I could imagine starting with a single straight bar, splitting one end of it into a Y, and then spreading the upper arms of the Y out to make it into a T shape. Depending on how the piece works, you could set it so the two upper arms are made from the split arms, or so that the lower arm and one of the upper arms are made from the split. You could also combine that with riveting: Rather than drawing out the split end into the entirety of the upper arms, you could make smaller arms and rivet them onto a crossbar. The smaller arms could still do a full 90-degree bend, or do a smaller bend so they still look like a Y. If you're doing MIG welding, you could take three bars each half the width of the final arms, bend two of the bars into L shapes, and assemble them into the final T shape with a weld down the middle of each final arm. You could put a 45-degree twist in the middle of the crossbar, drill a large hole in it, and then round the upper end of the vertical arm and put it through the hole like a rivet and then optionally flatten everything back down. A variant on that: instead of twisting the top crossbar to make the spot to put a hole for the vertical arm to go through, you could make it out of square stock so it's possible to drill it top-to-bottom, and just flatten the ends of the crossbar into leaves to make flat spots for drilling the mounting holes. You could do something like my first suggestion, but instead of splitting a solid bar, you take a long thin bar and bend it back on itself in a U shape and then split the ends out like a cotter pin to make the upper arms (or one upper arm and a lower arm). To functionally join the U part without welding: Twist it together, flatten the twist, and maybe put a rivet through it where the twist ends at the center of the T. Or, instead of twisting the U together, just make a big lazy loop like a cursive lower-case L. Depending on the exact application, you could do a V instead of a T.
My friend, in this difficult time for me your videos are like a hot cup of coffee on a cold morning. It helps me a lot to start another day. Thank you very much.
Great work, as always. For rivets that are going to be hidden or welded in, I've found that regular ol' construction nails are a fantastic source. I use 16 penny, but other sizes work, too. Gotta anneal them first or they don't peen easy. While they're not high-carbon alloy, I've deduced that they are mid-carbon of some sort and work-hardened in the nail-making process. If you anneal the things, you'll see a marked difference in how they work, and it's almost impossible to hammer them into even the softest woods without them bending on you. Crazy to see, that's for sure. Anyhow, great project idea. I just happen to have a spot that could use a curtain instead of the ratty old door that's on it. Never thought about doing some nice bracketry like that, but it would sure dress the place up a bit. Thanks for the motivation!
@@Vikingwerk It can be fun to anneal a few and challenge a friend to try driving them into some wood. Not saying I've ever done such an underhanded thing, though. Just what I heard around the water-cooler. 😁
@@threeriversforge1997 You can buy steel hardened nails for concrete or stone . Those would make superior rivets if you need strength when annealed and hardend. Also maybe nails that are used in those black powder nailguns that shoot trough almost anything.
Any of the three T joints would work and look good but you are wis in letting the Mrs. pick which she likes the best. Thanks for sharing with us John, your videos are appreciated. Stay safe and keep up the good videos. Fred.
Great ideas here! When you said “ball finial” It reminded of that unfortunate guy in the movie Star Wars. He was a “Ball Chinian.” A most unfortunate fellow!
Wow John. You have really done a great job editing your videos and just packing every second with useful and informative info. Can't tell you how much I appreciate your channel and dedication to the craft. Thanks.
Thanks for sharing the multiple solutions to the problem. It’s an art, after all, not a science, and sometimes you need to think about a problem different ways to solve it the best way for the scenario, skill set, and tools at hand.
I've been off youtube forging videos for a while, and I really feel like home sweet home coming back to your latests videos. Great work, thank you very much for that
Good to hear your sound quaity is back to normal. I love this exploration of different ways to make the joint. I'm a big fan of forge welding, but I have to agree that the riveted joint has the most character and is quite attractive. Good idea letting Janet have the final say!
Hello John There are many ways to skin a rabbit As you Show to us . In old times these joints were in use everywere. Today it is good to see it back and you showed us how to Do this elements. Thank you very much for your work Take care have a good nice New week Best wishes Yours Frank Galetzka
Finally got around to making myself a hook rule (took a while to scrounge up a carpenters square to sacrifice, I've got problems 'ruining' a perfectly good tool even if it it a to make a perfectly good tool . . .) so handy, not sure how I got by without it. Thanks! if you ever make it to Saskatchewan I'll stand you a beer.
I'm with you on that. Ended up finding and older square and never looked back. Wish I'd done it sooner. I've burnt a few tape measures over the years. 😁
So calming to watch your videos after watching the news on TV, thanks for being you John. Now letting Janet make the final decision on the curtain rod is a smart move to be sure. 😀
Was having trouble forging a thing to hold wall hanger swords for a friend of mine and this sparked an idea, and a different approach to the plus shape I needed to make. This helped a lot. Keep up the great videos.
John, Another great video. I loved the convenience blend. What a great idea...a beginner like me ...might not have thought of that. I love the forge welded and riveted look, but you are right it's up to the boss. 8) Army SE Oregon
Other ways? Maybe. Thomas Googerty's book shows the making of a cross from wide flat bar by cutting, splitting, & bending. I suspect a similar approach would yield a tee instead of a cross. How much effort would it be? Don't know! Thanks for another top-notch video, John!
From a blacksmithing point of view I like the riveted bracket a lot more than the others, you can get similar brackets to those off the shelf but riveted brackets say blacksmith made like nothing else (slightly snobby way of looking at it but if you are going to the trouble of blacksmithing these items I want people to know it.
When I started and didn't have to confidence or experience to forge-weld, I would use rivets or cut larger stock and open it our to form the 'T', that also has the advantage that, if I wanted, the base 'v' of the cut could be left for aesthetic reasons.
My first thought was riveting, I had not considered the offset bends, the way you did that on the fly press. Fantastic John! Thank you! Also glad to know about the altitude issue. I just moved to Colorado and haven’t setup my forge yet.
The last one with the 4 rivets would make for a nice tie for the next blacksmith party too, with just a bit of a rounded neck piece. It's a "tie - joint" then, so to say. ;D
I instantly had rivets in mind when you were talking about other ways of creating the T joint. But i hadn't seen a lap joint before and i'm loving how it looks!
I struggle with my forge welding but I'm pretty solid with my riveting. I try to avoid the mig welder if I'm trying to do specifically blacksmithing work.
John amazing video today as always. Very beautiful design. I really like them all. Can't wait to see more videos soon. Keep up the great craftsmanship and hard work my friend. Forge On. God Bless.
I love this! I'd like to do a larger version for the entryway I want to build. I would like to have a timber frame porch overhang with the large black metal straping lapping the wood joints since I couldn't do a proper timber frame anyway.
Just been experimenting on lap joints, using a butcher to put a groove on the inside of the bends before making them. You can get a much tighter/squarer fit that way, it seems to work pretty well. Oh, and rivets, for sure. :)
I'm thinking a lap joint, but with a couple of MIG beads on the back for strength would work really well. So long as the rivits don't interfere with the mechanical parts of what you're making.
Neat work as usual! I can imagine a version where a piece of stock is split partway up the middle from one end, then one side of that split is bent down to form the leg of the T and one arm, Then the opposite arm would have to be drawn down to size to match. It would be a hellish amount of work to do by hand, but doing a small one would be good technique practice, as it would slightly resemble the process for an upset square corner to get it crisp and good looking. Better add it to my list of practice projects to try.
thats the way some leg vice brackets are made, the brackets are most often just bent out in a curved Y rather than a full T. Leg vice jaws are often upset then drawn out or made with a T weld. very rarely theyre split and bent out to form the T then a jaw face is forge welded on (I like finding those)
Would it be possible to have a loose-fitting rivet, and that would allow the pieces to rotate to each other when you put it in the forge? And thanks John for showing me what a convenience bend is.
This channel is all about blacksmithing. The one you commented on Yesterday is about everything else. If you make sure your subscribed to this one you should have more of these videos in your feed.
@@BlackBearForge haha I hear that. Can I ask what video / audio gear you're using? The audio is ALWAYS solid with great EQ on your videos, and I'm constantly fidgeting with all my toys, never consistently happy.
I'm using the Canon EOS R and EOS R6. One with a 15 - 35 and the other with 20 -70 lens. For audio I have a Diety shotgun mic for shop sounds and the DJI wireless mic for voice. Levels and EQ are adjusted in Davinci Resolve as part of the editing. There are links to the gear here solo.to/blackbearforge
I just received my 460# Fontanini anvil, its awesome! As you know, the Pritchel hole is 7/8". My 3/4" holdfast is too lose. What do you recommend? Thank you!
I think it depends on the strength you want from the rivets, like I imagine if whatever project you doing is going to be under a lot of pressure then you'd do them hot so you can use bigger rivets. Like on thick pipes that move high pressured liquids or like heavy vehicles like tanks or the vans that move money around the city
Also I do them hot when the rivet is going to be seen in both ends, so I hear them to give them the dome shape in both ends. Hope I helped an a amateur blacksmith so don't take my opinion over others
There is always more than one way to skin the proverbial cat. What other approaches can you think of to create a T joint?
Could you forge a bear trap ? Maybe small one ,not full size ,like a wall clock size . Working wall decoration .
You are the master
I could imagine starting with a single straight bar, splitting one end of it into a Y, and then spreading the upper arms of the Y out to make it into a T shape. Depending on how the piece works, you could set it so the two upper arms are made from the split arms, or so that the lower arm and one of the upper arms are made from the split.
You could also combine that with riveting: Rather than drawing out the split end into the entirety of the upper arms, you could make smaller arms and rivet them onto a crossbar. The smaller arms could still do a full 90-degree bend, or do a smaller bend so they still look like a Y.
If you're doing MIG welding, you could take three bars each half the width of the final arms, bend two of the bars into L shapes, and assemble them into the final T shape with a weld down the middle of each final arm.
You could put a 45-degree twist in the middle of the crossbar, drill a large hole in it, and then round the upper end of the vertical arm and put it through the hole like a rivet and then optionally flatten everything back down.
A variant on that: instead of twisting the top crossbar to make the spot to put a hole for the vertical arm to go through, you could make it out of square stock so it's possible to drill it top-to-bottom, and just flatten the ends of the crossbar into leaves to make flat spots for drilling the mounting holes.
You could do something like my first suggestion, but instead of splitting a solid bar, you take a long thin bar and bend it back on itself in a U shape and then split the ends out like a cotter pin to make the upper arms (or one upper arm and a lower arm). To functionally join the U part without welding: Twist it together, flatten the twist, and maybe put a rivet through it where the twist ends at the center of the T. Or, instead of twisting the U together, just make a big lazy loop like a cursive lower-case L.
Depending on the exact application, you could do a V instead of a T.
i think bronze or bras rivets would look pretty cool on that. i dont know how well that would work.
Perhaps a half lap joint with rivets? May be tough though with that thin of material… 🤔
Rivets in my opinion are under rated, they always look very very cool
I fully agree. Rivets are strong and rustic and are also a good decorative element.
I will sometimes use rivet where there isn't any joint just for the decorative effect.
My friend, in this difficult time for me your videos are like a hot cup of coffee on a cold morning. It helps me a lot to start another day. Thank you very much.
Glad to help
For every video you make, I am one step closer to buying an anvil and a forge. Great tips and information.
Glad to help
The hand hammered rivet method looks nice.
Great work, as always. For rivets that are going to be hidden or welded in, I've found that regular ol' construction nails are a fantastic source. I use 16 penny, but other sizes work, too. Gotta anneal them first or they don't peen easy. While they're not high-carbon alloy, I've deduced that they are mid-carbon of some sort and work-hardened in the nail-making process. If you anneal the things, you'll see a marked difference in how they work, and it's almost impossible to hammer them into even the softest woods without them bending on you. Crazy to see, that's for sure. Anyhow, great project idea. I just happen to have a spot that could use a curtain instead of the ratty old door that's on it. Never thought about doing some nice bracketry like that, but it would sure dress the place up a bit. Thanks for the motivation!
..16-50D make some good rivets...
I’ll admit to having used a few nail-rivets in my time. Did not think of annealing them though, makes sense!
@@Vikingwerk It can be fun to anneal a few and challenge a friend to try driving them into some wood. Not saying I've ever done such an underhanded thing, though. Just what I heard around the water-cooler. 😁
@@threeriversforge1997 You can buy steel hardened nails for concrete or stone . Those would make superior rivets if you need strength when annealed and hardend. Also maybe nails that are used in those black powder nailguns that shoot trough almost anything.
Thanks for showing the different ways of accomplishing the same task, but it is hard to decide which one looks best!
Thanks. I like that you showed us different ways to accomplish the same task.
Any of the three T joints would work and look good but you are wis in letting the Mrs. pick which she likes the best. Thanks for sharing with us John, your videos are appreciated. Stay safe and keep up the good videos. Fred.
Great ideas here!
When you said “ball finial” It reminded of that unfortunate guy in the movie Star Wars. He was a “Ball Chinian.” A most unfortunate fellow!
I definitely like the riveted one the best! It just screams blacksmith to me! 😂
Wow John. You have really done a great job editing your videos and just packing every second with useful and informative info. Can't tell you how much I appreciate your channel and dedication to the craft. Thanks.
Wow, thanks!
I love the looks of the rivets
My personal preference is the lap joint as well. I just like the look of them as decorative elements. Another great video sir. Thank you.👏👏
I liked all three, but I am a big fan of the riveted look
Thanks for sharing the multiple solutions to the problem. It’s an art, after all, not a science, and sometimes you need to think about a problem different ways to solve it the best way for the scenario, skill set, and tools at hand.
I do like the riveted lap joint
I've been off youtube forging videos for a while, and I really feel like home sweet home coming back to your latests videos. Great work, thank you very much for that
Welcome back!
Good to hear your sound quaity is back to normal. I love this exploration of different ways to make the joint. I'm a big fan of forge welding, but I have to agree that the riveted joint has the most character and is quite attractive. Good idea letting Janet have the final say!
I find the visible forge weld to be very pleasing aesthetically.
Thanks for helping us thing outside the box.
Another winner. Great video. I appreciate your consistent high quality videos.
Thank you very much!
"There's more than one way to skin a cat..."
Love your videos.
Thank you for posting.
Hello John
There are many ways to skin a rabbit
As you Show to us .
In old times these joints were in use everywere.
Today it is good to see it back and you showed us how to Do this elements.
Thank you very much for your work
Take care have a good nice New week
Best wishes
Yours Frank Galetzka
I do enjoy your tutorial during forging. Very informative
Finally got around to making myself a hook rule (took a while to scrounge up a carpenters square to sacrifice, I've got problems 'ruining' a perfectly good tool even if it it a to make a perfectly good tool . . .) so handy, not sure how I got by without it. Thanks! if you ever make it to Saskatchewan I'll stand you a beer.
I'm with you on that. Ended up finding and older square and never looked back. Wish I'd done it sooner. I've burnt a few tape measures over the years. 😁
So calming to watch your videos after watching the news on TV, thanks for being you John. Now letting Janet make the final decision on the curtain rod is a smart move to be sure. 😀
Was having trouble forging a thing to hold wall hanger swords for a friend of mine and this sparked an idea, and a different approach to the plus shape I needed to make. This helped a lot. Keep up the great videos.
Glad I could help!
For some reason rivets on steel look good to me, I like the lap joint. A lot.
very nice lap joint technique, thanks John
Thanks for you great work and content, you ar a great teacher and person, i send you greetings from southern Argentina.
I really like the riveted look the best
John,
Another great video.
I loved the convenience blend. What a great idea...a beginner like me ...might not have thought of that.
I love the forge welded and riveted look, but you are right it's up to the boss. 8)
Army
SE Oregon
Glad it was helpful!
Other ways? Maybe. Thomas Googerty's book shows the making of a cross from wide flat bar by cutting, splitting, & bending. I suspect a similar approach would yield a tee instead of a cross. How much effort would it be? Don't know!
Thanks for another top-notch video, John!
From a blacksmithing point of view I like the riveted bracket a lot more than the others, you can get similar brackets to those off the shelf but riveted brackets say blacksmith made like nothing else (slightly snobby way of looking at it but if you are going to the trouble of blacksmithing these items I want people to know it.
Nice, John. My favorite is the lap joint with exposed rivets. Let's see what the boss says.
Bill
I personaly like the rivitt or forge weld and colar for fasting . Just more interesting to look at
This was a great video of joint techniques…thank you.
Good morning
Really neat ideas I think brass rivets would look really neat also thanks for sharing 👍.
Great idea!
Nice work I really like the rivet piece
Like woodworking it's a matter of patience and preference.
Great video, the lesson in the lesson was great
Hello sir. Beautiful display of blacksmithing skills. Nice T weld👍👍🔥🔥🔥🔥
Glad you like it
Thank you for showing the variety of ways to develop a T joint. Watched for years and enjoy
When I started and didn't have to confidence or experience to forge-weld, I would use rivets or cut larger stock and open it our to form the 'T', that also has the advantage that, if I wanted, the base 'v' of the cut could be left for aesthetic reasons.
Lap joint hands down
My first thought was riveting, I had not considered the offset bends, the way you did that on the fly press. Fantastic John! Thank you! Also glad to know about the altitude issue. I just moved to Colorado and haven’t setup my forge yet.
Glad it was helpful!
I like the forge weld, but ecstatic wise the riveted brackets is the boss!
The last one with the 4 rivets would make for a nice tie for the next blacksmith party too, with just a bit of a rounded neck piece. It's a "tie - joint" then, so to say. ;D
I had a very similar thought when I saw it come together
I instantly had rivets in mind when you were talking about other ways of creating the T joint. But i hadn't seen a lap joint before and i'm loving how it looks!
I look forward to your ribbon burner build. I saw a guy on Facebook in a group I'm in that's developed a round ribbon burner.
I like the lap joint with rivets. look even nicer with copper or brass rivets.
I struggle with my forge welding but I'm pretty solid with my riveting. I try to avoid the mig welder if I'm trying to do specifically blacksmithing work.
great video like always , thank you !
John amazing video today as always. Very beautiful design. I really like them all. Can't wait to see more videos soon. Keep up the great craftsmanship and hard work my friend. Forge On. God Bless.
Another great video
Interesting options, like you I prefer to avoid electric welding but sometimes its just the smartest way to do it! Thanks John!👍
I love this! I'd like to do a larger version for the entryway I want to build. I would like to have a timber frame porch overhang with the large black metal straping lapping the wood joints since I couldn't do a proper timber frame anyway.
Just been experimenting on lap joints, using a butcher to put a groove on the inside of the bends before making them. You can get a much tighter/squarer fit that way, it seems to work pretty well. Oh, and rivets, for sure. :)
Love the videos, learning huge amount. Makes me want to go out and try make something like this!
Great video!!! Thx
I'm thinking a lap joint, but with a couple of MIG beads on the back for strength would work really well. So long as the rivits don't interfere with the mechanical parts of what you're making.
Neat work as usual! I can imagine a version where a piece of stock is split partway up the middle from one end, then one side of that split is bent down to form the leg of the T and one arm, Then the opposite arm would have to be drawn down to size to match. It would be a hellish amount of work to do by hand, but doing a small one would be good technique practice, as it would slightly resemble the process for an upset square corner to get it crisp and good looking. Better add it to my list of practice projects to try.
thats the way some leg vice brackets are made, the brackets are most often just bent out in a curved Y rather than a full T.
Leg vice jaws are often upset then drawn out or made with a T weld. very rarely theyre split and bent out to form the T then a jaw face is forge welded on (I like finding those)
Thanks!
WOW!, Thank yous o much for the support.
10:25 yessir, like my grandaddy said "theres a hundred ways to skin a cat"
Would it be possible to have a loose-fitting rivet, and that would allow the pieces to rotate to each other when you put it in the forge? And thanks John for showing me what a convenience bend is.
Yes, but it might be hard to get them lined back up and still make the weld
👍
In Colorado, are the dual burner propane forges able to get to welding temperature okay?
It's nice to see you blacksmithing, and not your camera work. Thank you very much for that
This channel is all about blacksmithing. The one you commented on Yesterday is about everything else. If you make sure your subscribed to this one you should have more of these videos in your feed.
Soo is making a scarf essentially like pulling a clip? I been trying to start scarfing to see if i can forge weld tangs to blades.
I am surprised you actually mig welded something in a vid. There is a first for everything!LOL
Far from the first, but is usually not the focus of the video.
Did you get a new camera? Or did I finally fix the resolution on my monitor screen? Because your video is looking crisper than ever
Thanks, but its the same two cameras I've been using for about a year now. Some days I just get lucky I guess.
@@BlackBearForge haha I hear that. Can I ask what video / audio gear you're using? The audio is ALWAYS solid with great EQ on your videos, and I'm constantly fidgeting with all my toys, never consistently happy.
I'm using the Canon EOS R and EOS R6. One with a 15 - 35 and the other with 20 -70 lens. For audio I have a Diety shotgun mic for shop sounds and the DJI wireless mic for voice. Levels and EQ are adjusted in Davinci Resolve as part of the editing. There are links to the gear here solo.to/blackbearforge
I just received my 460# Fontanini anvil, its awesome! As you know, the Pritchel hole is 7/8". My 3/4" holdfast is too lose. What do you recommend? Thank you!
I still haven't found the perfect work holding solution.
@@BlackBearForge okay
🤘🏼
When you rivet, what is the thought process of whether you do them hot or cold? Is it purely the rivet size?
Another informative vid btw. Thank you.
I think it depends on the strength you want from the rivets, like I imagine if whatever project you doing is going to be under a lot of pressure then you'd do them hot so you can use bigger rivets. Like on thick pipes that move high pressured liquids or like heavy vehicles like tanks or the vans that move money around the city
Also I do them hot when the rivet is going to be seen in both ends, so I hear them to give them the dome shape in both ends. Hope I helped an a amateur blacksmith so don't take my opinion over others
I generally set any rivet under 1/4" cold and anything over 1/4" hot. For 1/4" it depends on the use and how easy it is to access.
Is your rivet material special or just mild steel
Just mild steel
@@BlackBearForge ty