Van's RV-8 Build. Ep 084. What Laser-Cut Parts Mean to Me
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- Опубликовано: 5 фев 2025
- By now, you're probably aware that builders of my vintage are in the throes of a laser-cut part debacle. In this video, I discuss the issue as I understand it today, and how it affects me.
---Links---
Van's Aircraft's most recent update: www.vansaircra...
Ryan Ensmiger's take: • Laser cut parts in the...
Autsint Manke's perspective: • Laser Cut Parts - Qual...
Ryan Moss's approach: • Creating a Cockpit | E...
Vans Airforce thread: vansairforce.n...
This video was recorded on 7/31/2023.
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Hi Chris, great videos! Our EAA club will really appreciate having a new resource, best wishes to you
Thanks Dave! Hope you’re well.
Thank you for the update.
You bet. I'll have an update to the update by the end of the week.
Well said. Sorry to hear some of your completed parts may be affected. Hoping those tests come back with good news!
Fingers-crossed!
I just went through my rv-8 Kit I recorded a similar video as this … thank youfor making this. It shows I am helping
Thanks, Vanzell. It's been a while since you've put up any videos. I'm looking forward to seeing what you put up next.
I was on my scuba trip when I got that damn email right after American informed me that our flights home were canceled. LOL I can't tell you how much fun my brain thinks this is. I haven't been able to work on mine for two months, BUT I know you and I have wing kits from the same time frame. Soooo, after I get caught up with some normal life bullcrap, I plan on tackling this nonsense. I'm pretty sure my empennage was made pre-laser debacle. I did get to go to Oshkosh this year for two days! Fun stuff. Thanks for the video.
The wing kit isn’t that badly affected. Especially if you haven’t started it yet. I’d guess you’re probably in a pretty good spot with all of this… Jealous of your Oshkosh trip. I was slated to make my first AirVenture, but got called away for work in the 11th hour.
Vans aircraft recently released a video explaining they are having cash flow problems and are seeking outside help to sort it out. I was shocked at this news. Van’s is the preeminent aircraft kit company and are the bellwether of the industry. I truly hope they get it sorted out. Incidentally back in the day I was days away from sending in a $30k check to Glasair for a Glastar kit when they filed for bankruptcy…..friends of mine were mid build and were missing parts of their kits, it was a night mare. Moral to the story, buy EVERYTHING up front, especially the parts that cannot be sourced elsewhere.
They'll get it sorted out. The video they published was a cursory overview. They also published a more detailed report, and there have been some good article from reputable sources breaking it all down. No doubt, there will be some disruption during the process. And, that will affect many people much more than it affects me. I have enough work to keep my hands busy in the interim, and (due to the months-long strike) I don't have any spare cash causing me to be anxious about moving on to the fuselage etc.
Thanks for a thoughtful video. I’m in the same boat.
Thanks. It’s tough to be patient, but there’s plenty of other work to be done in the meantime.
I hope your inspections go well. I did just order my empennage and feel for everyone sorting though all this now.
Congrats! That's exciting news! And, you're timing is accidentally perfect. You definitely won't be receiving any laser-cut parts. :)
Cracking is metal fatigue. Going back and redoing will make the build very long and frustrating. Nightmares!!!
Frustrating, yes. But, in the grand scheme of things, it won't really push my completion date any further into the future. My industry has been on strike for seven months. It will probably take a year or more for me to financially recover from this time off of work and start ordering more airplane parts.
I'm in the same boat. Tanks are done on my RV-10. I will not tear my rear baffles off. If they say replace I'm building new tanks.
Yeah. I really don’t think the rear baffles are an actual concern since they’re not dimpled anymore. But, because they used to be dimpled, I suppose they have to label them as a possible _replace_ part in case someone decided to go old school with their build.
Hey I am just a old country farm boy but I have a question. Why couldn’t all the holes be drilled to one size larger and use a size up rivet. Would that work?? Or do I just need to keep farming?
Great question. And, the answer might be a little different for builders of different models. My kit (the RV-8) requires that all of the holes be final-size drilled... They're only a few thousandths undersized. But, I found that simply reaming the holes eliminated any irregularities that I found. Builders of the -14, for example, receive their kits already final-sized. So, there isn't an opportunity for reaming the holes to clean up any imperfections. As far as I can tell, all of my imperfect parts have been serviceable, but I have seen parts from other builders that had grossly malformed holes that would require actual upsizing (ie. #40 to #30) to clean up. Doing so (especially on a large scale) introduces another potential problem: edge distance. In many cases, the rivet holes are so close together that upsizing two adjacent holes would cause them to be too close to each other. Or, if not violating edge distance now, it can be a problem in the future if a repair needs to be made that would require drilling out some rivets... the ability to upsize any holes damaged in the process would be taken away. From what I understand, rivet rows are often spaced to allow just enough room to upsize a hole if necessary, but certainly not upsizing twice.
In short, going up a size is a good solution for one-off applications, but not entire structures (in my opinion).
@@thathippiepilot Thanks for the quick reply. I can see on r it’s too close to each other or to the edges it would probably not work. My dads advise was always if it doesn’t work get a bigger hammer. (Lol). So sorry for such a big investment for you and others to hear so devastating news. Do you think Vans will be able to make things right.?
I’m confident they’ll pull through. It will take some time to get it all sorted out, but my build was going to be a multi-year endeavor regardless.
That sucks! Great build series. I just can't see the FAA/DAR rep signing off on an inspection knowing what they know now and insurance company's giving anyone in-flight coverage for a kit built with defective parts. Unfortunately, these parts will need to be replaced. Also, sending you new parts is simple, rebuilding is not! I have no idea how they're going to fix the Quickbuild kits.
I get what you're saying. What's actually defective about these parts needs to be kept in mind. At the moment, it's a matter of occasional poorly cut holes that could lead to cracked dimples upon riveting. On kits for which these holes are final-size, that's an obvious defect. On kits that require final-size drilling, it's possible that many (if not all) of the defects are eliminated... I'll standby and wait for Van's and their 3rd party unaffiliated testers to come back with their determinations. Van's will be creating a portal, separate from the Van's store, for builders to order replacement parts. I have compiled a list of what I'm likely to need. My hope is that, if large assemblies do need to be deconstructed, there will be some consideration of the fact that it's unlikely that amateur builders are going to be able to remove a spar, for example, without damaging attached parts in the process... We'll see!
I fly certified and have zero building experience so go gentle when you answer this! Haha. If a builder was just starting the process could you go up a size in rivet and eliminate(drill out) the effected area or would that cause other structural issues.
@@M27-f4f that’s a great question. The only problem that poses is ensuring that you maintain adequate edge distance with the new, larger hole. If the defect is sufficiently small so that going from 3/32” to 1/8” would clean it up, you’d probably be fine. Only my opinion, of course. When Van’s and their unaffiliated testers have competed their work-up we’ll know more.
I'm going rebuild my entire RV-8 empennage at this point. I'm not taking any chances.
I'm gonna wait to see how it all shakes out with the testing before I make any firm decisions on the empennage. If I have to rebuild the entire thing, it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world. I'm kind of eager to see what that experience would be like with all of the skills and knowledge I've acquired since those first days.
@@thathippiepilot I would call your insurance and see if they have any thoughts. Mine will not insure me in this RV-8 with any of those suspect parts installed.
@@jvtaylor3 that’s a worthwhile consideration. I’m not with an insurer yet. It’ll be interesting to see what their opinions will be once Van’s has completed testing.
RANS not vans sent me a spa with grooves on it.....rough and no service ...thats what RANS stands for.
Ooof !