True definition of unity and teamwork. Even though ideas are good, bad, or cringe: these three are literally trying to find an alternative solution to stop the spread of radiation.
You can really tell how their expertise in their respective fields influences their decision making and possible solutions that they suggest. It's a great scene.
@@alexharkness586 They didnt shoot it with exploding bullets at least and i dont think that mass could catch fire anyways. They shot it with 762 x 39 armor piercing ammo causing a dent
What I like about this scene, is that using men to do it, is something that would come to you as an idea far quicker than Legasov's robots, Boris's poured lead or Tarakanov's explosive bullets ideas. They all knew that sending men up was an option, but they're all desperately trying to come up with something, anything that means they don't have to order men to go onto that roof.
One would hope nobody would want to send people into an area where being there for 90 seconds would be enough to kill them. However, Communism places zero value on human life. If you come from a former Communist nation or have kin from one as I do, you will understand that.
I feel like of I were in that room. As soon as he suggests "Bio-Robots" would be when I'd finally feel inclined to drink the entire glass of vodka in one gulp just so I could force myself to throw up a second later. Think about it. We all know that it's the only option at this point but the idea of sending not just innocent men, but the most loyal men to the Union itself: its soldiers, to expose themselves to suffer and likely die by the 1000s... It's not something anyone should ever have to even as the last resort. My respect towards the men here and for all those who worked to clean up this mess.
@@hang_kentang6709 Yeah, it's not exactly politically correct to say you're sending people out there. Tells you all about the morality of the science.
@@ArcaneAzmadi he was actually one of the reason why german robot was sent there in the first place, because human cannot withstand the radiation there for 2 minutes. He still tries to avoid the unnecessary loss of human life when talking about the Masha roof. It is only after they wasted all those resources and time away for a useless robot does the bio-robot becomes an option.
@@Iwanwahid1969 the robot could have been useful, but they used the propaganda number, not the actual amount of radiation. So the robot wasn't properly hardened because they told the company building it "it must be able to withstand 2,000 Rontkin" not the 12,000 that was actually coming off the graphite.
@@andrewgause6971 at the time - 36 some years ago - I don't think they could've hardened a robot enough to handle the radiation being pumped out. The amount of shielding required may have made it unable to move. They've sent at least one robot into Fukushima, but that is 25 years + tech advancement. I have to remind myself sometimes just how far tech has come sense the 1980's.
i don't think so, I think it just hadn't occurred to the other two because considering how dangerous that roof was they didn't even consider sending actual people up there. they just forgot that people are somewhat expendable, especially in a situation where millions could otherwise die
I think this might be one of my favorite scenes ever. It's like a breaking point: everyone is dancing around something they don't want to do - send me on the roof. And all the sudden - they are drinking, almost relaxed together - open enough to throw out their own ideas. Ideas which are actually creative! - not advisable, but it feels like finally the Soviet, hard shell breaks and we see a bit more of the internal dialogue going on in their heads.
@@flyingby3703 This wasn't obvious, but I genuinely thought this to be a typo. Later I realised, that Max had apparently omitted quotes, with which "Send me on the roof" would have a different meaning.
What I love most about this scene is Tarakanov's reaction to Boris's lead idea. Specifically when Boris mentions how the soldiers had been removing lead sheeting from the other reactors to make their armor. The way he asks "Are you serious?" has such a disbelief behind it, it's heartwrenching. It really helps reinforce the desperation of the situation and how poorly equipped they are to try and fix the issue. He doesn't even sound mad, just disappointed and broken.
I like the nice detail of Shcherbina, whose typical coping mechanism with the stress and frustration of the whole debacle is to occasionally have drinking breaks, deciding that he needs to SOBER up before any further discussion of Legasov's "bio-robots" suggestion. If he is to send men to their doom, he'll be damned if he was drunk while making the order!
Interestingly enough, none of the men on the roof died of radiation poisoning. Neither did the divers in the first episodes.They were very well protected because everyone knew how dangerous their mission is. The victims were almost exclusively people who had no idea what situation they are in. Like the people from the first episode and those who lived a few hundred km from the powerplant, but on the path of radioactive wind.
What I find cool in this scene, is that it's deconstruction the cliche of the corrupted politician and general, ready to sacrifice everything and everyone for their career. Here, the politician and the general are trying to find any solution that doesn't include putting people in danger, but in the end, it's the innocent and "naive" scientist that tell them there is no other way, people will have to die. It perfectly shows the very strange and equally hopeless situation they are in, roles are mixed, there is no good and bad, just the thing that need to be done. Kinda cool.
Kinda also drives home the point.. when faced with a real world situation, politicians will always wither under pressure n hesitate to take the decision which will accomplish the task however unpopular the decision is. It needs a scientist, whose life is based on researching facts, to come up with the solution irrespective of how unpopular the solution may sound like.
This is reminiscent of the Netflix "The Last of Us" tv show Ep2 pre-pandemic scene in Indonesia, with the scientist on mycology is consulted by a military officer on whether there's any way to defeat this new strain of cordyceps fungi that can infect humans, and she simply tells him to start bombing the entire city indiscriminately, much to the horror of the soldier who sought a civilian's advice.
I love how the writing walks us through their entire process of thoughts. What do they need to accomplish? (Clear the roof.) What for? (To cover it.) What if they don't? ("Hour after hour ...") And the bouncing of solutions off one another highlights just how grim their situation really is: They lack resources. They lack equipment. They lack political will. And really, everyone is out of their depth here, considering the solutions they discuss. And when they finally come to the solution, first calling it "bio robots" is further framing how hesitant they are in sending actual people up there. "Bio robots" puts the function, the purpose first. They aren't just throwing men at a problem because that's the easiest, most expendable soltuion. And it also highlights just how hesistant they are to even suggest this option.
The saddest part in this scene is a member of state acknowledging that even during a nuclear catastrophe that could have far-reaching global implications, the Soviet Union command would never even think of asking the US for help because it would make them look weak.
In fact, in reality, there was a ban at the level of the US law on the export of such technologies from the USA to the USSR: supercomputers, advanced systems of precision mechanics, robots, yeah.
@@jhonfamo8412 to be fair the last time the west gave the soviets tech, on the promise to use it to improve civilian life, they instead used it to build a jet fighter. Which quickly propelled the soviet air force into being one of the best in the world, almost overnight.
@@warhawk9566 What are you referring to? The soviet Union had plentyful access to captured german WW2 rocket technology, M262 jet fighters and german rocket scientists to create their own jet fighters.
I love the absence of ego here. it’s the ideas that are criticized, not the person and some of the more impractical ideas are handled with humor. idk. for whatever reason the lack of that sort of tension is gratifying to witness as these guys try to figure out their least-worst options.
@@hannibalsmyth6779 That would be too heavy, impractical and that they could fly over the open reactor. I asked if they could fly higher and he said no. I tought they didn't had the technology no fly higher then the radiation.
@@hannibalsmyth6779 Nah, just very intelligent. Had a PHD in something completely unrelated to science and still knew the same amount (if not more) about it than the subject of his own doctorate.
It's fascinating that Shcherbina, one of the highest officials in the USSR, a lifelong apparatchik, who has spent his life seeing the Americans as the enemy, is so beaten down by what happened at Chernobyl that he is the one who suggests asking them for help. It really highlights the desparation, anything to finally put this Chernobyl issue to bed.
As a Scientist & Engineer I was really taken in by this HBO production - "Bio Robots" or "Human Cannon Fodder" those men who lost their lives in WW1 trench warfare...We should never forget those who sacrifice so much!
The man (Legasov) who was the most concerned about human safety at first, was also the man who suggested using "bio-robots" some days later. Quite a segue.
That’s because he had a hope earlier that robots could help clean the roof up. But, as lately the German robot , which they think is the only one machine that can withstand the colossal amount of radiation over there on Masha, got out of order, they had no other choice rather than send men to get rid of graphite manually.
@@Wafflepudding Yes, but still... You would think someone like Tarakanov would be the first one to suggest something like this, but no... it was Legasov.
they were running out of time and ideas, clearly "bio-robots" was the only option, somebody just has to say it out loud, and Legasov did it when a person who is concerned about human safety more comes with this idea(bio-robots), you know things are really fucked up. I do agree with you though, but this is what I believe.
I can just imagine them cutting away to one of those videos of an American with an overpowered air or water cannon blasting an equivalent heavy object away for fun.
Pressure and heat from air will cause another fire. Solution is use verry strong glue web or hendgehog, or steel net, some pulley system. But it steel need man to install it. Still need of biorobots. Or use tenticle vacuum hand manipulator. But its complicated not powerful enouph. Lasso man step on shield plate this lifted by crane and crane right up core... Worker will be deadman walking - but your now need several man to do it.
A leader listening to the warnings given by the scientist and soldiers obeying and doing good for the betterment of mankind. If they exist in every corner of every country. The world would be a better place.
Far too often in this world, leaders insist on believing that they can make reality bend the knee to policy rather than vice versa -- but far more often than not, leaders who do this end up creating situations they did not expect, did not intend, and did not want. Sadly, the leaders who create those misguided policies usually are not the ones who suffer the most as a result of them.
The politician thinking about having to report to his superiors, the general thinking about his men, and the scientist face to face with the horrific facts they need to openly acknowledge.
I love how this scene completely reverse the characters. Here we have the Soldier and the politician knowing what they have to do, but is trying so hard to come up with another option to deal with the graphite on the roof. Anything to not send men up there to their deaths. Drinking to make it easier to speak their mind. Then the scientist who is shown to be soft and naive. He cares more about the people more than anything. He suggest “bio robots.” Humans to be sent up. He looks like he couldn’t be bothered or is trying to disassociate the men by calling them “bio robots.” The politician is shocked by this but ultimately agrees. He gives the soldier the order and the soldier follows orders. Sadden that he will be sending men to their deaths.
I wish some of my meetings are like this. Shooting out hair-brained ideas while drinking shots. Each idea more silly than the next until we find out something that works
Something about listening to these men throw out ideas on how to solve this catastrophe while a pouring rain hits off the roof protecting them from it and the outside. The atmosphere that’s created in this scene is not only terrifyingly hopeless, but also relaxing.
Boron and sand were air-dropped to put out the core fire, which melted into lava known as corium and spilled down below the reactor creating the infamous Elephant's Foot. The problem here is the graphite that was ejected from the core in the explosion, is far too radioactive to be left there, but will kill anyone who goes near it within 3 minutes.
I wonder why couldnt they use water to blast the small-mid range objects into the reactor. They were quenching it anyway. Just take a bunch of firehoses up to the roof and have at it.
there is always a 'genius' there. what do you know about the infrastructure there? and i hope you realise that these hoses would be contaminated within minutes, and could not be used any more afterwards? every shovel used was used only for 90 seconds.
@@zmajodnocaja5088 And there is always a bigger genius to reply. There was water there, firetrucks and hoses. If a hose gets contaminated...so what. Better contaminate a hose instead of a human being. And it wouldnt get contaminated in minutes. A shovel touches the graphite...a hose would shoot water at a distance( there are water cannons that shoot water over 200m ). The amount of radiation exposure is not inversely proportional to the distance from the radiation source, but is inversely proportional to the square of the distance. The distance that a hose can put between a person and graphite would make a huge difference.
@@UninstallingWindows, the water would be contaminated...and harder to control afterwards than shovels and equipment. Plus the volume of water needed to move ALL of the debris into the hole would be massive. Far more than they could hope to contain. It's an interesting idea, but not as feasible as it first appears.
@@dclark142002 They wouldn't have to move "All" the objects into the hole, just small/mid sized stuff. The stuff that sticks to you when you walk on it, or dust that can be blown into the wind. The amount of water would be trivial overall since firefighters had already pumped tonnes of water into the building + they kept trying to cool the fuel anyways. Also blown off roof + regular rain = contaminated water anyways. It's better to blast the radioactive debris and fine dust particles into the reactor where they wouldn't get blown away by the wind.
I'm curious if had they tried to use cranes equipped with huge, heavy sheets to 'sweep' the graphite off the roof and into the hole over the railing, would that have worked? You'd require only a handful of operators at most.
I assume it would take too long to do since they are running out of time and favor to ask. The "bio-robots" idea is literally their Hail Mary at this point, since if that fails, they are pretty much screwed
Unreal series. Very nicely done. You cant even find out how many men/ women/kids actually died fighting this abomination. You will never know. You cant learn from a catastophe if you dont know all the details. Governments and the people will continually make these mistakes over and over because of fear and lack of knowledge. People will continually be put in danger. Here we are! The future.! Awesome right?
I do appreciate that they all knew sending in men would be an option but because it's a deadly option they are having this conversation - to find a solution that would not endanger men. Unfortunately, the situation is too dire for other solutions and they must resort to condemning men to death in order to save millions of lives. Tough decision but necessary discussion.
Well American doctors went to Moscow to do bone marrow transplant for some of the victims. We were absolutely willing to share some of the technology with the Russians.
I doubt the Kremlin had any desire to admit, even in private, that they created a potential global catastrophe. Especially to the United States of all nations during the time.
Funny how they initially are avoiding the idea of using hoards of people in small intervals, yet they are sitting in a leaky tent with radioactive rain falling on them…
I just checked - 2 liters of lead would weigh over 22 kilograms. 10 liters - 110 kilograms how much can a helicopter lift, im guessing a couple hundred kilograms max. 50 liters would weight half a ton. and looking at the massive amount of space there, they'd need like 50k liters.
The Soviet Mi-26 could lift 20,000kg. But yes, to use lead they would have needed ... more lead than they could get, and some way to melt it, and hundreds of flights at least, and ... here's the thing about dropping stuff: the further away you are, the less accurate you are. So you are looking at a terrible trade-off: if they fly high, they don't put all the lead exactly where it needs to go, so you need more lead and more flights (and more chances for something to go horribly wrong). Or they fly low and then they are closer to the source of the radiation so they run a much greater risk of getting sick, causing an accident, ... Using people can begin immediately and will definitely work. It will also definitely kill some people. There are no good options.
Hard to say... but I’d imagine tiger teams at places like General Atomics, Lockheed SW, or JPL would have loved to have taken a crack at the problem. Of course, it’s likely they would’ve received the same “propaganda number” the Germans received concerning the radiation levels.
I don't think we even have the technology now. A lot of the deconstruction of the Chernobyl sarcophagus is done by hand and there are still places that will fry electronic devices.
One thing I have wondered about since seeing this scene is if they could have suspended a bulldozer blade from a helicopter with cables and then dragged it across the roof. Just wondering.
why couldn't they build a ramp up to the roof and drive a fleet of bulldozers up there? if only i was in that room, i'd get the order of lenin for sure.
So my brother and I were talking about what could be done about Marsha and we both came up with the same idea. Attach a broom like tool to the end of a construction crane and use that to push the graphite. The end of a crane would have no necessary electronics that the radiation would destroy and the rest of the crane would be far enough away that the radiation wouldn’t effect its operation. Would this work or are my brother and I just idiots? Lol
I kinda thought the same, though the height and how near it must be may made it impossible. I thought attaching a broom like tool to a helicopter, but seeing the size of the debris, I doubt it would have been enough to remove all the graphite.
maybe for smaller pieces, but when it comes to moving those large chunks that require multiple men, unlikely. Assuming they do have such a machine that could proved enough pressure to move those chunks it would be too big to place on a roof assuming said machine is not normally bolted down to the ground.
No. You basically make radioactive steam and the temp was so high it would evaporate before it could touch. Radioactive fire needs solid matter to beat
Three people arguing, a scientist, a politician and a soldier. The soldier and the politician are in a debate about how to make a simingly impossible task, possible. The politician comes up with a scientific way, by using lead. The soldier quickly picks the idea apart with reality. He now suggests to use guns/weapons to get rid of the problem. The politician only finds a laugh to this insane idea, as it would only make new problems, than solve any existing ones. Now the politician tries anew, by suggesting a robot, a better robot than the ones they used before. The soldier, again, explains, there is no "better" robot and if there was, they wouldn't get it. A silence surrounds the three man. "Bio-Robots", the scientist says, breaking the silence. The politician and soldier don't understand at first, but then the scientist explains. "Men", and the both of them understand. Neither the soldier nor the politician would never come up with the idea to use their own men for such a suicidal task, only the scientist.
1:55...when a Soviet politician considers asking the Americans for technology, you know they've reached critical point. But this is the problem with bad faith between nations: at the moment one is in trouble and realizes that what it has is worthless, it has to decide: does it keep convincing itself that a solution will be found or does it swallow its pride and asks for help? The thing about the Soviets is that most of its technology was a knockoff copy of what the West had so it couldn't compare. Not only were designs rushed without regards to impacts, they were also inefficient and hazardous. This scene is the acknowledgement that the Soviets, for all their public grandstanding, can't even ensure that this disaster is taken care of.
I liked tv show a lot. But you do realise that Soviets were actually ahead of West in a lot of ways. Military devices, space rockets(for a long time), space suits, even power plants(this one failed not because of bad technology, but because some morons didn't apply normal safety procedures). Soviet Russia is not a fucking hell pit. It was a country with a political power. Some good, some bad. Same way Americans whose view on USSR is built on Western brilliant use of fictional storytelling for political propaganda purposes. Same way, most USSR citizens were indoctrinated by Soviet brilliant use of ordinary people morals for political propaganda purposes. Thinking that Western civilization are all sex, sex, sex, sex, aids, aids, aids. Everyone is naked, fucking children and greedy as f.
This ignores the actual history. The alternative proposal wasn’t pouring lead on the roof. The alternative proposal was to build a crane big enough to reach the roof. An operator sitting in a lead lined cab would then sweep the roof clean. It was rejected because if a fire started again they wouldn’t be able to fly helicopters close to the reactor building without risking one going down, like had already happened with a crane.
They actually did use the crane, at least in real life. The problem was that crane’s don’t really have the dexterity to grab tiny pieces of graphite, but nevertheless, there’s a radioactive gripping claw in Pripyat
@@BTW4LK I wasn't even thinking about gripping anything, just pushing. Maybe a bit of a Wile E. Coyote plan, but I'm thinking of a steel girder, maybe three meters long. Drop it down to the rooftop, then "wipe" toward the pit. No electrical components need to go near any radioactive material. On other crazy parts of the whiteboard, my first thought when they had to put boron on the fire was "catapults."
Nope. Russian and Ukrainian forces agreed to call a ceasefire shortly after clashes near Chernobyl in February-March after the station got hit several times by tank shells, and had a joint team overseeing its work. After our forces got beaten and retreated east, Ukrainian army once again took ahold of it and there has been no fighting whatsoever there as far as I'm concerned. The nuclear station you probably mean is Zaporozhskaya.
Thats a fucked up way to do things, even if they are prisoners. Because not all prisoners are there for rape, murder or trafficking. I say this because this is the Soviet Union, alot of good people would be sent straight to their deaths because they were deemed "suspicious" or other.
@@Darksky1001able Yeah. There was an infamous case about a little boy who got sentenced to 5 years in prison for stealing a sack of potatoes. Funny enough, it happened again in modern Russia and another boy got 8 years for the same damn thing.
Water guided through high pressure hose towards radioactive graphite? With those H2 atoms in the water, all that we need is a small accidental spark somewhere and Bam!!!!
Take a light/small russian car, rip off its roof, hood, trunk, all the seats and other unnecessary accessories/weight and the russian cars back then did not need any electronics to operate except to start the engine which can be easily fixed. Attach a plow at the front_ the whole thing can be less than 2000 pounds distributed among 4 wheels which is easily tolerated by the structure/roof, especially that we are talking about the roof of a nuclear facility which is over designed to bear possible missile attacks and nuclear explosions. No need for soldiers to carry each piece by shovel and walk around in confusion. Just plow the whole mess away into the core. Even better, if that building can be disposed of, just detonate the columns of th side adjacent to the core, andlet the building collapse-roll into/over the core with all the graphite it contains.
It's like when they had to as Gorbachev if they could order 3 men to their deaths. It was almost a taboo then in Russian to just do that, or even suggest it. The Russians were trying hard to fix their image at that point of the cold war.
@@jasoncarswell7458 lol as if the US was fair and humane at that time either. Let's actually not let ideology blind us to reality and actually try and _learn_ something from this series, please.
The Americans did have robots. But you would be forced update the software every year, at which point we slow your robot down. We slow it so much that you are forced buy an entire new robot the next year and the cycle becomes endless. WHY?? Because United States of Capitalism.
A scientist, a politician and a soldier suggesting ideas to get rid of one of the most dangerous things in the world. I really like this scene.
True definition of unity and teamwork. Even though ideas are good, bad, or cringe: these three are literally trying to find an alternative solution to stop the spread of radiation.
A scientist, a politician and a soldier walk into a bar...
exactly what i thought !
The bartender looks up and says is this some kind of a joke
You can really tell how their expertise in their respective fields influences their decision making and possible solutions that they suggest. It's a great scene.
"No, your lead idea is absurd.
w e s h o o t i t ."
“You want to shoot... an exploding bullet at an expose nuclear reactor?”
@@kursk_kuku141 *shrugs*
Somebody did shoot the elephant's foot, the mass of corium in the basement soooo...
“No no. Let’s go light that roof back on fire. It was “so easy” to put out the first time.”
@@alexharkness586 They didnt shoot it with exploding bullets at least and i dont think that mass could catch fire anyways.
They shot it with 762 x 39 armor piercing ammo causing a dent
“Let’s go light that roof back on fire, it was so easy to put out the first time” 😂
What I like about this scene, is that using men to do it, is something that would come to you as an idea far quicker than Legasov's robots, Boris's poured lead or Tarakanov's explosive bullets ideas.
They all knew that sending men up was an option, but they're all desperately trying to come up with something, anything that means they don't have to order men to go onto that roof.
One would hope nobody would want to send people into an area where being there for 90 seconds would be enough to kill them. However, Communism places zero value on human life. If you come from a former Communist nation or have kin from one as I do, you will understand that.
I feel like of I were in that room. As soon as he suggests "Bio-Robots" would be when I'd finally feel inclined to drink the entire glass of vodka in one gulp just so I could force myself to throw up a second later. Think about it. We all know that it's the only option at this point but the idea of sending not just innocent men, but the most loyal men to the Union itself: its soldiers, to expose themselves to suffer and likely die by the 1000s... It's not something anyone should ever have to even as the last resort. My respect towards the men here and for all those who worked to clean up this mess.
The term "Bio-Robot" has this politically correct tone to it. Sounds better than "people".
@@gabrielarchange4680 The term bio robots is dehuminising, which is exactly the point.
@@hang_kentang6709 Yeah, it's not exactly politically correct to say you're sending people out there. Tells you all about the morality of the science.
Anyone else laugh when he was interrupted his "hour after hour". Lol it's like he gave that speech so often.
I did 😆😆...boris was like not again with this hour after hour slogan
Seemed sort of out-of-place though. By the time roof clearing was taking place, radiation levels were down to one Hiroshima every couple days.
Legasov himself said it in a "you know how it goes" kinda tone.
“Hour after hour…”
“It’s been days. Let me work without thinking about how fucked we are.”
For those who LOL'd at shooting graphite suggestion:
They actually shot the Elephant's Foot with an AK to check whether it's breakable or not.
and was it?
No it weighs like 12 tonnes
@@tylerhumphrey1876 like, correct me if I'm wrong, but it's weight has nothing to do with how breakeble it is lol
@@matthias9108 not sure tbh but just seems like it might have some thing
Actually they managed to break some small fragments for analysis, but it mostly remained intact.
The truth of this scene was that all three knew what the answer was but Legasov was the one to voice it first!!
Legasov was the biggest realist there. As the scientist, he would only ever deal with facts. And the fact was, there was only one solution.
@@ArcaneAzmadi
he was actually one of the reason why german robot was sent there in the first place, because human cannot withstand the radiation there for 2 minutes. He still tries to avoid the unnecessary loss of human life when talking about the Masha roof.
It is only after they wasted all those resources and time away for a useless robot does the bio-robot becomes an option.
@@Iwanwahid1969 the robot could have been useful, but they used the propaganda number, not the actual amount of radiation. So the robot wasn't properly hardened because they told the company building it "it must be able to withstand 2,000 Rontkin" not the 12,000 that was actually coming off the graphite.
@@andrewgause6971 at the time - 36 some years ago - I don't think they could've hardened a robot enough to handle the radiation being pumped out. The amount of shielding required may have made it unable to move.
They've sent at least one robot into Fukushima, but that is 25 years + tech advancement.
I have to remind myself sometimes just how far tech has come sense the 1980's.
i don't think so, I think it just hadn't occurred to the other two because considering how dangerous that roof was they didn't even consider sending actual people up there.
they just forgot that people are somewhat expendable, especially in a situation where millions could otherwise die
Ah, the sound of radioactive rain...
Yes, almost like a Geiger counter, very soothing...
@@majeutycahholy shit
I think this might be one of my favorite scenes ever. It's like a breaking point: everyone is dancing around something they don't want to do - send me on the roof. And all the sudden - they are drinking, almost relaxed together - open enough to throw out their own ideas. Ideas which are actually creative! - not advisable, but it feels like finally the Soviet, hard shell breaks and we see a bit more of the internal dialogue going on in their heads.
* send meN on the roof
@@mardus_ee no no, we have to send max hendorson on the roof, everyone knows it xD
@@mardus_ee No. They obviously don’t want to send Max Henderson on the roof.
@@flyingby3703 This wasn't obvious, but I genuinely thought this to be a typo. Later I realised, that Max had apparently omitted quotes, with which "Send me on the roof" would have a different meaning.
@@mardus_ee Bro this was sarcasm, I thought he made a typo too. I‘m just joking around here
I don't know why they are doing this, it's just 3.6 roentgen.
It's not 15000 roentgen, i am delusion
@@AB-vw8wz That's a shame. Would you like to go to the infirmary?
The Premier what does the science say? I’d rather go with the expert in the party.
That's not great but not terrible
It’s the equivalent of a chest X-ray 🤷
What I love most about this scene is Tarakanov's reaction to Boris's lead idea. Specifically when Boris mentions how the soldiers had been removing lead sheeting from the other reactors to make their armor. The way he asks "Are you serious?" has such a disbelief behind it, it's heartwrenching. It really helps reinforce the desperation of the situation and how poorly equipped they are to try and fix the issue. He doesn't even sound mad, just disappointed and broken.
I like the nice detail of Shcherbina, whose typical coping mechanism with the stress and frustration of the whole debacle is to occasionally have drinking breaks, deciding that he needs to SOBER up before any further discussion of Legasov's "bio-robots" suggestion. If he is to send men to their doom, he'll be damned if he was drunk while making the order!
Interestingly enough, none of the men on the roof died of radiation poisoning. Neither did the divers in the first episodes.They were very well protected because everyone knew how dangerous their mission is. The victims were almost exclusively people who had no idea what situation they are in. Like the people from the first episode and those who lived a few hundred km from the powerplant, but on the path of radioactive wind.
@@epicbastard1 it's estimated that 1/4 of all the liquidators have since died of cancer or other radiation related illnesses.
What I find cool in this scene, is that it's deconstruction the cliche of the corrupted politician and general, ready to sacrifice everything and everyone for their career.
Here, the politician and the general are trying to find any solution that doesn't include putting people in danger, but in the end, it's the innocent and "naive" scientist that tell them there is no other way, people will have to die.
It perfectly shows the very strange and equally hopeless situation they are in, roles are mixed, there is no good and bad, just the thing that need to be done.
Kinda cool.
Kinda also drives home the point.. when faced with a real world situation, politicians will always wither under pressure n hesitate to take the decision which will accomplish the task however unpopular the decision is. It needs a scientist, whose life is based on researching facts, to come up with the solution irrespective of how unpopular the solution may sound like.
This is reminiscent of the Netflix "The Last of Us" tv show Ep2 pre-pandemic scene in Indonesia, with the scientist on mycology is consulted by a military officer on whether there's any way to defeat this new strain of cordyceps fungi that can infect humans, and she simply tells him to start bombing the entire city indiscriminately, much to the horror of the soldier who sought a civilian's advice.
@@ChenAnPin TLOU is HBO just like this show, not Netflix
Its all bad, but pick your poison.
I love how the writing walks us through their entire process of thoughts.
What do they need to accomplish? (Clear the roof.)
What for? (To cover it.)
What if they don't? ("Hour after hour ...")
And the bouncing of solutions off one another highlights just how grim their situation really is:
They lack resources.
They lack equipment.
They lack political will.
And really, everyone is out of their depth here, considering the solutions they discuss.
And when they finally come to the solution, first calling it "bio robots" is further framing how hesitant they are in sending actual people up there. "Bio robots" puts the function, the purpose first. They aren't just throwing men at a problem because that's the easiest, most expendable soltuion. And it also highlights just how hesistant they are to even suggest this option.
Great sound design using the raindrops to sound like radiation.
This scene is intense in decision making.
Soviet problems require Soviet solutions.
SinDawg030 because all they had where Soviet solutions. They had no other options.
vodka?
Worked on that Nazi problem they had too.
Well...it's their "Blyat" power
The saddest part in this scene is a member of state acknowledging that even during a nuclear catastrophe that could have far-reaching global implications, the Soviet Union command would never even think of asking the US for help because it would make them look weak.
And we might help them... To weaken them further. Sadly
In fact, in reality, there was a ban at the level of the US law on the export of such technologies from the USA to the USSR: supercomputers, advanced systems of precision mechanics, robots, yeah.
@@jhonfamo8412 to be fair the last time the west gave the soviets tech, on the promise to use it to improve civilian life, they instead used it to build a jet fighter. Which quickly propelled the soviet air force into being one of the best in the world, almost overnight.
@@jhonfamo8412 Communists can't be trusted. With anything. Ever. It is a shame, but they brought it upon themselves.
@@warhawk9566 What are you referring to?
The soviet Union had plentyful access to captured german WW2 rocket technology, M262 jet fighters and german rocket scientists to create their own jet fighters.
Has anyone ever noticed that Boris puts his vodka down at the idea of sending men to the roof?
I love the absence of ego here. it’s the ideas that are criticized, not the person and some of the more impractical ideas are handled with humor. idk. for whatever reason the lack of that sort of tension is gratifying to witness as these guys try to figure out their least-worst options.
Ralph Ineson has an incredible voice
"We could, I dunno... we could melt it and pour it from above... like a coating"
LMFAOOO
When my stepfather was teaching me about Chernobyl I asked that. Why not pour melted lead from the sky. I was surprised with this scene.
Alex Harkness what was his answer?
@@hannibalsmyth6779 That would be too heavy, impractical and that they could fly over the open reactor. I asked if they could fly higher and he said no. I tought they didn't had the technology no fly higher then the radiation.
Alex Harkness thank you for answering, is your stepfather a scientist?
@@hannibalsmyth6779 Nah, just very intelligent. Had a PHD in something completely unrelated to science and still knew the same amount (if not more) about it than the subject of his own doctorate.
The way Boris scoffs at the exploding bullet idea, you can see him thinking. “I can’t believe you even thought of such an idea.”
Ok, ok so- a nuclear scientist, a Soldier and a politician walk into a tent
The rain sounds like a Geiger counter. Love the sound design in the whole series.
It's fascinating that Shcherbina, one of the highest officials in the USSR, a lifelong apparatchik, who has spent his life seeing the Americans as the enemy, is so beaten down by what happened at Chernobyl that he is the one who suggests asking them for help. It really highlights the desparation, anything to finally put this Chernobyl issue to bed.
As a Scientist & Engineer I was really taken in by this HBO production - "Bio Robots" or "Human Cannon Fodder" those men who lost their lives in WW1 trench warfare...We should never forget those who sacrifice so much!
All three of these actors should have gotten Emmy’s
The man (Legasov) who was the most concerned about human safety at first, was also the man who suggested using "bio-robots" some days later. Quite a segue.
That’s because he had a hope earlier that robots could help clean the roof up. But, as lately the German robot , which they think is the only one machine that can withstand the colossal amount of radiation over there on Masha, got out of order, they had no other choice rather than send men to get rid of graphite manually.
Because at that point they were out of alternatives
@@Wafflepudding Yes, but still... You would think someone like Tarakanov would be the first one to suggest something like this, but no... it was Legasov.
@@andrejspetersons8500 He said it, because they were all thinking it. But they all tried finding ways around it there were none.
they were running out of time and ideas, clearly "bio-robots" was the only option, somebody just has to say it out loud, and Legasov did it when a person who is concerned about human safety more comes with this idea(bio-robots), you know things are really fucked up. I do agree with you though, but this is what I believe.
I can just imagine them cutting away to one of those videos of an American with an overpowered air or water cannon blasting an equivalent heavy object away for fun.
Pressure and heat from air will cause another fire.
Solution is use verry strong glue web or hendgehog, or steel net, some pulley system. But it steel need man to install it. Still need of biorobots. Or use tenticle vacuum hand manipulator. But its complicated not powerful enouph.
Lasso man step on shield plate this lifted by crane and crane right up core... Worker will be deadman walking - but your now need several man to do it.
A leader listening to the warnings given by the scientist and soldiers obeying and doing good for the betterment of mankind. If they exist in every corner of every country. The world would be a better place.
Far too often in this world, leaders insist on believing that they can make reality bend the knee to policy rather than vice versa -- but far more often than not, leaders who do this end up creating situations they did not expect, did not intend, and did not want. Sadly, the leaders who create those misguided policies usually are not the ones who suffer the most as a result of them.
Tarankov was an interesting character too, his actor really conveyed a sense of nobility, good stuff
Ralph Ineson is just an iconic figure with that voice. Like damn...
I didn’t think it would be Legasov suggesting using men, but I suppose they’ve reached that point of no return already.
The politician thinking about having to report to his superiors, the general thinking about his men, and the scientist face to face with the horrific facts they need to openly acknowledge.
I love how this scene completely reverse the characters. Here we have the Soldier and the politician knowing what they have to do, but is trying so hard to come up with another option to deal with the graphite on the roof. Anything to not send men up there to their deaths. Drinking to make it easier to speak their mind.
Then the scientist who is shown to be soft and naive. He cares more about the people more than anything. He suggest “bio robots.” Humans to be sent up. He looks like he couldn’t be bothered or is trying to disassociate the men by calling them “bio robots.” The politician is shocked by this but ultimately agrees. He gives the soldier the order and the soldier follows orders. Sadden that he will be sending men to their deaths.
The writing, the acting ... wow
I wish some of my meetings are like this. Shooting out hair-brained ideas while drinking shots. Each idea more silly than the next until we find out something that works
In Soviet Union humans do jobs that are too dangerous for robots
😂
Warhammer 40k sounds crazy when you realize they power their ships with people sacrficing themselves. But then real life does stuff like this
they did actually use more robots first, but they failed too.
Something about listening to these men throw out ideas on how to solve this catastrophe while a pouring rain hits off the roof protecting them from it and the outside. The atmosphere that’s created in this scene is not only terrifyingly hopeless, but also relaxing.
How about catapulting bags of grafite and sand into the hole?
Boron and sand were air-dropped to put out the core fire, which melted into lava known as corium and spilled down below the reactor creating the infamous Elephant's Foot. The problem here is the graphite that was ejected from the core in the explosion, is far too radioactive to be left there, but will kill anyone who goes near it within 3 minutes.
you want to put an open reactor under siege ? :))))
yes, and wile e coyote could operate it
@@zmajodnocaja5088 LOL
@@zmajodnocaja5088 don't you give ACME industry more ideas!
“Why don’t we shot the graphite”
They proceed to tell him it’s dumb
*Drinks vodka*
I wonder why couldnt they use water to blast the small-mid range objects into the reactor. They were quenching it anyway. Just take a bunch of firehoses up to the roof and have at it.
there is always a 'genius' there. what do you know about the infrastructure there? and i hope you realise that these hoses would be contaminated within minutes, and could not be used any more afterwards? every shovel used was used only for 90 seconds.
@@zmajodnocaja5088 And there is always a bigger genius to reply.
There was water there, firetrucks and hoses. If a hose gets contaminated...so what. Better contaminate a hose instead of a human being. And it wouldnt get contaminated in minutes. A shovel touches the graphite...a hose would shoot water at a distance( there are water cannons that shoot water over 200m ).
The amount of radiation exposure is not inversely proportional to the distance from the radiation source, but is inversely proportional to the square of the distance.
The distance that a hose can put between a person and graphite would make a huge difference.
@@UninstallingWindows, the water would be contaminated...and harder to control afterwards than shovels and equipment. Plus the volume of water needed to move ALL of the debris into the hole would be massive. Far more than they could hope to contain.
It's an interesting idea, but not as feasible as it first appears.
@@dclark142002 They wouldn't have to move "All" the objects into the hole, just small/mid sized stuff. The stuff that sticks to you when you walk on it, or dust that can be blown into the wind. The amount of water would be trivial overall since firefighters had already pumped tonnes of water into the building + they kept trying to cool the fuel anyways. Also blown off roof + regular rain = contaminated water anyways. It's better to blast the radioactive debris and fine dust particles into the reactor where they wouldn't get blown away by the wind.
Armchair reactor expert
This scene is so good I had to replay it again
I'm curious if had they tried to use cranes equipped with huge, heavy sheets to 'sweep' the graphite off the roof and into the hole over the railing, would that have worked?
You'd require only a handful of operators at most.
I assume it would take too long to do since they are running out of time and favor to ask. The "bio-robots" idea is literally their Hail Mary at this point, since if that fails, they are pretty much screwed
Unreal series. Very nicely done. You cant even find out how many men/ women/kids actually died fighting this abomination. You will never know. You cant learn from a catastophe if you dont know all the details. Governments and the people will continually make these mistakes over and over because of fear and lack of knowledge. People will continually be put in danger. Here we are! The future.! Awesome right?
The silence in the end tho😅
“That’s messed up…but you’re right”
What they needed was Cid there to use his Eikon Ramuh to blow the material off the roof.
I do appreciate that they all knew sending in men would be an option but because it's a deadly option they are having this conversation - to find a solution that would not endanger men. Unfortunately, the situation is too dire for other solutions and they must resort to condemning men to death in order to save millions of lives. Tough decision but necessary discussion.
Can they not get help from america because of the cold war?
same thing happened with the Kursk disaster in 2000
Yup, same reason the US lied about (among other things) some of our (admittedly, and thankfully) smaller nuclear incidents.
It was a mad M.A.D.-world.
They technically can but they don't want to
Well American doctors went to Moscow to do bone marrow transplant for some of the victims. We were absolutely willing to share some of the technology with the Russians.
@@dynamicworlds1 is that all you can do, shittalking America? Pathetic.
You have a politician and a soldier and yet it’s the scientists who says “throw troops at it” even if that is the only option I find that darkly funny
My question is did the Central Committee approach the US Government even in a back channel way for help?
what help? what could they have possibly helped with?
@@zmajodnocaja5088 Robots, materials, equipment, subject matter experts, you know, all the things they needed.
I doubt the Kremlin had any desire to admit, even in private, that they created a potential global catastrophe. Especially to the United States of all nations during the time.
Funny how they initially are avoiding the idea of using hoards of people in small intervals, yet they are sitting in a leaky tent with radioactive rain falling on them…
I like how each of them pound their respective glasses of vodka after their idea gets shot down.
When all 3 parties run out of ideas that human sacrifice in the only way,
These guys are all dead. You can literally hear the radiation in the background.
I just checked - 2 liters of lead would weigh over 22 kilograms.
10 liters - 110 kilograms
how much can a helicopter lift, im guessing a couple hundred kilograms max.
50 liters would weight half a ton. and looking at the massive amount of space there, they'd need like 50k liters.
The Soviet Mi-26 could lift 20,000kg.
But yes, to use lead they would have needed ... more lead than they could get, and some way to melt it, and hundreds of flights at least, and ... here's the thing about dropping stuff: the further away you are, the less accurate you are. So you are looking at a terrible trade-off: if they fly high, they don't put all the lead exactly where it needs to go, so you need more lead and more flights (and more chances for something to go horribly wrong). Or they fly low and then they are closer to the source of the radiation so they run a much greater risk of getting sick, causing an accident, ...
Using people can begin immediately and will definitely work. It will also definitely kill some people.
There are no good options.
@@spyone4828 And lead itself is highly toxic as well, so spraying that over a large area isnt the best idea
Do you think the U.S. would've had something that would work? 🤔
Hard to say... but I’d imagine tiger teams at places like General Atomics, Lockheed SW, or JPL would have loved to have taken a crack at the problem. Of course, it’s likely they would’ve received the same “propaganda number” the Germans received concerning the radiation levels.
A mechanical robot that's what I would used
They used ROVs at TMI. Of the radiation levels were a lot less.
Late to the party, but im sure somewhere there are plans on how to deal with this
I don't think we even have the technology now. A lot of the deconstruction of the Chernobyl sarcophagus is done by hand and there are still places that will fry electronic devices.
One thing I have wondered about since seeing this scene is if they could have suspended a bulldozer blade from a helicopter with cables and then dragged it across the roof.
Just wondering.
The helicopter would then fly over the core at some point, then youd have two dead mean flying.
@@Darksky1001able They might have been able to avoid that with some careful maneuvering, but I do see your point.
@@commanderjonas5528 On paper this sounds Ok. But it will be difficult to control the dozer no matter how carefull you maneuver.
why couldn't they build a ramp up to the roof and drive a fleet of bulldozers up there? if only i was in that room, i'd get the order of lenin for sure.
@@jbard9892 That would be a hell of an accomplishment, considering Lenin had been dead for 62 years.
So my brother and I were talking about what could be done about Marsha and we both came up with the same idea. Attach a broom like tool to the end of a construction crane and use that to push the graphite. The end of a crane would have no necessary electronics that the radiation would destroy and the rest of the crane would be far enough away that the radiation wouldn’t effect its operation. Would this work or are my brother and I just idiots? Lol
I kinda thought the same, though the height and how near it must be may made it impossible.
I thought attaching a broom like tool to a helicopter, but seeing the size of the debris, I doubt it would have been enough to remove all the graphite.
When there's no other option.
I like the lead idea
Wonder if water cannons or high pressure fire hoses could have worked.
maybe for smaller pieces, but when it comes to moving those large chunks that require multiple men, unlikely. Assuming they do have such a machine that could proved enough pressure to move those chunks it would be too big to place on a roof assuming said machine is not normally bolted down to the ground.
No. You basically make radioactive steam and the temp was so high it would evaporate before it could touch. Radioactive fire needs solid matter to beat
Maybe a traveling crane could have worked on the roofs....
the hoses would become contaminated in two minutes, and it is questionable whether they would work on larger chunks.
Yeah,and who operates thos up there? You die in seconds.
Three people arguing, a scientist, a politician and a soldier. The soldier and the politician are in a debate about how to make a simingly impossible task, possible.
The politician comes up with a scientific way, by using lead. The soldier quickly picks the idea apart with reality. He now suggests to use guns/weapons to get rid of the problem. The politician only finds a laugh to this insane idea, as it would only make new problems, than solve any existing ones. Now the politician tries anew, by suggesting a robot, a better robot than the ones they used before. The soldier, again, explains, there is no "better" robot and if there was, they wouldn't get it.
A silence surrounds the three man.
"Bio-Robots", the scientist says, breaking the silence. The politician and soldier don't understand at first, but then the scientist explains. "Men", and the both of them understand.
Neither the soldier nor the politician would never come up with the idea to use their own men for such a suicidal task, only the scientist.
Beautifully put
they all knew the answer, yet none of them wanted to say it.
1:55...when a Soviet politician considers asking the Americans for technology, you know they've reached critical point. But this is the problem with bad faith between nations: at the moment one is in trouble and realizes that what it has is worthless, it has to decide: does it keep convincing itself that a solution will be found or does it swallow its pride and asks for help?
The thing about the Soviets is that most of its technology was a knockoff copy of what the West had so it couldn't compare. Not only were designs rushed without regards to impacts, they were also inefficient and hazardous. This scene is the acknowledgement that the Soviets, for all their public grandstanding, can't even ensure that this disaster is taken care of.
I liked tv show a lot. But you do realise that Soviets were actually ahead of West in a lot of ways. Military devices, space rockets(for a long time), space suits, even power plants(this one failed not because of bad technology, but because some morons didn't apply normal safety procedures). Soviet Russia is not a fucking hell pit. It was a country with a political power. Some good, some bad. Same way Americans whose view on USSR is built on Western brilliant use of fictional storytelling for political propaganda purposes. Same way, most USSR citizens were indoctrinated by Soviet brilliant use of ordinary people morals for political propaganda purposes. Thinking that Western civilization are all sex, sex, sex, sex, aids, aids, aids. Everyone is naked, fucking children and greedy as f.
@@DvornyashkaDiaries All safety procedures were followed.
"but surely glorious soviet reactor never blow up!"
why not install a crane, weld some pretty long stick with like 10cm in diameter and push the debris from the roof with that..?
This ignores the actual history. The alternative proposal wasn’t pouring lead on the roof. The alternative proposal was to build a crane big enough to reach the roof. An operator sitting in a lead lined cab would then sweep the roof clean.
It was rejected because if a fire started again they wouldn’t be able to fly helicopters close to the reactor building without risking one going down, like had already happened with a crane.
I'm sure there's a reason they didn't use a crane...
They actually did use the crane, at least in real life. The problem was that crane’s don’t really have the dexterity to grab tiny pieces of graphite, but nevertheless, there’s a radioactive gripping claw in Pripyat
@@BTW4LK I wasn't even thinking about gripping anything, just pushing. Maybe a bit of a Wile E. Coyote plan, but I'm thinking of a steel girder, maybe three meters long. Drop it down to the rooftop, then "wipe" toward the pit. No electrical components need to go near any radioactive material.
On other crazy parts of the whiteboard, my first thought when they had to put boron on the fire was "catapults."
was the vehicle covered at the beginning of the scene to prevent or minimize radioactive rainwater from touching it?
They look down and realize "yeah, we've been through every sensible and stupid idea, and nothing will work, it's gonna be men... and they will die..."
We must do this shit in our jobs, let's relax drinking vodka, we discuss our ideas to solve the company's problems
Vodka does help with radiation tough
Legasov there like wtf am I listening
And now russian literally use canon to hit chernobyl. Epic
Nope. Russian and Ukrainian forces agreed to call a ceasefire shortly after clashes near Chernobyl in February-March after the station got hit several times by tank shells, and had a joint team overseeing its work. After our forces got beaten and retreated east, Ukrainian army once again took ahold of it and there has been no fighting whatsoever there as far as I'm concerned. The nuclear station you probably mean is Zaporozhskaya.
Send prisoners to clear it off. Each one gets their sentence cut by 35%
Along with their life expectancy.
Thats a fucked up way to do things, even if they are prisoners. Because not all prisoners are there for rape, murder or trafficking. I say this because this is the Soviet Union, alot of good people would be sent straight to their deaths because they were deemed "suspicious" or other.
@@Darksky1001able Yeah. There was an infamous case about a little boy who got sentenced to 5 years in prison for stealing a sack of potatoes. Funny enough, it happened again in modern Russia and another boy got 8 years for the same damn thing.
If countries can’t set aside their petty differences to literally save planet earth from global extinction we are doomed as a species.
Acid Rain!
Dump vodka on it.
Ironic how the world turns to America for answers they do not have....
Well first they went to the Germans, but unfortunately they were given the propoganda number.
It's hilarious how the russian critique of this film was that they drank too much. Brother...
If they needed to move the items on the roof why not a fire hose? High pressure, delivery by a generator, non-flammable, etc. If not, why not?
Total amount of water required that would then be contaminated and need to be contained...
Plus the H (hidrogen) atom inside water combine with nuclear fission....yep, hiroshima got the taste of it
Water guided through high pressure hose towards radioactive graphite? With those H2 atoms in the water, all that we need is a small accidental spark somewhere and Bam!!!!
Take a light/small russian car, rip off its roof, hood, trunk, all the seats and other unnecessary accessories/weight and the russian cars back then did not need any electronics to operate except to start the engine which can be easily fixed. Attach a plow at the front_ the whole thing can be less than 2000 pounds distributed among 4 wheels which is easily tolerated by the structure/roof, especially that we are talking about the roof of a nuclear facility which is over designed to bear possible missile attacks and nuclear explosions. No need for soldiers to carry each piece by shovel and walk around in confusion. Just plow the whole mess away into the core.
Even better, if that building can be disposed of, just detonate the columns of th side adjacent to the core, andlet the building collapse-roll into/over the core with all the graphite it contains.
Nice
You’d think Americans wouldn’t have a monopoly on high tech. Definitely Japanese, French, UK or Israel
I like how they seemed shocked at the idea, lol. The Soviet Union already viewed its citizens as bio-robots.
This was 1986, not 1933
@@SloveneAnon Lol, yeah, the system magically became fair and humane after Stalin died.
Read up on Khurschev and Destalinisation
It's like when they had to as Gorbachev if they could order 3 men to their deaths. It was almost a taboo then in Russian to just do that, or even suggest it. The Russians were trying hard to fix their image at that point of the cold war.
@@jasoncarswell7458 lol as if the US was fair and humane at that time either.
Let's actually not let ideology blind us to reality and actually try and _learn_ something from this series, please.
Truly a masterpiece among mostly cringey TV shows of the last decade !
Fuckin people...
Next time send women to do these jobs as well … equality and all. 😂
The Americans did have robots. But you would be forced update the software every year, at which point we slow your robot down. We slow it so much that you are forced buy an entire new robot the next year and the cycle becomes endless. WHY?? Because United States of Capitalism.