have been the ancient past. and it was, but only when you were on the attraction.
The Darkness.
This is a huge bit for me though.
One of the Highlights in my opinion with Indy is that large room where you see all the danger around you. There is enough light to see there are other people out there, and everywhere you look something dangerous wants to kill you. We only entered this area for our own selfish reasons, now we may well receive our eternal reward for our greed.
While the story of Dinosaur is similarly life threatening, we weren't exactly promised that before hand, the danger and thrill comes later, as a happenstance. In an alternate universe, all these random animals weren't there, and we performed an extraction of the Iquanadon without any fuss. If only we'd brought guns with us, we might not be in such peril.
But the Temple in Indy isn't something we can just shoot our way out of the problem. At best that would save us from the giant cobra, but the lasers, lava, rumbling bridge, insects, mice , dart trap boulder trap and whatever was behind that door Indy sealed can't be survived by shooting at them.
But Dinosaur the way they chose to go couldn't do the same thing. Because they wanted to tie most of the peril to the Carnisaurus, It had to appear and have places it could leap out and surprise you with. Thus they added the Darkness to the attraction. Yes it served it's role in making a tighter story that felt more individual, but it didn't really suit the building or layout the way it did for Indy, with the wide open space to see your peril.
If Dinosaur wanted to be a more individual attraction, the layout and construction of the areas could have been developed to allow those to happen. But they tried to retrofit that type of experience into the incorrectly proportioned Indy Ride.
In My Blue sky version of the attraction, since there isn't this ticking clock element of the meteor, I would design the attraction lighting to follow what's happening Astronomically outside. If it's day time, the attraction is brightly lit like the day, if it's sunset, the colors shift to warm hues. and at night it's all dark purples and blues, with starlight. That would literally theme it to the land outside, and offer some different feelings when riding the attraction at different times. You could still build the final showdown with the carnicourous in a Cave, so it's still dark to perform all the complicated movements the room needs.
14:57 the ride still pulls around 60 minutes. When it opened it was around 90 min. The difference is that the ride queue changed to stack those in line outside the temple and to clear people to go in when the queue starts up again in the central area by the well and projector room. I think this was because guests kept complaining about claustrophobia and some people got panic attacks. I remember people got really uneasy in line when the ride first opened and it was sponsored by AT&T and they gave out the translator cards.
I absolutely get what you're saying about the idea of using darkness to give feelings of chaos, but I also feel you may be giving the original design a little too much credit. I think much of the darkness was more a result of tight budgets to get the project to completion. In addition, I think the Dinosaur story has degraded a bit over the years due to elements being permanently shut off. While efforts have certainly been made to upgrade or replace those broken elements, there are still just awkward moments of narrative pause. Now, Indy has those too, especially the rat scene. There are a lot of very subtle hidden details in Dinosaur that honestly make it a great story, but like Indy nowadays, Guests have even less time to pick up on them to put together the narrative story. I think overall Dinosaur is great, it's fun, its exhilarating, but as a narrative it just feels a bit disjointed and the excess of dark moments with nothing to see are just a tad bit unnecessary. It's clear that in the world we travel to in Dinosaur there is light, you can see it in the vistas near the beginning of the ride, yet near the end there's just pure darkness, which isn't realistic at all, there should be at least something visible to give the eye something to reference. A few pieces of foliage here and there would do wonders. I've had the opportunity to walk the Dinosaur track with lights on, there's just nothing there in so much of the building. Indy always has something to see, and in the moments it doesn't, it makes sense. It also combines elements of a cherished movie franchise which instantly will rate it higher for riders purely out of nostalgia. Everyone wants to be a part of an Indiana Jones adventure, not everyone could picture themselves time traveling to the end of the Dinosaurs for...reasons? That subconscious by-in surely plays a role as well. Overall, I think Indy has a stronger narrative, even if it's hard to pick up on it with the lack of queue time, it also has a stronger visual presence, and for me (not necessarily everyone will think this way) it looks more complete. Dinosaur is fun, but to me it looks like the victim of slashed budgets, not necessarily a psychological mind trip.
I know that Dinoland made the cut in opposition to Beastly Kingdom, but I never thought of the darkness in terms of budget cuts. That very well may be true, but the dark portions always seemed to be taking maximum advantage of the motion capabitilies of the EMVs, and so it still seems like a very intentional design choice to me. Do you know if the budget cuts are documented, or is it just a community assumption?
@@PoseidonEntertainment I definitely don't have documentation as there's definitely no way aside from Imagineers' reminiscing that it would come out from Disney, but I base it on a few elements I've seen and heard that have been cut as well as extrapolation from the attraction as a whole. It's pretty well established there was supposed to be an effect at the end of the attraction showing the Iguanodon on your rover that had to be cut, and the odd mix of scenes that are well lit vs complete darkness just have a thematic clash. Now, I don't think there's a single Disney attraction out there that didn't have to make budget cuts from the blue-sky phase. That's just reality. Even Indy has some pretty solid signs of shortcuts taken to save money that were remedied with Tokyo's budgets in the latter iteration. With Dinosaur I think it just becomes so much more apparent as there are just extended times where there's just literally nothing to see. There's a dinosaur with a head and no body, covered by what looks to be Christmas lights hanging from curtains. Supposedly you're driving over it's tail, but there's no tail to see. Even a painted body would be an improvement over the magical floating head. At times too you see the other rovers in the building, namely directly before you're attacked by a now-stationary pterodactyl. This kinda kills the narrative that you're the only rover going on Seeker's mission. But that kills the narrative a bit on Indy too. I agree that darkness and sound can create foreboding, and Dinosaur does it well, but even just some landscaping or hints at the thickness of a jungle would do wonders to reinforce the narrative. It's so close to being what you don't see makes the story stronger, but having ridden this thing more times than I can count, to me it comes across as more "we couldn't afford to show you more, so focus on these select things". I feel this runs in direct conflict to Disney's typical and timeless storytelling. Even when there's nothing to see, there's still something to see. The magic is in the details, and for Dinosaur, there's just a lot of dead space. Again though, I have to reiterate, it is an extremely fun attraction, but if I don't make it on, I don't feel disappointed in the same way I would if I missed Indy. Call it nostalgia, I think that would be fair, but overall I think Indy does more to take me out of the park and into a "authentic" experience.
Good points! I've only ridden Dinosaur once, but I think you might be right to say it is a better thematic dark ride/narrative attraction than Indy for the reasons you covered in your video.
I would argue that Indy is a better ride for the "wow-factor", because it seems like it has more successful (EDIT: and creative) practical effects in the boulder scene and the chamber opening scene that just make you wonder "how did they do that?!" Those two alone, especially after the projection mapping update, are standouts that I believe elevate it ever so slightly above Dinosaur for most folks. I have only ridden it once, but I can't really recall any real effects that weren't clever positioning/delayed reveals of animatronics which don't have the same "woah" factor as say the boulder tunnel from Indy.
Great video! Really enjoying your efforts and video essays!
EDIT: Oh, and I forgot the "big giant temple room reveal" as another "wow-factor" moment; you really feel like you're in a mysterious temple from the movies. I don't recall Dinosaur having anything like that huge room reveal, so it feels much closer to one of the classic Fantasyland dark rides but with the EMV's dynamic movements to move your between set pieces, which may be why I don't feel as "impressed" by Dinosaur after riding it.
I think you have a solid argument here. I didn't really take that "wow factor" into consideration, but I've also become desensitized to things like that. Now that you say it though, I definitely take your point.
I think Indy is better simply because I like Indiana Jones more than dinosaurs.
Can't dispute that especially considering the musical theme component of both. Love me some Mr. John Williams!
I thought I was the only one that held this opinion. Thanks for reassuring me that I am both fully sane AND objectively correct
Well, I wouldn't claim objectivity. I just feel that the more linear narrative of Dinosaur gives it a stronger edge, though I can see where people would disagree and they wouldn't be wrong.
Honestly, my favorite thing about Dinosaur - and I know it's based on a movie (that I know nothing about) so that's probably why - is that they didn't pick obvious super-cliche dinosaurs for the plot, like "oh, we need to save a triceratops and there's a T. rex coming after us" or something like that. It looks like they did real research
Mega underrated ride. It's a shame that it's in likely the most obscure corner of the park
I never knew people disliked Dinosaur; I've always considered it one of my favorite Disney rides. It wasn't too intense for me when I was 9, but I guess all kids are different. Narrative cohesion between scenes and the use of darkness to trick your senses and prompt your imagination are utilized well, and you can't claim the ride is short on animatronics despite those bouts in the darkness, so I've always considered it a well-executed experience. I've never been on Indiana Jones though, so it's hard for me to compare the two.
Dinosaur is my son's favorite ride. Last time we went he had us go on 4 times in a row. I really got an opportunity to notice small details and appreciate the imagineering that went into it's creation. Thanks for the great analysis on your video!
Thank you for standing up for DINOSAUR, it was my favorite ride on our visit five summers ago and I feel sad when people put it down.
One note about Indy's wall glyphs: I think they contribute to the theming about as well now as they did when people could easily decode them, albeit in a different way.
I went on Indy as a kid when the cards were still being given out, and I remember enjoying the decoding process with my friends as I stood in (to me) the world's longest line. It got to the point where we'd read the card so many times that we could read the last few inscriptions more or less unaided, which made us feel like we were in the story.
However, I've also ridden Indy as an adult with no glyph card, and when I took a younger relative on the ride, I noticed something in her reaction to the queue: the glyphs were now something to stare at and puzzle over even when the line was short. Seen through her eyes, the glyphs became a mystery to be solved. The idea of lost civilizations and forgotten languages is part of the Indy vibe, too, and now there's a forgotten language right in front of you. She asked me if I knew what the inscriptions said, and I admitted I only knew a few letters, so I could pick out words like "Mara" but not read the whole thing anymore. I honestly think that made the experience more exciting for both of us, especially since most of the messages I remembered were things like "do not look into the eyes of Mara", which the pre-show covered anyway.
I miss the days when the ceiling moved, though. That was brilliant and a great way to amuse kids in line.
(I've never ridden Dinosaur and have no opinion on its relative quality.)
I get what you’re saying about the darkness of dinasaur. The issue there though is that the ride is TOO dark, and the lighting dosen’t compensate for that darkness as well as it should.
The time travel tunnels are clearly designed to adjust the eyes to the darkness from the well lit institute, but fail in this regard due to the extreme lack of light in the main attraction. As such, the shift is jarring and by the time your eyes have properly adjusted, the ride’s almost over.
The ride sadly wasn’t designed with human eye adjustment in mind and suffers for it, while Indy has decent enough lighting and design to remain coherent.
I can't say that I've ever had issues with the light levels, but I can see how it would detract from the experience.
@@PoseidonEntertainment
On my last visit it felt toooo dark. Beyond narrative.
My guess is they aren't investing in it because it's days are numbered.
If Dr. Seeker looks familiar, it's because he played Hodges on CSI
This makes the ride better
I've never watched CSI, but I can see why people like to connect pre-show actors to media.
There's 3 main reasons why I like Indy more than Dinosaur. Reason 1 is that I don't like the darkness on the ride. I have to agree with the people that say it feels like a crutch. Even though I understand the purpose of it, it breaks the immersion for me a lot and just feels rushed. Reason 2 is that at least when I rode it Dinosaur was unnecessarily loud. Like ear splittingly, painfully loud when it really had no reason to be. That might have just been the one time I rode it back in 2012, but it hindered the experience to have me covering my ears the whole ride. And before anyone says anything, every other ride I did was fine volume wise. Rock n Roller Coaster, Tower of Terror, Everest, etc. But Dinosaur was just too darn loud. And reason 3. The hand holding. The entire ride you have Dr. Seeker yammering away and telling you what's happening. Not only is it extremely obnoxious but goes in the way of the show don't tell experience that the queue has. Whereas on Indiana Jones, sure Indy pops up to steer you in the right direction or help you get past certain obstacles but the rest of the ride, you're on your own. It feels more like your own adventure where Dinosaur feels like it holds your hand through and makes sure to explain everything that's happening. Another point for Indy also is the music. Which is why I like the temple of the forbidden eye more than even the Tokyo counterpart. It makes it all feel like a movie that's happening around you. At times it can make things more tense and at times it feels like it's cheering you on as you venture through the temple. But on Dinosaur there really is no music, and while that's more realistic sure it makes the ride feel empty in an unintended way.
BINGO! The musical component is extremely important even on Main Street USA.
@@libertarian1178 to me the music isn't a deal breaker but a cherry on top. If you watch the Tokyo Version of Indiana Jones, from the bridge all the way up until you leave that big room there's no music. Just eery sounds and engine noises. To me that subtracts greatly from the experience and makes me prefer the California version despite all of it's flaws.
Good points! I appreciate when people take time and effort to argue their point of view.
@@PoseidonEntertainment well, Indiana Jones is my favorite ride of all time that isn't a roller coaster. So I've thought long and hard about why I love it so much
Ok UPDATE: I have now ridden it again and the recent refurb they did fixed a lot of my issues with the ride. I don't think it's better than indiana jones, but on my recent trip I really got to like it for what it is. I think my loudness issue was because of my height? Like I was just tall enough to have the speaker blaring right in my face. The darkness issue has been fixed but oddly enough it created a different issue which is seeing the mechanisms running the dinosaurs just as much AS the dinosaurs. Dr. Seeker still needs to STFU, and a soundtrack would be nice as well. The only other issue I have with it is really minor, but what are those pterodactyls? They look like 70s Halloween decorations and REALLY stick out in a bad way with how all the other dinosaurs look great
Darkness is one thing, but when the ride is *so dark* that you can't even see anything but a handful of theming elements, it really results in a lackluster experience. The low-light POV used here shows waaaaaaaaay more detail than I've ever actually seen when riding the attraction.
Overall, when you compare Dinosaur to Indy, there's really no comparison at all.
Dinosaur:
Lots of darkness
Seeker says some stuff
Computer calls out a random dinosaur species
You see that dino animatronic as the one lit thing amidst a sea of darkness
Repeat until the ride ends
Indy:
Lots of highly-varied, well-lit scenes
Multi-faceted effects, including actual fire effects, lasers, use of vehicle lights/projection effects, air puffs, etc.
Great musical score
Narration that's actually interesting
Well-implemented connection to beloved film franchise
And just everything about the theming is just so much better, from the queue to the temple facade and how it works in the park, to the preshow, etc.
Maybe Dinosaur was actually good at some point when it was better lit and they had more of the effects working. But it's just so dated now, in a very neglected corner of an underwhelming park. Indy is timeless and has aged really well. It's a must-do on any Disneyland visit. But Dinosaur is entirely skippable. I simply can't agree with your stance on the matter. (But A+ at driving engagement by throwing out controversial hot takes.)
Dinosaur needs music like crazy. Music can emotionally attach us to memories faster than any plain dialogue.
The vocal capabilities of the Carnotaurus is a soundtrack in itself
Darkness as themeing is kind of like the parking lot Dino land theme. They got the theme down but it's not a compelling theme.
What Indiana Jones does well is taking us through iconic Indiana Jones themes like the rolling rock, darts being shot , snakes and the lure of supernatural treasures.
With Dinosaur the story wasn't as compelling and I came off the ride being annoyed by the strobe lights and how loud it was.
I’ve always thought this. At the same time, I hate that so many people argue that one should replace the other on either coast. The world is better with both attractions. That being said, Dinosaur might be my favorite attraction at Walt Disney World. Indy might be in the top 10 at Disneyland.
It’s like Disney watches this channel and is like “oh this guy likes this attraction? Let’s get rid of it” lol
People tend to prefer whichever ride they did first. The plots are super similar: find dino/indy then escape to safety. Arguing that dino has a better plot is baffling. I prefer Indy because the big giant room is awesome. And I feel that there are distinct sections: Eye of mara -> big room and surrounding chambers -> cramped spaces and boulder -> safety! Dino is just "drive around in dark, see dinos" with no difference in the type of room or type of thrill.
I can't find any discernible point in Indy's narrative where the guests must find Indy? It appears that he just happens to be there to the best of my knowledge.
@@PoseidonEntertainment I believe there is a journal or something in Indy's office that explains that Sallah has begrudgingly taken over handling "the tourists" while Indy explores the temple, and he's been gone longer than expected, but our jeep tour was not actually intended to be a rescue mission.
I prefer Indiana Jones. I think the story and setting is more engaging, feels like I just stepped into an Indiana Jones adventure whereas Dinosaur kinda feels like it didn't have Disney's full attention
I'm not sure that I understand. Dinosaur feels incomplete?
@@PoseidonEntertainment Like lots of blank, dark areas with not a lot of activity
Another opinion I fully stand by! I absolutely LOVE Dinosaur, and it definitely doesn’t get as much credit as it should sadly, but I’m glad your shining a light on it with your vid :)
Btw, will we be expecting a Galactic Starcruiser video essay soon? Or closer to when it opens?
I wasn't really planning on it because I wanted to wait until media got full access. However, I had a midnight idea yesterday and started rolling it into a different script, focusing on the failure of Disney's marketing and PR recently. Probably not the best vid, but people really want to see my talk about it, so why not?
Simple answer: cuz it has dinosaurs and dinosaurs are freak'n awesome!
I think one big negative of Indiana Jones that you forgot is that how much of the ride today is broken down and how many of the original affects aren't on anymore. Such as the laser eye beam being lackluster, the timing of the darts and their accompanying airbursts being off, the giant cobra no longer moving, and the original ice/fog machines breaking down due to lack of maintenance. The Indiana Jones ride we have today is worse than it was on opening day. I haven't been to Animal Kingdom in quite some time but it seems as if Dinosaur has been maintained better than Indy. Still love both rides though!
Referring back to the point about onboard character audio versus audio coming from the set, there is definitely no competition as to which audio is easier to hear and interpret. However, the impression I got when riding Dinosaur was that the audio was too clean and polished, and sounded more scripted than audio coming from a scene, losing some sense of immersion. On the contrary, the audio coming from the set is harder to interpret but sounds as if the dialogue was made up on the fly by the character standing there, not prerecorded in a studio. In addition, your ears can pinpoint exactly where the audio is coming from, providing further reason that there is an actual person standing there experiencing the story alongside your vehicle, rather than an audio clip from within your vehicle.
😎👍 I liked both rides but the original Count Down to Extinction was more immersive and intense with original effects.
I really wish Universal could have used this ride system for Kong: Skull Island for either a Jurassic Park Ride (like Dinosaur) or Kong ride. The Kong queue is already amazing and quite similar to Indiana Jones. It's a shame it was wasted on a copy/paste of the Backlot Tour with an impressive animatronic.
I thought the spiked ceiling in the queue is just another effect that took too much maintenance and was left unworking, not turned off because it was too scary.
Someone else replied and pointed out that this effect was working again. I believe I just read the wrong information.
Not only has the intensity of the ride been toned down, but the effects and animatronics have aged horribly or have been turned off entirely. For Indy, the amazing set design tends to help make up for aging elements, but Dino is really all about those effects and animatronics. They've been neglected and left to rot, so the entire ride experience suffers greatly as a result.
I knew I wasn't the only who thought this ride was better. Thank goodness there's someone not afraid to show there opinion on this ride.
It's a classic
I’d wager that the main reason why so many people dislike Dinosaur is bc they might have gone to Disney World for a while not realizing the story behind Dinoland USA & why it’s intentionally kitschy & campy. Now that I know the story, I’ve come to appreciate it a lot more now for what it is even tho my first time visiting the parks was in the late 90s.
I definitely agree. Most people don't pick up on the stories that the lands around Animal Kingdom are telling and miss some fundamental aspects of what makes the park so great.
It's a shame Disney hasn't done anything significant with this ride/area for so long. They could re-theme area with surviving Mesozoic plant, update the ride and make it nice'n scary again, and maybe add a new slow ride; a ride that takes you through evolutionary history with all the creatures and environments based on the latest data and brought to life by animatronics, CGI screens, projection mapping to good 'ol static props and amazing murals. That would really distinguish everything for Universal's JP, too.
For some reason you list the darkness in Dinosaur as a positive. That you think it's deliberately done, but it's way too much. Indiana Jones is gorgeous and they want you to see everything. Dinosaur is all about taking short cuts and hiding. It feels like you are in a cave, which makes no sense. Indiana Jones, which is in a cave, still let's you see everything.
I like Indiana Jones more because I like the grand room with Mara’s ruined face, and how you weave in and out of that room. I look in awe over the spectacle of scope of it all, and how it feels chaotic. Dinosaur, especially due in part to its parts with darkness, make it feel more cramped and less going on other than “that’s not our Dino”, “that’s not our Dino”, “that’s DEFINITELY not our Dino”, the end. Also, this might seem like poor criticism, but the countdown to extinction in Dinosaur reminds me that the ride is ending. With all of that being said, the points brought up in the video are valid.
As someone who rode Indiana Jones, I always expected that the ending of this ride would be a giant "meteor" hurling directly at you which you avoided using the same trick mechanism that you see with the boulder at the end of Indiana Jones. I think ending it with a dinosaur head ala "Jurassic Park the Ride" was a mistake. The ride would be a lot more impactful with a big, bright meteor set piece at the end.
Think about it! Instead of all that darkness you could have the brilliant light of a meteor.
The original climax to Count Down To Extinction WAS a meteor hurling towards you before everything blacks out immediately followed by an explosion back to the Time Travel Lab.
As you said, each of these two rides are fantastic, and Dinosaur does get hate it doesn’t deserve. However, I enjoy Indie more because of the spectacle. When I go to a Disney park, I want to see something ambitious and something I can’t see anywhere else. While Dinosaur has a fantastic story, the spectacle of it isn’t anywhere near Indie’s in my opinion. A fully themed temple with tons of different intricate effects is much more impressive than some animatronic Dinos in the grass. The story brings Dinosaur up a little, but when I think about Dinosaur, I just think about the ending. When I think about Indie, I can name pretty much every scene in it because each has a spectacular effect. And that’s with me having gone to World more times than Land. So for me, the spectacle and theming make Indie better than Dinosaur, however from a storytelling perspective, I accept that Dinosaur is better.
One of my favorite scenes in any attraction is the moment in Indy when you pull into the temple room with the lasers and pyrotechnics. It takes my breath away every time. Indy is beautiful spectacle all the way.
Although I do love Dinoland .U.S.A, I prefer Indy because of it's more cohesive storyline and world building. And Dinosaur has some plot holes, for example we never find out how we time travel back in time. We're just put through a "time travel machine tunnel"
You make a well rounded argument. That being said, I think Dinosaurs lack of maintenance/disrepair takes away from the experience. The last time we rode it it really was “Dark - The Attraction” because hardly anything was working.
I think the main problem is that Dinosaur kind of fails to fully immerse people with it's theming. Sure, it's really well done with the the points you've made, but honestly, most guests don't care about this sort of stuff sadly, nor won't get it. They just want to have simple and fast, exhilarating fun on indy, not be overwhelmed, confused, and possbily freightened on Dinosaur.
From the start of indy's queue, you can believe all of this stuff is real, because, well, it is! Though, of course, that's not even a remotely fair comparison though, considering the budget cuts they needed to take for dinoland USA.
Lastly, I think this is a minor, but relatively important nitpick, but Dinosaur seems pretty outdated. I kind of don't need to explain myself when it comes to the preshow, as much as I like it, is pretty old, not to mention the disco pteranadons not even moving an inch.
Like someone mentioned here in the comments, Indy is a fun, chaotic madness, while Dinosaur is an insane, messy madness. And we already know how much of a mess disney is in the parks (in the figurative sense, ofc), especially as of late.
I'm gonna end it here, as this is far too long.
Don't most guests notice the details? If they didn't, why go to Disney and not Six Flags? The importance and subtly of theming is what has allowed Disney to achieve the status it has.
Also, disco Pteranodons? What?
@@PoseidonEntertainment Sorry for the late reply.
I'm certain 90% of people won't get the design philosphy from the short amount of time they spend on the ride, let alone the park.
I get that everyone has different views and experiences, but I can safely say most people just won't care about design philosphy when they came to disney parks for the rides and other things that most if not all guests do. Unless they get a lot of proper time or care to look and learn about smaller details and aspects which don't matter too much when it comes to just enjoying a ride since it's, well, a ride, they won't notice nor care.
Also I called them disco pteranodons because they're stationary like the yeti over in everest- stationary for probably the rest of their lives unless disney and chapek don't start care about cutting corners and costs.
When my wife and I went to wdw for the first time (we are regulars at DL) our feelings - having no idea what to expect - could be summed up as:
the pre-show for dinosaur was so good and it really excited us. We were like "this is going to be a really good ride" and the the experience itself was underwhelming.
No specific themeing complaints. The countdown was too drawn out. The story was a bit cheesy. The ride's age was really showing in the animatronics.
We concluded it must have been an excellent and thrilling ride when it came out, but that it needed a very large face-lift to live up to its exciting plot for this generation of Disney fans.
When did you go? It's been seeing significant improvements over the last few years.
@@PoseidonEntertainment February of 2020. Just before the shutdown. For our honeymoon.
Hadnt ridden this for about 9 years, but just got back. Still my favorite ride at WDW. I do wonder if anyone has video of the old effect of the "Compsognathus" (These are the projected small dinosaurs on the ride that are supposed to be jumping over you) in my memory as a kid these were static figures jumping over you with flashing or strobing effects, that really hammered home the chaos the meteorites/meteor were inflicting on the world in those final seconds of the ride. The projected effect evokes less than nothing for me and i wonder if theres any evidence or remnants of the older effect. Amazing video, very happy to revisit it after riding again. Keep it up!
It appears that people who like Indiana Jones better than Dinosaur have extremely fond memories of that film franchise. It transports them back to a happy time when they first experienced the IP, the same way Star Wars works for older Star Wars fans.
Dinosaur, however, is a more niche IP... so niche in fact that many riders are not even aware that the 2000 movie exists. And for people who "need" familiar IP to connect with a ride, that makes connection/enjoyment harder. My 22yo kid, for example, is bonkers crazygonuts in love with Dinosaur (the film) and thinks Dinosaur (the ride) is the best thing ever made at a Disney theme park.
Just a theory, an observation, an opinion. Love these video essays! Thank you for this one.
As someone who cares little about IP implementation, I've realized it's difficult to relate to people who seek that out. I've always preferred original attractions and even consider Dinosaur to be one because despite the shoe-horned Aladar, it still seems to stand on its own. That's an interesting anecdote though.
I totally agree that Dinosaur is the better ride! It’s much more thrilling and feels more perilous. I go to WDW every few of years since I live in CA and just got to Disneyland but when I do go to WDW, every time I go on that ride for the first time in a while, the ending always gets me! I’ll never forget this ride photo we got when I looked genuinely terrified. It also helps that I was just one of those kids that loved dinosaurs
Haven't gone on Indiana Jones since I haven't been to the west coast but I will say Dinosaur is favorite indoor ride at Disney, even though it's consistently over-looked. I don't really know why, but it also stokes a little bit of anxiety in me because when you get into the dark zones, it's legit DARK. In a way, Dinosaur feels the most like a 'Universal' ride at Disney, even if it's still a bit kiddy. It's always a delight to go on
Dinosaur was one of those rides I always heard about from the travel channel and my friends when I couldn't go to Disney growing up. I remember being really jealous of a ride photo my friend had. I finally got to ride it this year and it was amazing! I went on Indie a few years ago and I think another advantage for me is that Dinosaur is a completely original ride concept and not IP. Probably that just makes me biased but I always love to see an original ride idea instead of something from a movie. It just reminds me of what I got so excited for hearing about Disney growing up.
Also, I love your channel and look forward to seeing it blow up! I feel like you're fast on the track to at least 100k. This is such a refreshing theme park channel.
this is another one of those videos where i was skeptical going into it but you have me convinced- nice job on this one!
I remember in 1997 sitting outside that dinosaur ride while my parents rode it. I recognize the entrance still after all this time
Honestly, from an objective perspective, the story on Dinosaur is better. However, I also prefer the "story" of Indy. I like that Indy doesn't have a voice-over through most of the ride--the sets are beautiful and immense, the special effects take my breath away, and I like to focus on them. For me, it makes the experience more real. Instead of being told a story, I'm experiencing the dangers of the Temple of Mara in real time. Dinosaur tells you what's going on, whereas Indy shows you and trusts the guests to put the pieces together. Those are the feelings I get from both experiences.
Two subtle neat parallels I've only realized watching this - in Indy you approach the face of Mara up a long corridor, then after the lightning tunnel and door, you approach the actual face of Mara through a long corridor in the same manner and by forced perspective each corridor looks similar even though the scale is different.
Also in Dinosaur, it never clicked for me that the exit time portal is duplicated and likely is supposed to be the same one. When the vehicle leaves load you make a right and climb a incline (simulating acceleration). At the end you descend an incline (simulating deceleration) and make a left back to the loading platform. Two rooms at different ends of the track, but they are duplicated so it seems you've returned to the same place but going the other way a bit like how Mystic Manor's first and last scene are in the "same" (but different duplicate) room.
Indiana Jones is the better designed ride with more attention to detail and a wider variety of special effects that Imagineering is famous for. Classic attractions like Haunted Mansion and Pirates of the Caribbean come to mind in terms of design quality and special effects. Indiana Jones is also more widely accessible to the audience Walt intended when designing Disneyland and seems more consistent with his vision. Your video made me appreciate Dinosaur more and I would agree that it has the better storyline. It's also more cohesively themed to the land it's in. The scare element is also unique and makes it stand out from other Disney attractions, but is also what makes it vastly underappreciated. I think most of us can acknowledge the sad fact that both rides are more ambitious and creative than any dark ride Disney has since built for their domestic parks (excluding Rise of the Resistance).
I love both rides so much - both are at the top of my lists at each park! But I especially love the darkness of DINOSAUR because you can't see the track. It feels more like you're actually off-roading in a jungle, as opposed to Indy, where, if you're in the front of the car, you can literally see the flat path ahead of you. It kills some of the illusion, even as you bump around with hydraulics.
I prefer Indy because the two both achieve a thrilling experience in different way. The standout reason why I chose dinosaur is that it does not have that awesome themed quene. For instance I love exiting Indy at night walking through a temple, cave, and rainforest that is next to the jungle cruise
Pretty solid reasoning. I do like Disneyland's Adventureland despite how unfortunately small it is.
I might be misremembering, but Dinosaur is about the only pleasant memory I have from an early childhood visit to Disney parks as someone who is still scared to this day of dark rides of all types. I remember a much more relaxed experience, but maybe that's something else.
You might be thinking of the dinosaur ride in the former energy pavilion in Epcot. That was a relaxing experience.
This attraction is a classic. I use to be scared of this attraction till I gotten older. The whole concept and even the land itself is wonderfully well themed and tells a great story of the land itself. The little details you see around the land or in the attraction itself.
WDW in my mind is a better fit for older kids. It is far more spread out, involves more walking, and a lot of the themes, particularly in Epcot, don’t appeal to younger kids. So having a scarier version of the keep ride might fit with the overall more adultness of WDW in my mind. That being said, the whole premise of Disneyland was a theme park that was not gross and junky and one that families could enjoy together. Walt didn’t intend to make just another Disneyland in Florida, but after he died, that is what it became. But part of what appeals about Dinoland is that it subverts some of your typical Disney theme park expectations. It is kind of faux-ghetto with it’s asphalt everywhere and intentional tackiness. But I think if you like what Disneyland is, Dinoland kind of throws you off. If you kind of hate what Disneyland is about, it might appeal more because it’s a subversion of that in a way.
Very inteligent discussion. Always thought dark rides were the ultimate atractions for story telling and immersion, and you perfectly illistrate that with both.
Hey thanks, I appreciate the feedback!
Great video. I really like both of these attractions, but have a preference for Indiana. My reason is that it feels more immersive and more of an adventure. Taking nothing away from Dinosaur of course, but Indiana feels more realistic in that it is something I could realistically do at some point. It's a way of having fantasy but could actually happen in some regard. There is a sense of realism to it that is actually very rare in theme park attractions. Of course the story itself is fantasy, but could I actually go to some of these lands that Indiana has travelled to and actually follow in some of these footsteps? Sure could. And that aspect makes it a bit more terrifying as it feels more "real" versus just a fantasy story.
Now looking at Dinosaur - there is no way I could travel back in time so it is pure fantasy without any sense of being able to actually happen (at least not in my lifetime!). I fully agree with you on the story telling aspect of this attraction though. For sure it tells the story better and fits in well. I personally prefer the original name Countdown to Extinction. I think it was more fitting for the attraction and just fit in better with the overall Disney brand. The name Dinosaur just feels cheap and generic to me.
I appreciate the sense of adventure and realism that Indiana provides and that is the biggest reason that I rank it higher.
I would say at their primes(Indy is in bad need of a deep refurb) Indy is the superior ride because of its use of different effects as an experience.
Prior to its malfunction, the chamber of destiny’s effect of rotating its doors was a masterful technical effect that would make you believe there were 3 separate paths. Adding onto it now, the projection mapping of your gift is a great modern addition to the ride. Along with the boulder scene and the tricks used to make it really feel like it’s a near miss.Now there are places where things could be improved or added(the scene in the crystal skull version of the ride would be amazing, as there is one section of just darkness that’s wasted) but Those two scenes are the main reason at its peak why I’d say Indy is better.
Although dinosaurs jungle is very well themed, and they do have great animatronic figures, there big technical effects(the chase scene) don’t compare to what Indy brought in its prime.
But overall you made a compelling argument that made me really rethink and close the gap between the two rides!
Not gonna lie, the title of your vid triggered me lol. I still say Indiana Jones and the Temple of the Forbidden Eye is my preferred attraction, however I always rode Dinosaur several times each WDW visit because I always find it entertaining and not once have I ever thought it was poorly themed or lazy. I think I have a more nostalgic love for Indy than the film Dinosaur, which might be why I prefer Indy's ride, but I also think Dinosaur is a solid attraction!
Admittedly, sometimes I just like to make people think. I love both attractions, but it really does just seem to come down to preference.
Great video as always; I have nothing extra to offer to this conversation most of the points have been covered quite well by others in the comment section. Other than just to say for me when I rode both the Dinosaur at Disney's Animal Kingdom and The Indiana Jones Adventure at Disneyland there was no comparison (I had a great time) both of these rides are themed well to what your suppose to feel; they both make great use of the Enhanced Motion Vehicle system to tell their story. Now if they could just combine the speed of simulated slot car type dark ride attraction system used in Test Track and Radiator Springs Racers to the Disney's motion simulator mobility system use in Indiana Jones and Dinosaur Disney would have an amazing ride.
Dinosaur has always been my favorite ride at Disney
The crown jewel of Animal Kingdom.
It’s going to take a lot to convince me dinosaur is better than Indy, but I’ll give you a chance…
Thanks!
I definitely like your take on this video. I agree with so good and I also agree with you but here’s my take on it as well although not as long.
Same ride vehicle, same track layout yes but the parameters given to work with are apples and oranges. Both are amazing rides and I love both. For Indy, imagineers are given a much smaller box of parameters to work with for Indiana jones IP and concepts. When they made the ride, they had to more or less stick with the script of what Indy is/was. For countdown to extinction I felt that they’re given way more creative freedom in every aspect since they are building from complete scratch from the ride itself to the whole park to integrate. Again both are great and I’ve always loved both. I agree with your opinion on use of darkness to heighten the use of the other senses. It’s great.
DINOSAUR IS SO UNIQUE!
I have ridden in both attractions and I I much prefer Indiana Jones over dinosaur. What are things that really bothered me about dinosaur is that dinosaur just feels like an offbrand Jurassic Park. Which the film was trying to emulate back in the day. I know there are many differences between Jurassic Park and dinosaur. Still when I wrote the attraction I just got really too many Jurassic Park vibes. So much so that why would I want to write this attraction rather than something at universal. Another thing I hate universal. So in a Disney traction making me want to ride or a universal traction is blasphemous. The attention is straight out of a 90s TV show. I do have to admit the Q does a good job of explaining how old dinosaurs came to be was a little impressive but it was kind of ruined when I heard Bill Nye the science guy doing the narration. The preshow just feels corny, The actors make it feel like I’m on a school field trip to a fossil museum. Really what my issue is the preshow doesn’t take it seriously. So when the attraction starts it feels like we’re heading into a magic school bus a ride. Despite that the dark ride and how much it done is like you said dark. If they found someone a little more serious to do the narration and convey a much more serious tone. I think I would’ve liked this attraction. personally I think an update for this attraction would work wonders. Changing the motivations like instead of getting a whole dinosaur egg and just getting a sample instead would sound much more realistic and reasonable. Another thing updating the preshow with new actors with a note serious tone with Work to. There’s a directions not half bad, it just needs a more serious tone.
I like both but Indiana Jones just seems way more crazy and faster imo I've ridden both countless times so maybe it's just me
It was hilarious to hear “Who cares. Shut up.” Lmao
Agree. I like Dinosaur better. Just went this week. The darkness really left me feeling lost and was an opportunity to be shocked when a new dinosaur showed. It was a rougher ride which I'd expect in the dinosaur time. Appreciate the video
Excellent content dude!
LOL MY KID WAS SCARED!
A year late, lol. But I think a major factor on which ride someone likes more is what they ride theme park rides for. We all do it for immersion, but some are more interested in the ride and its effects, and others prioritize story. As someone who enjoys video games I’ve seen this kind of phenomenon there as well. Some people play games for the gameplay and will skip all the dialogue cuz they don’t care, and then there are people like me who don’t enjoy a game pretty much at all if the story and characters aren’t interesting. I’ve never ridden Indy’s ride before (never been to Disneyland), so I can’t say which one I’d end up enjoying more, but I think Dinosaur is awesome! The story is unique, whereas Indy’s ride is your classic “ancient ruin cursed by a god/king and stuff happens.” Story seems pretty much exactly like the mummy ride from Universal Orlando.
Also Dinosaur quite intense for a Disney ride, I didn’t know anything about it when I first rode it and as a result I ended up a little freaked out, lol. And the darkness is honestly quite necessary for the scary atmosphere, it’s a lot more anxiety-inducing when you know the Carnotaurus is coming but you don’t know when or where.
ive never been to disneyland so i cant really give my opinion on indy since i havent seen it in person but from videos it does look awesome... but i just have such a soft spot for dinosaur, it's one of my favorite disney rides [my favorite ride at animal kingdom... yes i like it A LOT more than flight of passage] i just love the thrill factor which i definitely agree the darkness adds to, the animatronics are amazing, and i LOVE that there's so much hidden lore to it that the average disney tourist wouldnt realize, i just love dinosaur so much
Indiana Jones is definitely in my top 5 best Theme park rides. However Disney really lessened the experience when they introduced fast pass. Holding the standby line outside the temple forces people to rush through the temple, missing the intricate themeing you originally slowly moved through and had plenty of time to take in. That also built the expectation of the ride which doesn't disappoint.
There was a time when people waited in line in the temple. But that won't happen again because of the fire code unfortunately...I asked a cast member about that. Too bad because alot is missed in the queue.
You make great points and overall I’ve always viewed the two as being fairly on or with each other, but I do give the edge to Indy. The queue is great and the detailed theming in the ride make it feel more epic and awe inspiring.
The points you make for dinosaur like it’s story are where it excels over Indy and I do find Dinosaur to be more thrilling overall. But while the darkness does at tension with not seeing where you’re going it does make it feel less impressive too. Does feel like the ride had budget cuts like others mentioned. But it still excels at what it does as you said.
Indy is helped by the the ring but I feel it gets hurt by it to in the areas that aren’t as strong. The blow dart room to me especially just feels so cheap to the rest of the ride with a black light painted wall instead of a fully realized set like the rest.
Would love to see Dinosaur get some love and enhanced with a good refurb.
I think the only thing Indy has over Dino is that big room. It creates scale and excitement as you mentioned, but it also introduces an element of interaction as you see other ride vehicles and briefly "interact" with one across the bridge. Otherwise, I agree wholeheartedly. I love the Dino area of the park (even the roadside attraction section). The story starts long before you enter the queue.