You have articulated the plus points of a phone camera very well. I agree with you totally. On paper it seems nothing could beat a phone camera. I also agree with you in that, personally, I do not get any pleasure or enjoyment from using my phone camera no matter how good the results may be. The bottom line (for me) is that the process of taking shots using a dedicated image taking device is hugely enjoyable and satisfying experience. Pardon the pun, but I have a photographic memory. When I look at images I have taken years ago, I can remember exactly what I was thinking and feeling at the time the image was taken and can remember the settings used to take the shot. Looking at every image I have taken takes me right back to the moment I took it. It’s the same with university notes taken 40 years ago - looking them takes me right back to the moment I made the note - I can remember exactly what was being said. The process of taking a shot with a dedicated camera is enjoyable for me but using a phone camera is an empty and soulless experience - despite all the undoubted conveniences they bring.
A family member said to me I don’t know how you take such lovely photos on a camera and terrible photos on a phone ? If they only knew I do it on purpose so nobody asks me to never ever take a photo on a phone!!!!
Good choice. I bought a Pixel a few years ago with one of the larger new generation sensors and it was supposed to be a big improvement over previous generations. I was disappointed to find out otherwise. Recently I thought about getting yet a newer generation, perhaps the S24 but then someone shared a picture of me taken with the S24 and I saw that the issues are still exactly the same as a few years ago, the quality hasn't really improved. The thing with phone camera is that the results can be really smooth and sharp when the subject is static and the phone has enough time to expose and process multiple shots into one. However, if there is the slightest movement, then it will turn out a potato of a picture in lower light. With a proper camera I can control this issue and have sharp photos even at high ISO.
I just got back from Disney world and have some thoughts. Amongst the hundreds of thousands of people we encountered throughout the week, I counted less than 2 dozen people with a proper camera (excluding Disney photographers). EVERYONE is just using their phone - and that’s just fine. I firmly believe the reason why is because of how hard it is to get the images off the camera and on to your phone. There is so much friction in the process. When apple comes out with a dedicated ILC camera that runs on Mac os and has access to all the apps found on a phone (text, insta, fb, TikTok, etc) it will be tremendously successful. I still can’t believe Sony hasnt released a proper camera running android with full cellular capabilities.
Isn’t Disneyworld mainly about taking rides… and do you really want to take a big camera on one? Seems like a better idea to use a phone anyway (and I’m a ‘big camera fan’).
Not sure what you mean regarding it being difficult to get images off of your camera & onto your phone. I have a Ricoh GR III, & a Leica Q2 Mono, both of which are 6 years old. I’m able to easily transfer photos directly to my phone wirelessly, without an internet connection. When I’m out shooting, the pictures are on my phone before I even get home.
I consider my phone as one of my (many) cameras, so I got a good one (Samsung S24 ultra), but am well aware of the advantages and limitations of each camera. Compared to an everyday carry camera, my phone's ultra wide angle and 10x telephoto (240mm FF equiv) offers additional unique perspectives. One specific advantage of a phone is that it's more discreet than a camera, so it can be used where a normal camera is sometimes regarded as inappropriate, like street photography; it's easier to snap a photo without people noticing it.
I'm currently using iphone 15 pro model..when you look at the pics taken with it and compare them to pics of a dedicated cam on small phone screens you don't feel much of a difference..but when i edit them afterwards in lightroom there's so much gap between..the dynamic range and the ability of color grading is no where near of the images taken with a real cam..but the real difference i notice is when i print them out..even iphone heif files (raw) looks terrible compared to my jpegs of my beloved fuji xt3..dont even mention the ergonomics...so for photos always reach out to my fujis..Having said that for video I do use my iphone quite often with an variable nd filter attached..
I found that the more I got into photography, the more I recognised the limitations of my current device, and the more I learned what superior devices could give you, photography wise. Out came the wallet! Happy New Year, Matti.
Best camera is the one you have with you...I've missed many shots due to not having a dedicated camera with me at the time and not having the phone within easy reach. Once I was lucky to actually have a camera with me when I saw a viper crossing the path I was on. Got great shots of it and a phone would not have worked in this case as you have to get close 😅. A dedicated camera is my choice as long as I remember to take one with me.
For me the phone is one of my cameras. It has its purposes. When I shot analog (until 2020!!!) it helped me mark the date of the photos. Now I use it for quick sharing, for taking a photo of something I can't read on paper, for 16mm super wide angle and for panorama. The latter two could be done with normal cameras, but I cannot really justify the investment into the lenses or into post-processing, since both usually work quite well on the phone. Now another hobby is cycling and I don't usually carry my fullframe camera with me, so the compact camera and the phone need to cover this. I do really enjoy my lenses and cameras when I do take them with me and I think that I can sometimes do things that are a little bit beyond what I can do with my phone. I am kind of missing something between, but what I have generally works fine for me.
Answer is IT DEPENDS. Make sure that you know how to use all your camera equipment to the best of their capability for the current conditions / scene, know how to use them quickly so as to not miss the shot, know how to quickly change settings to tweak for the current conditions / scene. I think Matti's comment on when you have your camera with you, you are in a photo taking mood / mode is very true, but that could also be true for using a cell phone for photography. Using a cell phone for photography has less of an behaviour impact on subjects than a "proper" camera (which can be good or bad, depending on the situation). In terms of post processing on the phone: these days it's fairly easy to transfer even RAW photos from the camera to the phone with BT/WiFi and edit them on the phone with eg. Adobe Lightroom (around USD2/month) or Snapseed (free). You can even take RAW photos with most phones these days, but the leeway for editing is much more limited there, but it's still very useful. I like to supplement my camera's current lens (usually not a wide angle lens) with the normal or the wide angle lens on my phone. I find that phones do a commendable job with landscape style photos.
I love the images you shot with the phone, great compositions, interesting subject. nice contrast with colors... I can't yet do that with a phone. I need the isolation of the view finder to frame my shots. You seem to have lots of talent and experience. Nice!
Firstly, you absolutely CAN tell the different, depending on the situation. Phone cameras can look a little flat and over processed sometimes and detail is usually not as good as a dedicated camera. Colours not as good either, highlights can get blown out etc etc. Secondly, it’s just not as enjoyable a process. A phone is a bit awkward to hold to take photos with, especially for several hours. Even the latest iPhone doesn’t come close to matching a dedicated camera. I can carry a Ricoh GR with me anywhere so convenience isn’t really an issue.
A phone is a swiss army knife, a dedicated camera is a scalpel. They both have their uses. What a use my phone camera for, as my eyes age, is as a quick and handy magnifying lens, particularly to read tiny serial number labels! Happy New Year Matti.
I understand the saying "the best camera is the one you have on you", and I often will use my iPhone for video. But because I have an iPhone it's really only good in bright daylight. iPhone has an issue with lens orbs when shooting video at night. Even using an action camera, set for low light, shoots better than my iPhone.
Good discussion, Matti. I used an iPhone as my only camera for some time between my film era and my dedicated pro quality digital camera, and I learned a lot about wide angle composition with my single lens iPhones. I covered several vacations with single lens iPhones and the results were of sufficient quality to print truly good looking books and calendars...not professional grade, but properly exposed and edited with Apple Photos, and fairly sharp. But as you say, without aperture and shutter control, you are quite limited in some situations and in creativity. I can't imagine that many people who learn on an iPhone will even know what they are missing because they never will learn fundamental concepts and the physics of optics. Which is fine with me, but I can't imagine myself enjoying such a dumbed down activity as my only means of making photos. Now there is something new to me about iPhone photography. I just recently replaced my iPhone XR with a 16 Pro. So many new widgets, but here's what disturbs me: there is now no on/off switch for HDR. I hate HDR and only use it in desperation when, as a tourist, I'm at the right place at the wrong time. HDR looks so fake! And there's something funny about the 16 Pro: a control labeled f-number, and a menu in camera settings that uses 35mm equivalent focal lengths. What do these mean to a GenZ or younger user?
I think the gap between the two “tools” is getting closer and closer. When I had an iPhone 6s the 4K video was very good but on a 5K iMac you could clearly see the difference between the iPhone and dedicated camera photos - now I have an iPhone 14 Pro Max the difference is far less and sometimes indistinguishable. However, some lenses have “character” and “rendering” characteristics that just look more (subjectively) pleasing. For telephoto the dedicated camera is still better. When travelling on a plane size and weight really matter so M4/3 + small lens is much easier but for video I often just take my iPhone + gimbal. As you say, it’s not just about technology but convenience and enjoyment and the best image quality possible in the circumstances.
i have an iPhone 15 Pro and a Canon R6 MKII, photography is my hobby, i never use my phone for taking photos on holiday trips, wildlife or make photos from my family.
My fave is dedicated camera of course. However year ago I found out the raw/expert option in my mobilephone. It's actually pretty decent low effort way to learn very basics of photography. I would suggest everyone starting there before investing into dedicated camera. To see if you actually like or not the process of photography.
an iPhone delivers almost all the things I want from a camera, as well as some things that are much better than traditional cameras. The one thing they don't offer is a large sensor and interchangeable lenses. You can very easily see the difference in those situations. That doesn't mean that the iPhone isn't a "real" camera, it is just a camera that doesn't have a large sensor or the ability to use interchangeable lenses. I actually find that it is awesome to have a second camera.
Hi Matti, my favourite Camera is a dedicated camera. I also like using my phone camera and I use Snapseed editing app to edit the photos. And Snapseed does a great job. I also like using the video mode on a phone which you mentioned and a great point that was. Thanks Matti 😊
I think the main concept here is that the phone people laugh at you when you oull out a bag of gear and stuff around with settings, like some old tech from the past, whereas they just pull out their phone and take the shot, and lets face it way good enough. I was in Phnom Penh at one of the famous sky bars, a group of young Chinese came in and one of the pretty girls was posing for the boys, of course we were all snapping away. My mate snapped a single shot with his Apple phone and on the back of his screen it looked pretty dam good, while I snapped a few shots with my Olympus and the 25mm 1.8. I saw his photo on the back of his screen and though jeez, its better than mine. I asked him to email me the image, when I looked at it on my computer screen it was as flat as a pancake. Sure my image was shot in RAW, but once processed it was 100% better, when you are a camera guy its a personal journey, and the nuances of a great image is wasted on 95% of the cell phone clan
get good. I have always been a smartphone camera guy. It is just recently I bought an olympus camera with a 25mm f2 lens, and glad I did, there's a big difference. A real camera will always beat the very artificial look of smartphones.
Only a camera can trigger a certain kind of emotion when taking photos. I say that as a complete layman who, at over sixty, has only had a camera for two years. I'm so crazy now that I hardly leave the house without a camera. Your videos have inspired me to use mft and prime lenses. That doesn't mean that it's not a great thing to have a great camera with you at all times on your smartphone. From a purely technical point of view, these have now reached a remarkable level. When I visit exhibitions, for example, it's the smartphone that enables me to take great pictures even in unfavorable situations. But when it gets dark, the fun is over for me... Great video. Thanks for that, Matti.
In my personal experience people absolutely did and do complain about poor image quality from cell phone cameras. In my case it was my wife. She was so displeased with our cell phone cameras made her look (and our child look), she was willing to invest in a state-of-the-art mirrorless camera and lens combo. Modern "high quality camera phones" are the modern version of the old disposable film cameras or a polaroid. They are convenient. They take good-enough quality images in any typical situation a family find themselves in. And in the case of a polaroid, they are instant. That being said, to my eye (and my wife's eye) they all look very highly processed which typically translates to muddy color, soft, poor contrast images.
Hello Matti, I see that you made it nicely into the New Year, for which I wish you all the best - cameras, lenses, and above all photo walks and moments to enjoy photography to its fullest. I'm back and forth between iphone and GX80 for reasons you mentioned, as well. The camera gives me more (direct ie button/dial) control of relevant adjustments AND has a viewfinder and a flip-out screen for different viewing angles. As soon as I put it up to my eye I'm focused (no pun intended) more on what I want to take a photo of, especially on how I want the composition of the scene to look like, I'm a photographer. Shooting with the phone I feel more like an observer who uses his knowledge of photography to record a scene. But then... my phone is always with me and spontaneous vistas or ideas deserve a quick shot, which, after a bit of snapseed massage (I'm still using an "antique" iphone 8) sometimes turns into a nice picture. For short, spontaneous fb or ig videos, however, it's pretty much always the phone.
Several of your excellent points are most important to me, and I group them as "the effect in my head." With a dedicated camera, I raise it to use and my mind shifts to "photography mode." The biggest difference for me is really the pleasure and ease. My DSLR is familiar and comfortable. It is less advanced and has fewer features than my mirrorless or my phone, but it does exactly what I want without fuss, so I can just enjoy the photography. Even my camera strap is part of this: it is less advanced than the Peak Design type, but I touch the leather and want to just walk outside and make adventures. Someone else would hold my equipment and feel nothing, and grab their superior technology. And that is okay, because I am not them.
Everything you say is true and well said. I myself use a wide array of photo tools, including an iPhone 15 Pro Max. For most serious purposes the traditional camera will have an indisputable edge--it's physics--but the phone's advantages are connectivity and stealth. It's just easier to communicate and share one's work with a phone camera. I also think the best street photography, mine anyway, is shot on phones because the photographer is usually invisible. And one more thing...cost. At the price point of a good smartphone--$1200--the utility and versatility of the phone is unmatched. There are good thousand-dollar cameras--the GR III comes to mind---but you get a lot for your money with top-tier smart phones. Of course, in the end, we all know it's the will and the eye that make superior photos, not the hardware.
No surprise, I am a "camera" first photographer but am using the phone more lately on family outings. Some of my favorite photos of last year were from my 4 year old granddaughter using my daughters phone, a true joy of photography. After watching this vid I watched "Martha Cooper Revisits NYC’s Alphabet City" where seasoned pro uses both a DSLR and a phone on a daily photo walk.
I've switched from using my phone, to that of a DSLR, you really can tell the difference. BUT, when I see the snobs carrying on like 'I'm a photographer and I can tell the difference so it's always a CAMERA, my immediate thought is, so, you're out to lunch or dinner, or going shopping, or whatever, and you take your kit because you may get a shot...yeah, that's real practical.
I own lots of cameras but recently have gravitated towards using my phone .... Did a trip last year to SE Asia and only took a pixel 3 phone, took great shots almost all the time, I started assembling a camera kit to do more travel and because I like to use wide angle (18mm) shots for architecture , landscape stuff thought that would be ideal, have a Fuji xa7, xc 16-50 and Samyang 12mm mf lens, I've recently come to the conclusion that it's too much hassle to carry around, keep charged, swap lenses all the time, I now have a pixel 6 and it has 0.7x 1x and 2x mag settings, 0.7x is great for wide shots and honestly I did a side by side comparison of both devices and found it hard to justify taking a dedicated camera. I travel for months at a time with carry on luggage and the camera setup weighs 1kg out of a 7kg limit.....
Well the shooting experience and lack of control suck on a phone, the overprocessed and usually wide-angle all in focus look, or even worse the fake bokeh suck on a phone plus computational photography that is totally out of your control sucks on a phone. Good for taking a pic but nothing more. That being said a good photograph can be taken with any means by someone with a mind to do it including a phone.
The better phone cameras get, the smaller the target group for real cameras becomes. I'm curious how long it takes before the only cameras sold are specialized tools.
with a camera you can create art - with a phone you can collect memories. i have a 1" sensor in my phone but the image quality is sooo low compared to my sony A7r3. but when you dont need or want that quality just go with your phone
I have a Sony A5000 camera with a good Zeiss Vario-Tessar E 4/16 - 70 ZA OSS telephoto lens and an OPPO Find X6 Pro phone. I travel a lot with my family and take many photos of people and scenes using automatic mode. I found that the photo quality of the Sony camera is about the same as the Oppo. So, now I rarely take my Sony with me when travelling. I agree that the camera will give us better control when using manual mode and you can get more out of it if you are a professional photographer. But the phone has many good features, such as: quick editing and AI Erases anyone/object in the background of photos (95% success for me). The Oppo takes very impression photos, esp. Macro of flowers/insects, Portrait of people, night time photos and distant photos. The autofocus is also impressive, esp. if you are short-sighted. I am not a professional photographer. I do not worry about losing the phone as I take frequent offsite backup. It would be good if you can do some comparisons of picture quality between flagship phones and Sony cameras.Thx
I see so .many backlit phone shots with under exposed subjects. I wonder why the takers don't seem to mind.I do like my subjects properly exposed so usually have my M43 with me.
I insist that my students use a camera and the viewfinder of the camera for class work. cell phones are very potent, pieces of equipment that produce good images consistently. It does lend itself to anecdotal (accidental) images that can be easily transmitted to other cell phones. The viewfinder forces you to frame, to consider and make decisions on the treatment of your subject. That's how one makes art.
It's a completely different vibe and shooting experience for me with a "Real Camera." I hate LCD screens. The magic happens when you put your eye to a Viewfinder. You become one with your camera at that point.
I like my Pentax WG-90 because it fits nicely in the watch pocket of my jeans, won't break if I drop it, and has a pretty nice optical zoom with a glass lens. My phone won't fit there, I risk smashing the screen if I ever drop it, and has to use a digital zoom through a plastic lens.
i love to shoot with dedicated camera. but sometime i dont feel comfortable taking out my bulky dslr/mirrorless in croud such as restaurant, feel like everyone is starring. futhermore some place forbid the use of dedicated camera
"if i enjoy my camera, I take better pictures"... well said. Most of my photos taken with the phone have no volume, they are all in one dimension. Pictures taken with proper lenses are atmospheric. Phones will never achieve that as long as any sort of lenses will be attached to those tiny sensors.
My Google Pixel 6Pro has a serviceable and useful/convenient set of lenses and algorithms for photography and particularly videography. I use it often for more spontaneous captures; mostly destined for social media, and for georeferenced records for my work as an ecologist. The raw option is there, but isn't as useful as a camera raw file format. Fixed aperture on the phone is probably the main reason that I still consider phone photography too much of a compromise overall. The computational OoF manipulation is still pretty hit and miss. I love using cameras though, and I can feel the happiness factor increase as soon as I have one in hand. I do also enjoy having obvious mechanical controls for the exposure triangle, way more control over focus, and of course complete control of DoF with a real variable aperture. Probably for mass non-expert photography in the future, phones in whatever form/s they morph into will rule everything else. I like to think that real cameras and lenses in the hands of people who like to use them, and know how to get the most out of them, will continue to have a solid place for some years to come (or at least until I'm too old to know anything about it anymore!!).
In my experience the phone camera has become so much better it has replaced the need for the dedecated consumer grade camera. To get better result than you can get with a phone camera you dont get with really expensive cameras, you need te hskill to use your tool. So I dont see any use cases for a dedicated fixed lens camera anymore. But system cameras paired with the skill to use it will still be far superior to the phone camera.
Matti I urge you to really try current, modern photography centric android phones. If based on yesteryear's phones, of course the quality isn't as good. But tech has moved quite significantly forward since then. Try the vivo x200 pro and really give it a good chance. I have the previous year's one and to be honest it has replaced my macro lens and my tele lens on my fuji. It is that good. If you base your assessment based on an iphone, an actual camera wins every time, hands down.
I think the choice of a phone camera is as much a personal preference as the choice of a dedicated camera. To each their own. Android gives me allergic reactions😀 right at the start so I very much doubt I could have a good time with any Android phone camera. I appreciate your opinion though and I'm happy to hear Android works for you.
@mattisulanto haha. I get it. But to that let me try to offer a rebuttal. That is akin to saying you find the autofocus capability of Fujifilm lacking but you refuse to pickup a Sony camera because it's a personal preference. In that case, it would be a bit unfair lump all mirrorless cameras to have lackluster autofocus and to say dslr (like the Canon 1DX mk III) is better. I guess what I'm saying is, iPhone is a phone, but a phone is not an iPhone.
Hey Matti! Hope all is going well with you and your family! Happy New Year and all the best to you and your family my friend. Regarding your video and answering your question, I can saynthe following... Phone câmeras are getting good, pretty good to be honest, also they are on us everyday and everytime, making them handy. A good photo doesn't care the medium you used to take it, if its good its good. But despite most people can't recognize a phone photo from a camera photo, I personally can and I will always prefer if given the opportunity to grab a shot using a dedicated camera. Personally besides some more intimate but casual family photos I think I haven't used my phone for my photography in several years now, in the last year and a half I always carry with me a small digital camera (usually and MFT camera) and also an analog compact halfframe film camera. And despite having my phone in the pocket every time I never use it for my photography. Nevertheless I can appreciate a good photo whatever way it was taken, because a good photo for me is one that rises emotions on me, it's not the technicality of the photo that makes me like a good photo or not. All the best to you my friend!
I’ve led photography workshops open to people who want to use only their smart phones. Their biggest frustration, by far, revolves around their desire for telephoto images. No phone camera comes close to their expectations, and from that point we can begin to talk about other advantages of dedicated cameras.
Everything you said, but also data security. Once you have seen someone framing up a shot with their phone only to have it nicked by a fly past snatch & grab on an electric scooter, it makes you realise the risks. If you get your phone nicked you lose your data, contacts, apps and all the security risks associated with it + the days of hassle trying to get it all sorted out. I usually pack at least a GX800 Pana with a cap lens, pocket sized. If it gets nicked or falls in the river, that's a bummer, but all I have to do is logon to MPB and buy another one.
I've just splashed on the Google Pixel 9 Pro for its cameras. I was considering a pocketable "proper" camera, like the Sony RX100VII. Now I have a pocketable camera and a phone to go with it 🙃. Saving $$ in the process. Have I abandoned my a6700 bacause of it? Definitely not. Mainly if I need telephoto reach and/or subject separation. I've performed a quick low light performance comparison between the two. In the evening, in the living room, on a black object located in a darker spot. It was a harsh treatment, I know. The phone beats the camera hands down in such conditions. I've used my fastest f/1.2 lens, have done my best bringing up shadows, denoising etc., and the image from the phone camera was waaaay cleaner, hands down, without all the fuss with Lighteoom.
Yes, I just sold three Sony bodies and an assortment of lenses and bought an iPhone. This is amazing. Sports, wild life, birds, portraits, street. This iPhone can do it all. Who needs 61Mp's when you can just use your iPhone? Plus, G Master lenses have nothing on the iPhones mega lenses. This goes for Canon and Nikon lenses, too. Just sell all your gear and head down to your nearest Apple store. My images have never been better.
I've taken thousands of phone shots since the iPhone 4s, some have even turned into prints that people have purchased. That said, phone photos mostly look like dull-boring over-processed phone photos. Even the best phones struggle with representing scenes faithfully. The computational magic is great (to a point) for snapshots and panoramas with iphones are amazingly effortless. For casual videos, hands-down - The phone is mostly utilized. However, my best photos are always taken with dedicated cameras. Phones simply cannot match the handling, degree of control and lens flexibility that a dedicated camera offers. Phones are mostly more convenient, but simply not as fun. Both phones and dedicated cameras have their place when it comes to content creation. For some, a good phone is all they'll ever need, but not for this guy.
My phone photos usually look quite good. Especially landscapes and stuff like flowers But they just look weird when you pixel peep. That shouldn't matter but somehow it does😄
As the old adage goes , What is the the best camera to use? Answer is , the one you have with you at the time. I will never get up in the morning & say , I think I'll grab my iPhone & go out & do some photography. .Mind though, when our 2 cat's antics are always surprising us, the cell phone is necessary as I won't have time to grab my camera. Best of both worlds I guess.
Phone + a cinema camera exclusively for work is the best combo. Popular budget hybrid cameras are overrated and usually for social media influencers. I would say if you really wanna get a camera, dont mess around and get one for something you actually wanna do professionally. If you wanna be a wildlife photographer, then buy a high end camera with a zoom lens straight away. No need for starting on a budget. You already have that in your pocket - your phone.
They might produce good pictures. BUT such a horrible experience. Its not just the picture, but the whole experience of the picture taking. For me. Only a camera gives me the 100% good Feeling.
Many years ago I read: For good a photo you need object, subject and gadget. Subject is You, your mind, experience... Gadget may be so different. I don't remind you, how many photos has been catched with primitive (from out time of view) cameras. Development of cameras on smartphones going so fast...
Most photographers when talking about their cameras will first state, brand, model and what they like or don't like about it, some conversations will revolve around sensor size and resolution, camera ergonomics and so on, you never hear anything close to this when it comes to smartphone cameras, for me using a smartphone for photography is like bringing a waterpistol to a gun fight.
This old topic 🤪😃 Personally, I don't like to take photos on my phone ever since I got my first camera in May 2022. Partly because of the quality, but mostly because the best sensor is always a 24/26mm lens and I just don't like to shoot regular stuff on that. Since I switched to an Xperia phone in August, I have rediscovered to shoot video when I'm on my way through fields or the forest because it gives me a lot of setting options: Creative style, Rec709 or multi-frame EDR capture, turning on and off of the computational stuff, using Cinetone profile, different degrees of stabilization etc etc So every walking shot is shot on the Xperia, everything else on my 7R Mk III. That's a compromise I can live with. When using iPhone, I just hated this look the last 2-3 years. I couldn't stand that artificial stuff anymore.
If I may ask, what Xperia model do you have? I've used the Xperia Pro-i for a couple years. Until a year ago I didn't own a digital camera, though I did many years ago. I like the Xperia, and took many enjoyable photos in both the city and wilderness areas. But Now I prefer a camera for still shots. I'm trying to decide whether to mainly use my Xperia for video, or my OM-5 or E-P7. Even when I carry a camera, I also have my Xperia phone too. The phone is far more sophisticated for video, as you know. I like the feel of shooting with a camera better. I'm not sure which would produce better looking video. Do you (or anyone else) have a suggestion? (I mean video with a focal length at or near the FF equivalent 24mm of the main Xperia camera. If I want a long focal length video, of course only a camera can do that.)
I agree with you completely. My cell phone can do everything including excellent video. There are only 3 situations where Cell phone may not win, fast action, low light situation and super zoom. Try your Cell phone for birds in flight and sports. How about low light situations cell phone flash is a joke. Overall I still think cell phone is still fantastic. Those of you professional photographers can deny all you want about cell phone. Most pictures taken today are for social sharing. Pictures in Facebook and Instagram I cant tell the difference.
The pictures of my iPhone 16 pro look MORE PLEASING than my expensive system camera! I don't care if it was mad by internal computunal processing. This is cool & also frustrating. Manfucatures of cameras should also be able to deliver the quality of a handy...
I used to think the same, but our family went on a holiday and the night photos were disastrous. After that i bought a proper camera and lens and took it whenever we had an outing. The photos are amazing.
@@stehlealexander did you buy a good lens? What camera and lens did you use? Mine just zve10 with 11mm 1.8 lens, not very impressive but it's more than enough for low light photos. My wife's 14 and I don't think there's that much difference in night time photography between 14 and 16, It's very grainy.
@ i have a lot of good lenses on my m43 system. iPhone 16pro make’s probably a lot of hdr pictures. But it look very good to my eyes. This is something that camera manufacturers don’t do. You will be surprised after the iPhone update. By the way: I spent a lot of money in camera equipment - so this words don’t come easy
Phone vs camera is a weird debate, they're two completely different things, I think anyone who tries to debate this haven't actually used real camera systems themselves
There's no substitute for a proper modern dedicated camera. Even the S24 Ultra, which I tested, can't match its performance in low-light conditions. Despite all its AI capabilities, it fails miserably to render darker areas effectively. Moreover, even a dedicated camera can benefit from AI noise reduction, giving it an even greater edge over smartphones. So, I can confidently say that smartphones aren't there yet, at least not for the foreseeable future.
Nature, especially leaves and grass, look bad if they were photographed with a mobile phone. Mobile phone cameras simply cannot take a nice photo in nature. For street photography (cars, buildings, restaurants) it is perfectly fine. Also, processing photos from a mobile phone in Lightroom makes no sense, the quality always deteriorates rather than improves.
But it’s not FF😊. I actually use my phone a lot…usually because I have it with me at the time. Often looks good…my camera tends to be more for large zoom needs or when I need to crop. More your image quality point. Of course with AI, we may need a real photo less and less. Different tools for different needs. For me I don’t really enjoy using my phone nearly as much as my camera.
You really got an eye for motives and both can capture. But how often do you change your phone vs your camera? Money talks as well. And compression kills btw.
Thanks. I had my previous phone for five years and the current one is almost two years old. I've had many more cameras than phones during that almost seven years.
80% of phone images just look horrible. However every now and then I'll take an image and after processing will be impressed with how it looks and it will be close to a camera image 'look'. 95% of my images are Black and White which helps but every now and then the camera on the phone does come up trumps!
I voted plus! But the phone is in many ways better.Stright to FB! I cannot see the screen in strong sunlight! Camera has viewfinder,,On trip to South Africa M'Lady only used phone and had 2 large albums printed!
For zoom in 100% view, even a old Canon 1" sensor G7X still better than my iPhone 15 Pro MAX main camera take with RAW file, iPhone only win on HDR compu Photos.
Check out the Fjordan line for iPhones. A new Leica company having a go at replicating a true ‘camera’ experience on an iPhone, especially if you adapt the Moment lens line to the case, great for video. Will it replace my ‘real’ Leica camera gear? Nope, but It adds another photographic option that is actually always with me.
To be clear, I use Lightroom, Snapseed, Leica Lux and PS Express on my iPhone to edit all my mobile photos and never make prints taken with my iPhone larger than 5x7. I do all my video via iPhone. Otherwise I’m a FF Sony and Leica shooter. I enjoy them all.
But in your insightful video that I totally loved, Matti, you have not mentioned once the word “digital”. You were comparing “phone camera” to “dedicated camera” or “real camera” all along. Everything you said also applies to analog cameras, including “in-camera”post processing. Like double exposure for example (ok I am pushing too far with this one 🤣). I would even argue that with my “dedicated cameras” I do not even need a battery 😊 Thank you Matti for inspiring us! ❤📷
I think phones have a real advantage you didn’t say. My composition on my phone ( S24 ULTRA ) is always better than my A7RV. Why, size of screen. How can someone see a large screen image of what they are about to take and get it wrong. Sure the Sony A7RV has the best flip screen and fantastic view finder but both are nothing like my 7” screen phone’s oled panel. I am fed up with Sony’s rubbish poor quality small screens. I want to see a great photo the second after I take it.
Well, almost a click bate subject. Strong and different opinions guaranteed. My take? It all depends on what you are doing with your images. Yes, the best phone cameras produce nice images in most circumstances when watched at small phone screens, or printed in small to medium sizes. That is good enough for most people. But for people that use their images for large prints or in video productions that are watched on large TV's (42 inch and up) phone images are often not that nice to watch. All modern phones use a lot of image manipulations (with or without AI). And these images can look very artificial, especially when watched on large screens/prints. I use my Pixel phones for easy shooting/non demanding images and sending images around. For my more demanding work I use dedicated cameras. Not only for better image quality, but also because a real camera is much easier to handle when you don't want all-auto photography and you want to use specific settings to get the image the way you want it to look, not how the phonemaker wants it to look. With some phones you can change settings as well, but it is a pain to make these settings on a small screen. Just my two cents.
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People might not be able to tell the difference or care, but I can and that's a good reason enough to use a camera
There you go you just answer his question😊
You have articulated the plus points of a phone camera very well. I agree with you totally. On paper it seems nothing could beat a phone camera. I also agree with you in that, personally, I do not get any pleasure or enjoyment from using my phone camera no matter how good the results may be.
The bottom line (for me) is that the process of taking shots using a dedicated image taking device is hugely enjoyable and satisfying experience. Pardon the pun, but I have a photographic memory. When I look at images I have taken years ago, I can remember exactly what I was thinking and feeling at the time the image was taken and can remember the settings used to take the shot. Looking at every image I have taken takes me right back to the moment I took it. It’s the same with university notes taken 40 years ago - looking them takes me right back to the moment I made the note - I can remember exactly what was being said.
The process of taking a shot with a dedicated camera is enjoyable for me but using a phone camera is an empty and soulless experience - despite all the undoubted conveniences they bring.
A family member said to me I don’t know how you take such lovely photos on a camera and terrible photos on a phone ? If they only knew I do it on purpose so nobody asks me to never ever take a photo on a phone!!!!
I won a Samsung 24. Sold it and bought a lens with the money 😁
I bought a Samsung S23ultra because of the camera(s) 1.5 years ago. But that is not universal truth, just my personal choice for my sixth camera.
Good choice
Good choice. I bought a Pixel a few years ago with one of the larger new generation sensors and it was supposed to be a big improvement over previous generations. I was disappointed to find out otherwise.
Recently I thought about getting yet a newer generation, perhaps the S24 but then someone shared a picture of me taken with the S24 and I saw that the issues are still exactly the same as a few years ago, the quality hasn't really improved.
The thing with phone camera is that the results can be really smooth and sharp when the subject is static and the phone has enough time to expose and process multiple shots into one.
However, if there is the slightest movement, then it will turn out a potato of a picture in lower light.
With a proper camera I can control this issue and have sharp photos even at high ISO.
Good call, I would sell any samsung phone, no matter the model ;)
I just got back from Disney world and have some thoughts. Amongst the hundreds of thousands of people we encountered throughout the week, I counted less than 2 dozen people with a proper camera (excluding Disney photographers). EVERYONE is just using their phone - and that’s just fine. I firmly believe the reason why is because of how hard it is to get the images off the camera and on to your phone. There is so much friction in the process. When apple comes out with a dedicated ILC camera that runs on Mac os and has access to all the apps found on a phone (text, insta, fb, TikTok, etc) it will be tremendously successful. I still can’t believe Sony hasnt released a proper camera running android with full cellular capabilities.
Isn’t Disneyworld mainly about taking rides… and do you really want to take a big camera on one? Seems like a better idea to use a phone anyway (and I’m a ‘big camera fan’).
Not sure what you mean regarding it being difficult to get images off of your camera & onto your phone.
I have a Ricoh GR III, & a Leica Q2 Mono, both of which are 6 years old. I’m able to easily transfer photos directly to my phone wirelessly, without an internet connection.
When I’m out shooting, the pictures are on my phone before I even get home.
Why would you ever put them on a phone? Just bring a small laptop or something...
The why is cost. It will be very very expensive.
My phone camera is always with me, and it's lens is always dirty.
LOL, slide it in and out of a jacket pocket and it will clean itself. Just don't use it in the middle of eating finger food!
Why cook your meals when you can buy frozen dinners. Because, for some, there is joy in the craft.
The best camera to use is the one you have with you.
I consider my phone as one of my (many) cameras, so I got a good one (Samsung S24 ultra), but am well aware of the advantages and limitations of each camera. Compared to an everyday carry camera, my phone's ultra wide angle and 10x telephoto (240mm FF equiv) offers additional unique perspectives.
One specific advantage of a phone is that it's more discreet than a camera, so it can be used where a normal camera is sometimes regarded as inappropriate, like street photography; it's easier to snap a photo without people noticing it.
I'm currently using iphone 15 pro model..when you look at the pics taken with it and compare them to pics of a dedicated cam on small phone screens you don't feel much of a difference..but when i edit them afterwards in lightroom there's so much gap between..the dynamic range and the ability of color grading is no where near of the images taken with a real cam..but the real difference i notice is when i print them out..even iphone heif files (raw) looks terrible compared to my jpegs of my beloved fuji xt3..dont even mention the ergonomics...so for photos always reach out to my fujis..Having said that for video I do use my iphone quite often with an variable nd filter attached..
I found that the more I got into photography, the more I recognised the limitations of my current device, and the more I learned what superior devices could give you, photography wise. Out came the wallet! Happy New Year, Matti.
Phone can never replace a real camera for the reasons you mentioned. The tactile experience is so much fun that the phone simply lacks 📸
Best camera is the one you have with you...I've missed many shots due to not having a dedicated camera with me at the time and not having the phone within easy reach. Once I was lucky to actually have a camera with me when I saw a viper crossing the path I was on. Got great shots of it and a phone would not have worked in this case as you have to get close 😅. A dedicated camera is my choice as long as I remember to take one with me.
For me the phone is one of my cameras. It has its purposes. When I shot analog (until 2020!!!) it helped me mark the date of the photos. Now I use it for quick sharing, for taking a photo of something I can't read on paper, for 16mm super wide angle and for panorama. The latter two could be done with normal cameras, but I cannot really justify the investment into the lenses or into post-processing, since both usually work quite well on the phone.
Now another hobby is cycling and I don't usually carry my fullframe camera with me, so the compact camera and the phone need to cover this.
I do really enjoy my lenses and cameras when I do take them with me and I think that I can sometimes do things that are a little bit beyond what I can do with my phone. I am kind of missing something between, but what I have generally works fine for me.
Answer is IT DEPENDS. Make sure that you know how to use all your camera equipment to the best of their capability for the current conditions / scene, know how to use them quickly so as to not miss the shot, know how to quickly change settings to tweak for the current conditions / scene. I think Matti's comment on when you have your camera with you, you are in a photo taking mood / mode is very true, but that could also be true for using a cell phone for photography. Using a cell phone for photography has less of an behaviour impact on subjects than a "proper" camera (which can be good or bad, depending on the situation). In terms of post processing on the phone: these days it's fairly easy to transfer even RAW photos from the camera to the phone with BT/WiFi and edit them on the phone with eg. Adobe Lightroom (around USD2/month) or Snapseed (free). You can even take RAW photos with most phones these days, but the leeway for editing is much more limited there, but it's still very useful. I like to supplement my camera's current lens (usually not a wide angle lens) with the normal or the wide angle lens on my phone. I find that phones do a commendable job with landscape style photos.
I love the images you shot with the phone, great compositions, interesting subject. nice contrast with colors... I can't yet do that with a phone. I need the isolation of the view finder to frame my shots. You seem to have lots of talent and experience. Nice!
Thanks so much for your kind words. I appreciate you actually looked at my photos.
Firstly, you absolutely CAN tell the different, depending on the situation. Phone cameras can look a little flat and over processed sometimes and detail is usually not as good as a dedicated camera. Colours not as good either, highlights can get blown out etc etc.
Secondly, it’s just not as enjoyable a process. A phone is a bit awkward to hold to take photos with, especially for several hours.
Even the latest iPhone doesn’t come close to matching a dedicated camera.
I can carry a Ricoh GR with me anywhere so convenience isn’t really an issue.
A phone is a swiss army knife, a dedicated camera is a scalpel. They both have their uses. What a use my phone camera for, as my eyes age, is as a quick and handy magnifying lens, particularly to read tiny serial number labels!
Happy New Year Matti.
For me the most important thing is to have fun. Nowadays all the tools take decent quality photos.👏
I understand the saying "the best camera is the one you have on you", and I often will use my iPhone for video. But because I have an iPhone it's really only good in bright daylight. iPhone has an issue with lens orbs when shooting video at night. Even using an action camera, set for low light, shoots better than my iPhone.
Good discussion, Matti. I used an iPhone as my only camera for some time between my film era and my dedicated pro quality digital camera, and I learned a lot about wide angle composition with my single lens iPhones. I covered several vacations with single lens iPhones and the results were of sufficient quality to print truly good looking books and calendars...not professional grade, but properly exposed and edited with Apple Photos, and fairly sharp.
But as you say, without aperture and shutter control, you are quite limited in some situations and in creativity.
I can't imagine that many people who learn on an iPhone will even know what they are missing because they never will learn fundamental concepts and the physics of optics. Which is fine with me, but I can't imagine myself enjoying such a dumbed down activity as my only means of making photos.
Now there is something new to me about iPhone photography. I just recently replaced my iPhone XR with a 16 Pro. So many new widgets, but here's what disturbs me: there is now no on/off switch for HDR. I hate HDR and only use it in desperation when, as a tourist, I'm at the right place at the wrong time. HDR looks so fake!
And there's something funny about the 16 Pro: a control labeled f-number, and a menu in camera settings that uses 35mm equivalent focal lengths. What do these mean to a GenZ or younger user?
I think the gap between the two “tools” is getting closer and closer. When I had an iPhone 6s the 4K video was very good but on a 5K iMac you could clearly see the difference between the iPhone and dedicated camera photos - now I have an iPhone 14 Pro Max the difference is far less and sometimes indistinguishable. However, some lenses have “character” and “rendering” characteristics that just look more (subjectively) pleasing. For telephoto the dedicated camera is still better. When travelling on a plane size and weight really matter so M4/3 + small lens is much easier but for video I often just take my iPhone + gimbal. As you say, it’s not just about technology but convenience and enjoyment and the best image quality possible in the circumstances.
i have an iPhone 15 Pro and a Canon R6 MKII, photography is my hobby, i never use my phone for taking photos on holiday trips, wildlife or make photos from my family.
My fave is dedicated camera of course. However year ago I found out the raw/expert option in my mobilephone. It's actually pretty decent low effort way to learn very basics of photography. I would suggest everyone starting there before investing into dedicated camera. To see if you actually like or not the process of photography.
an iPhone delivers almost all the things I want from a camera, as well as some things that are much better than traditional cameras. The one thing they don't offer is a large sensor and interchangeable lenses. You can very easily see the difference in those situations. That doesn't mean that the iPhone isn't a "real" camera, it is just a camera that doesn't have a large sensor or the ability to use interchangeable lenses. I actually find that it is awesome to have a second camera.
Hi Matti, my favourite Camera is a dedicated camera. I also like using my phone camera and I use Snapseed editing app to edit the photos. And Snapseed does a great job. I also like using the video mode on a phone which you mentioned and a great point that was. Thanks Matti 😊
I think the main concept here is that the phone people laugh at you when you oull out a bag of gear and stuff around with settings, like some old tech from the past, whereas they just pull out their phone and take the shot, and lets face it way good enough. I was in Phnom Penh at one of the famous sky bars, a group of young Chinese came in and one of the pretty girls was posing for the boys, of course we were all snapping away. My mate snapped a single shot with his Apple phone and on the back of his screen it looked pretty dam good, while I snapped a few shots with my Olympus and the 25mm 1.8. I saw his photo on the back of his screen and though jeez, its better than mine. I asked him to email me the image, when I looked at it on my computer screen it was as flat as a pancake. Sure my image was shot in RAW, but once processed it was 100% better, when you are a camera guy its a personal journey, and the nuances of a great image is wasted on 95% of the cell phone clan
get good. I have always been a smartphone camera guy. It is just recently I bought an olympus camera with a 25mm f2 lens, and glad I did, there's a big difference. A real camera will always beat the very artificial look of smartphones.
Happy New Year!
Yay! ty for new video, useful and interesting comparison
Only a camera can trigger a certain kind of emotion when taking photos. I say that as a complete layman who, at over sixty, has only had a camera for two years. I'm so crazy now that I hardly leave the house without a camera. Your videos have inspired me to use mft and prime lenses. That doesn't mean that it's not a great thing to have a great camera with you at all times on your smartphone. From a purely technical point of view, these have now reached a remarkable level. When I visit exhibitions, for example, it's the smartphone that enables me to take great pictures even in unfavorable situations. But when it gets dark, the fun is over for me... Great video. Thanks for that, Matti.
In my personal experience people absolutely did and do complain about poor image quality from cell phone cameras. In my case it was my wife. She was so displeased with our cell phone cameras made her look (and our child look), she was willing to invest in a state-of-the-art mirrorless camera and lens combo.
Modern "high quality camera phones" are the modern version of the old disposable film cameras or a polaroid. They are convenient. They take good-enough quality images in any typical situation a family find themselves in. And in the case of a polaroid, they are instant.
That being said, to my eye (and my wife's eye) they all look very highly processed which typically translates to muddy color, soft, poor contrast images.
Hello Matti, I see that you made it nicely into the New Year, for which I wish you all the best - cameras, lenses, and above all photo walks and moments to enjoy photography to its fullest. I'm back and forth between iphone and GX80 for reasons you mentioned, as well. The camera gives me more (direct ie button/dial) control of relevant adjustments AND has a viewfinder and a flip-out screen for different viewing angles. As soon as I put it up to my eye I'm focused (no pun intended) more on what I want to take a photo of, especially on how I want the composition of the scene to look like, I'm a photographer. Shooting with the phone I feel more like an observer who uses his knowledge of photography to record a scene. But then... my phone is always with me and spontaneous vistas or ideas deserve a quick shot, which, after a bit of snapseed massage (I'm still using an "antique" iphone 8) sometimes turns into a nice picture. For short, spontaneous fb or ig videos, however, it's pretty much always the phone.
Several of your excellent points are most important to me, and I group them as "the effect in my head."
With a dedicated camera, I raise it to use and my mind shifts to "photography mode."
The biggest difference for me is really the pleasure and ease. My DSLR is familiar and comfortable. It is less advanced and has fewer features than my mirrorless or my phone, but it does exactly what I want without fuss, so I can just enjoy the photography. Even my camera strap is part of this: it is less advanced than the Peak Design type, but I touch the leather and want to just walk outside and make adventures.
Someone else would hold my equipment and feel nothing, and grab their superior technology. And that is okay, because I am not them.
When I went to Ireland, I had an iPhone 5s and the photos were superb… Some of my favorites, in some cases even better than my DSLR.
Everything you say is true and well said. I myself use a wide array of photo tools, including an iPhone 15 Pro Max. For most serious purposes the traditional camera will have an indisputable edge--it's physics--but the phone's advantages are connectivity and stealth. It's just easier to communicate and share one's work with a phone camera. I also think the best street photography, mine anyway, is shot on phones because the photographer is usually invisible. And one more thing...cost. At the price point of a good smartphone--$1200--the utility and versatility of the phone is unmatched. There are good thousand-dollar cameras--the GR III comes to mind---but you get a lot for your money with top-tier smart phones. Of course, in the end, we all know it's the will and the eye that make superior photos, not the hardware.
Awesome video!
Thanks!
There are noticeable differences in proportions and zoom capabilities.
No surprise, I am a "camera" first photographer but am using the phone more lately on family outings. Some of my favorite photos of last year were from my 4 year old granddaughter using my daughters phone, a true joy of photography. After watching this vid I watched "Martha Cooper Revisits NYC’s Alphabet City" where seasoned pro uses both a DSLR and a phone on a daily photo walk.
I've switched from using my phone, to that of a DSLR, you really can tell the difference. BUT, when I see the snobs carrying on like 'I'm a photographer and I can tell the difference so it's always a CAMERA, my immediate thought is, so, you're out to lunch or dinner, or going shopping, or whatever, and you take your kit because you may get a shot...yeah, that's real practical.
I own lots of cameras but recently have gravitated towards using my phone .... Did a trip last year to SE Asia and only took a pixel 3 phone, took great shots almost all the time, I started assembling a camera kit to do more travel and because I like to use wide angle (18mm) shots for architecture , landscape stuff thought that would be ideal, have a Fuji xa7, xc 16-50 and Samyang 12mm mf lens, I've recently come to the conclusion that it's too much hassle to carry around, keep charged, swap lenses all the time, I now have a pixel 6 and it has 0.7x 1x and 2x mag settings, 0.7x is great for wide shots and honestly I did a side by side comparison of both devices and found it hard to justify taking a dedicated camera. I travel for months at a time with carry on luggage and the camera setup weighs 1kg out of a 7kg limit.....
I use both for photography, but I prefer cameras. I get better photos and I can control the camera.
Well the shooting experience and lack of control suck on a phone, the overprocessed and usually wide-angle all in focus look, or even worse the fake bokeh suck on a phone plus computational photography that is totally out of your control sucks on a phone. Good for taking a pic but nothing more. That being said a good photograph can be taken with any means by someone with a mind to do it including a phone.
Min 9:00 exactly,great video as always
The better phone cameras get, the smaller the target group for real cameras becomes. I'm curious how long it takes before the only cameras sold are specialized tools.
with a camera you can create art - with a phone you can collect memories. i have a 1" sensor in my phone but the image quality is sooo low compared to my sony A7r3. but when you dont need or want that quality just go with your phone
I have a Sony A5000 camera with a good Zeiss Vario-Tessar E 4/16 - 70 ZA OSS telephoto lens and an OPPO Find X6 Pro phone. I travel a lot with my family and take many photos of people and scenes using automatic mode. I found that the photo quality of the Sony camera is about the same as the Oppo. So, now I rarely take my Sony with me when travelling. I agree that the camera will give us better control when using manual mode and you can get more out of it if you are a professional photographer. But the phone has many good features, such as: quick editing and AI Erases anyone/object in the background of photos (95% success for me). The Oppo takes very impression photos, esp. Macro of flowers/insects, Portrait of people, night time photos and distant photos. The autofocus is also impressive, esp. if you are short-sighted. I am not a professional photographer. I do not worry about losing the phone as I take frequent offsite backup. It would be good if you can do some comparisons of picture quality between flagship phones and Sony cameras.Thx
I see so .many backlit phone shots with under exposed subjects. I wonder why the takers don't seem to mind.I do like my subjects properly exposed so usually have my M43 with me.
I insist that my students use a camera and the viewfinder of the camera for class work. cell phones are very potent, pieces of equipment that produce good images consistently. It does lend itself to anecdotal (accidental) images that can be easily transmitted to other cell phones. The viewfinder forces you to frame, to consider and make decisions on the treatment of your subject. That's how one makes art.
It's a completely different vibe and shooting experience for me with a "Real Camera." I hate LCD screens. The magic happens when you put your eye to a Viewfinder. You become one with your camera at that point.
Thank you, good topic!
I like my Pentax WG-90 because it fits nicely in the watch pocket of my jeans, won't break if I drop it, and has a pretty nice optical zoom with a glass lens. My phone won't fit there, I risk smashing the screen if I ever drop it, and has to use a digital zoom through a plastic lens.
I take photos with my camera because I enjoy it.
i love to shoot with dedicated camera. but sometime i dont feel comfortable taking out my bulky dslr/mirrorless in croud such as restaurant, feel like everyone is starring. futhermore some place forbid the use of dedicated camera
"if i enjoy my camera, I take better pictures"... well said.
Most of my photos taken with the phone have no volume, they are all in one dimension. Pictures taken with proper lenses are atmospheric. Phones will never achieve that as long as any sort of lenses will be attached to those tiny sensors.
My Google Pixel 6Pro has a serviceable and useful/convenient set of lenses and algorithms for photography and particularly videography. I use it often for more spontaneous captures; mostly destined for social media, and for georeferenced records for my work as an ecologist. The raw option is there, but isn't as useful as a camera raw file format. Fixed aperture on the phone is probably the main reason that I still consider phone photography too much of a compromise overall. The computational OoF manipulation is still pretty hit and miss. I love using cameras though, and I can feel the happiness factor increase as soon as I have one in hand. I do also enjoy having obvious mechanical controls for the exposure triangle, way more control over focus, and of course complete control of DoF with a real variable aperture. Probably for mass non-expert photography in the future, phones in whatever form/s they morph into will rule everything else. I like to think that real cameras and lenses in the hands of people who like to use them, and know how to get the most out of them, will continue to have a solid place for some years to come (or at least until I'm too old to know anything about it anymore!!).
In my experience the phone camera has become so much better it has replaced the need for the dedecated consumer grade camera. To get better result than you can get with a phone camera you dont get with really expensive cameras, you need te hskill to use your tool. So I dont see any use cases for a dedicated fixed lens camera anymore. But system cameras paired with the skill to use it will still be far superior to the phone camera.
Matti I urge you to really try current, modern photography centric android phones. If based on yesteryear's phones, of course the quality isn't as good. But tech has moved quite significantly forward since then.
Try the vivo x200 pro and really give it a good chance. I have the previous year's one and to be honest it has replaced my macro lens and my tele lens on my fuji. It is that good.
If you base your assessment based on an iphone, an actual camera wins every time, hands down.
I think the choice of a phone camera is as much a personal preference as the choice of a dedicated camera. To each their own. Android gives me allergic reactions😀 right at the start so I very much doubt I could have a good time with any Android phone camera. I appreciate your opinion though and I'm happy to hear Android works for you.
@mattisulanto haha. I get it. But to that let me try to offer a rebuttal. That is akin to saying you find the autofocus capability of Fujifilm lacking but you refuse to pickup a Sony camera because it's a personal preference. In that case, it would be a bit unfair lump all mirrorless cameras to have lackluster autofocus and to say dslr (like the Canon 1DX mk III) is better.
I guess what I'm saying is, iPhone is a phone, but a phone is not an iPhone.
I totally agree. Also battery life. When I’m using my phone for photos runs a battery down pretty quick.
Hey Matti! Hope all is going well with you and your family! Happy New Year and all the best to you and your family my friend.
Regarding your video and answering your question, I can saynthe following... Phone câmeras are getting good, pretty good to be honest, also they are on us everyday and everytime, making them handy. A good photo doesn't care the medium you used to take it, if its good its good. But despite most people can't recognize a phone photo from a camera photo, I personally can and I will always prefer if given the opportunity to grab a shot using a dedicated camera. Personally besides some more intimate but casual family photos I think I haven't used my phone for my photography in several years now, in the last year and a half I always carry with me a small digital camera (usually and MFT camera) and also an analog compact halfframe film camera. And despite having my phone in the pocket every time I never use it for my photography.
Nevertheless I can appreciate a good photo whatever way it was taken, because a good photo for me is one that rises emotions on me, it's not the technicality of the photo that makes me like a good photo or not.
All the best to you my friend!
Thanks for sharing, my friend.
I’ve led photography workshops open to people who want to use only their smart phones. Their biggest frustration, by far, revolves around their desire for telephoto images. No phone camera comes close to their expectations, and from that point we can begin to talk about other advantages of dedicated cameras.
Everything you said, but also data security. Once you have seen someone framing up a shot with their phone only to have it nicked by a fly past snatch & grab on an electric scooter, it makes you realise the risks. If you get your phone nicked you lose your data, contacts, apps and all the security risks associated with it + the days of hassle trying to get it all sorted out. I usually pack at least a GX800 Pana with a cap lens, pocket sized. If it gets nicked or falls in the river, that's a bummer, but all I have to do is logon to MPB and buy another one.
I've just splashed on the Google Pixel 9 Pro for its cameras. I was considering a pocketable "proper" camera, like the Sony RX100VII. Now I have a pocketable camera and a phone to go with it 🙃. Saving $$ in the process. Have I abandoned my a6700 bacause of it? Definitely not. Mainly if I need telephoto reach and/or subject separation.
I've performed a quick low light performance comparison between the two. In the evening, in the living room, on a black object located in a darker spot. It was a harsh treatment, I know. The phone beats the camera hands down in such conditions. I've used my fastest f/1.2 lens, have done my best bringing up shadows, denoising etc., and the image from the phone camera was waaaay cleaner, hands down, without all the fuss with Lighteoom.
Yes, I just sold three Sony bodies and an assortment of lenses and bought an iPhone. This is amazing. Sports, wild life, birds, portraits, street. This iPhone can do it all. Who needs 61Mp's when you can just use your iPhone? Plus, G Master lenses have nothing on the iPhones mega lenses. This goes for Canon and Nikon lenses, too. Just sell all your gear and head down to your nearest Apple store. My images have never been better.
Shutter therapy is better on a dedicated camera!
Thank you so much for your informative video as usual. I cannot agree with you more.
I've taken thousands of phone shots since the iPhone 4s, some have even turned into prints that people have purchased. That said, phone photos mostly look like dull-boring over-processed phone photos. Even the best phones struggle with representing scenes faithfully. The computational magic is great (to a point) for snapshots and panoramas with iphones are amazingly effortless. For casual videos, hands-down - The phone is mostly utilized.
However, my best photos are always taken with dedicated cameras. Phones simply cannot match the handling, degree of control and lens flexibility that a dedicated camera offers. Phones are mostly more convenient, but simply not as fun. Both phones and dedicated cameras have their place when it comes to content creation. For some, a good phone is all they'll ever need, but not for this guy.
My phone photos usually look quite good. Especially landscapes and stuff like flowers
But they just look weird when you pixel peep. That shouldn't matter but somehow it does😄
As the old adage goes , What is the the best camera to use? Answer is , the one you have with you at the time. I will never get up in the morning & say , I think I'll grab my iPhone & go out & do some photography. .Mind though, when our 2 cat's antics are always surprising us, the cell phone is necessary as I won't have time to grab my camera. Best of both worlds I guess.
Phone + a cinema camera exclusively for work is the best combo. Popular budget hybrid cameras are overrated and usually for social media influencers. I would say if you really wanna get a camera, dont mess around and get one for something you actually wanna do professionally. If you wanna be a wildlife photographer, then buy a high end camera with a zoom lens straight away. No need for starting on a budget. You already have that in your pocket - your phone.
They might produce good pictures. BUT such a horrible experience. Its not just the picture, but the whole experience of the picture taking. For me. Only a camera gives me the 100% good Feeling.
Many years ago I read: For good a photo you need object, subject and gadget.
Subject is You, your mind, experience...
Gadget may be so different. I don't remind you, how many photos has been catched with primitive (from out time of view) cameras.
Development of cameras on smartphones going so fast...
Most photographers when talking about their cameras will first state, brand, model and what they like or don't like about it, some conversations will revolve around sensor size and resolution, camera ergonomics and so on, you never hear anything close to this when it comes to smartphone cameras, for me using a smartphone for photography is like bringing a waterpistol to a gun fight.
Every phone i have bought had a terrible camera. That doesn't matter because i use to carry proper camera with me.
No longer necessarily true, the latest camera centric phone cameras are amazing. One of the best right now is vivo x200 pro, I highly recommend it.
Smartphone camera looks so artificial. I'd still go for dedicated camera.
This old topic 🤪😃
Personally, I don't like to take photos on my phone ever since I got my first camera in May 2022. Partly because of the quality, but mostly because the best sensor is always a 24/26mm lens and I just don't like to shoot regular stuff on that.
Since I switched to an Xperia phone in August, I have rediscovered to shoot video when I'm on my way through fields or the forest because it gives me a lot of setting options: Creative style, Rec709 or multi-frame EDR capture, turning on and off of the computational stuff, using Cinetone profile, different degrees of stabilization etc etc
So every walking shot is shot on the Xperia, everything else on my 7R Mk III. That's a compromise I can live with. When using iPhone, I just hated this look the last 2-3 years. I couldn't stand that artificial stuff anymore.
If I may ask, what Xperia model do you have?
I've used the Xperia Pro-i for a couple years. Until a year ago I didn't own a digital camera, though I did many years ago. I like the Xperia, and took many enjoyable photos in both the city and wilderness areas. But Now I prefer a camera for still shots.
I'm trying to decide whether to mainly use my Xperia for video, or my OM-5 or E-P7. Even when I carry a camera, I also have my Xperia phone too. The phone is far more sophisticated for video, as you know. I like the feel of shooting with a camera better. I'm not sure which would produce better looking video. Do you (or anyone else) have a suggestion?
(I mean video with a focal length at or near the FF equivalent 24mm of the main Xperia camera. If I want a long focal length video, of course only a camera can do that.)
For myself, the difference image quality is still huge. Sadly.
I agree with you completely. My cell phone can do everything including excellent video. There are only 3 situations where Cell phone may not win, fast action, low light situation and super zoom. Try your Cell phone for birds in flight
and sports. How about low light situations cell phone flash is a joke. Overall I still think cell phone is still fantastic.
Those of you professional photographers can deny all you want about cell phone. Most pictures taken today are for social sharing. Pictures in Facebook and Instagram I cant tell the difference.
Thanks for sharing. I don't think I denied anything in the video😀 A phone camera is perfect for social media pictures.
The pictures of my iPhone 16 pro look MORE PLEASING than my expensive system camera! I don't care if it was mad by internal computunal processing. This is cool & also frustrating. Manfucatures of cameras should also be able to deliver the quality of a handy...
Cameras with Android and apps might come. That might be a way to get the advantages of both.
I used to think the same, but our family went on a holiday and the night photos were disastrous.
After that i bought a proper camera and lens and took it whenever we had an outing. The photos are amazing.
@ in my comparison it is the opposit! (iPhone 16 pro…)
@@stehlealexander did you buy a good lens? What camera and lens did you use? Mine just zve10 with 11mm 1.8 lens, not very impressive but it's more than enough for low light photos.
My wife's 14 and I don't think there's that much difference in night time photography between 14 and 16, It's very grainy.
@ i have a lot of good lenses on my m43 system. iPhone 16pro make’s probably a lot of hdr pictures. But it look very good to my eyes. This is something that camera manufacturers don’t do. You will be surprised after the iPhone update. By the way: I spent a lot of money in camera equipment - so this words don’t come easy
I wonder how many people watching this understand the Kwanon logo 😅
You are probably the first😀
Phone vs camera is a weird debate, they're two completely different things, I think anyone who tries to debate this haven't actually used real camera systems themselves
There's no substitute for a proper modern dedicated camera. Even the S24 Ultra, which I tested, can't match its performance in low-light conditions. Despite all its AI capabilities, it fails miserably to render darker areas effectively. Moreover, even a dedicated camera can benefit from AI noise reduction, giving it an even greater edge over smartphones. So, I can confidently say that smartphones aren't there yet, at least not for the foreseeable future.
Nature, especially leaves and grass, look bad if they were photographed with a mobile phone. Mobile phone cameras simply cannot take a nice photo in nature. For street photography (cars, buildings, restaurants) it is perfectly fine. Also, processing photos from a mobile phone in Lightroom makes no sense, the quality always deteriorates rather than improves.
I'm a mechanical engineer so I prefer shooting film only. Nikon F2, plain prism DE-1.
But it’s not FF😊. I actually use my phone a lot…usually because I have it with me at the time. Often looks good…my camera tends to be more for large zoom needs or when I need to crop. More your image quality point. Of course with AI, we may need a real photo less and less. Different tools for different needs. For me I don’t really enjoy using my phone nearly as much as my camera.
You really got an eye for motives and both can capture. But how often do you change your phone vs your camera? Money talks as well. And compression kills btw.
Thanks. I had my previous phone for five years and the current one is almost two years old. I've had many more cameras than phones during that almost seven years.
Most my street photos are taken high above the crowd, or low near the ground. Hard to do with a phone.
Blasphemy with your opening line Matti! We all know a dedicated camera will always be better.
80% of phone images just look horrible. However every now and then I'll take an image and after processing will be impressed with how it looks and it will be close to a camera image 'look'. 95% of my images are Black and White which helps but every now and then the camera on the phone does come up trumps!
I voted plus! But the phone is in many ways better.Stright to FB! I cannot see the screen in strong sunlight! Camera has viewfinder,,On trip to South Africa M'Lady only used phone and had 2 large albums printed!
For zoom in 100% view, even a old Canon 1" sensor G7X still better than my iPhone 15 Pro MAX main camera take with RAW file, iPhone only win on HDR compu Photos.
Check out the Fjordan line for iPhones. A new Leica company having a go at replicating a true ‘camera’ experience on an iPhone, especially if you adapt the Moment lens line to the case, great for video. Will it replace my ‘real’ Leica camera gear? Nope, but It adds another photographic option that is actually always with me.
To be clear, I use Lightroom, Snapseed, Leica Lux and PS Express on my iPhone to edit all my mobile photos and never make prints taken with my iPhone larger than 5x7. I do all my video via iPhone. Otherwise I’m a FF Sony and Leica shooter. I enjoy them all.
Bonjour. Mon smartphone ne me sert faire du repérage en attendant de revenir faire des photos avec mon Olympus. Merci pour cette réflection !!!
I just don't get it, though I have a nice Samsung smartphone which is very good on paper. I am too old probably.
Also, you cannot load a film into a smartphone 🎞️😊
I don't think you can load film into any digital camera, smartphone or not.
But in your insightful video that I totally loved, Matti, you have not mentioned once the word “digital”. You were comparing “phone camera” to “dedicated camera” or “real camera” all along. Everything you said also applies to analog cameras, including “in-camera”post processing. Like double exposure for example (ok I am pushing too far with this one 🤣). I would even argue that with my “dedicated cameras” I do not even need a battery 😊 Thank you Matti for inspiring us! ❤📷
I think phones have a real advantage you didn’t say. My composition on my phone ( S24 ULTRA ) is always better than my A7RV. Why, size of screen. How can someone see a large screen image of what they are about to take and get it wrong. Sure the Sony A7RV has the best flip screen and fantastic view finder but both are nothing like my 7” screen phone’s oled panel. I am fed up with Sony’s rubbish poor quality small screens. I want to see a great photo the second after I take it.
If you can't tell the difference between a cell phone and a camera, you should reconsider your profession.
like before play
Vivo X200 rising up
I really don't like my phone camera. Poor quality and over processed results. Each to their own
Well, almost a click bate subject. Strong and different opinions guaranteed. My take? It all depends on what you are doing with your images. Yes, the best phone cameras produce nice images in most circumstances when watched at small phone screens, or printed in small to medium sizes. That is good enough for most people. But for people that use their images for large prints or in video productions that are watched on large TV's (42 inch and up) phone images are often not that nice to watch. All modern phones use a lot of image manipulations (with or without AI). And these images can look very artificial, especially when watched on large screens/prints. I use my Pixel phones for easy shooting/non demanding images and sending images around. For my more demanding work I use dedicated cameras. Not only for better image quality, but also because a real camera is much easier to handle when you don't want all-auto photography and you want to use specific settings to get the image the way you want it to look, not how the phonemaker wants it to look. With some phones you can change settings as well, but it is a pain to make these settings on a small screen. Just my two cents.
Thanks for sharing. A clickbait or not, but I get this comment so often that I decided to cover it once again.