new rotary engine semi functional prototype
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- Опубликовано: 16 фев 2014
- engine, new engine, new technology, energy saving, this is a video of a new rotary engine the engine shows that all of the mechanisms work but doesn't start because of manufacturing problem
I agree with David. You guys have solved the basic design problem, now all you need is superior machining. A very clean, efficient concept. Good luck.
There are quite a lot of design problems in this prototype, but I very much like the idea. And the fact that you put this together yourself with minimal tools. I'm looking forward to the next iteration of your engine. Good luck!
hi i have lost the access to the original account ...
but yes you are right there are lots of problems ... now i have recently purchased some machinery and am working on a new project i will post it on this account one I'm done ...
@@nekitsurguy2445 subbed
I REALLY LIKE THIS ENGINE IDEA!!! not the strongest or most reliable (seals will wear) but wery simple and easy to maintain, but in your current prototype, I find 5 problem... please don't give up with this engine yet.
1: as you already told, the ports. I think they are too small and act as air pump slowing the rotor. Also I prefer 180 Dec angle between them because it will releaf stress from bearing.
2: the fuel get mixed the air too early and might "wet" the plug when rotor finally shoves heterogenetic mixture in to combustion chamber. I think this is the 2nd bigest problem.(I would consider fuel injection... like in old tractors)
3: 2 spring just isn't enough... as you told... it backfires back in to the carburator, wich might also explains unreliable ignition. (3 phase rotor would be nice, 4 might not have enough air to fill chamber completely)
4: the air is escaping around rotor seals results as drop in presure. (you noticed exhaust coming from bearings)
5: there is no wheel. Please, Install it. It will make a LOT easier to test prototype with heavy flywheel. After all, that is a prototype... a LOT of friction. You need to store power somewhere to make it to be able to get next cycle on it's own.(rotor is not going to be enough)
just some suggestions. Keep it up, it is not far away from working.
p.s. I didn't read other comments. So... i might have told same ideas that others have already have told you.
With engineering passion
- engineer student from Finland :D
i ve lost the access to the original account .. thank you for the input.. at the time ive put that engine on hold i felt like i needed a bit of better machinery in order to produce one with a slightly better tolerances ...
now to your concerns ...
things that ive figured out over these few years ...
1. the ports ... the intake and exhaust ports are a bit small ... how ever one of the issues is the port from the combustion chamber to the working chamber . that port is too big... the idea is to make it work like a potato cannon except pushing the plate around instead of the potato...
2 the fuel mixture ...
i have realized that that was one of the main issues as far as having it fire reliably .... i have tested it on both the oxy/acetylene mixture and propane which sadly bot of them did not provide enough fuel flow to keep up with the intake .... now what worked better is when took a blow torch and heated the whole engine assembly up ... I've got a quite a bit more reliable firing but ... still no go as far as it actually running ...
3... the springs ... as far as the seals on the hills the little brass ones ... they do a decent job of sealing and separating the chambers ... now one of the bigger issues is that the combusted gas goes through the side of the rotor where ideally the rotor face and the side plate should be in a very close tolerance i have a bit of a wobble ... which allow a 0.05- 0.4 mm gap between the side and the rotor ... now if you multiply that by the half of a circumference ... its a big gap ..so pressurized gas blows some of the fuel mixture out and messes with the air to fuel ratio which again prevented it from firing reliably ...
well either way thank you for your input you gave me some more things to think about ...
Just love the inventiveness of people, to make this up in your garage is fabulous, never give up.. well done.!
That should encourage you start chasing your own dream.
Target: the day my wife declared that our basement was the biggest junkyard in the whole world !!!
You guys did a great job, better than most! Go for it, get it kicking out some RPM and screaming. You started it and got a lot done, HELL I'm still waiting to start most of my projects.
Great job you guys, great execution of a prototype to prove an idea with obviously limited tool availability.
Awesome, thanks for sharing!
Please keep the project going
Your engine prototype is awesome.
hi i have lost the access to the original account
but thank you for your support i am still working on it ...
The seals will probably be your greatest challenge, as it was for the Wankel engineers. That's very nice work on your prototype, given the tools you have to work with. I can't wait to see this engine run after you have improved it! Thanks for sharing!
Keep up the good work. All great ideas start somewhere and take development. I commend your effort.
But not everything that starts is good ...
did you develop a rotary engine? no? then fuckoff wally.
Keep it up guys. You will never get anywhere without trying. A cheap solution for the crank seals would be Teflon washers until you can progress further with intricate machining and seal designs. Lawn mower ignition coil and trigger will provide better spark. You are almost there.... Hang on till the end
Good idea. But it think the combustion chamber is too large. It doesn't allow for enough compression at the time of ignition to create the power necessary to drive the motor. Keep trying!
wonder if wasted spark ignition would help ?.... also they need proper gaskets to keep the compression better. great idea though
Ateşlemeden sonra çıkış yanlış
hi i have lost the access to the original account ...
now one of the main attractive features of this design is the fact that there is no compression .. this engine ideally should work like a potato cannon except instead of launching a potato it would push on the and spin the rotor ... yes the rpm will never bee high. and yes there is never going to be a lot of torque .... however the efficiency should be pretty high ...
Great job!!
I hope you make one that is fully functional!
Why is this downvoted? Dude tried to make an engine. That’s pretty cool even if it has flaws. I guarantee I cannot put up good drywall but I sure might film it and be proud!
This looks sick and amazing bro keep on :)!
Good idea guys.
Keep improving it!
I had this idea for 25 years but never built one.
I am glad you did.
My version is slightly different dough.
My version has no compression stroke, rather I use an combination of a Screw type super-charger and a turbo to provide two stage external compression to the Expander portion which you have built.
The opening slope has to be more gradual than what you have.
You must be loosing pressure there.
And ditch the combustion chamber.
You can put the spark-plug into the rotary housing, right after the high pressure charging/intake port.
But make the housing the negative electrode and the center + electrode has to be flush with the housing.
Let me know if you have any questions I am glad to help to develop this thing.
Good luck. :0)
Good Job too.
Great job, I love this idea!
good luck
Good idea but there are a few things that would help .
1 : You need to taper the first 1/3 of the leading edge on those veins to push those seals smoother you have plenty of material and only about 6-8 millimeters in from the edge should be enough to push those seals in smoother .
2 : By eliminating that external expansion chamber ( there's already one built in to the housing ) you should almost if not more double the horsepower .
3 : Back to those veins I see you have 2 but 1 is welded into place if you take that weld off add a third that would give you less rotation between ignition points .
4 : drill some holes through/shave down some that barrel you don't need all that mass .
Interesting concept. It doesn't look like it would very efficient due to what appears to be a low compression ratio but you might be on to something. Have you thought about adding another bar to the opposite side of the rotor or maybe changing the dimensions of the hills (especially the angel of the downhill side, looks a little steep) and/or the dimensions of the compression bar (maybe round the outer most edges to make a smoother contact surface?).
God job guys, that probably took alot of effort. It isnt easy getting a result like that With basic Tools and materials.
I bet you had fun making and tinkering With it. This is also a great way to learn and explore alternative engine concepts. Keep it up guys - hope you will make more videos like this.Greetings from Norway :)
i would like to remind you guys that this prototype is working the way it is only because of very poor execution of the parts .... the prototype is made on a 300$ lathe and bench sender.
nikita surgay What materials did you use to make it?
nikita surgay No need to remind us - anyone with even the smallest bit of mechanical knowledge had an "Oh wow" moment when you showed us how it worked, and we know the problems lay in imprecise engineering. This engine is going to be absolutely incredible, seems MUCH simpler and easier to service than a Wankel. I can't wait to see the next incarnation of it!
David Wisniewski Yes i agree. if this is a success we got a new "Nikita rotory rotor engine" lol. Good Luck and i hope to see your success in the news reports in the future (Im serious about everything i said. good luck :D )
i like it . but there is a lot to think about. concerning the inability of the springs to have a smoth syncronic response at all fq. you will need to maby divert exhaust to drive the widget piston instead of a spring , or in conjuction with a spring. or a spring and a cam rod. or a moving weight as part of widget piston.
Michael Shultz now that i think od it they could also try fuel injection. Lol
Fantastic, and inspirational too!
Suggestion: how about a fly wheel to help keep the momentum going.
Mighty oak trees grow from small acorns.
the problem of your engine is the combustion chamber. when you push the misture in the combustion chamber it is exeting right away for the expeansion chaber, thats why you dont have an "explosion", because the mixture is not compressed.
grettings from portugal!
Thats exactly right... for there to be compression they would need to add valves to close the expansion until the combustion is ready.
I'm impressed with your concept. Looks like your team has put alot of work into this. Will both gates on the rotor be employed, eventually? I cant wait to see it in an operational demonstation. Great job great thinking! Keep building and inventing.
Hello there. I like your engine, it seems more effective with the explosion power than the X engine, as the direction of the expansive wave pushes straight away to the moving piece of the "core". Haven´t you thought of a cam or an eccentric for the bronz piece that now is pushed against the walls of the case by springs? If the cam is carefully made so the piece never pushes against the case, but only gets close enough so the oil layer seals the combustion chamber... you could probably save a lot of wear as those springs are basically pushing the piece to grind the case.
i think you have done great work i look forward to the finished engine
WOW !!! Hope you guys won't give up on it, and continue with research & development- best of luck
Keep building new designs... it’s brilliant.
Interesting concept. Would like to see it running some day.
I would have loved to see that second bar springloaded as well!
FANTASTIC
WELL DONE
THANK YOU
SUPERB
That's an interesting design. Good job
will be following you guys got the idea love to see you finish it and make it an optional engine for cars an motorcycle ..buut great start.
Buen trabajo! Sigue en ese camino!
That vane is going to slam into the rise of the 'hill' at some 80 fps and the thing isn't going to run longer than a minute. That's not counting the centrifugal force holding it against the wall of the chamber. Lubrication is going to be a nightmare.
+tubeist- dan I concur. I was thinking that designs going forward are going to have to escape from the traditional metal-on-metal contact that has cost so much efficiency till now. External combustion appears to be the best solution.
Nom
Dan - Hah ! 2 years later and I just posted almost the same comment. What if the length of vane travel was reduced to 2mm instead of the current 10 mm travel design? The combustion chamber depth would need to be tiny. Although the length of the chamber may make up for that.
Please keep going with this,I really like this idea
THIS IS FANTASTIC !
With design improvements and a team, it could be far more powerful than the piston engine.
A very nice improvement of the rotary ingine.
Working yet or not, with what you had to make it so far is great work and skill. I for one would be very interested to see you get there in the end. Keep going, I'm sure you will get it working well.
Any updates on this? My brother had an extremely similar idea more than 15 years ago. His design is a bit different though, but the principle behind it is almost the same. He didn't pursue it though, I was amazed by how similar this is to his and sent thr video to him.
Interesting - I think your spring loaded sealing bar needs a more gradual opening after it passes over the the sealing bar near the combustion chamber
Ingenious! Your first running problem is with the valve. You should try and mechanically activate it. It still needs some redesigning but your going the right way. I cant wait until you get it running right. I want to buy one.
Genius--I hope you guys are successful.
I looked into this design about 20 years ago after taking apart a rotary refrigeration compressor & getting inspiration. When I delved deeper I found that there was a guy from Rochester NY back in the 30s that built one & put it in a motorcycle & rode around on it for a while. He concluded that the parts wore out too quickly & took it no further. However, that's not to say it couldn't be further developed today, what with modern materials. Good luck :-)
sensacional essa ideia excelente motor funcional rotação livre e continua, já pensei nessa mas vejo que já está em andamento parabéns.
The rotary needs a comeback.. so much potential from a small, lightweight powerplant
Great work... definatly a unique design. I think it should work. You can hear that it IS firing... and you can see the way the drill is moving that there is some power being made. Maybe try a heavier flywheel... on the opposite side of the drill, most engines wont run without some mass to get them around to the next "stroke" Great job guys. Keep up the good work.
Nice work! Keep it up. Works great for a 1st phase prototype. Make the appropriate changes and continue to make newer prototypes to learn more from trial and error.
Interesting concept - keep at it guys. As mentioned earlier it looks like the combustion chamber design is more an issue than overall leakage. The gases will need to be more compressed before any useful work can be made of the ignited mixture. Maybe smaller exit holes - have a look at indirect diesels where they have a separate combustion chamber which then feeds the cylinder - the holes can be quite small. I think Honda Civics used a similar design in their lean burn petrol engines in the eighties.
Excellent engine- i will work very well with accurate machining of parts!
Молодцы! Вот бы Вашу активность людям в должностях!!!! Не бросайте свое дело. Решение компрессии в вашем случае неудачно, да Вы и сами это поняли. Ищите способ компрессии.
Attaching flywheels might help those ignition kicks send the rotor far enough to reach the full 360° to take another kick thus giving it repetitive rotation perhaps.
keep innovating, this is a new take on a classic concept of rotary engines.
4:30 "as soon as it passes the exhaust portion", the rotor seal snags on the stator seal and locks up, causing it to grenade.
Excellent effort!
Very good effort, tho the seals/rotor will self destruct rather quickly with such steep ramps if it every did run, there is also a huge potential for rather large drop in pressure as rotor reaches the combustion chamber making it less likely to exhaust and pull in new charge on intake. But I have to say it is a very cool idea and you guys did a great job with minimum tooling. Keep up the good work and take everything you've learned from this prototype and include it into the next build.
I came up with this same design more than 20 years ago and found it to be unsound for any real power. But you are doing a good job on your execution. At least it works. the problem is you will have to come up with better ways of sealing. It will end up having to be close to a wankel engine and thus will be prone to the same problems.
Great effort...keep going ;-)
It looks quite efficient, but I see the issue of very low displacement compared to the amount of metal. It's going to have a good bit of inertia to overcome both in starting and in stopping. I also foresee issues with those seals wearing out even more quickly than the apex seals on a Wankel rotary, and even those erode problematically quickly.you're going to need incredibly strong springs for this to run at any speed. It's definitely an interesting concept and I wish you the best of luck.
Need to use pneumatic actuator?
Actually if it gets running the centrifugal force will help hold the seals in contact with the chamber. I agree wear will be a major factor and should have a 2 cycle mix for fuel maybe a 40:1 fuel/oil mix.
Nice try fellows! I have to admire your perseverance, despite not being equipped to fully realize your concept. A fun video. Thank you
I think you've got something there, and if it were retooled so that everything worked cohesively, I think it would be pretty awesome.
Great job !
alot of work good job...Don't stop...
I will love to work with this project so I will like to be kept up to date. Thanks
It'l wear out quickly with the apex seal you have...but still cool design!
Great job !!
somebody give this man a job, if it pops, blows smoke, then it will run. love the idea.
Stay with development. It's a great idea. It has a future!
Great work, always good to see people coming up with new ideas. However I see one drawback with this motor and that is the large inertia of the rotor seals and large displacement they need to move in a short space of time.. This will prevent the seal from tracking on the housing limiting the motor to very low rpms.
I suspect that one issue is that the air charge is based upon suction which is a very outdated idea. In order to make power one really needs to have an air mass heading toward the intake port with enough momentum to charge the combustion area with pressures above atmospheric levels. If we went back prior to 1900 engines often had suction valves in which the poppet valve was actually sucked open by the vacuum formed when the exhaust charge left the cylinder at high speed. That is why you see antique engines that were massive that produced only a tiny amount of power and required such heavy and large diameter flywheels. If this design were created with several chambers such that one intake port was always open then a supercharger could feed in a serious air supply and the engine might make good power. But then the real battle would be emissions issues due to the essentially two-stroke nature of the engine.
Interesting idea. I also thought of spring-loaded seals when designing my own rotary engine, but the problem is those spring-loaded seals cannot maintain a proper seal when the engine is spinning at thousands of RPM. The inertia of the seals is too high and they start floating. Also, there is a big problem with lubricating the seals, because rotary engines can't scavenge oil for reuse, so rotary engines inevitably burn oil. That makes rotary engines impractical for any usage where clean exhaust is a concern.
Newsflash:
This is an attempt of a "vane" rotary engine.
Nothing new.
Quite old.
Thank you for playing.
Please try again.
Hows the progress coming on your motor Nikita? Brilliant idea
very good work done. have you got it working. I can see that the combustion chamber would expand the compressed air-fuel mixture., such that the pressure probably goes below 8 bar. below this pressure, the conventional spark plug gap of 0.8 mm. at 2 KV would not ignite the fuel-air mixture. one solution is to open up the spark plug gaps to 1.6 mm. and the spark voltage to 10 KV. also a richer mixture. Else, minimize the volume of the combustion chamber. I have built a similar vane type engine, and found that the vanes get the greater centrifugal energy the faster it runs, and the resulting pressure of the vanes against the walls creates its own braking effect. I would be lucky to see the rotation
beyond 1000 rpm. At this rpm, the pressure built up is low due to leakages. Thus the self cancellation effect. Try fitting the Mazda
Wankel ceramic seals on the tips of your vanes.
Wow.. why didnt anyone tell me this before..
Keep at it! :Love to see it running and revving under its own power. Apply for a grant or get a sponsor to get a machine shop to build the parts. Be careful what agreement you sign, however, use a lawyer so you retain all rights to every part and whole engine itself.
I love to troubleshoot problems and you should connect a compression test gauge so can see how much Actual compression pressure it achieves?You need at least 5-6-7 Lbs and that spring loaded seal “plate” might give you problems during extreme Heat!Spring steel with the low carbon don’t really do well but obviously you are an intelligent person bilingual in English&Russian is pretty cool.Holiday in the US when you get more fluid speech and come here to test your self!Good Luck and Never give up on development of this idea.”Keep on Keepin on,”
It's trying! Keep on doodling with it!
Great job proof of concept is there👍
Good idea but you have allot of space that is unused like you could move the exhaust over more away from the intake which would prevent the intake air from being over heated and also prevent fuel lines from melting
have you noticed huge steps between chambers,losing pressure at hi rate of speed.Great idea-good luck.
Так это же типичный ванкель, только в вашем варианте еще добавлены места, где будут чудовищные ударные нагрузки, которые съедят ваши уплотнения на роторе за пару минут. Ну, если вы все же сможете его заставить проработать эти пару минут. -В ванкеле не зря ведь камера имеет плавную эллиптическую форму (и все равно проблемы с уплотнениями).
Это не ванкель.
An here i am thinking im the best builder in the world smmhhh, youtube has made me realise my place, i always thought i was smarter than all the myth buster guys cuz allot of things theyve done and tested i have done my entire life since i was 4, now after watchimg youtube videos you start to see all this talent that was undiscovered before cuz only famouse people got to show off there skills to masses of people. Im so glad youtube allows us to see people like this who have drive, and are facinated with engineering.
Keep up the good work, don't get discouraged. It looks like a promising design , the only issue I see is the sealing ,especially the sides of the rotor.
it is awesome friend good luck in your project
arduino argentina
Remember before mazda there were companys that waisted a lot of money trying to develop the rotary engine, even Mazdas latest version after 60 or 70 years of trying is much less efficient than a modern 4 cyl. But still you get an A+ for effort👍😉
It actually would fire considering the part tolerances, at appears that is actually not the issue. The problem is when you have the fuel/air mixture forced into that combustion chamber, the gasses are simply exiting on the other side of that seal plate, before it has a chance to get on the other side of the combustion chamber exit holes and thus seal for expanding gasses. Even with both seal plates installed, you still have a majority of the fuel/air mixture exiting out of the engine, on the aft side of the seal plate.You would have to install some kind of valve or reed valve activated by the rotation of the rotor to only allow the gasses to exit the combustion chamber when it is necessary. Hope this helps! Very impressive though
i love the idea though a lot of work is required i believe you will work on them like the valves exhaust stuck in tha combustion and trippin in to tha carb but good wrk
Nice Job Man Go Ahead
Nikita - You could use a screen and some sand or iron blocks to quickly vary the combustion chamber size. You might want to try some natural gas instead of gasoline; also try some starter fluid but be very careful with starter fluid. The theory seems correct. Wish I could provide you with a verbal articulation for your video. Also a flywheel would allow you to advance the ignition. You show two vane type seals; a large main seal that rotates with the rotor and a small seal that stays with the stater. At high rpm the centrifugal force on the large seals will be difficult to manage. Need to figure out how to lessen that weight and/or the length of the seal to travel. The expansion of the seal due to heat is also gong to be a critical factor. It might seize. Be nice if the main seal could be a roller bearing somehow and it only moved 0.125" or 2mm .
Nice work even if it does not start ! Cheers from Brussels ! Have you ever think to make a smaller combustion chamber (the cover with the spark plug screwed)? Yours seem way too big for a good compression... At this point of your work it should not be difficult to try to make a smaller combustion chamber. And you need intake valve as well to keep the pressure insine the combustion chamber. But I repeat : great work ! none motor on this earth had start on the first time, so keep it close to your mind dude I really think you are pretty close of womething very good. You have to calculate your compression ratio to do it nice. Regards.
Fernando
You need to compress the air and the explosion to push the wheel, maybe have two wheels united, one compresses and the other absorbs the explosion from the firing chamber to make the wheels spin.
This is nice thinking, but you lack a means to seal the outlet side of the combustion chamber, so the gases do not actually compress, they just flow into the expansion side. This is why it will not start. In a typical piston engine, the air-fuel mixture will not ignite from a spark if the compression is too low. You achieve essentially zero compression. But don't give up.
Good luck guys. Is the combustion chamber too big compared with intake volume? Also needs a way of mechanical controlling the seal bar as that will get smashed at higher rpm. Good luck
Where did you get such a large vane motor? Keep up the work btw!
Really good design man. ... give it some more symmetry by having 2x combustion chambers opposite to each other for thermal expansion symmetry... then 2 x exhaust obviously ...basically remove exhaust port cam... add fuel injectors.. throw carburetor ..attach crank gear for super charging the intake air mixture.. machine fancy end plates for new air intake paths and other things.. add roller type bearings.. more bearings to surround a fly wheel... etc etc ... I honestly think this thing could rock with enough tinkering.40-50 thousand rpm..
During the compression phase gas travels through the combustion chamber straight through into the expansion chamber you need to have a valve there and it will work much better (not great but better)
very nice thing ,. but there is tree problems .
1- i dont think that the air is going to well comperes in chamber , i think its a bit big .
2- the yellow thing which is made for sealing that you installed in side the rotary thing is a big big and it can break easy because of the shape and the size that thing is expanded out . it would be better if you made that thing looks like the cam shape or in side the cylender its could be smother
3 the problem is my English sorry for my bad English :)
you have to have a way of blocking the two power stroke holes in the combustion chamber aswell so compression is not lost
Amazing what people can come up with... with a little know how!
I dont care its working or not. Im just wanna say. Maan you are genius