One point of yours that is countered pretty hard by the new movie is vegeta can't win before that point. Should this saga be before that point, you have your answer
I honestly believe the reason why it feels so dragged out is because they're going with monthly release for fight length and pace created for the weekly one. If this battle was going equally long with less pages but weekly it would definitely feel less dragged out. The creator's problem is that he doesn't seem to know that monthly manga must go with completely different pace due to rarer release of content for readers.
Yeah imho the DBS Manga arcs so far would have far better pacing when converted to a weekly anime. But in contrast, like the olden days, any anime team would need a very sufficent gap between the Manga and Anime to succeed with the Manga being monthly versus weekly.
@@Alovon In my opinion they should make potential future Super anime seasonal (next season should be Moro Saga, then break and once it's finished, next season - Granolah Saga and just keep waiting until a Saga ends before adapting it as next season)
A big part of the problem to me is, I expected this clash to be the first fight of a story arc, not that one fight on one planet between four people would be the majority of the ENTIRE arc.
I just finished the chapter and while it was entertaining watching Goku use Ultra Instinct his own way, I felt somewhat disappointed. 1. I think it is safe to say that Granolah is no longer the main character of this Arc 2. It actually hurt me on an emotional level to see Vegeta getting snubbed out of a win: ultra ego seems like an awesome technique, especially for him, but he always manages to lose before it can truly shine 3. I think it's safe to say that Gas is at his limit: this fight has one, maybe two chapters left at this point
Vegeta always steals defeat from the jaws of victory, its getting beyond old now, might as well just have him on the sidelines like the human characters at this point it'd be equally as useful.
@@KaiserMattTygore927 you want to know the most offensive part of what you just said: it's the fact that everything out of your mouth is 100% true, and I hate it
This arc really puts the "Drag on" in Dragon Ball. This chapter just boiled down to: Goku gets a new power, then Gas gets a new power. Only interesting thing was the mention of Freeza's name, other than that it's the same old same old.
@@alphawolf7417 because Freeza is a different character than who we normally get and he's been going through his own character development. Or do you just want more "Goku and Vegeta fight new threat, Vegeta looks like he might get his moment to shine, then Vegeta gets stomped and Goku wins the day?"
@@illithidlore no I'd like new villains and antagonists who actually feel interesting and give characters besides Goku actual time to shine. Right now Frieza only exists for Goku and even then it feels so unnecessary. This whole Frienemy thing they got now feels unnatural to how they were on Namek. And Frieza himself feels less and less like the sadistic monster he used to be....which was his defining trait. Plus reviving him like the idiots they are Goku and co basically just let the guy cause evil...it makes no sense.
@@alphawolf7417 oof, I mean, Freeza was also the last interesting villain in DB...unless you count Beerus. Freeza has changed over time as he's gone through a lot and it's reasonable for him to see some changes. Goku didn't have an option with reviving Freeza, it was that or recruit Yamcha. Goku has also never been much of a super hero type. He fights evil when it gets in his way or threatens his friends or the world, but he doesn't seek evil out.
I feel like one of the main roots of problems with current battle is that Gas hasn't been properly developed as a villain. We had this entire flashback with Bardock which in theory should do the work but I don't feel like it has presented Gas as an interesting character or established his personal connection/conflict with Goku in the present through Bardock well enough. Shame because I feel like his design, powers and these transformations are very cool.
@@Akoom Has he? Whis was a literal god that offered to train him. Sure Vegeta's pride is so large that the idea of even having a master rankles with him, but Whis never forces him to do things he doesn't want and even with Beerus, Beerus mentions that pride is Vegeta's flaw and we only sort of have him come to terms with it.
My thoughts on this chapter: 1) Vegeta's new power is unbounded in the sense of his ki output, but what Vegeta is discovering is that his physical body still has its limits. He can't simply take unlimited punishment, he has to pace himself a little more with the damage he allows himself to take. 2) Goku making Ultra Instinct his own and returning it to the dark hair variant so that he can fight with his passion is a HUGE WIN for his character design and philosophy. I always felt that MUI didn't quite suit him, and I appreciate the acknowledgement of that in the manga. All in all, I would agree though that this manga is dragging on too much. Personally I think its the monthly release that is the problem, as the momentum feels too staggered. It sucks to wait a whole month only to get marginal developments in the story. I guarantee we would all enjoy this story more if it maintained its momentum and built less anticipation between long waits to read.
Completely agree with you. MUI looks awesome imo, but Goku has always been defined by his passion for fighting, and MUI does not fit that. Ultra Ego was a great design and narrative fit for Vegeta, so hopefully they find a way for UI to work for Goku. I'm also in agreement with the release schedule. DB Super would be much better served as a weekly, or even bi-weekly issue.
agreed 100%, especially on the vegeta part. i figured that the aura was indicating that his form is incomplete (duh, he just unlocked it against granolah!) compare it to the SSB and SSBE auras and you'll see what i mean. but i digress. i think that vegeta's complete UE utilization will rely on forcing his ego into the fight, "i am vegeta, prince of the saiyans/destruction" kinda deal, he's always had the front of being the strongest, now with this technique he should be able to push his body not to take damage, but to greater heights through his own mentality. we can see this clearly in the way beerus fights in the manga... he gets absolutely livid when someone lands a hit on him, the latest being Vegeta of course. in this way, his ability to last longer and take more damage than normal would be dragged out throughout the fight while he dominates his opponent through sheer will. when you think about the japanese names for the techniques, and forgive me for my bad translation, i'm not that very good,: Migatte no Gokui (Mastery of Self-movement/Secret of Selfishness) and Wagamama no Gokui (Secret of Self-indulgence/Mastery of Self Movement). there's a double entendre in their names which makes them essentially have the same meaning in one way of reading, while also having their own specific meaning. Goku's form is about being selfish, as in self-preservation, meanwhile vegeta's selfishness or self-indulgence is basically ego and sheer willpower. in a sense, Goku is supposed to be an unbreakable defense while vegeta is an unstoppable offense. Goku's goal is clear now, while vegeta's is a bit hard to decipher... i think what beerus said about "recreating yourself" through destruction, is the way to go; he has to be able to combine his spirit control techniques with it in order to neutralize the damage he receives and turn it into power or strength, instead of actually being hurt. this way he can become truly unstoppable
Great points. I think point 2 also sets him up for his fight with Uub so he can be going all out while looking similar to base form as it appeared in the manga (although most will say he wasn’t going all out in the 28th bodukai, but he seemed shocked Uub practically broke his arm).
The main problem is I just don't care about the heaters. I kind of cared about granola and was ok with them being part of that. I was hoping they were going to go on to fight frieza while granola was dealing with the saiyans. I think having those two simultaneous storylines going at the same time would've been way more interesting. And any time frieza is on the page is always a win for me personally.
Ultra ego is literally becoming the form where vegeta gets his ass beat and when he can fight back or win he’s already been beating to much to capitalize on it
That just means Vegeta needs to build up his toughness. The form allows him to become stronger the more he gets beat up, but his body can only take so much punishment. The solution seems obvious, so hopefully Vegeta will figure out that he needs to either become more able to take a beating or be less reliant on that aspect of the Ultra Ego form.
Yes I agree, the pacing is really holding this arc back big time. I would say since Chapter 80 the pacing has been real poor and we as fans don't have a strong enough reason to care about Gas.
I think i like this Approach. Keep Blue-UI for long dragged out battles that dont need the absolute strength or UI precision [starting of arcs]. UI Sign for when Goku isnt calm but needs more power and better precision of UI [like here] MUI for when hes calm, and ready to end a fight fast and with absolute power and precision. Three different peak power options for Goku for 3 kinds of fights.
Im hoping that goku continues using omen instead of pui, then it can truly be HIS own ultra instinct. As for vegeta i think its time we have two baddies that both goku and vegeta can face and defeat on their own
Since omen resembles his base then goku can fully transform into “super Saiyan ultra instinct” and as for vegeta he can evolve E the form like blue evolution
Either we get an ark where Vegeta masters the destructive energy and there’s a possible dilemma on whether or not Vegeta will actually try to become a god of destruction, or ultra ego will have been a complete waste of time.
I *LOVED* Elec in this chapter, because I feel like Elec is what is making this Chapter, or this Arc, because he is The Man, The Main Man that is the one in the center of everything.
man at this point the best thing they could do with goku is take him off world.. an have him explore an journey across the cosmos looking for fighter that he can challenge an or train to push him to his out most limits! maybe have him go train & spar with jiren the grey over in universe 10 Have Piccolo Go journeying for different grandmasters & martial artists in deep space he can learn an gather new skills from Have vegeta since he feels bad about his past deeds he can make it his life goal to atone by him & his brother an broly maybe building or doing what the universe 6 saiyan have done a planetary defense force..where they help planets in need all over the galaxy or galaxies in this universe and or different universes! an he can have rematches on the way..maybe even met the universe 6 saiyans!!
Toyo and Tori forget that this is a monthly manga, you can't have extended 4 chapter fight scenes (decent, sometimes creative ones to be fair) while sprinkling a little tiny bit of story powder here and there. Honestly, if we had an ongoing anime with it, this might not be too bad.. but we don't. They need to truncate some of these battles in service of more story events.
What annoys me a little bit is this back and forth with the battles, forms and character power ups. It felt like we got the end of the story with Vegeta vs Granolah aaaannnd... Gas comes in. Now Goku, Vegeta and Granolah fight gas aaaaannnd... pause. Flashback to Bardock. Back to the present. They fight all again aaaannnd... another pause. Another Flashback. Bardock fights Gas. Back to the present. Now Goku and Vegeta fight Gas aaaannnd... a few months later we probably come back with Granolah fighting Gas again. This feels like a never ending climax! Get to the point, god damn it!
Honestly disappointed from Vegeta's display here. When I saw the spoiler of him being layed out on the ground but still conscious I held onto the hope that he'd get back up and truly terrify gas by showing him just how much of a monster he's become with ultra ego, which to his credit he did do but then proceeded to pass out before landing a hit and had to be saved my Goku and got left out for the rest of the chapter. If he atleast got a good amount of clean hits in I would be satisfied but right now he's nothing more than a glorified sponge soaking in the damage but hardly getting to dish it back
I see your point with Ultra Ego, but again, Vegeta has barely any experience with the power except with Granolah. It's obvious that "I can never tire out." is just Vegeta's ego taking charge over the body. He doesn't have a handle on UE like Goku does on UI.
@@MasakoX True, but Ultra Ego's purpose right now is to be a tank. As I can see, Vegeta has the equivilent of UI Sign, he needs to master it like Goku did.
I feel disgusted and outraged from toriyama at this point. He's became a clown of himself. That pointless bs about the yardrat mastering of spirit, that god of destruction training, all to be thrown away in three pages each time from every mister no-one he just decides to come up with, thus completely nullifying the whole exploratory potential of the 2nd hero of the story, over and over and over and over and over again. He's literally spitting on the love and the goodwill the fans have shown till now.
My initial take was that ultra ego was like the incredible hulk, where the more he goes the harder he gets, I'm not quite sure what's going on with it now.
@@namesurname1197 Yeah, he gets stronger with every bit of damage but he still has a physical body, even someone like Vegeta hits the limit eventually.
I feel we'll see Granolah get back into the fight by having used his super sniper powers to make his own version of Ultra Egostinct, but won't get the win because while Goku's tried hitting Gas really hard and hitting him really really hard, he hasn't yet tried hitting him really really really hard.
This is chapter is alright. Pretty bum that Vegeta get K.O. and Goku using UI Omen to take Gas which is it weird Mastered variation should be much stronger 🤔
Goku swapped back to UI Omen because he can channel his stronger emotions better. Basically the fact it's the gateway to the body moving on its own and Goku's own consciousness is why I think he becomes slightly more powerful than Gas compared to when he was using Ultra Instinct itself (much more rigid of a transformation).
@@mo.011 you really think Goku was calm when he was fighting Jiren and screaming his head off? The whole point of Goku being a good ui user is he could calm himself instantly to use mui. The writing is just horrible, it's almost like they have alzheimer's.
the montly wait is what is affecting the rhythm, but the fight looks good vegeta ultra ego reminds me of a berserker barbarian, to bad it doesn't last long. and goku is embracing more and more his saiyan side, but if he keeps using the imperfect UI is gona punish his body like that time against jiren, so he has little time. and gas givin up on his life for more power also is givin him little time so i hope the battle ends in the next chapter, becouse it's starting to strech
My main rant about these chapters is how they go from "Ow this is Granolah arc can't you see? he's fighting gas even though he is outmatched" To "Monkey strong. Monke-y punches and if its not work PUNCH HARDER" Edit: Okey the psicological warfare about bardock and gas is interesting and all but at this point i'm just hoping for a conclusion, wathever it may or not be predictable or not
0:44 That's not fair Masako! The woman form the commercial should not be included in the purchase, but you got the woman from the commercial included in your purchase...
I imagined a way more narrative driven arc, because it started this way. All these new characters with a rich backstory and some quite interesting motivations and even some genius trickery. Quite the tasty start. After this introduction our story so far: Goku and Vegeta travel to another planet and fight fight fight and fight fight fight. Enemy defeated, next fight fight fight. Let's introduce new transformations and fight fight fight. Everyone gets stronger, fight fight fight. Get on with it! How does this story continue? Will anything matter anyway? The android from the start? What about Frieza? Heaters, doing anything? I feel like the first half of this arc was completely forgotten. And I don't understand Goku's new "mode" at all. Yeah okay, now he punches not just hard, but really hard. And he found this out in mere minutes. Really tired of this arc.
It's not a new mode, it's ultra instinct omen, it's one level below ultra instinct, one that works at max power without him being calm. Basically he's more powerful at max output in mastered omen than he is in not-yet-masteted ultra instinct. But you're right about everything else.
This saga is really dragging and people multiple chapters ago were saying we were close to an end smh. I also find it hilarious how the creators behind the manga made statements during interviews about how happy they were of vegeta and goku were finally equal in power when vegeta used ultra ego but now goku got massively more powerful to the point he can easily beat up gas before he sacrifices his life force lol. This arc could've been so much better but at this point I think people are gonna view the granolah arc as one of the worst arcs in super or at least worse than the moro arc.
Hence why I sped through the chapter haha. Like I said, you can cut out the entire Bardock/Gas battle and have it pop in and out during this chapter to make it look cool, where Bardock and Goku mirror techniques or attacks.
@@Axel_Kasai I know I'm just pointing out how they're no longer equal when it hasn't been that long since the creators express their joy of vegeta supposedly being an equal to go when using ultra ego
Masako is reaching how ive felt about this saga: dragging on and re using classic bad tropes like Vegeta starting out good, only to screw up and get K.O.ed so Goku can take over . Gas being a tool to his brother wasnt surprising, although it was nice to see Goku fight crafty and clever instead of his usual methods
This chapter was fine but it really shows the problem of a monthly release... nothing really happened and now we have to wait another month for something to happen and it's really dragging whatever plot there was. I'm fine with cool fights since it's Dragon Ball main appeal but this arc is starting to feel really long.
Goku using UI Omen while having some control despite his emotions clouding his head, and psyching out Gas by making him reminded of Bardock to let his guard down, I really liked. Still goes back to how martial arts started since DBZ, technique and use of trying to outsmart and psyche out your opponent despite the power gap.
Yeah, the weakness of Ultra Ego is clear as day: the damage you take may be fuel, but it's still damage. Ultra Ego is tied down by Vegeta's own stamina. It's not that Vegeta isn't supposed to be tired, it's that what he SAID. It's just a bluff, a brag... It's his ego talking. Ultra Ego is indeed an answer to Ultra Instinct, but the latter has the advantage of dodging attacks. It's bound to extreme levels of concentration and calmness to actually dish out the best dodge and offense; Ultra ego, on the other hand, gives only raw power, no real effort in concentration that makes it less effective if not reached, but rather the ability to take hits. As for Gas... I think we're reaching the point where the price to pay for the wish is starting to come to light. By this point I can tell that Gas is dishing out all he has in an all-out clash, not caring what happens to him afterward. The aging may either be that or his time drawing near because of the wish. I can also tell that the resolution of the crisis will come by Gas having the upper hand but losing his will to fight once Elec's intentions will be revealed to him. Maybe, right before he's going to deal the fatal blow to Goku, his physique will fail him and the downside of the wish will be revealed, showing that, as Goku said to him Earlier, Gas' trust in Elec was misplaced and Elec has no problems to sacrifice him to get his hands on Freeza's empire. I absolutely LOVED Goku coming to the realization that sign suits him best, although... I don't know, it feels off. I think this just means that he needs sign as a stepping stone to reach whatever his own UI version is. Revealing Elec's plans might be the key for Gas' change of heart if it can ever happen. Imagine if we're marching towards a new Tournament of Power: Gas ad Granolah are perfect candidates for a U7 tea,-
By the next chapter, Gas will run out of... gas. I think it's pretty obvious at this point that Gas is using his lifespan to keep powering up. And even if he wins this battle, he will most likely pass away from old age shortly after.
This is why I’ve ultimately given up on Dragonball. They always drag their heels for years only to come to the same conclusion: Goku alone saves everyone.
Joining in the echo chamber here, this is paced like we're gonna see more each week, in that chapters with not a lot of progress seem to be okay by Toyo. But for us, getting "okay now thirty more pages of nothing but action panels" and then that's all we get for a month is...unsatisfying. Especially as Toyotaro seems to have forgotten Granolah entirely. I don't mind the Return of the Saiyan Pride, but not at the expense of everything else. Contrary to what many believe, Dragon Ball is driven by more than just good fights - they're part of it, of course, but not nearly enough to carry the whole thing, and especially when it takes _literally_ half a year for one to go from start to finish.
I liked having Vegeta keep getting back up after each beating, was cheering when Gas was afraid, and was so disappointed when he passed out at the turnaround 😞
Dragon Ball has a serious problem when it comes to Goku's popularity in Japan. I feel like people often forget that he stole Gohan's attempt to take over because of how much the Japanese fanbase complained about him no longer being the main character.
Actually that’s not why it happened at all, the fanbase played a very little, if not, no role at all in Goku coming back. Toriyama simply thought he just wasn’t suited for the role.
@@Axel_Kasai The problem wasn't Luke being replaced, in fact it's been proven ppl don't mind, the problem was how terrible Rey and the movies she was in were written
@@astraldirectrix You can literally make the same argument for Gohan. Fanboys only believe that Gohan "deserved" to be MC because he beat Cell, and even then he wouldn't have pulled it off without Goku and Vegeta's contributions.
Ultra Ego is reliant on getting damage, increasing power, but you still get damage. It’s like a video game ability, get hit lower hp, get ATK boost, but the Hp doesn’t go up
@@MasakoX true. But still I think your right about it Being similar to Super Saiyan 3, instead of Stamina and efficiency, Vegeta doesn’t have the HP to take too many hits from someone on his level and still function with UE
This entire ark has been terrible. At this point the series just needs to end because it’s not gonna get any better. The only decently cool thing here is alter ego and even then it’s already been surpassed so there’s no point of even having it.
I have been complaining about the DBS manga's slow pacing for quite a while and this arc has been really showing that more recently. The fight with gas at this point is just being dragged on for no reason with BS power ups out of nowhere. It's been more than 3 months since we were told that the granola arc was ending soon and we are still waiting for it to end. I think the arc could've finished sooner if they went with a weekly schedule with 18 pages
I'm entirely convinced the monthly schedule thing is a mandatory stipulation from Toriyama that _must_ be adhered to, or he kills the manga. Because he did the DB manga every week for 11 years straight, he must _despise_ the weekly schedule norm. Now that he's older and training an apprentice in Toyotaro, he knows that he can get away with demanding a monthly publication for both their sakes. Even if they write the manga like a weekly publication, to our increasingly palpable frustration.
I am rather rigid in how seriously I take the "Rule of 3", so this chapter has set in stone for me that Ultra Ego is useless. I will never take any future appearance of it seriously again. In fact, if Vegeta ever actually manages to beat someone with it, I'll be just assuming his opponent was small potatoes anyway.
No lie, I completely forgot about Granola (probably spelled his name wrong but who cares...) because the power scaling of 'strongest in the universe' is ridiculous and I lost interest. Not to mention this story has gone on WAY too long. Heck, at least the Moro arc was pretty good for the MOST part and while long it didn't seem to overstay its welcome as badly as this arc. *I could be wrong on which arc is longer but Moro didn't seem to be as long and boring as this one is... Also, I'm SO FREAKING TIRED of each saga post-Tournament of Power either changing Ultra Instinct because it's becoming as ridiculous as I don't know what...
The sagas are not changing ultra instinct, they are just trying to further develope it and explain it more. Although I admit the way they explain it and develop it is not the most ideal, they are trying. Also worth mentioning that I've never seen dragon ball get this complex when it comes to forms or techniques (since UI is a mixture of both a transformation and a technique), so this is something new for the series, thus probably making harder for the writers to develop or explain it
My understanding of what happened this chapter was Goku separating the omen transformation and UI technique, which was one of Whis's goals for Goku. Vegeta even comments that what Goku was using wasn't really ultra instinct.
@@Catch93Prod I wouldn't say that was one of whis' goals. Whis wanted Goku to first be able to use the properties of UI in his other forms and wanted him to use the silver hair UI as a trumph card which gave him all of the properties at their max. He didn't want him to get rid of the properties of UI. (That was the entire focus of their training ever since they mastered god ki) I think he wanted him to use those properties and then add his own touch to it. (His newly discovered Saiyan roots). So Goku is doing something similar to what he did during the moro saga. In the moro saga Goku let his feeling of rage and frustration take over and give him a boost but completely negating everything else, so now he is using those feelings to power him up, but still keeping himself together and using his own fighting style and tactics while using the powers of UI sign.
This chapter: "Mastered Ultra Instinct requires a calm and tranquil heart." Meanwhile back in the Tournament of Power: *Enraged beating up Jiren* Yeah I think I'm just going to ignore the Manga when it comes to canon, I've seen absolutely nothing that I find useful in it.
Only in the ANIME did Goku get a rage power boost while using MUI, granted in the moro ark he got angry for a bit but that just made him lose to moro and get his power absorbed, UI makes sense you just gotta look deep into the story
@@thesmartonesback2650 The wiki also says that Jiren attacked his friends and got a rage boost in the manga as well. So if he really didn't then you should go correct that. In any case, I still just don't find the manga adds anything of value to Dragon Ball and often takes away from the world, even worse than Super already did.
@@Kayem237 I feel like the manga helped expand, since we get to see new worlds and even get to see a shady side to the planet selling business Frieza had. We also get more story and lore involving that Buu looking supreme Kai which is cool.
@@Kayem237 the manga is just overall better then the anime but it does has it's flaws but it does add to the canon, exactly like the anime does but better, and more since the manga is still giving more chapters.
Not the best chapter of this arc, but the choreography is still very entertaining. I think I agree with a fellow comment saying that the pacing is almost treating itself like it's a weekly series. I'm not that impatient about getting to the end, so I've been jiving with the pacing so far- but yes, this one felt like it dragged. To me it was still solid due to the choreography and creative techniques, a 5/10 chapter(they better give a better explanation to Goku's new ability, my guess is that it's like a Kaioken but with rampant emotions that rapidly drain away your energy- sorta like 'Ren' from Hunter x Hunter). But still, I think the saga needs to end in the next 2 chapters, maybe 3, if it goes over that then it enters the territory of truly bad pace.
I kinda hope they go a little rational in the next part, make it that Gas is stronger yes, but because of his sudden aging he's become slower and clumsier
Here’s my 50 tin foil hat cents. Toyotaro and Toriyama are stalling. I bet they want the next arc to start either as a tie into Dragon Ball SuperHero and or instead of with Broly where it happened off screen in the manga, they want to do a manga version of the movie, maybe. This arc shouldve been about to wrap up already. Either that or this power up is a fake out. Either way, this sounds to me 100% editorial meddling. It… it really feels to me this is stalling and this whole thing doesnt wreek of Toyotaro to me either. This is, imho, 100% meddling to stall for the movie
I don't doubt you, I'm certain there's a level of executive meddling at play here that's really screwed with the Granola saga's integrity. I think in January, Akio Iyoku or Victory Uchida mentioned that the next arc should tie into Super Hero _when it was supposed to drop in April,_ so the execs REALLY wanted the Granola saga to wrap up ASAP when it really couldn't, at that point in time. Now that Super Hero has released, they must really want to capitalize on its hype as much as they can, so there's even more incentive to kick the Granola saga to the curb.
The fighting is cool and it's great to see sign again, but I'm just waiting for the twist. Gas is the strongest in the universe, they've said multiple times they can't beat him. And logically, they can't, so unless they just get stronger out of nowhere (which they might), then there has to be a twist. Maybe Granolah comes back in, that'd be nice, maybe gas can't handle all three at once, maybe freeza shows up, maybe Gogeta shows up, he didn't exist when the wish was made he wouldn't count for the wish, maybe fuggin broly shows up. I'm just waiting for the twist.
I feel like this is toyotaros arc and he is mainly the lead writer. Tori just says yes or no to a outline and wants toyo to run an arc and see how the fans react
I don't feel like either of them are good for the franchise anymore. They both suck at writing for their own series and dozens of fans who have made fan manga or what ifs that went a little beyond the story can prove that.
I’m not too into Ultra Ego or even Ultra Instinct to be honest. They’re both described as something more than a basic power boost in their own ways, but both the manga and the anime have trouble actually showing those differences. Ultra Instinct has a few really cool dodges, but at least 50% of the time it’s handled the same way as the first time Goku went Super Saiyan with strong attacks and skilled but not abnormally cool dodges, and you go over Ultra Ego in this video so I won’t repeat that.
I think the main point of UI being different is to prevent transformation fatigue. UI gives the writers an excuse to expand its lifespan as a technique to continually master.
@@TonyMishima92 I understand the point of UI being different, I’m just saying that in practice it usually isn’t used differently enough to accomplish the goal of avoiding transformation fatigue.
@@joebobjon1127 Have you seen Goku access a new form since the ToP? If not, then there is no "opinion" on the matter. UI has been kept relevant all this time with its explanation.
Ultra ego is just not a good form, at least not against stronger opponents. Any form that has you taking damage to get stronger instead of absorbing it to get stronger is not good against stronger opponents. What's the point of having a lot of power if you can't use it properly because your body is broken by the time you get strong?
fr bro they could have made vegeta do actual good damage before passing out. it seemed like goku did more damage in that last bit than vegeta did the whole time.
Vegeta: Ha Ha Ha! I have mastered a technique which makes me more powerful the more I get punched. What are you going to do now weakling?! Gas: Punch you harder. Vegeta: Wait. Wha-aaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhh! *crashes into mountain*
There is actually one reason alone why this whole arc has been the worst in Super, and that's because the 2 antagonists don't feel powerful because we know they wished for it. It just doesn't feel the same.
It would've been fine if the other's got something to do so the fighting is more spaced out and even. That way it wouldn't feel as dragged out because you have a distraction from it with side characters. Remember when they were useful?
Am I the only one who feels this is all just filler to extend the arc until the movie comes out, like how they had to extend the fight with Frieza on namek while they were waiting for the manga to catch up, seriously, it feels like this should have ended a few chapters ago and yet here we are, hhhh
I agree with you. To me, this fluff was added to keep the arc going long enough for Super Hero to come out, otherwise a new saga could've stolen some thunder.
@@MasakoX I guarantee you, once the anime is back this saga is gonna be the one with the most changes, and that's if Toyotaro doesn't do it himself (which he probably should if he wants to save face)
I see ultra ego as a balancing act, the more vegeta gets hurt the stronger he becomes alright that checks out but the thing about that is. One can't really take damage without eventually tiring out so it's less about he never gets tired and more so about he has to find this perfect line with taking damage and not. Vegeta has clearly not found that line yet which makes sense he's only used it 3 times and might not fully understand how it works.
its because he doesn't care about this franchise anymore. he finally got bullied into coming back and doing it for some extra cash before he croaks like we all will.
The Granolah saga did start out good and interesting at first, but sadly like the Moro saga this arc is quickly getting worser and worser by later chapter. It's as if the third and final act weren't fully planned out at all.
Well, Toriyama is notorious for not planning things out ahead of time. Also since he's a recluse, I guess Toyotaro doesn't get the chapter layout from Toriyama until close to publication date.
@@MasakoX tbf, I have my doubts how much of that was Toriyama and how much was the rest of the movie team refining his draft from the position of a long time fan.
@@marcopetrilli8594 It's not a villain at all. It's the fallout of the villain's incompetence. Sure, having Gohan awaken a new power against a version of Cell was derivative, but with everything else referencing Red Ribbon and Gero, not having them try to recreate his greatest weapon at all would have made much less sense. And they distinctly chose to not give it a personality and changed quite a lot about it. Not the best choice ever, but I can easily let it slide because everything else around it was just so fun.
Thanks for watching! Use my code MASAKO to get $5 off your delicious, healthy Magic Spoon cereal by clicking this link: magicspoon.thld.co/masako_0622
Gas is just running out of Gas.
What If MasakoX Was In Dragon Ball
That was spicy!
Your wife's add... oh my I'm getting more magic spoon cereal
One point of yours that is countered pretty hard by the new movie is vegeta can't win before that point. Should this saga be before that point, you have your answer
I honestly believe the reason why it feels so dragged out is because they're going with monthly release for fight length and pace created for the weekly one. If this battle was going equally long with less pages but weekly it would definitely feel less dragged out. The creator's problem is that he doesn't seem to know that monthly manga must go with completely different pace due to rarer release of content for readers.
Agreed.
Yeah imho the DBS Manga arcs so far would have far better pacing when converted to a weekly anime.
But in contrast, like the olden days, any anime team would need a very sufficent gap between the Manga and Anime to succeed with the Manga being monthly versus weekly.
@@Alovon In my opinion they should make potential future Super anime seasonal (next season should be Moro Saga, then break and once it's finished, next season - Granolah Saga and just keep waiting until a Saga ends before adapting it as next season)
A big part of the problem to me is, I expected this clash to be the first fight of a story arc, not that one fight on one planet between four people would be the majority of the ENTIRE arc.
@@Faction.Paradox you just hit the nail on the head about this entire "story" arc.
I just finished the chapter and while it was entertaining watching Goku use Ultra Instinct his own way, I felt somewhat disappointed.
1. I think it is safe to say that Granolah is no longer the main character of this Arc
2. It actually hurt me on an emotional level to see Vegeta getting snubbed out of a win: ultra ego seems like an awesome technique, especially for him, but he always manages to lose before it can truly shine
3. I think it's safe to say that Gas is at his limit: this fight has one, maybe two chapters left at this point
Vegeta always steals defeat from the jaws of victory, its getting beyond old now, might as well just have him on the sidelines like the human characters at this point it'd be equally as useful.
@@KaiserMattTygore927 you want to know the most offensive part of what you just said: it's the fact that everything out of your mouth is 100% true, and I hate it
@@natoriousthehopeful2786 dam bro vegeta is a stepping stoll for goku to shine everytime man
Ultra ego is lame as gas said, it's just getting your ass beat until you pass out, and it happened TWICE!
@@bouboubou511 which is both weird and disappointing
This arc really puts the "Drag on" in Dragon Ball.
This chapter just boiled down to: Goku gets a new power, then Gas gets a new power.
Only interesting thing was the mention of Freeza's name, other than that it's the same old same old.
What new power Goku get?? All I see is a new&improved and more proficient UI Omen.
How is mentioning Freeza interesting? The series keeps shoving him in with nothing special. He's just a marketing tool.
@@alphawolf7417 because Freeza is a different character than who we normally get and he's been going through his own character development.
Or do you just want more "Goku and Vegeta fight new threat, Vegeta looks like he might get his moment to shine, then Vegeta gets stomped and Goku wins the day?"
@@illithidlore no I'd like new villains and antagonists who actually feel interesting and give characters besides Goku actual time to shine. Right now Frieza only exists for Goku and even then it feels so unnecessary. This whole Frienemy thing they got now feels unnatural to how they were on Namek. And Frieza himself feels less and less like the sadistic monster he used to be....which was his defining trait. Plus reviving him like the idiots they are Goku and co basically just let the guy cause evil...it makes no sense.
@@alphawolf7417 oof, I mean, Freeza was also the last interesting villain in DB...unless you count Beerus. Freeza has changed over time as he's gone through a lot and it's reasonable for him to see some changes.
Goku didn't have an option with reviving Freeza, it was that or recruit Yamcha. Goku has also never been much of a super hero type. He fights evil when it gets in his way or threatens his friends or the world, but he doesn't seek evil out.
I feel like one of the main roots of problems with current battle is that Gas hasn't been properly developed as a villain. We had this entire flashback with Bardock which in theory should do the work but I don't feel like it has presented Gas as an interesting character or established his personal connection/conflict with Goku in the present through Bardock well enough. Shame because I feel like his design, powers and these transformations are very cool.
It's because he's just a pawn of Elec, the primary villain.
He could be further explored in the anime, whenever it comes out.
Ya we should have gotten more conversation.
He's kind of a glorified minion, he reminds me of that Saganbo guy from the previous saga.
@@solidsolo9258 Yeah Elec draws you in and you want to know more, gas is just a obstacle with horns
Granolah sacrificed his longevity for power, while Gas sacrificed his Pride for power. I can't imagine Vegeta doing that.
He’s done it with whis lol
Gas sacrificed his longevity as well. That's why he looks old af at the end
@@SttudDioPierrot yeah and Elec mentions this is the last fight gas ever fights.
@@Akoom Has he? Whis was a literal god that offered to train him. Sure Vegeta's pride is so large that the idea of even having a master rankles with him, but Whis never forces him to do things he doesn't want and even with Beerus, Beerus mentions that pride is Vegeta's flaw and we only sort of have him come to terms with it.
What pride? He never had one. Peeing on his pants jeez
3:31 Elec: "What are you?"
Gas: "An Idiot Sandwich!"
My thoughts on this chapter: 1) Vegeta's new power is unbounded in the sense of his ki output, but what Vegeta is discovering is that his physical body still has its limits. He can't simply take unlimited punishment, he has to pace himself a little more with the damage he allows himself to take. 2) Goku making Ultra Instinct his own and returning it to the dark hair variant so that he can fight with his passion is a HUGE WIN for his character design and philosophy. I always felt that MUI didn't quite suit him, and I appreciate the acknowledgement of that in the manga.
All in all, I would agree though that this manga is dragging on too much. Personally I think its the monthly release that is the problem, as the momentum feels too staggered. It sucks to wait a whole month only to get marginal developments in the story. I guarantee we would all enjoy this story more if it maintained its momentum and built less anticipation between long waits to read.
Completely agree with you. MUI looks awesome imo, but Goku has always been defined by his passion for fighting, and MUI does not fit that. Ultra Ego was a great design and narrative fit for Vegeta, so hopefully they find a way for UI to work for Goku.
I'm also in agreement with the release schedule. DB Super would be much better served as a weekly, or even bi-weekly issue.
agreed 100%, especially on the vegeta part. i figured that the aura was indicating that his form is incomplete (duh, he just unlocked it against granolah!) compare it to the SSB and SSBE auras and you'll see what i mean. but i digress. i think that vegeta's complete UE utilization will rely on forcing his ego into the fight, "i am vegeta, prince of the saiyans/destruction" kinda deal, he's always had the front of being the strongest, now with this technique he should be able to push his body not to take damage, but to greater heights through his own mentality. we can see this clearly in the way beerus fights in the manga... he gets absolutely livid when someone lands a hit on him, the latest being Vegeta of course. in this way, his ability to last longer and take more damage than normal would be dragged out throughout the fight while he dominates his opponent through sheer will.
when you think about the japanese names for the techniques, and forgive me for my bad translation, i'm not that very good,: Migatte no Gokui (Mastery of Self-movement/Secret of Selfishness) and Wagamama no Gokui (Secret of Self-indulgence/Mastery of Self Movement). there's a double entendre in their names which makes them essentially have the same meaning in one way of reading, while also having their own specific meaning. Goku's form is about being selfish, as in self-preservation, meanwhile vegeta's selfishness or self-indulgence is basically ego and sheer willpower. in a sense, Goku is supposed to be an unbreakable defense while vegeta is an unstoppable offense. Goku's goal is clear now, while vegeta's is a bit hard to decipher... i think what beerus said about "recreating yourself" through destruction, is the way to go; he has to be able to combine his spirit control techniques with it in order to neutralize the damage he receives and turn it into power or strength, instead of actually being hurt. this way he can become truly unstoppable
Great points. I think point 2 also sets him up for his fight with Uub so he can be going all out while looking similar to base form as it appeared in the manga (although most will say he wasn’t going all out in the 28th bodukai, but he seemed shocked Uub practically broke his arm).
better put into words than masakox
The forced teleporting on Gas’ end and the barriers/telekinesis on Goku’s were my favorite parts of the chapter
The main problem is I just don't care about the heaters. I kind of cared about granola and was ok with them being part of that. I was hoping they were going to go on to fight frieza while granola was dealing with the saiyans. I think having those two simultaneous storylines going at the same time would've been way more interesting. And any time frieza is on the page is always a win for me personally.
Yeah I agree I think that would have been more interesting if that happened, having Frieza involved would have made the arc more engaging
Ultra ego is literally becoming the form where vegeta gets his ass beat and when he can fight back or win he’s already been beating to much to capitalize on it
That just means Vegeta needs to build up his toughness. The form allows him to become stronger the more he gets beat up, but his body can only take so much punishment. The solution seems obvious, so hopefully Vegeta will figure out that he needs to either become more able to take a beating or be less reliant on that aspect of the Ultra Ego form.
@@jackmanleblanc2518 basically, make ki shield stronger, take hit, get a zenkai kaioken x10000
Yes I agree, the pacing is really holding this arc back big time. I would say since Chapter 80 the pacing has been real poor and we as fans don't have a strong enough reason to care about Gas.
Exactly
Fax
I think i like this Approach.
Keep Blue-UI for long dragged out battles that dont need the absolute strength or UI precision [starting of arcs].
UI Sign for when Goku isnt calm but needs more power and better precision of UI [like here]
MUI for when hes calm, and ready to end a fight fast and with absolute power and precision.
Three different peak power options for Goku for 3 kinds of fights.
I really think this is what Toriyama/Toyotaro are going for here, and I'm totally on board with it too!
If only
Im hoping that goku continues using omen instead of pui, then it can truly be HIS own ultra instinct. As for vegeta i think its time we have two baddies that both goku and vegeta can face and defeat on their own
I think it would have been good if Vegeta beat Granolah, Goku beat Gas, then Granolah kills Elec.
Since omen resembles his base then goku can fully transform into “super Saiyan ultra instinct” and as for vegeta he can evolve E the form like blue evolution
Either we get an ark where Vegeta masters the destructive energy and there’s a possible dilemma on whether or not Vegeta will actually try to become a god of destruction, or ultra ego will have been a complete waste of time.
I kinda thought that Gas looked like Moro when he transformed lmao
Also Goku using the force (via force field) on Vegeta made me laugh 😂
Agreed. Hence why it didn't have as much impact.
@@MasakoX What If MasakoX Was In Dragon Ball
Yoda: hmm strong in the force you are
@@mrfazaz572 It would be better, the end.
@@forgerofsouls9126 How?
I *LOVED* Elec in this chapter, because I feel like Elec is what is making this Chapter, or this Arc, because he is The Man, The Main Man that is the one in the center of everything.
Ok but like could you imagine how op ultra ego vegeta would be in otherworld
Goku really said "my ultra instinct changes on the day and depending how I feel" 😭😭😭
Seriously. This writing really bad. I just…I just don’t get it. I mean Super Hero sounds really good yet the main series is just….frustrating…
man at this point the best thing they could do with goku is take him off world.. an have him explore an journey across the cosmos looking for fighter that he can challenge an or train to push him to his out most limits! maybe have him go train & spar with jiren the grey over in universe 10
Have Piccolo Go journeying for different grandmasters & martial artists in deep space he can learn an gather new skills from
Have vegeta since he feels bad about his past deeds he can make it his life goal to atone by him & his brother an broly maybe building or doing what the universe 6 saiyan have done a planetary defense force..where they help planets in need all over the galaxy or galaxies in this universe and or different universes! an he can have rematches on the way..maybe even met the universe 6 saiyans!!
Exactly! Makes no sense lol
And let's not forget the great moment of how do we beat this powerful for!? Fight like a sayain! Ok so so keep hitting hard and fast got it!
Toyo and Tori forget that this is a monthly manga, you can't have extended 4 chapter fight scenes (decent, sometimes creative ones to be fair) while sprinkling a little tiny bit of story powder here and there.
Honestly, if we had an ongoing anime with it, this might not be too bad.. but we don't. They need to truncate some of these battles in service of more story events.
The thing is that this arc has had plenty of chapters just dedicated to story.
@@TonyMishima92 but an ENTIRE volume is just gonna be fights with barely any story
At this point I am just adamantly certain that Toriyama and Tori simply refuse to give Vegeta to get a win.
Sure not a win but at least an honest fight
he's done better than Goku this entire arc, that's something
@@jacobgraemoor5778 yeah the other one also; and for what result? only to be surclassed in five minutes
3:28 MasakoX: "Gas is no longer horny."
George Takei: "Ooooh mmmy!"
MasakoX: "STOP IT!"
*DevilArtemis Zarbon:* OOOOOOHHHOH!
What annoys me a little bit is this back and forth with the battles, forms and character power ups. It felt like we got the end of the story with Vegeta vs Granolah aaaannnd... Gas comes in. Now Goku, Vegeta and Granolah fight gas aaaaannnd... pause. Flashback to Bardock. Back to the present. They fight all again aaaannnd... another pause. Another Flashback. Bardock fights Gas. Back to the present. Now Goku and Vegeta fight Gas aaaannnd... a few months later we probably come back with Granolah fighting Gas again. This feels like a never ending climax! Get to the point, god damn it!
Honestly disappointed from Vegeta's display here. When I saw the spoiler of him being layed out on the ground but still conscious I held onto the hope that he'd get back up and truly terrify gas by showing him just how much of a monster he's become with ultra ego, which to his credit he did do but then proceeded to pass out before landing a hit and had to be saved my Goku and got left out for the rest of the chapter. If he atleast got a good amount of clean hits in I would be satisfied but right now he's nothing more than a glorified sponge soaking in the damage but hardly getting to dish it back
I see your point with Ultra Ego, but again, Vegeta has barely any experience with the power except with Granolah. It's obvious that "I can never tire out." is just Vegeta's ego taking charge over the body. He doesn't have a handle on UE like Goku does on UI.
I think it wouldn't have been so galling had he done more damage to Gas.
@@MasakoX True, but Ultra Ego's purpose right now is to be a tank. As I can see, Vegeta has the equivilent of UI Sign, he needs to master it like Goku did.
@@MasakoX What If MasakoX Was In Dragon Ball
After this chapter, it makes me think Vegeta might be better off using SSBE until he finds a better way to use Ultra Ego.
I feel disgusted and outraged from toriyama at this point. He's became a clown of himself. That pointless bs about the yardrat mastering of spirit, that god of destruction training, all to be thrown away in three pages each time from every mister no-one he just decides to come up with, thus completely nullifying the whole exploratory potential of the 2nd hero of the story, over and over and over and over and over again. He's literally spitting on the love and the goodwill the fans have shown till now.
0:15 Gas: "STOMACH PUNCH!"
Vegeta: "I'm gonna whizz red."
No pause.
My initial take was that ultra ego was like the incredible hulk, where the more he goes the harder he gets, I'm not quite sure what's going on with it now.
Giggity
I think the way UE works is "lose hp=attack boost"
@@namesurname1197 Yeah, he gets stronger with every bit of damage but he still has a physical body, even someone like Vegeta hits the limit eventually.
Ayo 😳
I've heard someone say that other people are saying that _Broly_ would benefit from Ultra Ego more than Vegeta. Thing is....they might be right.
I feel we'll see Granolah get back into the fight by having used his super sniper powers to make his own version of Ultra Egostinct, but won't get the win because while Goku's tried hitting Gas really hard and hitting him really really hard, he hasn't yet tried hitting him really really really hard.
This is chapter is alright. Pretty bum that Vegeta get K.O. and Goku using UI Omen to take Gas which is it weird Mastered variation should be much stronger 🤔
Did you read the chapter? He is using UI Sign with his current emotions he said he cant MUI properly because his mind is not calm at the moment
@@mo.011 I read the chapter manga.
To add
Gas was having mental flashbacks of is defeat and just like in real life your own brain 🧠 is the key to success or also failure
Goku swapped back to UI Omen because he can channel his stronger emotions better. Basically the fact it's the gateway to the body moving on its own and Goku's own consciousness is why I think he becomes slightly more powerful than Gas compared to when he was using Ultra Instinct itself (much more rigid of a transformation).
@@mo.011 you really think Goku was calm when he was fighting Jiren and screaming his head off? The whole point of Goku being a good ui user is he could calm himself instantly to use mui. The writing is just horrible, it's almost like they have alzheimer's.
Goku using a mouth blast was probably the biggest surprise for me.
Glad I'm not the only one
Goku's mouth present?
That MAGICSPOON AD😳😳
the montly wait is what is affecting the rhythm, but the fight looks good
vegeta ultra ego reminds me of a berserker barbarian, to bad it doesn't last long.
and goku is embracing more and more his saiyan side, but if he keeps using the imperfect UI is gona punish his body like that time against jiren, so he has little time.
and gas givin up on his life for more power also is givin him little time
so i hope the battle ends in the next chapter, becouse it's starting to strech
My main rant about these chapters is how they go from
"Ow this is Granolah arc can't you see? he's fighting gas even though he is outmatched"
To
"Monkey strong. Monke-y punches and if its not work PUNCH HARDER"
Edit:
Okey the psicological warfare about bardock and gas is interesting and all
but at this point i'm just hoping for a conclusion, wathever it may or not be
predictable or not
0:44 That's not fair Masako! The woman form the commercial should not be included in the purchase, but you got the woman from the commercial included in your purchase...
I imagined a way more narrative driven arc, because it started this way. All these new characters with a rich backstory and some quite interesting motivations and even some genius trickery. Quite the tasty start. After this introduction our story so far: Goku and Vegeta travel to another planet and fight fight fight and fight fight fight. Enemy defeated, next fight fight fight. Let's introduce new transformations and fight fight fight. Everyone gets stronger, fight fight fight. Get on with it! How does this story continue? Will anything matter anyway? The android from the start? What about Frieza? Heaters, doing anything? I feel like the first half of this arc was completely forgotten.
And I don't understand Goku's new "mode" at all. Yeah okay, now he punches not just hard, but really hard. And he found this out in mere minutes. Really tired of this arc.
YOU'RE SPITTIN MAD FACTS RIGHT NOW
It's not a new mode, it's ultra instinct omen, it's one level below ultra instinct, one that works at max power without him being calm.
Basically he's more powerful at max output in mastered omen than he is in not-yet-masteted ultra instinct.
But you're right about everything else.
This saga is really dragging and people multiple chapters ago were saying we were close to an end smh. I also find it hilarious how the creators behind the manga made statements during interviews about how happy they were of vegeta and goku were finally equal in power when vegeta used ultra ego but now goku got massively more powerful to the point he can easily beat up gas before he sacrifices his life force lol. This arc could've been so much better but at this point I think people are gonna view the granolah arc as one of the worst arcs in super or at least worse than the moro arc.
Hence why I sped through the chapter haha.
Like I said, you can cut out the entire Bardock/Gas battle and have it pop in and out during this chapter to make it look cool, where Bardock and Goku mirror techniques or attacks.
Vegeta being equal to goku ≠ vegeta won't be beat up.
Dragon ball is still goku's story :p
@@MasakoX Or have goku find out about bardock in a dedicated arc instead of in the middle of another characters story.
@@Axel_Kasai I know I'm just pointing out how they're no longer equal when it hasn't been that long since the creators express their joy of vegeta supposedly being an equal to go when using ultra ego
Masako is reaching how ive felt about this saga: dragging on and re using classic bad tropes like Vegeta starting out good, only to screw up and get K.O.ed so Goku can take over . Gas being a tool to his brother wasnt surprising, although it was nice to see Goku fight crafty and clever instead of his usual methods
It's the classic Toyotaro cycle.
Damn, Masako...You're lucky to have a wife like that to help you out!!! May you two remain together in peace and harmony for the rest of your days.
This chapter was fine but it really shows the problem of a monthly release... nothing really happened and now we have to wait another month for something to happen and it's really dragging whatever plot there was. I'm fine with cool fights since it's Dragon Ball main appeal but this arc is starting to feel really long.
My love for dragonball is slowly dieing the only thing keeping me going at this point is what ifs
Such a good chapter, love the review keep it up!
Goku using UI Omen while having some control despite his emotions clouding his head, and psyching out Gas by making him reminded of Bardock to let his guard down, I really liked. Still goes back to how martial arts started since DBZ, technique and use of trying to outsmart and psyche out your opponent despite the power gap.
Yeah, the weakness of Ultra Ego is clear as day: the damage you take may be fuel, but it's still damage. Ultra Ego is tied down by Vegeta's own stamina. It's not that Vegeta isn't supposed to be tired, it's that what he SAID. It's just a bluff, a brag... It's his ego talking. Ultra Ego is indeed an answer to Ultra Instinct, but the latter has the advantage of dodging attacks. It's bound to extreme levels of concentration and calmness to actually dish out the best dodge and offense; Ultra ego, on the other hand, gives only raw power, no real effort in concentration that makes it less effective if not reached, but rather the ability to take hits.
As for Gas... I think we're reaching the point where the price to pay for the wish is starting to come to light. By this point I can tell that Gas is dishing out all he has in an all-out clash, not caring what happens to him afterward. The aging may either be that or his time drawing near because of the wish. I can also tell that the resolution of the crisis will come by Gas having the upper hand but losing his will to fight once Elec's intentions will be revealed to him. Maybe, right before he's going to deal the fatal blow to Goku, his physique will fail him and the downside of the wish will be revealed, showing that, as Goku said to him Earlier, Gas' trust in Elec was misplaced and Elec has no problems to sacrifice him to get his hands on Freeza's empire.
I absolutely LOVED Goku coming to the realization that sign suits him best, although... I don't know, it feels off. I think this just means that he needs sign as a stepping stone to reach whatever his own UI version is.
Revealing Elec's plans might be the key for Gas' change of heart if it can ever happen. Imagine if we're marching towards a new Tournament of Power: Gas ad Granolah are perfect candidates for a U7 tea,-
That title is EXACTLY what i was thinking after reading the latest chapter
By the next chapter, Gas will run out of... gas. I think it's pretty obvious at this point that Gas is using his lifespan to keep powering up. And even if he wins this battle, he will most likely pass away from old age shortly after.
Masako, your wife doing the Magic Spoon ad made me feel like I was listening to a monologue from classic “Cowboy Bebop”! She was amazing!
"GET ON WITH IT" Was my exact reaction when I finished this chapter a half hour ago
This is why I’ve ultimately given up on Dragonball. They always drag their heels for years only to come to the same conclusion: Goku alone saves everyone.
@@spoof2062 Yeah, but then Moro was a Goku win too, so that's 4.
Nobody won in the Future Trunks Arc.
Joining in the echo chamber here, this is paced like we're gonna see more each week, in that chapters with not a lot of progress seem to be okay by Toyo. But for us, getting "okay now thirty more pages of nothing but action panels" and then that's all we get for a month is...unsatisfying. Especially as Toyotaro seems to have forgotten Granolah entirely. I don't mind the Return of the Saiyan Pride, but not at the expense of everything else. Contrary to what many believe, Dragon Ball is driven by more than just good fights - they're part of it, of course, but not nearly enough to carry the whole thing, and especially when it takes _literally_ half a year for one to go from start to finish.
I liked having Vegeta keep getting back up after each beating, was cheering when Gas was afraid, and was so disappointed when he passed out at the turnaround 😞
Dragon Ball has a serious problem when it comes to Goku's popularity in Japan. I feel like people often forget that he stole Gohan's attempt to take over because of how much the Japanese fanbase complained about him no longer being the main character.
Actually that’s not why it happened at all, the fanbase played a very little, if not, no role at all in Goku coming back. Toriyama simply thought he just wasn’t suited for the role.
Replacing the most iconic character wouldn't have been the best idea.
Look how people reached to Luke being replaced by Rey Skywalker.
@@Axel_Kasai Gohan deserved to take the lead. Rey didn't; she was a "super-special space wizard" just because.
@@Axel_Kasai The problem wasn't Luke being replaced, in fact it's been proven ppl don't mind, the problem was how terrible Rey and the movies she was in were written
@@astraldirectrix You can literally make the same argument for Gohan. Fanboys only believe that Gohan "deserved" to be MC because he beat Cell, and even then he wouldn't have pulled it off without Goku and Vegeta's contributions.
Ultra Ego is reliant on getting damage, increasing power, but you still get damage. It’s like a video game ability, get hit lower hp, get ATK boost, but the Hp doesn’t go up
Granted, but it should be strong enough to do Gas some damage. He could've taken out one of his horn's and Goku gets the other. Teamwork!
@@MasakoX true. But still I think your right about it Being similar to Super Saiyan 3, instead of Stamina and efficiency, Vegeta doesn’t have the HP to take too many hits from someone on his level and still function with UE
This entire ark has been terrible. At this point the series just needs to end because it’s not gonna get any better. The only decently cool thing here is alter ego and even then it’s already been surpassed so there’s no point of even having it.
I think if you trimmed this last third of the saga by a chunk, you'd have a much better story.
I’m sorry but I’m generally getting tired of this manga, but thank you for brightening my day
I gotta admit, this was one of the most frustrating chapters to date! Trying to stay positive. Oooooh trying to stay positive.
Same.
This arc just never ends
Dragonball super is hot garbage , same old crap .
@@TouchdownTamagotchi since then, they’d have to improve if theres another season of dbs
I have been complaining about the DBS manga's slow pacing for quite a while and this arc has been really showing that more recently. The fight with gas at this point is just being dragged on for no reason with BS power ups out of nowhere. It's been more than 3 months since we were told that the granola arc was ending soon and we are still waiting for it to end.
I think the arc could've finished sooner if they went with a weekly schedule with 18 pages
Bro imagine being a db super and one piece reader. We were told wano was in its climax 6 months ago and it still ain't over
I'm entirely convinced the monthly schedule thing is a mandatory stipulation from Toriyama that _must_ be adhered to, or he kills the manga. Because he did the DB manga every week for 11 years straight, he must _despise_ the weekly schedule norm. Now that he's older and training an apprentice in Toyotaro, he knows that he can get away with demanding a monthly publication for both their sakes. Even if they write the manga like a weekly publication, to our increasingly palpable frustration.
I am rather rigid in how seriously I take the "Rule of 3", so this chapter has set in stone for me that Ultra Ego is useless. I will never take any future appearance of it seriously again. In fact, if Vegeta ever actually manages to beat someone with it, I'll be just assuming his opponent was small potatoes anyway.
No lie, I completely forgot about Granola (probably spelled his name wrong but who cares...) because the power scaling of 'strongest in the universe' is ridiculous and I lost interest.
Not to mention this story has gone on WAY too long. Heck, at least the Moro arc was pretty good for the MOST part and while long it didn't seem to overstay its welcome as badly as this arc.
*I could be wrong on which arc is longer but Moro didn't seem to be as long and boring as this one is...
Also, I'm SO FREAKING TIRED of each saga post-Tournament of Power either changing Ultra Instinct because it's becoming as ridiculous as I don't know what...
Moro arc was 2 years and 1 month long. Granolah arc is only a year and a half long. Also, this arc is more interesting than moro for me.
The sagas are not changing ultra instinct, they are just trying to further develope it and explain it more. Although I admit the way they explain it and develop it is not the most ideal, they are trying.
Also worth mentioning that I've never seen dragon ball get this complex when it comes to forms or techniques (since UI is a mixture of both a transformation and a technique), so this is something new for the series, thus probably making harder for the writers to develop or explain it
My understanding of what happened this chapter was Goku separating the omen transformation and UI technique, which was one of Whis's goals for Goku. Vegeta even comments that what Goku was using wasn't really ultra instinct.
@@Catch93Prod I wouldn't say that was one of whis' goals. Whis wanted Goku to first be able to use the properties of UI in his other forms and wanted him to use the silver hair UI as a trumph card which gave him all of the properties at their max. He didn't want him to get rid of the properties of UI. (That was the entire focus of their training ever since they mastered god ki) I think he wanted him to use those properties and then add his own touch to it. (His newly discovered Saiyan roots). So Goku is doing something similar to what he did during the moro saga. In the moro saga Goku let his feeling of rage and frustration take over and give him a boost but completely negating everything else, so now he is using those feelings to power him up, but still keeping himself together and using his own fighting style and tactics while using the powers of UI sign.
This chapter: "Mastered Ultra Instinct requires a calm and tranquil heart."
Meanwhile back in the Tournament of Power: *Enraged beating up Jiren*
Yeah I think I'm just going to ignore the Manga when it comes to canon, I've seen absolutely nothing that I find useful in it.
Only in the ANIME did Goku get a rage power boost while using MUI, granted in the moro ark he got angry for a bit but that just made him lose to moro and get his power absorbed, UI makes sense you just gotta look deep into the story
@@thesmartonesback2650 The wiki also says that Jiren attacked his friends and got a rage boost in the manga as well. So if he really didn't then you should go correct that.
In any case, I still just don't find the manga adds anything of value to Dragon Ball and often takes away from the world, even worse than Super already did.
@@Kayem237 I feel like the manga helped expand, since we get to see new worlds and even get to see a shady side to the planet selling business Frieza had. We also get more story and lore involving that Buu looking supreme Kai which is cool.
@@Kayem237 the manga is just overall better then the anime but it does has it's flaws but it does add to the canon, exactly like the anime does but better, and more since the manga is still giving more chapters.
Not the best chapter of this arc, but the choreography is still very entertaining. I think I agree with a fellow comment saying that the pacing is almost treating itself like it's a weekly series. I'm not that impatient about getting to the end, so I've been jiving with the pacing so far- but yes, this one felt like it dragged. To me it was still solid due to the choreography and creative techniques, a 5/10 chapter(they better give a better explanation to Goku's new ability, my guess is that it's like a Kaioken but with rampant emotions that rapidly drain away your energy- sorta like 'Ren' from Hunter x Hunter). But still, I think the saga needs to end in the next 2 chapters, maybe 3, if it goes over that then it enters the territory of truly bad pace.
I kinda hope they go a little rational in the next part, make it that Gas is stronger yes, but because of his sudden aging he's become slower and clumsier
3:36 Gas: "This is not even my Final Form!"
Vegeta just needs to get a focus sash from pokemon and he'll be op
I always thought that ui omen looked better than mui so this chapter makes me a little happy.
I feel like ultra instinct is becoming alot like whis's abilities. You can do anything and it doesn't need to make sense.
Haven't they made it clear that Whis is always in UI. That's just the angel's natural state of being.
Hated UI since it became a thing
@@Melly_Wayy why
@Steven Johnson
Ah, so in other words:"It's cool, now shut up."
@@Melly_Wayy Same. It is such a cop out of creativity and techniques
Glad you summed it up quick. This chapter is dragging to me as well
Moro arc keeps looking better & better by comparison lol.
Here’s my 50 tin foil hat cents. Toyotaro and Toriyama are stalling. I bet they want the next arc to start either as a tie into Dragon Ball SuperHero and or instead of with Broly where it happened off screen in the manga, they want to do a manga version of the movie, maybe.
This arc shouldve been about to wrap up already. Either that or this power up is a fake out. Either way, this sounds to me 100% editorial meddling. It… it really feels to me this is stalling and this whole thing doesnt wreek of Toyotaro to me either. This is, imho, 100% meddling to stall for the movie
I don't doubt you, I'm certain there's a level of executive meddling at play here that's really screwed with the Granola saga's integrity. I think in January, Akio Iyoku or Victory Uchida mentioned that the next arc should tie into Super Hero _when it was supposed to drop in April,_ so the execs REALLY wanted the Granola saga to wrap up ASAP when it really couldn't, at that point in time. Now that Super Hero has released, they must really want to capitalize on its hype as much as they can, so there's even more incentive to kick the Granola saga to the curb.
The moral of the story: Don’t. Lose. Your. Eyebrows
The fighting is cool and it's great to see sign again, but I'm just waiting for the twist.
Gas is the strongest in the universe, they've said multiple times they can't beat him. And logically, they can't, so unless they just get stronger out of nowhere (which they might), then there has to be a twist.
Maybe Granolah comes back in, that'd be nice, maybe gas can't handle all three at once, maybe freeza shows up, maybe Gogeta shows up, he didn't exist when the wish was made he wouldn't count for the wish, maybe fuggin broly shows up.
I'm just waiting for the twist.
I feel like this is toyotaros arc and he is mainly the lead writer. Tori just says yes or no to a outline and wants toyo to run an arc and see how the fans react
I don't feel like either of them are good for the franchise anymore. They both suck at writing for their own series and dozens of fans who have made fan manga or what ifs that went a little beyond the story can prove that.
Granolah arc is feeling the Arc Fatigue
Cereal shouldn't be so seductive but I'm also hungry now.
A *V O R E* enthusiast.
I’m not too into Ultra Ego or even Ultra Instinct to be honest. They’re both described as something more than a basic power boost in their own ways, but both the manga and the anime have trouble actually showing those differences. Ultra Instinct has a few really cool dodges, but at least 50% of the time it’s handled the same way as the first time Goku went Super Saiyan with strong attacks and skilled but not abnormally cool dodges, and you go over Ultra Ego in this video so I won’t repeat that.
I think the main point of UI being different is to prevent transformation fatigue. UI gives the writers an excuse to expand its lifespan as a technique to continually master.
@@TonyMishima92 I understand the point of UI being different, I’m just saying that in practice it usually isn’t used differently enough to accomplish the goal of avoiding transformation fatigue.
@@joebobjon1127 But that's exactly what it's done. UI has been kept relevant for the last 3 arcs. Just now, we even see Omen return.
@@TonyMishima92 difference of opinion I guess. It just doesn’t work like that for me
@@joebobjon1127 Have you seen Goku access a new form since the ToP? If not, then there is no "opinion" on the matter. UI has been kept relevant all this time with its explanation.
Ultra ego is just not a good form, at least not against stronger opponents. Any form that has you taking damage to get stronger instead of absorbing it to get stronger is not good against stronger opponents. What's the point of having a lot of power if you can't use it properly because your body is broken by the time you get strong?
fr bro they could have made vegeta do actual good damage before passing out. it seemed like goku did more damage in that last bit than vegeta did the whole time.
That commercial had me like: 😳😥
Masa ki is a lucky man. Lmao
That was a fantastic cereal ad. I wasn't expecting it at all.
Maki was even questioning if Elec was being to harsh with Gas.
I'm going to say it flatly - this transformation was *unnecessary*.
I hate how every time it feels like the chapter is finally getting going, it ends and it's back to waiting a month.
Vegeta: Ha Ha Ha! I have mastered a technique which makes me more powerful the more I get punched. What are you going to do now weakling?!
Gas: Punch you harder.
Vegeta: Wait. Wha-aaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhh! *crashes into mountain*
My issue is that this felt like Vegeta and Granolah were supposed to be the central characters of the arc early on, but now it’s Goku Time (tm)
There is actually one reason alone why this whole arc has been the worst in Super, and that's because the 2 antagonists don't feel powerful because we know they wished for it. It just doesn't feel the same.
Whenever I see a strong opponent like Granola or Gas I can’t help but ask where were they during the TOP.
That cereal presentation was awesome now I want some magic spoon ☺️
It would've been fine if the other's got something to do so the fighting is more spaced out and even. That way it wouldn't feel as dragged out because you have a distraction from it with side characters. Remember when they were useful?
Not gonna lie, Gas did look like Moro in that old man look.
Am I the only one who feels this is all just filler to extend the arc until the movie comes out, like how they had to extend the fight with Frieza on namek while they were waiting for the manga to catch up, seriously, it feels like this should have ended a few chapters ago and yet here we are, hhhh
I agree with you. To me, this fluff was added to keep the arc going long enough for Super Hero to come out, otherwise a new saga could've stolen some thunder.
@@MasakoX I guarantee you, once the anime is back this saga is gonna be the one with the most changes, and that's if Toyotaro doesn't do it himself (which he probably should if he wants to save face)
I have never heard anybody THAT excited about cereal
I’ll take some. Spoon me, Masako’s wife
Anyone else feel like Elec is working for Frieza?
wow it's not just you Masako, your wife has a really good voice as well
I see ultra ego as a balancing act, the more vegeta gets hurt the stronger he becomes alright that checks out but the thing about that is. One can't really take damage without eventually tiring out so it's less about he never gets tired and more so about he has to find this perfect line with taking damage and not.
Vegeta has clearly not found that line yet which makes sense he's only used it 3 times and might not fully understand how it works.
It's the monthly schedule. I can guarantee that if not for that this manga wouldn't feel nearly as dragged out as it does right now.
its because he doesn't care about this franchise anymore. he finally got bullied into coming back and doing it for some extra cash before he croaks like we all will.
My theory is that Goku is using the Offensive version of Ultra Instinct -Sign- rather than the usual defensive style.
The Granolah saga did start out good and interesting at first, but sadly like the Moro saga this arc is quickly getting worser and worser by later chapter. It's as if the third and final act weren't fully planned out at all.
Well, Toriyama is notorious for not planning things out ahead of time. Also since he's a recluse, I guess Toyotaro doesn't get the chapter layout from Toriyama until close to publication date.
4th times the charm. Vegeta's losses are a red herring for however the arc is gonna end
until told otherwise, I'm calling that new UI form Saiyan Instinct.
Coming right off the heels of Super Hero, this is disappointing. Especially with how the movie handled that sparring match.
Precisely! When compared to Super Hero, another project Toriyama worked on...is quite stark.
@@MasakoX tbf, I have my doubts how much of that was Toriyama and how much was the rest of the movie team refining his draft from the position of a long time fan.
Cell Max is a good Villain? Lol
@@marcopetrilli8594 It's not a villain at all. It's the fallout of the villain's incompetence. Sure, having Gohan awaken a new power against a version of Cell was derivative, but with everything else referencing Red Ribbon and Gero, not having them try to recreate his greatest weapon at all would have made much less sense. And they distinctly chose to not give it a personality and changed quite a lot about it.
Not the best choice ever, but I can easily let it slide because everything else around it was just so fun.
Has Goku ever used mouth beam before? I guess it matches the theme of his new Saiyan Pride form