A Comprehensive Guide to Grappling | Pathfinder 2e
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- Опубликовано: 24 июл 2024
- Everything you could possibly need to know about Grappling in Pathfinder 2e.
Sections
0:00 Intro
0:22 Disclaimer
0:46 How Grappling Works
3:29 Ancestry
5:07 Background
5:40 Class
6:13 Rogue
6:42 Champion
8:16 Fighter
10:26 Barbarian
13:27 Monk
18:15 Ranger
20:48 Multiclassing
21:37 General Build Details
22:21 Bonuses
24:38 The Highest Grapple Check Possible
27:27 Penalties
29:35 Conclusion
30:17 Example Character
30:47 Outro
31:29 Bloopers
Resources used in this video
Library of Pathfinder 2e rules: pf2easy.com/tree/
Character creator and sheet: wanderersguide.app/ 
Игры
Very nice guide, well put together.
One suggestion for an ancestry - the Anadi has an unarmed piercing D6 fang attack that, with a 1st level ancestry feat, gains the Grapple and Trip traits.
As for a class, the Swashbuckler class doesn't look like it does much for grappling at first glance, but it has a few things in it's favor that make it worth serious consideration.
It has a feat, 'Agile Maneuvers' that reduces the MAP for grapple, shove and trip actions.
The Gymnast style gives you panache for grappling and tripping, which gives you a few things for grapple. Panache grants you a +1 circumstance bonus to grapple checks. You can effectively get Titan Wrestler for free at 3rd level as you can take bonus athletic skill feats. You do additional damage to grappled opponents with your finisher. The best reason for a grapple Swashbuckler is the level 10 feat 'Derring-Do' - you get to roll twice for any grapple checks and take the better result! This can be applied to every check at no cost as long as you have panache. This also applies to tripping and shoving, so you get to really leverage your high athletics skill.
Assurance doesn't suck. Several people have done the math and it's a guaranteed success on most enemies lower level than the party and ignores MAP. So not only does Assurance Athletics get you over most gaps and down most ledges with no check, against most enemies you can successfully use shoves, trips, and grapples on your third attack. Gain access to a Bola and you can Ranged Trip from up to 20ft away with no penalty and at no risk to check if you can auto trip. If you can auto-trip it's likely safe to try to auto-grapple the same enemy even though the DC targeted is different.
It just sucks against big deal enemies, and even then you might have some luck if their save is low enough or they are debuffed from time to time. Plus all the other side benefits of the jumping and climbing and swimming stuff.
My GM never runs weaker bad guys against us. So it sucks for us.
@@Antipodeano Note it’s auto success on lower enemies but can also be auto success on debuffed enemies. Frightened and sickened if capable of being inflicted by the party can make even some higher level enemies good targets for an assurance grapple.
@@guldcat1619 No it doesn't. Assurance at lv 20 is a 10+20+8 = 38. The dragon has a fort dc of 47. If you can grab a creature with assurance, that creature is a joke.
@@JMa0820 it falls off for sure; best/pretty good at low level when your bonus from str modifier is less important
@@JMa0820 It is usefull against lower level foes, but i'm not sure if that makes it worth a feat slot
I'm surprised to not see the Swashbuckler here. The Gymnast is perhaps the best grappler in the game using Derring-do.
I never saw that, it's awesome
Maybe he didn't reference advanced?
Good stuff! Never thought of a a flurry ranger with a agile grapple weapon!
Not sure if you're crowdsourcing ideas, but a similar guide around Feint would be interesting.
I would love an update to this video (and build) in light of the new Wrestler archetype from Grand Bazaar.
Came here to say this
"if your dm allows kobolds" no dm should ever dare take away my kobold, kobold nation unite!
So glad you talked about the Ranger, that's exactly the build I would play if I was ranger (Although not with a Scorpion, I just love the constrictor Snake)
I think the one way Rogues could become competent at grapples would be through a rules change I think kinda should be there anyways: Flat-footed should reduce Saving Throw DCs by -2 against activities with the Attack Trait. Basically if flat-footed, the trip, grapple, and disarm traits can become easier. Rogues can sometimes get more options to gain a combat advantage, so could be fun.
I think this video came before the updates to Heritage list, but Dhampir with Fangs feat can grapple with their fangs. Giving them the benefits of not needing a free hand and you can use any medium ancestry.
Really liked your info, solid analysis. As mentioned above, Assurance in Athletics has it’s applications.
Outtakes at the end was a nice touch.
You get a bonus to grapple checks with potency runes only if the weapon/unarmed attack has the grapple trait. Grapple is a skill check with the Attack trait, not an attack roll.
It can work with feats like Combat Grab, where you grapple as part of a strike.
You forgot the monk feat "Death Drop"!
They make an athletics check to suplex a grabbed enemy, on a crit success it does 12d6 damage!
On the penalties to enemies, there’s one possibility that’s maybe even harder to achieve than the perfect situation for your grapple with all the crits: having an enemy take a level 1 mutagen. Quicksilver mutagen would be good to Grapple, and Cognitive mutagen would be amazing to prevent an enemy escaping. It’s a penalty that’s neither circumstance, status nor item, so it stacks with anything you can do.
The downside is: how to make an enemy take the mutagen? Unless they’re compelled in some way by magic/took it before combat starts, the best option is giving it to an unconscious creature, potentially making the Barbarian/Monk better options to combo with it.
Huh, that's a great though. I'm surprised I never though of that. As you said, I'd be surprised if you can ever pull it off, but it's a -2 untyped penalty which is huge.
This is fantastic. Great video
A really good look at the grapple builds.
Very thorough and useful! And the kobold ranger stuff was great haha, very pathfinder
Glad I found this channel, really great videos. Please make a sequel to this video doing a build guide on the wrestler archetype!
Nice, i had the image of your kobold ranger grappling a dragon out of flight... good job Sir!
Thank you very much for sharing this video with us. Was great to see al the information organized in a single place.
very helpful video. I am aware that it’s a mite outdated, but particularly lining up all of the sources of bonuses for athletics and penalties to fortitude was really helpful. I want to put together a spreadsheet or other organized comparison of all of the classes for grappling
Hellknight with chain order have some of the greatest features for grappling builds. Especially the greater benefit, which turnes failed escape check into critically failed. This basically forces enemies to use their first attack to escape, because otherwise they might fail the check and stuck grappled. For casters this is pure hell.
Excellent deep dive on a niche subject within the roleplaying community. Very strong for a first video! Subscribed.
The beastkin heritage could be a good choice for grappling. The Dire Form feat that beastkin have access to at level 13 allows them to basically cast enlarge on themselves at will with no cooldowns or limitations. This allows them to grapple gargantuan creatures 2 levels before they can increase their Athletics proficiency to legendary. The extra reach can also be nice even after level 15. Since it's a heritage, you can even basically ignore the grappling size restrictions of small or tiny ancestries once you get to level 13.
Lizardfolk have a similar feat, but they get it at level 17 and they're already of medium size by default.
That's a great idea, I've never looked at versatile heritages enough to have thought of that.
Rogue for Grab and Stab still seens funny lol
But awesome video! I was surprised in a positive way, I'm looking forward for more video!
Azarketi Weapon Familiarity grants access to the Gillhook, a Reach weapon with Grapple. If your target can't attack past 5ft, a success on your grapple check is pretty much a critical success.
Great catch! That's a very interesting interaction. I have to think as a GM, if a player did that to me, I'd be inclined to have the grappled creature attack the weapon. Might be super unfair to the player though.
Awesome video! I really want to play a kobold ranger now. I would love to see an update to this video with the new Wrestler archetype.
Really well put together I’m a huge fan of barbarians from first edition… And to me looking over second edition barbarian feats they are not particularly well-suited to dishing out high damage but they are really good at grappling. Building a grappler never really appealed to me but I do like the way you explained everything maybe I’ll give it a try.
This is very good content and I just wanted to note that a bard with Inspire Competence can very easily aid you to have +4 circumstance bonus (at the price of their cantrips & a reaction).
keep the good work
I like catfolk fighter for grappler. I use the clawed catfolk heritage so it can either grapple or claw people with it’s paws, plus they’re agile so if you grapple an enemy the first round with one hand you only have a -4 on the second action to slash them. But since they’re now grappled you’re basically attacking at only a -2.
Also if you have an enemy grabbed in each hand you can still attack with a bite of you take the Saberteeth ancestry feat. Grapple builds are a ton of fun.
Great info
I really love these deep dives into a single mechanic :D
Could you make one for stealth/spotting as well?
Kineticists with Water or Earth can be suprisingly good at grapples. They can give themself a status bonus to Athletics by picking the right gate junction.
Top Tier content
surprised to not see any of the wrestler archetype stuff mentioned
Anadi from mwangi expanse with the Snaring Anadi heritage get a bite unarmed attack with grapple, trip and finesse!
This lets them build a dex based grappler if you want.
I'm trying to figure out a build of them with the new wrestler archetype that primarily fights in spider form.
Clinging Shadows stance is great, but RAW you aren’t allowed to take it unless you’ve already taken a first level Ki spell feat. For non-human characters, that’s a significant cost.
I think you missed barreling charge with the barbarian. It is really useful to get in to the backline to grab enemy casters.
Would love to see an update with the wrestler dedication :)
I just built a Human Barbarian - Animal Instinct (Ape) grappler, going for Wrestler Archetype from the Grand Bazaar.
I expect awesomeness.
A good source of fear with no saving check is the bards 6lvl “dirge of doom”, 1action cantrip foes within 30 feet are frightened 1 for 1 round. Unlike demoralize they don’t become immune to it, and demoralizing all foes within 30 feet, will most likely aid the whole party.
If you are already doing demoralize checks, and have a 14 charisma it might be worth multiclassing to pick it up at 12 lvl and auto-fear your targets.
Nice!
I made a Nagaji Grappler Monk Swimming Clinging Shadows to pull down and drown grappled foes, leveled up to 12.
It's fashioned after the way Crocodiles don't actually bite their foes to death, but grapple-bite them and then drag them underwater and thrash around.
The opener combo of Stance Savant,
At low level, Cheezeofages is right, Assurance (athletics) is great for Athletics without MAP, but at level 7, retrain Assurance Athletics to Underwater Marauder.
Then at 8, to enable Clinging Shadows, retrain Gorilla Stance to Ki Strike or Ki Rush.
Replace Fey Influence: Faun sometime by level 15 when it no longer does anything for you, or negotiate with your DM for some better Fey Influence effects, because Rule of Cool. Tell them it's racist to only have Western European "Enchanted Forest" types of fey creatures, and tell them all about Qasim, the King of Crocodiles from India. Or those crocs in tutus in Fantasia.
Here is how I implemented that build:
2 - Monk Dedication (give up fangwire, use fists); Intimidating Glare
3 - Assurance (Athletics) (now use fists and bolas)
4 - Crushing Grab ; Intimidating Prowess
5 - Dragon’s Presence
6 - Mature Animal Companion; Terrifying Resistance
7 - Toughness
8 - Ki Rush (monk); Battle Cry
9 - Winglets
10 - Incredible Companion; Terrified Retreat
11 - Fleet
12 - Champion Dedication; Quick Climb
13 - Hatchling Flight
14 - Specialized Companion; Aerobatics Mastery
15 - Scare to Death
16 - Clinging Shadows Initiate (monk); Cloud Jump
17 - Wyrmling Flight
18 - Deity’s Domain (Champion); Pickpocket
19 - Incredible Scout
20 - Double Prey; Subtle Theft
8:48 your phrasing in a little weird here and might cause someone to misunderstand. Combat Grab doesn't let you "target either AC or Fort DC and deal damage while grabbing enemies". It let's you target AC using your weapon proficiency instead of targeting Fort DC with Athletics and deal damage while also grabbing the enemy. You can't target Fort DC with Combat Grab. If you want to target Fort DC you have to use Grapple normally.
Barbarian Instinct doesn't matter for grappling? I beg to differ.
Animal Instinct lets you attack with weapons like Jaws and Horns which don't use your hands, thus keeping them open to grapple enemies without sacrificing damage that you would have otherwise sacrificed by going 1-handed or unarmed, and even use a shield in one of those hands if you want. If you choose Deer (the best animal), that's a d12 Reach weapon which doesn't use any hands.
Animal Instinct is the MUST choice for any Barbarian who wants to grapple as a main tactic.
How can you take dragon's presence and kobold weapon familiarity at level one?
one could use the Adopted Ancestry - Kobold to get that weapon?
Could you make a guide on tripping, please?
It's essentially this guide, with less feat support
Wouldn't a lizardfolk actually be really good late game given they can actually be large with a feat which means they can grapple huge creatures
You missed Heroism as a super easy status buff to athletics
I would have like to seen the order in which your sample build took those feats. A bag o' feat is okay, but a build order would have been very useful.
A note on the monk's Clinging Shadows - you can't take it unless you already have Ki spells, so you've already got 2 focus points while you get it.
I also think you'd dramatically undersold clinging shadows. It is, IMO, hands down the best grapple ability in 2e. As far as I can tell, they are the only attacks in the game with reach, grapple AND agile - the ultimate combo for grapple builds. Because you are actually grappling with your ki, rather than your free hand, you can grapple multiple enemies at the same time. The +2 to all grapple checks is just icing on the cake.
so you are telling me that a bard with maestro and warrior muse could buff +7 to atheletics checks? nice
If I’m reading the rules right which I could not be. A cool thing with using a weapon like Fangwire for grappling is since it has the finesse trait you can use Dex instead of Strength
I don't think that's quite right, unfortunately. The finesse trait says it works specifically for attack rolls, which are a specific type of check on CRB page 278. Grapple has the Attack *trait,* meaning it incurs multiple attack penalties, but it is not an attack *roll,* instead being an Athletics check. The difference is a bit subtle. You'd be free to house rule it differently though!
This was possibly true before the two FAQs but is not the case anymore.
I believe this has been changed. I was looking to trip people with a Whip Thief Rogue(since a whip is finesse and a thief uses DEX for damage) but the kind folks at r/Pathfinder2e let me know it doesn't work like that.
That being said, I've seen many comments where people house rule it so weapons with finesse and trip trait use DEX instead of STR.
Videos about stacking bonuses are nice, but I don'T see someone grabbling multiple creatures without them breaking free. With bare hands okay maybe (if they are your size or smaller) but with a fangwire? How do you grapple another creature with it after you already caught one ?(without losing the first grapple)
Slightly better at 1.25x
barbs brutal bully 6th lvl + monks crushing grab 2nd lvl = 3x your strength mod to dmg if you play a animal barb that has grapple a part of your attacks. really nasty
I'm playing a goblin shark animal instinct. at 6th level I'm doing
2d10 (+1 handwraps) +4 (str) +2 (weapon specialization) +4 (brutal bully) +4 (crushing grab).
just seriously nasty on a crit and it's only 6th lvl
So many hmm lol
Excuse me? Assurance plain sucks?
Not for mooks, and also it let's strong characters auto-succeed at *most* not-combat athletics
@@charless1145 Yeah, I was being pedantic :p