Greetings from Poland, I'm curious, why Severoslavia didn't colonize Siberia and central Asia, like Russia in our reality or didn't create a puppet state/states?
@@rafakrzentowski9549 I did cover it briefly in part 1, but essentially they would have been a lot more involved in European politics, and thus wouldn't have focuses as many resources on colonization of Siberia. The main power in the Commonwealth, Poland, wouldn't have had the same motivations as Russia either. One major reason why Russia colonized Siberia was so that they never had to be subjugated by any Mongol-like hordes again. They wanted a defendable border and kept on expanding till they reached the sea. Poland would not have had this same motivation. Nevertheless much of Siberia was colonized by Russians in this timeline. To the east of Severoslavia is the Siberian republic, which is a close ally of Severoslavia. The minor Russian Kingdoms further east fell under Chinese influence.
Can we appreciate the attention to detail in this video? We can see in this world Scandinavia is mostly identical to Neatling's Scandinavia, Germany and Austria stayed united after the WW2, Yugoslavia never feel (probably cause of Severoslavia being the big Slavic brother), Greece holds Constantinople and Cyprus, Armenia is in their ancestral territory (both from a weaker ottoman empire most likely), there is pseudo-Alash Orda state in central Asia since there wasn't massive Russian expansion in the area and east of the Urals there is a probable cossack state from the breakaway "colony" since the commonwealth didn't want to expand eastward as Russia did. Another great video, Neatling doesn't miss.
when is the 3rd part for "what if eastern Rome recovered after the fall" coming out because the idea that china the US and Rome being in a 3 way cold war is very interesting.
I don't really have a proper schedule at the moment, so just when I get to it. Is there anything in particular you would want me to focus on in it? It sounds like you're mostly interested in the geopolitics of it. So like a run-down of the alternate cold war? And perhaps an overview of some of the alternate countries like I did with part 3 in my old Byzantine series.
@@Neatling basically it would be very cool to see a very interesting geopolitical situation in Europe and the rest of the world. With Europe mainly split between Rome and the US that could create a more unified Rome and may result in more border conflicts. With china it would be very interesting to see your takes on proxy wars and puppet nations. we may see the West unite against the east or we could have an absolute free for all :) whatever you find interesting go for it it is your video after all
1. Poland in 19th and 20th century had a gigantic number of Polish Nationals, living outside of Poland, due to partitions in 18th century, and then again, those who fled durring World War 2 and never returned to the Comunist Controlled country. In 1990s it was estimated that there was arround 60mln of Poles living outside of Poland, on top of 40mln living inside of it. If throughout all this timeline, Poland was actualy a superpower, instead of conquered warzone, most of those people would never leave, ergo - estimating polish population in your scenario (as much as I find it super unlikely) is VERY conservative at 60mln. It would easly have been arround 100mln if not even more due to grater prosperity. 2. If Polish-Lithuanian commonwealth never fell, and remained cohesive durring entire 20th century too, it is very likely that most of population of Duchy of Lithuania, and Ruthenia (Ukraine), would have been very very polonised culturaly and linguisticaly. Even in our timeline, by the end of 18th century, vast mayority of citizens of Duchy of Lithuania, allready considered themselves as much Polish as Lithuanian, and mostly spoke in Polish. With 2 more centuries of cultural takeover, it is very likely that Polish would have become a dominant languague for most of the "Empire", with the exception of maybe ethnic Russian territories, that would probably by slowly turning as well. Russians did this inside their Empire, it is likely it would have happened inside this one too. 3. Despite its huge territory and population, I dont think it would have been world superpower, without controll of Siberia, and through that - entirety of Asia, it is not in the greatest position geopoliticaly. Without a great conection to the world Oceans, beeing still wedged into the corner of Europe, it would remain slightly backwards country used by the Anglo-Saxons to balance Germany. USSR became an economic and technological powerhouse, due to their harrowing experiences of the WW2. The horrors of the war, cemented resolve and pride of the peoples of the country, giving them fervor and purpose - that allowed USSR to be a serious threat even to US untill 1970s, when those sentiments waned, making people aware of their poverty and missery compared to the west. Without that boost to the Soviet spirit the WW2 gave, Russia would never achive such heights it had in 1960s, and neighter would this country you propose. Cheers.
Being of both Polish AND Lithuanian descent, this would be awesome! I like the way you kept it a union of country states and that morals were kept and expansionism was curtailed for several hundred years because all was going smoothly enough for the principalities
Ideas for future videos What if the Teutonic Order stayed in Hungary What if the Huns conquered Eastern Europe What if Japan became a colonial empire What if Otto the third realized his concept of the HRE PS. I greatly enjoy your videos, keep up the good work
I have three points to add to fine-tune this scenario: 1. even IF Severoslavia was not interested in expanding all the way into Siberia, it would have taken a buffer area on the Asian side of the Urals... so in case of invasion, they could defend against the mountains rather than defend against an enemy that was coming down and was fortified into the mountains. This would have been obvious to any strategist at any time. 2. Czechs and Slovaks are linguistically and culturally Western Slavs, very close to the Poles, they would have been offered a membership. 3. During the time that this union was formed, there were still Western Slavs living in and native to current Eastern Germany, they were being colonized and absorbed by the Germans, and these Slavs may have asked for help, probably would have gotten it and with all the other Slavs united, would have been saved from extinction.
I really appreciate it man. And thank you so much for becoming a member! At the moment the perks are mainly sneak-peaks for future videos, as well as easier direct communication with me if you have any suggestions or questions. One of my members suggested making this follow up video for instance.
I think you went "too big" with adding Russia... but overall you should explore idea of Three Seas which was suggested by Józef Piłsudski. It's said that it might be finally done through Via Carpathia road project
Good vid, but Warsaw really REALLY wouldn't make European Russia a single subnational entity. Besides Muscovy at the time of union in your scenario itself being freshly united, there would probably zero controversy to split it up again in Novgorod, etc., and the people wouldn't terribly mind. Also there's no reason for anything south of the Volga to belong to it, since everything was conquered by PL. But the main reason is that they would want to balkanize it and promote minority cultures to keep it manageable, and this is not hard since you aren't splitting up a nation against its will, since in this scenario it isn't one.
Maybe do the Outremer next? Basically the Levant and Iraq/Kuwait, with it's borders being the inland deserts of Arabia and the Hejaz mountains in the South, the Iranian and Anatolian mountain ranges in the North and East, and either the Sinai peninsula or the Suez canal in the South-west? It's formation could've come about by a more upfront and reciprocal relationship between the crusader forces and the Byzantines, as well as a better vetting process for crusaders, basically hiring knights and professional soldiery rather than peasantry told they can do whatever and God will still love them. Not gonna pretend the crusaders were as saintly as they were sold to be, but some amongst the leadership genuinely preferred conversion by word to conversion by sword. Maybe some sort of pan-Abrahamism emerges, where Christianity, Islam and Judaism are all relatively co-equal faiths? Hell, maybe even a zoroastrian minority emerges?
So interesting! I watched both series. But there're certain parts that I disagree (for example I don't see why Finland would leave the Rzeczpospolita. The only explanation is that the rise of nationalism still happend, and the Rzeczpospolita, or 'serveroslavia' or Northern-Slavia is by its name, Slavic majority, but I think for the Rzeczpospolita to really survive, she should be able to provide an alternative to ethnic nationalism and be a pioneer of 'post-nationalism' in Europe). And also, especially as sb. who's from China but living in America in the current time line. I found myself interested in painting my version of the international picture, especially how America and China rose to become superpowers in this timeline. I'm going to divide it in to several parts to be commented by myself. Also, to reflect my version, I would refer the modern day commonwealth by the name, 'Rzeczpospolita', which frankly, does not suggest the head of state is monarchy or presidential or whatsoever in the language context of Polish. Hence, I believe that the commonwealth would most likely be called 'the Rzeczpospolita' internationally, just like how the USA is usually preferred to be called 'US' or 'United States' (US Army, POTUS, etc.), which has no indication of its geography or demographics.
Part I: The Rzeczpospolita up until 'the great war' & aftermath: For the earlier stages I would say I overall agree with ur Part I. However with some major differences. As I described. I don't see Finland leaving the Rzeczpospolita like ever. However, it would eventually not become any of the 4 constituents u described in Part II of your videos here. Hence, it might be elevated as the 5th constituent state of the Rzeczpospolita, eventually getting equal rights as the other 4 more 'Slavic' counterparts. Also, under this scenario, the Brandenburg (a state of HRE, eventually led by Austria)- Prussia (a duchy under, well, Warsaw, as a constituent of the Rzeczpospolita) will still happen. However, as the Rzeczpospolita is stronger, and like you mentioned, won wars such as the thirty year war, the great Northern war, and eliminated Sweden as a power (which played an important role of Prussia seceding from the Rzeczpospolita), the merger would rather result in the new Brandenburg-Prussia as a Dutchy of the Rzeczpospolita, which would eventually also become an equal constituent. And again, I think it's possible because ethnic diversity & tolerance is a core identity of this entity, and in order for her to be truly successful there needs to be significant non-Slavic ppl, like Finnish & Prussian Germans, to feel comfortable identifying as an integral part of the Rzeczpospolita. Hence, other major cities that would eventually become part of Rzeczpospolita include Helsinki &, Berlin. I tbh don't know what history of the city of Berlin would be like should the Brandenburg-Prussia be part of the Rzeczpospolita but I do think eventually the region around Berlin would see great development, and become a major cultural center of German speaking ppl under the Rzeczpospolita. I really can't see how the Rzeczpospolita will act in the rise of Napoleon. Or the French revolution in general. As the 1st coalition against France was due to the revolution, & at that time Napoleon didn't rise yet. And the reason is that most other powers in our timeline by the time of the great French revolution were authoritarian & feudalistic absolute monarchies, like the Romanovs, the Habsburgs and the Prussians (forgot their last name). However, while the Rzeczpospolita might still be a feudalistic, and see diversity & local autonomy as an integral part, it's also not an absolute monarchy, and political participation is increasingly spread to the wider population. Hence it's likely that it has no real interest in involving in the French revolution. However the French revolution still impacts the Habsburgs & even the Italians severely. So I see the unification of the Austrian Empire under the Habsburgs, including most of today's Germany as well as Hungary & Balkans where Habsburgs did control in our timeline, moved way forward, and an Austrian-German empire would probably form in the earlier half of the 19th century. Italian unification & Greek unification would also be earlier, and they would form the central powers in Europe during the great war in the earliest half of the 20th century. In return, the entente formed between London, Paris & Warsaw. And in Europe the entente secured a decisive victory. Which means it's time to dissolve the 3 a.m. autoritarian empires, under the name of democracy & self-determination. Under this scenario, as well as the fact that the losers probably still don't get to dictate terms, the Vienna-based Austrian-German empire would still definitely lose Bohemia. But it might be annexed by the Rzeczpospolita instead. And especially the NW parts, including even Prague, would become part of Prussia, which remember, is now a member state of the Rzeczpospolita. The more 'Czech' or 'Slavic' parts of modern day Czechia would be part of Poland instead And since Hungary-Poland 'friendship' has dated back to the earlier P-L commonwealth, I see this 'friendship' keeping on, culminating in Hungarians forming resistance & insurgent movements against Habsburg rule, largely funded by Warsaw, as an important part in finally destroying the Habsburg empire. Hence, Hungary might also actually join the Rzeczpospolita after breaking free from Vienna, and become the 7th constituent state of the Rzeczpospolita. Bringing important cities, such as Budapest, but also most of today's Slovakia, as well as parts of Transylvania, Slovenia, etc. into the Rzeczpospolita. This coupled with likely more secession from Italy would give the Rzeczpospolita access to the Adriatic/Mediterranean Sea just west of the Balkans. The then 'monarch' of the Rzeczpospolita would hold titles including: King of Poland, King of Hungary, Tsar of Russia, Grand Duke of Prussia, Grand Duke of Lithuania, Grand Duke of Ruthenia, and whatever of Finland, at the end of the 'great (world) war'. And might even be given a title that's like the 'emperor' or sth like that. However the title would be though, that would, like it always has been, a figurehead, with the federal Congress or Parliament having to pass most laws, and electing the government, led by a prime minister or 'chancellor' or whatever. And local autonomy means each member state & even lower localities like cities, towns, regions, whatever, what still have their autonomous powers. And if there's a name change, the Rzeczpospolita would now be called Rzeczpospolita Intermarium (a term coined by Pilsuski in our timeline, literally meaning, 'between the seas'), as it does has access to both Black & Baltic seas, and now even has some ports in the Adriatic sea. (Hence I'll also call it RI later for simplicity) The rest of the Balkans, breaking free from Austra-Germany, Italy & Greece, would form their own 'Rzeczpospolita', and likely keeping that name as there's still a Slavic plurality, if not majority. (Calling themselves Rzeczpospolita Balkan or sth like that, which I'll write RB). This would include: Bulgaria, Romania, Albania, and Yugoslavia, either as a whole or separate entity. Of course some might not join, or this might not even be formed, but in whatever form, this 'Rzeczpospolita Balkan' or not, would be a firm ally of the Rzeczpospolita (Intermarium), the successor of the P-L commonwealth. They might also just join the RI, but I don't RI annexing the entirety of Balkans as likely. If the state IS formed, their capital might be moved to Constantinople, as it's an important city for orthodox Christians, which is probably the majority of this Balkan entity. And this city is probably not gonna be in the hands of either the Greeks or the Turks after this war. So, we have an interesting situation in Europe after the war, which almost look like an 'iron curtain' for pure political boarders. States that were in the communist bloc in our time line, such as all Slavic nations including Yugoslav ppl, Albania, Romania, Bulgaria, as well as the Baltic states, AND the Finnish, AND the Hungarians, AND the Eastern part of our timeline's Germany, surrounding Berlin & Brandenburg, would either be a part of the RI or a part of the RB, which are allies of each other. While the western European nations will draw closer together, eventually forming the EU.
Part II: Rise of China & America, the great war in Asia, the 'decolonization war' ('cold' war in Europe, 'hot' war in the rest of the world, including the American Japanese Naval wars), and the worldwide 'cold war' & iron curtain: For this to happen, the root cause would be, again, colonialnism. And under this timeline, Spain, Portugal, followed by Britain & France, and eventually Italy, Austria-Germany, and even Greece, would continue colonial expansions, including into Africa & Asia. And that would also create another tension point for the great war to break out. And given our pretext of this timeline, this is very realistic, in fact very likely. With the Rzeczpospolita firmly uniting the East & the Eurasian link, there's only more, incentive, for western European power to colonize. Not to mention Columbus was like 100 years earlier than the Rzeczpospolita conquest, and in this timeline, annexation of Russia. However, eventually, probably also around the time of the Napoleonic wars, the USA would declare its independence from the British Empire. And eventually she grew from coast to coast, and enforced the Monroe doctrine which kicked all European powers, most notably Spain & Portugal, from the Americas, and preventing any other European powers, whether that's Britain or France, or Italy, Greece or German-Austria, from claiming significant, 'anti-American', spheres of influence in the new world, making the new world a firm American sphere of influence. At the same time, the European powers would still scramble Africa & Asia, chipping into traditional Chinese spheres of influence such as SE Asia. The winner of the scramble would still be Britian & France, along with likely allies eventually such as Belgium and Netherlands, hence they're seen as the worst enemies of China in Asia, as they continue expanding their empires there. Also, since China (at that time still ruled by the Qing Empire, and it likely won't fall until the great war) is more or less competing with Warsaw (and maybe Turkey too) for Siberia, or even central Asia, much like Chinese-Russian competition in our timeline. Hence, when the entente formed, China joined the central powers, aiming to once and for all reclaim her failing position as the leader of Asia. Leading the UK & France supporting other, anti-Chinese powers in Asia. Most notably, Japan. And of course India by then would probably still be colonized eventually. Hence, the war also eventually broke out in Asia. And China in this timeline would still more or less suffer the same problems as Qing Empire in the real timeline, like a less advanced socioeconomic system, leading to its utter defeat by an alliance of the entente & Japan in Asia. The situation of post-war China would be similar to that of post-WWI German, Russia & Ottoman empires combined. China would lose most of its influence in SE Asia (and maybe including parts such as Tibet and modern day southern China) to Europeans and maybe Japanese, and lose Taiwan & Korea, or even parts of Manchuria (which would include likes of Vladivostok as in this timeline the Rzeczpospolita wasn't THAT interested in expanding East & competing with China), to Japan. China would also be subject to harsh 'unequal' treaties like those in the real timeline. Both against China & the central powers. Hence, the Qing dynasty would eventually collapse, and there would be a nationalistic feverish in China, wanting to revenge against the enemies. This would really very likely mean that the new 'Republic' of China would be led by some authoritarian strong man. The overall policy would be more or less 'national socialism', combining populist, 'progressive' economic policies, such as cracking down big traditional institutions, massive gov. invest in infrastructure, forming of workers' orgs, etc., with socially conservative ideas, especially nationalism & national pride. However, for China to be truly become a 'superpower' eventually, Chinese version of 'fascism' would look more like Latin American than European. In that instead of creating castes within the diverse Chinese ethnical makeup under the Qing dynasty (which is Manchu minority ruling the Han majority, with others such as Mongols, Muslims, Tibetians, etc. Also the Han languages, like Mandarin VS Cantonese, is about as different as Polish VS Russian), a new, 'Chinese identity' would be formed, out of struggles against the 'imperialist invasions', transcending existing linguistic & ethnic lines. This new identity would also earn China allies in the anti-colonial resistance movements in SE Asia, Korea, Taiwan and even India, which are all now under either Western European or Japanese rule, which are brutal. Emulating how the earlier Soviet Union has sympathy around the world because of ideology. Meanwhile in Japan, thx to their unexpectedly huge victory in the war, and thx to the support of the Europeans like UK & France, militarism & imperialistic trends also start to rise. And they start to form a more 'ethnic homogeneous' version of national socialism. This would eventually mean, in a similar fashion of eventual Soviet-German war of our WW2, war b/w China & Japan is inevitable. Here, since China is also actively trying to kick Europeans out of Asia, and has earned trust of resistance movements, she again is seen as a threat to the interest of Western Europeans. Hence they continued their alliance with Japan. On the other hand Japan rose as a naval power & clashed with Americans. Hence Americans expanded their 'Monroe doctrine' to support a worldwide decolonization effort. Hence, a Sino-American ally formed, under the name of anti-colonialism, fought against Japan & European nations, led by Britan & France, but probably joined by Italy & German-Austria & Greece at this point, with the Western Europeans reversing course overnight & rearming those armies, in a devastating battle in Asia-Pacific. The RI & the RB would mostly stay out of the conflict, as they have little real interest in Asia. However, being liberal, they're more or less drawn to the idea of anti-imperialist struggle, especially when America joined. Also, practically, they see western EU nations holding colonies as the last obstacle to basically placing the entire Europe under their influence. Hence, they would likely be de facto more on the Sino-American side. And especially with UK-France rearming Germany it could piss the 2 Rzeczpospolita off. However they likely won't attack the likes of France & UK in Europe. Rather there would be more proxy wars, as well as 'unconventional warfare' such as economic sanctions, political destabilization, etc. against the Western European nations. Hence, eventually, the imperialists were totally defeated, and the Europeans lost all the colonies. Having already bonded with common interests, and now without colonies to back their strengths, they formed the EU (including UK, France, Austria-Germany, which includes west Germany & Austria, Italy & Greece, as well as long time 'allies' such as Netherland & Belgium. They might be later joined by the Scandinavians, Irish, Spanish/Portuguese, etc.) This EU would quickly look like an actual federation, with things like single market, single immigration & customs control, single currency, happening way faster and having way less resistance, and already having a unified army & justice & law enforcement system by now. Meanwhile in Asia, like you described most of the 'anti-colonial' governments were eventually to become authoritarian, China-aligned, basically puppet & 'satellite' governments, like how Eastern European communist regimes work. Such as Indochina, Myanmar, and even India. While there are some countries that formed American style democratic governments in Asia Pacific. Such as Japan, Korea (maybe South only), AU/NZ, very likely Indonesia & Malasia. Hence the new iron curtain falls in the oceans around China. Also, Siberia is divided into the Eastern portions which were controlled by China in one way or another, and the western portion that's aligned with RI/RB. Maybe parts of central Asia too. Extending the iron curtain North into central & northern Asia. Also, China-America competition would continue into places such like Africa & Middle East. In Europe, RI has always been liberal, and after those wars RI would become one of the most liberal & democratic major nations in the world. Her southern neighbor RB has always been a little less so since foundation. However, at this point it has been a 'flawed democracy' at worst. The member states of the EU would have always become all democracies at this point. After the war, the UN would still be formed in order to prevent another world war. And both China & US would gain a seat on the permanent security council, giving both right to veto any major decisions. Also RI would join soon, and maybe at their strong request, RB would join not much later. And eventually, the unified EU would take the 5th seat, creating the new 'P5' of the new world order.
You make some interesting points. For one, Poland was never Slavic oriented in its politics. The whole Panslavism idea is seen in Poland as an excuse for Russian colonialism, so you're right, we wouldn't change the name to anything like "Serveroslavia" whatever it means, or "Northern Slavia". The whole idea that Slavs are one big family is fairly new, coming from the 19th century, and is used by some to give them a sense of pride from being Slavic. But Poland takes its pride from its history and traditions that are much older than the Slavic ideology. Moreover, the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth wasn't meant to be Slavic. Lithuanians and Latvians aren't Slavs. Nor were the various Polish minorities like Prussians, Scots, Jews, Muslim Tatars or Armenians. For this purpose the nobles created a kind of early national identity that was above ethnicity or religion. The various nations of Rzeczpospolita stuck together until 1863 so nearly 100 years after Poland-Lithuania ceased to exist. Only then they embraced nationalism in order to engage the peasants in their fight for freedom. Also, the occupants played the nations against each other, which resulted in Polish poor relations with Ukrainians, Germans or Jews. Rzeczpospolita and Poland were the names used inside the country and they still are. The name used by foreigners was Poland, but perhaps it would be updated to something like the Latin Respublica. Internally the Kingdom of Poland was called "The Crown" and the Duchy of Lithuania "Lithuania" so for example the Polish armies constituted of the Crown Army and the Lithuanian Army, and they were led by Hetman Koronny (Crown Hetman) and Hetman Litewski (Lithuanian Hetman) respectively. In many battles and wars only one of the armies participated. Also, I see no reason for adopting the modern Russian flag for the Commonwealth. We do know how the Commonwealth reacted to the French Revolution. They were supportive at the beginning as they saw it as an attempt to create a parliamentary democracy in France. They were less supportive once the revolutionists killed a Polish noblewoman for no reason. What's more important the Progressives used the French Revolution as a threat in order to motivate the Conservatives to reforms which led to the May 3 Constitution, the first modern constitution in Europe which granted burghers equal rights with nobles, and gave peasants personal rights. My biggest problem with the alternative history is that Poland never wanted to annex Russia. Even if Władysław could become the Moscow tsar without converting to Orthodoxy, it'd still be nothing more than a personal union. Poland and Lithuania were in personal union for 200 years before creating the Commonwealth. The Duchy of Muscovy simply wasn't ready for that. Even today Russia could not be admitted. There's no way the Russian society is ready to become democratic. And the whole idea that bigger is better, as in countries of larger territories are better than the smaller ones is laughable. Russian GDP is smaller than that of Italy. Also, maintaining democracy over a large territory in the pre-industrial era wasn't easy. Before Poland-Lithuania there was no large democratic state in Europe. All the early democracies were city states. Poland figured it out by creating a strong political class and a direct democracy system, but that required deep democratic traditions. Every time a Polish king died it took ca 2 years to elect a new one. During those two years periods Poland-Lithuania were governed by local authorities. There were no problems with decision making. In fact the nobles had more political rights than we do today, but they also had the stron conviction that they're the owners of the country.
@neatling I have a great suggestion. what if you combined some of your alternate history and some new ones and make a playlist. on alternate timeline as in alternate world. like where your many alternate histories combine in 1 timeline. like for example ww1 isn't German vs world but ww1 is ROME vs SEVEROSLAVIA. or something.
@Neatling this is a much better video than the last one, you did put more thought into it. (although whole althist scenario is still wrong). 1st, expansion into Siberia wasn't a great deal, and as for western distractions, Russia had them as well so its a null argument. China only became interested in MANCHURIA, nothing more North, only after Russia had already conquered Primorsk from China. 2nd there were still movements that wanted to reform the commonwealth into absolute monarchy, or centralised dictatorial republic. 3rd. The 3rd of May Constitution effectively made Commonwealth/Poland into unitary state. 4th, Commonwealths magnates often did conquests of their own, example being attempts at conquests of Wallachia and Transylvania before Otties fully subjugated them. Even before the famous occupation of Moscow, magnates meddled into affairs of Russia. This said, Poland/Severoslavia would certainly have resources to fuel Siberian Expansion, even with wars against HRE and Otties respectively. Having France and Japan as natural allies, Britain, HRE/Germany* and Ottomans as natural enemies. *Having crushed Habsburgs and probably gained the Crown of Bohemia, Poland would be able to decide, either to dismantle HRE or give the crown to itself or France. Considering French Revolution/Napoleon and polish Constitution having occurred in same time irl, It's possible to assume, Poland would have gave green light for Napoleon to be HRE Emperor and gladly joined it's Continental System, undergoing similar political and ideological transformations. It is also very likely, that Poland-France border would not be only in Europe, but Northern America as well. I cannot project further how long this alliance would have worked, but its certain, that UK would be royally F.
what if Germany was united way earlier than it did in our timeline? Or what if Sampi was a country? or what if Finland was independent way before it was in our world (like, what if Finland was independent in 1400's?) Either way, I love your alternative histories having an episode about how they work in the present day!
great video and all,howerever i have to make a complaint:in the previous part of this alt history,polish-german broder was stopped along the our world's 1937 germany's borders (excluding east prussia,but including eastern pomerania and silesia),but in this this video,polish-german border goes along the ,,oder-naisse line'(the current polish-german border of our world).i dont mean to dislike just beacuse of this one error,but i kinda felt like pointing this out would be important.once again,other details of this video were out-right amazing and it deserves not only my ,but a like from a lot of people.i really hope neatling will respond to this :)
The reason I changed it was that I though Severoslavia would take more following the great war with Germany. There would more than likely be an irredentist push for it since Slavs used to live there before the German migration east several centuries earlier. And in my scenario Severoslavia did control eastern Pomerania for a short period. So again, they simply take it following the great war. Oh and worth mentioning is also that the border technically is slightly different than the real world Polish-German border. In the real world it diverges a bit from the rivers so that Poland has Szczecin. In this alternate history scenario it follows the river and Germany keeps Stettin. Minor difference, but hey, there it is.
i understand the motive of yours,neatling,but the thing is that if severoslavia did take those aformetioned lands(east pomerania+silsia),that would be kind of a overstretch.plus,since the germans already took these lands from the slavic tribe inhabiting it in 6-7th century(i think,i might be wrong here),taking these lands in the peace traty would give this commonwealth around few million germans inhabiting the said regions.surely,it would take a lot of displacement and deportation of these couple million germans,which wouldnt be easy.(as long as you're not joseph stalin,lol),and also the most based,but the 3rd reason why-is that the germany of this world kinda had borders of germany of our world+austria+stettin,which was pretty disgusting borders. oh,and abouth the current polish-german border-its only away from the oder river in the north,the city of stettin(or szczecin,in polish).in the other places,it fits perfectly along the rivers of oder in the centre and river naisse-in the south. again,i understand why did you make this slight edit,and i'm not either the best mapper,historian or an advisor in this topic.this was simply a minor inconvinience that i was concerned about.just do it the way it suits you the most.
@@Neatling Well in my theory the Polish-German boarder would be almost the East-West German boarder during the cold war. Because I think with the Rzeczpospolita so strong the Habsburg would be never in the position of asking Warsaw for Prussia. And after Brandenburg-Prussia the only thing might happen is that they do form an actual union, but now under the Warsaw Rzeczpospolita crown. And in the subsequent Austria unification of Germany, there's also no way that they will have Prussia. And it makes sense as if I remembered correctly, the Habsburgs were more or less Catholic, and that's why they started the 30 year war partially. However Prussian Germans were already Protestants. However the Rzeczpospolita would have always agreed to religious freedom, and their system have always been more liberal than the Habsburgs. And with Lithuanians and Finnish who won't leave the union by any means at any time from my theory, it's not that German identity of Prussia is under great threat. Hence that's why I prefer to use Rzeczpospolita or Intermarium instead of Seveslavia, indicating that this union is not only for Slavic people. So under my theory Prussia would always be part of the Commonwealth instead, as the largest non-Slavic constituent. They would eventually extend as west as Berlin through the Brandenburg union, and annex parts of Czechia (Bohemia/Moravia) from Austria after the great war, because of the significant Germans living there.
Well in my theory Prussia will stay in the Commonwealth and the Habsburgs can only dream of getting it with a Commonwealth so strong. And the Brandenburg Prussia union would result in HRE losing Brandenburg to the Commonwealth, not the vice versa. Hence the border would extend way west. To include Brandenburg, which includes Berlin.
Also. I don't see how an 1937 boarder is a solution as East Prussia is now disconnected with the rest of Germany. In the interwar years there was a 'solution' which is more or less seen as a 'compromise' that is the Danzig free city & corridor (Gdansk in Polish). And I don't see Habsurgs asking Warsaw to do any of that under any circumstance under this scenario. Also Gdansk would always be part of Poland in this scenario as it was part of 'Royal Prussia' which stayed part of the commonwealth until the 1st partition which won't happen here. And if I remembered corrected Royal Prussia had a longer coast line on the Baltics. That means East Prussia would become like a disconnected 'colony' of the eventually unified German Empire under Austria (Habsburgs) and it's easy for Warsaw to try to take that even earlier. And given that both countries are more or less 'federalized' it's kinda 'legally' easy for Poland to get East Prussia from Austria as well.
@@ladahieno2382 Yeah like the turks as a people would exist in Anatolia but they would never get out of Anatolia maybe cause of a Byzantine pushback or something, that would be the idea, it would be intersting to see what Will happen cause the Ottomans really changed something in the european history and world history as a whole
emm over the years they would be Polonized, and besides, this country would probably become at the turn of the 19th century, the Union of the Slavs, so the Russians think that they would always feel good, they would always like the "Union of the Slavs "
@@birb2330 they probably wouldn't be to happy not having Siberia , being a cossack and conquering and exploring new lands to the east was an important part of Russian culture and history and politics if the commonwealth wont expand there then that would be enough of a reason for a schism to occur
@@constantinethecataphract5949 according to this scenario, the minority of the Russian population is Orthodox, more is Christians , And xd? They never had Siberia in this Univesrum, so why would they have it? Only in the short term.
@@birb2330 orthodox christianity IS christianity, there are just multiple branches of it. There's anglican christianity, protestant christianity, catholic christianity, orthodox christianity and some other minor ones.
@neatling please make a video on what if china became a semi-democratic nation after reforms to their communist government similar to your what if Russia abandoned communism.
Towards the end of part 1 you start referring to the country as a republic. So supposedly it does not have a momarch and is not a constitutional monarchy as said in this video?
how is Uzbekistan double landlocked? Kazakhstan literally is connected to sea, if it has to be an ocean its connected to then why isn’t Moldova double landlocked, as Romania and Ukraine don’t directly border the sea, some please explain
Their metropolitan areas are almost even in the real world. But in this scenario I simply imagine the coastal port cities would have grown a lot more. Particularly those not in Russia. St. Petersburg isn't really an ideal port, it was just Russia's only non-arctic port in the Baltic for a while. So as the Commonwealth has plenty of Baltic coastline for most of its history, Gdansk and Riga grow quite a bit more than in the real world. Warsaw obviously also sees similar growth to what Moscow saw in the real world. With it being the administrative and economic heart of Severoslavia.
Some non-copyrighted Polish folk songs. ruclips.net/video/zLByBt4wYTQ/видео.html&ab_channel=VIVEKABHISHEK ruclips.net/video/UrY6al94xB0/видео.html&ab_channel=SlavicPride
Imo I think that this video is highly inaccurate. Ruthenian ethnicity has formed when russians living on the territories conquered by the Polish took some cultural aspects from them. That means that if the russian state would happen to be conquered by the commonwealth, the whole russian ethnicity would've become ruthenian. The russian part of this federation wouldn't be separate from the ruthenian one. Also, the mapping is pretty weird. Kuban territories were populated by ruthenians because after Russia took all the Ruthenia, it conquered northern caucasus territories and they needed to populate this territory with slavic people so they made it so many Ukrainians and russians would move to these lands. In a scenario where the commonwealth has conquered Russia this territory would've probably belonged to the Russian part of the federation
What if Alt Historilanders were not trapped in Germ Propaganda Slavic and finally had the gumption and courage to claim all the ancient Slavic land to the Elbe River for Lech and Magna Polonia ?
@@TheSpadaLunga languages form with a borders of states. And here languagees have nothing to do with borders. For example, in Ukraine and Lithuania, ruthenian will be the most popular language, ia all the countryside as a minimum. But there we have russian and polish in countrysides. It doesn't make any sense
@@purpleelemental3955 1) Languages are formed in a dialect continuum, they do not care about borders. 2) The southern-eastern half of modern Ukraine speaks russian and in modern Belarus you rarely find someone who speaks Belarusian natively even in vallages. You think it doesn't make any sense too?
As a Pole, I want to say that PLC was really great for maintaining peace in Europe and at this time, where Russia does the shit it does, we need The PLC. again. Its like Avatar who dissapeared for over 100 years (123 to be exact) and now, if it returns, Russia is fucked and Polish-Chinese border will see the sunshine.
0:43 i see u dont even understand eastern slavs history and udk ukrainian nation wouldnt exist if not the partisions of poland and mixing of polish and russian cultures
Common Cossacs were protoplastics of Ukrainians. They have been recognized as separate nation in time of commonwhealth and have their own liders(atamans)
@@pawegalla-milewski8950 kozacy nie byli oddzielna narodowoscia. Kozacy byli wojownikami skladajacymi sie w duzej czesci z przestepcow chcacych uciec przed kara. Byli rozni kozacy: zaporoscy, dońscy. Jedni w roznych okresach czasu walczyli dla Rzeczpospolitej inni dla moskwy. Tatarzy byli natomiast oddzielna narodowoscia bo wywodzili sie od mongolow ale oddzielili sie od ich reszty po upadku ordy
@@hydrosprezarka4204 Masz racje kozacy byli uciekinierami z roznych ziem tak samo jak mazurzy byli osadnikami z mazowsza. Ale kozakow mozna uznac za pierwszych Ukraincow
@@pawegalla-milewski8950 jezeli ukrainiec to dla ciebie mieszkaniec krainy geograficznej ukraina to tak, ale jezeli ukrainca rozumiemy jako przedstawiciela wspolczesnego narodu ukrainskiego to kozakow nie mozna nazwac ukraincami bo nie byli oni wystarczajaco odmienni kulturowo od Polakow czy rusinow. Ta odmiennosc wyksztalcila sie dopiero w okresie kiedy kozacy stracili na waznosci w tamtych stronach. Tak samo ślązacy nie sa odrebnym narodem tylko grupa etniczna nalezaca do narodu polskiego o czesciowo odmiennej od jego reszty kulturze uformowanej pod wplywem kultury niemieckiej podczas zaborow i reszty okresu kiedy slask byl pod niemiecko-austriackim panowaniem
Part 1 - ruclips.net/video/mlywGKeRJ7M/видео.html
Yes
Finally another upload it's like when your waiting for something to be shipped and it comes
Greetings from Poland,
I'm curious, why Severoslavia didn't colonize Siberia and central Asia, like Russia in our reality or didn't create a puppet state/states?
@@rafakrzentowski9549 no need to apparently and also china was closer giving it a easier time colonizing it
@@rafakrzentowski9549 I did cover it briefly in part 1, but essentially they would have been a lot more involved in European politics, and thus wouldn't have focuses as many resources on colonization of Siberia. The main power in the Commonwealth, Poland, wouldn't have had the same motivations as Russia either. One major reason why Russia colonized Siberia was so that they never had to be subjugated by any Mongol-like hordes again. They wanted a defendable border and kept on expanding till they reached the sea. Poland would not have had this same motivation.
Nevertheless much of Siberia was colonized by Russians in this timeline. To the east of Severoslavia is the Siberian republic, which is a close ally of Severoslavia. The minor Russian Kingdoms further east fell under Chinese influence.
Chinese, enemies
Lithuanians, pacified
Russians, integrated
Oh yeah it's severoslavia time😎
It time for the Power Rangers Severoslavia
Germans: expelled
Can we appreciate the attention to detail in this video? We can see in this world Scandinavia is mostly identical to Neatling's Scandinavia, Germany and Austria stayed united after the WW2, Yugoslavia never feel (probably cause of Severoslavia being the big Slavic brother), Greece holds Constantinople and Cyprus, Armenia is in their ancestral territory (both from a weaker ottoman empire most likely), there is pseudo-Alash Orda state in central Asia since there wasn't massive Russian expansion in the area and east of the Urals there is a probable cossack state from the breakaway "colony" since the commonwealth didn't want to expand eastward as Russia did. Another great video, Neatling doesn't miss.
he's great
WW2 never happened
And Austria united Germany
Dont forget that china is still, well “taiwanese” also being extremely close to india, clearly didnt forget the revolution
8:57 are we seriously not going to stop and say how epic this is.
Yeah
that is totally epic, holyyyy
Only if Circassians survived too... having their own nation in Northern Caucasus, Checnya, Alania and Dagestan would be nice as well
As a Pole it gives me a boner
as a pole, this series brings me great joy, to see my country prosper so greatly
Jestem z Rosji, ale podobało mi się to wideo, chciałbym zobaczyć ten świat
@@TheSpadaLunga ja też
when is the 3rd part for "what if eastern Rome recovered after the fall" coming out because the idea that china the US and Rome being in a 3 way cold war is very interesting.
I don't really have a proper schedule at the moment, so just when I get to it. Is there anything in particular you would want me to focus on in it? It sounds like you're mostly interested in the geopolitics of it. So like a run-down of the alternate cold war? And perhaps an overview of some of the alternate countries like I did with part 3 in my old Byzantine series.
@@Neatling basically it would be very cool to see a very interesting geopolitical situation in Europe and the rest of the world. With Europe mainly split between Rome and the US that could create a more unified Rome and may result in more border conflicts. With china it would be very interesting to see your takes on proxy wars and puppet nations. we may see the West unite against the east or we could have an absolute free for all :) whatever you find interesting go for it it is your video after all
1. Poland in 19th and 20th century had a gigantic number of Polish Nationals, living outside of Poland, due to partitions in 18th century, and then again, those who fled durring World War 2 and never returned to the Comunist Controlled country.
In 1990s it was estimated that there was arround 60mln of Poles living outside of Poland, on top of 40mln living inside of it.
If throughout all this timeline, Poland was actualy a superpower, instead of conquered warzone, most of those people would never leave, ergo - estimating polish population in your scenario (as much as I find it super unlikely) is VERY conservative at 60mln. It would easly have been arround 100mln if not even more due to grater prosperity.
2. If Polish-Lithuanian commonwealth never fell, and remained cohesive durring entire 20th century too, it is very likely that most of population of Duchy of Lithuania, and Ruthenia (Ukraine), would have been very very polonised culturaly and linguisticaly. Even in our timeline, by the end of 18th century, vast mayority of citizens of Duchy of Lithuania, allready considered themselves as much Polish as Lithuanian, and mostly spoke in Polish. With 2 more centuries of cultural takeover, it is very likely that Polish would have become a dominant languague for most of the "Empire", with the exception of maybe ethnic Russian territories, that would probably by slowly turning as well.
Russians did this inside their Empire, it is likely it would have happened inside this one too.
3. Despite its huge territory and population, I dont think it would have been world superpower, without controll of Siberia, and through that - entirety of Asia, it is not in the greatest position geopoliticaly. Without a great conection to the world Oceans, beeing still wedged into the corner of Europe, it would remain slightly backwards country used by the Anglo-Saxons to balance Germany.
USSR became an economic and technological powerhouse, due to their harrowing experiences of the WW2. The horrors of the war, cemented resolve and pride of the peoples of the country, giving them fervor and purpose - that allowed USSR to be a serious threat even to US untill 1970s, when those sentiments waned, making people aware of their poverty and missery compared to the west.
Without that boost to the Soviet spirit the WW2 gave, Russia would never achive such heights it had in 1960s, and neighter would this country you propose.
Cheers.
Being of both Polish AND Lithuanian descent, this would be awesome! I like the way you kept it a union of country states and that morals were kept and expansionism was curtailed for several hundred years because all was going smoothly enough for the principalities
Yeah
Ideas for future videos
What if the Teutonic Order stayed in Hungary
What if the Huns conquered Eastern Europe
What if Japan became a colonial empire
What if Otto the third realized his concept of the HRE
PS. I greatly enjoy your videos, keep up the good work
Technically speaking, Japan was a colonial empire for a brief period of history
H U N G A R I A N P R U S S I A
@@pyrenees2695 P R U S S I A N H U N G A R Y
@@ladahieno2382 Not just technically, and it wasn't so brief (roughly 50 years)
@@TapOnX TECHNICALLY SPEAKING you are right.
But 50 years is a rather brief period when you take into account the entire history of human race
So long waiting... Greetings from Poland
Thank you so much!
I have three points to add to fine-tune this scenario: 1. even IF Severoslavia was not interested in expanding all the way into Siberia, it would have taken a buffer area on the Asian side of the Urals... so in case of invasion, they could defend against the mountains rather than defend against an enemy that was coming down and was fortified into the mountains. This would have been obvious to any strategist at any time.
2. Czechs and Slovaks are linguistically and culturally Western Slavs, very close to the Poles, they would have been offered a membership.
3. During the time that this union was formed, there were still Western Slavs living in and native to current Eastern Germany, they were being colonized and absorbed by the Germans, and these Slavs may have asked for help, probably would have gotten it and with all the other Slavs united, would have been saved from extinction.
Your content is definitely some of the best I've ever seen, the RUclips grind is hard but i believe in you 🤍
I really appreciate it man. And thank you so much for becoming a member! At the moment the perks are mainly sneak-peaks for future videos, as well as easier direct communication with me if you have any suggestions or questions. One of my members suggested making this follow up video for instance.
Honestly your one of my favorite youtube channels, love the content
I think you went "too big" with adding Russia...
but overall you should explore idea of Three Seas which was suggested by Józef Piłsudski.
It's said that it might be finally done through Via Carpathia road project
Yeah that's my theory.
hah Intermarium
Google.
Polish-lithuanian-Muscovite Commonwealth.
Good vid, but Warsaw really REALLY wouldn't make European Russia a single subnational entity. Besides Muscovy at the time of union in your scenario itself being freshly united, there would probably zero controversy to split it up again in Novgorod, etc., and the people wouldn't terribly mind. Also there's no reason for anything south of the Volga to belong to it, since everything was conquered by PL. But the main reason is that they would want to balkanize it and promote minority cultures to keep it manageable, and this is not hard since you aren't splitting up a nation against its will, since in this scenario it isn't one.
You should make a video on what if the german empire united earlier in like the 17th or 18th century. It would be very interesting.
nice video man!
Congrats on 10k brother, keep grinding
Can We Please Get a Part 3 About The Armed Forces And Similar Stuff.
Maybe do the Outremer next? Basically the Levant and Iraq/Kuwait, with it's borders being the inland deserts of Arabia and the Hejaz mountains in the South, the Iranian and Anatolian mountain ranges in the North and East, and either the Sinai peninsula or the Suez canal in the South-west? It's formation could've come about by a more upfront and reciprocal relationship between the crusader forces and the Byzantines, as well as a better vetting process for crusaders, basically hiring knights and professional soldiery rather than peasantry told they can do whatever and God will still love them. Not gonna pretend the crusaders were as saintly as they were sold to be, but some amongst the leadership genuinely preferred conversion by word to conversion by sword. Maybe some sort of pan-Abrahamism emerges, where Christianity, Islam and Judaism are all relatively co-equal faiths? Hell, maybe even a zoroastrian minority emerges?
AM i weird that i want to live on this Universe ?
No, that's completly normal
a little bit because there is cold war still going on
Really like the idea. Subscribed man
Neatling is best alt history mapper prove me wrong
Ok I can
@@bruhz_089 how
Keep up this work. Your Alt Histories are fantastic, cause you're not always too hung up on realism and also go into the inner workings of countries
Greatly enjoyed this icl
So interesting! I watched both series. But there're certain parts that I disagree (for example I don't see why Finland would leave the Rzeczpospolita. The only explanation is that the rise of nationalism still happend, and the Rzeczpospolita, or 'serveroslavia' or Northern-Slavia is by its name, Slavic majority, but I think for the Rzeczpospolita to really survive, she should be able to provide an alternative to ethnic nationalism and be a pioneer of 'post-nationalism' in Europe). And also, especially as sb. who's from China but living in America in the current time line. I found myself interested in painting my version of the international picture, especially how America and China rose to become superpowers in this timeline. I'm going to divide it in to several parts to be commented by myself.
Also, to reflect my version, I would refer the modern day commonwealth by the name, 'Rzeczpospolita', which frankly, does not suggest the head of state is monarchy or presidential or whatsoever in the language context of Polish. Hence, I believe that the commonwealth would most likely be called 'the Rzeczpospolita' internationally, just like how the USA is usually preferred to be called 'US' or 'United States' (US Army, POTUS, etc.), which has no indication of its geography or demographics.
Part I: The Rzeczpospolita up until 'the great war' & aftermath:
For the earlier stages I would say I overall agree with ur Part I. However with some major differences. As I described. I don't see Finland leaving the Rzeczpospolita like ever. However, it would eventually not become any of the 4 constituents u described in Part II of your videos here. Hence, it might be elevated as the 5th constituent state of the Rzeczpospolita, eventually getting equal rights as the other 4 more 'Slavic' counterparts. Also, under this scenario, the Brandenburg (a state of HRE, eventually led by Austria)- Prussia (a duchy under, well, Warsaw, as a constituent of the Rzeczpospolita) will still happen. However, as the Rzeczpospolita is stronger, and like you mentioned, won wars such as the thirty year war, the great Northern war, and eliminated Sweden as a power (which played an important role of Prussia seceding from the Rzeczpospolita), the merger would rather result in the new Brandenburg-Prussia as a Dutchy of the Rzeczpospolita, which would eventually also become an equal constituent. And again, I think it's possible because ethnic diversity & tolerance is a core identity of this entity, and in order for her to be truly successful there needs to be significant non-Slavic ppl, like Finnish & Prussian Germans, to feel comfortable identifying as an integral part of the Rzeczpospolita. Hence, other major cities that would eventually become part of Rzeczpospolita include Helsinki &, Berlin. I tbh don't know what history of the city of Berlin would be like should the Brandenburg-Prussia be part of the Rzeczpospolita but I do think eventually the region around Berlin would see great development, and become a major cultural center of German speaking ppl under the Rzeczpospolita.
I really can't see how the Rzeczpospolita will act in the rise of Napoleon. Or the French revolution in general. As the 1st coalition against France was due to the revolution, & at that time Napoleon didn't rise yet. And the reason is that most other powers in our timeline by the time of the great French revolution were authoritarian & feudalistic absolute monarchies, like the Romanovs, the Habsburgs and the Prussians (forgot their last name). However, while the Rzeczpospolita might still be a feudalistic, and see diversity & local autonomy as an integral part, it's also not an absolute monarchy, and political participation is increasingly spread to the wider population. Hence it's likely that it has no real interest in involving in the French revolution. However the French revolution still impacts the Habsburgs & even the Italians severely. So I see the unification of the Austrian Empire under the Habsburgs, including most of today's Germany as well as Hungary & Balkans where Habsburgs did control in our timeline, moved way forward, and an Austrian-German empire would probably form in the earlier half of the 19th century. Italian unification & Greek unification would also be earlier, and they would form the central powers in Europe during the great war in the earliest half of the 20th century.
In return, the entente formed between London, Paris & Warsaw. And in Europe the entente secured a decisive victory. Which means it's time to dissolve the 3 a.m. autoritarian empires, under the name of democracy & self-determination. Under this scenario, as well as the fact that the losers probably still don't get to dictate terms, the Vienna-based Austrian-German empire would still definitely lose Bohemia. But it might be annexed by the Rzeczpospolita instead. And especially the NW parts, including even Prague, would become part of Prussia, which remember, is now a member state of the Rzeczpospolita. The more 'Czech' or 'Slavic' parts of modern day Czechia would be part of Poland instead
And since Hungary-Poland 'friendship' has dated back to the earlier P-L commonwealth, I see this 'friendship' keeping on, culminating in Hungarians forming resistance & insurgent movements against Habsburg rule, largely funded by Warsaw, as an important part in finally destroying the Habsburg empire. Hence, Hungary might also actually join the Rzeczpospolita after breaking free from Vienna, and become the 7th constituent state of the Rzeczpospolita. Bringing important cities, such as Budapest, but also most of today's Slovakia, as well as parts of Transylvania, Slovenia, etc. into the Rzeczpospolita. This coupled with likely more secession from Italy would give the Rzeczpospolita access to the Adriatic/Mediterranean Sea just west of the Balkans.
The then 'monarch' of the Rzeczpospolita would hold titles including: King of Poland, King of Hungary, Tsar of Russia, Grand Duke of Prussia, Grand Duke of Lithuania, Grand Duke of Ruthenia, and whatever of Finland, at the end of the 'great (world) war'. And might even be given a title that's like the 'emperor' or sth like that. However the title would be though, that would, like it always has been, a figurehead, with the federal Congress or Parliament having to pass most laws, and electing the government, led by a prime minister or 'chancellor' or whatever. And local autonomy means each member state & even lower localities like cities, towns, regions, whatever, what still have their autonomous powers. And if there's a name change, the Rzeczpospolita would now be called Rzeczpospolita Intermarium (a term coined by Pilsuski in our timeline, literally meaning, 'between the seas'), as it does has access to both Black & Baltic seas, and now even has some ports in the Adriatic sea. (Hence I'll also call it RI later for simplicity)
The rest of the Balkans, breaking free from Austra-Germany, Italy & Greece, would form their own 'Rzeczpospolita', and likely keeping that name as there's still a Slavic plurality, if not majority. (Calling themselves Rzeczpospolita Balkan or sth like that, which I'll write RB). This would include: Bulgaria, Romania, Albania, and Yugoslavia, either as a whole or separate entity. Of course some might not join, or this might not even be formed, but in whatever form, this 'Rzeczpospolita Balkan' or not, would be a firm ally of the Rzeczpospolita (Intermarium), the successor of the P-L commonwealth. They might also just join the RI, but I don't RI annexing the entirety of Balkans as likely.
If the state IS formed, their capital might be moved to Constantinople, as it's an important city for orthodox Christians, which is probably the majority of this Balkan entity. And this city is probably not gonna be in the hands of either the Greeks or the Turks after this war.
So, we have an interesting situation in Europe after the war, which almost look like an 'iron curtain' for pure political boarders. States that were in the communist bloc in our time line, such as all Slavic nations including Yugoslav ppl, Albania, Romania, Bulgaria, as well as the Baltic states, AND the Finnish, AND the Hungarians, AND the Eastern part of our timeline's Germany, surrounding Berlin & Brandenburg, would either be a part of the RI or a part of the RB, which are allies of each other. While the western European nations will draw closer together, eventually forming the EU.
Part II: Rise of China & America, the great war in Asia, the 'decolonization war' ('cold' war in Europe, 'hot' war in the rest of the world, including the American Japanese Naval wars), and the worldwide 'cold war' & iron curtain:
For this to happen, the root cause would be, again, colonialnism. And under this timeline, Spain, Portugal, followed by Britain & France, and eventually Italy, Austria-Germany, and even Greece, would continue colonial expansions, including into Africa & Asia. And that would also create another tension point for the great war to break out. And given our pretext of this timeline, this is very realistic, in fact very likely. With the Rzeczpospolita firmly uniting the East & the Eurasian link, there's only more, incentive, for western European power to colonize. Not to mention Columbus was like 100 years earlier than the Rzeczpospolita conquest, and in this timeline, annexation of Russia.
However, eventually, probably also around the time of the Napoleonic wars, the USA would declare its independence from the British Empire. And eventually she grew from coast to coast, and enforced the Monroe doctrine which kicked all European powers, most notably Spain & Portugal, from the Americas, and preventing any other European powers, whether that's Britain or France, or Italy, Greece or German-Austria, from claiming significant, 'anti-American', spheres of influence in the new world, making the new world a firm American sphere of influence. At the same time, the European powers would still scramble Africa & Asia, chipping into traditional Chinese spheres of influence such as SE Asia. The winner of the scramble would still be Britian & France, along with likely allies eventually such as Belgium and Netherlands, hence they're seen as the worst enemies of China in Asia, as they continue expanding their empires there. Also, since China (at that time still ruled by the Qing Empire, and it likely won't fall until the great war) is more or less competing with Warsaw (and maybe Turkey too) for Siberia, or even central Asia, much like Chinese-Russian competition in our timeline. Hence, when the entente formed, China joined the central powers, aiming to once and for all reclaim her failing position as the leader of Asia. Leading the UK & France supporting other, anti-Chinese powers in Asia. Most notably, Japan. And of course India by then would probably still be colonized eventually. Hence, the war also eventually broke out in Asia. And China in this timeline would still more or less suffer the same problems as Qing Empire in the real timeline, like a less advanced socioeconomic system, leading to its utter defeat by an alliance of the entente & Japan in Asia.
The situation of post-war China would be similar to that of post-WWI German, Russia & Ottoman empires combined. China would lose most of its influence in SE Asia (and maybe including parts such as Tibet and modern day southern China) to Europeans and maybe Japanese, and lose Taiwan & Korea, or even parts of Manchuria (which would include likes of Vladivostok as in this timeline the Rzeczpospolita wasn't THAT interested in expanding East & competing with China), to Japan. China would also be subject to harsh 'unequal' treaties like those in the real timeline. Both against China & the central powers. Hence, the Qing dynasty would eventually collapse, and there would be a nationalistic feverish in China, wanting to revenge against the enemies. This would really very likely mean that the new 'Republic' of China would be led by some authoritarian strong man. The overall policy would be more or less 'national socialism', combining populist, 'progressive' economic policies, such as cracking down big traditional institutions, massive gov. invest in infrastructure, forming of workers' orgs, etc., with socially conservative ideas, especially nationalism & national pride. However, for China to be truly become a 'superpower' eventually, Chinese version of 'fascism' would look more like Latin American than European. In that instead of creating castes within the diverse Chinese ethnical makeup under the Qing dynasty (which is Manchu minority ruling the Han majority, with others such as Mongols, Muslims, Tibetians, etc. Also the Han languages, like Mandarin VS Cantonese, is about as different as Polish VS Russian), a new, 'Chinese identity' would be formed, out of struggles against the 'imperialist invasions', transcending existing linguistic & ethnic lines. This new identity would also earn China allies in the anti-colonial resistance movements in SE Asia, Korea, Taiwan and even India, which are all now under either Western European or Japanese rule, which are brutal. Emulating how the earlier Soviet Union has sympathy around the world because of ideology.
Meanwhile in Japan, thx to their unexpectedly huge victory in the war, and thx to the support of the Europeans like UK & France, militarism & imperialistic trends also start to rise. And they start to form a more 'ethnic homogeneous' version of national socialism. This would eventually mean, in a similar fashion of eventual Soviet-German war of our WW2, war b/w China & Japan is inevitable.
Here, since China is also actively trying to kick Europeans out of Asia, and has earned trust of resistance movements, she again is seen as a threat to the interest of Western Europeans. Hence they continued their alliance with Japan. On the other hand Japan rose as a naval power & clashed with Americans. Hence Americans expanded their 'Monroe doctrine' to support a worldwide decolonization effort. Hence, a Sino-American ally formed, under the name of anti-colonialism, fought against Japan & European nations, led by Britan & France, but probably joined by Italy & German-Austria & Greece at this point, with the Western Europeans reversing course overnight & rearming those armies, in a devastating battle in Asia-Pacific.
The RI & the RB would mostly stay out of the conflict, as they have little real interest in Asia. However, being liberal, they're more or less drawn to the idea of anti-imperialist struggle, especially when America joined. Also, practically, they see western EU nations holding colonies as the last obstacle to basically placing the entire Europe under their influence. Hence, they would likely be de facto more on the Sino-American side. And especially with UK-France rearming Germany it could piss the 2 Rzeczpospolita off. However they likely won't attack the likes of France & UK in Europe. Rather there would be more proxy wars, as well as 'unconventional warfare' such as economic sanctions, political destabilization, etc. against the Western European nations. Hence, eventually, the imperialists were totally defeated, and the Europeans lost all the colonies. Having already bonded with common interests, and now without colonies to back their strengths, they formed the EU (including UK, France, Austria-Germany, which includes west Germany & Austria, Italy & Greece, as well as long time 'allies' such as Netherland & Belgium. They might be later joined by the Scandinavians, Irish, Spanish/Portuguese, etc.) This EU would quickly look like an actual federation, with things like single market, single immigration & customs control, single currency, happening way faster and having way less resistance, and already having a unified army & justice & law enforcement system by now.
Meanwhile in Asia, like you described most of the 'anti-colonial' governments were eventually to become authoritarian, China-aligned, basically puppet & 'satellite' governments, like how Eastern European communist regimes work. Such as Indochina, Myanmar, and even India. While there are some countries that formed American style democratic governments in Asia Pacific. Such as Japan, Korea (maybe South only), AU/NZ, very likely Indonesia & Malasia. Hence the new iron curtain falls in the oceans around China. Also, Siberia is divided into the Eastern portions which were controlled by China in one way or another, and the western portion that's aligned with RI/RB. Maybe parts of central Asia too. Extending the iron curtain North into central & northern Asia. Also, China-America competition would continue into places such like Africa & Middle East.
In Europe, RI has always been liberal, and after those wars RI would become one of the most liberal & democratic major nations in the world. Her southern neighbor RB has always been a little less so since foundation. However, at this point it has been a 'flawed democracy' at worst. The member states of the EU would have always become all democracies at this point. After the war, the UN would still be formed in order to prevent another world war. And both China & US would gain a seat on the permanent security council, giving both right to veto any major decisions. Also RI would join soon, and maybe at their strong request, RB would join not much later. And eventually, the unified EU would take the 5th seat, creating the new 'P5' of the new world order.
You make some interesting points. For one, Poland was never Slavic oriented in its politics. The whole Panslavism idea is seen in Poland as an excuse for Russian colonialism, so you're right, we wouldn't change the name to anything like "Serveroslavia" whatever it means, or "Northern Slavia". The whole idea that Slavs are one big family is fairly new, coming from the 19th century, and is used by some to give them a sense of pride from being Slavic. But Poland takes its pride from its history and traditions that are much older than the Slavic ideology. Moreover, the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth wasn't meant to be Slavic. Lithuanians and Latvians aren't Slavs. Nor were the various Polish minorities like Prussians, Scots, Jews, Muslim Tatars or Armenians. For this purpose the nobles created a kind of early national identity that was above ethnicity or religion. The various nations of Rzeczpospolita stuck together until 1863 so nearly 100 years after Poland-Lithuania ceased to exist. Only then they embraced nationalism in order to engage the peasants in their fight for freedom. Also, the occupants played the nations against each other, which resulted in Polish poor relations with Ukrainians, Germans or Jews.
Rzeczpospolita and Poland were the names used inside the country and they still are. The name used by foreigners was Poland, but perhaps it would be updated to something like the Latin Respublica. Internally the Kingdom of Poland was called "The Crown" and the Duchy of Lithuania "Lithuania" so for example the Polish armies constituted of the Crown Army and the Lithuanian Army, and they were led by Hetman Koronny (Crown Hetman) and Hetman Litewski (Lithuanian Hetman) respectively. In many battles and wars only one of the armies participated. Also, I see no reason for adopting the modern Russian flag for the Commonwealth.
We do know how the Commonwealth reacted to the French Revolution. They were supportive at the beginning as they saw it as an attempt to create a parliamentary democracy in France. They were less supportive once the revolutionists killed a Polish noblewoman for no reason. What's more important the Progressives used the French Revolution as a threat in order to motivate the Conservatives to reforms which led to the May 3 Constitution, the first modern constitution in Europe which granted burghers equal rights with nobles, and gave peasants personal rights.
My biggest problem with the alternative history is that Poland never wanted to annex Russia. Even if Władysław could become the Moscow tsar without converting to Orthodoxy, it'd still be nothing more than a personal union. Poland and Lithuania were in personal union for 200 years before creating the Commonwealth. The Duchy of Muscovy simply wasn't ready for that. Even today Russia could not be admitted. There's no way the Russian society is ready to become democratic. And the whole idea that bigger is better, as in countries of larger territories are better than the smaller ones is laughable. Russian GDP is smaller than that of Italy.
Also, maintaining democracy over a large territory in the pre-industrial era wasn't easy. Before Poland-Lithuania there was no large democratic state in Europe. All the early democracies were city states. Poland figured it out by creating a strong political class and a direct democracy system, but that required deep democratic traditions. Every time a Polish king died it took ca 2 years to elect a new one. During those two years periods Poland-Lithuania were governed by local authorities. There were no problems with decision making. In fact the nobles had more political rights than we do today, but they also had the stron conviction that they're the owners of the country.
OMG yes ! ! Thx , you fixed my day!
Any particular reason you decided to make Finland smaller than in your previous video? No Kola peninsula and all that
I’m curious about a what if on if Sapmi (Sami state) remained independent (and unified)
Ive been at this channel for a whillllee
Can you say me how to find the blank map of the world you used? It is really good, it shows both elevation and the biome
PLS
@neatling I have a great suggestion.
what if you combined some of your alternate history and some new ones and make a playlist. on alternate timeline as in alternate world.
like where your many alternate histories combine in 1 timeline.
like for example ww1 isn't German vs world but ww1 is ROME vs SEVEROSLAVIA. or something.
Plz make a video what if Germany or Italy or both united earlier
I was wondering if you would consider doing a alt-history on if the Stuart restoration didn't happen in the 1650s
@Neatling this is a much better video than the last one, you did put more thought into it. (although whole althist scenario is still wrong).
1st, expansion into Siberia wasn't a great deal, and as for western distractions, Russia had them as well so its a null argument. China only became interested in MANCHURIA, nothing more North, only after Russia had already conquered Primorsk from China. 2nd there were still movements that wanted to reform the commonwealth into absolute monarchy, or centralised dictatorial republic. 3rd. The 3rd of May Constitution effectively made Commonwealth/Poland into unitary state. 4th, Commonwealths magnates often did conquests of their own, example being attempts at conquests of Wallachia and Transylvania before Otties fully subjugated them. Even before the famous occupation of Moscow, magnates meddled into affairs of Russia.
This said, Poland/Severoslavia would certainly have resources to fuel Siberian Expansion, even with wars against HRE and Otties respectively. Having France and Japan as natural allies, Britain, HRE/Germany* and Ottomans as natural enemies. *Having crushed Habsburgs and probably gained the Crown of Bohemia, Poland would be able to decide, either to dismantle HRE or give the crown to itself or France. Considering French Revolution/Napoleon and polish Constitution having occurred in same time irl, It's possible to assume, Poland would have gave green light for Napoleon to be HRE Emperor and gladly joined it's Continental System, undergoing similar political and ideological transformations. It is also very likely, that Poland-France border would not be only in Europe, but Northern America as well. I cannot project further how long this alliance would have worked, but its certain, that UK would be royally F.
Nice video
how did they get pommerania and silesia and why did they expell the germans in this timeline?
8:21, 8:39, 8:57 interesting universe you got there. Would be a shame if some Austrian painter decided to break it.
and they he broke it
then*
In this timeline it would probably be like invading Russia so good luck
Sorry, but in that timeline he has been broken
Why did they change the capital in this timeline
what if Germany was united way earlier than it did in our timeline?
Or what if Sampi was a country?
or what if Finland was independent way before it was in our world (like, what if Finland was independent in 1400's?)
Either way, I love your alternative histories having an episode about how they work in the present day!
Can the next episode be a What if Brazil or La plata became a world power?
Great video, Greetings from uruguay
Not to be mean but as a Pol at 5:54 the way you pronounced Gdańsk is funny to me love the video btw
What if the dutch colonised Australia instead of south Africa / what if the boers were in Australia ?
great video and all,howerever i have to make a complaint:in the previous part of this alt history,polish-german broder was stopped along the our world's 1937 germany's borders (excluding east prussia,but including eastern pomerania and silesia),but in this this video,polish-german border goes along the ,,oder-naisse line'(the current polish-german border of our world).i dont mean to dislike just beacuse of this one error,but i kinda felt like pointing this out would be important.once again,other details of this video were out-right amazing and it deserves not only my ,but a like from a lot of people.i really hope neatling will respond to this :)
The reason I changed it was that I though Severoslavia would take more following the great war with Germany. There would more than likely be an irredentist push for it since Slavs used to live there before the German migration east several centuries earlier. And in my scenario Severoslavia did control eastern Pomerania for a short period. So again, they simply take it following the great war.
Oh and worth mentioning is also that the border technically is slightly different than the real world Polish-German border. In the real world it diverges a bit from the rivers so that Poland has Szczecin. In this alternate history scenario it follows the river and Germany keeps Stettin. Minor difference, but hey, there it is.
i understand the motive of yours,neatling,but the thing is that if severoslavia did take those aformetioned lands(east pomerania+silsia),that would be kind of a overstretch.plus,since the germans already took these lands from the slavic tribe inhabiting it in 6-7th century(i think,i might be wrong here),taking these lands in the peace traty would give this commonwealth around few million germans inhabiting the said regions.surely,it would take a lot of displacement and deportation of these couple million germans,which wouldnt be easy.(as long as you're not joseph stalin,lol),and also the most based,but the 3rd reason why-is that the germany of this world kinda had borders of germany of our world+austria+stettin,which was pretty disgusting borders.
oh,and abouth the current polish-german border-its only away from the oder river in the north,the city of stettin(or szczecin,in polish).in the other places,it fits perfectly along the rivers of oder in the centre and river naisse-in the south.
again,i understand why did you make this slight edit,and i'm not either the best mapper,historian or an advisor in this topic.this was simply a minor inconvinience that i was concerned about.just do it the way it suits you the most.
@@Neatling Well in my theory the Polish-German boarder would be almost the East-West German boarder during the cold war. Because I think with the Rzeczpospolita so strong the Habsburg would be never in the position of asking Warsaw for Prussia. And after Brandenburg-Prussia the only thing might happen is that they do form an actual union, but now under the Warsaw Rzeczpospolita crown. And in the subsequent Austria unification of Germany, there's also no way that they will have Prussia. And it makes sense as if I remembered correctly, the Habsburgs were more or less Catholic, and that's why they started the 30 year war partially. However Prussian Germans were already Protestants. However the Rzeczpospolita would have always agreed to religious freedom, and their system have always been more liberal than the Habsburgs. And with Lithuanians and Finnish who won't leave the union by any means at any time from my theory, it's not that German identity of Prussia is under great threat. Hence that's why I prefer to use Rzeczpospolita or Intermarium instead of Seveslavia, indicating that this union is not only for Slavic people. So under my theory Prussia would always be part of the Commonwealth instead, as the largest non-Slavic constituent. They would eventually extend as west as Berlin through the Brandenburg union, and annex parts of Czechia (Bohemia/Moravia) from Austria after the great war, because of the significant Germans living there.
Well in my theory Prussia will stay in the Commonwealth and the Habsburgs can only dream of getting it with a Commonwealth so strong. And the Brandenburg Prussia union would result in HRE losing Brandenburg to the Commonwealth, not the vice versa. Hence the border would extend way west. To include Brandenburg, which includes Berlin.
Also. I don't see how an 1937 boarder is a solution as East Prussia is now disconnected with the rest of Germany. In the interwar years there was a 'solution' which is more or less seen as a 'compromise' that is the Danzig free city & corridor (Gdansk in Polish). And I don't see Habsurgs asking Warsaw to do any of that under any circumstance under this scenario. Also Gdansk would always be part of Poland in this scenario as it was part of 'Royal Prussia' which stayed part of the commonwealth until the 1st partition which won't happen here. And if I remembered corrected Royal Prussia had a longer coast line on the Baltics. That means East Prussia would become like a disconnected 'colony' of the eventually unified German Empire under Austria (Habsburgs) and it's easy for Warsaw to try to take that even earlier. And given that both countries are more or less 'federalized' it's kinda 'legally' easy for Poland to get East Prussia from Austria as well.
Beautiful
im done waiting
im making a full map and you have nothing to stop me
The Nationalist and Partisans: *plotting intensifies*
Do what if the Ottoman Empire never existed.
I think you mean "What if Eastern Rome never fell"
@@ladahieno2382 No, what if the balkan region would not have any Ottoman invasion what would be the situation right now and of course The middle east.
@@_iustin_n8960 so, what if Ottomans existed but never got out of Anatolia?
@@ladahieno2382 Yeah like the turks as a people would exist in Anatolia but they would never get out of Anatolia maybe cause of a Byzantine pushback or something, that would be the idea, it would be intersting to see what Will happen cause the Ottomans really changed something in the european history and world history as a whole
@@_iustin_n8960 Byzantium fights with Austria/Hungary/Russia for influence over the Balkans
you shood make a vid3o on what wood happen if it did actually fall innit
FINALY!
Why did you modernize the German-polish border ?
The old video was better
Any chance of getting a link to this map?
I don't think russians would be too happy in a union like this, they'd break off eventually
emm over the years they would be Polonized, and besides, this country would probably become at the turn of the 19th century, the Union of the Slavs, so the Russians think that they would always feel good, they would always like the "Union of the Slavs "
@@birb2330 they probably wouldn't be to happy not having Siberia , being a cossack and conquering and exploring new lands to the east was an important part of Russian culture and history and politics if the commonwealth wont expand there then that would be enough of a reason for a schism to occur
@@constantinethecataphract5949 according to this scenario, the minority of the Russian population is Orthodox, more is Christians , And xd? They never had Siberia in this Univesrum, so why would they have it? Only in the short term.
@@birb2330 orthodox christianity IS christianity, there are just multiple branches of it. There's anglican christianity, protestant christianity, catholic christianity, orthodox christianity and some other minor ones.
@@constantinethecataphract5949 i guess if we would never conquer Siberia than it wouldn't be an important part of our culture:)
I think the world would be a much more peaceful place if this was the reality
Can you do a video on carthage
@neatling please make a video on what if china became a semi-democratic nation after reforms to their communist government similar to your what if Russia abandoned communism.
you never explained how they lost Finland
That china flag... Based and KMT pilled.
Towards the end of part 1 you start referring to the country as a republic. So supposedly it does not have a momarch and is not a constitutional monarchy as said in this video?
But if you close your eyes
Polish-Lithuania-russian commmonwealth
how is Uzbekistan double landlocked? Kazakhstan literally is connected to sea, if it has to be an ocean its connected to then why isn’t Moldova double landlocked, as Romania and Ukraine don’t directly border the sea, some please explain
Caspian Sea is actually a giant lake.
Last Time i was this early russia was still called moscow
Wielka Polsza
Łódź for riga :O
Their metropolitan areas are almost even in the real world. But in this scenario I simply imagine the coastal port cities would have grown a lot more. Particularly those not in Russia. St. Petersburg isn't really an ideal port, it was just Russia's only non-arctic port in the Baltic for a while.
So as the Commonwealth has plenty of Baltic coastline for most of its history, Gdansk and Riga grow quite a bit more than in the real world. Warsaw obviously also sees similar growth to what Moscow saw in the real world. With it being the administrative and economic heart of Severoslavia.
@@Neatling Oo, Okay
Music?
Some non-copyrighted Polish folk songs.
ruclips.net/video/zLByBt4wYTQ/видео.html&ab_channel=VIVEKABHISHEK
ruclips.net/video/UrY6al94xB0/видео.html&ab_channel=SlavicPride
Imo I think that this video is highly inaccurate. Ruthenian ethnicity has formed when russians living on the territories conquered by the Polish took some cultural aspects from them. That means that if the russian state would happen to be conquered by the commonwealth, the whole russian ethnicity would've become ruthenian. The russian part of this federation wouldn't be separate from the ruthenian one. Also, the mapping is pretty weird. Kuban territories were populated by ruthenians because after Russia took all the Ruthenia, it conquered northern caucasus territories and they needed to populate this territory with slavic people so they made it so many Ukrainians and russians would move to these lands. In a scenario where the commonwealth has conquered Russia this territory would've probably belonged to the Russian part of the federation
6:45 bruh you replaced pakistan
my dumb polish nationalistic brain wants to forget real history and live by this masterpiece 😍😍😍😍😍😍😍😍
french irredentism next
cool
this is the good ending
Did the germans died ?
No, some Slavs killed them in so called polish death camps :P. What? It is alternative history.
What if Alt Historilanders were not trapped in Germ Propaganda
Slavic and finally had the gumption and courage to claim all the ancient Slavic land to the Elbe River for Lech and Magna Polonia ?
Hi
Hi
Hello there
@@Neatling took you long enough
@@Neatling general Ken-Obi
Linguustic map ia so shitty, to be honest
It's an alternate history video, did you expect accurate real world information or something?
@@TheSpadaLunga i expected something more logical
@@purpleelemental3955 whats wrong with linguistic map
@@TheSpadaLunga languages form with a borders of states. And here languagees have nothing to do with borders. For example, in Ukraine and Lithuania, ruthenian will be the most popular language, ia all the countryside as a minimum.
But there we have russian and polish in countrysides. It doesn't make any sense
@@purpleelemental3955 1) Languages are formed in a dialect continuum, they do not care about borders.
2) The southern-eastern half of modern Ukraine speaks russian and in modern Belarus you rarely find someone who speaks Belarusian natively even in vallages. You think it doesn't make any sense too?
No no no Katowice bigger than Kraków is not cool.
I wish it was real
Make one about what would the current world look like if The Grand Duchy of Lithuania never fell or became part of the Polish Lithuanian commonwealth.
chwała państwu polskiemu
As a Pole, I want to say that PLC was really great for maintaining peace in Europe and at this time, where Russia does the shit it does, we need The PLC. again. Its like Avatar who dissapeared for over 100 years (123 to be exact) and now, if it returns, Russia is fucked and Polish-Chinese border will see the sunshine.
Україна від сяну до дону
Pog
Absolutely weird. There could have been no other outcome for polish rule in Russia than abrupt and total liberation from it.
Wauw. Blive ved
0:43 i see u dont even understand eastern slavs history and udk ukrainian nation wouldnt exist if not the partisions of poland and mixing of polish and russian cultures
Common Cossacs were protoplastics of Ukrainians. They have been recognized as separate nation in time of commonwhealth and have their own liders(atamans)
@@pawegalla-milewski8950 kozacy nie byli oddzielna narodowoscia. Kozacy byli wojownikami skladajacymi sie w duzej czesci z przestepcow chcacych uciec przed kara. Byli rozni kozacy: zaporoscy, dońscy. Jedni w roznych okresach czasu walczyli dla Rzeczpospolitej inni dla moskwy. Tatarzy byli natomiast oddzielna narodowoscia bo wywodzili sie od mongolow ale oddzielili sie od ich reszty po upadku ordy
@@hydrosprezarka4204 Masz racje kozacy byli uciekinierami z roznych ziem tak samo jak mazurzy byli osadnikami z mazowsza. Ale kozakow mozna uznac za pierwszych Ukraincow
@@pawegalla-milewski8950 jezeli ukrainiec to dla ciebie mieszkaniec krainy geograficznej ukraina to tak, ale jezeli ukrainca rozumiemy jako przedstawiciela wspolczesnego narodu ukrainskiego to kozakow nie mozna nazwac ukraincami bo nie byli oni wystarczajaco odmienni kulturowo od Polakow czy rusinow. Ta odmiennosc wyksztalcila sie dopiero w okresie kiedy kozacy stracili na waznosci w tamtych stronach.
Tak samo ślązacy nie sa odrebnym narodem tylko grupa etniczna nalezaca do narodu polskiego o czesciowo odmiennej od jego reszty kulturze uformowanej pod wplywem kultury niemieckiej podczas zaborow i reszty okresu kiedy slask byl pod niemiecko-austriackim panowaniem
It might come in future as a 3 seas commonwealth