XI, but they sunsetting their then most profitable Final Fantasy title XI, for XIV which costed $400,000,000 in production just to shut that game down.........Then had to remake XIV and ever since has not been able to overcome their first and only mainland FF failure. SE is the modern-day SEGA. Was on top of the gaming world, until they decided they didn't want to be...........
There expectations are based off previous titles. Every decision they have made for the better part of 20 years has been to grow there audience. So you can understand there surprise when ff8 sold more copies than Ff16 and FF7 Rebirth combined. My legit favorite gaming moment of 2023 was Yoshi P the developer of the game going on a turn based combat shit talking tour, talking about “we just can’t reach the kinda audience we are looking for with turn based”. Que the curb your enthusiasm music to Baldurs gate 3 selling 15 million copies and winning game of the year.
I agree with every word Colin said. Like what the hell are SE's expectations. You're selling millions of copies in a short period of time and they are literally never satisfied with sales of anything. Like he said, FF is not CoD, Madden or Fifa. Those games are selling insane numbers due to the casual audience - that audience isn't interested in FF. You're not gonna sell Palworld numbers. They need to lower their expectations to something more realistic, because all their doing is chasing Fortnite numbers of revenue and making their game development based on it.
You’ll never be able to please SE. this is the same company that said Tomb Raider 2013 didn’t meet their expectations……even after selling 14.5 million units.
@@TheMchunney74 Tomb Raider 2013 was discounted early and often. I remember Tomb Raider 2013 steelbook edition being discounted to $9.99. Average price per sale matters as the goal of big sales is always big profits.
This was such a good take on the whole sales and expectations thing, but I don’t like that Jon participated in the whole “final fantasy is doomed and declining” narrative yet he’s here agreeing with Colin that the whole thing is overblown and they’re probably fine
@@tritech8006 it’s fine to have a discussion and change your mind after the fact, so i personally have no issue with that. But I agree that the narrative about FF being that way is annoying
Expectation is for the game to outsell previous release..both release failed to reach previous high. It is not even that high of expectation for the game to do better than previous release.
They've mishandled franchises like Tomb Raider, Deus Ex, Hitman, Guardians of the Galaxy, Final Fantasy XVI, Final Fantasy VII Remake, and Rebirth. None of these games met Square Enix's sales expectations?!!! despite being part of popular series. For over a decade, it's been a pattern-either Square Enix has unrealistic sales goals, or there's something questionable about how they're managing their finances. (-money-laundry- 😅)
If theres one thing i learned reading financial reports to stock and/or shareholders, its when a product or line of products is not selling enough to even make money, they will say xyz thing "didn't meet expectations." Im seeing what i would call a reluctance, if not straight copium, from the panel and even the comments to believe that maybe its not square is just unrealistic about sales number, and maybe more of they HAVE to hit high numbers to get their return back. These games are all graphically intensive, and marketing budgets are not cheap. Games might sell a ton by normal standards but how much did they sell for? Did they outsell their development costs? Their marketing? People say release the game on more systems, but i see many a commentator across the platform claim sony helped develop ff16 and the remake episodes. Does sony still help if they dont have some form of exclusivity or limited exclusivity? If not how much development costs does that add? Capcom gets brought up a lot in terms of doing better selling less but you could easily convince me that street fighter 6 took less then half the budget and/or time to make. Resident Evil 4 was a remake that didnt drastically change its original gameplay to something else entirely. You cant say that about final fantasy which not only dont build on old gameplay but may not even use the same engine (sometimes straight up building new ones which is a whole nother cost to add on top).
Their expectations are probably directly correlated with the game's budget. FF7 rebirth was very expensive looking, and packed with content. They need to match their budget with lower expectations.
@@Mr.Schneebly69actually Yoshi P the developer of FF16 said he finds JRPG to be a derogatory term. That was so funny. A giant portion of there fan base is tired of being given the middle finger. So we are no longer buying there games that are not made for us. They are made for this one guy that commented here. They are legit made for people who think turn based combat is gay. Not trying to offend anyone but it just feels like the truth. When I was young my cousin Gary would make fun of me for playing FF. He would say it was gay… some how my cousin Gary grew up and now runs Shinra Enix. That’s what I like calling Square now a day. They have literately turn in to Shinra sucking the life stream out there ips.
FF16 failed because they cut corners with the game. Anyone whos played it can tell the quality and effort put into 16 was clearly due to cut production costs. They clearly were putting far more budget to the 7 trilogy and cut it from 16. 16 had potential but there was so much wrong with it. I love the story and music and world of the game. But the effort they put? You look at it and 7 trilogy? You can tell the difference as if its night and day.
I agree the 7 trilogy has more budget. I just hope the lack of budget isn’t what stopped 16 from having a more in-depth battle system. That was the biggest thing that had missed potential. Everything else was amazing
I thought it was hilarious how the developer Yoshi P said there was no extra side dungeons cause he didn’t want players to feel like they had to do extra stuff…. Then they released dlc with an extra dungeon… like what are we even doing here. Might as well change the name of the company to Shinra Enix.
For the legacy that SquareEnix has, they have made some of the worst decisions I have ever seen in gaming. How is it even possible to make this many poor decisions and not course correct?
Here the thing the are starting to course correct but it not instantly. For example last year they closed 10,000 of their live service mobile game (how much money did that take from them). Also notice no NFT talk in a while.
Final Fantasy and even Square Enix as they are, will never bounce back from all their failures brought on by FF and a bunch of these shovelware games. The series has an identity problem and Square can't seem to stop milking Final Fantasy 7 which is just sad. That's literally all they're known for. They make these unrealistic expectations hoping that their games would sell 10 million units really fast like how Zelda Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom did. PlayerEssence did a video on FF's struggles and he's absolutely right with what he talked about. Even YongYea did a really good video on it as well. Also, when you look at RPGs like Xenoblade Chronicles, Pokemon, Persona, Dragon Quest, The Mana series, The Trails series, etc, or even indie games like Sea of Stars which is inspired by classic SNES and GBA JRPGs, they all stay true to their Japanese roots and classic gameplay roots and the fans that love their classic style of gameplay will buy them. They DO NOT deviate from their formula or alienate the fans trying to change into a something they are NOT suppose to be (Action RPG). Final Fantasy is literally a dead series that can't stay Japanese and go back to traditional turn-based gameplay roots and be more "niche" again. Plus, they see the success of Nintendo's console and they need Nintendo in order for Square to survive. Develop FF for Nintendo and go back to its Japanese roots! Right now, Square Enix is simply only using Sakaguchi and his game Fantasian Neo Dimension as a sort of "scapegoat" to cover up all their failures with FF16, 7 Rebirth, and several other games (Foamstars, Harvestella, DioField Chronicles, Stranger of Paradise FF Origins, and more) in hopes of making some money back that they lost. That's never gonna work. He should have gone to Nintendo to publish Fantasian. His game may be end up being good IDK, but Square doesn't deserve money from players as a sort of way to get them back on good graces. What's interesting is that, it's as if Square Enix still has that controversial answer from Phil Fish from years ago still locked into their minds or whatever when he was interviewed by a developer and the answer he said at the time that Japanese games "suck" and they should "get with the times" and be more like what western developers were doing. In all honesty, that answer still lingers within Square because with all the recent game failures and their games not meeting expectations and chasing trends over and over again, Square Enix still has that mindset of westernizing their Japanese games and trying to appeal to the wrong type of audience and chasing trends and messing up their gameplay to be more westernized and not being more "niche" and going back to their traditional Japanese RPG roots that fans do want again. Square as they are is so desperate for anything to help get them out of their slump but they refuse to go back to basics.
I’ve been a diehard Final Fantasy fan since the OG Final Fantasy one that came out in 87 in Japan in 1990 here in the USA. Square so has probably an unrealistic expectation that Final Fantasy games have to have the same type of success like super Mario Brothers, Zelda, or even God of war and any of the other Playstation peas that sell extremely well like over 5 to 10,000,000 copies. Has any of the Final Fantasy games sold that much or that many?
I think Square Enix is indeed a bit cocky and sets their expectations too high. It was 16 that made me realise that too. Rebirth cemented it so that I now have no doubt about that. I think the 7 Re Trilogy will indeed end up selling very well, but not until part three comes out. There is no doubt many people waiting to see what the trilogy ends up being before buying. Despite Remake selling more than Rebirth, that will even be affecting Remake's sales not just Rebirths. The trilogy will especially sell well when the inevitable trilogy bundle is released.
The expectation for consumers is that they need to buy a PlayStation console to enjoy the bigger Final Fantasy titles. Whether they want to or not. And there are people who don't want to buy one. So that's a potential customer lost for Square Enix.
I'll play 20 year old final fantasy games on my Switch. I don't need to buy a Playstation to play games that are in every way other than graphically, inferior. Final fantasy kinda sucks now.
75% of Final Fantasy XIII and XV sold on PlayStation so the interested buying audience said we have a PlayStation and SquareEnix accommodated. Fact is the interested audience for Final Fantasy has diminished since they are no longer the graphical showcase game it used to be in the PS1 - PS3 era.
Right, Atlus games have the modern audience now. It doesn’t matter how good a FF game is. Hell, no game they release will be more popular than FF7 remake/rebirth. The franchise may just be done.
They need to focus on trying to make the best rpg of all time. That’s what they used to do. At some point it switched to trying to make the best selling game of all time.
To me, as someone who has never finished a FF game, maybe just tactics, it's just very intimidating to start to play a franchise with 20ish games and like 16 main ones. And yeah, I know they're not really connected, but still, they're usually also one of those that require 50+ hours to finish, and they change the formula so often I kinda even need to research every game to see if it's something I may even like. I actually feel it's a miracle they sell that much when releasing on a single platform
What's stupid about that is that you have players telling others who may be getting into FF or want to know about FF to either play each game in order, or to always play FF7 first (HELL NO on that overrated one). I didn't get to FF myself until the games released on the Game Boy Advance and I had a blast with each of them, but I'm not a diehard fan who needs to play every FF game because honestly not every entry is great or worth the time. IMO, I say play the games that are considered classics to many. FF4 (SNES or GBA), FF6 (SNES or GBA) FF9, and FF10/10-2, and also Tactics Advance. Maybe even FF5 as well. And even enjoy the Dragon Quest games on GBC, DS and 3DS, or the upcoming DQ3 HD-2D remake. **** FF7 and the remakes 🤮. Out of their entire catalogue of franchises, that's the one game that Square is only known for and can never distance themselves away from.
I'm actually thinking good that Final Fantasy isn't meeting their expectations because all they want is something to compensate for poor business decisions like DEI, NFT, and Metaverse type bullshit. Instead they should of focused more on not just making current games even better and bringing back old franchises to the modern day to create a more bigger fanbase of their products. I'd love to see XenoGears and others brought back in this era of action rpgs. Also making sure these game of yours being multi platform is a must if you want to make more money.
@@hododod246I belive it’s very likely they spend less than what they did with XV given the marketing and long development time for that game. Plus this game has Sony engineer and Sony marketing team assist them. 3 millions in a week on a single platform is great number. That’s better launch than the likes of Like a Dragon 8, Persona 3 , Street Fighter, Dragon’s Dogma 2 or even Resident Evil 4. Not sure what Square expectation is.
@@coreymckee4844it most certainly does matter lol. Its doesn't matter it they sold 30 mil, if they lost money on the project it wasnt worth it. Now you could say that square needs to dial back on making games that need such high numbers, but even then they're legally obligated to make more money basically yearly for shareholders unless otherwise informed ahead of time.
I think the issue also might be that these games are exclusive to PlayStation. Me, some of my family, and a few friends, would’ve been absolutely interested in this kind of game but we are all on PC. I know it’s been ported but I think it should’ve been on there day one since I doubt that many people are buying a PS5 for FF. On top of that, they need to get rid of the big number. It’s scaring so many potential newcomers away, even though the games can be enjoyed individually, I don’t think Square is doing enough to show that to casuals who enjoy other single-player action games. I see this all the time in real life and online.
The quote is misinterpreted all the time they mean all of the games together did not meet expectations. They just put some of the big names out there as an example of what released that doesn’t mean those games did not do well.
8:10 FF15 numbers got inflated by putting the game on sale for 99 cents all the time. It had a bunch dlc so they was giving it away. All the games go on sale but they go on sale for 7.99$. Ff15 graphics when it was new was some of the best in the business. So people was buying new consoles seeing this awesome looking open world game on sale for 99 cents. Was a very low risk investment. I can’t prove this l. But I would just about guarantee FF15 is not top 5 for most profitable game. Even if it has the most copies sold. Colin was making weak excuses for FF16 cause he likes it. He even said in this video he thinks it’s a great direction. I wish someone was there to explain to him that there expectations are based off the 15 other games in the series. So when he says they are not Madden or CoD he is not making a good point. All the people who have been telling me I’m wrong since FF15 need to admit that the OG fan base is not showing up anymore. Square has alienated us for too long trying to make games that people who play CoD and Madden will play not games for Final Fantasy fans. Baldurs Gate 3 exists now.. so we can’t say amazing RPGs won’t appeal to a wider audience. Even if they are turn based. That ships has sailed. If you build it’ they will come. Square just refuses to build it. Always chasing some fantasy audience
Problem is they are investing so much into their games, but still profits and growth don’t come, not a good thing for investors so that’s why they say games don’t meet expectations. They need to do something different to grow their business.
Right, Atlus games have the modern audience now. It doesn’t matter how good a FF game is. Hell, no game they release will be more popular than FF7 remake/rebirth. The franchise may just be done.
@@fenrirsfolly92 isn't that's what they're doing with their other multi platform rpgs..... And they're all wet farts, heck even octopath 2 sold worse, i think SE games are getting samey it's fatigue that's making their games sell worse.
@@caliburnblade7895 if that’s what u wanna believe, strange though that the FF Pixel remasters made it to the top 10 on Xbox like 2 days after release tho huh?
Didn't square themselves say hey sold embracer in its entirety because nothing performed? I bought the entire trilogy on three separate platforms but I didn't even pay more then 50 bucks between all nine copies. I dont if I made it to 40. Copies sold is a good starting point, but how much did they actually MAKE and PROFIT?
By going full action combat and making them more open Square Enix thought that they would appeal to a broader audience thus probably expecting their games to hit that 6-10 million mark. But I don't think this has worked out for them. At the end of the day people see them as JRPGs. And JRPGs simply don't appeal to everyone.
It's never worked and never will work for them. IMO, Team Asano with their HD-2D lineup of games and even the Bravely Default games should be the blueprint for FF going forward.
They just assumed the fan base they have been alienating for 20 years would show up. For a lot ff15 was the last straw. That game on the title screen said “a Final Fantasy for fans… and for First Timers” I was so enraged when I first read that. You can say you love FF15 that’s fine. But that game was not made for fans of FF4-10. Every game since 15 has sold less copies. Not that there has been a lot of games. FF6,7,8,9,10,11 was released in a 7 year window. Now it’s 1 mainline game per console generation. That’s wild to me. And they haven’t made one for there OG fans in 20 years. And thems the facts.
This goes for Sega and all the Japanese companies stop not voice acting all the scenes to save money and saying voice acting is expensive. What are you guys doing? Funneling the money money laundering. Game shouldn’t cost that much to produce if you are not paying for this stuff, I hate it like it’s 1998. You got to read the screen in 2024 after you paid $60 for something it’s ridiculous.
Rebirth sold under half of what Remake sold. Which again sold half of what original 7 sold. 16 sold the worst out of any new Final Fantasy since 6. By quite a bit too. You say it isn't a mass market series, but 7-15 sold all around 10 million each. And 16 is their big attempt at making a more mass market friendly version, but it sells worse than any 3D Final Fantasy.
The problem with square is when you come down to looking at their other divisions and other products... Square is A GAMING company, but they are so far up thier own ass that they want to be a Disney level big company that turns every single damn IP they own into some Gucci lifestyle status brand.
Final fantasy rebirth dint do well cause it was purely on the ps5 when the install base is still widely on ps4 and limiting it to just PlayStations eco system has also cut there revenue so much it hard to argue against number projections feeling like the game hasn’t sold bad.
Squaresoft >>>>>>>>>>>>> Square Enix. Post merger, the company became a shell of its former self. They had not created a single game since then that even came close to Squaresoft masterpieces. Squaresoft was a creative powerhouse, that was far and away the best game studio of the 90s. A Final Fantasy released back then was a cultural event. Now, the framchise is just decent. And this is not even mentioning their pathetic attempts at new IPs like Forspoken.
They have alienated long time fans, and went forward in (action) directions that haven't had any real success. I played 5 hours of XVI and couldn't do anymore
Final Fantasy does not have the staying power like it once did, there are too many RPGS it has to compete with and compete for a consumers time. Also, new comers to FF, get immediately turned off from the Series when they see a title named FF16 because the casual consumer thinks to themselves, i have to play fifteen other games? Screw this.
Square enix is suffering from the same thing capcom did during the 2010s decade, they try way too hard to cater to western audiences,(they assume we only like big explosions, realistic graphics and shooters). They should make the games they did in the 90s. The core gamers who love their stuff will come, and when they believe its great, the word of mouth they give is what will bring in the mass market. Souls games for the longest time were shunned by most of the industry and shelved as "niche". Steadily with releases like dark souls and bloodborne, they began to break through, up to the point elden ring is now looked at as the center of the industry. Dont pander, create what you know.
I feel like they used to at least “try” to make the best Rpg ever made with every new game… at some point that changed to “trying” to make the best selling game of all time.
2:30 Square probably at this point - afraid to ask players how they feel about the game. They all have toxic positivity there like in 9-5 office. And it's total opposite of what Nintendo is doing.
They are delusional, it took over a year and a half for xenoblade 2 to sell 2 million copies and be on a sale, ff16 can sell 3 million for 70 usd in a few days and it was "failure". Good luck putting a final fantasy on the switch and thinking it will sell millions of copies, the jrpg audience isnt that big.
I just want to explain why to the guy at 2:10 . There expectations are never met cause every decision they have made with the franchise for the last 20 years has been to reach a wider audience. FF6,7,8,9,10 was released over a 7 year window.FF16 was 7 years of development. And FF8 sold more copies than FF16 and FF7rebirth combined. There expectations are from when they used to just try to make the best RPG of all time with every new game . Stop asking why Shinra Enix is failing. They have been alienating there core audience for to long they are no longer showing up. And most the average Joe wider audience they are targeting think they are a weird anime thing. At some point they stopped trying to make all time great games and started trying to make games that would sell the most. And you know what they say. If you try and make something for everyone you end up making something for nobody.
I will say to this, the biggest thing helping FF8's sales was that it was fresh off the heels of FF7. At the time people were ready to eat it up. But otherwise yeah everything you said is true.
@@jigglynorris2559 I like 12… but I think it was the start… it’s kinda when they stopped trying to do them and started trying to do what’s popular. WoW and Mmos was blowing up so they was like “let’s do a mmo hybrid combat to try and bring in there fan base”. I don’t know who FF13 was for… FF15 they started developing when open world games was blowing up. And FF16 the developers said multiple times they was going for God of war mixed with game of thrones… they are always trying to do what ever is popular at the time… hopefully for FF17 they will try copying Baldurs Gate 3.
Stop being a idealog for multi platform. Just spraying your product around and raising production cost and complexity is going to appreciably increase your interested audience. Final Fantasy is not COD, 2K, FC or Madden today as Colin point out. making a game multiplat would just raise SquareEnix's projections accordingly and they still would fail to meet expectations.
I would also say that most people realized FFRB would end with the death of a major beloved character which maybe many decided to wait until the last game comes out. For me, it was such a depressing ending that I probably won't revisit until later on.
Maybe don't exclude gamers day 1 If those FF titles would have released to a wider audience than the small PS5 base. AND when they come to PC, if Square wouldn't do those exclusives with Epic, maybe then those games would have been a bigger success. Exclusivity of third party games only hurts the publisher and gamer, and therefore the entire industry.
Multi Platform has nothing to do with game performance, just a interested audience. Look at how many exclusive Nintendo titles on the Switch sold 10 million plus. 21 games to be precise more 10 million+ sellers than Gen 1 to gen 6 consoles combined (20) including handhelds. Keep in mind the NES, Gameboy, GBA, PS1 and PS2 were in those gens.
@@Shinjiduo Off course has multi platform to do with the performance of sold units. The more platforms is sold on, the more potential customers. Really simple logic. Especially important for games that are third party. If Nintendo sold their games on other platforms, it would be more, not less or equal. Not everyone has a Switch. And that's the same principle with Final Fantasy locked to the small PS5. If Final Fantasy gets ported later on to PC, then it lacks the advertisement and hype. For many its old game at this point. So its important that third party games do not any exclusivity and sell on all platforms at the same time, if they want maximum sold units.
@@thingsiplay No, simply putting a game on more platforms just means selling maybe a little more to generally the same audience over multiple platforms if the game is niche. The audience interest is what is important not accessibility, as clearly shown in my Nintendo Switch example. You even admitted the sales would possibly be not more if Nintendo went multi-plat but their project scopes, dev time frames and expenses would go up 100% guaranteed. Also their margins per sale would go down 100% guaranteed as 3rd party licensing fees are not cheap. Nintendo's industry leading profit margins would definitely go down considerably. The 3rd party must be multi plat narrative is just a disingenuous drone started from Gabe Newell to line his own pockets. It is amazing few people in the gaming community actually uses critical thinking to actually analyze "axioms" like this. In selling a product the most important thing is to identify your audience and serve them cause you will never be able to please everyone. Spraying product around has never been particularly effective or efficient. Maximum profit is the goal of the company, not maximum units sold. You think if someone wanted to purchase a single copy of Final Fantasy XVII for $2 billion and it be exclusive to that one customer SquareEnix would not sell that one unit happily?
@@Shinjiduo Its simple math: more platforms > more audience Also I did not admit Nintendos sales wouldn't be more if it was multi plat. I'm not sure what you are reading. Besides the point you brought up NIntendo, but the discussion is about third party. You know why Microsoft and Sony sells their games on PC? Because selling them on their own console is not big enough of an audience. Nintendo would have much more games sold, if they would release them on other platforms as well. Its really that simple. Not everyone has all hardware.
@@thingsiplay I mis read you line but point is selling more however, my point about selling more to get less profit is counter productive still stands. Also again if people do not have the platform your game is on then are they interested in it? Selling 20% more copies over four platforms day one is going to be less profitable then selling on one platform for most games. Also as stated in my last reply dev time frames would go up which is bad if you do many projects like Nintendo or SquareEnix.
@@Zanzabari I get it; you think that was a joke. You've insisted on this twice for some reason. Maybe if you insist a third time someone will actually believe you?
Does anything ever reach Square Enix expectations?
Trials of Mana and the SaGa re-releases significantly exceeded Square Enix's expectations.
XI, but they sunsetting their then most profitable Final Fantasy title XI, for XIV which costed $400,000,000 in production just to shut that game down.........Then had to remake XIV and ever since has not been able to overcome their first and only mainland FF failure.
SE is the modern-day SEGA. Was on top of the gaming world, until they decided they didn't want to be...........
There expectations are based off previous titles. Every decision they have made for the better part of 20 years has been to grow there audience. So you can understand there surprise when ff8 sold more copies than Ff16 and FF7 Rebirth combined. My legit favorite gaming moment of 2023 was Yoshi P the developer of the game going on a turn based combat shit talking tour, talking about “we just can’t reach the kinda audience we are looking for with turn based”. Que the curb your enthusiasm music to Baldurs gate 3 selling 15 million copies and winning game of the year.
@@Theb0YWh0lived1 *Their
*their
*their
Yes
Nier Automata has reached AND SURPASSED ALL of Squares Expectations
If you squint while you watch, they look like triplets
😂
I agree with every word Colin said. Like what the hell are SE's expectations. You're selling millions of copies in a short period of time and they are literally never satisfied with sales of anything. Like he said, FF is not CoD, Madden or Fifa. Those games are selling insane numbers due to the casual audience - that audience isn't interested in FF. You're not gonna sell Palworld numbers. They need to lower their expectations to something more realistic, because all their doing is chasing Fortnite numbers of revenue and making their game development based on it.
You’ll never be able to please SE. this is the same company that said Tomb Raider 2013 didn’t meet their expectations……even after selling 14.5 million units.
@@TheMchunney74 Tomb Raider 2013 was discounted early and often. I remember Tomb Raider 2013 steelbook edition being discounted to $9.99. Average price per sale matters as the goal of big sales is always big profits.
This was such a good take on the whole sales and expectations thing, but I don’t like that Jon participated in the whole “final fantasy is doomed and declining” narrative yet he’s here agreeing with Colin that the whole thing is overblown and they’re probably fine
@@tritech8006 it’s fine to have a discussion and change your mind after the fact, so i personally have no issue with that. But I agree that the narrative about FF being that way is annoying
Expectation is for the game to outsell previous release..both release failed to reach previous high.
It is not even that high of expectation for the game to do better than previous release.
They've mishandled franchises like Tomb Raider, Deus Ex, Hitman, Guardians of the Galaxy, Final Fantasy XVI, Final Fantasy VII Remake, and Rebirth. None of these games met Square Enix's sales expectations?!!! despite being part of popular series. For over a decade, it's been a pattern-either Square Enix has unrealistic sales goals, or there's something questionable about how they're managing their finances. (-money-laundry- 😅)
If theres one thing i learned reading financial reports to stock and/or shareholders, its when a product or line of products is not selling enough to even make money, they will say xyz thing "didn't meet expectations."
Im seeing what i would call a reluctance, if not straight copium, from the panel and even the comments to believe that maybe its not square is just unrealistic about sales number, and maybe more of they HAVE to hit high numbers to get their return back. These games are all graphically intensive, and marketing budgets are not cheap. Games might sell a ton by normal standards but how much did they sell for? Did they outsell their development costs? Their marketing? People say release the game on more systems, but i see many a commentator across the platform claim sony helped develop ff16 and the remake episodes. Does sony still help if they dont have some form of exclusivity or limited exclusivity? If not how much development costs does that add?
Capcom gets brought up a lot in terms of doing better selling less but you could easily convince me that street fighter 6 took less then half the budget and/or time to make. Resident Evil 4 was a remake that didnt drastically change its original gameplay to something else entirely. You cant say that about final fantasy which not only dont build on old gameplay but may not even use the same engine (sometimes straight up building new ones which is a whole nother cost to add on top).
Their expectations are probably directly correlated with the game's budget. FF7 rebirth was very expensive looking, and packed with content. They need to match their budget with lower expectations.
Glad you guys are always gettin Colin on now
I think you got the wrong idea about FFXVI. That’s not what the fans of the franchise want
Speak for yourself, I enjoyed FF16 and I rather prefer the new direction. Frankly, Jrpgs take way too long for something that is turn-based.
@@GTOmegaZ3000 final fantasy is a JRPG series I regret to inform you.
@@Mr.Schneebly69actually Yoshi P the developer of FF16 said he finds JRPG to be a derogatory term. That was so funny. A giant portion of there fan base is tired of being given the middle finger. So we are no longer buying there games that are not made for us. They are made for this one guy that commented here. They are legit made for people who think turn based combat is gay. Not trying to offend anyone but it just feels like the truth. When I was young my cousin Gary would make fun of me for playing FF. He would say it was gay… some how my cousin Gary grew up and now runs Shinra Enix. That’s what I like calling Square now a day. They have literately turn in to Shinra sucking the life stream out there ips.
Thats what happens when you throw millions of xbox sales away for a quick buck
FF16 failed because they cut corners with the game. Anyone whos played it can tell the quality and effort put into 16 was clearly due to cut production costs. They clearly were putting far more budget to the 7 trilogy and cut it from 16. 16 had potential but there was so much wrong with it. I love the story and music and world of the game. But the effort they put? You look at it and 7 trilogy? You can tell the difference as if its night and day.
I agree the 7 trilogy has more budget. I just hope the lack of budget isn’t what stopped 16 from having a more in-depth battle system. That was the biggest thing that had missed potential. Everything else was amazing
I thought it was hilarious how the developer Yoshi P said there was no extra side dungeons cause he didn’t want players to feel like they had to do extra stuff…. Then they released dlc with an extra dungeon… like what are we even doing here. Might as well change the name of the company to Shinra Enix.
For the legacy that SquareEnix has, they have made some of the worst decisions I have ever seen in gaming. How is it even possible to make this many poor decisions and not course correct?
Here the thing the are starting to course correct but it not instantly. For example last year they closed 10,000 of their live service mobile game (how much money did that take from them). Also notice no NFT talk in a while.
Final Fantasy and even Square Enix as they are, will never bounce back from all their failures brought on by FF and a bunch of these shovelware games. The series has an identity problem and Square can't seem to stop milking Final Fantasy 7 which is just sad. That's literally all they're known for. They make these unrealistic expectations hoping that their games would sell 10 million units really fast like how Zelda Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom did. PlayerEssence did a video on FF's struggles and he's absolutely right with what he talked about. Even YongYea did a really good video on it as well. Also, when you look at RPGs like Xenoblade Chronicles, Pokemon, Persona, Dragon Quest, The Mana series, The Trails series, etc, or even indie games like Sea of Stars which is inspired by classic SNES and GBA JRPGs, they all stay true to their Japanese roots and classic gameplay roots and the fans that love their classic style of gameplay will buy them. They DO NOT deviate from their formula or alienate the fans trying to change into a something they are NOT suppose to be (Action RPG). Final Fantasy is literally a dead series that can't stay Japanese and go back to traditional turn-based gameplay roots and be more "niche" again. Plus, they see the success of Nintendo's console and they need Nintendo in order for Square to survive. Develop FF for Nintendo and go back to its Japanese roots! Right now, Square Enix is simply only using Sakaguchi and his game Fantasian Neo Dimension as a sort of "scapegoat" to cover up all their failures with FF16, 7 Rebirth, and several other games (Foamstars, Harvestella, DioField Chronicles, Stranger of Paradise FF Origins, and more) in hopes of making some money back that they lost. That's never gonna work. He should have gone to Nintendo to publish Fantasian. His game may be end up being good IDK, but Square doesn't deserve money from players as a sort of way to get them back on good graces.
What's interesting is that, it's as if Square Enix still has that controversial answer from Phil Fish from years ago still locked into their minds or whatever when he was interviewed by a developer and the answer he said at the time that Japanese games "suck" and they should "get with the times" and be more like what western developers were doing. In all honesty, that answer still lingers within Square because with all the recent game failures and their games not meeting expectations and chasing trends over and over again, Square Enix still has that mindset of westernizing their Japanese games and trying to appeal to the wrong type of audience and chasing trends and messing up their gameplay to be more westernized and not being more "niche" and going back to their traditional Japanese RPG roots that fans do want again. Square as they are is so desperate for anything to help get them out of their slump but they refuse to go back to basics.
I’ve been a diehard Final Fantasy fan since the OG Final Fantasy one that came out in 87 in Japan in 1990 here in the USA. Square so has probably an unrealistic expectation that Final Fantasy games have to have the same type of success like super Mario Brothers, Zelda, or even God of war and any of the other Playstation peas that sell extremely well like over 5 to 10,000,000 copies. Has any of the Final Fantasy games sold that much or that many?
I think Square Enix is indeed a bit cocky and sets their expectations too high. It was 16 that made me realise that too. Rebirth cemented it so that I now have no doubt about that.
I think the 7 Re Trilogy will indeed end up selling very well, but not until part three comes out. There is no doubt many people waiting to see what the trilogy ends up being before buying. Despite Remake selling more than Rebirth, that will even be affecting Remake's sales not just Rebirths. The trilogy will especially sell well when the inevitable trilogy bundle is released.
The expectation for consumers is that they need to buy a PlayStation console to enjoy the bigger Final Fantasy titles. Whether they want to or not. And there are people who don't want to buy one. So that's a potential customer lost for Square Enix.
This should be factored into their expectations imo not an excuse anymore.
Nailed it.
I'll play 20 year old final fantasy games on my Switch. I don't need to buy a Playstation to play games that are in every way other than graphically, inferior. Final fantasy kinda sucks now.
75% of Final Fantasy XIII and XV sold on PlayStation so the interested buying audience said we have a PlayStation and SquareEnix accommodated. Fact is the interested audience for Final Fantasy has diminished since they are no longer the graphical showcase game it used to be in the PS1 - PS3 era.
Your wrong in your comment
FF won't sell crazy numbers these days regardless of how many platfroms it is on. Square needs to keep their expectations in check
It's crazy that a game can review in the top 5 and not sell. It's pretty crazy that only about 2-3 games hit it big in a given year anymore.
Right, Atlus games have the modern audience now. It doesn’t matter how good a FF game is. Hell, no game they release will be more popular than FF7 remake/rebirth. The franchise may just be done.
They need to focus on trying to make the best rpg of all time. That’s what they used to do. At some point it switched to trying to make the best selling game of all time.
@@Theb0YWh0lived1 that’s dumb, they are the same thing
Quit making it exclusive
To me, as someone who has never finished a FF game, maybe just tactics, it's just very intimidating to start to play a franchise with 20ish games and like 16 main ones. And yeah, I know they're not really connected, but still, they're usually also one of those that require 50+ hours to finish, and they change the formula so often I kinda even need to research every game to see if it's something I may even like.
I actually feel it's a miracle they sell that much when releasing on a single platform
What's stupid about that is that you have players telling others who may be getting into FF or want to know about FF to either play each game in order, or to always play FF7 first (HELL NO on that overrated one). I didn't get to FF myself until the games released on the Game Boy Advance and I had a blast with each of them, but I'm not a diehard fan who needs to play every FF game because honestly not every entry is great or worth the time. IMO, I say play the games that are considered classics to many. FF4 (SNES or GBA), FF6 (SNES or GBA) FF9, and FF10/10-2, and also Tactics Advance. Maybe even FF5 as well. And even enjoy the Dragon Quest games on GBC, DS and 3DS, or the upcoming DQ3 HD-2D remake.
**** FF7 and the remakes 🤮. Out of their entire catalogue of franchises, that's the one game that Square is only known for and can never distance themselves away from.
I'm actually thinking good that Final Fantasy isn't meeting their expectations because all they want is something to compensate for poor business decisions like DEI, NFT, and Metaverse type bullshit. Instead they should of focused more on not just making current games even better and bringing back old franchises to the modern day to create a more bigger fanbase of their products. I'd love to see XenoGears and others brought back in this era of action rpgs. Also making sure these game of yours being multi platform is a must if you want to make more money.
If they keep games only on Playstation then this will happen. Never gonna buy a PS5.
Sells 3mil copies.. still not enough for square.. god their logic is dumb.🙄
Do you know how much money did they spend for the game?
@@hododod246 dont matter. Square always has stupid expectations for their games nothing is ever enough.🙄
Square puts out a lot of flops, ps exclusive content doesn't help either. Final Fantasy isn't a big name that resonates with all these new gamers
@@hododod246I belive it’s very likely they spend less than what they did with XV given the marketing and long development time for that game. Plus this game has Sony engineer and Sony marketing team assist them. 3 millions in a week on a single platform is great number. That’s better launch than the likes of Like a Dragon 8, Persona 3 , Street Fighter, Dragon’s Dogma 2 or even Resident Evil 4. Not sure what Square expectation is.
@@coreymckee4844it most certainly does matter lol. Its doesn't matter it they sold 30 mil, if they lost money on the project it wasnt worth it.
Now you could say that square needs to dial back on making games that need such high numbers, but even then they're legally obligated to make more money basically yearly for shareholders unless otherwise informed ahead of time.
I think the issue also might be that these games are exclusive to PlayStation. Me, some of my family, and a few friends, would’ve been absolutely interested in this kind of game but we are all on PC. I know it’s been ported but I think it should’ve been on there day one since I doubt that many people are buying a PS5 for FF.
On top of that, they need to get rid of the big number. It’s scaring so many potential newcomers away, even though the games can be enjoyed individually, I don’t think Square is doing enough to show that to casuals who enjoy other single-player action games. I see this all the time in real life and online.
The quote is misinterpreted all the time they mean all of the games together did not meet expectations. They just put some of the big names out there as an example of what released that doesn’t mean those games did not do well.
8:10 FF15 numbers got inflated by putting the game on sale for 99 cents all the time. It had a bunch dlc so they was giving it away. All the games go on sale but they go on sale for 7.99$. Ff15 graphics when it was new was some of the best in the business. So people was buying new consoles seeing this awesome looking open world game on sale for 99 cents. Was a very low risk investment. I can’t prove this l. But I would just about guarantee FF15 is not top 5 for most profitable game. Even if it has the most copies sold. Colin was making weak excuses for FF16 cause he likes it. He even said in this video he thinks it’s a great direction. I wish someone was there to explain to him that there expectations are based off the 15 other games in the series. So when he says they are not Madden or CoD he is not making a good point. All the people who have been telling me I’m wrong since FF15 need to admit that the OG fan base is not showing up anymore. Square has alienated us for too long trying to make games that people who play CoD and Madden will play not games for Final Fantasy fans. Baldurs Gate 3 exists now.. so we can’t say amazing RPGs won’t appeal to a wider audience. Even if they are turn based. That ships has sailed. If you build it’ they will come. Square just refuses to build it. Always chasing some fantasy audience
How I feel like everyone owns this game how can that not reach your expectations when literally everybody owns it that I know
Problem is they are investing so much into their games, but still profits and growth don’t come, not a good thing for investors so that’s why they say games don’t meet expectations. They need to do something different to grow their business.
Right, Atlus games have the modern audience now. It doesn’t matter how good a FF game is. Hell, no game they release will be more popular than FF7 remake/rebirth. The franchise may just be done.
Wrong!!!! They said the digital division that quote you read is edited.
Colin's speaking facts
Lower your expectations.
Make a smaller, cheaper game with the IP.
And release it everywhere
@@fenrirsfolly92 isn't that's what they're doing with their other multi platform rpgs..... And they're all wet farts, heck even octopath 2 sold worse, i think SE games are getting samey it's fatigue that's making their games sell worse.
@@caliburnblade7895 if that’s what u wanna believe, strange though that the FF Pixel remasters made it to the top 10 on Xbox like 2 days after release tho huh?
That Tomb Raider trilogy sold over 30,000,000 copies. It was nowhere near a failure.
Didn't square themselves say hey sold embracer in its entirety because nothing performed? I bought the entire trilogy on three separate platforms but I didn't even pay more then 50 bucks between all nine copies. I dont if I made it to 40. Copies sold is a good starting point, but how much did they actually MAKE and PROFIT?
On what earth did TR Trilogy sell 30 million copies?
By going full action combat and making them more open Square Enix thought that they would appeal to a broader audience thus probably expecting their games to hit that 6-10 million mark. But I don't think this has worked out for them. At the end of the day people see them as JRPGs. And JRPGs simply don't appeal to everyone.
It's never worked and never will work for them. IMO, Team Asano with their HD-2D lineup of games and even the Bravely Default games should be the blueprint for FF going forward.
They just assumed the fan base they have been alienating for 20 years would show up. For a lot ff15 was the last straw. That game on the title screen said “a Final Fantasy for fans… and for First Timers” I was so enraged when I first read that. You can say you love FF15 that’s fine. But that game was not made for fans of FF4-10. Every game since 15 has sold less copies. Not that there has been a lot of games. FF6,7,8,9,10,11 was released in a 7 year window. Now it’s 1 mainline game per console generation. That’s wild to me. And they haven’t made one for there OG fans in 20 years. And thems the facts.
Investers wants the money back now, not in 15years when it drops on Iphone 30.
This goes for Sega and all the Japanese companies stop not voice acting all the scenes to save money and saying voice acting is expensive. What are you guys doing? Funneling the money money laundering. Game shouldn’t cost that much to produce if you are not paying for this stuff, I hate it like it’s 1998. You got to read the screen in 2024 after you paid $60 for something it’s ridiculous.
Rebirth sold under half of what Remake sold. Which again sold half of what original 7 sold. 16 sold the worst out of any new Final Fantasy since 6. By quite a bit too. You say it isn't a mass market series, but 7-15 sold all around 10 million each. And 16 is their big attempt at making a more mass market friendly version, but it sells worse than any 3D Final Fantasy.
The problem with square is when you come down to looking at their other divisions and other products...
Square is A GAMING company, but they are so far up thier own ass that they want to be a Disney level big company that turns every single damn IP they own into some Gucci lifestyle status brand.
Final fantasy rebirth dint do well cause it was purely on the ps5 when the install base is still widely on ps4 and limiting it to just PlayStations eco system has also cut there revenue so much it hard to argue against number projections feeling like the game hasn’t sold bad.
Rebirth was hurt by the filler missions
Colin! So nice to see you after so long! Last time you said switch was DOA lmao
Squaresoft >>>>>>>>>>>>> Square Enix.
Post merger, the company became a shell of its former self. They had not created a single game since then that even came close to Squaresoft masterpieces. Squaresoft was a creative powerhouse, that was far and away the best game studio of the 90s. A Final Fantasy released back then was a cultural event. Now, the framchise is just decent. And this is not even mentioning their pathetic attempts at new IPs like Forspoken.
They have alienated long time fans, and went forward in (action) directions that haven't had any real success. I played 5 hours of XVI and couldn't do anymore
I agree with your point of view but street fighter on all major platforms sold 1 million with like months of sales
Final Fantasy does not have the staying power like it once did, there are too many RPGS it has to compete with and compete for a consumers time.
Also, new comers to FF, get immediately turned off from the Series when they see a title named FF16 because the casual consumer thinks to themselves, i have to play fifteen other games?
Screw this.
Did not buy them cause of the performance I think many will buy them on the Pro. But 16 needs that patch.
Square enix is suffering from the same thing capcom did during the 2010s decade, they try way too hard to cater to western audiences,(they assume we only like big explosions, realistic graphics and shooters). They should make the games they did in the 90s. The core gamers who love their stuff will come, and when they believe its great, the word of mouth they give is what will bring in the mass market. Souls games for the longest time were shunned by most of the industry and shelved as "niche". Steadily with releases like dark souls and bloodborne, they began to break through, up to the point elden ring is now looked at as the center of the industry. Dont pander, create what you know.
I feel like they used to at least “try” to make the best Rpg ever made with every new game… at some point that changed to “trying” to make the best selling game of all time.
2:30 Square probably at this point - afraid to ask players how they feel about the game. They all have toxic positivity there like in 9-5 office. And it's total opposite of what Nintendo is doing.
They are delusional, it took over a year and a half for xenoblade 2 to sell 2 million copies and be on a sale, ff16 can sell 3 million for 70 usd in a few days and it was "failure".
Good luck putting a final fantasy on the switch and thinking it will sell millions of copies, the jrpg audience isnt that big.
Facts
I just want to explain why to the guy at 2:10 . There expectations are never met cause every decision they have made with the franchise for the last 20 years has been to reach a wider audience. FF6,7,8,9,10 was released over a 7 year window.FF16 was 7 years of development. And FF8 sold more copies than FF16 and FF7rebirth combined. There expectations are from when they used to just try to make the best RPG of all time with every new game . Stop asking why Shinra Enix is failing. They have been alienating there core audience for to long they are no longer showing up. And most the average Joe wider audience they are targeting think they are a weird anime thing. At some point they stopped trying to make all time great games and started trying to make games that would sell the most. And you know what they say. If you try and make something for everyone you end up making something for nobody.
I will say to this, the biggest thing helping FF8's sales was that it was fresh off the heels of FF7. At the time people were ready to eat it up. But otherwise yeah everything you said is true.
@@jigglynorris2559 ok change FF8 to FF13. It also out sold both games combined as well.
@@Theb0YWh0lived1 Yep. And it wasn't even that great of a game either. I think that was the real start of the problems with FF13
@@jigglynorris2559 I like 12… but I think it was the start… it’s kinda when they stopped trying to do them and started trying to do what’s popular. WoW and Mmos was blowing up so they was like “let’s do a mmo hybrid combat to try and bring in there fan base”. I don’t know who FF13 was for… FF15 they started developing when open world games was blowing up. And FF16 the developers said multiple times they was going for God of war mixed with game of thrones… they are always trying to do what ever is popular at the time… hopefully for FF17 they will try copying Baldurs Gate 3.
They would have made more if they didnt have exclusive to Sony. They lost out on that deal. Just don't have exclusive deals. Plain and simple.
Stop being a idealog for multi platform. Just spraying your product around and raising production cost and complexity is going to appreciably increase your interested audience. Final Fantasy is not COD, 2K, FC or Madden today as Colin point out. making a game multiplat would just raise SquareEnix's projections accordingly and they still would fail to meet expectations.
I would also say that most people realized FFRB would end with the death of a major beloved character which maybe many decided to wait until the last game comes out. For me, it was such a depressing ending that I probably won't revisit until later on.
That’s Sony dud again, don’t worry they will have new life on Xbox
WTF get this dude out, FF16 failed because it didn't recouped their money or makde money
Square Enix thinks Final Fantasy is gonna sell 10 million copies in 3 days like Tears of the Kingdom did. No sales figures will satisfy them.
FF doesn't have anymore that same spark or ambition that the Zelda franchise has. When we hear Zelda, you know it's going to be top-tier quality.
Also honestly, developer MonolithSoft is the new SquareSoft and their Xenoblade franchise is modern FF done right.
@@kevinramirez3134not true at all lol
Rebirth wouldn't have cost so much if they didn't bloat it to 100 hrs.
Maybe don't exclude gamers day 1
If those FF titles would have released to a wider audience than the small PS5 base. AND when they come to PC, if Square wouldn't do those exclusives with Epic, maybe then those games would have been a bigger success. Exclusivity of third party games only hurts the publisher and gamer, and therefore the entire industry.
Multi Platform has nothing to do with game performance, just a interested audience. Look at how many exclusive Nintendo titles on the Switch sold 10 million plus. 21 games to be precise more 10 million+ sellers than Gen 1 to gen 6 consoles combined (20) including handhelds. Keep in mind the NES, Gameboy, GBA, PS1 and PS2 were in those gens.
@@Shinjiduo Off course has multi platform to do with the performance of sold units. The more platforms is sold on, the more potential customers. Really simple logic. Especially important for games that are third party.
If Nintendo sold their games on other platforms, it would be more, not less or equal. Not everyone has a Switch. And that's the same principle with Final Fantasy locked to the small PS5.
If Final Fantasy gets ported later on to PC, then it lacks the advertisement and hype. For many its old game at this point. So its important that third party games do not any exclusivity and sell on all platforms at the same time, if they want maximum sold units.
@@thingsiplay No, simply putting a game on more platforms just means selling maybe a little more to generally the same audience over multiple platforms if the game is niche. The audience interest is what is important not accessibility, as clearly shown in my Nintendo Switch example.
You even admitted the sales would possibly be not more if Nintendo went multi-plat but their project scopes, dev time frames and expenses would go up 100% guaranteed. Also their margins per sale would go down 100% guaranteed as 3rd party licensing fees are not cheap. Nintendo's industry leading profit margins would definitely go down considerably.
The 3rd party must be multi plat narrative is just a disingenuous drone started from Gabe Newell to line his own pockets. It is amazing few people in the gaming community actually uses critical thinking to actually analyze "axioms" like this. In selling a product the most important thing is to identify your audience and serve them cause you will never be able to please everyone.
Spraying product around has never been particularly effective or efficient. Maximum profit is the goal of the company, not maximum units sold. You think if someone wanted to purchase a single copy of Final Fantasy XVII for $2 billion and it be exclusive to that one customer SquareEnix would not sell that one unit happily?
@@Shinjiduo Its simple math: more platforms > more audience
Also I did not admit Nintendos sales wouldn't be more if it was multi plat. I'm not sure what you are reading. Besides the point you brought up NIntendo, but the discussion is about third party.
You know why Microsoft and Sony sells their games on PC? Because selling them on their own console is not big enough of an audience. Nintendo would have much more games sold, if they would release them on other platforms as well. Its really that simple. Not everyone has all hardware.
@@thingsiplay I mis read you line but point is selling more however, my point about selling more to get less profit is counter productive still stands. Also again if people do not have the platform your game is on then are they interested in it? Selling 20% more copies over four platforms day one is going to be less profitable then selling on one platform for most games. Also as stated in my last reply dev time frames would go up which is bad if you do many projects like Nintendo or SquareEnix.
Here comes grift wave podcast
...You've never looked up the definition of the word "grift," have you?
@@DanielZeal just a joke bro relax
@@Zanzabari Too embarrassed to answer the question? That's fine.
It's just a comment bro, relax.
@@DanielZealyou that butt hurt from a joke my man
@@Zanzabari I get it; you think that was a joke. You've insisted on this twice for some reason.
Maybe if you insist a third time someone will actually believe you?
Put it on switch duh easy win
or Switch 2.
Need to get FF on Switch 2
Hopefully Nintendo's next console
isn't 10 years old day one
keep makign it a playstation exulsive itll work out eventuly lol