Minelab Manticore Discrimination EXPLAINED - Tips
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- Опубликовано: 27 дек 2022
- Mark introduces you to the basic Discrimination Pattern settings and guides you through a setup to hear only certain coins. He also talks a bit about the current issues with iron falsing. Also Mark has the brand new Minelab Equinox 900 so stay tuned for those videos too!!
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Metal Detectors Used by Mark Dayton: Minelab Manticore, Minelab CTX-3030, Minelab Equinox 900, Minelab Equinox 800, Minelab GPX-6000, Minelab GPZ-7000, Minelab Gold Monster 1000, Nokta Makro Legend, XP Deus II.
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Mark Dayton is a professional treasure hunter since 1984 and searches for treasures all up and down the West Coast of the USA. He is a retired Firefighter Paramedic and also spends his time as a busy professional musician. His adventures take him all up and down the West Coast where he looks for all types of treasures. In each adventure he teaches you all of the tips and techniques to be a successful treasure hunter. Join along on all of his adventures right here on RUclips!!
Minelab Manticore - Discrimination and Iron Falsing
Episode 2-34
• Minelab Manticore Disc...
This is proper youtube expert stuff right here.
What type of detectorist spends fours days detecting very little without checking the machine set up "sensitivity" ?
You need to be noise cancelling this machine regularly with a 20 second long press, ground balance and a sensitivity adjustment to make sure you're running it at its peak.
It was a different machine that my story was referring to. It was my Minelab CTX-3030 and yes it happened, I pass this story on to others in hope that they will have the common sense to realize what is wrong without wasting 4 trips. But you make a good point! Thank you for the view and comment!
I'm old school from the 1266X Fisher school of Iffy tones or signals but this is how you learn any machine by digging the iffy signals. I'm learning the Manticore now and it's a beast once you learn its language and how to fine groom it to your areas. Great Video ! Thanks !
I really enjoyed my Fisher 1265x, 1266X and my 1270x back in those days. Remember that dual discrimination switch? But yes, you bring up a good point, the key on any machine is critical listening and learning the tones. Thank you for the view and comment!
You make setting it up and instructions super easy. I appreciate your time.
As always, excellent video. I was really glad that you and Calabash have talked together about the iron falsing. He has said only very good things about you, as it should be! Thanks for the very good video, many will be helped with it.
Thank you Kenny! 🤠
Good story at the end. Thanks for the information. Good stuff.
Thank you as well for the view and kind comments!
Nicely done Mark, that works with many detectors and can then be saved for later opportunities. Cheers
Thank you for the view and comment!! 🤠
Exceptional content, thank you so much for sharing your vast knowledge!! 💯
Thank you sincerely for the very kind comment and for the view!
I really enjoyed this video, so thanks. I need to watch more of your videos because you are great at explaining things.
Thank you very much for this comment! It keeps me absolutely motivated to keep bring this type of content!! 🤠
Thanks a lot, great video. You confirmed my decision to stay with the Manticore. I want a deep machine and will dig everything until an upgrade that may fix or mask the nails better. Happy New Year Mark.
Thank you Lee! Yes I am fine digging those good sounding square nails for now at the benifits of more depth and seperation over my trusty CTX-3030. You will really enjotly this machine! Hope you get it soon! Thanks for the view and comment! 🤠
Hello from SW PA. Your channel is great! Keep the videos coming.’
Thank you! Great lesson there. Still waiting on mine to arrive. Keep the good stuff coming please😉🙌🏻🙌🏻
I definitely will keep making videos for you guys thank you for taking the time to view the video, leave a comment and especially for your kind words!
By no means a detecting expert, but your videos are helping me decide if I want to take the plunge into a Manticore. The thing I am really liking about it (at least from videos) is the interface, and I dont have to remember what each menu entry is, it literally tells you on the screen. Plus I really like the visualization of the 2D part of the screen, as it seems to make targets more tangible to me, rather than just a number. Personal preference there, though, I suppose. Thank you for all your vids on the Manticore and everything else!
Excellent Video, keep making them.👍
Thank you for your tuition on the Manticore and information on the falsing still waiting for the Manticore .I do think it will perform well here in the Uk.
Thank you!!... hope you get that machine asap!! 😁
Another great video. Still pretty comprehensive to figuring it out and to apply.
It is a fantastic machine with lots of settings but that user interface is so well designed and pure genius it makes it so easy to get a handle on changing settings quickly. Thank you for watching the video and for your comment!
Interesting findings and a good video!)
Great video, exactly what I wanted to learn about the manticore, just bought one from Rob, it should be here in a couple of days.
We'll get them out soon!! 🤠
Great tutorial. Thanks.
Great videos enjoy watching waiting on my manticore
Thanks Mark for the great video, I sure hope that the manticore will be a great copper culture detector
Thank you too! It will be perfect for your sites!!
These numbers are not too far off of my AT PRO. I look forward to upgrading.
Nice, good to hear you have some comfort from familiarity of your other machine coming to the Manticore. Thank you for your view and comment!
Really like the information
With iron falsing, what you are describing is the audio wave form. The coin sound is an audio wave form that is like a saw tooth or wave peak. An audio wave form on a iron false is an inverted saw tooth or wave. Unfortunately, the belt buckle has a similar response do to its size. So instead of getting an "Overload" (which is when a large item's wave form wraps around the VDI scale and begins to repeat and the detector is programed to recognize that as a large target and gives an overload), we are hearing on the MC the similar sound that an iron false gives. This is not so much as a flaw as it is a "comes with the territory" type problem. Sure you can mitigate this issue, but then you may have crippling flaws in the machines response. Just my take on it
Yes Bill I understand there are trade-offs and let me just start by saying that I don't mind digging square nails more than I usually do on my CTX 3030, while getting the benefits of more depth and separation..... not to mention it's a much lighter machine and more comfortable to swing all day. More bells and whistles. So the observation I am calling a delay is simply that the circuit is delaying the audio signal to my ears after I pass over a target. I would have to see these exact waves forms on a oscilloscope to understand what your saying. Because simply inverting (phase shift) the same wave is not going to cause the delay. It would have to be a completely different wave and regardless of the wave form, the peak of any part of that "inverted sawtooth wave" would be the impulse I am hearing. So when I swing left to right... The object is not being reported right at the moment when the coil has detected the eddy current, instead it is a delayed audio (albeit in milliseconds) and by the time the audio is being reported, the center of the coil is way past the target that was just detected. When I start my swing back from right to left the same thing happens, it does not re-report starting on the outside right, instead it's silent until you have swing past the target being detected and as you pass over to the left of the target its once again reporting late. This makes it so you can't even do the "Minelab wiggle" like you can on a coin (lying flat), etc. So what you are proposing here is that the circuit is giving you the same frequency tone (let's say it's the TDI of 83 in all tones 83/100) but the propagated sound wave of the iron weighted target (we have to keep in mind that square nails have lots of conductive properties besides the ferrous) is causing the circuit to generate a completely different sound wave topology (form) and therefore it's causing that "inverted sawtooth wave" to give a late report to the headphones? Solely based on the alternate inverted sawtooth wave? I so want to understand this. I have been talking to Minelab Engineers about this and they are definitely interested in it and are trying to digest it and understand it. I will definitely try to take a look at the sound waves (tones) on both an oscilloscope and a spectrum analyzer to see if I can understand what you are saying here. In the mean time, like I said, I don't mind digging square nails for now! Sounds like Minelab is currently not interested in adding an overload feature to the MC so we are no longer discussing that. Would be really nice to have though 🤔 Thank you for the view and terrific comment!! 🤠
@@BrassMedic Depending on their filtering, the wave form may be out of phase meaning the tone is delayed but at the level of seconds(nano or milli) just like you are saying. If you can hear that delay your hearing is quite good. I am hear the wave form inverted sounding quite different than a good target. Could be both are going on.
@@billem3085 I am going to check this out on an oscilloscope and spectrum analyzer to see it in action. I'll let you know what I see. Thanks for the info, this gives me something new to think about.
I'm sure the nail/can issue will get resolved at some point. I know there were times I took a literal screwdriver and probed the ground and could 'feel' a can. Those I will 100% leave for someone else to dig.
I sure hope so, however, even with these issues it's still an incredible detector! Thank you for the view and comment!
Regarding this delayed "Halo" signal of iron, I am SO looking forward to seeing how the Manticore performs with the 8"x5.5" coil. I've had signals bang loud on the side stems of the DDs, as loud as the center post. And if there are multiple signals doing that, it becomes frustrating to pinpoint. With the skinny 5.5" wide coil I feel like there's going to be a lot tighter, more precision signal processing along with it.
It absolutely will be different with the lower width coil, the phenomenon may still be there it may just be harder to perceive it on a smaller coil. I say that because I use a 6" round on my CTX-3030 99% of the time and I "hear" this delay on iron with the CTX, using that 6" coil. Thank you for your view and comment!
Excellent video, I am waiting for my manticore, not much i could do now anyway, too much snow.
Darn yes I guess I'm lucky to not really have that issue for the most part. But some of my buddies live up in the Foothills and when they invite me we're always up at altitude so I guess we won't be doing any of those hunts anytime soon either. We have a big storm hitting California right now where we will be getting up to 10 ft of fresh snow in the Sierras. But I always have the flat lands that I can get into when weather is nice. I hope you get the machine soon and get a break in the weather as well. Thanks for the view and comment!
@@BrassMedic Thank you for the response, looking forward to your next video whenever it comes.
1982 was the transition year for copper and zinc pennies 👍🏻
Awesome thanks
Thanks good vid
Well done.
I did the same for mine in Australia. Good for cherry picking trashy sites. Thanks fro the video. I wish the Manticore had custom discrim patterns that could be saved and applied to any mode.
I like that idea, yes that would be ideal! I wouldn't think that would be to hard for the engineers to add as a feature either.!! Thanks for the view and comment!
I just got a silver nick yesterday a 1944 P with my Manticore.
Nice score! Congrats! I haven't found one in a few years, used to hunt the parks a lot but now mostly looking for relics or gold. Thank you for your view and comment!
Ahhh the fisher 1270. Super fast machine for its time. I had the Whites Eagle spectrum
I had that one too! 😁 I really like the 12-65X with that dual discrim and then the 12-66 and 12-70 came out. I found a lot of nice silver coins with those machines! 😁
Won't you miss coins that id different when in the soil ? Air test numbers don't always correspond with numbers at depth.
There is also the issue of "averaging" whereas the item you are detecting is being influenced by a co-located target that is causing the VDI to give a number that is not representative of either Target but rather an average number between the two different VDI's. For example if you have one item that has a vdi of 50 and it's right next to an item that has a vdi of 70 you won't see the number 50 or the 70 but rather a average number of for example 60 that seems to bounce back and forth between the two items this is the case with all modern metal detector circuits. Also your comment about air testing not always being accurate as compared to the vdi as you see with items in the soil. This is true because the soil can be highly mineralized and that can average as well. I think it's a good policy to just dig every signal that gives a pretty stable number in both directions that is after you check it on a 90° angle as well if it still sounds good dig it regardless of vdi's. Thank you for your taking the time to watch the video and for leaving a good comment / question!
do you know what the screen size of the maticore in length, width and horizontal in millimeters? As I want to get a custom glass screen protector for it?
Nothing no other detectors sound as good as the minelabs
I'm with you on that . . .! I don't have many complaints about tones on this new machine. Thanks for the view and comment!
Hello my friend, do you sell this detector?
@@yousufsss8970 Hello, no I am not a detector dealer and I use machines from all major brands. Thank yiu for watching the video!
Great video. Regarding the iron falsing issue, does All-Metal mode help at all with that? For instance, is there any chance that the red ferrous line would appear under the VDI with every other indicator (sound, VDI, 2D display) showing non-ferrous? If so, that would be a tell that it’s iron.
In a way it does, but only if you have ferrous audio on at turned up so you can hear it because there is the extra clue that you will get when you hear that Iron grunt in there with the horseshoe open. Also helps if you switch to a single frequency like 15 to check it as well. May help you make a dig - no-dig decision. It's just kind of trade off that if you want separation you're going to have to dig some of these square nails we have to keep in mind that square nails are giving the machine a lot of conductivity besides the ferris and it can confuses the circuit. I for one don't mind digging these square nails as I am fully aware of that trade-off. I also want to make it clear that I haven't had an issue with iron falsing with any iron other than square nails. Especially the really pesky little bits of thin food cans and things like that. This is not been an issue with the Manticore only the square nails. So getting back to your question I think it would be good practice to open the horseshoe and change frequencies for a while on suspicious signals until we can learn the machine and figure out what it's telling us. Thank you for the view and comment! 🤠
How big a gap in vdi numbers between a clad nickel and a pull tab?
But your vdi may skew some and change slightly in different soil and/or if it has a ferrous target near it pulling the signal. Not enough room in your upper/lower ferrous limits. But I do like this
Absolutely, this is always the case when a machine has two or more targets that are not being discriminated. You get averaging on tones and VDI. Best to dig everything. Thank you for the view and comment!!
Great introduction 👍. But to set up the pattern I miss this like on the ctx XChange 2 software 🤔
Yes I really do like that software and had his help me a lot with being able to give my program to people from my CTX I have many countless of thousands of hours and using the CTX 3030 and it made it so easy for me to share my programs. I'm just not sure that others used it enough to justify them still having that feature on future machines. We'll see what happens with the predecessor to the CTX 3030 that they're working on right now. I will say that setting up the Discrimination patterns on the Manticore is very simple though and the block editing is a little bit easier than it was on the CTX. Thank you for the view, comment and kind words!
I like how the zinc & copper Pennie’s ringing up different.
Has there been any word on when it will officially release for purchase?
Suggest you grab some nails and do the same thing you did in this video- swing the nails in different directions and orientations and maybe we can see a telltale sign of the nail vs a similar desirable object... great videos btw! Thank you! Would also like to see some gold nuggets on this bad boy.
Thank you for these ideas. I will be doing some testing like that in the very near future and my number one priority is getting out to do some gold prospecting as soon as the weather cooperates. Thank you for the view, comment and suggestions!
I tried doing this 10 years ago with the CTX. Unfortunately as you know Marc, in the field all bets are off. The other day I was digging Wheaties that rang up in the low 60s and Indians in the upper 40s.
Yes I agree, I was meaning to ask you what model of that sorter size digger is that, that you use? I saw it in a video. Neat little spade... I would like to get the same one! Do you like it? Thanks for the view and comment! 🤠
Meet the team of The Real Treasure Hunters, a Postal Worker, a General Contractor, a former Firefighter and a Repo Man. All from very different backgrounds with one thing in common, these trips into the Swamp in Search of Treasure!
www.youtube.com/@TheRealTreasureHunters26
Hah!! I'll check it out! I am a former Firefighter as well (23 years) so there you have it 🤠
Hi, Thanks, That answers 1 question, yes, I can make up my own pattern.
Q2 , Can I save the pattern I made for future under a different name like the CTX ?? Cheers from Australia
Sir, Can yo u do a video like this on jewelry only ? And is the screen like the ctx 3030 ? I'm new to detecting and want to get the right one. Thanks so much.
The 2D graph on the Manticore is similar to the graph on the CTX-3030 and that they are both X-Y plots representing conductivity on the X-line and Ferrous on the Y-line. However the CTX 3030 used a weighted equation to factor items that were desirable up into what Minelab called the "12 line". With the Manticore this is not being done it is more of an actual representation of conductivity and ferrous and a true 2D graph plot. Thank you for watching the video and for your great question!
Any editing software for this like the ctx
Good video but I have a question. This air test you’re doing can be a bit different than what the coin exposes underground. What I mean is you’re testing these coins, flashing them flat across the coil, but how about if that same coin is, for instance, 7 inches under ground and presents at an angle, it’s not going to showthe same VDI, or am I wrong?
Some coins hit in the iron range could you put these in the iron limits.
I understand you are hearing a sound from one of three : coin, mail,can, but won’t the 2D screen show mail in the ferrous area? Might still have trouble figuring out can and coin, but mail show up on screen as nail(???)
Have you tried gold nugget hunting with the manticore?
That is a cool way to set up a coin program but will what you did with the ferrous limits won't that effect the depth and separation big time?
Yes absolutely so! It's great for picking up quick clad coins in a school, park or fairgrounds but not for seperation in heavy iron. This setting was just to tech you how to use the customization features of the discrimination pattern. Great question and the answer to it will be useful to others. Thanks for the view and comment!
Need a vs. Ctx video :))
ciao, grazie del video, è stato davvero molto utile, vorrei chiederti un consiglio per spiaggia è mare, per oro. grazie, è continua con i tuoi video.
Hello. Would he refuse 3030 in favor of a manticore, or is the manticore still inferior?
Hello!... and this is a great question. I think my opinion may change in time but for now I will be taking my CTX 3030 to all new sites on my first time in. And then after I've had a chance to detect it with the CTX 3030, I will come in behind it with the Manticore. That could change though!! I have no doubt that the Manticore is superior to the CTX in depth and Target separation. It is also superior in comfort and lightweight build. Thank you for your view and comment / question!
I turned my sensitivitie down to 8 checking something out on my explore and forgot to turn it back up. This machine kills on 8. Places i have been going all my life hunting for years are like brand new places running on 8 auto, it is unbelievable. My only guess is the machine is not reaching out to the sides as much picking up all the trash.
In your opinion what do you attribute to the increase in depth capability of this detector? In my opinion it has to be due to an increase in voltage or amplitude at the coil. Not sure just a guess.
That's exactly what I think it is. More power to the coil gets buried targets a little more excited at depth and those eddy currents are just reporting back stronger. Also has a lot to do with the design of the coil and the processor in the way that it handles EMI. The engineers at Minelab swung for the fences on this machine! 🤠
@@BrassMedic
Has to have more to do with the processor. I checked voltage on the GPX 6000 battery and it’s 8.2 fully charged, same as the 5000.
wouldn't it be nice if you could just hit that accept "reject button"?
There is definitely something to say about keeping things simple the discrimination pattern options on this machine are pretty advanced. Thank you for watching the video and for your comment!
Where can you get a Manticore in USA?
Honestly, probably nobody has any sitting on the shelf yet, not even the big dealers. Might still be a while before the rest get shipped. Hoping you guys get them asap!!! Thanks for watching the video!!
Rare to find a silver nickel? I dug 10 of them this year believe it or not. Also 20 v nickels 25 Buffalo nickels 240 wheat pennies 20 Indian head pennies. 80 silver coins. And $176.00 in clad. Had a fabulous year with the XP deus ii.
Using your program what happens if there is a silver dime and a pull tab or foil comingled. I can bet that you'll miss the coin. Try it out and show us.
Subbed
I'm not a die hard hunter like you probably are, but after hundreds of hours of hunting, Iv'e never found one 😢 Maybe this year with the Manticore😀
Thanks for the vid👍, to be honest I sold the D2 because I wasn't happy about the masking problems. Therefore, I hoped the flagship Manticore would do better but it doesn't obviously:-/ so for me the Equinox 900 could be the one to choose, or back to the D2. It seems that none of them are free from problems. Or what's you're uppinion? Gr. M
@kenny D the trick with silver nickels is they are not all going to come up at same vdi. I've had them ring up anywhere from nickel range to zinc penny range.
They didn't have a consistent alloy composition. I've experimented with the ones I have found. If you want a silver nickel go after the nickel tones, pull tabs, ring pulls, and zinc pennies. Then you'll get some. I dug lots of junk this year hoping for gold and silver nickels. I got both!
Totally believe that. But that means you must have dug hundreds on nickels because they only made them for 4 years. The math on that just shows me that you have dug literally hundreds of nickels to get 10 silver nickels. Maybe less if your only digging deep coins. Anyways for most, yes they are pretty rare to dig. V Nickels are way more common than war nickels, just look at the total mintage of all V Nickels compared to the total mintage of all of the Jefferson nickels compared the 4 years of war nickel issues. Thanks for the view and comment!
@Brass Medic yep that is correct. 226 clad nickels. That makes sense to me. But the vdi numbers do vary quite a bit with the war nickels.
I just hope it mitigates EMI way better than my 800
How about coin spill
🤝🤝🤝🤝🤝👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
It's too bad it won't let you save it with a custom name like "My Coins". There should be plenty of memory on the machine that should allow multiple custom programs to be labeled and saved.
You can set up your user soft keys to bring up a saved mode. But I agree, would be nice to allow you to give it a custom name. I will pass this on to the engineers at Minelab! Thank you for your view and comment/suggestion.
I've dug many silver coins with that same delay you speak of with the EQ 800. Just sounds like this machine will be very inefficient to use. If I wanted a super deep dig it all machine I'd just go back to one of the old analogs. Then, with the depth people will be suckered into digging time consuming holes. I don't know. I'm on a list for one but might just hold off until they get this thing figured out.
These are exactly the kind of comments I like to see where with my observations, it might help someone make up their mind one way or another about a purchase. I have complete faith that they will sort the issues out soon in an update but who's willing to wait??? In the mean time, we some other incredible machines to swing. Thank you for the view and comment!!
I said the same thing about my CTX and also I’ve dug coins with the manticore that had a delay
@@jimzilladetecting I saw a couple of your videos as well. What are your thoughts on the Manticore? I'm having my reservations at this point.
@@finders-keepers1518 I love the machine although I am digging way more junk. It’s definitely faster than the CTX and NOX. Honestly it depends on how much you need your $1700. I am addicted to this hobby and have been detecting for 40 years so I always love a new toy. Knowing what I know about the manticore, I think you can do just as good with the NOX 900 which has almost every feature. The 2D screen isn’t that important to me because coins come in all over the screen
@@jimzilladetecting Yeah I know what you mean. I got a nice little collection myself! I am kimd of leaning toward a 900 at this point just because I know the 800 so well.
The video shows the VDI (visual discrimination indication or reference number); however, it does not show the icon?
Summary: Nothing but the VDI on the Manticore?
No icon? No frequency? That really leaves a lot to be desired. Does the Minelab 900 provide the icon, and freq. Just the VDI (Visual discrimination indicator) I always liked the Minelab I thought the machine had 'aggressive response'. Thanks for the video!
From my understanding they have very little iron in them.
Out of all the people who have tutorials videos I respect you the most.. I am also a long time ctx user and can always tell if I have a square nail. This manticore squeal in both directions. Having a lot of trouble with it. Does having the new update on make it also loose depth? And what number do you usually have it on
Thank you so much for the compliment!! The update and the M8 coil are what tranformed the Manticore into the real beast that it could be. And now with the brand new M9 coil it's even better! Seriously from one full-time CTX user to another with untold 1000's of hours on my CTX, I love that machine, I swear I could hear targets in 3D, like I could hear shape, density and depth accurately. With all other detectors I'm in 2D period and it's hard to get used to coming off of those incredible tones with so much information in the CTX. That is because it is an analog circuit compared to these new digital circuits the audio engine in the Manticore is an incredibly powerful music synthesizer that is polyphonic and can play any tone but it's still not analog and that does detract from a lot of the Sonic information that we had on the old CTX platform. The update as you know I was a major part of that update and did all the testing on it and I have the official update video on the Minelab website. It really did improve the machine in so many ways but it's especially noticeable with the M8 or M9 coil. At this point when I walk out the door for relics I'm grabbing my Manticore every time and leaving the CTX behind period the reason for this is it just unmasks so much better in the heavy iron. The CTX was good at cherry picking a site and getting all the good stuff quick but in the heavy iron it was a crap shoot trying to pull things out that were co-located high conductors in with or under square nails. To answer your question about losing depth technically yes it does because they reworked the range of sensitivity. So if you are running a sensitivity of 20 before the update and you're used to that, that 20 is now equivalent to like 16 so I now run my sensitivity at about 24 in the tough, mineralized California soil that I deal with. I took some of the engineers from Australia out to my detecting Fields here in California were they tested the soil and they found it to be some of the harshest they had ever encountered. So in some areas I'm sure you could run your sensitivity higher than 24. Thank you again for watching the video and for your very kind comment!
Железо бывает интересным а целей и так становиться все меньше.