The traditional story of the celts coming into the island in the Iron age have all but been disproven by modern genetic studies the last people to come into that island before the norse happened in the early bronze age which means that there were no major new populations coming into the area in the iron age which means the arrival of the irish language had to have arrived in Ireland in the bronze age. So it's quite possible that the people who built this fort did speak a very early form of proto-irish.
You're correct to add to this the idea of the Celtic invasion has its roots in the Georgian period invented by linguistics to explain the similarity between languages we label as Celtic. It use to be taught that the celts brought iron weapons to Ireland but recent finds show it was the bronze age Irish who were smelting iron weapons showing an uninterrupted continuum starting around 800BC. If it was a group of elites who conquered the country they would need some advantage to defeat the bronze age irish they had none as far as we can tell. The Irish within their myths and legends say nothing about the celts invading Ireland either, the wave of invasions can be interpreted as bronze age stories. Lastly the place names in Ireland are all Gaelic, if there was a celtic invasion wouldn't we find mixed celtic and pre celtic place names.
I'd like to visit Ireland in general but sure to Mooghaun. Um I been to Newcastle upon Tyne in 2021.Way aye Man 😂 This fall I'll be Athens so I think I might find my way to Ireland sometime after 🍀🤞🏼
Reality is they may have spoken something like Irish, but very hard for a modern speaker to get. Same here in Wales, we've part of an old hill-fort here, they weren't speaking 'Welsh' in any modern sense. It's hard enough getting around Old / Archaic Welsh, what was spoken 2000 years before would probably have been vastly different.
That was fantastic! Loved watching this. Knew nothing about Mooghaun, anytime I visit I spend a good amount of time in Clare, I’ve family there & would LOVE to go! Especially after hearing this. Have been to Newgrange and I still often think about that experience. There’s so much Irish history to learn that I used to feel overwhelmed & just sort of “love the present version” but it’s impossible to do that without wanting to know WHERE ALL these things came from. Thank you so much! I really, really enjoyed this, made me want to learn more! January 19th, 2024
Hi Christin, I'm glad to hear that it piqued your curiosity. You're right, there's always more than could be possible to learn about. We can only follow a thread at a time 👍 Eoin
The question of whether the people built who built Muchan spoke an ancestor of Irish depends entirely on how "ancestor" is defined. The Irish language is a descendant of the Proto IndoEuropean language and the people who built Muchan certainly spoke some type of IndoEuropean language. Whether the IndoEuropean language they spoke was the direct ancestor of Old Irish is uncertain. Nearly all linguists agree that Proto Celtic was originated and spread by the Urnfield culture which started circa 1300 BC. They also generally agree that Insular Celtic diverged from Continental Celtic sometime before 900 BC. So, you have a 400 year window for the direct Celtic ancestor of Old Irish to reach Ireland. Since Muchan was constructed around 1050 BC, they may or may not have spoken a Celtic language. PS. There is no genetic evidence for the arrival of the Celtic language since the people who first brought an IndoEuropean language to Ireland circa 2000 BC are very similar genetically to the people of the Urnfield culture. Both were direct descendants of the Rhine Bell Beakers.
It's most likely they were speaking a descendant of the Indigenous European language dating back to the Paleolithic when hunter/ gatherers migrated from what is now Syria,Anatolia and Palestine, followed by the wave of pastoralist/ farmers from the same region.. There's an ancient substrata to IE which has features in common with IE (numbers 6 and 7, some animal and bird names) which can be found in Pictish,Tartessian, Sardinian, Celtiebrian and most probably Cretan. The connecting point is the Vinca Copper Age civilisation of the Serbia/Bulgaria area.
That's Newgrange kerbstone K67, at the back of the site. I have a particular liking for this stone 😊 Eoin More info here: www.newgrange.com/newgrange-k67.htm
That's Newgrange, but you will also find similar designs on tombs in Sardinia. Our Neolithic ancestors initially came from the Middle-East but also settled in Sardinia. Recent dna discoveries found that the Neolithic Irish share a high amount of modern Sardinian dna.
There's a reasonable theory that the language in Ireland before Irish might have been related to Semetic languages like Amazigh. This is based on shared grammatical features that are unique to these languages. The DNA appears to show a complete population replacement but it is possible that some of the earlier language features were adopted by the incoming Irish speakers.
I think that Irelands history, through time ,would have been much richer .But for our trouble past.The roman church and the English crown .Much has been lost .Instead of celebrating and understanding some of our past in Ireland .Tradition and knowledge, being past down. By one generation to the next, generation . in Ireland today, we have st Bridget day.The 17 march ,easter and Christmas .It is interesting ,that people live on these islands .For thousands of years, And not knowing .And not to have understanding, of there way of existence .
The language most likely arrived with the Beaker culture about 2,000 B.C. Descendants of the Yamnaya culture of the Pontic Steppe. It's definitely not a 'Celtic' language. The Neolithic farmers who came from the Middle East spoke a non-Indo-European language, most likely Semitic.
A professor at Queen's University published a paper suggesting that the Irish language can trace its origins back 4,500 years. A DNA expert has suggested that the Irish language can trace its roots to the arrival of settlers from the Pontic-Caspian Steppe in Eastern Europe around 4,500 years ago. Professor Jim Mallory disagrees with you.
Have you been to Múchán / Mooghaun hill fort, or ever heard of it?
The traditional story of the celts coming into the island in the Iron age have all but been disproven by modern genetic studies the last people to come into that island before the norse happened in the early bronze age which means that there were no major new populations coming into the area in the iron age which means the arrival of the irish language had to have arrived in Ireland in the bronze age. So it's quite possible that the people who built this fort did speak a very early form of proto-irish.
You're correct to add to this the idea of the Celtic invasion has its roots in the Georgian period invented by linguistics to explain the similarity between languages we label as Celtic. It use to be taught that the celts brought iron weapons to Ireland but recent finds show it was the bronze age Irish who were smelting iron weapons showing an uninterrupted continuum starting around 800BC. If it was a group of elites who conquered the country they would need some advantage to defeat the bronze age irish they had none as far as we can tell.
The Irish within their myths and legends say nothing about the celts invading Ireland either, the wave of invasions can be interpreted as bronze age stories.
Lastly the place names in Ireland are all Gaelic, if there was a celtic invasion wouldn't we find mixed celtic and pre celtic place names.
I'd like to visit Ireland in general but sure to Mooghaun. Um I been to Newcastle upon Tyne in 2021.Way aye Man 😂 This fall I'll be Athens so I think I might find my way to Ireland sometime after 🍀🤞🏼
I appreciated this video and im glad people are preserving this wonderful and beautiful language. Take care yall
Reality is they may have spoken something like Irish, but very hard for a modern speaker to get. Same here in Wales, we've part of an old hill-fort here, they weren't speaking 'Welsh' in any modern sense. It's hard enough getting around Old / Archaic Welsh, what was spoken 2000 years before would probably have been vastly different.
That was fantastic! Loved watching this. Knew nothing about Mooghaun, anytime I visit I spend a good amount of time in Clare, I’ve family there & would LOVE to go! Especially after hearing this. Have been to Newgrange and I still often think about that experience. There’s so much Irish history to learn that I used to feel overwhelmed & just sort of “love the present version” but it’s impossible to do that without wanting to know WHERE ALL these things came from. Thank you so much! I really, really enjoyed this, made me want to learn more! January 19th, 2024
Hi Christin, I'm glad to hear that it piqued your curiosity. You're right, there's always more than could be possible to learn about. We can only follow a thread at a time 👍 Eoin
A Eoin, bhain me an-thaitneamh as seo! Tá sé chomh suimiúil.🙂
Go raibh maith agat Deborah. Eoin
The question of whether the people built who built Muchan spoke an ancestor of Irish depends entirely on how "ancestor" is defined. The Irish language is a descendant of the Proto IndoEuropean language and the people who built Muchan certainly spoke some type of IndoEuropean language. Whether the IndoEuropean language they spoke was the direct ancestor of Old Irish is uncertain. Nearly all linguists agree that Proto Celtic was originated and spread by the Urnfield culture which started circa 1300 BC. They also generally agree that Insular Celtic diverged from Continental Celtic sometime before 900 BC. So, you have a 400 year window for the direct Celtic ancestor of Old Irish to reach Ireland. Since Muchan was constructed around 1050 BC, they may or may not have spoken a Celtic language. PS. There is no genetic evidence for the arrival of the Celtic language since the people who first brought an IndoEuropean language to Ireland circa 2000 BC are very similar genetically to the people of the Urnfield culture. Both were direct descendants of the Rhine Bell Beakers.
What a wonderful video and commentary! I always learn so much from your videos. Thank you so much for taking us on this journey 🙂
Really enjoyed it thanks
Glad you enjoyed it
It's most likely they were speaking a descendant of the Indigenous European language dating back to the Paleolithic when hunter/ gatherers migrated from what is now Syria,Anatolia and Palestine, followed by the wave of pastoralist/ farmers from the same region.. There's an ancient substrata to IE which has features in common with IE (numbers 6 and 7, some animal and bird names) which can be found in Pictish,Tartessian, Sardinian, Celtiebrian and most probably Cretan. The connecting point is the Vinca Copper Age civilisation of the Serbia/Bulgaria area.
Curious where r those spirals in the rock in the photo U showed? thanks!!! THIS is so wonderful!!!!! :D
That's Newgrange kerbstone K67, at the back of the site. I have a particular liking for this stone 😊 Eoin
More info here: www.newgrange.com/newgrange-k67.htm
That's Newgrange, but you will also find similar designs on tombs in Sardinia. Our Neolithic ancestors initially came from the Middle-East but also settled in Sardinia. Recent dna discoveries found that the Neolithic Irish share a high amount of modern Sardinian dna.
Yes I'd love ❤️ to visit!
Awesome video! As always : )
There's a reasonable theory that the language in Ireland before Irish might have been related to Semetic languages like Amazigh. This is based on shared grammatical features that are unique to these languages. The DNA appears to show a complete population replacement but it is possible that some of the earlier language features were adopted by the incoming Irish speakers.
No. There's no such wild theory
@@Ana_crusis It's a very common theory actually. Our Neolithic ancestors came from the Middle East so it's very possible.
Well it certainly does open up a whole new can of worms!
loved this, thanks
I think that Irelands history, through time ,would have been much richer .But for our trouble past.The roman church and the English crown .Much has been lost .Instead of celebrating and understanding some of our past in Ireland .Tradition and knowledge, being past down. By one generation to the next, generation . in Ireland today, we have st Bridget day.The 17 march ,easter and Christmas .It is interesting ,that people live on these islands .For thousands of years, And not knowing .And not to have understanding, of there way of existence .
Indeed, Eddie. You might enjoy our recent blog about the festival of Imbolc: www.bitesize.irish/blog/what-is-imbolc/
The language most likely arrived with the Beaker culture about 2,000 B.C. Descendants of the Yamnaya culture of the Pontic Steppe. It's definitely not a 'Celtic' language.
The Neolithic farmers who came from the Middle East spoke a non-Indo-European language, most likely Semitic.
Nonsense.
A professor at Queen's University published a paper suggesting that the Irish language can trace its origins back 4,500 years. A DNA expert has suggested that the Irish language can trace its roots to the arrival of settlers from the Pontic-Caspian Steppe in Eastern Europe around 4,500 years ago.
Professor Jim Mallory disagrees with you.
Is toil leam an video seo, tapadh leat!
Go raibh maith agat a Mike. Eoin
Iontach!
Dead people can't speak. Probably they spoke.
That's very funny!😂
Is gle eibhinn , sin!